 Y ddechreu i'r trwys pwysig ar gyfer ystyried. Y Dechrau Llywodraeth am Y Llywodraeth yn cyfan yw'r dros yng Nghymru, yn ysgrifennu'r Llywodraeth yn ysgrifennu'n cyffredinol yn y cyfan ar gyfer y Llywodraeth. Llywodraeth, yn cyfan, yn cyfan, yn cael eu cyffredinolol o'r Llywodraeth i'r cyffredinol, wedi'i cyfrifysgfaithau o'r llwyton, gael yng Nghymru. Yn mynd i'r gael, y Llywodraeth yn ysgrifennu'n cyfan, a'r ffordd o'r pwynt gennym, ond y byddai'r bobl honno'n cael i'r gwmwysig iawn, a'r cyfnodau krytyl iawn, sy'n cyd-difaith ymwysig o'r asent. Rwy'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'r cyffredinol, Llywydd, Christian Wogl yng Nghymru a Tungi Abdulameed. Mae'r bobl yn ei tynnu. Rwy'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'r cyffredinol. It's my pleasure, media. All right. Thank you for having me. Great. I'm going to start with you, Mr Wogel. Let's look at the statement by Mr Lown, and the fact that he started by saying that the executive, not just the executive, but the legislature, has been able to push bills to get accent from Mr President, as opposed to other republics, whether in fact it's from the forced republics. So let's take a look at all of these republics from the force all the way down to now, and what role they've played in bills, and then we'll get to what these bills are for. Yeah. You know, we find that the Senate president made an open-ended statement. He didn't really give us the basis, the figures, the facts to make such sweeping statements that they have done more than their predecessors or his predecessors. And I really think that for a man at that level to make such a statement, his spokesman, there should be a basis. I mean, and then assuming without conceding that what he's saying is correct, I really think that it's somewhat kind of insensitive. Yes, you said you're going to ask questions around that axis, but I could just quickly take a shot at that, because for bills to be accented, for him to have accented more bills than his predecessors, what does that mean to the student who is at home? Because the negotiations that he, the Senate president, should be doing with us in a way to make sure the... I mean, such a statement, what does it mean to such a person? What does it mean to the fact that you buy 200 Naira Lwf and you squeeze it and it's... What does it mean? What does it mean to the fact that a lot of young people, Nigerians, generally, are escaping and dying in the seas and in the deserts? You know, so I think that such statements should be made with a lot of caution bearing in mind that, and even if it's a political statement, it has to be tied down to some realities. Okay, yes, signed so many bills. To what end? Great, you asked the question that I wanted to ask, but let me just give you some background. He made this statement actually as a guest lecturer at Parliamentarians Lecture Series, which was facilitated by the National Institute of Legislative and Democratic Studies, but I'll give you figures. He declared that President Bohari had been the most proficient in granting assents to bills as available data on gazeset acts showed that between 2015 and 2021, Bohari had accented to more than 84 bills, the highest since the commencement of the First Republic, 84 bills, which means that this is the highest. But you asked a great question, which is to what end? And you've also asked about the fact that what does this replicate to? Do these laws become enforced for the betterment of the average Nigerian? And I think that those questions need to go to the Senate President. But you also mentioned something about a political statement. I mean, if this were to be a political statement, why do you think the Senate President was making it? Well, basically to justify, well, I hope your pardon me to say this, to justify non-performance. So you think that the President has not performed? Yeah, we are looking at pragmatic situations. We are looking at realities. We are looking at real life. Yes, some of these persons with due respect to Miriam do not know the cost of pure water. They don't know. They don't know what is... I mean, the fact that if you go to a canteen and you pay 500 Naira, you'll still come out like you've not eaten. They don't know this thing. So that's what I'm saying in competence. I'm not saying... As a person, of course, for him to be there, he must have a pay degree, must have a precedent where he's coming from. But in terms of reality... Just so you know, the Senate President has had one of the longest tenures in the National Assembly 35 years. So he does have a pay degree. Yes, we are not contesting that. We are looking at deliverable. We are looking at the things that a statement, call it political or whatever, when it's made, people will hail and say, true, that's correct. I just felt it in my bank account. I just felt it when I went to the market. I just felt it when I took a drive. I mean, even to fly now, it's a huge challenge. So these are the things we are looking at. That's why we're saying that such statements should be made, should be tied down to certain realities. Not just be made, opened and let it just fall into the ground and maybe attract more votes. We think we should have a better deal than that. Tunji, let me toss this one to you. I'd like to quote the Senate President. He said, and I quote, For 20 years the National Assembly had attempted reforming the petroleum industry without much success. It was first introduced in the 6th Assembly 2007 to 2011 but failed to scale through. Similar efforts by the 7th Assembly failed to secure concurrence by the Senate while in the 8th Assembly the bill was passed but failed to secure presidential assent. He now goes on to say that in the 9th Assembly we prioritized the bill in our legislative agenda and worked closely with the executive to secure a passage and assent. Now this historic achievement of the National Assembly means that Nigeria now has legal governance, regulatory and fiscal frameworks for the petroleum industry that will promote optimal utilization of the country's abundant oil and gas resources. I'd like to really hear your thoughts on this PIB because you and I have had conversations on it. Ann, I am laughing because I don't know the basis for making that comparison and those statements. You see, like my colleague said, it's a mere political statement. The PIB was passed by the president and since that time it was passed. What has changed? Nothing. It was passed, people have been passed. There are requests for amendments or for changes or something like that. So it shows that it was not properly thought out before it was signed. We just signed for signing sake, for records, for the purpose of... We have signed a number of bills for what is happening today. You just want to play that record, statistics, that look. A number of bills have been signed. Whether those bills have effect on us or not, it doesn't matter as far as it's consigned because that's why it's making the same basis. I don't understand the basis of what is saying. The PIB was passed in the 8th Assembly as well. That's because of the president at that time. The president at that time was not in a good book of the president. Another one, they were trying to make him look as easy one, blocking the progress of the country. They refused to ascend to the B. Not because the B was not properly done. Not because it was not properly thought out. That's because the president just wanted to show that look. See, seeing as what is coming from the 8th Assembly, led by Dr Bocasaraki, I will not ascend to it. That's how I see it. So today, making bragging about the number of bills that have been signed by the president, I do not see the basis for it because I have not seen the effect of those bills that have been signed by the president. In fact, both of these bills that have been signed by the president have also been disobeyed by the president. They have not been followed. They have not been passed. We see what is going on that. Certain things have been done without the gas to that law. And the president says nothing. It was not properly done. So as far as I'm concerned, bragging about whether he has signed a bill or not is not an issue for me. The issue is that how well has this been in our situation? How well has he developed our circumstances? How well has he changed our circumstances in this country? I looked at talking about the bill that has been passed. That is the job of the National Assembly. It's to pass law and into law. So if you are passing a bill in circumstances that we are here now because circumstances that we are now is not the same as that we were before now. So team has changed and we must improve on what is on the ground. And that's what they are doing. They are doing their job as I'm concerned. That job is not even enough to even ask if it or not as a citizen of this country. So if he's bragging that look, the bill that passed has changed our lives. So I would say yes. He has to brag about that. But he's just bragging without giving us any basis for that. As I'm concerned, he doesn't pay a political price. Let me give you some more information. Again, quoting the senate president, he said that this bill, the PIB, would enhance social and economic development and promote a conducive investment climate in the industry and faster development of host communities. That's one. Now he said, without sounding immodest, we have equally concluded work on several other important pieces of legislation that have been signed into law, all of which have potentials to significantly enhance various aspects of our national lives. And then he goes further to say, the Finance Act of 2020 successfully amended 17 key aspects of the extant laws, including seven existing tax laws. He also said the CMA 2020 Act also represents a landmark achievement representing the first time in 30 years that this law has been updated. Other bills of great economic significance that have been passed by the National Assembly and awaiting presidential assent include the Public Procurement Act of 2007, recovery of public property bill, and the amendment of Assets Management Corporation Act, among others. So you're talking about the fact that these things may not have an effect on our daily lives, but he's also making a case that these bills have potential in his words. I'm using his words to change our national lives. Potentia. Potentia. We are still talking about potential. Where the bill has been passed for how many months it goes. The PID has been passed since 2019 or 2021. Yes, we have not seen the effect of that bill. In fact, I am aware that there are two or three amendments that have been proposed regarding the bill. In fact, two months after the passage of the bill, certain things were being put forward. Certain things were not known. It was not worth it. It was just a tiny thing. The point is not going to sign it, just for record. Because you can see, if you see the letter that was signed, it was signed when it was not even properly done. When the president agreed that this bill is not proper, then sign it just for signing sake. What is that? The PRGB has not seen the effect of it. It has not seen the difference between the world we are at. What we used to have in terms of NNPC and what we are at today. I have not seen any difference between them, whether it is limited ability or not. I have not been able to see the difference between the two. We are still doing the same thing. I thought I am concerned. The president signed a bill into law. It is not a big deal. That is the job. It must do it. That is what you need to do. If you sign a bill into law, you are doing your job. I do not have to praise people that. Do your job and that is why you are being paid for. That is why you are there. What I am after is that, if he is telling me that those people have been signed into law, are now giving us more joy, are now giving us more security to us, are now giving us more welfare, are now giving us more relaxation of mind, then I would say that he is talking. There are a thousand percent today, he is just making statements. Without any benefit to me. A thousand percent. Mr Wogel, let me come to you. The issue of our budgets, which also translates into whether we are asking for structural developments, good road networks, power, energy, is something that he also talks about. He talks about the fact that the Ninth Assembly has also successfully pushed for a return to the January to December budget cycle, which was, according to him, made possible in collaboration between the president and members of the executive who have since 2019 ensured early preparation and presentation of this budget. I would like to hear your thoughts on that. Miriam, the fact that a budget should run from January to December is not something that anybody in office should say that it's an achievement. But it's something we had struggled with over the years. Yes, if we had trouble with it, it's like saying, like everybody says, when there's an election campaign, I'll give you water, I'll give you this basic thing. In fact, I will even give you human rights, which is fundamental to existing. See the point is this, whether the budget is running, of course it has to run from January to December, but the point is the budget, the major issue of budget in Nigeria is non-performance. You know, you find that at the end of the, I mean, some time even before the end of the budget tenure, you hear that there is a bill now for supplementary budget, an additional budget. The other one that just passed, somebody is saying it only performed 10%, 25%, these are challenges that we need to deal with. But a quick question because we're out of time. We complain about these budget cycles and non-performance. Who's challenging it? Apart from Serap, Kudos to Serap, they are always filing suits and asking questions. But where are the other people? Who's pushing to ask the questions? Where does the money go if it's only performed 10% or happened to the rest of the 90%? We're not asking these questions and these guys are coming back to ask for your vote. So really, should we just be talking about non-performance? We should be asking the question, I tell you, is the media, is the press? You know, sometimes I feel that the media should really... The press is asking those questions, but is it just the press that is... No, but essentially, let's not even begin to label them. The real person that should determine how the budget goes and makes sure it performs is the commander-in-chief, is the president, is the governor, is the local government chairman. Those are the people that we have given our trust, our mandate to deal with our money. All of those things are our money. So if they're not doing it, they're in default and in a huge default for that matter. Who's going to hold them to account? EFCC. If only EFCC can also live up to its bill, we can really get it right in this country. Well, I want to say thank you gentlemen because we are out of Time Christian Wogel and Tunji Abdulameed are both legal practitioners. Thank you gentlemen for being part of the conversation and talking for development. Well, that's all we have for you tonight on PlasPolitics to round up today's show. Nigerians tell us what they think about the APC's 100 million iron nomination forms. And that's on Street Views. I'm Mary Annacol and we'll be back tomorrow at 7pm talking for development. Have a good evening. As a people, these are things that we need to take into consideration. We're making our choice of a party to support or the candidates to support because there is a consequence of such things being put in place. You don't expect someone that pays a huge price and buys from his pocket to actually then not want to recoup that money. Where do they get such money from? To buy just a form? Where it's not guaranteed you're going to win? So as citizens, we need to be watchful of that and make our decisions. It's not ideal, especially if you look at what's going on in the country now. 100 million is a lot of money. I want to use the word absorbers, a lot of money. My situation is for me as what's the basis? How did you come about 100 million? I think the other parties are doing 40 million, 35 million. 10 million is a lot of money, given the fact that we're looking for a leader now who doesn't necessarily have to have all the way to do financially for the leader who knows what it is that a country needs or is expected of him. They are making money for the party. The money belongs to the party. So you can never say maybe it's wrong or it's right. If you have the power you do, you pay it. It doesn't make any sense at all. That's too much. At least there have been like 50,000 at least. Actually, that's too much. 100 million, no. 100 million, 100,000. I don't understand 100 million. No, that's too much, it's too much. If an individual in Nigeria would bring out 100 million from his boss to buy for the president, meaning that he has three loans of Naira in his account, therefore EFCC is supposed to go there and find out what is working. If you happen to buy the form too, what are you going there to do? You must bring your money back, put your interest before you think of others. That's ridiculous. In fact, when I heard the news and I'm wondering where do they want like genuine people to actually get this kind of money? People that can afford it are people that are actually stealing. The other time a certain man did a burial and EFCC invited him over to probe him because of the money he spent for the burial. So EFCC should also invite these ones that are able to buy these forms and then probe them and ask them where they got that money from because you can't tell me it's not genuine, even if it's genuine. When they answer now, they will want to steal and get back that money.