 Ukraine to Maui. Okay. And we are joined by two Ukrainians, Latvina Bukai and Igor Chopa, her father. They are in Maui and we can talk to them here on Global Connections. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech. I'm so happy to be able to talk to them. Hi, Vlad. Thank you for coming on the show. Hi, Jay. And would you say the same to your dad? Igor, thank you for coming on the show. Tell him that and see what he says to you. Thank you. Thank you, too. So, Vlad, tell us how you got and when you got and how your father got and when he got to Maui? Me, my mother and my daughter, we arrived in Maui at the end of January. And we arrived here as tourists. We had an intention to stay here for about five or six weeks. That's what we usually do when we visit the United States and our friends here. My husband and my father, they arrived later. A flight out of Ukraine was supposed to be February 24th, which is the first day of war in Ukraine. Their planned initial was to stay here in Maui for two weeks and then all five of us or our family was supposed to go back to Ukraine at the beginning of March. I'm glad you didn't go back. It would have been a hassle. So now, can you ask your dad what happened between the time you left Mikhailov and the time he left Mikhailov? What was happening in Ukraine? What was his experience there like in that period? You left at the end of February. What happened between February and the beginning of the war? During February and the beginning of the war, there were no special events. It was not clear whether Russia was ready to take military action or not. The news showed that Russia is supporting LNR and DPR. During that period in Ukraine, there were some news, but there were no specific news about the invasion. There were a lot of news about trainings that the Russia claimed is to be as training all around the Ukrainian border and also that they are planning to support the DPR and LNR, which is the Donetsk National Republic and Lugansk National Republic, which is on the far east of Ukraine. Most of the news in Ukraine were concentrated on just these two topics. So you guys were in Ukraine in the 2013-2014 revolution. You were in Mechalaya rather than Kyiv, but can you describe what happened in that period of time? What happened to you and what did you hear was happening in Kyiv? There were various meetings of people who were going to the revolution of 2013-2014. There were a lot of people against it. At that time, there was a capture of Crimea. And a lot of people came out for the return of Crimea to Ukraine. Since we are close to Kherson, Kherson-Kryma region, the main events were related to the capture of Crimea, as well as the bad actions of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions. I thought it was a little bit of time, because it was not clear what would happen next, what would happen next, so it was a little bit of a mess. At that time, when the revolution came, there were people who were supporting the revolution. There were people who were not supporting the revolution, but if we talk about the south of Ukraine, where we are located, and we are located very nearby the Crimea peninsula. All the actions that were concentrated in the south of Ukraine were all these concerns about what was going on in Crimea. People in Ukraine wanted the Crimea back. No one was expecting that the Crimea would be annexed. I don't know if that would be the correct word. So everyone was very concerned, and a lot of people didn't know what would happen next during the revolution. No one knew if it would be calm or worse, what would be happening right after the revolution. What did you and your father think about the Russians, based on what happened in Crimea, based on some of their other adventures in Syria and the like? And with Chechnya as well, were you aware of that? What did you think of the Russians? Of the Russian army, you mean? Of Vladimir Putin and the Russians. What happened in Chechnya, Syria, and all the actions of that kind? We believe that this is not a fair action. From their side, it is a pure capture of the actions of Russia about these countries. Crimea is, I think, the Ukrainian territory, and they shouldn't have been captured in any way. The actions in Syria are also perceived as terrorist attacks on the Syrian people. We think that these actions are unlawful. The Russian actions are unlawful to interfere, invade into our country because we consider Crimea being Ukrainian. Also, we did know, of course, we follow the news about the actions in Syria and in Chechnya and then actually some other countries too. And we do think that most of the times it's just the invasions, which is just unlawful just by its definition. Can you ask your father how he got from Mikolayev to Maui and what challenges he had in making that trip and why he left and when he left? Can you ask him to describe his journey? On the 24th of February, at about 8 a.m., he was already heading from Mikolayev city to Odessa International Airport and at this moment already we got the information that the invasion into our country has started and that some of the cities of Ukraine were attacked, had missile attacks from the Russia side. So by the time they got to the airport, to Odessa International Airport, we all got the information that all of the airports of Ukraine were blocked and they were closed. And that the sky over Ukraine was closed for the passenger airplanes. So he and my husband, there were two of them, they made a decision to go to the Moldova border because that was the the closest way and they crossed the border and so the next plan was to go to Chishinau International Airport in Moldova and fly to the United States from there. Okay, go ahead. On the border with Moldova, we had already crossed the border for several hours and on the way to Chishinau on a bus, we already found out that the sky in Moldova was also closed for the flight. And the decision was made to go to the center of the city to find a way to cross the border and to fly to the center of the city. Well, due to our being, due to the fact that we've been in constant connection with them, we were trying to give them the updates and the news because no one, at that day, no one really knew what's really going on and how long it's going to be going on for. By the time they almost reached the Chishinau International Airport, we found out the information that the sky, the air over Moldova was closed too. So there were no airplanes coming in and out to Moldova also, so there was no any longer point to fly out of Moldova, there was no possibility to fly out of Moldova. So they just had to go into the city and try to find the next way out and how to do what would be the next steps. And so the decision was to go towards Romania to Bucharest and fly out of there. So they were able to get to fly out of Bucharest, Romania to Istanbul, Turkey. And from Istanbul, Turkey was a non-stop direct flight to San Francisco, the United States, and then from San Francisco to Mali. Wonderful. Does he consider himself lucky? He managed to escape all kinds of problems, he managed to get out in time. Had he stayed there, we can talk about what would have happened. But does he consider himself lucky? Do you consider him lucky? Do you consider your husband lucky? For us, everything is fine, but I still worry about our relatives who stayed there. This is a double feeling, I don't know how to explain it. But for us, I am of course glad and grateful to the first-hand family of Barclay and Kessie, that it turned out that they insisted that we were able to stay here in a safe place, far from the explosion and the hell that is happening in Ukraine now. Yes, he considers himself lucky because they made this way and that seemed to be a perfect timing, even though no one really timed it that way. He has these mixture feelings because on one hand, he is happy that he is together with his family and he is safe here and he is very thankful to Katherine Barclay, who has also been in contact for all these long ways to the United States and that they kept insisting that they should make it to the final destination, which is Maui at this time. That is the family that is hosting us right now. A shout out to them. Yes, and on the other hand, he still has very sad feelings because we still have the rest of the family in Ukraine and we worry about them every day. Do I consider my husband and my father lucky? Yes, I basically didn't sleep for more than two days because it took them about three days to get from Ukraine to the United States at the beginning because we bought the tickets at the beginning of February and the date was February 24th and during buying the tickets, we had no idea that that would be the first day of the war. So when I started to receive the first messages from our family in France that there are missile attacks, my first thought was like, why is it this day? Why didn't they fly out one day before? Because until they landed in San Francisco, I couldn't relax because anything could go wrong and also our men, they crossed the border before they announced the state of emergency in Ukraine, which means that they had a legal right to leave the country. And it was just about five hours later, they already announced the state of emergency, which would make it impossible for them to leave. That was the rule that if you're between 18 and 60, you had to stay and fight in the army? You have to stay and be ready to fight. You don't specifically have to fight right away, but you have to stay in the country. Okay, wow, fantastic. And so now this family is taking care of you. You're staying with them. Do you know any other Ukrainian people in Maui? Do you have any friends or associates there who are Ukrainian in the same circumstance? As far as we know, we're the only Ukrainian family on Maui that is here on these circumstances. During our stay here, I did found several Ukrainian people who are now actually the residents, the citizens of the United States. So they moved from, they're originally from Ukraine, but they moved out of Ukraine 10 or 15 years ago under different reasons. But we're the only ones who are here because of the war on Maui. So, Vlad, what is your plan? What is your dad's plan? I mean, you're in limbo right now. Here you are. The war is still going on. Your family is still at risk in Micolaev. How do you see the future for your family and all the members? So my father says the plan is to live for now and to try to maintain our living here, to be able to obtain the status of staying here, to be able to obtain the ability to have work permission here, to be able to stay here for uncertain amount of time, to be able to afford food and other everyday necessities. If we talk about long-term plans, we hope every day that the war will end as soon as possible and at some point we'll be able to go back home to Ukraine. And I can add from that that for the first month after the invasion, frankly speaking, it was even difficult to plan the next day. You can plan your life when it just ended in one day. Because literally because of the war it just divided into before and after. So it's hard to plan anything for now. We just have to, as they say, go with the flow, I guess. What's your father's occupation? What was he doing in Ukraine? And does he want to get back to doing what that was? It's the same for you. In Ukraine, he was working in an automobile repairment shop and he was managing, watering the parts for different types and categories of vehicles. And yeah, he'd been doing it for a long time. For many years he'd been involved with the car repairment and he would like to continue doing the same when he comes back. As for me, I worked as a travel agent. I had my own travel agency in Mikhailov. Its name actually is Aloha Travel because I just have a long story connected with Hawaii. And so I've been a travel agent for a long time and unfortunately now there's no, the tourism doesn't exist in Ukraine. And sad story about my job is we don't, even when the war starts, it's going to take a while for the infrastructure to be rebuilt in Ukraine and for the people to start traveling again because people would need time to recover after war, to earn the money, but also to have the faith back into the future because what happened to a lot of my tourists is that they left the country, let's say on the 20th of February to go on a wonderful trip, like we did, to go on a wonderful trip to Egypt to the Red Sea and then all of a sudden being away from their houses, they got the news that they just can't come back. So people would be afraid to experience the same thing once again in their life, if that happens again. And same with us, we left the country with just one once in case of clothes and of things that we took with us each with pure believing that we're going to go back home and continue our lives there to continue what we've been doing there back in Ukraine and then just being away from our country, all of a sudden we realized that at this moment we just can't go back. Yeah. So I would like you to help me understand Ukraine. By the way, my family, my family lived in Podolia, Podolsk in Ukraine. Really? Oh, really? Oh, wow. He has a family living in Podolsk in Ukraine. Oh, yeah, we know such a thing. Ukraine is a beautiful city. That's a beautiful city. What makes Ukraine different? Why is Ukraine different than the countries around it? What makes Ukraine special for the people, the history, the industry, the quality of life, the people, especially the people? It's a very long time. They've always been trying to claim their land. And that's why I think one of the good qualities of Ukraine is that it's the ability to fight for its own land. It's not just a coincidence that it's a land. It's patience, it's unity. It's a very beautiful language, I think. And this is what the current war showed now, that the Ukrainian people are very friendly, very strong and very, very love their homeland, their land. Well, the outstanding thing about Ukraine is that historically we've been fighting for our independence a lot of times. That's not the first time today. And it's the people who like freedom. It's the people who fight for freedom and what's weak fight on our land. That's a big difference. We don't try to get a piece of someone's land. We just want to keep our land safe and protected. And that makes people... What's good now about our people in Ukraine is that we're all united in our goals and dreams. And it's also a beautiful country and beautiful language. People in Ukraine are outstanding by our love for freedom. And I can add to that is... I didn't... It's not my words, but I think they really reflect it really good right now is they say if you want to know... The bravery has two colors now. It's blue and yellow. And that's right that the Ukrainian people... We can have some, you know, arguments within the country like every country does. We can have some problems. We can like or not like some things around the world or inside of our country. But all of us are very ready to fight for our land. And all of us are very united in terms of liking freedom and liking just to live in peace. What about Volodymyr Zelensky? Has he been doing a good job? Ask your dad. Has he been doing a good job? Is he as courageous as it seems? Is he a good leader for the Ukrainian people now? How about Volodymyr Zelensky? Is he doing his job well now? Is he a good leader for people now? Yes, I think so. Because, first of all, he stayed in the country, did not run away and always perform every day in support of the entire population. And the military and civil people who are fighting, he is trying every day, as it seems to me, to do everything possible to stop this war and Ukraine will be able to return to peaceful life. And what I like the most is that Volodymyr Zelensky, our president, does not go to divide Ukraine and leave it as a piece to have some benefits. He wants Ukraine to remain united. Yes, he supports, my father supports me too, so I can sign under his word. Our president Volodymyr Zelensky at this moment because he, first of all, he's in the country, he didn't escape. Second is that every day he's doing a tremendous job to draw attention to what's going on, to also, he puts a lot of efforts to keep people in the country. And Ukrainians all over the world still united. He is really doing a lot of, he's doing as much as he can right now, and he really keeps our people united. He's not trying to divide our country into pieces, which is easily to do right now in his own benefit. That could probably be an easier path, but he chose a more difficult path, which is good for people. So, you know, one thing is that he's, he's facing some very difficult times. Michael Iov has been essentially destroyed with war crimes and sophisticated weapons that are designed to kill civilians, not even really military. And, and other cities, but for example, have been the subjects of war crimes and all that, and now the Russians have put a new and very brutal general in charge. And he's using even more sophisticated weapons and land mines and, you know, just completely demolishing the cities that they attack. And I wonder how, you know, you feel about that is this is not war in the ordinary sense. This is war against the people of Ukraine. That's, that's not ordinary war. And I just wonder what your reaction is and also whether you think that Ukraine will survive in your heart, you think that Ukraine will survive. He observes that what is happening in Ukraine and that Russian military generals, they use different types of weapons, weapons, types of weapons against Ukrainian guarantors. Butch is one of the bright examples. Nikolaev also has a destruction at the moment. And he says that this is no longer like war in his own, in some kind of standard understanding. This is already more like a war against the people. Do we think the same way? And what are our feelings about this? And most importantly, do we think Ukraine will survive? Yes, war is already coming out in the framework of the concept of this word. The forbidden types of weapons are used, which are aimed at the death of as many people as possible, not the destruction of military infrastructure. Now there is a shooting range and artillery shooting with rockets. It is in the residential complex of cities where a very high probability of the death of a large number of Ukrainians. I think that we will win. They will help us. Of course, it will be difficult for us to stand out, but I still very, very much believe and hope that Ukraine will win this war. Why? Because we are still in a fair fight. And already in the Russian army, they use these bad ways of leading a war, let's say, precisely because they cannot achieve their goals quickly, they are trying to destroy just the people of the cities. Yes, the war itself, it's gone beyond its ordinary standards. If the war has standards, then this war is beyond the standards, that's for sure. And they are using all different kinds of weapons. And also, that's truly, you're right, that it's truly is against the people now, because as they said at the beginning that they're going to just attack the military objects, the military bases, the military storages. Well, that's not true because it's been a long time now already when they've been attacking the civilian parts of the cities. And just the common people are suffering and dying from that. So that is definitely beyond just having war between the countries, it's the war against the people. But we do believe that Ukraine will stand and then Ukraine will survive. And it's, there's an easy explanation for that. Our people, our army fights on our own land, for our own land, and that gives you tremendous power inside and spirit inside. Rather than their people, they come on the, on some, on the, on another land, and they don't know what they fight for. And that plays good for us. It's just because the Ukrainians have this spirit. We know that we have this spirit and we have this desire to win, rather than they, a lot of them are lost and they don't know what to do and why to do and we're talking about just common soldiers. One last question of that, and that is this, you know, Volodymyr Zelensky has repeated a number of times that he wants more weapons, more support from the EU, from NATO, from the US, from the coalition. And of course, the NATO and the EU and the US coalition has provided a certain amount of support. But if you asked Volodymyr Zelensky right now, he would say, it's not enough, we need more. What are your thoughts about that? Has the West provided sufficient support to help you? And if not, what would you say to President Biden about it? Volodymyr Zelensky says that we need more weapons in Ukraine. In principle, the world provides weapons in Ukraine, but according to Zelensky at the moment, it's not enough. What are our thoughts on this? Is it enough or not enough? Do we need more? What could we say to President Biden, who is the President of the United States of America? Well, to be honest, we are here, it's hard to say what's going on there, but according to the news, I see weapons, but I don't know, again, according to the news, in my understanding, I would like those rockets that fly from the world cities, so that our military has always had the opportunity to destroy these rockets, while the means against air defense, as I can see, are not enough, because the rockets reach cities and bomb the civilian houses and everything else. Well, we are here, and it's pretty difficult to give an expert evaluation about this question, frankly speaking, and we can get any information from the news just like everyone else, and from the news it seems like, yes, there is a tremendous help from all over the world. At the same time, from the same news, we can tell that it seems like Ukraine needs more, and when we say more, I mean, Ukraine needs more of these weapons that can destroy the missile attacks, if I say it correct, to destroy them in the air, so the missile attacks doesn't actually reach the land. It seems like Ukraine needs more of those, but again, it's pretty difficult to give a proper evaluation on that. I believe that Ukraine needs more planes to close the sky and have the opportunity to defend and attack Russian troops on our land, so that they don't shoot at our cities. My father thinks that Ukraine needs the more airplanes to protect the sky. And to attack the Russian airplanes in the sky if needed. He thinks we need more of those. I must say, Vlad, I like the Ukrainian people. Thank you. He should tell us that he likes Ukrainian people. And I think that if your father Egor took off his glasses, he'd look a lot like Zelensky. I'll just add, there are different opinions on the war, and there's one opinion. It comes from a lot of Russian people, but also from people all over the world. When it's the war, it's always the question of how, if you want to sacrifice a lot, there's a lot of destroyment going on, and of course there are a lot of people who are saying, maybe, maybe it will be better if Ukraine would just surrender, and maybe then it's going to be less destroyment, less people deaths. And that's, I think that's also a unique thing about Ukrainian is that of course we want less deaths, of course we want less destroyments in our cities. So where are the people of freedom? If we don't like our government, if we don't like our president, we just kick them out. And it's about our own government. And so when it comes to about some just random people or other people from other countries, like, no, we're not going to surrender. We will not surrender to another country. And I think that's a unique thing about Ukraine is it's difficult to fight until the end, but we probably will fight until the end. That's what I see about Ukraine, that's how we feel, and that's how a lot of people in Ukraine feel. But we know why we're doing it, what we're doing it for. Well, Zelensky has made the point, and a lot of people I, for example, agree with him, is that in Ukraine, the Ukrainians are fighting not only for Ukraine, they're fighting for freedom, democracy, the liberal world order. So it takes on a special meaning beyond just the invasion and the war in Ukraine. Anyway, we're out of time, Vlad, and Igor, thank you very much for joining us today. I really appreciate your answers and your views of these things and your attitudes about what is happening. Thank you for that. And I hope we can circle back and do this again. Tell your dad and ask him to say farewell, will you? It's already time, he's thanking us for today's meeting, so we're going to say goodbye now. I would like to say thank you to all Americans and to all our families who accept and others for that warm attitude towards us, to Ukrainians who are in Ukraine, who were forced to leave. Thank you very much. We are very happy that you support us and accept us warmly. Thank you very much. Thank you for any sort of way and for the support, because these people also make a big difference. So thank you. Thank you, Vlad. All of Hawaii says Aloha. Thank you. Mahalo.