 Drink up five minutes don't have to go home you can't stay here Actually don't go home And I even the dog is even on a play date next door. Oh, wow My dog just yeah, it's so rainy here The show is not as much of a stalker. They see it. He used to be he's you know, he's eight now though Yeah, I can't stop at that age. I know I So other thing that's different probably from the last time is we have these little quick hits thingies before that I saw yeah, so I like that fast fast fast. Okay We can have little one-line reactions and stuff we want. Okay. It's all good Anything else No for me. I'm excited. Thanks for letting me, you know dive bomb on to the show. Oh, no, it's great Yeah, if anybody is expecting John Wilpert from IBM, we will have him on But he was under the weather so we had to reschedule but he is excited to come on So we will get him on a future Wednesday. Molly is always is over the weather. So let's do this That the opposite oh, I said a bad word to the patrons. No, well now we're live Oh good. I'm glad. I just said it to everyone. I whispered it. You mean ducking? That's all you said, right? Yeah, yes, I did I auto corrected myself little duckies. I just saw three cute little duckies walking by and coming home from school See the mom Yes, you're right Why are they laughing? Good We could just start seems like we're good. Yeah Everybody good I'm on this rainy day. Yes one second I go with the bus rules like the bus can come up to five minutes early if it's posted time. Oh I guess but someone's gonna do I mean I tweet it already Yeah, yeah, everything's good. All right, can I can I just brag on my kid for like two seconds before? Oh, yeah, of course he just started taking this like official like going to this official after-school theater program and He found out we get yesterday. They got their assigned parts after last week They auditioned and he's playing Aladdin in Aladdin Oh you guys oh boy great so excited you've created a monster in the best That's great he's Jasmine Well, that's what I said. I was like do you have to kiss a girl and he's like Jasmine is like a second grader Yeah When you find out who the girl is you should look at her like a big tall mom and say he will show you the world That's creepy a Or I'm sorry creepy ad Oh my god, okay, you would like to start the actual show here we go. Yeah. No, that's fine. We were still early. So yeah Onward and upward here we go hilarious Would you like someone to spend hundreds of hours a week reading tech news and tell you the best parts support daily tech news show at daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the daily tech news for Wednesday, February 8th 2017 I'm Tom Merritt Scott Johnson alongside as he is most Wednesdays. How are you Scott? I'm good Wednesdays are great I love them especially because our guest today is great and we love her Oh, yeah, absolutely If you were expecting John Wolpert from IBM to talk about the blockchain that will still happen Unfortunately, he was under the weather. So we rescheduled him which made way for an amazing Molly Wood Appearance host of APM marketplaces make me smart and many other things. How's it going Molly? Surprise. Hello. Don't ask me any questions about blockchain. We won't we probably don't understand that except that IBM guy Exactly, that's why we need him to come on. We're gonna talk about 5g today, which is almost as complicated as the blockchain But like what does it actually mean and when will we actually get it all that kind of stuff? And also going to revisit the topic of zero rating and net neutrality because Molly got to talk to Tim Woo recently I did I'm really excited about that. It's half plug and half Half a chance to do all of the geeky conversation that I didn't exactly get to do on our podcast All right, let's get to it a couple of things before we get to the top stories Elon Musk said on Twitter Wednesday He hopes to start selling Teslas in India this summer. Good news for you Indians. I suppose The E3 video game trade show will open its doors to the public this year It's sheer size would have suggested that was happening before but it was not 15,000 public tickets We'll go on sale on February 13th, and they will start at $150 to try on all those gross VR headsets Everybody else's touched. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you're on today because it's someone to commiserate on that one issue There's that is the data point. I always come to when they open any video game stuff to the public. So there you go Apple hired former head of Amazon Fire TV to be its head of Apple TV Product marketing. We'll see what comes out of that. Will it be? Oh now I can't remember his name the guy who did the fire TV commercials. Oh Oh We'll be that guy. No Joker hood. Hey, let me am I on battery makers Samsung SDI reported a minor fire Broke out and this is the part you won't hear in the headlines in its waste Depository in northern China. It was quickly extinguished the factory didn't catch on fire from making note 7 batteries Although it's probably likely that the waste depository was full of no 7 batteries I'm just saying it got the rejects. Yeah Now here are some more top stories Google officially launched Android Wear 2.0 Wednesday the LG watch sport and the LG watch style are the flagship devices They'll launch February 10th with Android Wear 2.0 your existing watches At least several of them will get the update in the coming weeks new features include standalone apps Which helps you if you're not using an Android phone You can still install apps from the Google Play Store on your watch and still use it with your non Android phone You usually it's an iPhone Android pay so you can pay with the NFC chip in your watch and Google Assistant So you can talk to your watch and ask it questions Just like you would with Google home or with your phone Android wear also features a keyboard that uses predictive text and Tech crunch and gadget and the verge all said it works surprisingly well on the little watch I'm surprisingly surprised at anything like that working surprisingly well But I do like the idea of it And I also just like the idea that Google is you know slowly chipping away at the wearable market Nothing too crazy. Nothing too insane. Just nice changes nice improvements It's more and more a platform that I find myself interested in Hmm Just uh-huh. Just that was my most that was my most skeptical. Hmm. Yeah, give me all of that sounds great But not very mainstream. I'm just saying where has the wearables market gone? Yeah, well, exactly And Google made a big deal of a 70% jump in in Android wear sales in the holiday period But that's a jump from a very small number to a slightly higher small 70 more people I mean It's it is not yet there None of these features in all of the reviews I read seemed like the big feature that's really going to make you go Oh, now, I know why I need a watch. They are refinements There's some cool things you can do with the watch faces as far as adding any kind of data from any app So if you're already in the camp, these are great improvements that make the watches even more usable But Molly you hit on it. I don't know who's Moving into the camp that isn't already there. Yeah Yeah, I mean, I'm wearing a Fitbit and I have no desire to move to anything else right now They still have yet to offer me the killer the killer app that'll make me jump and get interested So we'll see if it's them or not Pinterest launches lens. That's right. LEN Z or S rather a Search engine that uses machine learning to be able to look at real-world objects through a smartphone camera And then it finds similar stuff on Pinterest posts the beta lens tool is available in the Pinterest mobile app And is rolling out today in the US on Android and iOS My wife is stoked Does Microsoft have to sue them now because it's basically hollow lens, but for Pinterest No, I know I actually I think that sounds awesome And I want that for all things in life Not necessarily to find them in Pinterest posts, but to find them anywhere Like that sounds amazing Google has an app right and I don't I haven't used it forever But they had an app or part of the I maybe it's just part of the Google search app now But on iOS you could take a picture of an object and it was best To find out what that was and then give you places to buy that thing or places where it could be found or descriptions Of what the thing is and it never worked very well. This sounds like that to me I know and then the question is how well it's gonna work although I do think that I think it solves probably one of the biggest barriers for of Pinterest use which is finding anything Well, I feel like I'm being really negative today, and I don't mean to it's just that it's super rainy and I'm just mad Yeah, yeah, I don't want to be but no I mean that that to get to be able to have a tool like that would that would allow you to get directly To the thing that you want to find on Pinterest is actually awesome because I think Pinterest has a little bit of a usability issue And if that works, I'm totally gonna try it. Well, and the idea of like hey, I really like that sweater What what is it? Where did it come from and I can I can do link to that? That's the one they keep using I was thinking about it for food. Could I could I look at a dish and say hey? Can I get you know like I'm at a restaurant on my recipe show me recipes that are similar to that like I don't know if it's quite that good maybe but That's what Right we want to say Yeah, I want Shazam for everything it is interesting that they're also using the sweater example because I think that the buy button Experiment for them has not been as successful as they hope like they really want to try to reframe Pinterest as a Commerce platform because that's how they're gonna make more money in the future Well, and that's the other feature that they added today was was easier shopping through through pinch it Pinterest Cha-ching a company called brilliant Sorry, I didn't mean to yell that so loud into the mic, but you have to that's a game That's how why they didn't Brilliant has developed a smart light switch for people who don't want to reach for their home every or their phone every time They want to control a smart home device the brilliant control is a small 5 inch 720p touchscreen tablet It has Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and it is meant to be installed in place of a light switch You swipe up for on down for off right or left to control dimness tapping brings up other options for controlling music or other connected devices And and this is key. It includes Amazon voice services for voice control as well pre-order start today It's a hundred and ninety nine dollars with shipping scheduled for summer and I Just cannot get over the irony that we now have to introduce accessories for the smart home because the smart home It's so hard to use Okay But I just think it's hysterical because I Recently hooked all of my stuff up to my Amazon echo and now I'm like trying to tell it to turn the TV and sometimes the TV won't come on Unless I tell the echo to do it and the lamp thing like I still have to get the phone out to change the color on the lamp And I'm just like why am I doing this? stupid I have a couple life like three feet from the lamp I've had a couple of life ex bulbs forever and it is annoying like it's nice when you're in the other room You're like, oh, I forgot to turn off the light. No big deal. Grab the phone I don't have to walk into the other room to turn it off But a lot of the times you're like I'm standing next to the light and now I have to go over there and get my phone And so yeah having smart Find the app and you know You can you can get dumb switches that are smart and by that I mean they're just a switch that you can turn on and off and it will save the state to your smart home Device so that it you know the way I have it set up I have a dumb I have a just a dumb switch and if I turn it off It turns off power to the life ex which means that it no longer responds to the app anymore Which is why I can't just use the regular switch right unless I just toggle it or whatever but but this Goes beyond like saying oh, we're not only gonna save the state We're gonna be able to add other features So it's it's really easy with the swiping to just turn it on on and off You don't have to think just like a regular physical switch But if you want to start your music or like you said the key if you want to use voice control for things You can do that. Yeah, I mean I want it. Don't get me wrong I just think it's hilarious that it has to exist like we had a hundred ninety nine By solving fixing a whole bunch of things that didn't need fixing right by solving a bunch of problems We've now created a problem that now needs solving with a two hundred dollar Smart switch like this is that this is that that that good jobs consumerism that steep climb To the thing that eventually everybody uses because they work all of this dumb stuff out It's all of us early adopters that have to suffer to me It's like introducing a species into an environment where it didn't originally Happen like a certain kind of bug because that is good for the trees But then you find out that there's a certain kind of monkey that really likes those bugs So they're hanging on the trees ripping the bark off and the trees start to die Well, what do we have to introduce now to fix that like if does feel a little like this remote and things like it are Us at the tail end of our smart things conversations going oh, no We need one smart thing to handle all our smart things totally. It's weird Facebook introduced community help which lets users offer resources like food clothing and maybe a place to stay To those in emergency situations the product is meant to help rescue groups organize their efforts And it will only be available. This is my first question about it to users older than 18 Who have had accounts for more than a few days? I would like it to be more than that But anyway, the feature is launched Wednesday for natural and Accidental disasters in Canada the US Australia New Zealand India and Saudi Arabia with more countries coming I get friend requests from some accounts that are years old that are absolutely bought spam accounts Yeah, I I don't know why I should be comfortable with this yet except I really like the idea of it I'm worried about the actual implementation of it. I Think some verification. I would say are offering a place to stay is a little That's like a bridge too far to offer Let users let me offer resources like food or clothing. I mean, that's tremendous or organize You know relief supply drops or things like that. I think uh When you're starting to get into places to say that gets a little there's some liability questions there that I think yeah Although there to ask you rescue groups do organize things like that So if you could get the rescue groups kind of in the middle vetting people that would be good Facebook is putting up a screen that says, you know, if you're accepting help from somebody Here's how to try to tell you know and try to be safe But yeah, but if your whole house just got washed away in a flood you're not like, okay I'm gonna go through this seven step check Yeah, no, I hear you It's it's it's that balance between Okay Well, otherwise the rescue organization has to do it more difficult. So we're making it easier for them by doing this But how do we make it easier and not make it less safe than what they had before? That's the balance It's a really natural fit with Airbnb And I thought it was very cool that they you know in the wake of the immigration executive order Airbnb was saying we will offer free free free places for people to stay if they have been displaced or stuck in a country as A result of this order and that's a really natural fit because the places are pre vetted Yeah, and so maybe a partnership like that would make sense, but I understand that the frenemy situation will probably not allow it well, and also, you know Airbnb requires you to Use your place and rent it out before you start to build up those star reviews Whereas in a rescue situation there might be somebody's like I never want to do Airbnb But I don't mind opening up my downstairs room for this one case and you want to be able to accommodate that Kind of offering safely as well Finally Google Brain has published a paper showing how to use neural networks to create details from low-resolution images So in other words, you can give it like an eight by eight pixel image and turn it into a full photograph This is a little bit complicated But it uses a conditioning network training the software by going the other direction they downscale high-resolution Images into eight by eight pixelated results to train and then a second network Uses an implementation of the pixel CNN project to add realistic detail to that eight by eight source image and see how close they can get back To the original this is informed by the causal relationships observed in the conditioning network Then what they can do is take an upskate Take an image that's eight by eight that it's never seen and because it's learned how to do this It can upscale it into a regular image upscaled images of celebrities fooled humans roughly 10% of the time in testing Which doesn't sound like much, but it's better than the zero percent that they did before and bedroom images past as real 28% of the time This is the thing we see on CSI and laugh at our Yeah, I was thinking I was like, oh my god, those dumb shows are about to be real I Love that. I am not pooping any of this. Yeah, it's actually pretty cool Bedroom images. Yeah, I that part's a little big But I was I was gonna I was gonna applaud one part of this that is that I love this idea of reverse engineering The process of the machine learning saying here's a big nice image now Let's make it small now Can you remember how to like I almost picture it as like a child learning in a class for some reason? This idea of learning it from the other direction rather than trying to interpret blurry images to start with is super interesting to me But um, yeah, finally zoom and enhance isn't so far fetched anymore Yeah, I mean, it's it's just a room with furniture in it. That's the bedroom images But when you say bedroom It suddenly implies all kinds of things that aren't part of this study 28% of bedroom images people were like, oh, I know what that is If you go if you go to the I don't know what's wrong with me I'm sorry if you go to the Google post on this or ours technical which we have linked has it to you can see like Okay, I wouldn't be fooled by this these maybe and into thinking they were original images But they're not bad like how they go from eight by eight to you know A full picture of of somebody's face that looks like somebody's face is pretty pretty impressive Yeah, I think the government's all over that Hey folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in less than 10 minutes subscribe to daily tech headlines Com now we have a couple of discussions today Let's start with 5g because the big news today is that 3g pp Which is one of the organizations in charge of the 5g certification has approved a new logo to be used on its 5g phase 1 specs Coming in late 2018. They took the green Wave forms from the LTE advanced logo the super advanced logo and put them over the G in 5g. So there's consistency Whoa, it's bad logo. Just want to throw it out there. It's not gonna say you're a design nerd Scott. Does this yeah, it's not good It's basically It's weighted too much on the right. It feels like it's got it's like it's tipping over. It's just kind of bad But it'll do it'll work in a pinch. It's fine now Ironically, I'm still trying to load the image over my 4g connection Which I have tethered to my laptop for today's show because Comcast is here Hopefully fixing my internet once and for all which is ironic because well The discussion But I didn't notice like just this one. It's like no, I don't want I don't want to load it Everything else but I did I got all excited when I saw this headline cuz I was like wait 5g phase 1 specification logo So still no standards then a Yeah So 5g is a little different than you might we always think of it as faster and 5g should end up being faster but Usually what what happens with these like 2g 3g 4g is they're defined by the lack of backwards compatibility They say look we can add new features But only at the cost of not being able to work with the old standard And so that's what they're working on with 5g the main aim is not faster connection but higher Capacity so the ability for more people to connect at once without Overwhelming the network which would even further reduce the need for any kind of data caps also aims to improve device to device communications for lower latency which is especially important for things like internet of things and Theoretical peak speed of 5g is 10 gigabits per second with latency of 1 millisecond and that latency is another thing That's really important They look at 5g as a way to say we can do real-time things over a wireless connection by comparison The 4g theoretical speed is 1 gigabit per second max and of course You never see that in practice and a latency of 50 milliseconds max again You don't necessarily see that in practice in fact average 4g speed in the United States is 19.4 megabits per second There are efforts out there to do something called 4g x Qualcomm has been working on that and with Telstra in Australia, which would be 1 gigabit per second over LTE That is a version of LTE though. That is not 5g The only 5g tests that are happening Huawei and NTT docomo did some field tests which managed to get 3.6 gigabits per second for 5g in a real-world situation So even though the max is theoretically 10 3.6 was something they thought they could do in practice Once you get a full network of people using it It's gonna be a little lower than that so you could easily do gigabit per second on 5g Whereas you have to jump through some hoops like Qualcomm and Telstra are to do it on 4g So it's not as simple as like well 5g will be this fast 4g will be this fast It's all about the range and the difficulty and 5g will make it easier to do faster connections More importantly for more people at once so you don't get that I've got five bars. Why am I not connecting and with low latency? I would say even more more importantly than the more people at once the more devices I think the devices thing is actually gonna be the thing that people get Really excited about with 5g is the possibility of an enabling and look we don't know I mean much like the rollout of the internet if we start to see technology that can support as much as they're talking about that in terms of Like you said speed latency and number of simultaneous connections Then it becomes and I think this is what a lot of companies are really excited about I just talked to the Qualcomm CEO recently and he was saying that what people are excited about is this as an innovation platform This is a thing that they can invent on top of because when you have the capacity To connect so many devices at once and so many people at once then you start to enable a lot more innovation on Wireless networks then currently exists. So is that is it troubling to you at all that we're back in this place though where we're still I mean, it's it's primarily going to be used as a marketing term 4g was used in this way by companies that had nothing resembling the 4g standard yet that use 4g in their marketing That's what they push to consumers and we're now entering a new space where really it's kind of nebulous What Tom just described just is a reminder that it's kind of all over the place and people are doing lots of different tests And nobody's quite sure on the standard. They barely got a logo. That's cool I guess but not much more than that as excited as I am about that stuff I always worry that that will get so bogged down and they're calling everything 5g that nothing is 5g at that point I think you just don't like it because the logo is so ugly No, I mean all of that all of that is a hundred percent true the rollout the actual implementation is going to be way slower than we as consumers want it to be and Unlike 4g LTE when it finally rolled out it like made our phones immediately faster We really noticed that and like Tom pointed out that's not exactly what 5g is gonna do at first And so it's probably gonna feel it could end up feeling even more disappointing in the short term But I I don't know like I'm weirdly very bullish on 5g in the long term as a Connection platform that enables a lot of things that we're trying we're talking about trying to do now That just aren't that like Wi-Fi isn't very well equipped for that that you know Whirl broadband can't accomplish like I think that there's actually huge potential for 5g as a technology It's probably our job to keep it from getting too caught up in the marketing Yeah You know one of the things I did early on when 4g came out and T-Mobile was the greatest Fender here is they called their HSPA plus which was a 3g technology 4g And so I made a point of saying well It's HSPA plus or it's LTE because they've ruined 4g is a term so far 5g has not been ruined though they're skating the line because Qualcomm and Telstra while some people are referring to it as 5g because it's so fast They are saying 4g acts. They're not trying to call it 5g. So good for them. Don't they got burned Don't they really didn't confusion. I think they got burned And I also think they got like there were some FCC or FTC ramifications of promising 4g that wasn't 4g So I think the companies have a better incentive this time to To tow the line also because they don't want to piss off consumers again Yeah And HSPA plus was faster than the first LTE. So I get the temptation, right? 4g x will likely be faster than the first implementations of 5g The other the other side of this too is that you've got AT&T out there saying we're doing 5g tests Well, they're doing pre 5g tests because 5g hasn't been ratified as a standard And it won't be ratified as a standard until at the earliest late 2018 It's not expected to be rolled out until 2020 So there's always that risk of AT&T's 5g not really fitting in the spec and them having to change it And maybe the early equipment you buy because you want to be an early adopter on 5g Isn't compatible with the eventual standard and you might have to get new equipment I mean think what happened with Ymax when Ymax was supposed to be one of the big things and only Sprint In the United States anyway ended up using it a couple places in Japan. So Be be a little leery of the 5g Promotion ahead of the standard as well. I think yeah and be a conversation about 5g on your phone I think that's you know, that is a really good thing to keep pointing out over and over like that's not No, but also 2020 seems to be a coinciding year for a lot of Predictions about what technologies are really going to take off or get a firm hold things like automated driving You know self-driving cars are supposed to be a bigger thing that that seems to be Hand-in-hand with a new connectivity wireless technology that all that benefits from each other So it does feel like a bit of a convergence around the 2020 for this being important to lots of Devices that aren't your phone. Yeah, so a couple milestones infrastructure communication That's gonna have to happen. I think relies on 5g and that is that's a big right It's a big precipitating factor hundreds of thousands of devices communicating on one tower is what they're what they're saying could be part of the 5g connection If you're talking about sensors rather than than full-on phone devices like Molly points out milestones to keep in mind The Qualcomm 5g modem the snapdragon x50 was introduced in October 17th October 17th 2016 So there is a modem that can do what everyone expects to be 5g. It's not actually a standard yet AT&T like we mentioned is launching 5g service in Indianapolis in Austin later this year at a theoretical 400 megabits per second And it's also doing a 4g x like service in other places And that's where some other confusion is coming because they put it in the same press release as the 5g Verizon is testing 5g and plans to market some 5g services in 2017 But as Molly rightly points out none of that's really phone service That's just delivering internet using 5g point-to-point in a lot of cases KT in Korea plans to be the first to deliver 5g to mobile phones during the 2018 winter Olympics And again as a demonstration not as is a fully up-and-running service Yeah, and then are we are we talking about? Are we talking about I mean we always keep bringing this up that it's not hey not necessarily phones We're talking about a world where I've got some sort of box now in In a studio environment that is no longer a router connected to a wired connection that is earthed somewhere to some fiber But instead I am pulling, you know 5g fifth-generation internet gigabit speed internet through the air and that's the internet from now on like that's very intriguing to me because that's what's intriguing to me too and that and that I mean that's part of the conversation for sure, right because It's somewhat Potentially the only way that we will actually solve the rural broadband Last mile issue and by rural broadband. I also mean developing world like there's a reason everybody's investing in internet from space or You know balloons and drones that beam down internet from the sky like is there a possibility That 5g could be robust enough and easily deployed enough to become a replacement for wired broadband internet Yeah, maybe The the fact of the matter is a lot of the 5g implementations do use fiber as their backhaul And they think they attach to the end so that sort of confuses the conversation sometimes But that said it's still wireless from there to you even if it's attached to that fiber at the end and Google is playing around with its own version of the 5g spec. Hopefully it won't try to fork it for its flying Wireless internet connections Facebook is doing flying wireless internet connections So yeah, I mean the the fact that you can use fewer nodes like the the nodes being in multiple capacity Is great in urban areas where you can say hey the node won't get Overwhelmed because we just can't put any more in it's it's too dense But it also could be great in a place where you're like we can only fly one node around So we need to serve a lot of people on it well And it could be I mean the way that like the way that Facebook and Google or Google in particular is implementing it by building a huge fiber ring Right in one rural area and then essentially hopping it out wirelessly using either solar powered planes or or balloons There's no reason that that that 5g then can't become What's the end result of those actual flying flying thing the jiggers now the other thing about this So crazy that we talk about this by the way like I just want to go back to pass me and be like Really? Yeah, the drone idea still seems crazy to me the idea you gotta have persistent flying objects to maintain internet is crazy to me but Now what we do now right? They're just satellites It's even weirder that they're in space if you think about it It was it's it's more 19th century technology to use a balloon We talk about these massive MIMO multi and multi out nodes that are being used in 5g where they can get at the very least 16 antennas on Transmit and receive For dense areas one of the effects of that is You don't have to throttle When we talk a lot about data caps and usage-based billing we point out that it generally doesn't help congestion could because congestion Happens at a particular time so maybe this won't change that But there's even less of a justification because the wireless networks can rightly say hey our nodes get Congested a lot faster than wired networks nodes do And and a lot less predictably because people are moving around this would ease that and It is stated in many 5g prospectuses that this would eliminate the need for usage-based billing in order to ease congestion That would take away the need for zero rating and we talked about zero rating on Monday Molly you got a chance to talk to Tim Wu who has been actively following the net neutrality and zero rating and all of that Yeah, what's your response to the FCC in the United States? What's what's your thoughts on them saying? You know what? We're just gonna let the marketplace take care of zero rating Yeah, by the way, I mean it not for the first or the last time at Segway Freakin masterful What segway to get from 5g net neutrality is like the man has a gift You know, it's really interesting that we I think that so we had this whole long conversation about net neutrality on our new Make Me Smart podcast Kyra's doll and I yesterday and then we talked to Tim Wu and we asked him what he thinks about You know that the new Republican led FCC under edged pie, which is has not yet tackled the the likely to be very thorny situation around title to reclassification of broadband as a utility but You know wireless was already Essentially exempted from a lot of the net neutrality regulations that were put into place under Tom Wheeler's FCC Zero rating was probably the biggest loophole of all which said there are certain services. You can exempt over wireless For whatever reason right and and what we have seen play out in the marketplace is that they're using it for purposes of competition So been John, you know, whatever Verizon's nine thing is called Streaming you services that you really want for free. I I would argue that zero ratings still so what I did pie says He stopped investigations into zero rating because he said consumers really like it and to me That's like that Sure, they love it But you know what like India didn't like it when Facebook tried to use zero rating as the thing that it used to shove Facebook down The throats of the developing world and so I think there's a very real and outstanding question over whether zero rating will continue to be The big Trojan horse of wireless net neutrality or whether 5g can actually Technologically solve that problem and and that to me seems like a pretty big claim like the idea that because what we've said So far as wireless networks are fragile and they require more Baby sitting that's been the reason that wireless networks have largely been exempted from net neutrality rules and we've been talking about this for years Tom and I They're baby their baby networks and they need more management It Will 5g networks really need less management or do wireless networks as they exist now actually need that much management? Like there's two questions happening there. Yeah, well and with the zero rating The the one defense is that hey We we need to put a data cap on you because It costs a lot to add capacity And that helps us manage congestion and that is largely as I've said been busted But there is a legitimate Need for managing capacity on nodes. So there's a shred of truth to it on wireless It's not the best way to manage the congestion But there is certainly more of a congestion with 5g It's like yeah, they're fragile and there's still still need to babysit them But it makes that capacity management much less of an acute problem And it really does take away that argument that was used in the open internet guidelines this time around And honestly when it comes down to it to me, it doesn't change the zero rating thing at all Because I don't believe any of the telcos if they tell you they're doing zero rating to manage the congestion on their network They're doing it simply to monetize the network and make money off of it Yeah, I mean they're doing it simply because it is a way for them to justify continuing to charge you tons and tons of money for data usage And so the way they can do I mean clearly they don't need to do that much management If they can provide all of this service streaming for free And I know that there are ways that they're compressing those streams and even netflix and youtube have complained about it But the fact is they're basically saying and with every move that team mobile makes Every other carrier has to meet them and as they continue to meet them They basically just tear down their own arguments right for zero rating. It's like, oh now we're streaming this now We're streaming espn now we're streaming football games now You can get the live 24 hour c-span filibuster feed like you clearly don't have a data problem You just want me to pay more I uh, so can I throw us this is my analogy and you tell me if i'm wrong It feels a little like somebody has got a knife and they cut my arm But then say well, we have a band-aid for that And I keep getting their band-aids and I have to pay for the process of them continually cutting my arm And giving me a band-aid to cover it in other words a little bit like protection money or something Hey, look, we know you like johnson and johnson band-aids because your name johnson Uh, but we've got this other company medfirst that's paying for the band-aid So if you use the medfirst band-aids, they're free. Otherwise you got to pay for the band Right, well, and that is that is not only is that a supremely accurate metaphor That's exactly the problem like consumers may love getting netflix for free or youtube for free or spotify for free On their wireless streaming plan But they may never know that there is a service out there that is better than netflix or youtube or spotify Because it has no competitive advantage It has not been chosen to be the free thing and therefore it cannot thrive in a competitive truly free market competitive environment And that fundamentally is the that is the net new that's the reason that zero rating violates net neutrality principles Was being investigated as a loophole that may be needed to be closed No matter how much consumers liked it because ultimately is free candy and free candy isn't good for you Well, what t-mobile was doing was different than verizon and at&t t-mobile said will zero rate and not charge Because we think we'll make the money back with people wanting to use our network because of that It's it's a backdoor to unlimited But now t-mobile has just gone and said well, we're basically just going to make things unlimited And we're going to emphasize that Verizon and at&t are looking at it as a way to make money and also prioritize their own service So we're going to we're going to exempt our service and we'll charge people too And a few people are paying for that But it and at&t is doing the same thing with direct tv now I feel that we have Just enough competition in the wireless market that it's holding them back from abusing it even more I also don't love the idea of the FCC which is going to blow with the wind as we're seeing Depending on which administration is in charge being the arbiter of what's okay and what's not I would prefer there just to be a hard and fast standard Or if the government is going to get involved get involved in encouraging more Competitors to join the space so that I as a consumer can decide I'm going to go with the company that does things the way I think it should be done Yeah, I totally agree. That was one of the I mean that was one of the reasons that the title to reclassification, you know, that was like That whole situation under wheeler leading up to the title to reclassification was a was a classic case of that escalated fast Like I don't I actually don't think that full title to reclassification was what the market ultimately wanted Because like you said it creates an atmosphere where the fundamental regulatory framework of the internet can be overturned by the next guy And so we definitely need to come up with something that's a little more lasting. I just hope that zero rating is not It doesn't continue to be a Trojan horse under that framework as well Just because we like cutting scott's arm. It's new listen. It's like free Also stop hurting scott. It's like free suckers at my dentist. I still have to pay five grand for the crown Thanks for the free sucker. Like it's not really another cavity Right even better. That's a you know, there's your scenario. There's your metaphor use it freely everyone. Yeah, we're all suckers in the end. I get it Hey everybody, thanks to those of you who participate in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show reddit.com It definitely helps us decide what kind of stuff you're interested in us talking about There were all kinds of zero rating stories all over the subreddit all week long Real quickly before we get out of here Another not a reverse pick of the day like we had the other day But a question mic in weirdly warm Atlanta says regarding the use of password managers Which do you guys and gals prefer? Are there any cons you have found in using them? Well, the cons in general are The risk of putting all your passwords in one place and if that place were to to get breached People would have access to all of your passwords. So that that's always the downside to these but I have to say that for my part last pass Has been very good at being transparent when they've had issues fixing them fast and providing an auditable way For people to look at them and say yeah, no, they are doing good encryption and good storage processes One password has been very good as well Key pass is a really good one K E E P A S S If you want to run it yourself if you're like, you know, I don't want to trust some third party at all I want to encrypt it myself on my own servers that I control Downside there is if you're not very good at managing the servers, you could open yourself up to a breach But but that's a personal taste. I'm curious if either one of you guys Have a preference regarding password managers. I like one password a lot. Um it's uh Just so easy and I and I and I feel okay about all the security involved and I like The platforms it's on and I like the control I have over it It's just enough and not too crazy or not too much to manage me running my own Key pass server of some sort Sounds like a nightmare because I just don't think I would be very good at doing that In the way it should be done. I feel like I feel like everybody who thinks they're really good at I mean some people would think there would would be better at it probably are better at it, but maybe not all of them um I also use last pass and although I have thought about switching. I've heard good things about dash lane and one password I think is better at filling in Passwords on ios. Um, I've just been with I've been using last pass for a really long time And even though I know it's not that hard to switch. I just I kind of don't want to I have shared passwords with people Um, you know where we use the same account And I like that I can share a password with them But they don't ever see it and I do I I trust the encryption that they're using to store my passwords So that so that even were they to get hacked the Hopefully the hackers would only encounter a repository of totally encrypted passwords and not be able to do them Do anything with them? And I think they're probably like Most people aren't going to do Two-factor authentication most people aren't going to do the sort of secondary things that they should do So the single best security hygiene practice that they can start with is just not reusing passwords So I'm I am a huge proponent of password managers for that reason Uh said your picks to us folks feedback at dailytechnewshow.com you can find more picks at dailytechnewshow.com slash picks Uh, and that's it. Uh, thank you for a wonderful episode mollywood. Oh my god. I'm so glad to be here. That was super Great and fun as always that was excellent remind folks again about make me smart because they should get smarter and you and kai can help them Yeah, we have a brand new podcast. We've only done three episodes. It's uh, it's called make me smart You can find it at marketplace.org slash make me smart. It's been super exciting We're trying to take topics in business uh technology and culture And recently some politics but not a ton of politics mostly trying to take a thing that you're hearing about in the news And understand it better much like this show does um In a smart and balanced and hopefully thoughtful way and we love it and it's we've had a successful roll out But we are currently this is important. This is a note from our producer jenny. You know jenny Oh, yeah, this show has an excellent producer as well as excellent hosts. It does. I think you know her when jenny does it And she's like, uh, maybe remind them that we're being chased in the itunes ratings by a podcast called marketing in your car So we could use all the help we can get Yeah, get in there and review make me smart. Uh marketplace.org slash make me smart scott johnson I think tell folks before you're out of here Well, just that I listened to make me smart this morning and I loved it and really glad it exists So people really should check that thing out. But if you're looking for more of my stuff It's really easy. Follow me on twitter at scott johnson or better. Yeah, go to frogpants.com Just redesign the site a lot easier to get around and find stuff. So go check that out and uh, of course my twitch channel twitch.tv slash frog pants Thanks to everyone who supports the show if you don't support it yet Ask yourself this was today's show worth 25 cents to you because if you pledge $5 a month, that's just 25 cents a show And you also get a patron only rss feed with exclusive extra content And a weekly news update written by me with a recap of news and an exclusive column So go sign up at patreon.com slash dts Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern at alphagic radio dot com and diamond club dot tv And our website is daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with justin robert young dr. Then Who is part of the frog pants network? Get more at frogpants.com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this brover Good show Dude, i'm so impressed with my 4g lte connection, right? I mean this whole thing happened. I am tethered to my phone. It's not even like this is bananas I'm i'm so impressed at the beginning of the show. I kept waiting like, okay What i'm ready, you know in case something craps out with molly, and then I forgot I just forgot. I forgot on it. Yeah, I remember I saw the like sweaty, you know fear in roger's eyes And you know, I shared some of it You know, I didn't say any of that You might have assumed it I read it. I read it with my intuition in your face. Who needs 5g? All right. Well, what's up in your face? What about some titles? Oh We have a sweater of things The sweater Enhance it's finally here the segue master strikes again this time at 5g speed Wireless networks are special snowflakes Uh freeze rotate zoom focus and enhance Actually, you know, it's funny is because when I when I when people talk to that I think of a blade runner back when decker takes that photo And he's puts it in the low machine or a photo Oh Yeah Creepy as duck 5g 5g whiz 5g by any other name doesn't go 5g whiz I appreciate the stop hurting scott one. That's pretty good. Stop hurting brilliant 5g now with 16 percent more in hand Now you tried to cram all the stuff No, no bedroom images really nothing There's a bedroom image behind me Don't encourage them Or is it Fair enough. This is poor you guys you should I wish that I could I should just turn this camera around this poor Comcast guy. It's like up on he's up and down the pole It's like pouring rain out there and he's just like, oh Oh, he's doing his job You know people who work for companies owned by Comcast like Fandango Are pretty awesome Tom is it pouring right now or is it just like rainy rainy not like It stopped pouring it was pouring it here. Is he in a yellow slicker? That way in case something happens you can His booties for when he comes. Yeah, when he goes sliding down the hill because Hilarious, okay, we're off topic. Yeah I thought you wanted 5g whiz But creepy is duck and wireless networks or special flow snowflakes are at the top of five each I'm not I'm not feeling the snowflake situation personally 5g what is what 5g it's tom show just saying 5g yeah 5g whiz I mean It's Good I'm not knocked out by any of these titles today. No offense people as many titles Tom's not knocked out. Let him be let him be we're all suckers My mo ways to make money Oh my god I Was not winning don't ask money about blockchain is just good advice let alone a potential just don't even yeah, or me for that matter 10% is better than 0% 5g pixelating boudoir images It takes uh, it takes interpolation to a whole new level really Like what is this brown? What is this brown mishmash of pixels of tan brown pixels and it's creepy as duck is great But it was pre-show so You just what are of things is it's pretty entertaining That is yeah, it's something there. It's two separate topics, right? Yeah, the Pinterest thing and then there's a mashup I mean that's not the worst thing but Just suggest we had a really cool conversation about connected sweaters which in retrospect. I wished we had but we did right Well, I'm gonna pencil in 5g whiz Okay, do you think I have mom here today if if you guys get struck by inspiration before I'm done exporting them Who says you have mom here? I just feel like I have mom here today. I was just looking at it But you are a mom and you have hair. I feel bad because I didn't risk chat I didn't risk the chat over the 4g so for the chat room. I'm sorry I would have loved I would have loved to join you, but I didn't want to tank I didn't want it. You know, I was managing. I was managing my fragile baby network Yeah, you didn't want to overload your capacity at 4g. Exactly. Exactly. I'm impressed. I don't mind I'm too. It's still going now. I'm just pushing it. I'm gonna you know, it's gonna I'm just gonna go Well, yeah, now it's no risk, right? Yeah, I'm just gonna say you made a plan you're gonna get closed or something I was lost cocky about it. I'm like, yeah, it's totally fine. I'm like, I better go Yeah, no, if you need to go that's I totally understand. I mean, I have no idea actually so I'll just hang out because I don't know Although I guess I will be so super sorry if the com guest guy like takes down my internet for days Oh Yeah Wait, yes take on for days I don't know you just they're trying to we think that there may be a mystery splitter Hidden somewhere in the walls Oh Oh On the signal like I thought that it was just a faulty box, but it's been I've had issues Since you moved in or just recently? No, pretty much since I moved in there's like always some because nobody knows where the cable goes from behind the tv because the The whole house was like custom Yeah, redone by the landlord who is a really nice person but But you know was short-sighted in terms of maybe didn't think about the internet as much. Yeah. Yeah I I had a similar situation with comcast in san rafael and that house we rented up there Where the guy had to come out and go up and down the pole and test a bunch of things and finally he tracked down What was causing the the line issue? Yeah, no, that's exactly and it's been happening for two years basically aging networks. I guess Yeah, and maybe a mystery splitter, but the last guy who was here was like in all the walls Like I had to let him into my closet in the back All my cables are underneath the house, which is good But only one's connected the guy who lived here before the folks who lived here before He just drilled a hole in the corner of the floor of each room to drop in like coax You'd even it wasn't even through the wall where you could put a plate just through the floor Through the bottom of the house. I have a hole I have a hole like that in the in the corner that goes to the bottom Which I didn't have to fill with like I filled it with shower silicone cock because like ants were coming in I'm like, are you serious? That's what's causing the internet problem. The ants were bringing you the packets They have brought a lot of packets like just enough with the rain enough All right, I am gonna go in case of the now I've now I've scared myself on the data front, but this was Fantastic. Oh, yeah. Thank you so much. This was great. Molly You guys are a babe. You guys are a babe. Yeah, you're the best. Yeah. All right. Talk to you soon. All right. See you later. Adios amigos Maybe she's being um, uh, zero rated. Maybe she'll be okay. She's being rated at zero. Yeah. Oh, that's what that was it Yeah, we were just we had you down for zero internet Why would I pay for that All right, I guess I'm going with 5g whiz All right, I couldn't think of anything better either. It's hard hard title day I feel I feel bad like you know bad weave came up with a good title here. I don't mean to diminish it It's a fine title And it's the winner I was trying to think of a good song that had five and you could put g's in it I couldn't think of one ain't nothing but a 5g thing Jackson 5g's I couldn't think of anything There are five g's you could have done that That are five g's It's probably one of the it's my third or fourth best episode From the next generation. It is your fourth favorite. You have to stick with four Um, it's when the what's his name takes command that guy comes in what's his name the bad guy from robocop takes over to the enterprise is As the temporary captain of the commanding officer in the show. Uh, yeah, uh, ronnie cox the actor Yeah, and he uh, he says like He scolds dea and atroi for being out of uniform because she's always wearing lounge wear He was uh, he played doctor. He played captain Jelios or something. Oh, yeah He was also a Beverly Hills cop as the uh, please chief chief guy and on on die or on um, not The one on mars, uh Final or total recall. He's the one that died at the end with his face getting all bulls dead on the surf But he's great because um He's just such a jerk on almost everything except for Beverly Hills cop everything else. He's a total weenie bag And you hate him But he made a huge career out of that Being a weenie. Yeah being a weenie, but um, I liked him. He was cool. He was in he was in that Um, what's the one with the hillbillies and the in the banjo? Beverly hillbillies. No, uh, deliverance. He was He died. He was a deliverance. Yeah Ronnie Cox was a deliverance It's really really old version of or a very younger. What else is you I've seen him in something recently I mean, yeah, he's been in everything. I know but like recently I saw him In something I was watching was the one where you took over the enterprise that that was the the two-part borg one Right the lecutis of borg deal. No, that was the one where no was it? I thought that was the one where um The car was captured after they tried to uh, break into a secret, uh, cardassian Bio bio lab or so that's the four lights one Isn't that that one maybe I'm gonna look He's also still alive And lives in new mech or was born in new mexico nice Chain of he was a true detective Um, you're right. He is the executive and true detective. Oh, no way. That's what I saw him in. Yeah Uh, the new season or the first season the first season 2015 season Oh, man. I why don't I not remember that? That's weird cat-a-last executive Um, you're right. It's chain of command It was a two-parter and it was the one where picard was being held by the cardassians and being tortured You're totally right He was in a video short called robocop villains of old detroit Oh, he was starving sg1 too. I totally forgot about that. Yeah, he's you'd see the vice president So many things. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, he's been in everything. Yeah, he was a real butt And oh, yeah, there it is the deliverance. He died in the river He was on dexter He was in cop rock Sayin elsewhere. Wow Spencer I forgot about Spencer Spencer. Oh, yeah That's that's a Star Trek connection because Spencer had that character hawk who became Man called hawk in his own series who then became Uh, commander sysco on deuce face night. All right All right, it's like a little out of deliverance is one of his first gigs So only the fourth credit on my mdb It's seen elsewhere and he goes way back. Yeah Remember him as George apple on apples way No, neither nope Can't say as I do he was in the life and times of grizzly adams as an unwelcome neighbor. All right That's his credit unwelcome neighbor. That should be his credit in all his movies. Yeah, it's kind of his what he got typecast as He's in taps. Yeah, he's been around Ronnie Cox Ah, the great Ronnie Cox. He was the 80s villain man Many the man you love to hate Yep Gee that puts him in what like his 80s 38 because when he was born, yeah So I was sad about Richard hatch yesterday. I just saw him it Saw like fan fest comma comma whatever it was last time Oh, no kidding. Yeah, he came he's it. He's every con I've been to including star trek con vegas. He's been at those He's at all of those things and even though he's yeah, he was he was tireless in going out and Promoting battlestar galactica. Yeah, he just seemed really great with his fans and just yeah a good guy I didn't get to meet him But I've seen him at several cons even up close just you know coming and walking around hanging out with people I shook Q's hand once. Oh, yeah Yeah, he wouldn't um He wouldn't take I had 39 of the 40 dollars that I needed for a Portrait. Oh, and he wouldn't take it. He wouldn't take a dollar. No, do you remember him from screensavers tom? John Delancey No, uh, Richard hatch. Oh, yeah from yeah, definitely. Oh, he came on there. That's cool. All right He came on this was before the sci-fi reboot and he came on talking about sort of Creating an internet version of reboot. He was involved with some books. If I remember right He was he was instrumental in getting this comic book started. I'll start collecting. Yeah Do do do but he played What was his bio cow says uh for cord killers spoiler in time after we're done with justified we should do cop rock cop rock I remember that show did did even last a season I don't know Pop rock. Oh my gosh Recently Yeah You're right your detective in 2015 It's something called married Hmm Yeah, it does seem like he's slowing down a little bit which makes perfect sense. Yeah Cop rock for autopilot No, man, I don't I don't I can't stop it just one cop rock Yeah, deliverance was his first or sorry third movie fourth movie stone cocks runny cocks runny cocks I'm gonna sell by soft Oh, he's so young in it You know, we should do another season of autopilot and just do spin-off series Like hawk Yeah, that'd be fun called hawk and after mash We totally should we like the running surely Yeah, I I I would want to go for the more like the less successful spin-offs. Yeah Do eat us What was the one what was the spin-off the two spin-offs from uh, three's a company Two's a crowd or three's a crowd and the ropers. Yeah, the ropers. Yeah We Joey or tellies from from cheers Yeah, with cheers you have one very successful spin-off, right? And then one horribly unsuccessful spin-off. Yeah, and I'd eat us from uh, the boots of hazard is a great terrible spin-off Yeah, well when mash you have trapper john md as a is essentially a spin-off. Yeah, you know, it's a different actor Uh, and it was very successful But after mash was after mash was bad and and the hidden the one that never made it But the pilots on youtube of walter, which was the radar spin-off And it's terrible Like terrible. Oh my gosh, like a barely stomach and I watched it with my daughter because we were in the mash hardcore a few months ago She'd rip through the whole series and then wanted to watch that only guy In the movie who who crossed over to the tv show? Yeah Wasn't there one? No, he is the only one, right? Yep, there might have been somebody in the pilot that crossed over but he was the only one that stayed. Yeah That's another person who died father molkehi actor died Oh, yeah That was a big mash fan growing up Yeah, I'm into it Uh, I guess you can't do all the law and order spin-offs That shows been a crack of that that shows been longer than most Like institutions Jamie far about that lost spin-off that's it. No, I'm just found Yes, it was just jack as an alcoholic in la I started watching colony. I like that Oh, yeah, it's still on it's coming back. I saw yeah, I got a couple episodes in but I really I don't know. I like it and also I'm a little irritated that Um, we're you and I are the same age as as uh, what's his name? Sawyer Uh, after whom our dog is named. Yeah, and it bugs it bugs me that he continues to look like he's actually growing younger while we're Yeah It's because he made a deal with some unholy Uh, probably yeah The portal opened and He's struck it unholy bargain He shook hands with an observer tentacle and Is that all in there the old ones? Yeah, one of the old gods You know, did the old gods even provide things like that and I thought they just kept you alive I don't know depends on which old gods the world of warcraft ones are you got to shop around Yeah Fine the old god that works for you my priest told me he got a shopper route To tulu to tulu for tang for tang So william christopher wane rogers Mike Mike ferrell harry morgan. No, not mike ferrell. Sorry mclean stevens and larry lindville Oh my gosh, the guy that rides Sydney freedmen all those people on mash have died I don't know I don't remember the brady brides Oh, wasn't there a spin-off of the brady bunch where it was just um Oh, they put this rolling stone article that tvz got linked to 10 worst tv spin-offs includes caprica, which I feel is unfair It just didn't it didn't catch but it was pretty cool. It wasn't it was crap horrible. Yeah, I didn't think It just wasn't nearly as good as That'll start relaxing. Well, it was such a different It was such a different angle and I mean it almost would have been a better show They just started with something fresh and a whole new concept and just said This doesn't have to be set in the palace boat the next wave. That's a good one. Yeah, but that's not really a spin-off is a reboot Is that a thing? No That lasted for more than a season like two seasons Is there uh, what mary tyler more spin-offs there were a couple of them that were So like so like the one for Um lube grant was successful But it was weird that it was a comedy laugh track three camera thing before and then he leaves on his own show And it's like a full-on drama Oh, well, you know, this is actually they did have a spin-off of the original bow star galactica bow star galactica 1980 Yeah, that that one fits battle star galactica. That is a horrible show. It's literally they combined chips With like a pi show and then they just do some elements about us our galactica. Oh my gosh Hello, larry a spin-off of different strokes With larry as an old army buddy of philip drummond Wait, which one's larry? mclean stevensson joey The tortellies joey, dude Flow we could watch flow Oh gloria was a spin-off of uh all in the family. I didn't know that one Yeah, that show had a lot and some were very successful like jefferson's was successful and there was there were two Oh, sorry. I'm responding to another jay martin. I think there were two babel on five spin-offs. Oh joining loves chachi I was actually was fairly successful wasn't yeah, it's on the borderline You could you could you could categorize it either way? I think it it had an audience for a while And then it just went downhill really fast. I think There's bevel on five Cusade and then bevel on five Beverly Hills Bunts This is a spin-off of hill street blues Really? Yeah, and it's it's bunts that the guy, you know the guy with the mustache goes to bevelly hills The brady brides and joey loves chachi's top of this list Maybe i'm wrong All right. Well, we have uh, we have successfully published the show Big thanks again to molly wood and we'll be back tomorrow with justin robert young Not a spin-off