 It's the top of the hour. So let's begin. Let me welcome everybody. Let me welcome you to the Future Trends Forum My name is Brian Alexander. I'm your host cat herder and the creator of the forum And I'm delighted to see you all here today. We have a terrific subject With a very powerful message and I'm really glad I'm getting a chance to discuss it now I'd like to introduce this week's guest Adam Fenderson is a filmmaker. He and his wife have been making documentaries And they're very very powerful films But what I'd like to bring him on stage for is to address his new work. He and his wife have produced called unlikely you This is documentary about some college students who tried to succeed at college and failed And then are trying again and are wrestling with universities and colleges to succeed Adam welcome to the forum. Thank you for having me. Well, grateful to see you really grateful to see you We introduce people and for all walks of life. We've introduced sitting politicians. We've introduced college presidents journalists and The best question we have in order people to introduce themselves is to ask them What are you gonna be working on for the next year? What's gonna be taking up most of your time? Well right now so my wife and I like he said our filmmakers and so we What's taking up all our time right now is a new documentary that we're working on But this is not about education. This is a little different from what we've done before it's about small businesses in America That's taking up all our time up through basically Let's see like the through October But then after that we're gonna go back to unlikely so unlikely is The documentary that we premiered it at the Napa Valley Film Festival last year and we've done Hundreds of screenings across the country where they're they're all Grassroots screenings is what we call them and so there people are Ordering the film to come out and show it at their university or at their school We've done a few red carpet premieres But now we are building up to the theatrical release of the film, which is really cool. So we have A new cut we've cut the film down to change it slightly from what we what it was in the past and Added some stuff take some stuff away and now we have a theatrical cut that we basically finished and are the In theaters in three in in new york la in dc And then we're also now looking at a few other theaters and we're going to be doing A run in theaters in late september or early october and so stay tuned for the exact dates or when it's coming out But that's that's what's going on right now. And then Quickly after that within, you know, a few months after that We're going to be releasing on some sort of streaming platform netflix hulu amazon itunes that type of thing So that's all coming up and then we're working with the foundations that helped us fund the film along with some new foundations to Create a policy Version so some some clips from the film that we could create for policy Events so that we can use the film And the issues that we bring up in the film To drive conversation for the 2020 election about the importance of student success in higher education Fantastic. What a terrific agenda. First of all as a small business creator and owner I'd love to hear about this new documentary too As a small business ourselves it's It's Yeah, but um, but congratulations on on the success of of unlikely Thank you. I'm in the dc area. So let me know when the dc shine is there. So I can bring as many by students to it as possible. Yeah, we absolutely will. Yeah We're gonna be hopefully having at least one week run in one of the in one of the theaters in the downtown area Well, I'd like to show people Eclipse from the trailer So if you haven't had a chance to see this yet, uh, let me just play this Anybody who's been educated knows you have to get a college degree because that's how you can take care of your family Why would I not graduate before you're as fully as the norm? I didn't have any resources at school They'd have counselors or anything like that $10,000 for two semesters The fact is only the fact is only 50% of those who start college actually graduate Most universities are doing a terrible job and students at once pay price They're bringing in students. They're leaving them with an incredible amount of the easy explanation for why these students are graduating is You know, they're poor and you can't just educate them up to five percent Lots of costs. It's perpetuating inequality. And when our day three We need to laugh It's like a world like a school like a boom In america, we have a one-size-fits-all system either prosper or fall through the crack My job to go back to my friends came for my friends came for a better life. I really want to make them proud I have to do this. I have to do this I'm gonna work at school My job a better day you need to get that piece of paper Everyone needs the opportunity to get the opportunity to get an education about whatever you're thinking about Any university can redesign themselves around so we have to start a movement so we have to start a movement Is let me take getting education right is a single most point thing we can do in america today period Well, who's ready to graduate? Who's ready to graduate? The life I was excited about school These are the butts. These are the butts. They only get aches. I feel like I'm ahead of the game. I feel like I'm ahead of the game right now Are you ready to say I uh I'm gonna play our lives So what happens if you don't cry so what happens if you don't cry to me? I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to think about it What a powerful moving trailer So I friends the way if you're new to the form the way this works is I Start by asking our our poor guest a couple of questions of mine And then what happens is all of you chime in with a tard or questions of your own So I just want to get the ball rolling and ask a couple myself and then please I'd love to hear from you I remember if you're new to this or if you haven't been here for a bit remember the white strip is different buttons So press the raised hand if you uh want to give us a text question or press the or if you want to get Join us on stage or click the question mark if you want to give us a text question Uh, so I got to begin by asking adam What led you and your wife to this particular topic? What what interested you enough to spend so much time on making a film about it? So my wife, uh, is her name is jay and she we are co-directors on all the things that we've done And she was a college admissions officer at columbia university. I actually think I saw somebody here from columbia So hi, uh, so she was a college admissions officer and she read applications and realized very quickly that it was It it was really only low income or I mean it was really geared towards higher income students And that she watched as a lot of low-income students like herself. She was a low-income student Um, we're turned away and so she left admissions because she really wanted to work in film and television And our first documentary was called first generation For low-income students who were trying to be first in their families to go to college You really wanted to understand the challenges of low-income students and see, you know, how they The the competition to get into college and what it takes to get there Is really geared toward the wealthy and so we we wanted to kind of look at the other side of that And then once that film came out and we did a bunch of screenings and Got some sponsorships and did some cool stuff with it And then after that we realized this people were saying what's your next documentary? You should look at completion. Um, it's not just about getting to college. It's about getting through college And originally we were like no we're done with doing education documentaries but then when we learned that Less than 50 of the students that started college actually graduate we were just blown away You can't can't just be the students are prepared Or the students aren't, you know, smart enough. Um, there's got to be something else to this And so we started investigating it and that kind of drove us into this direction of saying There's a big issue in higher education where it comes to the institutions That are not serving the students the student population that we have today They're just not serving them in in the ways to help them be successful And so that's kind of what we Uncovered as we were as we were filming this and we wanted to look at the schools that were doing a good job that kind of reinventing that And and how to serve today's students and then also, you know Kind of investigate some of the problems that these students are facing that today's student is facing Because I think one of the big things that we hope people get out of the film is that today's student Is not what we typically think of as a college student. Um, it's not a 18 to 25 year old It is not it is much older Different type of population than it has been in the past. Um, and in but in the past I when we talk about traditional students We're really talking about, you know, 40 years ago not, you know, 10 years ago and so for years now it's been a different type of student and we believe that Institutions have been slow to catch up on that and really help those students be successful Well, that's a That's a powerful narrative for this that completion rate is horrendous And and it's a kind of a known a known effect within higher education but not so much beyond and you're absolutely right about the Change of the population. We normally don't think about this but the There's still the idea the typical college student is um, 18 years old coming from a prep school perhaps So going um, and the you know, something like 38 to 40 percent of students are now adults Yeah, a very very different different world and before I can further This line of thought we have a question from uh, kelly walsh Long time friend of the program and a wonderful cio in the state of new york How's it going kelly? Good. Good. How are you? Can you hear me? Okay? Yeah All right, great. Adam. Nice to meet you and uh As someone who works in an institution where over half of our students are the first in their families to go to school Um, a lot of uh, you know low-income non-traditional students and we've been very successful Facts the brookings institute that report that showed that we were one of the most successful institutions in the region at Improving students financial mobility. So this top You guys roge chetties, uh, put you put you guys pretty much up there. I know I know about that. Yeah, that's Oh, yeah, great. Yeah. So this is topic is near and dear to me Um, so i'm curious that you know in through doing the documentary and and having all this exposure that you've had We know what kind of factors if any stood out when it comes to How did these students manage to kind of turn turn it around and go from from struggling to succeeding? You know, was it about certain teachers certain instrument, uh, you know institutional practices? Um, you know just you know, it was it did it come down to them and what they did What were your experiences with that? I think what we were we were looking at specifically where the institutional Changes and so the institutions really shifted the way that they think about Which students they're helping how they're helping them. Um, it's you know, we really shifted away from Getting into college, which we talk a little bit about um, and how it's um, how it is You know really driven for the elite and for the wealthy Um, especially some of the top tier schools that have these amazing graduation rates places like Columbia where my wife worked It is and that she narrates the film from her point of view And so there's great graduation rates in certain places But uh, the majority of those schools are really gated to the wealthy and so these other schools that um Frankly a lot of them are trying to be these same upper echelon schools when we have state schools like um, even Uh, you know these big state universities that are trying to move up in the u.s world And you know in the u.s news and world report rankings and they want to be like these top tier schools It really doesn't serve the public. Um, so we see these low Graduation rates and so we need to we looked at these schools and said hey, which ones are doing a good job And it really is an institutional change that we see the shifts that certain schools are taking to focus on which um to focus on the students that they have and to open the doors to more students One of the big success stories that we we look at in the film is george's state, which i'm sure a lot of Educators are aware that they're they're kind of making waves and some of the some of the work that they've done But we look at the way that they are Targeting students following students making sure that these students have support. Um, we were also looking at some of Some other schools that have different Different ways of educating students. So we have um, we look at a competency-based program And how that is that We believe that competency-based education can be absolutely excellent and that if we can focus on that We can turn it into something that would be not just supportive to The students but also help the school scale To a larger amount now their graduation rates are tough on those because it's it's a it's a newer system But we do think that there's ways to go like pull people back in That have finished um, and and help them get a degree at a lower cost That is a quality degree and I think that that's one of the top things that we were talking about said what's a quality degree but I think that there are a lot of there are a lot of opportunities out there that the universities and college systems can take advantage of To to actually support the students. So of course every student Needs to put their own effort into it. So yes, we need to look at what the students are doing as well But if we stand back and just say well, the reason why they're not being successful is because they're not working hard enough um and 50 percent of the students just aren't working hard enough apparently that's just not true like we it's economically and You know Socially we need to make sure that we have more students with some sort of post-secondary degree It's not just, you know a feel good. Let's help out these students Like we need to do this economically to stay competitive So if we don't shift and if the university systems don't shift to make sure that these students are being successful Then we're missing out excellent Kelly before you go, uh, is there anything that you and your institution do that you would add to this? That's not successful Sure, in fact a lot of what adam said rang true right away with with us So, you know, we're a career, you know a career school Essentially, although we've become more traditional in many ways, but not in changing how we support student success. So We have so many resources in place success coaches You know a huge focus on retention You know everything we can do to you know as adam was talking about to pay attention You know have an eye on who's struggling. Why are they struggling? What can we do to give them support? You know tutoring and the learning center and just so many resources we have and making sure that they're aware of them And that we're being very proactive about going out of our way to say Hey, what are the challenges you're facing? What can we do to help you overcome them? As well as paying attention to the financial because that's one of the big reasons a lot of times students leave They're you know, they have life Situations and changes that cause them struggles there. So what can we do to be flexible to help them get through those things? I had a that's wonderful. And I think Kelly we may need to bring you back Or have a session on your campus to talk about that. Sure Raj Chetty's not an easy person to impress Let me let me come back to something that came up in the trailer And and I think this also also come a year ago in the forum when we had sarah golder grab as a guest You know, we do ever since 1960s We've had this pretty elaborate system of financial aid everything from federal aid to state aid to institutional aid It's very expensive. It's very extensive. It can be quite bureaucratic Why is that failing? I mean, how come how come what's wrong with that system right now? Sarah golder grab is going to tell you all about why it's failing. Um, she uh, yeah, she's a force out there. Um, I I do not be able to specifically say why it's failing. I think that there are lots of There are lots of things that are that are That the financial aid system is struggling with. Um, I think that that you know universities the price has obviously gone up so hot In the same way and so we're we're running for a lot of these issues where the the price it's just it's just pricing people out Um, but I do know that there are also There are also a lot of Opportunities that students don't know about and I think that that's a big issue And and this has been an issue that we've been looking at for years Where it's like it's amazing to me that students have this idea this assumption of how much things cost Uh, that they don't realize that there are opportunities out there that there are other options. Um And and every school will tell you we've got this and we've got this and we've got this way and this way and this way to help But I don't think the students know that I don't think the information gets down to the students the same level that it should Um, and that's from getting in all the way to graduation And so I think that there are a lot of issues that that the financial aid system needs to look at. Um, and There's a federal level. There's state level and there's institution level. Um, and I think federal and you know Obviously people are talking about a federal level. That's all over the the news right now. Um, but I think that at the institution level It's going to be an individualized system. So each Institution really needs to look at what they're doing What what they can do to help? Um at the state level, you know, can we allocate more funds to the institutions? How do we do that? Um, does there need to be some sort of accountability? To move its funds. I mean, there are so many questions about How to make sure that the schools are getting the right funding and that the funding is getting down to the students that Incredibly complicated. So I know that sarah is way better at this than I am But that and she was a passionate guest and I wanted to hear what you would learn. So thank you That's a that's a terrific answer of And kelly, thank you again. Um, thank you again for being here Please join us for more questions before the hour is out We had a question from jason at columbia actually and He wanted to know more about the storytelling side of things This is the you know, the making this film is quite a challenge. It's not a visual topic per se How did you how did you turn college success into a compelling narrative and video form? That's a that's a tough thing to do So we I think that at the heart of every story is the characters, right? So there are There's so much information that we wanted to get across that We we have we interviewed so many experts and so we have A lot of the a lot of the stuff that's in the film is going to be the Experts talking as well as we created some animation with some characters that kind of Help us tell these Help us explain these details in a In an understandable way So there's experts and there's narration and there's and there's animation that kind of gets the information across But at the heart of every story are the the characters and so we followed five characters or five the students Through their their everyday life and we see the struggles that they go through And hopefully that is what You know people people watch the film and and you may remember this stat or that stat But what we really want you to do is connect to the characters And understand them and feel Feel like you can understand their struggles and what they're going through And then that that's what makes any story compelling in our in our opinion. So There's plenty of movies out there that are just talking heads But if you don't if you don't get to know The people behind it and the people that are actually affected by this and see their lives and in the film you meet Them and their family and their children and the school that they're going to and and you really see the struggles that they are facing As well as their successes and so you can cheer for them and you can and you can you know, cry with them as well We have we have more questions coming in and let me bring a few folks up on the stage And friends, so you see how easy it is to join us up here on stage and also to ask questions by text So please fire them off. This is a rich subject. I'm going to add a little thing here You should see a little teal colored box on the screen. If you click that you should be able to join us up here on stage And we have a longtime friend of the program tom riley Who has a question? Let's see hey tom. Hello, basically i'm working our climate crisis and it's now very clear that During the work of life of the people we're training We will either achieve we will achieve some Stabilized human society that fits the planet Uh and there's just a question of how many people are going to be alive for it between 1 billion and 6 billion So but and this is one of the most dramatic things that's happened in human history And we just are not presenting it to our people to our young people we're not talking about it and I've been trying to do so wrote a bunch of short stories then we wrote a Screenplay and the question is What can we do with the screenplay? How do you move it forward? Seems to be your area of expertise That's a good question tom Making a movie about any topic is one of the most difficult things in the world I mean there's so many we actually just took over these offices from somewhere that was working on a climate change documentary so there are Multiple documentaries coming out there about climate change For us every time we are making a film financing comes from different places The film that we're working on right now is uh Is financed by a corporation And the film that our last film was financed Yeah, unlikely it was filmed financed Completely by foundations So first step if you want to get something made is to find the people that care about it Obviously you're passionate about it but find the people that care about it that have a bunch of money And then ask them for the money put something together Put together funds or organizations or corporations And and finding the the cash flow And then that and that is always the hardest thing once you can get once you get the money to get it going Um, then you can you can start moving forward. Usually it's piecemeal You do little things there It took us a long time to make this last documentary It took us seven years to make our first one It took us about five years to make this last one. So it is a it is a long process and with climate change You're right. We don't have that much time. So, uh, you got to you got to find the money fast But I would also encourage you to go out and find the documentaries that are out there that you really enjoy Um, there's lots of stories about that going on right now find the ones that you enjoy and figure out a way that you can promote those Um, we've done this much with other documentaries in the past where we are, you know, the things that we're passionate about we Um, see films about them. We go out and promote the movies that are already out there. So Um, if you don't have the the resources to make your own film about something I'm sure there's something out there telling you the That is sharing your message And I would highly advocate to to go out and and push that story push that those films forward Oh, thank you for that rich answer. Um, that's a terrific answer Thank you Tom for the question. Uh, we have, uh One quick question about this along the way, um, uh, what do you make of the work of adam curtis the british documentarian? he, um Well, this is this is awful. I'm gonna tell you possibly to watch and you'll disappear for like a week just watching this Curtis uses enough. He doesn't shoot any footage All he uses are archival footage from most of the bbc But also if you're the british archives and you make documentaries up to six hours long Yes, and they're fantastic. They're detailed political arguments, but But it's in a sense that's easier that you don't have to do the full pre-production You know shooting scouting locations or anything Easier is definitely. I don't know if that's the right word It's like people make an animated movie. You don't have to go out there and film it No, I know I know this is if you're if you're inhabiting that space I think if you're I think that helps Um, so you've got two questions about the craft of filmmaking which is which is terrific. Yeah, that's great Those are the fun things. I went to school for filmmaking. I went to school at usc Which is not really something to be proud of right now. I don't know if we should be proud of that or not because stuff is going on I can still say by it on Um, well, we have we have more questions that come and tax and I'm just going to read a few of these two One that comes up from the excellent pewter shea is was there one practice that filmmakers found that was particularly important to promote student success Yeah, for us, I think the the thing that we found was targeting so Targeting is the wrong word but finding students so being aware of the students that you have on the campus and then being aware of what and and Jumping in to support early and often And I know this is like something that is so everybody's like, of course. Yeah We have lots of counselors and we have counselors that are but going in and stepping in and being Being part of that students life right away From the moment they're accepted all the way until they're graduating And there's lots of people that are doing it in different ways. And so there's text bots that are working Georgia state talks about their their tech spot a lot and like how questions that it can answer and stuff like that but Not just being there to answer questions, but also being there to pose questions to ask questions to be In these students lives A lot is is really important and that is an expensive thing and this is what we've Talked to people and they're like, well, that's great. We can you know, we'd like to boost our counseling or we'd like to boost this But it's very very expensive and that it always comes back to money. Everybody's like, well, it's it's really expensive It's really expensive and that's true supporting students and being and adding People and And programs that are going to support these students is going to be expensive. And so that is a that's a tough thing to find But that was from what we saw along the way having more one-on-one and having more Intervention and stepping in early and often is Is always going to to yield a higher graduation rate and more success That's what they do in high school. You know, that's what they do when they're younger It's like they have a teacher there. They have the people they're meeting with and they know And in our documentary talk about it. It's like if a school is If a high school Has a graduation rate of 65 percent or less Then it's marked a dropout factory 65 percent many many Huge state institutions have graduation rates under 40 percent and we don't bat an eye at it and it's it's you know down the street from us There's a state school that had a graduation rate of 27 percent when we started working on this documentary I'm not sure what it is now, but I'm like 27 percent I mean, that's terrible. How do we continue to fund that? How do we continue to To allow that that those numbers And I know that there are tracking issues and people will argue. Hey, well once they leave our school We can't track them. Well, we need to start changing that we need to make sure that these students are being successful so I think that I think that if we don't do something and step one is trying to figure out a way to be In these students lives from the moment that they get accepted so that you don't have a summer meld Where people disappear and don't show up to first day classes All of them all the way through their freshman year making sure that in a much more highlighted way to make sure that they are Successful through their freshman year and show up for their sophomore year And then touching in touching base with them all the time. That's what's going to yield a higher Graduation rate. So and that's just step one. There are so many other things That's a powerful step And I want to bring up Another guest who has a question precisely along those lines This is Jacob. Is it go well or gavel? It's gavel gavel nice for you to come. Thank you, Jacob So my question is Have you encountered any ideas? For improving retention rates that cost exactly nothing Um I don't think so. Um, I think the idea of costing exactly nothing is Is impossible, right? So how about in in dollar terms? Yeah, no, I I think that the way that it costs exactly nothing is to Move things around right to allocate funds in different ways. And so um There are and and I'm not the expert if we if we had you know, someone from george's state If we had tim renick up here, which I would highly recommend giving him on here again So if you had tim on here, he would he'd probably be able to tell you more ideas Um, but the cost of being absolutely zero Is tough, but there are very small ways of doing it So one of the things that they that george's state implemented that a lot of other schools are taking over now Is what they call the panther grant and it's basically a graduation Grant, excuse me. So what it is what it is is students that have A need a financial need at $1,500 or less Um At and they're on track to graduate. They're a junior or senior. They're on track to graduate. They need $1,500 or less they They can give that money without a student having to To do anything really they're not applying for the funds they have they have a need that's in their That's in their bank account basically in their school account And some of them are as low as $600 $500 And a lot of those students are actually just not showing up for their last semester Because last year even though they're on track to graduate They have everything they need and that $500 $600 is stopping them from getting their degree So that is something that they realized. Hey, we just had a small amount of money We could do something with this and so they actually got a very small grant That was given to the school And it started a fund where now that money actually Turn that goes to these students and they don't give away that much to each student but the The the number of people that are graduating from that from that gap Dramatically increased very very quickly and now something that tim will say which is actually really interesting is Often people think that it's just going to cost money But the truth is that the return on your investment is greater than the investment itself So it the roi which is really a tough thing to to be able to prove but the roi on Fighting for retention is greater because these students are saying and they're paying tuition for another year They are they're staying at their in their dorms doing all these things. So the roi is Is there and I can't point to all the numbers, but Every time I sit with tim and I hear him do his feel I'm blown away that that the school is not just spending money to make sure these students Stick around they spend money and the students stick around and then it pays for what they've what they've spent so I don't think that starting from scratch and saying there's no money. We're not talking about costless anything is is going to be That easy, but I think that there are lots of ways that you're going to get that money returned And that's just something that you have to fight for That's a great question Jacob stick around for a second if I can just build on this a little bit two two short questions one is do you think Open education resources which are either freeing your very very low cost Did you see them playing the role in helping the students succeed? Absolutely. Yeah, I think that open source education is is great uh the I think the hard thing with a lot of these is one you have to get the information to the student and two you have to have somebody there to Maintain that they're actually doing it. So if you don't have some sort of Accountability, but there are plenty of peter feal feel will tell you to go out there and just you know Go online and learn everything you can on youtube and then you can start your own business And you can become a billionaire like me. Um, that just doesn't happen, right? There's a handful of people that are very very select that yes They can sit and learn everything they need to learn online They have those resources that I also get annoyed with people just go into youtube But I'm like I can't tell you how many people don't have access to youtube at their home Like it's amazing to me like that that we just assume that like oh everybody has access to the internet all the time not so So the idea that like yes, you can just educate yourself will just give you give all the resources There's everything out there on the internet. You can just learn everything you want and then go off and do that That's not realistic to be able to that you need to spend tons and tons of time Which means you don't have a job, you know what? I mean you don't have something that's paying your bills and it also means that um that you have to have the The confidence and the ability to just sit and work on something and hope that it's going to pay off in the future Most people don't have that and most people aren't going to be that and a lot of people that try to do that end up not being successful and so there is In my in my opinion We have to make sure that yes, we can provide free resources and open source resources But if if we don't have an institution or we don't have a group That is drawing the student to those resources and making sure that they are following up and turning those resources and in the stuff that they learned from that into a career or some sort of You know Degree that will help them move on in their future. Then then it's just information That's expensive Again, Jacob's question is a fantastic one Let me ask one question, which is even harder based on jacob's and jacob's gonna regret asking this question Um, is is there anything that colleges and universities currently do? That doesn't directly contribute to student success that they could stop doing Money to student success. Well, let's be a radioactive question. How much time do we have? That is That's the question that I like to pose to all of the universities that I talk to I say Let's look at the things because lots of universities like to brag on the things that they're doing that are helping students Oh, there's this and we've got this and we've got that and all of it great And so I like to pose the question which I actually heard from I forget another speaker And he said we need to look at the things that we need to stop doing it's great Look at these are all these things that we're doing. But what do we need to stop doing? and there is A huge amount of things that we need to stop doing um, and I could get into Oh, so many of them, but it really depends on the on the school level So each school has a different, you know, how much money are you putting towards towards certain things that are not Actually serving student success And my argument is I want everybody to go online Go to your school's website and read what your school mission is Just find out like what is your school's mission? Right, so everybody's got a mission statement. It could be a sentence. It could be a few paragraphs What is your mission statement? What is the goal of your school? And then look at every dollar that's being spent and every time we have board meetings and trustee meetings And we're trying to push money into this that let's make sure that it feeds the mission Most likely the mission doesn't say something like we really want to move up in the us news and world report rankings I'm just sure it doesn't say that. Um, I would be really surprised if it was like we want to be a higher ranked school Um, that's just not the that's not what's important most often These missions are going to say things like We want to be creating graduates We want to be creating, you know educated people and sending them out into the world If we're not doing that if the mission if that mission is not Being accomplished by the money that's being spent then let's not spend the money in that way um Is this is this decision actually going to grow the amount of graduates is going to grow the amount of of Students are prepared to go out into the world Um Not then let's rethink the way we're spending that money And so I really do I challenge everybody to go and look at what the mission is of the schools that you're supporting What is the mission and when you support that school? Is the is your dollars and is the work that that's going to that school actually Directly related to that mission because unless you're looking at schools that have you know 80 90% graduation We need to think where we're spending that money That's a fantastic question Jacob. Thank you for showing up. I'm on the forum and ruining your career. I'm sorry to uh That's a fantastic. I want to bring you to lots of meetings. Jacob um, we uh, we have a few other questions have been bubbling up and Um, I I definitely don't want to monopolize this question. Uh, here's one that angles over from the k12 um Feeding in angle and this is from the excellent ed web professor at dickinson college He asks how are educational institutions k12 and higher ed Serving or failing the increasing number of students diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders And that is out of my wheelhouse. Um Did you write that and you're making the film? Yeah, I don't I don't know um Much about that type of like that type of special education. Um, unfortunately, I would I think if I would start to say something I'd probably be completely wrong Um, but that is a very very interesting question and I think that there are lots of people out there that should be looking into that So, yeah, I'm sorry. I don't have the answer to that. I appreciate your honesty. Thank you And ed that's a fantastic question. Um, I would be happy to grab a guest for a future forum To dive into that particular subject, which is a big important issue. Well, that's definitely growing We have a Very practical question from the excellent roxanne riskin who wants to know are there any light university libraries showing your film? Um showing our film. Yeah Uh, so there are there are a lot of universities that have showed the film We have a long list of schools that have been showing the film in in events One-off events. Unfortunately, the film is not yet available for educational distribution. So We have a theatrical release And a streaming release. We are going to allow the film to be purchased for libraries and things where the school can own it But right now everything all the events are are licensed are public performance licenses, which basically means We can show the film for an event and if you want to this is Easy time to plug the film. Um, there's a little button down in the Yes, sir That's got that's got the the big you from our our um From our poster, uh, that should take you to our website And if you are interested in hosting screening or you want to do an event around the film You can fill out the form there and that'll get shot over to us and we will be able to fall To to be able to follow up with that. Um, so you can absolutely show the film And then like I said, it's going to be coming out in a little bit in September and October to a handful of theaters and handful of cities and so Keep an eye out for that sign up for the newsletter those types of things and we'll keep you updated But then eventually it will be available for Educational distribution and so you'll be able to get it at libraries Thank you. Uh, and uh, Roxanne, thank you both for the practical question also for bringing in libraries Always playing an essential role in education Friends, we have time for about two more questions. So now is your chance if you haven't had a chance to ask already um This is this is also the part of the program where we tend to push Discussion towards the future if we haven't already done so And I'd like to ask just looking ahead say, you know, five or ten years Are there any changes to higher education that you're seeing that We should really be paying attention to if we're interested in helping students succeed For example, are you seeing you're rising numbers of non-traditional students i.e. adult learners? Are there any rising challenges that we really need to be taking into account that are going to be bigger in the future? I think that uh I mean, obviously the so much of the conversation. Um, I just read this wonderful article. Um, that was on third way About what what the what the true what people truly care about in higher education? Um And you know, we hear a lot of talk about Uh, free college and and that kind of thing. Um, but people but the majority people are actually more concerned about accountability About the the free college movement. Um, and this was a study that was done and it seemed left and right republican and democrat and this uh This idea that we need to be we need to make sure the schools are accountable And I think that accountable to graduation rates and to a bunch of other things But I think that that actually kind of puts us in the direction of the future of what we do need to look at. Um And it's exactly one of the things that you said it non-traditional students are higher than ever That we have so many students out there that have children. Um that are that are coming from disadvantaged backgrounds. Um that are coming from Parts of the of the country that don't necessarily fit into the stereotypical college mold And so we need to make sure that we are The institutions are focusing on them more. Um, and then obviously, you know, the money aspect Everybody's talking about free college. Is that the answer? Is it just make it is making it free of the answer Or is something that we have to do? Um, even if it's in conjunction with that to make sure that the students that get there Are finishing. Um, there's a lot of Places across the country or across the world that have free college and free community college or two-year institutions That don't have great graduation rates either. And so it's not just making it free It's also making equality and making sure that we're that we're getting the students to and through So I think for us the number one thing that people are talking about or the number one thing that we should be talking about In the future is making sure that we know who the students are today's student You know that they are adult learners that they are and that number is growing every single year more students are going back to school Um, everybody agrees even with all the talk about whether a college degree is worth it Everybody agrees that a college degree is absolutely worth it and that it's important to move up in the in society Uh, so we we need to make sure that we're educating all of these students And then and then figuring out the best way to pay for it, which is always the conversation That really is I mean, uh, the american strategy now has been to Pay for debt with student loans Um, and I guess I should ask that in in the film What role did uh student loans play in shaping the lives of these five students and where they Did that did it show up? Was it daunting? Was it empowering? But what did you have to come across? Debt is something that is uh, you know is a reality everybody that you know has to that can't pay for a college straight out is going to go into debt and what you see in the film is that these students have relatively small amounts to debt amount of debt You know less than 20,000 dollars, which of 20,000 dollars is a lot of money for a for a low-income student But 20,000 dollars, uh debt, which is still, you know a large number Is relatively manageable if you Can pay it off at a normal level if you have a good rate and you have a good job So the big problem is let's say it's 20,000 dollars or 10,000 dollars worth of debt Which is a lot of these students like that giant trillion dollar The debt that we hear is actually a lot of little tiny pieces. Um, and that is our big issue is not just the debt It's the debt without degree. That's that's the problem If you go it'd be like going and putting money down on a car, but never getting the car You don't have the thing that you paid for so payments for years Yeah, making payments for years and you can't declare bankruptcy. It's it's kind of an awful situation, but the the The debt without the degree is what we constantly are are pointing at so it's not just like You know, let's make sure that no students have any debt because if you have 20,000 dollars worth of debt and you have a b.a That's that's a good turnout because that b.a can turn into a much higher level And everybody knows that number or you should if you don't know it It's a million dollars more over your lifetime, right? Students make a million dollars more with a bachelor's degree than they do with a high school graduation over their lifetime on average That million dollars is a pretty good Return on investment if you're spending 20,000 dollars a debt. Um, that's a pretty good return on investment Now if you get 20,000 dollars worth of debt and you don't get a degree Then it's a terrible investment. So you we have to make sure the students are finishing That's our that is the whole reason why we come back to this It's like we don't want to send students away without a degree and having debt We have to make sure they're finishing that means the institutions need to change what they're doing To make sure that they're not sending students away with debt without a degree Make sure they're sending them away with a degree, right with the power to succeed and go be a Um, Adam, I hate to say this, but we are somehow out of time. We have we have reached the the end of the hour Carried away by your enthusiasm and by your vision Thank you so much. Let me ask one last question before before we leave, which is how do we stay in touch with you? We go to unlikely.com Unlikelyfilm.com. Yeah Check out our website. Um You can follow us on twitter I'm I my the the film's twitter is unlikely film Uh is at unlikely film. Uh, we have our Our production company is three frame media. So we have an app three frame media Um, I'm kind of rolling so you can call me. It's just adam venerson or something like that. Um, but uh Yeah, I would say keep up on on social media Um, and then also through our website, we can sign up for our newsletter We don't bombard you with newsletters. We just send one out every now and then to kind of keep people posted on what's going on Um, so yeah That's terrific. Uh, thank you so much for making this film I'm really looking forward to as many people as possible seeing it And um, I'm really looking forward to your next film as well. Thank you so much for your time Absolutely. Thanks very much for having me that they care and don't go away friends You've been asking great questions. Um, and I want to point you towards next week because here's what's coming up Next week, we have a wonderful guest Joanne soliday who has written a new book on a complete vision for a new university Does it support students towards graduation as we've been discussing? Let's find out the book is called pivot and we're really looking forward diving into that now speaking of readings Our book club is gearing up for another reading of science fiction to help us imagine the future of science fiction of education and technology So please get me your title suggestions and we'll be putting out a poll for that very soon If you'd like to grab a copy of pivot or any of these other books head to our bookstore The only bookstore in the future of education out there And if you'd like to keep this conversation going thinking about what george attack did thinking about what westchester did thinking about this film We have plenty of venues for that We have groups on slack facebook linkedin and follow me on twitter if you've been talking today And if you'd like to keep our conversation going you know how to do it Otherwise, we'll see you next week. Thank you so much for your time. Take care. Bye. Bye