 James Swannick here from Swannick. Great to see you here and we're joined today by Emma Smith, who is a registered nurse in Australia and the co-founder of a great group and community named The Other Shift, which helps shift workers with their sleep and with their energy and with their clarity and with their focus. Emma, it's great to have you here. Thanks. Thanks for having us. I'm so excited. Tell us, actually, before you tell us about The Other Shift, if you're watching now and you're joining on Facebook or YouTube, go ahead and leave a comment and tell us where you are watching from. And if you have a question about night shift work or about sleep, whether you should nap or during the day or when's the best time to sleep and how do you relax and repair when you're doing night shifts all the time, then go ahead and post a comment or post a question and Emma and I will do our best to answer that. So just tell us a little bit about The Other Shift, Emma. Yeah, sorry. I've been nursing for 10 years and I specialised in emergency nursing sort of after about four years into my nursing career. So I've been learning about emergency medicine and you see lots of things as a nurse. People, you know, you go on your break at nine o'clock in the morning and someone will buy some hot chips because they've just come off night shift and that's what they have for breakfast. So then they're sluggish all day and then they complain that they can't sleep. So you see that sort of extreme and then you see people that are meal planning and they're so diligent, they're organised and they've got this amazing sleep routine set up. So you're seeing sort of both ends of the spectrum. So it's interesting for the last two years we've been living in America, my husband and I and we've watched a lot of NBA and we've been able to experience a wonderful life over in America and it's talking to friends back at home. It's given me, you know, to learn about what's hearing about things, what's happening back in Melbourne, back in my workplace and thinking back to the struggles and I guess the routine of what people have had back in my, when they were nursing. It's given me a bit of a different perspective on that some people do the shift work thing really well and some people don't. So as I've had a bit of time in America and why I've been waiting for visa paperwork and things to come back, it's, I thought what can I do to help? What can I do to help these people and these night shift workers sort of live a healthier lifestyle. And so one day I just had an epiphany when I was in America and thought I can start a website. I didn't know a thing about website development. I didn't know a thing about this sort of world. I'm a nurse. I don't do tech stuff but I thought okay, I can do this. So yeah, so we started this website and it's a blog based website but we answer individual questions and we help in any way we can. So we help people who work night shift, who work a rotating roster, maybe people who work day shift or swing shift, whatever. All the non-traditional shifts is where we like to help people with. So I like to get a range of different people. So I know healthcare and I know nursing, but I don't know other things. Dan, my husband, he did a bit of night shift there for two years or so. And he was in an office job. So we got a bit of a different perspective on shift work. So yeah, it's really exciting what we do and I like that I'm still a nurse now. I'm just about to go to a shift when we're finished here. So it's good that I can get some real life experience and put it into a blog and it's not all, no, it's not made up. It's real life experience that I can actually give people. So it's a genuine thing and I'm really excited. What's a typical shift that you might work as a registered nurse? Anything. So generally in our emergency department, it's broken down into three main shifts. So there's a seven till 3.30. And then there's an afternoon shift that's from 1.30 till 10 ish. And then there's a night shift that runs from about 9 o'clock, 9 o'clock, 9.30 till 7 in the morning. And then there's a couple of random shifts in between. So there might be a five o'clock start that finishes at 1 o'clock just to cover sort of meal breaks and things. But generally it's broken up into those three shifts. So 7 a.m. until 3.30 in the afternoon, 1.30 p.m. until 10 at night and 9 p.m. until 7 a.m. And the way that they schedule you, can it be the same time slot for many weeks or days at a time or does it change all the time? Give us an example. Yeah, it changes. So I might work three day shifts in a row. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday could be day shift. And then they'll on the Thursday, they'll put me on an afternoon. And then I might have four days off. Then after my four days off, I might do three night shifts. And then I might have one day off and then I'll go back onto a p.m. So it's totally random. Some nurses really like to work night shift. And they just want to do that constantly. But my boss likes everyone to understand what happens in every shift. So look, they may do 60% nights. But then my boss will say, no, no, you need to see what happens in the daytime. So they'll put them on a day shift. And they hate it. We've got a couple of questions here. So I'll assume everyone can hear you. So Sarah on Facebook says, is Emma wearing swanik glasses too? Sure am. Sure am. I love these ones because they don't get caught in my hair. If I put them on my head, they don't get caught in my hair. I wear these. I don't know what I did before without looking at a computer or looking at my device. I constantly wear these. I think I'm wearing swanik more than when I'm not wearing them. So I flick between these ones and my night swanis. Anytime I'm at home, pretty much just before I'm going to go to sleep after a shift, I switch to the ones that you're wearing. I think we've lost your sound, Emma. I thought it may have been me at one point, but I don't think others can hear you at the moment as well, as what I'm being told. Can you hear me now? Is that better or not? Oh no. Actually, Melanie says that we're fine actually. So if you're watching live, apologies for this delay, but I just can't hear you, but that's okay. I'm being told what you're saying and I know it's wonderful. Can you hear me now? I'm glad that you can hear me from now, Emma. So I'm curious, like you were saying like 7 to 3.30, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 1.30 to 10 on Tuesday, 9 to 7. That has to be disruptive for your sleep patterns and for your circadian rhythm, like being all over the place like that. Just tell us how taxing that can be on the body. Really taxing. It's unfortunate that we haven't evolved into shift work warriors and despite how long shift work jobs have been around, it's really unfortunate for us that our body clock hasn't allowed us to... It's fine to be asleep during the day and to be awake at night. It's unfortunate that hasn't happened for us, but it can be really taxing and it can be incredibly frustrating that you can't fall asleep after you've been working for a 12-hour night shift and you get home and you can't sleep. It can be incredibly frustrating. When you work those shifts, how taxing is it on relationships as well? Because I would imagine that having your husband Dan working on them, it sounds like a more stable shift. How does that affect the dynamic of a relationship? Yeah, you really learn to communicate and you learn to find a new normal, particularly in our intimate relationships. With my husband, we have to find ways that we can connect and be comfortable talking like this or using different devices to be able to communicate. It's funny from a nursing perspective for the guys that are watching. Connie, I can see you on YouTube. It's interesting that you start to make friends with other shift workers, and particularly in the nursing world, you start to make friends with people who understand your schedule. You lose a few friends and I know that when I started working shift work, you do lose a few because they just don't understand your schedule. You have to become comfortable with catching up with people at odd times, so you may have breakfast dates or you may catch up with people and have dinner at 4.30 because that's just what works for someone with kids. You learn to find a new normal, but it isn't impossible. I'm in a very happy marriage and it's proven that you can do it. It just looks a bit different. Emma, I'm watching you and I'm reading your lips, but I still can't hear you, but I've been told reliably that other people can on YouTube and Facebook. I'm just going to ask some questions as I see them come in. I'm not going to be able to hear your answers at the moment, but I'm not even going to try to pretend to people watching on Facebook and YouTube that I understand what you're saying. Let me just ask some of the questions here and you will get to share. We have someone on Facebook who's saying, I'm a telephone exchange operator at a hotel. I work at night. What if someone is going all the way through starting at night time and going through until 6 a.m.? I say it's a 10 p.m. until 6 a.m. shift or you mentioned there a 9 p.m. until 7 a.m. shift. What should they do to prepare for that sleep and when should they actually be going to sleep and how should they sleep after they finish their shift at 7 a.m. in order that their back and fresh and their body is working the way the body is supposed to be working. Just talk us through best practices for that shift. Yes, there's a lot of things. Thank you for the question. I don't know your name who ever asked that, but thank you for the question. There's a lot of things that come into organising yourself for that shift. Firstly, I'd ask how many night shifts you're on at one go? If this is just a one-off shift, the preparation may look different to if you're working four night shifts in a row. Let's say for this example that you are working four night shifts in a row. If I was in the same situation as you, we start at a similar time. In terms of sleep preparation, you could for the first couple of days before you start night shift, you can start going to bed a little bit later. For normal time that you'd go to sleep is 9 o'clock at night. You may stretch that out for two hours. Go to sleep at 11 o'clock and then you progressively, for the couple of days leading up, you start to progressively move your sleep from 11. Then you might go to sleep at 1 o'clock. Then you might go to sleep at 2 o'clock to progressively look like a night shift worker before you even start. Then when you do start your shift, it's not such a big shock and your body is, I guess, I call it going into meltdown. By 6 o'clock, you can't even get in your car to drive home. That's one method. The other method, I don't usually do that because I'm on a rotating roster and I'm generally working night shift, sorry, afternoon or day shift the night before. How I do it is I have, let's say I was starting your shift on a Monday morning. On the Sunday night, I go to bed at normal time but then like to have a big sleep in. I then like to do all my housework. I do a bit of meal prep and work out in the afternoon. Then I get to about 4.30, 5 o'clock in the afternoon and I have a really big nap. I have a nice nutritious dinner before I go to a shift and then I would start work. There's a couple of different ways that you can organise this night shift routine. You just have to find out what works for you. James, I think you were saying that during the shift, what you can do, sorry if you could just remind me, but during the shift, I guess what you can do to get yourself to be able to sleep and approach your next shift with a lot of energy is to, from a meal perspective, is before you leave for a shift, make sure you're having a big nutritious meal. It's full of veggies. I like to think of as many veggies and colour as I can in a meal, some protein, some healthy fats. Eat that before you leave for a shift and then throughout the shift, your digestive system slows. It basically goes to sleep. As I was saying, our body clock is all dependent on the light. When the sun goes down, our digestive system, it effectively goes to sleep and doesn't really want us to eat anything. Eating small little snacks throughout the night is much better than having a second dinner, as it was always referred to me when I started nursing it two o'clock at night. It's much better to have maybe some hummus with some carrot and some celery dipped in, or a handful of almonds, some soup because it's super hydrating, is a much better thing to have between the hours of midnight and six o'clock. If you do get hungry, I'd recommend eating those sorts of foods. Then just before you're going to go to sleep, when you get home, I recommend having a small breakfast. A lot of people aren't hungry at this point and just go to sleep, but the problem with this is you wake up at about midday and you're so hungry. Then you go and eat, you open all the blinds, you're exposing your eyes to, you're waking up that melatonin. If you do try to go back to sleep after you've eaten this meal, it can be really, really difficult. I'm a big advocate for having a tiny breakfast, even if that's just a cup of hot milk. I totally recommend doing this before you go to sleep. Emma, I have a question here from someone watching on Facebook who asks, for weight loss, should you eat directly after a shift? If you're finishing work at 7am in the morning, say, should you be eating then? Or when is the best time to eat if you're looking for weight loss? Because everyone, you still have to eat right, but when is the right time to do it compared to when you go to sleep, for example? Yeah, so he can't hear me, but I did touch on this earlier. Emma, for weight loss, after 6pm. Well, I suppose it depends what shift you're on. Yeah, it depends sort of what shift you're on. But I think the important thing is just to have something small before you're going to go to sleep. Yeah, so I'll just keep going just about the food thing. What I thought was so interesting when I first started working nights. Can you hear me, James? Yeah, I can. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Welcome back. Yes, now I can finally hear you. That was like challenging. I'm sure that what you were saying was genius, everything about it. I didn't hear one word that you said for the past 10 minutes, but I know it was amazing, but now I can hear you just perfectly. Thank you for your patience with that, and thank you for everyone who's watching on Facebook and YouTube as well. I was a little bit without sound. Carry on, please, Emma. In the previous question, I talked about food a little bit, so James, I was just saying that our digestive system between when the sun's down and when it's dark outside, our digestive system basically goes to sleep, and it has a little rest. So the more that we eat during that period of time can cause bloating, we get really tired during those hours. So we tend to eat foods that are, well, we're drawn to foods that are high in carbohydrates. The pizza smells really good. The burger down the road smells really good, and that's what we want to eat because that's where we get our energy from. But we may get energy for the first, maybe half an hour, you feel really good. But then after that, you just fall into a massive hole. So I find the biggest in terms of your weight loss question that people generally put on weight or night shift because we, one, we overeat. Two, we eat too fast because we may not get a break or we get a really short break because it could be busy. So we eat as much food as we can. We overeat, but our digestive system is asleep. So it can cause a lot of bloating. We're drawn to foods that are really high in sugar again for that energy hit. So as an alternative, eating foods like the hummus with the veggies or the soups that have got lots of veggies in it that are super hydrating or a couple of almonds is a much better choice than maybe a pack of lollies. We're talking about Smith from The Other Shift. If you've got a question on Facebook or YouTube, go ahead and post your comment or your question down below. Rob on Facebook says, shout out to Emma and all the frontliers during this time. Thanks, Rob. Yeah, big shout out to Emma. It must feel nice to get people acknowledging, are you, I'm sure you always have people acknowledging you, but maybe especially so during this time. Is that correct or not? Yeah, it feels odd. It's really nice. It's really lovely and it's very humbling to see nurses on the front page of Vogue, for example, last week. I just think that's really cool. It's very humbling. Yeah. We go to work for this. You can learn more about Emma at theothershift.com. If you go to theothershift.com, you can learn more about Emma and circadian rhythms and night shift and day shift working. What has been the biggest leverage point for you? Do you feel in improving your sleep quality as someone who works shifts? What's the biggest thing? I know there are a number of things, but if you had to say, if you could only do one thing to improve your sleep, your sleep quality, to improve your quality of life as a shift worker, what would that one thing be? Well, I'm sort of going to make it two, and I'm not answering question, but two things for a shift worker. One, you have to prioritise it. Prioritise it and be positive that you can do it. Everyone will say, oh, no, I can't do that. I couldn't work night shift. I couldn't do this. In your mind, you already think I can't do it because everyone tells you they can't. It is possible to do it, but you have to do things like light, protecting yourself from the light. I think that's probably one of my main takeaways and how I've improved my sleep and how I have enough energy to keep doing what I'm doing is that being really aware of the light at particular shifts. For example, if I come home from night shift, I immediately now, I immediately close all the curtains and I put on my swannies, the night swannies, what you're wearing, I put them on immediately as I'm having a small breakfast, as I'm brushing my teeth, as I'm getting ready for bed. I'm very, very cautious of putting these on. Whereas in the past, I never knew swannies even existed. So you might, you know, you make breakfast, you put the tally on and you wind down after a shift, which is natural and even nine to five workers, everyone needs to wind down after a shift. So that could look like scrolling on your phone, looking at Instagram, looking at the TV, whatever. But I just think being really aware of the light in that preparation time, but then importantly, if you need to get up and maybe use the bathroom or you get hungry at midday to continue to close the curtains and don't turn the lights on, it seems really unnatural that you wake up and you stumbling around the house trying to not look into walls. But I think that bit's really important that if you do wake up in the middle of the day to keep everything really dark. And alternatively, if you are on a shift, it may be really tempting to turn the lights off. Because it's night shift, you might be working, I'm using a nursing example, but even if as a security guard to turn all the lights off where you are, but this is what your body wants. Your body wants to be in darkness at two o'clock in the morning. This is what your body naturally wants. So as a night shift worker, you have to keep the lights on. You've got to tell you, you've got to prevent your hormones like melatonin from actually doing its job. So I think the light and being aware of that's probably my biggest takeaway. Vami Sharkey on Facebook asks, doesn't the orange tint in the Swanee's glasses affect the way you see things? Yeah, it does. And you have to get used to seeing people on TV with a tan. It is a little bit weird. And I guess when I first started wearing them, it's more orange than what I was expecting. But it's funny, Vani, after a little while you don't even really notice it. Like after you've been wearing it for even an hour, I don't even notice it. So there we go. Here we go. There you go. We've got a nice tan. It's just like putting an Instagram filter in your life. I have it. My tan is even better than President Donald Trump's tan at the moment. Look at that. I mean, it's one of those things you just get used to. It might seem a little jarring at first. You're like, whoa. But then after about five minutes, you're like, oh, yeah. And in fact, I find it more jarring. I watch a little bit of TV before I go to sleep each night. I think Netflix gets a bad rap because everyone's like, oh, you shouldn't be watching Netflix before you go to sleep. Well, I say watch Netflix before you go to sleep. But as long as you're wearing a pair of blue light blocking glasses like the Swanis. So I am at the moment, I'm watching a TV series called Ozark and on Netflix, the TV series. And, you know, I watched probably about it ranges from a half an episode to two thirds of an episode each night. And then the next night, I'll finish the second half of the episode or finish the last third. So I'm probably watching either 30 or 40 minutes of an episode of night. I like it to watch it just to just to wind down. I absolutely am wearing my Swanis blue light blocking glasses as I'm doing so on those rare occasions where I've taken the glasses off while watching this show for whatever reason, I can't think of why sometimes I just go to like test it. It's super jarring to watch the actual show on the screen without the glasses. Like when I wear the glasses, I'm like, oh, everything is like relaxing. I find that through I put them on and I just I'm instantly relaxed. It's instant for me that I didn't necessarily get headaches before and I don't wear prescription glasses, but it's just an instant calm, particularly after a night or particularly when you've had a big shift. I just it's incredibly relaxing on my eyes. Yeah. Yeah, I find it jarring to look at a screen now without them. I mean, look, strictly speaking, I don't need to be wearing these right now because it's the daytime at seven 30 in the morning where we are in Australia. So I might put my daytime glasses on, which are up on my bookshelf behind me. But having said that, now I'm wearing them in the daytime and blocking that artificial blue light. I'm just, you know, it's it's fine. I'm feeling I'm feeling good. You look great. I think I look pretty good when everything's fine. It's not like a weird, not a weird look. It's not it's just just how it looks. So I hope that helps, Vanny. Thank you so much for the question. We have a question here from Ja on Facebook who asks, what are some tips for insomniacs to have a better sleep? So thanks, Sean. So beside the light, big light thing I was talking about before, as a if you are an insomniac, I'm sure you've tried many, many things in the past. So I don't mean to insult you saying the following things. But there's a couple of things if you are a shift worker and you are an insomniac is to first find a routine for yourself. So I'll tell you what a potential routine could be for you is when you if you are working a night shift or whatever, it doesn't really matter if you day or night, but when you come in from the house, put on your 20s or just jump in straight in the shower. I want to get these scrubs off as soon as possible. So I just jump straight in the shower, nice, warm shower, have some breakfast, maybe watch a little bit of TV, however, or however you want to wind down, if that's reading a book or that's scrolling your phone, watching Netflix, whatever you want to do. And then set a time limit for yourself. So don't put on a full length movie when you don't have time for it. So to start prioritizing sleep a little bit and stick to the same routine every time. So consistency, I think, is what has allowed me to get seven to nine hours of sleep consistently, even as a shift worker. Obviously, some shifts just don't allow for seven to nine hours. But I think having a routine is one thing. Another thing that you could use is trying a diffuser. So using sort of lavender oil or essential oils through a diffuser in your bedroom. I found recently, I've been using the Headspace app, which have got some really good sort of mindfulness meditation stuff before you go to sleep. So you could put headphones in or even put it on speaker at your bedside table. Some of them are super short, like even two minutes, three minutes might be all you need just to distract your mind from the shift you've had. So there's heaps of audio things that you can use. So there's adult storybooks, meditation or just meditative music. You can use white noise machines. You can actually get by a white noise machine. Or I've recently just been using my one week diffuser actually, turn the light off and just have the diffuser going and the noise is almost like a white noise for me. And it just, it's not silent. Shift workers are sometimes complain about the silence that it's just too quiet, particularly if you've got blackout blinds or, you know, you've made a bedroom for yourself in the basement because you've got kids and the house is just too noisy. So you may actually need some noise, which sounds ridiculous, but yeah, that could help. Other things that I use is just drinking a little bit of hot milk before I go to sleep. I don't know if that just brings back nice childhood memories of having warm milk, but that seems to work for me. Avoiding caffeine five to six hours before your shift ends. So that's obviously going to look different for everyone, but don't have a coffee on your way home. I know the amount of times that I've, this is shameful to say, but I've got in my car and I don't remember how I've got home because I've been so tired. It's so tempting to drive past McDonald's or get a dollar coffee from 7-Eleven, but really avoid doing that on the way home. If you are super tired, just pull over and have a nap. Set your alarm for 10 minutes and yeah, I'd recommend that. What else to have? Oh, my other thing is to have clean sheets and a pillow that you love. Again, this sounds stupid and as an insomniac, this might sound ridiculous to say, but if you really hate your sheets, they itch you, they're too hot. Your pillow is too flat, like your actual bedding. If you don't like it, you're going into bed every night with this negative mindset that, oh, God, I should have changed my sheets and I've forgotten and now I'm annoyed. I'm already annoyed before I get into bed. So I'd recommend if that's you, then go shopping this weekend. And sort of the last thing is you, if you work a really tiresome job and you're on your feet a lot, you could get home and your feet are absolutely killing you. So this often happens to me. So I do a, you might have seen it, a little yoga pose that you put your butt right up against the wall and you elevate your feet up against the wall for a couple of minutes and just let that blood drain from your legs. And I find that when I get into bed, my legs aren't aching and sore as, you know, if I hadn't have done that. And I guess lastly from a social perspective is to, as a shift worker, you've got to still do the things that you really love and you've got to see the people and make contact with the people that make you happy. Because if you don't want to go to bed guilty and think that you, you know, you might not have seen anyone by your work colleagues in, you know, two weeks. So in your downtime, in your commute to work, like call someone, make contact with the outside world or people that are not shift workers or just someone that makes you laugh, someone that makes you happy. I think that can be, it can take away the stress and sort of normalise your job. We're talking to Emma Smith from The Other Shift and you can find Emma and The Other Shift on Facebook at facebook.com slash The Other Shift. Or if you just type in The Other Shift on Facebook and you can also go to theothershift.com. Emma was just mentioning the swanic diffuser. We put a link up down below and you can have a look in the comments there as well where you can check out that diffuser, which is a great way to run some aromatherapy and to relax at the end of the day. I remember I interviewed someone once when I was a journalist back in the day and they said the two most important things that someone should buy are shoes and a bed because if you're not in one, then you're in the other. I thought that was quite clever. So in terms of a bed, how do you set up your bed at home for optimal sleep? Well, I spent a bit of money on a pillow previously before shift work. I didn't really care about what pillow I slept, but I saved a bit of money and I bought one. I think it was about $100, but from in the world of pillows, that's a pretty pricey pillow where you get one from Kmart for $20. And I absolutely love it and I instantly feel rested when I go to sleep. So good pillow, good sheets. I recently bought a linen quilt, like linen duna cover and I find that really nice. It's not itchy on my neck. We changed the curtains in our bedroom to be more a blackout curtain. I took away a lot of the things in my bedroom that created noise in my head. So we were moving house, so it was difficult to sleep, but we had a lot of boxes and storage and maybe like a clothes that needed to be put away or just like things in my room that created noise. I just cleared it all away. So it's in there. It's just bedside table, my bed and a wardrobe. Like I haven't got other things around and I find that it's peaceful for my brain. This isn't really relevant to me, but my sister's also a shift worker and she painted her room red and for a good six months she had red walls and she found that she wasn't really sleeping. So she painted it all white and she instantly felt more relaxed, particularly after a shift. So that I haven't actually tried that personally myself, but if you do have like lots of things on your walls and maybe bright, you know, red or green or whatever the color in your bedroom is and you're not sleeping, like consider painting your walls just like a natural color and you might find that it's a little bit more relaxing. I've also got, I also use a book light in bed that's an amber color book light and it's got some different settings. So if I do want to read my book in bed, I use that rather than the big light with my swanies and I find that that's a really, that's a perfect light sort of setup for me. What else have I got? I think that might be it. Yeah. And for anyone curious what the view looks like through a pair of daytime swanies, I'll put these up to the camera right now. Let's have a look. Here we go. There we go. So when are you wearing your daytime swanies and when are you wearing your orange lensed swanies, Emma? When I get home from a night shift, I'll put them on the minute I walk in the door. So if I get, if my shift finishes at 7.30, you know, and I get home at court to eight at a clock, they're on instantly when I get home and I keep them on pretty much until I sleep. So they're the night swanies. Yeah. So when you get home from, so during your shift and you, ma'am, apologies if you've already said this, probably you made this when I couldn't hear you earlier, but when you're doing your night shift, when you're working during the night, you're wearing daytime swanies. Is that right? Well, I haven't been in the land of COVID right now. I don't want to put extra things on the floor because we're wearing face shields right now constantly because it's a hot zone. So we're wearing a full face shield. This would be inappropriate to wear because we've already got a mask on and, you know, a hair cover and a face shield. It's all too much. So I haven't been wearing these on the floor, but if I do have to, you know, check my emails or to do something on the computer, that's when I'd wear them. So if I'm, I wear my day ones, if I want to be awake, I want to be awake, but I'm using my computer. That's when I wear these. If I'm trying to go to sleep, pair my body for sleep, that's when I'd wear the orange lenses. Yeah. So if I get home maybe from a PM shift, the one that finishes at 10 o'clock at night, I put on the night orange swanies the minute I get home. And, and then what about if you're getting home at, and in the morning as well, like let's say you're in a night shift, 10 until six, or sorry, nine PM until seven AM, you said. Yeah. What's, what, what swanies are going on and what's your routine then from like seven AM until you go to sleep? If I'm doing a morning shift, was that sorry? Yeah. So if you're doing a nine PM until seven AM shift. Yep. A minute I get home. So if I, at eight AM, I'd probably put them on until I go to sleep. Yep. Got it. And when are you going to sleep in those circumstances? I like to sleep if I'm on a night shift and I get home at let's say eight o'clock, I like to be asleep by nine. I give myself an hour to have a bit of breakfast and to sort of start my routine I was speaking about before. That's when I shower, brush my teeth, have a bit of, have a little bit of breakfast, probably read five pages of my book before I fall asleep. So it's in that hour. So for the night shift workers watching this, I like to give myself about an hour from when I get in the door to when I need to, when I need to go to sleep. It's very, very tempting as an archive worker not to do this because if you work with nine to five workers at home, they're starting their day. The TV's probably going, the music's going, they're having breakfast like their day started, they're energetic and you just want to sleep. So it's very tempting to start doing what they're doing and your routine goes out the window before you know it. It's, you know, it's 11 o'clock in the morning. So for night shift workers just stick to the routine that you've set for yourself. Of course, if you've got kids, this might look a little bit different as well. But if you are a parent, you drop your kids off at school and you come back, you know, and it's 9.30, then try to prioritize sleep at that point and, you know, try to be in bed, you know, within an hour because I'm sure you need a bit of respite if you've just got your kids all ready for school and you've done the breakfast thing and you've made lunches and like that can all be pretty exhausting. But, you know, don't put it off until midday to go to sleep. And have you, on those occasions where you have put it off until midday to go to sleep, where you've been tempted and something's happened, what has been the results of that? It's a nightmare. When I start nights, when I start my night shift by about three o'clock in the morning, I'm so I'm absolutely exhausted and it, you know, can compromise patient care and for the job that I'm in, it can be a real safety risk. So it's just not worth it for me. And particularly for other shift workers, you know, they might be in law enforcement, they might be, you know, using, you know, quite dangerous machinery like we want to be on our A game. So and we can't really take risks in a lot of the jobs that we're in. So, you know, really having a routine is incredibly important. And how does it compromise your social life? If it does, maybe it doesn't like, but when most people are working in nine to five or daytime shifts, you know, whatever they are, and not as many people are working nighttime shifts, how does that compromise, you know, activities you might ordinarily choose to take? Yeah, it does. It does. And you can become really upset about it. And I know when I first started working night shift, you can get a bit down and it is very easy to fall into the rut of sleeping, eating, going to work, sleeping, eating, going to work. It's very easy to sort of get caught up in that and not to see anyone. So I, the few little tips that I do is if I am doing a couple of night shifts, I like to organize dinner dates or particularly it really works well if you go out for dinner with someone who you're on the same shift with because we just go down to a pub down near work and have a meal that, you know, we might only be there for half an hour and we might be wearing our scrubs and it's probably inappropriate to wear scrubs at a pub. But anyway, we go down there and we have a nice meal and we catch up and it's, so that's a really nice way to break up your night shift and also get a bit of, you know, social life. But it can be incredibly challenging and sometimes your friends will get upset with you and they think, oh, she just sleeps all the time and they don't know when to call and you just get put into the too hard basket. But I think for me, the ball sort of falls in my court that if I want to catch up with people, then I have to sort of be in control and call them before a shift and, you know, really make time for people on your days off. Do you ever, do night shift workers or shift workers for that matter struggle with sadness or depression at any stage? Like is that more common or less common or the same as anyone? Because your body's out of whack because maybe you go down a rabbit hole sometimes where you're like, everyone else is normal and I'm not normal because I'm doing this thing. Like how to, what's the mental health like of shift workers or how a shift worker is prone to their mental health being compromised, I guess. Yeah, that's interesting. Some people have a really hard time with it and I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Some people really have a tough time adjusting to the night and they're really social people and really have a tough time. But then you can talk to some night shift workers or people who work shift work and absolutely love it. They love that it's quieter roads. They love that they can go to the supermarket and not have to line up. They love that they can sort of live a life that's away from peak hour. So some people like it, but it can get you down if you don't get on the front foot and you don't organize things with your friends and you don't get enough sunshine. The sun can be a really big trigger for depression, I think, and to feel down that if you just constantly live in darkness, you work in the dark and you sleep in the dark, not getting enough vitamin D and not getting enough sun exposure can really get you down. So as a routine thing for me is I like to wake up. If I am doing night shifts, for example, I wake up at about five o'clock in the afternoon or anywhere between sort of 3.30 and six, depending on the day. I like to get up. I have my gym sort of workout clothes at my door of my bedroom. So I have to step over it, which is I can't step over it. Get changed and go outside, enjoy some sunshine and walk outside. It's a really nice time in the afternoon to call someone during that time or if someone's home, one of your housemates, get the dog and go for a walk during that time. Don't put that off. When I first started night shift, I put that off and just sort of convinced myself that I didn't need to do any exercise and I'd be okay from a mental health perspective. But you need a bit of sunshine and your body needs that and your body clock needs that little reminder that, yes, you are human and the sun really is good to help you sleep and to kick start your gut and that you can, your digestive system can work when it senses some light. Otherwise, it will just be asleep forever and you'll find that you'll be bloated and that also doesn't help your mental health. Yeah, thank you for sharing it. We're talking to Emma Smith from The Other Shift. You can check out The Other Shift on Facebook or at theothershift.com. Emma is wearing a pair of the daytime Swanis at the moment and proudly rocks the nighttime Swanis on occasion as well. We've been talking, we've mentioned a few products here from Swanik as well, the Swanik Hypnotherapy. You can get on the site, there's a link in the comments there, there's a diffuser as well, which Emma also uses. There's a link to the Swanik diffuser there in the comments. I also use, while you're talking about products, when before we changed our curtain, we've got some shade set up, I use the eye mask, which is absolutely gorgeous. I've tried many, many eye masks before, some little, some big with two straps, some with just one strap and I find the Swanis one is really, really lovely to wear. It doesn't itch, it's beautiful. If anyone is looking for an eye mask, it's a little bit more expensive than ones I've tried before and I think that's why I was hesitant originally, but it's well worth the extra money. If people are considering it, go for it. Thank you, Emma. I wear my Swanis eye mask every single night and I find it challenging to sleep without it these days. I've just got so used to blocking all of that life. Like a big hug on your face. It's big. It's lovely. Yeah. It actually won Worlds, or sorry, it came second in the Worlds best sleep mask competition in 2016 and 2017. I can't remember now, but it hasn't changed since then. It's 100% pure silk as well and silk actually is really good for retaining moisture in your skin. They've done studies that show that if you sleep on a silk pillowcase, your visible signs of wrinkles are much lower than if you sleep on, say, a cotton pillow. If you imagine people who maybe sleep on their side or on their front, they're squishing their skin into that fabric, right, of whatever the fabric is on their pillow slip. If it's silk, well, because silk retains moisture, your skin, which is your body's largest organ, is going to retain that moisture and you're going to wake up feeling nice and looking nice, whereas if you're putting your face or your skin on the cotton and you're constantly rubbing up against that for like eight hours of the night, that's going to create visible signs of aging. That's going to do your skin a little bit of damage, not as much damage if you go out and the Australian sunshine in the middle of December and don't put a hat on and cover yourself always sleeper. Some damage nonetheless. I'm curious and again, apologies if you did say this when my audio wasn't working, but as a shift worker, do they sometimes have you do a seven to 330 shift and then they'll start you again on a nine to seven shift? Are they allowed to do that? Or do they have you do a 130 to 10 shift and then they'll have you come in again at seven a.m.? And then what happens if there's just a need for you to stay back late or a need for you to start early because I'm sure that's constantly moving beast I would imagine. Yep, yes to all of those. We often do the classic late early shift, which we do, you finish at 10 o'clock at night and start again at seven, which I am a big believer that seven to nine hour sleep is what we want and it's actually physically impossible to get that during that shift. So that can be an incredibly challenging 24 hours for probably any nurse watching this late early is no good. So doing things like wearing the swanies, keeping to a routine and probably having a shorter wind down period when you get home is incredibly important and really making sure that you're not having maybe a big pizza for dinner or a big bowl of pasta because you just feel so bloated and you've only got a short period of time to sleep before you got to get up again. So yeah, so that could that can be difficult from a night shift switching to back to a day shift. So we may finish at seven o'clock in the morning and then we start again at five o'clock in the afternoon. So some nurses they request that shift because I think it gets them back to normal quicker than if they were to have, you know, maybe a couple of days off and then come back to a day shift. So everyone's got their own preference to what they like to do. But yes, to answer your question, they the short turnover between shifts is yep, it's very, very common. And we to do over time and things like that, particularly in the COVID setting that we're in is very common as well, which back when I first started nursing, I thought, oh, over time, yeah, people are going to think that I'm this amazing nurse that I've worked overtime and I don't need to sleep and I don't need to eat. And you know, sort of, I wear this hero badge because I've done overtime, but I've totally changed my view on it. And it's sleep is so much more important than doing overtime. And I know that you get the financial reward. And, you know, if you need to help out, I've definitely done overtime not too long ago, because we needed it. And we were desperate. But if you if you do have a choice and you don't have to do it, I'd recommend to just to go home and have a nice sleep and come back for your next shift. You know, if you've got to stay a couple of hours, this is the other compromise you could do that. Look, I can't do a full overtime. I can't do a double shift, for example, but maybe I'll stay for four hours. That can be a nice balance. And my boss, she often says that because we can just help relieve some breaks for four hours, and then I can go home. So that that could be a nice alternative for you. For someone who's not a shift worker, for someone who maybe works sometimes from home, and they really have to get something done. And so they wait for the kids to go to sleep, or they wait for the data to finish. And then, you know, ordinarily, maybe they're asleep by 10, 10 30 at night. But on this occasion, they've decided that they're going to take advantage of the quiet. And they're going to push through until midnight 12 31 in the morning, maybe they'll stay up a few hours later than they ordinarily would. What would you suggest for that person in terms of should they still wake up at the same time as they would if they went to sleep at 10? So for example, if they sleep from 10 until 6 30, and they decided this night, they're not going to go to sleep until one o'clock, should they still wake up at 6 30, or should they push through until 9 30 if they have that luxury, of course, of not having to have a nice luxury this person has here. Seven to nine hours is what your body wants. This is when you can re restore and sort of rein bigger natural body processes. So I would be pushing through and aiming for seven to nine hours. Okay, got it. Okay, so for anyone who would like to learn more, the other shift on Facebook and the other shift.com is where you should head. Emma, thank you so much for giving us your words of wisdom today. We so appreciate you. And thank you so much for those who ask questions on Facebook and YouTube on the live recording of this. There'll be many more people who will watch a replay of this. So when you if you are one of those people who are watching a replay and you do have a particular question, go ahead and type the question in and we'll make sure that we get your question answered. But for those of you who are live and ask questions, thank you so much for being here. There were some great questions. Apologies if my audio not working back the half an hour or so ago compromised the quality of this particular thing. But I think we got through it. Emma, I'm sure you were a professional. I don't know, I started there for a little bit, but hopefully everyone's. You're educating people along the way. I'm going to watch the replay so I can pick up all the stuff that I missed out on. Is there any final advice or something to round it off to people who are night shift workers or who have up and down sleep patterns as to, you know, as to how they might live a better life while navigating those challenges? I think my big takeaways is find a routine for yourself that works. If you've got kids find a routine that works for you. Focus on the light and really start to think about what light source you're giving to yourself particular times during your shift. Make time for people that you love. If you want to see your friends, you want to see your family make time for them. Get some time in the sun. Again, I don't know what that looks like for you, but take your dog and give them a little treat outside the sun. Remember that your digestive system slows overnight. This was probably one of the biggest takeaways for me. So really concentrate on what you're putting in your mouth when the sun is down. Your body doesn't need too much during this time. So really focus on what you're putting in your mouth and how your body responds to that. If the cause is bloating, try something else. Life as a shift worker, it's different to the non-traditional life, but it's definitely one that is incredibly rewarding. It has its definite positive advantages and you can live a really healthy, happy life. So if you need anything and you need some personal advice, I'm really happy if you want to send me an email over at The Other Shift. My husband Daniel and I, we read every single one and we try to give some targeted, unique advice for you. So yeah, thank you for watching this. James, I don't know if you want to talk about the little giveaway related to this. Oh yeah, thank you for reminding me. Let's do that. Yeah, so you go ahead. Yeah, so this is for the nurses watching or if you know a nurse in your life. I've created a new nurse survival kit. So anyone who's going through the nursing studies, so in the three-year nursing degree or the four-year nursing degree in America, and during your graduate year, I know that it can be a really tough, challenging, anxious time. And I wanted to help you out with that. So I've created a little PDF book that's about 50 pages or so. It's not all reading, don't worry. Some of it is some templates and things that you can use. And I'd love to give some away. So we're giving away 20 copies. So 10 of those who participate in the promo and then for the 10 people or each of you tag someone, and they'll also be given a copy of our new nurse survival kit. You just have to likes one week's sleep and come over to our Facebook page and like us as well. Yeah, great. And I'll make sure that we, in the replay version of this, we pin that up to the top as well. So it's not buried down and buried down in the comments. Thank you for mentioning that. Wonderful. Well Emma, thank you so much. So thank you so much for being supporter of SWANIs and thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us on today's show. Of course. Thank you very much for having me on. Yeah. And thank you for what you do. More talk soon. Thank you. Talk soon. Thanks, James.