 Okay, let's start The next talk will be a blending debian by Andreas tiller about Debian pure blends as a way to strike for the project if there are any questions Please raise your hand and wait for the microphone Andreas your turn. Hello everybody. Nice to see you here It's not that crowded the room, but I hope I could entertain you a bit the next Wow Okay, I give a very short introduction to Debian pure blends because I'm at all Depcon I am joining have this talk, but no slides will be repeated. I cannot Assure you so Debian pure blends or in short blends is a subset of Debian That is configured configured to support a package particular target user group out of the box and the first goal is to turn Debian into the Distribution of choice for a specific target user group and the goal to which we in my opinion Do not regard So much is to to advertise this fact to the world So I mean the world should know that there is some Debian Edu project and they should Use Debian if they want to run a school or they should know that there's a Debian science project and Scientists are served well inside Debian This is the point I want to make so I try to explain it in several ways and today I try it with a comparison which might be at some point week but Comparisons are there to to let you think about and I just want to keep you busy thinking So if if you think of her the flock of sheeps, they are surrounded by a fence and Sheeps are happy with the fence. I Have grass water and air that everything they need and it keeps them safe and They are really happy saying meh and I'm fine with grass It's tastes fine and I've heard some rumor that outside the fence is some greener grass But I I just don't care just leave me alone I I just want to stick what what I have here and I feel good And did you ever try to explain a bird the sense of offense? How would you try doing this? I mean, this is what an additional degree of freedom means and freedom means This bird has a completely different fuel to the world than the sheeps and he said well a fence might be a useful thing to drop something on it I Wonder what these animals don't fly and By the way, the green the grass is more greener on the other side, but they don't care So how can we establish the communication between sheep and birds? It's currently not very fruitful and so I Think we as a distribution should find a way To make the communication between single developers and people who are potential users, but Don't really know it We should try to to make them communicate a bit And this is a really hard task because you have to cross the distribution the dimension because If you are used to have a fence around it and you are happy about and you don't miss anything It's hard to talk to somebody who learned about freedom and that doesn't doesn't mention and people of The usual users just don't care about non-free stuff if you ask here is this okay if deviant keeps Completely free and hardware drivers everybody rises his hand. We just have seen it in his speech of Stefan on the first day But if you go up on the street and ask the people The only important question is do I have to pay for this? And It is really hard to find a way to communicate to people that the price measured in money is not the point. It's just the freedom and In my opinion, we continue to fail to explain this so we need some transmitters Who can fulfill this transmitting role? This is in my opinion we have in indivian a lot of people who are working in certain work fields I for myself are working in a medical Institute others are working in schools are working in different places where there are experts and They are respected experts amongst their colleagues They seem to be a little bit crazy a little bit geeky, but I Hoped and to some extent they have some contact to their colleagues and My main problem was explaining my colleagues the only question which was What are you doing? What what can you give me to make my work more expensive? And this was my reason when I thought well We should make it a little bit more visible what what we are doing And I try to make it visible on some web page We designed here for for this is just an example for debian made we have for other projects We have these wet web page where we list all those packages which are inside debian Which are relevant in this specific example for medical practice. So we have Yes, one one example for free diams. It is used to have some some to organize some drugs and The people can read about this and they cannot only read about it. They can also read in Their native language. You see the translations This is quite important because if you are in a school or so you cannot expect that people are reading English so You cannot present an English page. You need to have a translated page and This web page even has a feature This is in examples German. There is a German translation, but you may see it is wrong so the the user can go there and fix translation and There are other examples where we don't have a translation and the user can go there and say well I can translate it. So by trying to involve the users in what we are But you try to to tell them this could be one way To make them know better what we are doing We can also show them a screenshot of this program. It's a little bit low resolution here, so you won't see it so If if you try to answer the question, what are you doing? You can say well if you are in this case a doctor and in every we have several examples We have also Debian Edu example as can show you a lot of them You have in this way you have a chance to say what you are doing and this is important because this is the first entry point and That's my I'm quite proud that we have these These web pages to make sure that everybody who is Interested who is a member of these flock of cheaps can say hey outside this Can you can be used this? This is fine for you You have also you can see it says and you are upstream version and or depth text We have a lot of information on this page. We can also Present how many users are using this program in this medical software? It's not that much, but there are some 13 users for some free medical software. It's it's not that bad This is kind of a niche Target group, but we have a lot more for people in other fields It's just my favorite example so What I wanted to tell you is Debian pure blends give those people who are Experts in their working field some tools in the hand To convince others. Hey, there is some cool stuff in free software. There is some collection, which is really relevant for me and so If Debian has about Thousand developers and everybody works in a different work field So we could try to convince a lot of people if you would start Preparing these categorization inside Debian. There's a quite easy way to do so I Do not go into the technical details. If you if you want you can join me you can Find the documentation which is quite extent because it's so easy They are so less to explain those people who can edit a Debian control file can do it and I've Talked about it previously. It has not changed So in my opinion, Debian developers failed to Oh, what there's really no show. No, I mean they are just Singing only these high technical songs. I mean they they talk about geeky stuff to people and That's not good priest try to speak the language of the users You will not Be able to to convince somebody with with High quality and security and whatever the user want the program which is usable for him and Believe it or not say they expect programs to work as it is and They are used to to software which is per default not So high quality as we are using here. I just entertained Yesterday morning in the the supermarket nearby the on the the counter this windows XP Box was dying and they accept it. They use it. So The point of high security is really important, but it's not so Convincing him somehow they want to have a set of packages Which is covering their work field if you could replace the counter by something which looks similar or even better Then it is fine. So try to To keep a focus on the the application and the use for the certain work field and we Quite frequently Saying well, I need to code write this code go away. I have no time to For your for a question it's read a book or read the fine menu. And so I Think it's also wrong. I I think we should spend the time to to find some users and If it's about your colleagues who are working together Sitting around the lunch table or so. This is the best place to talk about this In my opinion, we also failed to have some established communication channels It turned out that David made mailing list was a very nice place to to join Debian developers doctors biologists whatever are working with this and we need this established communication channels We have some some very well-working packaging groups which are doing a very brilliant technical jobs, but Their work is not Propagated to the outside to the final user. We need to reach them There are several examples I could provide but Try to to accept that there are people outside Who need some some guiding hands and this guiding hand can be only done by their colleagues who know their problems Sometimes we developers also fail to to build proper teams and There are people who are doing high-quality packaging and but they just care for this package and there is Most most packages have some some environment around which Somehow belong to this and it's it makes really sense to to stick together with other people Just to resist to reduce run over by bus factor to make sure that the package is Probably maintained and we had a made a very good experience with Just talking to developers Which have packages which are falling in our field and do you want to join? Do you want to use our common version control system? The advantages are various and so we somehow managed to to get all developers which are working and Software which is useful in biology and medicine in the Debian made team and this was quite successful and I Recently had the pleasure to to welcome to Debian developers who just joined us. Hey, it's a cool team It's fun and they are starting building packages which were Which nobody else had had time for and just because the team exists the people joined and we are stronger now And this is the kind of important thing So the consequence if we are failing to communicate Is that they are rise my world called in this Kind of comparison proxy which are called derivatives which try either fixing the communication problem This is in my opinion one important reason to rise some derivatives, which are just better skilled in communication with their users They built a nice and shiny web page. They have set up some web interface to fall questions and so this is something we cannot everything do on our own, but My in my opinion, this is one of the reasons why we have so much derivatives Or they provide some some more dedicated system I even learned that for instance, there was derivative called Biorinux which are more or less exactly doing what we are doing in the Debian mid team They derived from Debian now they are derived from Ubuntu three people and that didn't use All the Debian package we built but build them in the non-policy conformant way Because they considered it better, but they had a really nice web page which was convincing and nice and people started using this and This we are only three people and Two people left now and finally after five or six years. They thought oh Why not working together with Debian? It's so cool and we have a dedicated system, but we could Make use much more use of this What is prepared inside Debian and this is what I really like and These dedicated system can be perfectly prepared inside Debian so as I'm not Bored to say they blend is not a derivative and blend is really not a derivative and so the rivals Might really consider fixing the problem as a group. So if they have a problem with Debian, they want to serve Just talk to us It's nice to have a lot of them. We talked about this. I'm a favorite of Derivatives if they make really sense it makes not sense To have a very specific problem and think oh, there's a problem. I will fix this on myself You will not be able to fix it on yourself over a long time period I all attempts I've seen Somehow failed because of manpower or whatever and There are so many adaptions you can do inside Debian, which is perfectly fine So I would like to advertise a blend if you really need a derivative to make it Inside Debian and prepare it Debian so so far as you can do And you should remind it doocracy principle You can you really can do it inside Debian. Just join us You don't need to be a DD you can become one, but there are so many people who are helping you. It's called the sponsoring system so just go on As I said a blend is no derivative, but you can help we can help to preparing it so my imagination of of Spreading Debian all over the world is just like this we have several work fields covered and if you see the The the space is filling up more and more if you if you widen those blends Which we are have now and we could have even more and so we could cover all the space of available applications and we could make Debian even more interesting in so many fields that's at Any any topic you want to do this and we can really really Make more users by by spreading this word and spreading over a lot of computers so This is what I mean with Covering more work fields. There is so much Left inside they were I could imagine to to split up the Debian science into Debian mathematics Debian physics Debian Whether or call it what what what you like it? We currently have a Debian chemistry and Debian made which covers biology or you just imagine what you can do or and There is always a chance to to Categorize your your software and present it in in a set of packages and instead of a single package. I also ask you to build strong teams around it and if you have seen the Framework here with it with the web pages we have these page which is user oriented and we also have pages for for bugs one moment I Can you can see? oops for instance as a developer I would like to see those Problematic packages or categories which are interesting for me and I try to fix bugs in this category. So if I'm If I'm a medical doctor to stick to this example I Can see all those bugs which are relevant for medical practice on one sheet These are not so much because we are have not so much We have not so much packages there if it is about Packages in the field of biology you have some more and we have built some tool where the developers can see all these packages are relevant for biologies and These are the bugs and if I'm a biologist I have interest to get this fixed and Well, I really want to Make sure that that we have some overview over relevant packages My hope is that we in this case can also attract people That's what I want to know. Well, I'm for instance Physicists physics. I'm a physicist. I'm have some knowledge. Can I do something for Debian? And so we can direct them Go to this pack a page try to find a buck of your choice preferably one which is really critical and Try to fix it. This is also one way to involve people in what we are doing so if you have another or additional Ideas how we could and use this framework to make sure that People could see Debian rather than a set of packages and of a number of A number of single packages just talk to me. I'm interested in knowing it And you also can try to bring back external projects to Debian as I said in this be a Linux example They are they will not come back to today. We are rather not but they they will Get a close connection perhaps bring in additional developers or we had recently one example there a new Derivative rise to what? That wants to support small children or adults to to have the Computer best prepared for their for their play and joy and and perhaps I'm learning and We just have this inside Debian It's called Debian junior and they these people was not aware of this and after I pointed them into it Oh, and what should I do? What? Expect what are you expecting me to do? Well, I don't accept any expectation to somebody who wants Debian look better The person defines what is good and what he wants to have and According to our doocracy principle He can change Debian the way so I said well take over Debian junior with which is basically dead and make it what you wanted to be to just fulfill your goal and Put your specific view onto Debian because Debian is flexible enough to fulfill all this So kind of preparing your derivative inside Debian So this is my vision for Debian pure blends Currently we have discussion about time-based released. What do you think about topic-based release? We just releasing Debian inside blends and and we prepare small Or single or duals to DVDs which just fits a certain topic which you can't over to somebody I'm I'm not very sure if it's how it could be worked out But but I think it is really was what users want they want to have They're working on a specific topic on the computer and We could do this. It's not that hard the preparation is there There is some technical stuff around it which should be solved But in my opinion a topic-based release is basically what the blend is and so I I Think about we think that we could do in this direction very well So I really hope that we can have some discussion about it and we the Thermautox turned out to be quite with a living discussion and if you have some some ideas I would be very happy The talk is available will be available soon there where you can find all my talks and Any ideas what what we can do what what you want to do or what what you want us to do or whatever One of the problem I see with Blend and I think you already know that and it is from the start It is that is difficult for other people to understand that it is part of the Debian project and also what is the goal So I did you consider moving the look and feel of the blend pages to the new Debian website style I think it would be helpful people would understand that it will be the same point same project It's a very good idea. Yes. Yeah, we can we can do There are there are templates in XML we can everybody can do it But I I get Scott's idea and if nobody rises a center volunteers I Try to do this. Yes Yeah, a good idea Any further questions comments who has formerly heard about blends did What I what I talked now fit your what you are Sort about blends What it was you expected or did you something did you sort something else about it? I feel is he not Okay, so I do not want to keep you away from from having lunch if you're not have further questions I would would be happy to have some question or answer some question, but It's okay. If we would stop here Just one thing maybe just to everybody What I realized is what really helps people is not to speak about the technical background like this is KDE this is GNOME, but the other way around what you can do with it And this is I think a good approach saying this is biological This is just about this topic. So it's near to this Okay, in Ubuntu we have a concept flavors, which is very similar to blends and for some flavors we can have something like education or Medical use or multimedia, but for others where the focus is the same target audience using a different technology We find it difficult and I would think that it would be unwise to assert That every blend must have a target audience because that means that you couldn't have Say two different blends that use different technologies to provide a desktop experience Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think we should leave the freedom of choosing your desktop it's We don't care user installs it uses your install blends with other with meta packages then you have your computer installed and add the specific topic or It might be somebody has a very strong opinion Why specifically this desktop is good for for the target user group then you you pre-configure But you can't stop users using something else and I also Got a question on Monday if blends are only only about specific specific user group by Postgres guy because he said well, we could make a blend about postgres and everything what you need but but Running a postgres service also some kind of target group and if you prepare Everything what the postgres user needs with one click? Well, that's fine. That could be a blend. This is okay It's just think flexible and say well We want to prepare a specific topic and this can be it can also be language groups some Internationalization is the group of speak people speaking a certain language is also a group and we can Motivate these people as best specifically if the language is not very well supported by other operating systems I just learned that from Christian that in Bhutan as a language spoken. I forgot the name. Sorry Yeah, and this is At least the string is not in in the Microsoft operating system They have something which is intended to work there, but people don't realize it So there are a lot of Linux installation in Bhutan. It's also devian derivative But we could try to to make the things they need for their derivative Include into devian to make everything the control the bug tracking system every Infrastructure we have it could handle this This is my idea So if there are no further question we have in the afternoon a complete track about blends in in the round room It will be at first talk about debian edu then we have a debian science roundtable Which hopefully will be quite interesting. It has a long discussion last year and then we have Two talks which are a little bit connected to blends Not actually about blends about application installer by Enrico Sini, which I'm very keen on hearing and the last talk will be done by a tassia about Application recommender, which is something like I'm really keen on hearing this and and Alan had Done something a couple of years ago in Edinburgh, which Says and it's basically like Amazon doing people who bought this book also bought these books And I want to know people who installed this software also installed this software because it this could really make the design of our meta packages and and Blend even better if we know what people are actually Installing then we can do it even better So this is for for the afternoon if you're interested So there are about ten minutes left. I think And if there's a questions, so see you in the afternoon Okay, thank you Andreas for the talk and go for lunch