 Today, I have the pleasure of hosting Critical Materials Corner with two experts with us from Nickel28. I have Anthony Molesky and Martin. How are you today? Great. Hey, Tracy, I always really appreciate you having us on, looking forward to chatting today. Yeah. Thank you both. I just want to read one quote here from Dean Bristow's piece on Nickel28, which I think is one of the fastest movers on the market right now. He writes here that, you read this right, EV demand alone could consume about 50% of current global Nickel production within the foreseeable future. Is that correct? Those kind of stats are staggering and overwhelming in terms of consuming not only current supply but future supply that we need to come onto. That's true. Although I don't know if in the current marketplace we had Nickel hit 1060 here at close in London and pressure to move it higher, I don't know if that's what's moving the market right now as much as inflation and just some other general dynamics, but certainly in the midterm, there's no question that the big driver and consumer of incremental demand is coming from not just electric vehicles, but also all aspects of the energy transition. Another example, of course, is battery storage for your house and these types of things. Definitely true. Maybe not what's moving the market at this exact moment. Okay. Well, we're going to turn the floor here for a second to Jack Lifton. Jack, you have been writing for quite some time about how the EV revolution is a myth. We do not have enough materials to achieve the goals that the automotive companies are putting out there. Would you like to comment on Nickel in general for us, please? One of the big things that the analysts make is that they're under counting or ignoring the other uses of Nickel besides batteries for electric vehicles. It's as if those uses don't exist. Now, I don't know if there'll be enough Nickel for the projected demands, projected demands are not real demands. So for example, China has said there'll be at least 25% EV by 2025 production. That I believe China has said they'll be at 50% of EVs by the year 2030. I believe that also. I believe China has enough access to all the materials it needs, including Nickel to carry out those plans. It's the rest of the world I'm concerned about. I think that China's industrial policy, which mandates that has the materials it needs before it starts to produce things, is light years ahead of Western attitudes, which is, well, we'll just aim or we'll get all we need. This completely ignores reality of mineral economics and geology. That's my opinion. I defer to Mr. Maluski, who knows a lot more about Nickel than I do. But I think that we have a problem with almost all of these energy metals. Maybe not with Nickel. You tell me. One thing, Trace, that people don't talk about, I think it's important because I think always in commodity markets, Trace, you've been doing this for 20 years here. Sometimes you can over a hyper situation and the sky is falling and this and that. One thing I will say that's important to talk about is LFP batteries are going to be a major component of the mix. I think some analysts probably incorrectly don't take into account a variety of battery types. What I think you're seeing in China and most likely in the States, but in particular with Tesla, is a realization that everyone doesn't need a battery that goes hundreds of miles. In fact, a lot of really cheap cars that are just going to run around tenally average person doesn't go more than two or three miles from the house every day. That person can have an LFP battery and that's relevant because if you're using a demand model based on this standard Nickel battery, then you're going to show a massive shortfall, you're going to show that immediately. But I think if you have a more graduated model where you have a mix of battery types, then once again, I think that makes the transition more smooth. What I think as a Nickel producer, we don't want to see is I don't want to see Nickel go to $20, something stupid. That happened last cycle. I don't think that that's beneficial to producers. You then start to have conversations around switching to different metals, different technologies. I think a much more graduated supply, excuse me, a much more graduated price increase, gentler going up makes a lot more sense for producers. Oftentimes hysteria around the supply and demand model is put into the market by promoters trying to raise money for projects that need development dollars. I think we all know that story. We've all seen that story, been a part of that story a lot of times. There's no question that the dynamics around Nickel are exceptional. Maybe the best they've been since the real super cycle. Notwithstanding that, I do think there's more nuance in the way that this will roll out. I do think that it'll be more graduated and you're not going to see this massive Nickel supply shock that's going to somehow disrupt the EV revolution. Instead, you're going to see a diversified type of battery uses based on what the average show needs to use the car for. This is my two cents. I just want to briefly say that for the first time, I completely agree with you. You're the first producer of an EV metal that's got his head on his shoulders and is spouting pure covenants. Thank you. I agree with Anthony too. If you look at car manufacturers, they don't all sell a car with a six cylinder or an eight cylinder engine. Yeah, four, six, eight and diesel. The same thing is happening with EV batteries. You have different chemistries for different needs and requirements. I think car companies are hedging their bets on, as Anthony says, a lot of short range cars or entry level EVs are using a chemistry that is deficient in Nickel where high performance cars may be Nickel rich and I think you will find a balance. Also, as recycling of Nickel rich batteries starts to take hold in the next decade or two, you're going to see a lot of that material come back into the market. That will help alleviate this infinite demand that people believe will never be fed. One thing that people don't focus on, in fact, it's a much bigger story in terms of dollars, size, any metric is stationary demand, demand for solar at your house or for the new development. Tesla has done a fantastic job being out front with the power wall. However, it's kind of absurd to be using a lithium ion battery for that. Instead, things like lead acid batteries, to say it, vanadium redox batteries and a bunch of other technologies which are all being refined, invested in and ultimately rolled out in the coming years and decade will also further diversify the availability of different types of batteries in different options. I think it's a much more complex story, but the market needs sound bites, the market needs, there's only one way to heaven kind of sound bites, but in actual fact, we have a much more nuanced story that's going to benefit a bunch of different technologies, battery types. And ultimately, if we're talking about a commodity's audience or different commodities, over say the course of a decade. Let me ask you a question about the geopolitics of this. The Chinese are very aggressive and acquiring overseas for them sources of these critical materials. Where do you think the West stands in having enough nickel owned or controlled by Western companies to compete in the next decade? Over the next decade. Well, they're two different, as we all know, they're two different governments and China is investing on behalf of its people, effectively tax dollars, let's call them tax dollars. And they're executing a political strategy and they're decarbonizing. I think when China looks or has looked historically domestically at things that upset people, because ultimately they have a constituency, one of those was corruption, and another one was pollution. And in addition to electrification and transitioning towards electric vehicles and batteries and solar, they're also doing things like moving industry out of the major cities, out of the path of when they're doing a bunch of that. And that's their prerogative. And I think sometimes there's these sort of articles written as if they're doing something nefarious. I would actually argue that they're leading the world in some respects in environmental policy. And the West, not just America, but Canada and Europe to a large extent are embroiled in fights over, should you get vaccinated? Shouldn't you get vaccinated? Like, did they just stick an electrode? I mean, just nonsense, right? And I don't foresee in the States or in Canada that somebody's going to lay out a couple billion dollars to build a nickel mine, if there's even one to build in the States, if it's not sitting in a foreign national forest. And so I think it's a much more kind of complex conversation because on the one hand, I don't think China is doing anything wrong. And I'm not aware of any accusations other than the fact that the government is using effectively their taxpayer dollars to execute a government sanctioned strategy. That's great. That's a great idea. The West doesn't have that same idea. And so no, I don't think there are very many assets controlled. And nor will there be any time soon, you know, look at the projects in Australia. You know, these are big CapEx projects, multi-billion dollar CapEx projects that have challenges around grade. They have challenges around H-Powell. They have challenges around power. Like is anyone after the experience of Goro or after the experience in MBATIVI, are they going to like line up to put six, seven, eight, ten billion dollars in? I don't think any time soon. So that makes Australia challenging. You know, you come to Canada with the exception of maybe Ternigan, Dumont that are nickel sulfide ore bodies, both of which have, you know, a couple billion dollar CapEx. You know, no one's lining up as far as I could see. Everyone knows where those assets are. So it's a more complex situation. And we have a free market in the West. And if you're an allocator of capital until maybe the last 10 days, just go buy tech stocks. Go buy the NASDAQ 100. The S&P last year was up 29%, 100% liquidity. Or you can buy some crappy little junior mining company with zero liquidity that's either going to be up 50% or down 70%. So I think people don't put it all in context. And the reality is, if we believe in a free market system, there's been much better places to put your capital for years and years now. And you know, if the moment arises when investing in these is a good idea, then you'll see money flow in and they'll get built. But I can tell you Dumont, as far as I know, is fully permitted, shovel ready, two billion dollar CapEx. Goldman has been running a process for eight or 10 months like, okay, Ford go build it. Okay, Tesla go build it. Okay, a government of Canada go build it. Well, no one's building it. So, you know, that's a decision that's being made. And I think sometimes China is wrongly accused of doing something that various, they're not just implementing their, their public policy goals. I'm speechless. Because I completely agree with you. Okay, on that note, critical materials corner this week with nickel. Thank you everybody for joining us. We have the team from nickel 28, Martin and Anthony. Thank you. And of course, Jack Lipton. Thanks guys. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Tracy. Thank you, Tracy.