 So I'm gonna firstly invite our session moderator. We have with us. Mr. Anuj Puri who's the chairman of and rock property consultants So if I may please invite Mr. Puri as well who comes with more than 27 years of experience Joining him. I'd like to invite Mr. Murli Malayapan managing director of Shriram property is limited may I please invite Mr. Murli as well and Come on, let's keep the applause going. That's the energy. We're looking at for the entire evening Our next speaker is Mr Ashish R. Poorankara who's a managing director of poorankara limited who's played a very pivotal role in the company's growth as well and Our next esteemed speaker mr Ravindrapai who's the managing director of century real estate holdings private limited Who oversees all the activities of the company starting from sourcing of the land to project execution and delivery? Moving on to our next speaker. Mr. Anup S. Shah who's a founding member and partner of Anup S. Shah law firm In fact, a reputed international business law journal recently listed him in the a-list of India's top hundred lawyers Our next speaker is mr. Amit Badwani who's a director of Sy estate consultants are limited So if I may please invite mr. Amit the Badwani, I think I've been told he's on his way He'll be joining us in a short while Let's march ahead and invite mr. Akshay Devani who's the director and promoter of assets property group a Chartered accountant and he heads the company's Residential business our next speakers mr. Yash Gupta was a chairman and managing partner of YG real estate LLP And he was also earlier the managing director and country head of Heinz, India So I believe we are just awaiting the presence of Mr. Amit Badwani and I've also been informed that one of our speaker mr. Akshay will have to take leave Because he has a flight to catch so on that note. Let's get the session started over to you, sir Well, thank you very much and a very warm welcome to all of you I know it's a last session of the day and Clearly, you know, it becomes tiring sitting in a in a closed room and just listening to the panelists I've got a very eclectic panel as you've Seen, you know very well known faces very well known names and perhaps the most interesting topic That has been given to me is Rera I mean that is I'm told by a lot of people. It's a gift from the Noida developers to the to the industry And I can say that freely given I'm in Bangalore But it is also being considered as one of the three tsunamis Which has hit the real estate in quick succession after demonetization GST and the real estate regulation act But I'm sure there are a lot of positives to Rera given What in the mid to long-term it brings on to these stakeholders and we're going to discuss and debate the negative the challenges the prospects of bringing more transparency and governance and Obviously in the mid to long-term, how does it positively impact the funding status of that as well? So I assume, you know, the audience here in the room is clear about what Rera is but If if not, I'm going to request Mr. Noopsha who is so well known in the community You know within the real estate sector to very briefly if you were to sort of give what are the three or four highlights of Rera and I know it's difficult to put it in three or four highlights But what would you say would be the salient features that have Really impacted from the way business was being done Six months ago to the way business will need to be done six months from today First of all, I think a great amount of transparency would come about to both the buyers and the investors in this industry Secondly, it'll probably self-discipline the builders from what What they were doing earlier and what they probably need to do now There is more accountability on the part of the builders from the point of view that the money Which comes in for each project has to be deployed for that project and I think by virtue of doing this I think the act per se earlier I used to hear people saying draconian act etc etc, but looking at it and seeing how the builders accept Accepted it here in Bangalore and in Chennai. I think it seems to be very positive And I think it will give great amount of confidence to the buyers and the investors and I look at it that The transparency is the key which probably was missing before and that's the reason why we had the structured debts etc Now we probably hope to have peace and Investments in our development. Yeah, it's a very interesting point that noop mentioned. Yes, I'm gonna ask you this is You know given, you know, what what? Mr. Noop Shah said is that you know, it is interesting We were structuring dead and the prospect of PE Coming back and playing pure equity game as an investor Do you think it is going to come in and we've lost track when private equity really played as Private equity and Moody smiling and a few questions to him But do you think we may see after era private equity coming in I think so I think so I mean if you think about it the difference between equity and debt debt is there the whole point is I don't care what happens to the project. I will still get paid equity says if there's uncertainty now I suddenly am a lot more concerned what what radar does is it brings more certainty to the process it to the to the Promises and it brings more discipline. I love the way a noop did it. It says he said accountability Transparency and discipline I'll give you three examples of how things change and how they will change with radar So for when I remember when we started one Horizon Center our project in Gurgaon and we had to do a brochure We had to make sure that the color of the glass on our brochure Exactly matched the color that we were going to put on the building If we not we would not have got assigned off from our corporate headquarters because there was no misrepresentation That would ever happen because in the US you would get sued for this kind of stuff Another example would be you would never start a project if you did not have financial closure or the third thing is you Know here we are talking about five year defect warranties in the US There's always a ten year defect warranty in most homes and in fact It's they all as a Heinz or as a developer people plan with the fact that they'll be a lawyer who will go the ninth year looking for defects in The properties to see if you can sue the developer on the thing So you know these are these are these are rules of play which have been there for a long time It just makes the developer be a lot more disciplined about how he does the things It's just a different way of acting and I'm sure all of us will learn how to behave properly in that paradigm And if we do equity will come back because they are now saying a developers are Developing better more disciplined more transparent more accountable and be if they don't do it We have an additional protection now through the law in addition to just our own You know what all we have in the contract to protect us So I think it should come back which is really positive news I meant to have private equity come back into play Mr. Batra, you know reality plus will do exceptionally well with the private equity coming back and and and doing this circle Only two questions and I know you give very pointed responses so one Anub mentioned is that the builder community developer community was happy with Rera I know as children properties you would be happy But tell me what they happy second How many do you think are actually going to survive this onslaught of Rera over the next 12 months? What percentage of the existing developers would remain and development 18 months from today? I know it started with that this is a last decision, but Rara is not the last inhale in the coffin There are some more waiting. There's some more nails waiting. Yeah, my god So again answer to the second question. I mean there are some more acts which are coming up in the next six months time. You will find Industry getting cleaned up once and for all I could relate what happened to NBFC's in the late 90s NBVC's were tsunami there was a tsunami all the NBVC's were washed out and At the time whoever the players out of top 10 it were washed off Wow two or three remained and That was because there was compliance new compliance that came in at that time. Yeah. Yeah, new law Exactly what is happening similar to Rara which has happened to NBFC of Rara in 97 98 It has happened and all the NBFC's thought of an unscored closed down I mean, it's not whether you are top 10 or top 15 doesn't matter whether you could sustain this pressure and Take it to the next level video con got closed on MCC Phenan got closed down Fortunately, we survived we were about to die as an organization Shriram group was about to die people thought I mean already coffin is closed and Nothing is there suddenly some hand came up and as a group we pulled up today. No, I mean now We are the largest NBFC in the country today The people survive out of 10 top 10 may be about two or three survive Let's get washed off then the next maybe a mid-sized player Out of each about 80% washed off 20% survey suddenly them some new heroes emerge That's what it is remains in NBFC industry today. You can count 20 NBFC's in the country having 95% of the market share I expect real estate real estate is very simple. People think it's very complicated. It is very simple There are only nine cities matters in this country for a foreign real estate investor. It's a one you know Karta for all the criminal causes NCR region Exactly opposite you know, I mean when who's the one mood a small guy when she was wedding was there Agastya moved to south so south remain good people So in balancing whatever the bad to good That's in between So you have you know one of the bad and one of the best and in between Bombay they're in between. I don't want to comment on that. He used to know they have their own way of managing things So if you manage these nine cities, you are there 90% of the real estate in the country Remaining 10% happens, you know everywhere. I see exactly similar thing which is likely to happen about 30 developers We'll get out about 85% of the market. What are you saying 30 developers is 0 There will be another 3,000 people could be Kathering to remaining 10-15% so that's what I see if you ask me who are all the people Unfortunately, I'm not an astrologer. I cannot make any prediction But it is sure the top 10 will not remain top 10 the next 30 will not remain 30 Some of them will get washed off some of them will stay some them will emerge suddenly a new hero can come up Probably yes can start a new real estate business can come in be a dominant player Though from not so you could do that This is what I see Wow, and you're saying is that there will be only 30 players left who are going to control 85% of the Indian real estate At least 80 to 85 80 to 85% It's getting a little liberal. We say 100. I mean that to my mind is Less than 10% of the existing Absolute that's a reality. It's not because of RERA. It's because of quite a lot of things We should not blame too much on RERA. It's a ordinary animal. We should not be beating down too much It's not the RERA the doing business in India today All over the world it happens in every country. I will not blame only India for this every country This has happened in Western worlds. It has happened in Germany. It has happened China. It has happened in the also It's happening. RERA is all a small instruments to make sure that industry becomes much more stronger and robust and very transparent, so we are moving towards a very Transparent governance and all that so it's a part of the process. RERA is only a small instrument We should not be blaming too much on RERA Ashish, you know obviously You know Moodli Moodli says that the ways of working are going to change and you know given the Circumstances where the developers are today Two questions to you is how within your organization you're dealing with so much rapid change That's happening one and second not related to that is do you think that with the RERA coming in land funding by banks will start So on the compliance for RERA front I I don't think there's too much that's changed internally Especially at Purvankara because I think as an organization we were anyway is compliant Develop transparency violation was not there So those things are in place, but I think what will change not only at Purvankara, but various with various developers is the way We do our business One big flaw in the way we did our business in the past was sales Controlled construction sites right somewhere with RERA there with the you know Timeline commitment right now which cannot be moved with the penalties that are in place The damage that it can do to the brand I think somewhere people will move to a hybrid model where Finance will control sites not sales So you'll have to ensure financial closure as an insurance so that Irrespective of sales going up and down because today business cycles are shrunk, right? We are having we're all seeing this we're seeing two three months of good stable sales And then three months after that for no reason that we can put our finger on the sentiment has just gone out So I think so I know some people are not I know we're talking to our bankers and we're saying you know The cost of this project is 500 crores. Can we you know complete the project 75% and then launch Why even take the effort of launching on day one and take that risk? Where is our maximum risk in construction is excavation structure, right? Finishes is something that we know we can control even the level of laborers that we deal with is far It's very different during excavation and structure time So it may be either you may decide basis size of the project where you say I'll complete the whole thing and then launch it Yes load the interest cost onto the project, but then there's certainty the other hybrid model could be where you say we will You know complete the structure so the uncertainty in terms of time Surprises are out and then launch it because you also do not want to be in a situation where it's large volumes You complete it and you're sitting on inventory and now government has started taxing us on unsolved inventory So that's I think that's where the internal strategy so we are evaluating all these we're talking to our bankers and see Your second land land funding would banks do land funding under RERA now. I think they'll have to I think I understand interesting. I'll tell you why I think obviously regulation have to change But I think today the most amount the banks have grown on real estate Every other industry have seen defaults. They have lost money But real estate is one if you talk to any top banker is where they've really made their monies today with RERA with us You know putting 70% Obviously, I'm just seeing a successful project where you're going to put 70% and maintain that discipline for construction Our level of borrowing is going to come down. I'm just you know one one way of looking at it So where are they going to deploy the money? So I think they're going to start pushing for funding land as well Interesting actually Other things will serve I think because things are getting streamed and also because now you have land insurance All these companies are coming up so that comfort for even banks will lend for land They have title insurance now on land that's coming in actually two questions. Let me ask the first one And I know you're short on time The first one is do you think that the IPO route is going to get opened up because you know, there is RERA and the retail investor May get more comfort now with the real estate developer community I mean quite unrelated But you know I had this question in my mind that is there possibility that I think the last IPO on the real estate Only would have been what 2008 2007 something like that There was okay, so say say five years ago Six seven years ago. There was So before we start I feel that firstly has I think RERA has not much to do with the banking and RERA is more consumer driven and And RERA is more like a stick to the developer that you just get it right for the customer and then give them power to them I think banks they have a good control mechanism on developers So if a bank is funding me today is only funding me for a CF or a home loan That's the only real estate share which banks have they don't have any exposure other than that They have all sorts of mechanisms as an escrow. There's a percentage. There is a milestone They have enough check-in balances to give money. So I don't think RERA has really helped them In fact, RERA has confused them because now in one state interest payment is allowed in one state interest payment Is not allowed. So and they all nationalize banks. They all talk about uniform methodology around the country So HDFC says okay fine. I will take X percentage of interest from your 70 I will take Y percentage of interest from your 30. Karnataka says you can take out everything So I feel RERA is more consumer driven and transparency driven Investors are very good in investing in India. They exactly know how to pull the developer up and get transparency Every NBFC sets up enough check-in balances for the developer before giving money even a private equity player They take a monthly RICO. Everything is there in place in system From an IPO perspective. Yes, because it will build consumer confidence that there is an additional check-in balance on the developer The some that currently no one is watching the developer So a consumer doesn't know who's investing in the IPO whether this guy has taken money and bought some land or sold The land or done what he has done with the money. So it'll only give comfort that yes There is an additional check-in balance, but if you truly ask me I think it's about the performance of the developer which will really Determine and how consistently has delivered results which will deliver him the IP. So there's a subtle impact on maybe My second question is do you think that the customer or the consumer today has understood RERA? You know So I'll just give you the so one of my projects We had a 17 acre project we acquire eight acres next to it And it was before RERA and we sort of masterplanned it and we suddenly told the customers now your 17 acre project has become 25 acre project Without understanding customers generally think developers all crooks and they only do things because for their own benefit I got nine so I sold 300 units in maybe say 15 months So all the 300 people said we highly object for this this master plan is rubbish And we will not let you go ahead with this master plan I mean to say now they don't they know that in RERA's one-third of two-third approval is required now There were three forums which had to be conductive Explain them as to why this new master plan is beneficial Why they should go for they made us cut down velocity. I mean the densities I had to listen to them because I had no choice Because if I didn't do that they would not give me the two-third approval now we have 95 percent But after great compromises meaning it's not that we had to do so they know now they have a tool They know that there is a tool and they just Google. Hey, did you see this regulation? So we had to sort of spy on the groups they were in to really see what they were talking So I was I was actually getting into the psyche of the customers Hey, you know now they're gonna try and cheat us with this and you know, that's all they were talking and they were researching in Google They were taking out a section and saying oh, you know, we have this power Oh, you know if he goes ahead with this he has to pay us interest back again So consumers are very powerful and especially I think it has picked up dramatically in India So everything is available on the net and it's all written in simple English I don't think that we really need to go and educate them there Very well educated within the rights to come and you know fight a case against you which is interesting because you know whilst we're talking about the Groups that are being formed. We're not starting to see the positivity in the sales yet happening because there should be corresponding positivity as well because as you rightly said it's bringing a lot of transparency and you have to go back to those existing customers and I would have thought that the new customers who were looking to buy would be a lot more Geared up now and will be very enthusiastic a very aggressive in mind. We're not seeing that reflection come through I don't think rare is a tool for people to buy. I think it's the economy It's where the status of the market is and and what are your general macroeconomic factors and as an industry What we're doing. I don't think rare is like a comfort Which sort of is it makes them fight for their rights in case the developer is trying to cheat them or Trying to do is deviate, but I don't think rare will influence them to Make a buying decision as such I think there are hundreds of other factors which go through before he decides a developer versus be the pricing The industry I think I don't think Yeah, okay Which I do want to cover during the course of a panel, but before I move on Ravi to you We have mr. Amit Badwani You know who's who's arrived and if I can request him to join So are we Yeah, thank you very much, okay, thank you Are we very interesting question what happens to the joint venture joint development? Responsibility as a land owner Because my understanding and I don't know whether it is correct or not is that the land owner becomes a part and is Classified as a developer and is equally responsible under Rera Whilst I'm not so sure how much authority the land owner has on delivery So just talk us a little bit about you know how this is Going to pan out in the future So first of all, I think that you know with Rera the biggest thing that's happened to the industry is that Finally the government is recognized as an industry. So I think we can take a pat on our back You know that the industry is arrived, you know, I think So far otherwise every other guy was a developer. Everybody was you know, I mean would be a builder So I think to me that's the biggest change that Rera is that's very very good and very pertinent Yeah, another thought that I want to share what Moody mentioned, you know about the industry Is sort of just segregating to 30 people I think another Factor that we know sort of fail to see is that typically real estate is painted with a wide brush You know the landowner is also in real estate the broker is doing real estate developer is a real estate, you know, so I think While I see there will be consolidation and there may be 30 people I think a lot of specialization will happen I mean, that's my view that you will see and in and within developers There are again asset classes, you know, I mean people specialize in commercial asset There are people who specialize in retail asset, you know, so I think some some of the specialization may happen So that was the you know, the the sort of thought that I had as I was listening to a Mugli and Archie speak coming specifically, you know to Joint ventures and things like that. You're right in a way I think that as the law stands today the landowner is considered to be part of a promoter Personally, I think it's unfair because the landowner is not necessarily in control or accountable for any actions in that sense But having said that I think what rare has failed to do is really put accountability on the various other stakeholders For example, there's a government, you know, I mean a lot of instances government is giving approval taking approvals back Not giving OCs there acts that are happening in happening in a retrospective manner. Yes You know, so I think accountability is not vesting with all the various stakeholders. So to that extent, I think, you know, I mean as landowners we need to sort of Accept the fact, you know that this has been put on us, you know I mean just as a developer accepts the fact that you know, I mean a lot of accountability are set on us without accountability on the other stakeholders, you know Having said that I think as as the sort of Developments happen as these as the law sort of gets tested There will be changes and I mean government also obviously will get smarter There will be tweaking that happen and I'm hoping that at some point, you know I mean it could be also a tool where the landowner starts getting You know, I mean his due if there is any delays or anything that's happening from a developer perspective, you know So I mean I'm hoping that the law sort of Tweaks itself as things go by. I mean people learn and I'm sure, you know, it'll sort of See it's way through. Yeah. So today you're saying is that it is Applicable I think it's part of a promoter group I mean, but hopefully as we go ahead, you know, there will be some merit that the government is going to see I'm not saying I'm saying that as a Yeah, we I was gonna come to that Yeah, so I believe I mean like I said, you know, there's already this laws getting tested and you know Mr. Noob just mentioned that the Bombay code is holding that the landowner is not a party to it But having said that I think in a project the landowner also has certain responsibilities to know So I think it's important that the accountability is get set I mean I it's a very very different perspective and very right perspective to bring all the stakeholders in it and set Accountability, you know, we're not trying to say that, you know, leave somebody out of it I mean a landowner has not leave him out of it So the same way you bring the government as a stakeholder and set the right responsibility I mean, that's I mean, that's my view. Yeah Anupa several questions. I have several questions and we can be here till sort of drinks dinner time But I'm I'm I'm gonna ask you three and I think it's very pertinent from the audience who's sitting in here as well The first is states are diluting what the model, you know, Rera was given by the center How do you think that is going to become effective and adopted by The states and communicated to the citizens. I mean if I'm a citizen of Maharashtra Versus I am a citizen of Gujarat next door state, you know, the Rera conditions in Gujarat are so far diluted In comparison to Maharashtra Would I not go do I not have an ability as a consumer to challenge the state government in the court and says, you know Why are you taking away my rights? Sure one thing I think we must keep in mind is that the rules do not supersede the act so act actually is the primary Act where you have to follow and Every state has been given the power to make the rules because you know in our country there are so many states every state has own local laws and Take into consideration the local laws you are entailed to make your rules But as you mentioned that some of the states have sought to dilute they are being questioned They have been upheld in several forums Including in Gujarat including in Haryana All these rules which are so diverse and contrary to the act have succeeded challenges, you know So they have all challenges have been succeeded to a great extent Obviously every state will try to make its own, you know sort of Differentiation and that's why you get these separate rules. You get different agreements you to get different kind of you know Structures to what you do and I was told like West Bengal. I mean Yeah, not rare because you know, she wants to be different so each state wants to do its own but I look at it this way that anything which is Dramatically different from the act would not be able to sustain itself in the rules. That's my view Second I has a I have is that you know if you look there's a lot of responsibility on the developers this act puts But you know Ravi mentioned this point that Approvals could be cancelled could be delayed, you know, we've seen a lot of the changes You know certainly in your state in Karnataka happening, which are also impacting the projects retrospectively There is no responsibility on the state government or the local authorities, you know How do you hold the developer responsible when in Rera? You're not putting responsibility on the state government Yeah, once Rera came and we were trying to you know, look at the impact of it And one thing we really you know sort of came about was to you know, think that This is going to open up a huge amount of litigation From the builders too because what has happened is earlier as far as these delays were concerned Which were beyond the control or beyond the control of a developer was part of a force major That is how contractually builders were probably protecting themselves rightly wrongly. I won't comment right now But that was available to them that aspect of governmental delays has been removed That would actually open up a Pandora's box and there will be huge amount of litigation because every developer will say It's not my fault because I've completed the building and that's exactly what we were debating in one of the forums somewhere that this is something which the builders probably will take it up as As a forum to say we need to challenge this aspect and say look unless and until you put some Accountability on the government there cannot be entirely on our part as far as I've completed the building correct So that's what it's going to come about But I think you know as we see all new acts go through the process of you know being questioned You know, they mature and then probably you'll get your answers to it So to probably give an answer right now as to what would happen is very difficult, but I'm sure The courts will definitely look intuitive. It's properly done. Yeah, and the last one that I had was do you think this is going to be an Act that the consumer would use it for harassing the developer Initially for first two three years you'll face that problem But as and when we mature as in when we have a good regulator I don't think they'll be able to control that they would be able to do that But it all depends on how good the regulator is going to be so that's the most important aspect like I Know all the builders will probably not agree with me, but I am I'm very positive man So I think I feel we have a good regulator. We'll have a good good run I was laughing because I thought at this point we're more worried about the regulator harassing us. You know, it's the customer So we we are hoping something like said be happens and probably we'll have a good Yeah, yeah, the only thing is you know Is there as what Ravi said that we've now been recognized as an industry is a very very important for us Yes, very very we were actually an organized industry. Correct. If you look at it and now we fall into right organized forum, you know, yeah Amit, thanks for joining us. You know just a quick question to you You know, we've been talking about Rera how it is impacting the developers and you know as an intermediary Rera is also impacting the intermediary and you know, there's licensing And you know, there is a more onerous Responsibilities because of Rera. How do you think that the intermediation space is going to get? Consolidated under the new Rera regulations Right. So I had the opportunity of meeting with our in the state of Maharashtra meet with Gautam G quite often and When I went with him, he told me I've been noticing all your ads. We advertise quite heavily heavily in the state and he said Today I feel can I give you an idea with your best advertising pitch today? Is your Rera number? So stop taking all those Bollywood celebrities and sports personalities in your ads and why don't you blow up the font of your Rera number 5x and Then see the magic and I'm sure that will help build consumer sentiments So where you know where where the two of us come in from I feel apart from our top line bottom line and You know, but today's the 30th of the month and I'm sure you're looking at your number than I'm looking at mine We also have to look at a little bit of nomenclature what what we dispense You know to the audiences because any change is stressful and you know So last about ten months. We have had three bullets as pop, you know People like to call it that way I think the next three to six months still I feel there's a lot of Education lot of knowledge that needs to be absorbed between, you know, the consumers the bankers the brokers developers I also heard about right about a developer who Constructed a project with about 5,000 KG of inventory but has submitted a blank form to the Rera authority online You know, so so we all need to actually look back and maybe pause for a while and Not really start, you know Convincing every day in the morning by a newspaper's atl. Btl. Yeah, Kharidh. Oh Kharidh. Oh buy this and buy that You typically sales people end up doing that, you know But I think we have to take a stand where we tell people that okay This is how it is going to be the next six eight months study the subject and as sales guys As you know an intermediary between, you know, the developers and the consumers I don't mind if my sales guys Tell me he said many child over both based here because I feel that they are not the ones who are actually Real real estate buyers. They don't qualify because I feel that if they put end up putting in money in my bucket here Probably they end up corroding their capital So I think that that honest good salesman that that rocket thing somewhere is required at least in going forward in 2018 if we have to really, you know, survive the test of the times now interesting feedback on the intermediation space I've got about 15-20 minutes. I do want to change the gears and really I want to start with that You know with with the way the current sentiment is in the, you know, real estate space and we're talking more residential I think in the city offices does exceptionally well Where do you think we are going to be in, you know, 18 months time one is, you know, Rera But really I think actually mentioned that there are various other Impacts that are Ensuring that the real estate sentiment continues to remain very dormant How do you foresee the next 18 months in terms of the demand? Pricing and then the corresponding new launches or supply coming up My estimate is demand is not going anywhere. Demand will continue Supply will come down a lot. Supply will come down more than 50% is my sense. Wow Demand will continue to grow Whether the prices will move up. I have my own doubts Probably if at all the prices move up marginally will move up But that will be offset against the cost of doing business Cost of doing business will is going up already now is going up. So In that it will be offset, but people who are survives they will I mean last They'll have a good time. They will have very good time 18 months time You know just like the real pause and you will see a good demand. I am not seeing demand going away and The biggest losers will be the consumer They have not realized yet. See again, you know me now people think I am sure on who also will agree This is not the first law which has come in support of consumer Since independence there has been at least about thousands of new laws which have come up to support consumers How many consumers got the benefit until today in the last 70 years? There are at least thousand new laws which have come up for benefiting the consumer The real benefit consumer got 1% Don't ask me where the 99% Ravi. We can answer that he has been dealing with them The remaining 99% goes somewhere in between Neither the producer nor the consumer gets that's where the benefit is gone But there I is not going to give 100% benefit to the consumer, but it is going to definitely Bring down the supply a lot because a lot of people who supply today are going to be they're going to disappear They're going to disappear. So there'll be a supply Situation will come down again if you look at the demand now You know in government of India is very keen to push these housing for all His talk price suddenly has gone up by 30% Double double in the last day. I'm 30% the last one week or 10 days Double in the last four months last 10 days. I mean where prime minister started talking about a photo processing Ashish's appraises going up So there is a huge demand Which is coming up on the photo processing that 2 million homes, sorry 20 million homes Will be a dream for next 10 years or 20 years though There is a wish to do it by 2022 But I do not know many other developers will step in and do it But there will be incentive for people to do it. So there is a good demand. I don't see I'm not worried about the demand I'm only worried about the consumer who will be the loser at this at the end of the day. That's my worry So Ashish a couple of questions on that You know if the supply is going to go so dramatically down is the government not worried I mean should they not be worried should they not be listening to what Moodly is saying is that you know Sir, you're bringing in all these laws and regulation and compliances, you know, ultimately the prime minister dream is Home or housing for all and here we are talking that this supply is going to dwindle. I Don't think they've realized that yet, but I completely agree with Moodly I think in terms of supply for various reasons Locking in capital. So what did we do? I mean not that the developers in the past or criminals What did we do? We took advances Initial advances let me put that from a project given and given advance for a new project Hoping that the future collections and future sales would fund the construction of this one, right? So the minute you start locking in capital obviously the rate at which you're going to be able to launch and multiply projects is going to come down Rera in itself. I think will wipe out for right and wrong reasons a lot of players from the market So on account of that I think supply will come down. So I'm a clear believer that going forward I think residential prices will go up because of the lack of launches and you've seen that I think this year launches are down by 60 59 69% in in Bangalore for example some data that I was reading last week So we're already seeing that so prices will go up Governments will realize on the other hand if you look at Maharashtra, right? So they're trying to really move forward in terms of ease of doing business I think yesterday they had some notification that came out where they were the government of Maharashtra They actually set timelines for the government officials to issue sanctions They're saying within 30 days you have to issue a sanction within eight days you have to issue a CC So they've actually so I think those places Might find their equilibrium over a period of time Obviously Karnataka Bangalore in particular. They're trying to reduce FSI. So Reduced reduced FSI So I think prices on account of Rera and reduced FSI at least for developers already bought land The price the cost of housing will go up. I hope they realize sooner than later Yes, you know a couple of questions to you one is Do you think that the NBFC life is going to come to an end in 18 months time? Isn't that the billion dollar question or maybe a month several billion dollar question I Yeah, it's a great question. I think I Do think there is a little bit of struggle for the NBFC is going forward Yes, because if the if you just think about that the industry as it's now being called as an industry is Better regulated that means people behave better. That means banks are more eager to lend and Equities more eager to get in the need for mezz or NBFC's will reduce So that's part one the second part is if in India though now they're talking about increasing interest rates if interest rates go down Secularly across the board then the then the affordability or the profitability of NBFC's also reduces Which then again puts their business model more at risk because it may just not be worth it for them to do that business So yes, I think I think there is there is a question mark about will NBFC's be as prevalent as they are today as the Almost the primary source of funding for the industry. I think that's that may change. Yes Second question is a little different to the first one is you know There was one more regulation that came out in 2014 and that was real estate investment trust Just like you know Rera that came out And you know we're at the end of 2017 we're nearly two and a half three years in this and we haven't seen a single read Come out. Do you think this is what Rera's fate is as well? I'm not so sure. I think REITs are more B2B as Round till they become IPO. So there is and it's more semi-controlled. So there are a lot of Details that are being ironed out REITs are more progressive. So it was not that there was a problem in the industry that they were kind of correct They were just trying to make the industry better. So so people have gone in people are talking about issues They have with read regulations and are fixing that so there is and it's taking time and and if they don't fix it A lot of developers are saying I don't want to do a read. I don't have to do a read So if it fixes, I'll do it if I doesn't I won't on the radar It was different motivation on the radar There was a problem as you said it is a gift that Noida gave to to India and no idea There was a huge problem So so one did not have the luxury the government or the consumer and to that extent the industry did not have the luxury So we'll figure it out and then we'll do it. We had to do something I think what will happen is exactly what Anup said which is it has it's been put out there It will be challenged. It'll go through several iterations of metamorphosis whether through precedences whether through Announcements by the court which will tweak it from state to state and generally and then it'll take you know It's own avatar which may be more sustainable and my third question is you know, we heard both Moody and Ashish talk about that less of a new supply coming in you know lack of launches and Moody said is the consolidation of developers happening What will be one solution that you would say that the government should look at or the industry should look at? Because I mean really this is quite a kamakazi statement in terms of the launches going down supply going down I mean this is completely adverse to what the government is trying to do to bring down the prices and bring in more Suppliers so that it provides homes to all and here we're saying is actually the The effect of the causes that you are bringing is producing a negative Supply which is going to you know create a problem What do you think that one thing that if the stakeholders or the government was to listen to you? They should be doing I'll take a contrary an approach to this which is I don't think they should do anything I think it's a good thing. It's it's it's the In a certain sense the way I see this play out is yes They will be in the short term a reduction of supply because if if as Moody said if 90% of the developers are going away And we're going down from 300 to 30 developers by definition supply will reduce in the short term However, what will happen is people like Ashish people like Moody We'll get a lot more people like Ravi will get a lot more capital because they are the organized players They are the professionals. They are the ones who have the processes and are rare are compliant So I don't know enough of our business But but but but they will get they will be doing 10x of the supply they've been doing today Because they will be a segregation between the landowner and between the developer which is not the case today Every landowner thinks he can be a developer the way I you know the way I paraphrase this industry is this industry has gone from being a Commodity industry to a manufacturing industry. It used to be treated like a commodity industry may pass Jameen. I have land today I'm waiting for it to increase in value when it increases in value So will my project and I'll make a lot of money and it didn't matter whether you're efficient or not because you were a commodity trader at The end of the day and competence was not either was not really required in many ways or regulated at least in that case Now it's become a manufacturing industry if you do know the process and if you follow the process Well, if you know that you if the customer says you will say what you do and you will do what you say Then he will trust you and you are just in charge of running a factory now You run a good factory you they'll be consolidation They'll be commoditization and with the consolidation will increase economies of scale and the bigger boys will get much much bigger Which means supply will increase and the small boys might either get niche players or just go away Ravi with the cost going up and you know both Mooli and Ashish reflected that the cost are going up radar coming in, you know with GST There's an additional cost impact What are the margins that a developer is making today? Margins have substantially come down from the good times, you know, I think there are various factors to it One is the input cost second I think a land price are extremely high and you know, I I mean my view that I think land prices need to somehow be Moderated and I think it's artificially high. The reason I say it's artificially high is that I mean if you you know If you look at land around Bangalore, there's a lot of land available, you know But to be able to get a land which is developable is very very difficult Why I say this it could be zoned badly it could there's only title issues, you know, I mean courts are entertaining, you know Partition suits 30 years back You know so the risks that are put in for the land for clear land is very high So if it's all that is done the developers really paying a very high price for the land, you know and land price Haven't come down mind you I mean whatever has happened land price haven't come down. So all this is really shrunk the margin my view on this whole Cost on rare are slightly different, you know, I believe that era is not going to change anything The reason being that the risks no risk is changed, you know I mean they become better for the consumer But in fact if you ask me the lenders in a worse off state today because the consumer is now been put in I think they were instances of the consumer the Supreme Court has placed a consumer ahead of the Financer as yes, you know, so in fact, I think there's additional risk and from I mean I can speak for like Ashish Moodle in many of the guys in Bangalore. They were conducting this business the way it is being done even today You know, so from that perspective, I don't think risk is changed from a lender perspective, right? I mean so Unless the accountability set on land or in I mean if there's title insurance and things like that I don't see this coming prices coming down. So In the near future margins are going to be very very subdued, you know And that's my view that I don't I don't see that there being too many margins in the industry at least Yeah, what it was in the past so Ravi that means that if margins are coming down and you're existing a lot of the players are going away They would not be replacement by new Corporates wanting to get into real estate development Corporates will get in see again. I mentioned I mean when I when I talked to you about the various asset classes I think there's a certain USP that a corporate developer brings to the table which is trust You know, I mean today why yes, and you know the so-called brand, you know Corporate brand is being successful is because there's a certain amount of trust deficit Maybe not so much in Bangalore because like I mentioned, it's a much more mature market But you'll see these guys being more successful in an NCR. Let's say where the trust deficit is huge, you know So that is a USP they bring I mean, so just like there are asset classes. You know, I mean, there's a special there's a specialized Retail developer there's a specialized corporate I mean office-based developer There are corporate brands who are specializing in bringing the trust of the governance Aspect and today there is a premium that is being paid. So there will be new players that will emerge, you know So we're not I'm not I'm not denying that they won't be new players But I don't think it is that lucrative. I mean you have to come up with some USP You know, I mean, I don't think it is very lucrative as a sector today for somebody to come and think that I'm going to enter And I'm going to make a killing which I think if you're asking me 10 years back I mean, I would meet so many people who aspired or yes Aspiring to become a developer because they felt that this is the line that is, you know, a lot of there's a lot of money And of course, there's glamour, you know, it's a bit like the film industry You see these big buildings, you see these big things, you know, the pain only we know But from the outside world when you look at these things, you know, it's a glamorous industry, you know, I mean And sometimes I mean we were joking in one of these Karai meets, you know I mean using the industry and recession people are complaining You know, come stand outside the port, you can see all the big cars going Everybody's wondering where is the recession Like I said, this is a bit of a glamour in it, you know, but I think it's, you know, unless you have a serious USP I mean, more than a serious note, unless you have a serious USP, I mean it could be anything, you know It could be execution capability, it could be ability to deal with land, it could be a brand You know, I think there's no real reason you need to be in the industry So whoever doesn't fit into the thing is going to sort of, you know, get washed away And anybody new coming in also, I mean, I don't think they're going to come in for the margins They're going to come, it's a long, it's a marathon I mean, it's really, I think, separate the men from the boys And the boys, I mean, the men will survive, I mean, that's my view I've last two, three questions and then I'm going to open for another five minutes The floor to ask the Eminent Panelist any questions you have Only one quick question, you operate in several states Whether it's West Bengal, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, several of these states Which is the easiest and which is the most difficult? Calcutta is the easiest, least corrupt state in the country is Calcutta Really? Perception is bad They are the least corrupt We have got 33 million square feet, we have spent zero money Sanction, we have got 33 million square feet And we are seen as Chennai boys and Bangalore boys We are doing good in Calcutta So it's the easiest Easiest today And government taking way forward And they're doing all out To do a lot of things Which is really, I mean, it is an eye-opener to me, I can tell you I was like of the opinion and it's like people sleep after B.C. Billabhat or whatever they No, you talked about government Yeah, I am talking government People still do that People Government does this Here people are very proactive Government is also active, so Well, there's nobody from the government here Still, you know, Minna So Minna, lot of pleasant minus So Bangalore is a happening place Chennai will happen So there are A lot of good things are happening here So each one has got its own Character of Chom Or glamour So that's what people believe There is a lot of glamour here We attract quite a lot of things Ashish, one of the things that Ravi mentioned and I had this question as well is that You know, the land prices are high My question to you is Do you think land prices will come down Over the next, you know, two or three years Or you think they will continue to remain at the levels where they are today One thing for sure, I think the rate at which they were increasing will slow down Will they come down or not, I think time will tell us And the reason I believe that is because Obviously today, you know, you put 10 developers Right, and we had, for example, two launches a year Right, and our habit, our nature was Like I mentioned earlier, it was our initial launch Collections which we went and given advance to Orlando now Today, the minute we understand that the money is being locked in because of RERA So 10 developers are chasing one landlord Right, so it's like I should arrive running across Linking Road in Bombay Today you're going to find two guys You know, two guys basically chasing a landlord So even in terms of the pressure And this landlord suddenly, you know A year before if you asked him, he said, I don't know if my land is valuable But the minute you have 10 developers chasing him It's become gold, it's become diamond So because of the suction of liquidity, capital, what RERA will do I think there'll be fewer guys chasing landlords And on account of that, I think prices will come down Amit, I asked before you joined the panel, Murli, this question I said Is that how many developers he felt that are going to survive Through RERA and through the other economic conditions that the real estate sector is facing What's the percentage of intermediaries that you feel will survive over the next couple of years That's a very interesting question because that is the piece That is now in the limelight Let me tell you a little bit of a small story about this 2010 I started this business as a flight steward You all know I'm out of an airline And at that time I got about 300 people unfriending me overnight Because I from a flight steward I chose to be a broker at that point in time And now I have IAT and IIMs who are working with me in my company As strategists and you know analysts and the sales guys So coming back to your question I feel the way people look at broking Now in 2017, the way they will look at it in 2018, it has become a career option It used to be sorry to say in the years 10 years back or maybe half a decade back Still in 2011-2012 was a taboo So how many ladies would get married to somebody who would say hi, I'm a broker So at least in my state and in the city of Mumbai There has been a paradigm shift between the way people I said it last time in Delhi and for the sake of repetition because you left by the time I said this I saw this movie, I want to be Madhuri Dixit But now most of the young boys and girls who are opting to be brokers Are all saying I want to be Anujpuri So that is what even Anagok has done to most of the developers that I meet I met with Vatwa Sahab a couple of days back Vijay Vatwa Sahab in Mumbai, he's done some great work So he spoke about you So this is the time where there's an indication that my creative agency told me We will not go with a Bollywood star, we will not go with a sports personality But we'll have you on the hoardings in Mumbai We have you in the newspapers Because I feel that the Indian consumers still behaves In spite of all the digitalization and the way forward, Rega and all of that regulation Indian consumers still wants somebody's neck When you are making a realistic transaction Because the volume, the loan taken, it's clearly a two and a half, three decade As a consumer you don't want to get this piece wrong So the life of, I want a smaller, large But as far as they are well educated, well informed They will have to take the position of being a consultant Not just being a broker So I feel a lot of these brokers who have chosen that I will not be able to go forward from here Because there's too much paperwork, there's too much to learn Would probably not see the time, not be able to survive any further In fact at our end we are seeing a lot of consolidation I've seen close to 600 channel partners register on our application Majood Because they felt that it is easier to deal with a stronger channel partner Rather than waiting outside to extract money from developers This is the feedback that I get There is one comment on Madhuri Dixit When she was at her peak, Parveesh Mushroff was the Prime Minister of Pakistan He made an offer You give us Madhuri Dixit, we'll give you Kashmir So what do we do for Anuj? I'm a moderator, but I'll still take the liberty of telling a story The owner of this company, Reality Plus Anurag Bhatra, he's sitting in here and he's a big man And he's got several of these media magazine business world And several of the institutes, he and I worked together We were amongst the first guys, this is way back in 1997 At that time both of us had a lot more hair And I still have a little bit So I'm a charter accountant by profession and quite introvert And Anurag is an MBA from a very bright institute And with great difficulty, you've been able to hire him at that stage And it was just fantastic And as a charter accountant you would be enamored by an MBA Because he had an ability to go out to talk, pick up the phone If on the other side somebody put down the phone I won't have the courage for the full day to pick up the phone again But in five minutes he would be back on the phone And very gregarious and happy And making a ton of money for the firm And making a ton of money for himself And one day comes in and says, I have to resign I was like, I was distraught I was like, you know, the full firm is going to close You know, he's the highest revenue producer Everybody loves him in the organization I say, why Anurag? He says, I enjoyed thoroughly I said, but then why are you wanting to leave? He said, because my parents are not able to find a bride Because I work for a real estate-broken company But I'm going to get married and come back to you But, you know, fortune turned in his favor And, you know, he's done exceptionally well So you're very right, Amit, what you say is That is what the community was looked at many, many years ago Anup, I'm going to close with you one question If there was one change that you had to do in RERA You know, Prime Minister Modi called you and says Anup, one change that you're allowed to do What? Gujarat He's thinking that's because you're Mr. Shah He may call you up What would that change be? In the act As Ravi mentioned, all the stake players Accountability should be included in the act That will do the trick, I think Wow, and I completely endorse that Absolutely correct So if you just bring that in To say the government will do this in this much time I think it will be perfectly balanced Anup, you think it's possible? I don't want to comment on it right now With that, ladies and gentlemen I just want to, you know, just To the fact that Modi mentioned that the consumers earlier were several acts But none of those acts provided that within how much time the dispute should be resolved The only change RERA made is And let's see how it works out Is that any dispute which is referred to RERA Either by the builder or the consumer Needs to be completed within a period of 30 days and 60 days of appeal So I think we have that accountability brought in in the RERA act And hence probably there could be some change And both the consumer and the builder may see That there may be some relief at a faster end That's what I... Right That's the only change I think RERA made The election commission has been prevailing in our country for the last 65-70 years But the rules were the same There was one TN session that was required to show what the power it is It all depends on how you implement whatever the... That's very important Thank you very much A big round of applause to the panelists here And I'm not so sure whether we have time for a few questions Two or three questions If anyone's got any question We've got a very strong panel in here And feel free to ask if the gentleman sitting in front and the one at back So we'll take those two questions Yeah I am B. N. Moti I'm from Dubai I'm an investment banker I could relate the scenarios here to Dubai scenario Way back in 2008-9 There was a very great slump And real estate prices crashed A lot of chatings happened And there was a total washout But prices never went up I want to take a parallel to the comments made by Some of the industry experts that If there is a washout There will be a price stability and price movement upwards What will happen to those people who got washed out And their land bank What will happen to that I expect a sudden spurt in supply And that will bring down the prices But overall during a period of time There are the same thing that happened in Dubai also It was not there earlier Now things are looking up Investor confidence blustered Funding options are heavy You get private equity on a larger scale My question is this I've got an objection to the point That real estate prices will go up After the washout of Companies in the near future That could be a point which I want to debate Second question is I expect the options Which we are talking about new funding options There are plenty of political funding options Being an investor bank at I-4C in India It's anonymous with Dubai So there will be a political funding options will come Once the industry inspires confidence to the investors Thank you I think there is a big difference in the short term effect Midterm effect, long term effect What we are essentially saying is the minute you have The number of launches come down Obviously subject to sentiment Sentiment plays a very important role So today, yes, there is pricing pressure Most developers across the country will tell you that But at least in the good key markets Like Bangalore for example, like Hyderabad, like Pune Sales have been stable There is pricing pressure You can't increase prices But sales are stable What happens when you take away Out of the basket of 100 projects on offer You take away 50 So when we say washout Essentially there is stress in the system In those projects Construction has essentially stopped You have the authorities stepping in Whatever resolution needs to take place New buyers won't go there They'll go to the existing projects So in the short term We believe prices will go up The minute you take that out In the median term I think there'll be some stabilization Not to say that there is pricing pressure today But sales being stable In the long term Like one of the panelists said That what happens to that land bank I think when you ask that question I think it's the organized sector Who are being backed by the right funds And the banks will start taking over those land banks And then start launching more projects So I think the market share Of the serious players Who have transparency Understand corporate governance They will see their market shares go up Gentleman at the back? My name is Murli Dhan And I did ask a question When the earlier session happened My question was this I was just wondering Whether the panel forgot to You know, consider one aspect Which is With demonetization And black money's availability Coming down People, you know Using the real estate investment Root Has it not come down? If that has come down Will it not impact the prices? This is more to Murli again And when you said That the prices are going to go up Will this aspect play a role? Number one Demonetization Demonetization And the fact that, you know People probably May not be using real estate As an investment route now Which will in fact impact the demand Yeah One Second We did not touch upon the availability of You know, the available inventory Is the available inventory Not meeting the current demand Is it in shortage? Because I believe this demand is going to be The aspect which is going to determine the prices So are we Unnecessarily getting worried about Prices from a consumer perspective? See, demonetization There is a myth Black money getting into real estate Let's understand real estate in its true spirit Ravi was explaining Dividing real estate Starts from land aggregation Then landowner Then the developer Then the nominal consumer If you look at Developer as a community We do not Involve ourselves in land aggregation We just buy the land when it is completely ready Where is the black money getting in there? Zero At least 80% of the Grade A developers The black money Involvement was zero Where is this black money so called? Black money going in The people who made money out of greed See again, there are two Creation of black money One is out of necessity, out of greed Out of necessity is about 10% Out of greed is about 90% As a society, we need to address the Greed That's one Necessity, you can control it I don't mean to plug it through Some new laws and regulations But greed, how do you do that? They innovate new ways to collect money Or generate black money Where does it go? Doesn't come into real estate developers Basically At least from when I say real estate developers The Grade A developers Or Grade B developers Who conduct their business In a very, very forthright way With good governance See, we have been doing business We are having about 80 million square feet We haven't paid one rupee so far To any landowner so far We have taken a lot of lands from Ravi We have not paid one rupee So that's the case with Ashish That's the case with I can talk At least for another 20 real estate developers Who have not been dealing with cash So it's a myth That black money getting into developers Black money getting into Land aggregation Black money getting into Resale That's maybe the true I don't know Because I have no idea of that side I have not seen that side Consumers started dealing with Check payment Long back 2000 when Vajpayee G Brought this ATIB That was the first spot of Growth in real estate as happened Consumer shifted To dealing with the check I would say At least a mid-market affordable housing You see at least about 99% of the transactions are in check There is a cash involvement It's a myth That black money getting into Development There is a reality The black money getting into Land aggregation Or You need to target two different people Now unfortunately you're targeting developers They do not have any black money Or at least no mean Some of the senior developers Do not have black money Whereas Lot of other people who are Not into real estate development Which contributes to the nation's growth They are all having black money I mean, guinea bags And they do not contribute to the growth They only take money from Various people Putting into land That doesn't add So probably the finance ministry should look at Attacking them separately And dealing with people Who contribute to the nation's building So that's a division we need to bring in That's most important one Only when we do that There will be a correction The other one is My major concern on the inventory Mid-market affordable housing Demand is much Higher than supply even today as we speak It is not that supply is higher than the demand And this will continue For the next 10 to 15 years This will continue Ravi again Anup was also saying They, unless we create a right environment For doing business There will not be new supply There will not be new people Come into the business Unless you invite Lot of new people See, let's say, you know, I mean You have a daughter I mean, if you need to attract Lot of good guys to come and look for you You need to have certain qualifications Or if you have a son You need to have good qualifications To attract lot many people to come and seek you Which is not there today Just not the RERA Inventory is one, another major one He again talked about Dubai and all that I expect the major issue Which the country is going to face According to my estimate More than half a million homes Will never get constructed, delivered In the next 10 to 15 years Which will all be, I mean, incomplete Lot of developers, you know, we try to acquire Lot of stress assets It's not there That's a major, major concern Because of that, there will be panic System, panicky, I mean, in the consumer mind Again, they will all go to some established developers That's what I see That's where the whole game is going to be Very, very different the next two years time And lot of money is coming in I mean, Dubai is a very small country Which is contributing to these India's growth Tons and tons of money sitting there Just sitting on the fence All that will come in to the established players now Do you want to add? No, I was just going to add on one's statistics Which can be verified as we have At least, I think, five listed players from Bangalore So if you see the monthly sales quarterly numbers Also, that's reported I think November, for whatever reason There was a dip I think people are just busy Trying to understand what demonetization So if you go back to December The December month sales were equal to October Jan was higher than December Feb was higher than Jan If you see quarter on quarter, the sales has grown So in that sense, what Moodli was saying Is so true and you can actually verify it That sales have not dropped And the obvious reason is that There is no cash in the system Especially in cities like this I just want to say It took me a long time, even after a quick To find someone, they wanted to tell you that I had to collect a lot of money and pay in dowry That's how I got married I just want to clarify that It's not worth it But on a serious... I want to tell you a small story I'll take names because One day, Tripti called me from Pune And then she was telling me about something And then she said, I'm very happy today So I said, what happened? Did you make a big sale? She said, I met a developer Who's been cheated by somebody It's a real story I told it to my wife Because I asked her so Why are you saying that? She says, normally developers cheat everyone So I finally met somebody who cheated a developer So the reason I'm saying this and linking this up Is that lots of housing units won't get completed Now in Noida I'm talking specifically of Noida The people have paid money And the people work for us People who work for us You know, they paid money for projects They paid 30, 40 From 17 lakhs to 35, 40 lakhs You can imagine which developers I'm... Now those large conglomerates Don't have the money to complete the project Should a company like NVCC, which is government Be brought in to complete that or any other body Do you think there is a solution possible To the Noida lock jam or not? Because if the projects get delivered There's still a lot of money to be made Which can be utilized to pay debts So the public sector banks benefit Consumers benefit So you know Is that a solution? Somebody like NVCC? I don't see a solution Incidentally, government of India has set up About 10,000 crores of fund Given to NVCC This is our great Mr. N. K. Singh's brilliant idea He's considered to be a Chanakya It's a good move Compliment It's a compliment It's a good compliment NVCC has been allotted 10,000 crores to address this It's not good enough According to me We need to allocate about 150 to 200,000 crores of capital So that it can attract another about 200,000 crores of money To complete these projects Will it still get completed? My answer is Maybe 30 to 40% See, when we frame the laws We need to be very clear Why is one small country And behavior is easy In India, behavior is very, very different I must tell you I don't want to drag Which finance minister it was He thought a lot of money Not the current finance minister So a lot of money to get into stock market We should not be wasting money in banks as fixed deposits This is the how to business school teaching That's a management... I mean, teaching is that If you want to pull a lot of money from savings to equity market Reduce the saving interest, it'll come into equity This is how you write the exam You'll be passed and you'll get some good marks The same logic was applied by another Our business school professor Who happens to be a finance minister in this country Next day, savings shot up by 15% Within a week time, saving shot up by 40% Consumer behaves very different For example, let's say my parents Or my grandparents If they have, let's say 10 lakh rupees as a fixed deposit Which gives them, let's say, about 80,000 rupees Interest The moment you reduce the rate of interest Immediately what they do They bring from various other source Match up another 2 lakhs They increase the deposit to get 80,000 That's a reality That's a reality in India That's not a reality in our business school class There's a big difference So if you apply... Harvard Business School Learning I didn't go there No, no Unfortunately, I have gone there I have studied there So all the people are not bad So I must qualify that So we need to design the law To cater to the consumer behaviour of that particular country That's very, very important Currently, the form in which some of the laws are prevalent Prevalent today At least half a million homes will be incomplete Because those consumers Even let's say NBC is setting aside a lot of money Let's say in a project, you take about 500 apartments There are 300 book, 200 is not booked Or 500 booked Out of these 500 All the 500 have not strictly paid by the contract Somebody has paid 10% Somebody has cheated The developer paid 0% Or trying to get some advantage Somebody has paid 90% How do you collect the balanced money from those consumers? And every consumer Like, you know, in a temple, you go and put a milk Everyone puts a water Thinking that somebody else is putting milk This is the behaviour of some of our consumers That's a problem So you never see milk at the end of the day Thinking that, you know, milk has come in a lot But only open, only water would have been there So this is the problem what we have as a society According to me At least half a million homes will remain incomplete There is one typical example I love a company called Alakrity in Chennai The governance, the number one I would say I will not rate any other company even today At power with Alakrity Which was in Chennai Complaints is best Only one mistake what they did We will not pay corruption They advertised in the paper That's it They are finished The company is gone Closed The promoters, one of the promoters Both of them are incidentally from Bangalore Ashok and Amul Karnat One of them out of frustration, right? The other is dying any moment That's the reality today They have a project in Mughapair About 800 apartments I met all those customers who were bought They were all willing to come forward Because they love that brand They have so much loyalty to the brand They were all coming forward to complete the project It is 18 years, still the project is there It is not being completed yet So this is the reality That's the serious problem what we have today Just a quick addition to that I think the low-hanging fruits The projects where there is some profitability Some unsold data, etc I think we'll be grabbed by the developers But I think a lot other one They'll have to be a national developer That the government may have to create Step in who actually mimics a developer And there will be some projects where they may make some money Which would be used to fund projects Where the cash flows are not adequate enough But come to the customers Today you take examples of our completed projects They take three years to form an association So there is so much fighting to form an association Inside of development that is already complete Leave alone trying to complete a project Between the customers, this won't happen Thank you very much We've had a real engaging conversation I know this could have gone on for a long time But I've been getting a lot of signals From the young lady there Saying is that we need to wind And it's been a very, very useful conversation Between the panelists Thank you to the audience as well Patiently listening And really appreciate the time