 Yes Okay, I think we can start. Hello everybody. Welcome to the last session of Saturday. It's gonna be really a personal one. I was thinking a lot about actually doing it or not, but I gave it at another camp and it was a good experience to give it. So it's about my experience. So it's a lot of things that I'm gonna show you that really worked for me and things didn't work for me. It doesn't mean that they will immediately work for you, but I feel we are not sharing enough experience in other stuff really than Drupal. So we're sharing everything about Drupal, but we're not sharing enough about other things like what it means to run a company, what it means to be a CTO, what it means to be a business owner. So my name is Michael or Schnitzel. It should be a map. It's not really visible, but I kind of live in Zurich in Austin and in Cape Town at the same time. So our company has three different locations and I'm the group CTO of AMAC. So we have three different locations in these places and I'm the one that flies around and makes sure that all teams are happy, makes sure that the locations know of each other and stuff like that. So you can find me in a lot of different places. One short intermediate thing. You maybe saw people walking around with these team schlitzels or there are also some batches over there. So there's a reason for that, not just because I like to print. So there is a director-at-large position at the Drupal Association Board. So the Drupal Association has a board and two of the board members are voted by all of you, the community. So these are called at large and every year we vote for a new one and on Monday the next voting starts. So it starts on the 7th of March and I'm one of them which runs for the board. If you want to know about it, why I think it is important? What? No, not at all. There's more by the way. Yes, so if you want to know why I feel I would be good to represent more European or actually more a global person because one of the reasons I think right now is there's too much Americanized. We have a too much Americanized Drupal Association. But please go on the board. There is a page with a whole candidate profile. There's also video recordings of where we talk about whatever. So it starts on Monday. So inform yourself and please go voting. It's for all of us to represent of us at the board. That's now. Let's go to the other interesting thing. So I started in 2010 at the Macy. I was the deputy CTO. So there was somebody else that did that. I started at only a Macy labs. We were six people at that point and we had two developers and one of them was me. So we really bootstrapped from the beginning. There was nothing big there. And we were only based in Zurich. So everybody was working in Zurich. We went sometimes in different places, but Zurich was where we had the office and stuff like that. And we did Drupal only. So they built websites only with Drupal and that. Fast forward. Yes. So there was a CEO, there was a coach manager, a designer and a content writer. So we were a really mixed team and stuff like that. Fast forward five years later, I'm no longer the deputy CTO. I'm the group CTO. And we have two companies which provide two different services. The Macy labs, which does the Drupal part and the Macy metrics, which does the analytics and marketing optimization stuff. We are 35 people as of right now. We have 20 developers where I'm not one of them anymore. And we have three different offices, as I said. We have offices in Zurich, in Austin and in Cape Town, South Africa. And Drupal is not the only focus anymore. It's still a really big focus, but having another company like Macy metrics, we are not only doing Drupal. So that's my history. That's where I came from. That's where I learned all my experience. So and I would like to tell you now, in specific things, what I learned in each of them. And basically, what I would like to do is really sending my myself a letter with that presentation that I'm doing five years ago, or four years ago. I think that would have helped me a lot. So unfortunately, you cannot time travel doesn't work or not yet. Maybe we are going to start the company that does that. That would be cool. But it's really about my personal experience you will hear about the first of them hiring. Basically, if you want to grow, if you want to serve multiple locations, bigger clients, you have to hire. And over the past over the past years, I hired a lot of people and I got a lot of experience. One of the biggest one is definitely higher slow fire fast. And it is especially for us really, really important that the people that are working for you every day match your culture, match your team. And if you realize that they are not, you should really, really be up and getting rid of them. One thing I learned that as that I've been told multiple times, and I never really understood, never agreed to, if you add one more person to an existing team, you will have a completely different team. It's not the same. It's not the existing team plus one. It's another team. They will behave different. They will act different. They will be different. So that's one thing. And that also means you have to give the team time to adapt to a new person. You have to give the team to understand how does the whole team now work. And that requires time. So you cannot just add and remove. It's not a Drupal module that you can just enable or disable. It's unfortunately not. And one thing that I also learned is, if you hire because of pure need, you're too late. Because you will make decisions. Because you need that person, you really need, let's say that backend developer, or you really need that approach manager. And then a person comes and it's maybe not a really perfect matching person. And you're going to hire that person because you really think you need that person. It can be really dangerous. And that happened to us multiple times. I know it's really hard. How do I hire if I don't even know what I need yet? It's, of course, it's really hard. But we just try to think about, okay, who could we need in maybe a year so we can already start looking and whatever. And another thing that I really realized is open your vision where you're going to hire. And that's, we're going to see more about that. Right now, we have a really, really strict and quite long hiring process. And at the beginning, we were really fast in hiring, we said, like, okay, you, you look a person that would fit, and you live in Zurich, you have a bit of trouble, let's start. We could do it completely different now. The first thing we do is we do interviews. So the person comes in either via Hangouts or via face to face. And we just do an interview with maybe the CEO or the next the member or the manager of that person. And it's just going to be an interview where we talk, where we explain what the Macy is, where we want to go, why we need that person just talking. And if we feel that that person fits, we're going to bring them at the lunch. So it's really important for us that the person meets the team really fast. That the team sees as well, who are we hiring? Because we're basically hiring for them. The team itself does not hire the people because they have other stuff to do. So me as a manager, I'm hiring people, but I'm hiring them for the team. So for me, it's really important that the team meets them really early. And we at the Macy, that's specifically to our company, we have lunch every day together. Everybody goes out, grabs lunch somewhere, brings it back and eats in the office. So we have like a kitchen part, and we bring people there. So it's really important that they see how we do things, how we, how we behave as a social group. So they get go to a team lunch. And then we also do a skills test. And that's mostly at the same time. So we tell the people, hey, come in at 11, we're going to introduce you we're going to have lunch together and then we do a skills test, or however we do it. But I want to see what the person does. And that's one thing the skills test is one thing that I was thinking a long time about, oh, it's way too crazy, it's way too hard to set up a skills test. It is, it is definitely hard to set up a skills test that really, that you can test out like DevOps, like front end, like back end or whatever. But it's the only time that you will actually see that person working, what the person will do later for you. So if I could tell myself in less time in making a skills test, and if you've done it once, you can reuse it. Like we have now a skills test for front end, we have a skills test for back end, we have a skills test for for DevOps. And we let the person work. And they already see they see how we work, they see like if they are not used to Drupal, they have to work in Drupal, because I want them at the end of the day, saying, yes, I want to work with Drupal, especially in front end, we saw a lot of people that say, I'm really good in JavaScript CSS and HTML, that's great. But they have to work with Drup well. And just working with Drupal is a completely different situation, especially with Drupal 7. It gets much better with Drupal 8, but it's still. Then we do more interviews. We have small teams. So what I want is that everybody of the team sits with that person together and does an interview at least half an hour, better an hour. There is no topic defined. The person can ask, they can discuss whatever they want. It's just from a personal level that they can say, yes, I like that person, I would like to work with that person. Some employees of mine, they have a list, they have 10 questions, they ask these questions. Some others, they just talk about life. They go out and walk with them together. I don't want to give them specific topics, but I just want to let them having time, because at the team launch there are 25 people sitting there. So you don't have the possibility. And we also allow every employee to tell themselves, I want to do an interview as well. So there are some people that will work with that person all the time together. They have to do an interview, and others they can if they want to. And then it's a team's decision. It's not the decision of the management. It will, it is at the end, it is the decision of the management if it's possible in terms of money, in terms of strategy and stuff like that. But we want to first know from the team, would you like to work with that person? And we asked them two specific questions. First, would you go with that person to a beer? Is that person, somebody you would like to hang out? Another question is, for example, what you can ask is, would you spend with that person, or let's say, imagine you're flying together at the Drupalcon, and you have a layover somewhere for one hour. Now the second plane is delayed. And you have to spend six hours with that person at the airport. Is that experience? Is that thinking about that, spending six hours with that person? Is that a good or a bad thinking? Because if it's a bad, it's probably not a person that they want to really spend time with. Then you can do it more Swiss style, because we have an active military where every man has to go, you can ask them, would you go to war with them? I think we can choose that. So that's another, but it's really those questions like, it's not about would you work with that person? Because then the people start to think about their skills. And they say, yes, because the skills that person has is really important for me right now. So I want to work with that person. But that's not actually, yes, they maybe want to work with them for two weeks. But ongoing, if they don't like that person, after two weeks, they will say, well, you know, the skills are really good. But I just don't like to be with that person around. And there will be eight hours per day, they will be in the slide sectional, they will review that code, they will sit in the same room. So it's really important. So we let the team do the decision. And one other thing that I've learned during that time is take notes. Because the person is really involved in a lot of things. It can be that at the end, the team says no. And imagine you are somebody that applies with us, you go through all these steps, you have hours of interviews, and at the end I'm telling you, no, no, no. That's it. And then the person will ask, yeah, but why? So you have to, and I feel, we have to provide that person reasons why not. And that you can only do with taking notes. So if we expect from a person to go through this whole process, I feel that person can also expect from us, we telling them why we feel that person is not good. And you can only do that if you take notes. Because the whole process can take multiple days. And especially if you have multiple people joining and coming at the same time, you will completely forget why, what did you say at that? So everybody that takes an interview has to do, has to take notes that we later on can also argue and know. Or argue a yes. Because sometimes the people want to know why do we think there's a good person. One other thing I said before is about the vision. So where do we actually hire? Of course, job platforms, jobs.org, that you maybe have a local one, whatever. But you also hire on Twitter, Facebook, Stack Overflow. We hired multiple people via Twitter. They sent us, hey, that job profile sounds really interesting. So we got them in. Even one of my people that I just promoted as a tech lead, he saw a job and he tweeted us and said, you know, that would be a really cool job, but I'm not up to it. I'm not experienced enough yet. So I said, doesn't matter, come in, we have a meeting, I can teach you skills. I cannot really teach you character. That changing a person's character is really hard, but I can teach you skills. So we hired a person, one of the best employees I ever had, applied via Twitter. And he actually said, I wasn't really sure that if I should tweet that now. Why should I tweet to a company saying, I don't think I'm the right person? But it worked. You have friends. Tell your friends, you have family, you can hire from family. We have multiple situations in our company where two people work with us. There are a couple. It works. I'm not saying it doesn't work. It's maybe a bit more complicated. But it works. We are not specifically against hiring somebody from family or so. You go to events. You show yourself. Your people represent yourself at triple camps, triple camps, wherever. We specifically send people around and tell them, talk about if we have a job opening. So basically, you're hiring all the time. There is no situation where you're not hiring. There is no situation where you're not representing yourself when you're wearing like a hoodie of your company when you're giving a procession or whatever. And it's also not you as the manager hiring. It's the whole team hiring all the time. So and that is one thing that I think I could have done better in the past of just thinking about like where else could I could I hire? So let's say we hire the person and it is the first day. The first day comes and that person comes in. One thing that we keep really, really high is the first day. Everything has to be ready. And I really talk about everything. So we have a blog post written on the first day when the person comes. We have the website ready. Why? What I want is that person goes home on the first day, goes to his family, his friends, opens the website of our company and the person is on the team page. The person is a part of the team from the first, second on. Yes, there is maybe a trial period or whatever. But we have to show that person that it is now a part of the team. We did the worst thing once where it took us two weeks to get a person on the website. And the thing was the person was telling us later on I wasn't sure if I'm like really part of the team yet. Because we didn't publicly say that person is now part of our team. So that thing, the blog post and the website goes on on the first day. It's really hard and I just failed this week. I'm not saying I'm perfect in that, but it is something that I really want to do and I'm giving a lot to make possible. Then also, tech stuff. We have a budget that people can decide their own what they want to use in terms of screens, in terms of mouse, in terms of keyboards, in terms of notebooks, whatever. But it is ready when the person comes in on the first day. So I feel the first day is again the first impression you do to the person. It is really important that that person when he comes to the first day that we as a company make a good expression. And if you wonder how that looks like it looks like that. There was Maria, she started a couple of months ago in Amazalats, Austin, and that was her first day. It's basically Christmas. And please don't unpack the stuff. There is somebody, there's multiple people hired at Apple that think about the unboxing experience of the products. So let them unbox it. If you unbox things 10 times a year because you're the manager call, but that person, yes, the first day will be completely unproductive. But it is a good experience that person will feel welcome. And you see, we're not only giving them tech, they receive a backpack with a macy, they receive t-shirts they have sometimes they even have their business cards ready on the first day. And that's just something because that person did a huge step. That person decided to change companies to go out in the wild to go to a team. So the easier you make it for that person the first day, the better. Firing to be complete honest is one of the hardest things that I did. And I'm even writing fucking hardest. It is really, really hard. So one things that I learned about firing. First of all, you as a manager will not know all the things that's going to happen in your team. Even though you say, I'm part of the team, I'm sitting there every day, you will not know everything. So the team, you have to listen to the team. You have to listen to them. And one other thing that I learned, and that's specifically different cultures in if you have companies in a lot of different places, there are some cultures in the world where a person, even though that she does dislikes work with another person, if you ask that person directly, she will tell you first, all is fine. So it takes time to realize what's actually going to happen. And we had cases where I went to a team and I talked to them. And they told me, I asked him, how is everything going? All is good, all good. I learned that that evening, while being out with the people and just hanging out that all the employees were searching for another job. So and in the morning, when I came there, that wasn't the case. Like it's completely changed everything. So it needs time to understand what is really happening at the team. And if you realize that something like that happens, figure out what is the problem. And in that problem, in that case, it maybe is a specific person. Maybe it is the office that is not good. It can be a lot of different things. But in that in some situations, it is a person. And then what I learned, it is really important to define clear goals and deadlines with that person to save that person together and say, hey, something is not going good. And most of the most of the time, that person will also know that, that there's something. And then what we do is define goals and deadlines to say, okay, we want to make it better. We want to, we're not immediately stopping at that point, but we define clear goals and deadlines that a person also knows, okay, I have to improve on specific areas, whatever it is. And one other thing, if you define that person, let's say, let's say the problem is time tracking. The person is really bad at time tracking. And you define for the next two weeks, I want to see time tracking every day good. Every evening, time tracking is done or whatever the rule in your company is. And now the person does it half of the time. You could say now, well, the person never did it. So it's 50 percent better. You know, it's better. But you did not reach the goal. Because what you will do then is you say, okay, let's do another two weeks. You give them a second chance and they improve 50% again. And they are only at 75%. So one thing that I definitely is like just a baby step is not a reached goal yet. If you define a goal with that person expect that. And if the person does not reach that, don't say yourself, don't lie to yourself. And I did that myself way too much to lie. Yes. Yes. And it's not specifically about I mean, we fired people after two years because it didn't go well or we fired people after three months because. So in Switzerland, there is legally that within three months, you can fire a person within one week. So then the notice time is one week after that, it's three months. So it makes a huge jump. So the first three months are like the trial period. And there you look specifically, okay, is it working? And I feel if the person doesn't fit, you will realize really fast. What what is there is just that people were like in a new position and that didn't work out or stuff like that. So in firing overall, don't wait too long. Why? Or you can ask yourself, how would you feel if that person is gone? Like one problem that we had was that we say we want to be nine o'clock in the morning, we want to have a stand up. And everybody has to be there. And one person is was late all the time. There was only one of the problems. But that was one, because it didn't fit the team. It didn't work. Every time that person or not every time, but a couple of times and I, I was really like, and at one point, I really asked myself, because every day in the morning at eight 59 when I opened my notebook to prepare to stand up, my back of my mind told me, is that person going to be late or not? It's like a constant thing that like kept me nervous because I wanted that person to not be late. But it could happen and it stressed myself. So I was asking myself, would I be happier if I don't have that thing in back on my mind? And I waited so long that I had to say yes. So that told me, okay, maybe it's time to discuss and stop. And one other thing that I did not realize, let's talk about the getting too late to the office in the morning, because you have a specific time. Your team is suffering as well. It's not only you, your team is suffering. And suddenly, your team is saying, well, if that person can come too late. And if that person gets can do that for over six months, because I was sitting with that person together and say like, you cannot be too late and improved, and you cannot be late and improved, and you cannot be late and improved. But it never was there every day. The team told me, well, why should I come at nine o'clock? And suddenly, you're not having one problem, you have 20 problems, because all of them. And then you can fire the person, and you also have to undo all the stuff that the other people just said, what I can do that. So one thing that I completely forgot is that it's not only you suffering, it's not only you realizing these problems. It's the whole team also, and they'll start to adapt to that. So they get also sloppy. Everybody was coming suddenly at nine zero two. And maybe it's not a big thing for you, but in Switzerland, that's two minutes to live. You will miss a train. Okay, let's go on careers. So think about careers pass. And that's one thing that I did really bad. And because you hire people and they're really happy with their jobs. And then it continues. So and not only focus on leadership, so you can grow a person into a lot of different areas. Maybe they are not interested in in leading a team of 10 people after five years. We I have cases where they come specifically tell me, I'm interested in growing, but not in leadership skills. I'm like interested in growing in other stuff. So that person is like now is like, I'm responsible for teaching new people for onboarding or something like that. So there's a lot of different ways on where your employees can grow to but think about them, generate a plan, give people opportunities. So and also, ask the people what they want. So we do a half year reviews with employees. And I specifically asked them, like, where do you want to go? What is your goal? Where do you? And one other thing is also be clear about rights and duties. Like if you promote somebody, make sure that when that person signs that promotion, that they know what their duties are for that new job, but also make sure that they know what their rights are. Like for us, a team lead, which is in a higher position, has is part of the management. And therefore, the work time in Switzerland, we have 42 hours, they actually have to work then 45 hours. It's a legal thing, whatever. And that came up at one point and everybody freaked out because they didn't know. I never told them. I knew because I was in that position already, but I completely forgot to tell them. And not only I forgot to tell them, I also forgot to tell them about their rights as the new, because now they can hire people, they can define their own tools. Like we have a front end lead, and he defines its own tools. He defines if you use Gallup or Compass or whatever. So it's a right that that person has. But I, as a company, also expect some duties like if we have to finish a project, you're maybe the person that's gonna stay longer. So be clear about what you expect and give to your employees. And one thing that I have to definitely tell the best job will be boring after three years. It's I saw it for myself. I saw it with my employees. It will be the case that even you are to have the best job after three years, there's lacking of challenge, lacking of new things. And so be ready that your employees can follow a path and know where it's going. Delegating the second fucking hard thing you will do. So who knows about the 70% rule? Who has heard about that? Huh? 8 or 80, 20, 70, 30, whatever. So I read that because I realized I have to delegate more because I was working 12 hours per day. Didn't work out. And it works out but not for long. So the 70% rule or the 80% says 70% is good enough. If something can be done by somebody with only 70% of where you could do 100% it's good enough and you should keep the tasks that 100% require. So I read that everywhere. And that's like that's how you should delegate. And I was trying and I was trying it did not work out. It doesn't work because I I didn't realize one thing. So I did not I knew that I should delegate, but I did not realize why I should delegate. And let me explain you. So let's say you have two tasks. You have task A and the business impact is medium. Whatever it is, it can be implementing something, it can be hiring somebody whatever, but you define that's a medium thing. And now you have a task B and that business impact is an Excel. So it's really, really important like trying out to play it and figuring out that you should use it or not. Or whatever it can be anything just something that is more important than the other thing. But you only have time to do one of them. So now there's a 30% chance that that person that will take on task A will fuck it up. That's 70 30% only give them 70 percent 70% is good enough. So there is a chance that it's not going to work out. But if you give that person or if you let somebody do the test A because it's less important, if you the task B that you will do that will require 100% and that you will do hopefully not fuck up, but it protects like the impact of the not going well task A is is less. And one experience that I did is like project management. So should I give like I'm getting a client and I'm introducing them to the company and everything and we start working together. And then at one point I'm realizing oh I cannot approach management anymore. So I give it to somebody else or should I do that like no I mean I don't want to lose that client. So that's the task A and the task B is hiring or finding new clients. So I rather give my existing client to one of my employees and I will maybe lose that client. I will maybe lose it because 70 percent. It's not 100% there is a chance, but I can focus on task B which means getting new clients. So if I get two more clients because I did task B I can protect the task A with that or I can handle that. And that's what I'm using now. So it's still the 70-30% role or the 80-20 or whatever you want to call it, but for me now it makes sense why should I delegate and also the other thing it will happen. It will happen that tasks are but how did you learn to reach 100% you fucked up. It is part of learning to fail but then to stand up and continue walking. Allow your employees to do that. You can protect them, you can mentor them, you can coach them, but they need to realize that how it works in getting up. And one other thing that I also that showed me after I started doing that you don't know yet what other tasks are waiting when you start to delegate. It took me time to realize that when I had time to think, to reflect myself, to reflect the company that I realized that I have to do some specific tasks that I would have never seen before because I was so deep into working and doing giving 100%. And that can be all kind of stuff. You will sit and you will not get bored. I can tell you that. If you delegate, you will not get bored because there's new things coming in all the time. And one other thing that we started to do is a fail take. I said before failing is good. So one thing we do is we do a fail take. If somebody fails and we do that specifically in DevOps, so the DevOps team, if somebody fails, it's perfectly fine, you have to bring a cake. So that's the seed set H1 cluster fail cake. So we fucked up the cluster. It was down for 10 minutes that it shouldn't have been. And we brought a cake and all is good. We're not doing the mistake anymore but everybody knows that we also failed. So don't try to cover up the failures because it will be part of it anyway. Next thing, documentation. Let's say you do one task, one once a year. I'm doing the whole thing since five years. So I did tasks that I never documented five times and every time I have to figure out again how I did them actually. So I'm asking myself, how can I prevent to explain or do or do something anything a second time, even though it's maybe only once a year. So think about five years if you talk about documentation. Write down things that you do because that will allow somebody else to do that. Automation, find good tools, find tools that allow you to focus on the things you should really do. Like in our case, we're not having our own mail server. It's not our part of our business. So we're having somebody else that works for the mail server and we're doing the focus stuff. And write your own tools if this is maybe necessary. But what I learned is let tools define your process. Like we have a billing process right now implemented in three different locations that no tool can handle because we created our own billing tool or our own billing process. So now we have to build our own billing tool because telling 15 people how the new process works and the whole change management around that, I feel is way harder than just building your own tool. But if you would have chosen a billing tool before, we would have started with an existing process. So that's something to think about. So these are all the tools that we use. The slides, by the way, are online. You don't have to take pictures of it. We use all kinds of stuff. So we have Google Apps, we have Macs, we have Slack, we have GitHub, we use Browser Stack, we have New Relic for servers, we use DNS, we have Dropbox, Chira Compliance, we have Google, find your tools, try them out, introduce them to the team that will make your life easier. Next, focus. Define who you are as a company and focus on that. And think about possible costs if an opportunity comes. Like, let's say you're at Drupal Shop and we had a case where a company came to us and said, we would like you to do an annual report. And we don't need a CMS for it because we just need HTML and CSS. So we decided we're going to use Kirby, which is the PHP framework, static text in there, everything. And now every, and it was good. At that point it was a good decision, but now we cannot deploy it because everybody knows how to deploy Drupal, but nobody knows how to do Kirby. And then we think, oh, wait, how do we do backups and how do we do that and how do we do that and how do we do that. So at that point it was maybe a good decision, but on the long term we're getting rid of it again. So, yes, the first day is the first impression, something that from the other slide, sorry. Next thing, be flexible. Don't oversleep trends. The web is changing like crazy. Focus on what's happening. Try out new things. Try out new things as your own. Try out new things as a company. You might need it in the future. Like frontend, there's every new, there's a new JavaScript frontend every day. So try them out, figure out which are real work. And what I've learned is that if you are a flexible company, it will generate you flexible teams and flexible employees. So if you show that you're flexible in the way how you work and adapt, they will do the same on their side. If you are completely following one path and say, no, I'm not doing anything at all, they will do the same. And sometimes there will be situations where you need a flexible team because of any reasons. Then, we all talked about company stuff and how to be yourself in terms of people and hiring and firing. At the end, it's still you doing the whole thing. So what I try and I'm failing, but I'm trying really hard to sleep for at least six hours. For myself, try it out for six hours, but if I sleep less, I'm maybe not really asking on the next day, but I'm realizing it days later. The next, drink. And honestly, drink a lot. I tried a lot of tools that tell me to get up on the computer, like that automatically locks your screen and say, like, you should walk around, whatever I disable them, say this later. There's no way to disable your body. There's no way. You can disable a tool. What? No, plain water. There is nothing. Yes. Okay, sorry. Consume water then. Drink water. It's actually one thing that we say in our office, there is no water, drink, or if people want to drink sweet stuff, they have to bring it themselves. We do not provide water. We do provide beer, though. There is the fridge, there is one section that is only reserved for beer. No, drink, really. It helps, and it's really drinking having the bottle on the table. What we also try, and it really works, is having a slack bot that reminds you, in the Slack channel, says drink, and you hear the sound of the whole team, like, and also, what I realized, moving your body helps you to think. So there's a lot of times where I'm thinking in front of a problem, and I'm sitting there, and I have to pee, and I'm saying, like, I want to fix it, I want to fix it, but you're not, and you're getting up, and you walk three steps, and you have to solution. And also, find something that relaxes you, and it can be really everything. What I do, I shower every morning. I shower every morning even though I have to stop the six hours rule, so if I can only see five and a half hours and can still shower, I do that. Because showering in the morning helps me, personally, to think about my day, what I'm going to do, what I'm not going to do, or maybe anything, it can be watching a favorite TV show, going to run, whatever you. Just find something that relaxes you in a time, in a short amount of time, and gives you to think. Then also, one thing that I definitely started way too late is get a coach. Get some or a group, or whatever. Get something that you can talk about, these things. There's a lot of times where I have a big problem. I don't know how to handle that. He asks me, I should just tell him, and while I'm explaining him, I see the solution myself. It's weird, and I'm trying to do myself, I'm trying to do shower or whatever, it doesn't work. I have to explain it to somebody else, and then I realize what the problem actually is. It helped me to go through a lot of different things that we just heard. I want to remind the people that you talk with each other and explain, so find other CXOs, whatever of the same level, and talk to them. And really make sure that there's no blaming happening in the group. And one other thing that I learned is be reflexive. Do presentations like that. Maybe to yourself, tweet about it, blog about it, think about what you did, and what I do is to do it once every week. On Monday morning, I was thinking about the last week. Do I still like what I do? Is it something that I want to do? What I did last week is something I want to do this week. And sometimes I said no, because it's too much. And it has nothing to do with the amount of stuff I worked, or I maybe worked 80 hours a week and I said, yes, they're going to continue that. If it's not about the amount of hours, it's not about the amount of time. And if you never ask yourself the question, you will realize way to that. Yes, I'm now done. Yes. So I'm done. So I just want to recap. So first, take notes during hiring will help you. Second, don't forget you're hiring all the time. The baby step is not a reach goal when you're trying to fire. And your team is suffering and will get sloppy too. The team, you don't know yet what are the tasks are waiting when you're delegating. They will fuck up. The best job is boring after three years. A flexible company gives you flexible teams. Think about five years when you're thinking about should I document that right now or should I just do it. Let tools define your process and be reflexive. That's it. Do you often hire people from outside of Switzerland to do that? Yes and no, it really comes on to the situation. I'm trying to hire people that know Drupal. But like right now in Zurich specifically, we're having a really hard time. So we're actually hiring people from outside of Switzerland that move for us. Because being a team of 20, we are not going to be having a lot of resources to teach people. So I would like to be bigger. If you are bigger, you have a different structure of costs and that would allow somebody to teach like somebody else. 20, we don't have that. So we are right now still searching specifically for Drupal. But that's probably because more back end, in front end, we start to hire people that don't know Drupal. We tell them on the first day what they will get into. So it's possible and they will kind of dislike on what they will do, but I will also tell them that if Drupal really gets better. But it is possible, I think in front end more. In the back end, at least for us right now, it's not bad. Other questions? Always striving to learn new things and stuff. Do you pay the public personal development plans? Or do you have signed work plans? So the question was if we have a specific plan for employees to learn new things. So specifically reserve time for themselves? Yeah. Yeah, we are trying to do that. So we are having a thing that we call home work time that is reserved. And to be also honest, we are failing a bit because we have really, we have employees that really want to get projects done. So they say, no, I don't want to learn that now because I want to finish the project. So you kind of have to force them a bit. But what we are doing with so we are using scrum, so what we are doing is just injecting internal tasks into the scrum teams that somebody of the team has to do. And that can be stuff like research angle or JS too. But we also, we definitely have employees that do it themselves and others you have to force a bit more. So what I am trying to do is mostly creating actual projects where the people then have to learn on it. So let's say we do an internal project, we maybe do it with a new tool that nobody used before so that they also see a reason why they now should implement or research something because a lot of times you just tell them to look at all the chairs frameworks. The outcome will be a bit hard. Do you select your clients with the same rig that you select yours to have? Yes.