 So you have to lean in, Geoff. I've been a pound. I'll speak this way if you want to slide, so you're in. Hello, hello everybody. Good evening, everyone. Hello, hello. It's a good friend, Howard. He's from America, just having fun with us. How good is that? I'm leaving as soon as we're done. And then, punk suitcase. So this is the worst pipe ever. I've never seen you like this. It's a minute and a half. It's, yeah, when you travel all the time and you're full-time, God was really entertaining people. He would eat and over drink. So he's on the floor, especially a little bit. Liquid brass. So are you able to tell what gin that is? You look sweeter. I'm not a big genie person, but it is very sweet compared to where we're having it. What would you normally have? Put it to us. Put it to everyone. Pretty sweet. Yeah. But Henryx is probably my favorite. They do a nice Sibylla orange. The orange. Tank-ray orange. So we need to explain where we are. Where? We are in a pub that we've been at before. It's like a, this is a first repeat. It's the world. It's not? Well, no, we've done the Knights Templar a few times. And we've done the one-in-challenge. Okay. Scratch that. It's not a repeat at all. This is the juicer. This is the most interesting discussion ever. It gets worse. This is the Juke of Argyle on, actually it's the corner of Great Wimble Street in Soho in London. And we are honored to be joined by Howard Sublett, product owner of the Scum on Eyes. Chief product owner of the Scum on Eyes. Just so you can have it. I've made some more sense. I forgot the chief. So yeah, it's a very nice surprise. It only got organized literally this afternoon. That's in town. We're in town. Yeah. This is the magic of Twitter. Yeah. So that post can say, I'm coming to town. Yeah. And here we are. Bank said, hey, you're going to be in town. And so that we ended up with this. So it's good. It's a happy accident. Yeah. It's a wonderful accident. So we do have to say what we're drinking. We should say love you guys. So don't identify sweet gin or something. Yes. And equally, non-descript, and lemonade for me. This is a Samuel Swith pub. So yeah, there's no Smirnoff around here. Absolutely. It's Sam Smith's vodka. I'm taking a nut-brown ale. Is it nutty and brown? It's definitely brown. Yeah. See, Jeff's much more descriptive than it is. Is it? Cold nuts, though. Cold nuts. So that's kind, Jeff. You like hot nuts there, you know? Anyway, moving on. So what's new with you? A lot's new with you. A lot is new with me. Personally, with me as a representing organization. Well, let's see where it goes. Let's start with what's most interesting. Let's see where it leads. Let's have these things go. We don't plan that. Personally, getting to marry my son, this last one kid, and then four or five weeks from now, I watched my second son, two boys over here getting married. So just to clarify, I would get to see Mary's son. He performed the ceremony. I actually didn't think that your audience needed for me to be that little. You'd be surprised. We're in England. Yes. That's true. That's true. That's true. That's true. How is it registered? It's registered. $35 in the internet. That's all it takes. I'm actually over here for a business conference this week. Oh, yeah. We're going to some interesting conversations with some leaders of organizations that have asked me to come. And so I actually have an organization that wanted me to meet there because they were diverse. I had a conversation with me about something. So it's always interesting to know what's that. See you. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know me. I didn't know you. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think? Talkies. Just fundamentally from him. I was looking for minutes and I was guessing. And I didn't approach everything as well. To build a friend of him walks. So any other organization that is interested in talking to me and talking to us as an organization, it's always an opportunity to shake hands, to come there and let me agree on them. And how do we make them work better or at least together rather than competing on personal things, which is mostly what's in the process. You've been building a lot of bridges. I'm trying. I'm trying. We've said this before, but I think how it must be the most well-connected man I know in the adult community. Yeah. You must have incredible memory for names and scenarios and stories. I think it's gotten important to forget some names, but I remember the people that I remember. I remember something about them. They were gathering in Austin. I was your friend with that trigger. Yeah. Was walking with me and I bumped into somebody and I forgot their name. But somebody else walked by. Oh my God. You two should know each other. You trained dogs. You do cadaver dogs. Yeah. And your son just... And when they raised dogs, and so I made this connection of who they were and she was, how the hell do you remember them? Yeah. But I forgot their name. I remember a lot about them in the context. So there was something about it that sparked a memory with me in the growing up. Is it something you've always had or is it something you've literally just remembered? I think I've always been a person of curiosity. So I can't see something about trying to figure out why isn't the way that we did. We just sat down in those two stools and one was lower. Another said, I'm actually not taller. One stool was lower. So I was trying to figure out why. And so I tend to look at everything and try to figure out the why. Not in judgment, of course, but there's a reason for everything. So it means that I dig through the ground or prove it is. Why did they get to where they were and how did they go to the social? Which I think makes those things stick in my mind a lot better now. Give me some of his phone number and ask me and I will lose a few numbers and I'll trust myself very. I'm likely to say, give him a story. Stories and humans and interests. Honestly, I'll be talking budgets and $150,000 can be $450,000, $154 million. And I'm not making, I just don't remember. I don't trust myself so I write those things down. But the human side and the stories I do really believe. That's a big part of what I think makes you use. You can connect to me. You want to connect to me first of all. And then you can find something and retain you. We're just in the middle of teaching CS people. And we spend a lot of time on connecting with people, just coaching people and coaching with the mission and collecting your help. And you can only really get the mission because you've got the level of rapport and trust to them. You can only get that out of curiosity and care for the person you're with. And establishing common ground, isn't it? And common struggles, common scenarios that you can relate to people through similar experiences. And even if you can remember your own experiences, you can relate to someone else's experiences as well. We were looking at a few candidates in an agency recently. And this person was a lovely person but they came from a very traditional hierarchy. Yeah. And we were talking to them about our company and the Black Organizational Structure. And she said, I just don't get it. They have to have managers. So somebody has to tell them what to do and report to be productive. And I said, that's a good question. Do you live here in Nevada? And she said, well, yeah. I said, on the highway, right? She said, who was telling you what lane you could get in? I said, there are thousands and thousands of those cars moving from a coordinated point of view. And I said, there's a speed limit. And just road. But they're generally new integration. You guys are signaling each other. They're a sub-organization with vehicles that can play in the car. And yet, I said, now let's change the scenario. I said, they have to have a manager. Now you can move to the middle lane. And I told them to move out. How long will it take them to hit the dirt? She said, I wouldn't have that. This is actually my synchronization. I finally get it. She can see individuals working in a system moving from one destination as long as they're planning towards something. She can finally see that. But I'd actually never thought about that before. But I knew she drove there. And she just was like, they're not understanding how this would work. So then I told her, we'd tell somebody else the story again. So like, this is what's up. We're going to show you how the story is. The story is easy to pass on. And metaphor stick as well. People want you to think of something that I remember. My early days at the CSP. My early days at the CSP. When people started really complaining about the CSP about it being licensed to be dangerous. Too late, kind of, sort of. They used the car driving. You get in the driver's license. And you're now in possession of a vehicle that can kill people. Even statistically, most people don't. No. And you deal with the accidents when they... You don't build a whole bunch of walls to prevent everything from potentially happening and going nowhere. We have to take a suit amount of risk. Yeah. But you do learn through experiences along the way. About... Adjusting your speed limit. Going too fast. Getting caught for speeding. Getting caught for speeding. Hello, that's me. Multiple times for my sins. I've been caught. I don't know how you still got a license. I won't mention on this podcast. More than once. More than once. But yeah, you do... I know I think I do have, generally, now learned my speed. Of course, we don't condone speeding on this podcast at all. Pretty much. Amazingly. Yeah. But these things are there to adjust your... I'm a Gary, let me go drive. For life experiences. Adjust your... Okay, so that's cool. So the ABC, are you... They're working there. So you're going to go to city sessions. And honestly, I've not even looked at the schedule. It's not worth it. And I'm working with a marketing company. We look at most of the Portuguese experience that I've ever done at school. I do have a talk there. And the agility for the community. I just hang out and hosting in a paper. I'm tired. I've never been to a seriously school. It's very worldly and fragile. So you have to say that. I mean, you should know about this. I see that. I mean, shock the two of them. So you didn't know about it? No. The same people, Hugo Lorenzo, those experienced with some musical intent. And then he started last year with this concept he and Pete Snowden and Denning and a group of them thought like that there should be some way to recognize customers that really kind of are exemplary and just move to the general level. And so the first year last year we hosted it as a restaurant in a separate community. And we moved this within an organization that we recognized. This year it's a little bit more formal. So hopefully as it grows, you know, as things start, you start with something. But I understand I'm hosting a roundtable discussion on Sunday. But you don't even know about yet? I don't know. I'll be there. Wait, is it? Listen. My invite was stupid at first. You're not even nominated? Nominate. Somebody has to nominate you for the award. Oh, wow. I don't even know what. I mean, that's nice. These are cool. They're really nice. By a plane ticket, how do you choose to be motivated? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So you must be racking up a fair bit of travel and miles and... Too much right now, but it's all about choice. It's one of those things like this thing for me, and I think a few guys know this, is this wasn't a job. This was that thing that I had to go do. And so I'm doing the things that I know I need to do to move on. You know, it's just a long discussion with my wife over, are we willing to pay the plane that this is going to cost on the bodies of our relationships? And you've met my wife. I think I have a couple of times, yeah, yeah. But she said the absolute best thing during this, trying to make the decision to take this on as well. My wife said, I can live with you and pursue your dream, and I never see you. But I can't live with you being home and always wishing you were a child. Yeah, yeah. So I will support you chasing your dream. So I was like, so I'm like, okay. So thank you. She's at home now. She's with mom. Is she? She is. Unfortunately, this is her favorite city. She would rather be here. I'm sure that Tracy is probably a listener of the pubcast anyway, so I'm sure she'll be hearing this. All the time. All the time. She doesn't have a T-shirt. Oh, we could have given her a T-shirt. Oh, we could have given her a T-shirt. We've got a T-shirt with us as well. We've got some back... Oh, we could have given her a T-shirt. Well, you'll see me tomorrow, next day, right? No, I'm dead men tomorrow. We'll call you around then. We can find a way to get... Send it to the hotel or something. Come to the end. Come to the end. That's our coaching machine. It's a box-h gear. I'm giving it a tour. We'll find a way to get you a T-shirt. Let me know. That might be... Not saying anything. It might be a bit... What's that? Snug. I'm not saying anything. Wow. So much snug here. So much snug. Yeah. Yeah. Europeans. Yeah. We have to choose one size. Yeah. We have to move back. We just went... I just wanted to skip the shirt. No. Let's do that. Yeah. But... Okay. Yeah. So, you mentioned the end. Yes. What can we look forward to again? I wish I could run a while for the tracks. What is it? No. Well, that's... Change... I wasn't getting it except in New York. They've eliminated tracks at all from New York altogether, right? Yeah. New York... So, our gatherings are not dictated by a staff. Okay. It's either a European gathering team or a... That's right. Yeah. They're volunteers and the volunteers are deciding what they feel like they would like to create. So, the tracks in Vienna... I don't think there's anything even related to Scotland. There's a lot of stuff. I don't think it's started. Okay. In that kind of ideation space. There's a lot of really interesting talks and stuff coming out. New York in... I think that's May of 2020. They're deciding no tracks whatsoever. That is... I don't think I've ever known a gathering that hasn't had some kind of theme to a kind of stream thing. Yeah. There's a theme for the whole thing, but there isn't like tracks that you can follow. No. So, it's literally just submit an idea and they'll assess it. Yeah. Everything's up for grabs. Well, then the one previous in Europe in London, they had a dueling keynote. It's the first time I've ever seen that. Yeah. And we took the giant Arnold's foot in half and then basically competed in kind of a scrum master kind of role or auditory role. Yeah. Which was really an interesting experiment. And I think that's one thing I really love about this. We're... You kind of get the community, the ability to drive and create, innovate. Yeah. And do something uniquely different. Yeah. Oh, really? I'm looking forward to the Europe. I've got my fingers crossed that I get assessed and accepted. You know what? Even if you don't get it accepted, you can still come. I can. Yes. I do like New York. We are going to be my life on time square. It's downtown, isn't it? It couldn't be anymore. Yeah. I mean, more downtown than Times Square. And for a small fee, all of those billboards put up there, I can have your face on I can have your face on. No. Smooth. I don't know what the city of New York charges for that, but... Everything's possible. I will not even upcharge that. I just want to see your faces on all the billboards. Yeah. I'll get you an interface. Do that. I'll do that. Yeah. I'm going to show a podcast teacher. Yeah. There you go. So, can we say anything or can we just sneak trailers for what might be going on in New York? I have no clue. I have no idea. I have no idea. That's going to be huge. I don't know what's happening. I was going to say, with New York general, because we expected London to attract a bigger crowd, because I suppose just for transport links, it's just everyone can get to it. Would it be a similar thing with New York that you're expecting a bigger, almost planning for a bigger audience in New York? We are. So, in London, we had planned for 800, and we had nearly $300 waiting for us. In Vienna, we will sell out at 1,000. Yeah. In Vienna, it's a little harder to get to. Yes. Yeah. In US based rooms, we've been running at around 15. We're going to try not to do a 5,000 person service. We really want to keep it at a reasonable size. New York is scheduled for around 2,000. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's big. That's pretty big. Cool. But we will only have, like, eight sponsors. If you went to the Azure conference in DC recently, I think there were 30, eight sponsors. It was massive. There were so many sponsors all there. We just don't have to have to. Limited to have more sponsors. Value to the people that are there. Yeah. And they don't distract from the learning. And there's no reason to be there. Yeah. So I don't want to sell hands when we're talking about everything. They need to win. Another. That's a good thing. We're sitting on the back of the last gathering, which I think was a big, again, we talked about this on a previous podcast was, because Nigel was there. Nigel said how good Dan Pink was at the, you know, that was Austin, wasn't it? Yeah. I'm kind of waiting. I know we don't know what's going to happen yet, but it'll be interesting to see the names on the bill will be as big and as, as, as hopefully compelling to the audience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this is, so we're in the coming into fall. Yeah. Nice. Nice. U.S. reference. Very good. And so coming to the end of. And you, coming to the end of the year. And you just finished a year. We'll see a highlight of the year. So far. I'm marrying your son. Wow. One highlight. My partner in, in leadership with us of ours. Yes. The board having us as a product on that. I'm just going to share with you. But legally. Just to have shared leadership. She doesn't. She's not over me. And I'm not over. We actually. Container of leadership. So we're their leading. And the work that she's done internally. And we're going to organize with the. we're leading. And the work that she's done internally to reorganize our staff and our team basically get rid of all the functional silos and really flatten the organizational structure and turn it upside down. We drew Frost departmental teams focused on customer segments, across the trade rules. So it's not really product focus, but they're customer thinking about the customer lifecycle as that they, for people that are within our organization or should be within the organization at the time. So it's not limited. So I can think of a practitioner, a lot of the customers, you know, the practitioners, those that are practitioners in the world that they get to do this. They're trying to find ways to serve them specifically for us as an association. Same thing for our guides. They should be for people, brand new to this actual journey that have chosen us as an education after they've chosen someone else. That's been a really interesting thing. And then we actually took over with legal and accounting and knew as a circle, a lot of everybody else, maybe really clear that we're not over there. We're in a certain way of position towards the team. And watching our team is just kind of like catching the speed in which they've been able to take an idea to give a presentation and watching our community to get excited about. They haven't seen it. Like in somebody's back in their life, I don't even have a chance to just do the thing that made such progress and such an incredibly short time. I'm proud of what we're able to accomplish. Of course, I will always wish that we would have a little thought. I'm proud of as far as we're not people sure. It's a promise yourself when you make that decision. So I've surprised myself in this whole thing. You both know this isn't the role I put in for them. The finalist for the role, I didn't need any of it. I just told him in the beginning, you don't have all the things you're looking for. And I told him, no, I'm serious, the job appointment, I didn't have any requirements. No, no, no, I'm serious. And I told him, I'm not sure if I was in their seat, I was But I've got to give it a shot. That sense of humility. It wasn't the description. It's how I approached it. So actually, getting a job is a little bit of a But yeah, a lot of our listeners will be in organizations where they think a lot of these things and there's there's frustrated, though, a slow pace change for organizations. And you, yes, you'd like to have them more in them, but you've actually done quite a lot of your own sort of considering And I think that we're known to see at the people noticing, I think that there's a little angles to it. One of them is inspiration makes the most. Yes, it's teams with a sense of, it's true, it's not here. And but yeah, there is an element that we've been seeing things on social media, people have generally had nothing nice to say. Yeah, social media, so you notice I think that if nothing else is going on, it's not a variable. What could be? How often I got a question, perhaps more detailed question. How often are you and Melissa on site together as a co-located kind of partnership? Not often enough. In the beginning, you know, we were there every day. I was there as a vendor and she was there for us. We were spending a lot of time in the beginning. The nature of my role was actual facing. So I have to be places and when you get to the dillies, they don't know that it was that much. I mean, it's fine. OK, you get to me. It's a joke. This is a jolly. In her always inward facing, you know, this is how we're being yourself. You know, nature of me being able to move with the realization I can't necessarily be in the world every day. So we were together a lot. And then what we're finding just recently, we just recently are in a conversation last week about this. We had kind of gotten a product in the busyness of things and it's what we're seeing. We're each other. It's like things that I have to know what's coming and she didn't know things I was going on. How many of us? It's not in second. Yes, it is. It's just like those kind of. It seems to come up to me and say, OK, we have to prioritize time. But it's not the first and foremost over other things. And so I think there's always going to be that near on. So, you know, getting stuck in the busyness of what you do. The one thing about Melissa, but I really do deeply care about and they always resonate for me is her and I we share the exact same principles. Yeah. The values and principles are what we believe that are exact from the same. Now, I may have visibly go forward with it quickly, where she may take a different approach, but we're the same intellectual. So we're actually we're on parallel paths, but I never question this is more involvement. Yeah. So it's it doesn't ever make a confrontation conversation. So that helps. So I've heard you both on podcasts. But first, you hear about podcasting. Yeah. I heard you as a person. You'd be your own headmaster. Well, you talk about how you have very, very different ways of thinking, learning, very different style. Was that a conscious choice to add word that it didn't get up or did you just stumbly post that? Wow. I can't really know. The board hired me. And then we started seeking applications for the Sprawlaster Evolve, which the board. So I was able to play as a board member. I was able to play a little influence in that, looking on the side of the board. So I didn't care more as the board did, just like they hired me. And we weren't really talking about that we had that ideal like personalities. I don't think we can consciously talk about this. Was there a difference? Oh, that person worked with you, but it's just looking for the best. And I'll teach them the same. Yeah, I know. It felt terrible. You know, but let me ask you just because I'm curious to hear from what I hear, if it was a conscious choice, then it was a very creative choice, but one that I think probably needs to be made for. So I'm doing a lot of work on teams and teams. A bit of a little fun and need that diversity. They knew that. But against each other, they need different opinions to be really successful. But it's not easy. Now, we have to work on it. You guys work on it. But it's not actually that front. Tonus from master role has to have to, in some respects, challenge, be able to challenge each other. But you want to push, but yeah. But I don't want to start to be able to slow you down. If you know how just to be your, almost your actual conscience in a way and that. But equally to be able to drive constantly, drive new ideas. Yeah, yeah, but there's has to be that. You still know that one of the biggest things that they were looking for somebody with a really deep coaching background. OK, and so maybe by default, finding that kind of a person. But it's weird because the way you said that about the traditional product of the master role. So I will tend to reverse that because we play so is for real. OK. In an internal focus stand, so she had a great way to describe us when we talked about foreign and domestic policies. OK, you always bring things back to politics. And yeah, let's make it right. But no, I feel like things that are clearly just external facing it's my agreement and things that are specifically internal and it's clearly. Yeah, there's a lot of things that are somewhere around in the middle that the external thing has a deep effect on the rules. So if it's foreign policy, I kind of take one step forward. She takes one step forward. And you probably don't understand it. You said that there's a nice word for it. But a lot of times, like everyone sometimes fully playing the opposite role for her. I describe this role for her in what she's trying to do internally and then we trade those roles. That's interesting, yeah. Because I value what she has to say on her lens and the way that she looks at it. Yeah. And then when she's looking at it all in design, I think she values my experience and what I've seen in other orgs as well. So what we came up with wasn't just out of her brain. We worked on it a long time. But she drove it. It's phenomenal, her vision. But there's a lot of fingerprints in me. Yeah. So they would clean each other up. Yeah, you can critique of the ideas. And that, yeah, that's good because it comes from a shared experience and a shared background. Which is about it at all. Great teams, they'll collect their individual roles and continue next. And you are a team, even though it's only two and you're part of other teams, you do work as a team. Yeah, with a lot of times, I will hear our language between the two of us talk about... I'll say, you know, listen, I need to be able to be able to discuss your strength. And she'll say, Howard, you need to take the point that this is your strength and not our strength. We would just say those things to each other and giving each other permission, just go ahead and step forward. Because I'm looking to follow you on this. She says the same thing to me. So it's been... She's only come on since January. It's been a normal line team. It's been hard. It's been hard. But again, so the feedback, we only hear probably second or maybe even third hand about people that have been to gatherings or seen the two of you on stage or seen... And I think generally there's that kind of chemistry of what we want to call it, mutual respects for the fact that you are a partnership and you do have the same direction, you've got the same vision for what you're trying to achieve. And even if you do, you know, flip-flop between the roles slightly, you're both pushing on the same direction. One more thing. I'm not going to talk about that. I think a lot of it has to do with... Melissa went to a gathering. She tells the story and said, this is her story and her mind. Her first introduction into this space was to a gathering and it changed her career, she was on the library. People in the community affected her so deeply. She helped her lead her career to a directory that highlights this organization through the community. And how the exact same thing happened with the meetings many years earlier of when I got connected to this organization and to its mission and to the people, it became like a passion project for the invention. So we both shared that. So we don't come... I guess if you just got hired at this, it was just a job. It wouldn't matter if they both care deeply about what we achieve. It was a higher purpose to... I think that's one of the biggest needs for it. Now, this is the problem. So it's not just about doing things but trying to change the topic a little bit. Is there a danger to be so... actually invested in really the... Too close to the... But you really care, it's not just a joint. You really care. Is there a danger there? The danger for me is that I genuinely care about each person and their family and everything else that if I'm not careful, it stops me from making a bold decision for us as an organization that I know may anger sign. I'll set some people in. If you make a decision for one thing, you're saying no to other places. So I'm constantly wrestling with it. So if you were all just numbers, it wouldn't matter, right? We do matter, we're not numbers. So that's the big thing for me, is that knowing the implications of what you decide and what you do. And I tend to think about things, not just the rock in your water and the pond, but you're just from how they're just outside. So does that close the analysis? Do you see the making process or are there other consequences to that? Do you have a cause for that, I think? It's also just a logical understanding that you know what you're going to get out there. It also drives me to be aware that that's a blank side of mind. But that is a classic sentence, but any photo taken is caring too much. They have to be ruthless about it. If they try and please everyone, they'll end up pleasing nobody. They're going to receive the organisation you suffer on. But you've got that kind of system in place, and you've got to keep you honest, and you've got your reflection and so on. So that's that's the art. So now I'm going to speak to this, this is what I did when I went on to go next, which is 2020. Somebody asked me today, what do you think is going to happen next year? So I don't know, I'm going to talk to you. Did you do that whole orchestrate, that whole question, just for that guy? That's the question, it's a purely... Say, what will you do next year? Because you're in this for the long term. So you've got the long term vision, but what's in your mind for next year? What are you looking forward to next year? And teams, finally, they'll be going through an internally, I can talk to them in order for me to sort in. Some of them, some of them, I wanted to just really kind of hit him off performing, but he wants to kind of get the machinery, if you will, I know this is not a great metaphor, it's human beings, but the ability to do the effects of this, this guy's the limit for us to be able to defend him. There's a lot of things that we keep talking about that I would love to have us to get to now, but we just don't have the capability to deliver. I think it's just diversifying in the space. I think we'll see two emissions happen that we didn't expect between organizations that may have been seen as enemies or frenemies of the past. It's a more bridge building, it's a more bridge building. I think you'll see a continuation of programs like gatherings or regions like this, this year for 20, 2020, we doubled the amount of what we allocated between regions, so we're doing twice as much as we've been reaching in the last couple of months, let me get into 2019. We've substantially increased the amount of budget we've allocated on the guest speakers and bringing it to the right kind of, what do you think we're doing? So, I think it's going to be a good question. But we're at a response, we're going to say that you would likely think that the formal lines would do like they don't want for an economic business or where we're spending quite a bit of time and energy and effort helping to introduce a world that still doesn't really know or still really wants to face with that reality that they have to be able to change. So, we're hoping to reintroduce and introduce sort of new audience in a way that I don't know if other organizations should be doing. I mean, our job is to move the mission and transform it into life and all that. But still, I don't practice as much as I'm familiar with it. We know that if we do that, a future world will have a place that's joyful or experienced and sustained. And so, if I keep focusing on that, I'm doing everything I can and spending a minute to get there and try and investing on research to try to do this and investing and moving the role of a coach in the organization and what it's introducing. We need to kind of have a higher role. But I believe we could give that a... We have a number of other transformations in the state. And it seems like it's probably not 100%. It feels like... Yeah, it's a high number. It's a really high number. And it's got some high policies on why and like to be wrong, but that's the beauty of the talk of such a time. One of my biggest promises that everybody in the world can tell us was, I mean, you just run into the point of a lot of us, right? And many years ago, I was a fairer than a coach. And the tutorial was, but in your past, there was transformation, so something big and modern, right? They presented the last two hundred conferences as a textbook in the states. And they wanted me to have them and I was talking to them about the experience in the coach and they're trying to explain to me everything. And the conversation was just going, put your finger on a little bit, your conversation was about, but something was right. And it was something that they coached for a year, it's like this. And I remember it just being able to stop. So, you were there here this year. So, I think it was one team. Yeah. I think it's probably nine months or something. Do you have another family? No, no, no, it could be. I'm going to talk to you about the children. They went, I'm attending a product call, it was named Steve, and presented as an expert. The last three actual conferences. I said, you've actually never been an athlete coach. And they said, no, Big O2 is coming down the banks. I'm like, have you ever been a scrummaster? No. What was your last job? I was a professional at Mesa. I took water. And then, and so, I connected them with somebody who was going to have them as a six month coach. So, they were very good at the experience. Anyway, one of your peers turned out to be my one. I'm thinking of putting them on a gig in a collage, but that's the end of the experience. I'm just pretty sure of us. That's just, who's really good at the business. And then you take a VP of engineering, but it's not even a thing that's, who has enough power to do this as an asset that you share. It's true. There's been a time to determine if that person has helped. For me, we as an organization have noticed the number of other coaches in 2016, it's two thousand and eight. There is a difference in a lot of real changes on that approach, which is compared to just some of the pictures. And my hypothesis is that it's really good on other coaches. So, the other coaches have put the client at the point of their job, that their job is to help them hire their own adjudication estimation. That the coaches are giving them the tools to the system of their own, that system of originality, and those client issues are achievable rather than every time that they're calling themselves an advertiser, every time they're calling themselves a company, calling themselves advertiser, is selling a three-step plan for a two-step plan. And I'm afraid that if somebody doesn't step up and help, they approach better for some thing. More information will fail, and so will be the plan. And some new version of Rob's three-year revenue stay coming up, and it will be the new thing people are moving to, the next step. And you will know, I don't want that to happen to my body. That's good. I think what's really wrong is the difference in my real notes that I understand that nuance between consulting and coaching, that they know that the client's best interests are members, so it's just not going to be like that. I believe that we can help that and sustain a particularly handy organizational state. Should I get off the sofa? That's good. It reminds me of a joke. Did you imagine you have a joke? No, not a joke. That's the one thing, no. In a course I ran recently, someone asked the question, what's the difference between a Scrum Master and an Agile Coach? And I was working with Jem, who's a training coach, and then he said, at the moment, about 300 pounds a day. That's the difference. It's like you said, if I put that on my job description, on my CV, it gets me in at this level. Scrum Masters are in a moment down here. So it is that complete misunderstanding of it's just an all-to-attractive job title that carries no credibility, not credibility in the world. I'm not saying that, it's that there's no actual... That's who's jumped through there. There's no credibility behind what... That was two words. Yeah, yeah. And you can hire someone, like you said, that's never actually... Are you going to prove it? Yeah, are you going to prove it? We've tried a bit of research recently to help show the difference. I'm hoping some of my great coaches that are out there will amongst our managers, pay studies for them. Is he leaving the building? I don't even data this data. I don't know that we have it all right now. We're going to get some data, get some data, and some stories. That's something I have to drink, too. I'm sure you can. Cheers, Howard. Small talks. Cheers, everyone. See you soon. Sure, we bored you.