 Hi everyone, I'm Raif Darazi and in this video I'm excited to sit down with our guest Doreen Moura Maracha to discuss her work in HIV advocacy HIV prevention combating stigma and U equals U Doreen Moura Maracha an exceptional champion from East Africa is a member of the Education Plus Young Women Leadership Hub and host of Maisha Health Digital Recognized as one of Africa's top 100 change makers She advocates against HIV AIDS stigma through her I am a beautiful story initiative Her impactful work has garnered awards and positions in prestigious organizations like the International AIDS Society and UN Women Doreen is a leading voice in the fight against HIV AIDS stigma. Doreen. Thank you so much for joining. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? I'm doing well considering I'm running around like crazy lately I So I wanted to start by asking you a general question that I ask all my guests Which is what is your assessment of the current state of the global HIV AIDS epidemic? From a personal opinion, I would say I Am 50-50 on how we're doing like I'll give Generally, I will rate at rate us at a 50-50 50 percent because one we have treatment now Which we didn't have way back in the past. We now have Access to better HIV prevention methods. We also have a Better response generally and like what was there in the past? but the other 50 is the part that Disappoints me a little bit because HIV has been with us for the last 40 plus years And we have not managed to normalize the HIV conversation We have not managed to handle this stigma and we have not changed people's perspective about HIV Which means people don't uptake testing voluntarily People don't take prevention methods seriously and people don't start treatment on time Which are things that are now affecting the general Global response when it comes to HIV so until we manage the stigma we have slightly much a Lot of work to do in our hands Yeah, and it's a big challenge and it's a different kind of challenge than the practical one So very well said For those of you at watching at home or wherever you are Doreen we met last year at the international AIDS conference. That was the first time I feel like I feel like I've known you for longer, but we really just met at one time Because we met, okay, like we were following each other online So I feel that's why we we have probably we feel like we've known each other longer But we physically met last year. Yeah, well, you look you look gorgeous Thank you. Doreen is a fierce advocate I always see your posts online and in you engage with so many people and it's so powerful the work that you're doing I try my best and you're succeeding at it So I would like to get to know you a little bit better on a personal level And so I'll start by asking when you were first diagnosed So I was first diagnosed with HIV Around 23 years ago But I was born with HIV so but the official diagnosis was done when I was eight years old So My parents were what we call a discondent couple where my dad is Was HIV negative until he passed on and my mom is still HIV positive. So They basically just I was sick. I had the what we call herpes booster So I was taken to hospital They tested everything and they were like can we test for HIV and then I turned out positive that day and I was There was no treatment. There are no ARVs. So it's more of cancelling my parents to accept the Incoming death So it's the only people born with HIV among my siblings is me and my late brother So they were cancelled. They were told you have to prepare her you have to prepare yourselves You must know that one way or another you're going to lose her And I know The doctors that time I feel like they had a very Hard time trying to tell people living HIV that there's nothing we can do You know, there's nothing as bad as you've gone to hospital to seek help and then there is nothing they can do completely so I was taken home I was baptized In preparation And then five years later. I started my ARV. So in between there were so many opportunistic infections But my parents used to rush me to the hospital like every time there's an opportunistic infection. I'd go to hospital Some I'd stay away from school for a very long time Two months three months and catching up with the rest of the kids was slightly challenging because now I was away for like a whole month. They've learned so much. So in 2005 I finally got started on ARVs and To me that was also the time I was told because all along they never told me that I was HIV positive So that was also the time I was told to rein your HIV positive and you're going to live with it for the rest of your life and you were born with it and You're going to start treatment special medication called ARVs And that at that point as a 13 year old. I did not take it as shocking news. I did not take it as As something so huge. I was like, okay fine To me I was excited because every time we did the hospital visit my mom would Also spoil me. So she'll treat me to chips and chicken and soda And those were the packs. There were packs. So I was happy so It hit me practically when I was in high school That I am HIV positive because what my doctors have told me never tell anyone your HIV positive So I was like, okay, that's not a big deal. So I just kept living life So when I went to high school because it was a boarding school and it was a shared space The other kids will see me taking this medication and our medication back then was so huge So they will be like, what is this treatment for? Why are you taking medication? Are you sick? How do you feel? So now I have to lie because I was told to say I have a heart condition. Nobody nobody stigmatizes you for a heart condition So it was easy and I will get the oh, sorry. So how do you feel? How does your heart feel? So I'm there explaining symptoms that I have never experienced because it was an easier way out So when I finally finished high school Then I realized that this is a question I will probably get a lot for the rest of my life on Why are you on treatment? What is this medication for? And I had never sat down with myself to even Accept that part of I am living with HIV and this is something I tell people a lot that Have you disclosed to yourself that your HIV positive? Yes, the doctor told you your HIV positive But have you ever sat down and said hey Doreen, you know you are HIV positive like And those words sink in for you to accept that reality because that is something a lot of people struggle with That they're HIV positive, but they've never reached a point of having a conversation with themselves So when I when finally it sunk into me I stopped taking treatment I started blaming my mom for being HIV positive and the thing is I'm the I'm now only it just me and her In that household taking airbes. So it was so hectic because my other siblings wouldn't understand when I tell them I I don't like taking this medication. So I stopped taking treatment I sought some herbal medicine that convinced us that we were healed of HIV and For two years I was not like I was going to hospital picking my airbes But I was not taking them because I did not want to be labeled lost in care. So When I the first year I went My viral load started going up and the doctors were like why what is happening and I was there like I I don't understand I I'm also lost like you guys. Maybe you explained to me So at this point they were considering taking me to second line medication And then I realized that if I go to second line and I also fail on second line because I'm obviously not taking medication They will take me to crime Can you explain what second line medication? Oh So in treatment we have treatment levels. So the first one where everyone is introduced to is called first line medication In Kenya the from the Kenyan context our first line medication is just one pill But for people who now for reasons for various reasons If you do not if the first line medication does not work for you for example treatment resistance Um, maybe you your viral load is not getting suppressed on that particular regimen regimen is the type of ARB Uh for like for various reasons that medication does not work for you So they take you to another level of treatment which is now the second line level So if the second line level also fails then you are taken to third line medication So the higher you go the more the pills So with second line you can take like either two to three or even four medications On third line is another cohort of medication there So it's I don't know whether we have a fourth line, but I know in Kenya we have up until third line So when I realized that my doctors were about to take me to another level of medication I knew that I was reducing my chances because most people Even when you start treatment you're told to never leave the first line medication because that is it's easier It's an easier dosage And very manageable unlike the others because the others is more treatment and sometimes The the types of ARVs that are used in the other regimens might not be Exactly available in so many like third line has very rare types of ARVs So you are usually told as a patient Stay on the first line don't leave first line But unfortunately sometimes it's not you and there's nothing wrong you've done But the treatment just isn't working then they do consider taking a treatment resistance Test and then now you're taken to another level So for me, they were just assessing from the level of virus Which is the viral load in my body Which was going overboard and they were wondering what was happening and I was lying because Again, most people living with HIV going through self stigma and a lot of denial Lie to their to their doctors. They lie like it's It's easier because then nobody is going to reprimand you So I lie to my doctors and then after that I stopped going to hospital So when I stopped going to hospital the center social worker to come look for me. I said I would go back But I still didn't this whole time I at the back of my mind I know that I'm cured of HIV from the herbal medication that I took So, uh, first forward. So just a question. Where did you encounter the herbal medication? It it was in a neighboring country called Tanzania. How did you get in contact? So in 2011 this man came on media or national media and was saying that he cured us every disease And so because of the hype given through the media, I convinced my mother and we went to his place And there were so many people so many people with different health conditions Going there. It was a whole queue. We spent like one and a half days there Just to access the man and the and the concussion that he was having us And once we took it he was like remember I don't cure anybody but your faith will and we had faith So that is how we ended up where we ended up. Yeah So two years later I get pneumonia And my mouth I just woke up one morning. My mouth was so swollen I couldn't eat anything. I had a huge fever I was taken to hospital so many tests were run and by this time my viral load was I think at around 120,000 copies And uh, they were the doctor just looked at me and was like, why did you stop treatment? And at that moment I didn't know how to tell him I was tired I was because nobody prepares you for treatment fatigue It just hits you and you stop day one and you stop day two and a week has gone by and they're like I'm okay. My body feels okay. And before you know it, it's three months, six months You have never taken treatment treatment for sick fatigue is very easy to fall into because nobody explains How tired you get like you can't even explain it to healthcare worker So I just looked at him and he was like, you know, if you don't take this medication You're going to die. And I'm like the thing is that the back of my mind. I know that but But somehow I just kept going and three years later here we are And so he told me question Sorry to interrupt, but when you say treatment fatigue, do you and being tired? Do you mean physically tired or do you mean mentally psychologically tired? It's it's more of a mental and psychological thing. It's not a physical thing It's it's this laziness you get in you that You feel like if you can just go around through not taking treatment every day life will just be slightly easier Like you don't have the burden of remembering that today I have to take treatment And then you take a treatment and then tomorrow it's the same thing. So you you kind of get tired And I know some people say that taking treatment every day should be like as normal as brushing teeth as eating But I tell them those are things that you don't you can't compare with taking appeal every day Taking appeal every day is mentally exhausting You just you cannot compare it to brushing your teeth because they know the same thing Because I know I'm taking this treatment for a particular reason. So it's it's not the same thing. It's not at all so I I I I just got tired. It's more of a psychological mental thing and Again self stigma. It was majorly fuelled by the self stigma that I just don't like this thing of living with HIV. I don't like it at all. So, um First forward the the doctor was just there Being unreasonable and all that and to be honest with you The only reason why I went back to taking treatment at that time was because my body was in pain And I could not eat so everything I was eating was being blended And then I'll just have to drink it with a straw because nothing could pass And and I had very many antibiotics. So I had to eat And my So I was just looking and sometimes I make a joke of it. Uh, and I tell people that sometimes I used to look at my family Eating chicken because I love chicken a lot. So I will look at them eating chicken And I'm like they can't blend chicken for me now I'm stuck here drinking juice because I I stopped taking my treatment. So Uh A year later I started uh working. I was interning at a particular organization and so we went to test people So as we were testing people The young people we were testing were refusing to come to our tents completely like we were there for three days There are no people So One of our bosses was like go to the it was a school setup So go to the classrooms and get them talk to them. Let them know why they need to be tested So I would ask them randomly one way. Sorry to interrupt you I have one I have a question before you get into that story. Um, how did you get involved in helping with testing? How did I get involved in in in helping with testing? It was part of my job description. Basically like we had to do outreaches. Yeah, what was your job at that time? I don't even know whether I had I was just an intern. So I was doing everything but it was more of um Uh, okay, it's a government institution, but it had a wellness section So I was an intern in the wellness section of it So it deals with teachers. So teachers who are affected by drug and alcohol abuse HIV Any long-term illness? So they will come in their counselors in that department. Uh, sometimes we will go to the schools ourselves for the counseling for the outreaches and all that and whatever is stressing them in life generally that that was their scope. So that is how I ended up then Were you interested in that because of your HIV? Is that what drew you? No Let me tell you my HIV was never a driving force at any point of up until that point Because up until that point I wanted to be an air hostess and I wanted to be an air hostess or a radio presenter So to me that it had nothing to do with it, but because I'd gone to school and uh They had uh, I had studied community development and social work So I was just doing that because my parents refused to let me become my air hostess follow my air hostess dream So I just ended this over and done with and then I can go back and do what I loved doing which is being an air hostess and then I ended up in this like I literally just ended up here. So Um, okay. Thank you for the context. I'll let you continue your story Okay, okay. So I basically We were testing people they refused and you will tell someone one is the last time you got tested. They're like, I haven't done anything Why why would they get tested? I've not done anything. So, um, a few years later I think no no no actually like a few months after that particular Outreach my boss called me because she knew I was HIV positive So she called me and she's like, oh I would love for you to share your story And for us to use it even for the teachers who come to this department and they're living the HIV And they're struggling with accepting themselves and I looked at her and I was like It's not a bad idea But I knew I did not want to do it because part of the reason why I was hesitant was one I had been told to never tell anyone I have HIV Because that is what used to happen when you used to get tested in the past second was um The first stigma I faced was from my own family members So at one point there is a point that my utensils were separated and disinfected after I used them My clothes were washed in different basins and disinfected. So when I finally added one plus one together I was like, there is no way I am telling people that I'm living in HIV So when she said it, I just laughed and I was like, I can I'll consider it I'll think about it So she told me go write it down. Send it to me. I'll work on it After I was there looking at her and I'm like, there is no way I am doing what she is suggesting that I do Because once people know, you know, the thing about public disclosure is once you're out, you're out There is no going back. There is no it was nothing. It's you're just gone. So But I saw I said I took her challenge and sat down and wrote my story On paper because that is something I'd never done And I realized that I I I wrote it like two or three times and I just couldn't continue So I just threw away the papers and I was like, I am not doing this. There is no way I am going through with this thing So a few days later, I was reading the magazine and um, I come across a story of another doctor She's doing some work in one of the informal settlements here And that's like, I can branch to this lady the editor now and I rushed to the editor I literally just typed in the work machine and I told her my story and everything and she was like I love your story. So the back of my mind when I was writing this story I was not writing it to her to Come out and tell people publicly that I'm leaving HIV. I was more of doing it for It's like chatting with an anonymous bestie and you don't know them. They don't know you and you're hoping they don't respond so Then she responded then I was shocked and then you don't know what to do and now I had to call my mom because My story has my mom's element in it and if I have to Say it and I have to say her story as well Then it might become problematic, especially if she is She is not in agreement with me doing the story. So I called her and I told her uh, I ended up This is how things started and now this lady wants to interview me and she was like, okay Fine, just go ahead and do the interview and I was like fine So I did the interview and it was supposed to run on the daily paper like on the print media And then they said we have decided to make it on there to just publish it on the digital space And that time the digital space was not as huge as it is now. So I knew people aren't going to read it I was like, okay fine. That is even better than being in some magazine somewhere and people are reading across the country I don't want that and then they shared it on their facebook page So facebook had started becoming big in kenya and now people were tagging me people were saying these people are spoiling your name Because up until that moment, I had never lived with HIV publicly on my social media platforms So I was just another person that people happened to know and we were just talking to I was talking to strangers That I don't know and we were just vibing and now they're seeing me on a newspaper Shared online on facebook and they're like the media the media is wrong for this. How dare they so this people And everybody was tagging me. So I panicked and I installed my facebook that day I was like, no, I deleted my facebook page. I was like I can it was too overwhelming So I had also left my email at the very end of that story And then the emails could not stop coming in. I received over 1500 emails That day and the whole of that coming week were just emails and emails and emails And then I was scared because this is a lot. This is so overwhelming. You're now carrying people's stories People are now disclosing to me and they're telling me. It's just you my doctor and me who know And now I felt I felt like a priest You know how people go to priests and they confess to them. So I felt like that like all of this before all of them telling me I'm HIV positive too. I read the story. Oh my god. It was so overwhelming so I Finally now realized that I had actually publicly told people that I am HIV positive And also because there is one story that stood out for me where the man he was a man who Was living with HIV and married and he told me that he has lived with HIV for eight years And had never told his wife that he was HIV positive and his wife did not know that he was on treatment So he was just taking he used to take his medication from the office So he will take his medication come back home. So everything looks all right So he did not know his wife's HIV status And but he knew his status and he was taking medication very secretly Then I realized that the HIV conversation is a conversation. We have not held publicly in my country in kenya Way back in the early 2000s. There were so many there were posters and billboards across the country of a man who is very thin and dying And it was written AIDS hills. So it was written in both english and swahili And people still have that picture about people living with HIV. They think they look like that to date So I realized we have never had that conversation with the general population for people living with HIV So once you get diagnosed It is your story. It is your journey. It is you living with HIV and nobody else knows about it So I started sharing my story on facebook and telling people I was born with HIV and the stigma was there But at this point I had reached that point of fully accepting that I am HIV positive And the people will tell me mean things and people will ask will will Drag me and do all of those things But I had to my mission literally at that point was I have to tell this story So that another person who is struggling and is living in secrecy knows that In as much as they don't know they're all almost 39 million people living in HIV globally They know one person and that that is that is comforting enough for them So I kept sharing and sharing my story and to be honest with you where I am right now is not a If you take me back to 2015 I would not have thought that this would be where I am I still wanted to be an air hostess I still wanted to I I did not know that this is how this is the path that we were going to go to In my head. I was still like no actually in my first interview. I think I told the interviewer I want to be an air hostess when I grow up. I want to change time zones That was the dream But then I realized that in my own small way Through my social media platforms. I was healing people and just that waking up and telling them you are a beautiful story It makes sense to somebody It gets somebody to test for HIV because testing is an issue And that is because of the stigma because once I turn positive then what next? Where do I go? How does my life become after that diagnosis? So and the other aspect was the treatment fatigue caused by The self stigma I had it's because When you have different medication, you're told you're going to take them for the rest of your life The rest of your life is a very long time So you start imagining I will be on treatment for 40 years Especially when you're a 13 year old girl And you are like no There is no so it becomes a burden to you because you're like the rest of my life is hard I feel like I'm carrying something on my back and it is so heavy and I can't keep going with it So I I I try as much as possible to change people's perspective that stop looking at taking medication for the next five years Look at today. You took today's dose That is what matters today. We have suppressed our virus Tomorrow is another day. We will think about tomorrow when tomorrow arrives Because if you start looking at it that 10 years, I will still be taking airways 20 years You will stop taking them today because you will feel that the fatigue Your mental health is just going to to go crazy How do you think you got to the point where you were able to Come to the conclusion. Okay. I need to look at it one day at a time. What happened to get to that point Actually, it's when I went back to treatment because also even when I went back to treatment I was still taking medication skipping taking skipping and then I realized that The thing is I am making this a big deal because I And I know that this might not reason it to everyone But I was like I have never been HIV negative So I can't say that I miss a life that I was not taking treatment that has never been my life My story has always been I was Like literally I started going to hospitals from as young as six months all the way So even if I if I start looking behind I'm going to fall back If I look too far ahead, I am also going to fall back. So I have to look at today And I handle today Whatever today brings we are handling today like it is Tomorrow is a different day. I do not want to stress about it because And the thing is I usually tell people that you know amount of Cancelling no amount of therapy No amount of people encouraging you will save you from you sometimes you have to do the job Sometimes you just have to be honest to yourself and tell yourself a I made a positive. It is what it is Let me just Take this treatment one day at a time because you're like a lot of people Especially newly diagnosed come to me and they're like can I go back and live a normal life? And I tell them but what is normal because Ever since you got diagnosed you've eaten. You've taken a shower. You've brushed your teeth You have gone for a walk. So what is normal? You have gone to work. So The the time normal usually a lot of people say it's there's no normal life with HIV But what is normal because I I do that everything like the like people who are living who are not HIV positive I do that Why HIV negative? I do the same things with them. The only difference is I have to take my air vent Which is one pill that I take just somewhere Around the day and it does not take an hour. It's let's it's seconds literally So normal to you Is not normal to another person so If it's can I continue with life the way it was of course you can Because the only thing you have to add now for more convenience for you to be strong and healthy Is the air be that is literally the only element you have to add into your life, but because of the stigma We still have not reached a point of that mentality for everyone There are people who still struggle there people who still have those days where You wake up and you feel like I don't feel like taking my treatment today I don't feel like going to the clinic today. I actually never knew that somebody would Struggle to go to the clinic to pick the air base until it happened to me and I was like, yeah It does happen. So it's normal. It's literally like a normal human being thing So but it doesn't mean that you are a bad patient because ideally sometimes you'll go to the hospital and they'll be like Yeah, you missed clinic. You're supposed to come yesterday. You've come today So I don't know that yesterday you woke up and he just really didn't feel like going to the hospital They don't know that I know it's supposed to be part of the journey part of the routine And the same way I tell people with the air base their days. You will not feel like taking them They are days. It is practical. It is very normal. You will feel like that, but it does not mean that you stop Not feeling like doing something does not mean stop doing it. It just means I was supposed to take my medication at one Can I give myself one more hour to feel to just get that energy? Because how I will be feeling in the next hour is very different and then you take your treatment I know that sometimes and I speak this because I know a lot of people feel like all the renew are always just Osam in your life is cool and you don't get tired with HIV Besides you were born with it. So, you know, you can't you can't have that self stigma and whatnot But no, it's there and it's real And you you you will get you will get very tired in the journey of living HIV It is long and it is lonely and you only have to do it by yourself unfortunately But it does not mean and I think also I think also that part of the part of that is having a routine because routine takes the emotional aspect out of it It's just going about your day like brushing your teeth. I know it's not the same thing But once it's just a part of your day Then emotion kind of is not as big of a factor. It's not attached to it No, actually, I get you once it's part of your routine You honestly don't see it as a big deal You you that aspect of it being a big deal just it just kind of goes away And people a lot of things that worry most people Is the aspect of other people How what will other people say how will they think will I be able to date? Will I be able to marry can I tell my sexual partner that this has happened to me? And I do tell people that until you actually accept yourself It's going to be very tricky for other people to accept you because other people will treat you how you treat yourself Whether you like it or not You it is a huge job like it this most of it is a huge job So the other people will just be there like you you're going to be there feeling sad and sorry And they're going to be to feel sad and sorry with you And then you will be like but I don't want them to feel sad and sorry for me But you the energy you are giving is sad and sorry So they're giving that back to you That's it because even when I'm with my friend 99% of the time I don't even think that they sit down and think like oh Doreen have you taken treatment? They don't even remind me to take my treatment because they know Like we are not all about oh, how are you feeling? Oh my god This is a lot of people complain to me that I don't want people to feel sad and sorry for me But are you feeling sad and sorry for yourself because that is what people will give you So if you give yourself love If you accept yourself if you take your treatment Nobody is even going to both are you that oh you feelings and even when somebody says something mean it will not bother you Would you say that your experience and having to overcome all these things and learn all these things? Um actually helped you to grow as a person not just hiv, but in general It it did it it first of all helped me to Live my best life like like literally just live life to the fullest why because People expected to be to be so life limiting But it's not it is you who gives it the power to limit you or not because if you You joke around with your adherence It means that constantly you're going to be sick Which means that constantly you will not get to enjoy the life as it is and sometimes people think that enjoying the life is more of Like living large and grand. No, it's basically that waking up and being happy and not having that feeling of Something weighing you down and now you're down the whole day. Now you're stressed the whole time No, it is just that feeling of happiness and you you you just wake up and you just Going around your day as a happy fulfilled person in life And it it did help me because now I started viewing life from a point of view of at one point The doctors actually sent me home to die And prepared my parents Psychologically she is going to die So it is up to me to ensure that what was said about me. I brought prove it right So I have to I have to leave it up every day So it did help me to once I reached the acceptance stage It actually did help me in viewing life in general from a very different perspective and from a very different angle and The the actual part of getting over self stigma is the fact that now It doesn't weigh you down You don't feel some type away and I know a lot of people think that uh Overcoming self stigma involves living publicly with HIV, but it's not about that. It's more about being able to tell a person Questioning you what are those medications you're taking and telling them? Oh, there are risks and you continue with your life as if nothing happened. Like it's not a big deal It's not it's all shocking news or breaking news. But um What is it called? But when you have not yet accepted yourself you will start feeling that Everybody around you you will start saying everybody around you like even if they don't say anything Even if they make a joke about HIV you're going to be like, yeah, that is targeting me I'm probably it had nothing nothing at all to do with you So I know that respect in society in general But also how you carry yourself will determine how society will carry because uh, I think one time my brother was Telling me he used to live in Botswana. So he was telling me how his friend just uh One time he was talking to his friend and his friend was like he was like, oh, I haven't seen you all morning His friend was just like I haven't just from the hospital to take my air base And my brother was so shocked about how casual his friend was Because in Kenya We literally used to travel to another town where nobody knows you to pick your air base from there So imagine when it's your clinic dates and you don't have transport money It means you're skipping that clinic date I did and it's not because there is no clinic near you. There is a clinic near you But you can't go there because there people don't know the nurse knows you There's the cleaning lady knows you so you don't want to To bump into somebody who knows you and that is something we did for a long time. My mom and I But we travel like literally travel two hours three hours Just to pick air v's or to pick septrine Because we could not take air v's from a town nearby Because from the town nearby people knew that we were people will know that you are HIV positive And still that did not stop people the rumors Because the rumors were there the rumors were always there and it's something I tell people that Stop worrying about what people will say because people will always have something to say Even when you die and because you stop taking treatment or you never started treatment They will still come to your funeral and they will still be there judging you for not taking treatment So you better just take the treatment and stay alive Like that is what I usually tell people take the treatment stay alive if they keep talking about you Whether you're alive. It is okay. But because it's it's people's nature. But are you at peace with your status? Once you're at peace once you reach that point and it's not it's not a one-day job Acceptance is not a one-day job. It is an everyday job because you can I can also wake up tomorrow And I am overwhelmed and I don't want to accept that I'm HIV positive It can happen like that. So it's a change in mentality that every day you wake up you're choosing to love life Even if you're living with HIV, which absolutely there is nothing wrong with it But people still have not yet reached where we would want them to see us As fellow human beings But I always remind people who don't have HIV that Remember you are you have a 50 chance of becoming HIV positive So every time you're having unprotected sex with someone That's chance your percentage keeps decreasing because you don't probably don't know their status Probably there's no protection being used. So stop laughing at people living with HIV because you can easily find yourself on the other side Yeah, and for the person living with HIV, I think it's important Something that happens as you become an adult for me personally it was a realization that Other people especially older people adults aren't necessarily right Because I think as a child you're taught like okay, listen listen to your elders listen to adults They know better they're more educated. They've had more life experience. So I always just I would assume that Adults were right that people around me if if if a multiple of people or if the majority of people Felt a certain way or thought a certain way. It was like there must be something right to that So if people are, you know, feeling negatively towards me, then they must have a valid reason So I need to make figure out what that is But if like you said you have a sense of self a sense of who you are Then you can stand there and say Even if I'm in a room with a hundred people and every single one of those persons Looks negatively at me because I'm living with HIV. I know that they are all wrong and I am the only right one Yeah, true. So it definitely takes a sense of self It definitely is sense of self like you you have to reach that point where People's opinions don't get to you because especially now that I do social media advocacy Where everybody has an opinion Everybody has an opinion. I have been told don't take your treatment publicly I have been told why do you share your status? Why can't you just live with it secretly like everybody else? I have been told how many people have I infected with HIV? I have been accused of Lying to innocent men a lot of things have been said So imagine if I left all of those comments every day Because it's every day Imagine if I let them get at me and now I'm going to bed at night and I'm crying I'm saying oh today this person accused me of infecting multiple people with HIV. You see it's people They were created to talk. So let them say whatever they have to say I don't think that there's ever a way that you could behave or or act or speak that would please everyone There's always going to be someone who has something negative to say it could be mother Teresa Mother Teresa could be on social media and people would have negative things to say to her I agree with you about that Like it doesn't matter who you are and it doesn't matter what you're doing people People will just always say something that is where the most important person you have to work on is you As long as you accept as long as you you want to live this life To the fullest and you love life wake up and I tell people every day What's the wake up today? Wake up and choose to love life and disclosure will happen It's a process It's not a one-day job You don't have to tell everybody in your family that you are living with HIV Because still stigma can start in the family center So you don't have to tell everyone until you are ready to tell them then don't tell them Like don't give yourself so much pressure about who do I disclose to who do I not tell Where do I go? Can I find a partner? Yes, you can find a partner like my parents or a whole discounted couple So trust me you can always find a partner and he does not he or she or they or them They don't have to be HIV negative Sorry HIV positive like you sometimes they can be HIV negative and how do you tell them? Again, I tell people tell tell the person you are with when it is right by you But don't put them at any risk Knowingly that you're going to tell them at one point So just say as early as possible because I've been left for just telling people that I'm HIV positive I have been left along the way and I was told I'll talk to you. I'll I'll give you a call and He never called me back So rejection will happen and at least and sometimes I joke about it and tell people At least you've been left with a reason and I said they left you because you're HIV positive There are people who the HIV negative people are left with it's not you it's me and that is not me So just like you know, so don't Don't always put the burden of life or rather whatever goes wrong in your life on your HIV status Your HIV status is a tiny part of your life and there is so much more about life that you can explore And work on that has nothing to do with living in HIV So living in HIV is a tiny part of your life The rest of the other parts that you work you have to work with work with that But don't don't all it's not a personality that you're on a first date and you're thinking How do I tell them? Do I go home? Do I ask? No, I usually tell people your first date is for eating things you don't eat at home That is not for disclosing. You will disclose the second date Do not disclose on the first date it's a bad idea It's it's the things you don't eat at home, but Ideally like relationships and HIV it's it's a thing it's it it worries a lot of people But you again that sense of self has to make you reach a point and say Whatever happens with this partner. It's fine if they're not mine. They're not mine because You could probably have been HIV negative and they will still have rejected you So rejection happens to every human being Don't put it around that you can have children You can live the life you want to live your HIV status is not a limiting factor to that So I wish that one day because recently I was asked a question that In a perfect world Removing the HIV Q and L in a perfect world What will I want to see from in the HIV response? And I said I would love to see a world with no stigma A world that has so much love to give That we are not looked upon like some like we're not side-eyed for living with HIV That that will be my perfect world like that would be my wish that There is so much love from people around the world that they look at their friends at their relatives at their partners And they don't see the HIV. They don't see the virus. They just see the person The person they're related to the person they love and it's not limiting to them And for the person living with HIV to look at themselves and they see the ring and not the virus like when I look at myself in the mirror I don't see the virus. I just see the room but I wish for everyone to reach that point Okay, very very well said you are a very Proficient elegant and funny speaker. So thank you for that. Thank you for driving this conversation I barely had to do anything. I just sat back and let you take the wheel But we're coming up on our time today. I I took so many notes and I have there's so much more that I would love to talk to you about So I definitely Want to bring you back on and I have a feeling that my audience is gonna just adore you and love everything that you had to say So like I want to talk about Yes, I want to talk about I would like to go more in depth into dating and disclosure and Herbal medicines and dealing with that as well and and and your thoughts about cure and And and so forth. So there's there's a lot more to touch base on thank you again for for coming on today It's been a pleasure Oh before we go, uh, how can people follow you and or your work? So on social media across all channels. So I am on facebook as during mora moracha It's a verified account. So Yeah, uh, I'm on instagram again during underscore mora underscore moracha on twitter I am at d a single d underscore mora On linkedin. I'm during moracha on youtube during mora moracha and on On tiktok, uh during mora moracha as well. So That that is me, uh, and all I talk about is Maybe I will put I will put links to all those in the description box below this video so people can easily find out Another thing I want to talk about is your latest endeavor into formal Education and training in the space too. I think that's something that would be really enlightening And I would love to get your insights and as you learn things too to come on and talk about that And especially women in hiv too. Okay See I could just go on a tangent with you So bring me back again bring me back again. Absolutely. For sure. It's gonna happen Doreen a huge thank you to you for being so gracious with your time and expertise and your experience everyone at home Thank you so much for watching Please like this video if you liked it subscribe if you haven't already and hit that bell So you get a notification every time a new video comes out And please share this with anyone who might find value in this content That is the best way that you can support me and my channel until next time. Cheers Bye