 Well then, welcome to the Bitcoin Go episode two. I'm Bruce Wagner. Enjoy the meeting? Many ma'am. And Ed Gell? Ed Gell. Today we're going to talk with Jared Kenna of a new venture. This is Earth Shattering Bitcoin World News called tradehill.com. Tradehill.com is the newest best exchange site for instant Bitcoin purchases. And so joining us live via Skype is Jared Kenna. Hello, Jared. Hello. Where are you, Jared? I am in Chile. I am in Uda Mora, Chile. Is it Chile and Chile right now? Unfortunately, it's hot, and I'm wearing a suit there. So are we? So I want to take a break and just mention today's episode is brought to you by our three sponsors, bitcoinbonus.com, where you're rewarded with bitcoins for shopping online, and ambervertcreative.com. Ambervert Creative will create your identity in print, web, and online. And tradehill.com, which is obviously who we're interviewing today, tradehill.com is the new Bitcoin exchange for instant Bitcoin purchases. So back to you, Jared. So what's happening? Tell us the story. Well, we're going live right now. We're doing a few things differently. We're trying to make it a lot easier to buy bitcoins, a lot simpler and a lot faster, and obviously cheaper. So we're trying to offer as many varieties of deposit and withdrawal methods and currencies. Obviously, I'm in Chile, so Chilean peso was a big priority. Currently, we're offering the US dollar, Chilean solace, Chilean peso, euros, Australian dollars. Brazil's coming really soon. We just confirmed India and Israel. So we're going to have the Israeli shekel and the Indian rupee as well. It says Bitcoin really isn't a world currency. Yes. You're an American guy, right? That's correct. I'm a US citizen. Let's start with that. How did you end up in Chile? I invented Chilean girl. Of course. We're doing good. Yeah. We talked about it before you laughed at me a little bit. We're still together. We're doing great. So yeah, we went on a date or two. And then she moved to Chile. And I pretty much had to decide if I wanted to see her again and fly down. So I flew down and loved the streets. That's great. So now, how long ago did you guys, first of all, who was involved in this new venture? How did you get together? And when did you come up with this idea? Well, I've been following Bitcoin for a while. Unfortunately, I didn't put enough money in my 20 cents. But I've been following it since at that point, which was probably six months ago or so. I really like the idea. I like it from an economic perspective. I like it with perspective and everything. And I really wanted it to succeed. And I wasn't really optimistic in the beginning. I mean, I was optimistic. But part of me said, you know, this is too much. People won't understand it. It's a little bit too much to grasp. And then I saw how hard the community was working. And you know, well, this is a real grassroots effort. And then I thought, hey, how can I get a part of this? How can I make some money? And I looked at what's lacking. MT-Docs, they do a great job. I'm not going to bash MT-Docs at all. I like Tux, he's a great guy. And they've done a great job. But there's a lot of things you can do differently. Also, MT-Docs is a single point of failure with Bitcoin. Sometimes, in Tux, it wouldn't destroy Bitcoin. But it would be a major blow. Yeah. Do you think it's so distributed that you shouldn't have a single point of failure at least, or exchange? And the same with trade, though. I mean, as much as I would love all the Bitcoin volume to go through us, it's not a good idea to be distributed. So everyone agrees. Yeah, definitely. I think everybody agrees that, yeah, the less chance of a single point of failure, the better, all the way around for the whole world, for all of Bitcoin. Yeah, it's almost like a central bank. Exactly. Otherwise, yeah, it's like we rely on the Fed. So are you a developer, or what's your background? What are you doing before this? I'm into computers. I grew up screwing out computers, building them, playing video games, and all that stuff. So yeah, I can go up a little bit, but I've got some guys that are professional developers. And this isn't something that you want to take lightly. So I called up a few friends. We've got one guy who was a leading software developer for SpaceX, I'm going to shift to your familiar SpaceX. I figured if the guy can write a program to put a rocket in space, he'd got to work for it. So I called him up and called another friend who's actually the one that's going to be on the Spanish Bitcoin show, named Francisco Dagnino. And he worked for one of the largest investment banks in the world, and for confidentiality reasons, I don't think it's a lot to mention it. If he is, he'll probably say I'm a Spanish big friend of the other, and I'll do. He also worked for one of the largest US retail banks in the United States, and basically doing this, moving money around according to our code and all that. So how many of you guys are involved? There's three of us, we're the core, but we've brought in some other people as well. We've got, as much as the Bitcoin community might cringe at this, we've got some Wall Street folks. We've got some guys that do derivatives, quantitative finance, that type of thing. None of that's implemented yet, but that's coming soon. Derivatives, quantitative financing? So options, and I don't even know. Margins, margin trading? I barely understand what that is. How would those models fit into Bitcoin, because Bitcoin doesn't necessarily match anything? Exactly, exactly. And the biggest difference is you can't just make it. You know, all the other, you know, transparency. Central Bank decides they want to print, you know, 100 billion, then you go ahead and do it. But with when you take it, you can't do that. So, like, so how would that work? I don't quite get it. So if I want to, like, what is a margin, is when I am borrowing money to buy Bitcoin? Is that basically what it is? I knew where I'd borrow it from. Is it? Well, in this case, you'd be borrowing it from us before the one's operating. But it gets complicated, you can get swapped around and everything, but the thing is, there's always going to be a risk for someone. Yeah. Just creating one. So you have to be very careful with it. And before bringing it in and doing this personally for a long time, I'm directly responsible for the collapse of the United States. And I associate that with, I don't know if these are good references or not. They're professional guys who've been in this for a long time. They have all the degrees, qualifications, the regulations. So, which is another big thing, Bitcoin, it's lacking regulation. There's a lot of areas and there's a lot of ambiguities. So we want to bring some regulation to that. I think when it remains unregulated, there's going to be first misconceptions and everything else. Because it's a really powerful currency. It's not like any other currency. You can move the equivalent of a truck full of ash to Brazil in 20 minutes. Yeah. And so a lot of people don't understand that. Yeah. When you say regulation, we want to bring regulation to it. You mean regulation Latin as a sense of a government regulation. You mean just more a standard secure platform? Right, right. I mean, we definitely want to bring a lot of information. I think that's the biggest thing is Latin. A lot of people just don't understand what exactly. The other thing is, the reason for the regulation and the legislation of it is if we can clarify and we can put it in a positive light before it gets billified and looked at as exclusively a tool for money laundering or anything like that, stay one step ahead of it. It's a good law before they put out a bad law to it, you know, make it as literally black. And legislation, you're talking about US, like laws? Exactly, exactly. They're gonna make some laws. The Senate's already talking about it. I haven't had a lot of time to research it, but Bruce, who's selling the article, did he hear the senator before? Schumer, and there were two senators, both Democrats, I forgot their names. Did you see it? I'm gonna read too much into it, but there's two senators, it's a piece of Silk Road, which is, if anybody hasn't heard of it, it's basically a board where people get together and contraband anything that we considered illegal is usually created through there. And just like cash, you can do the same thing with Bitcoin, and now they're targeting Bitcoin specifically because it facilitates it. Well, yeah, it's kind of a combination of the media's tendency to love hysteria. And of course, the government having an opportunity now to pin the dirt on this new thing that they don't like. I mean, I don't know how much of that's going on, but for sure the media loves to talk about the heroin store where you can buy guns and arms and whatever, but to attach it to Bitcoin, I think it's actually our responsibility as responsible Bitcoin community. Obviously cash is used in crime, and we don't outlaw cash. Cars are used as getaway cars, and we don't outlaw cars. It's just absurd, so we have to make sure that the public is educated by us before they get too tainted and they start calling it Silk Road money. We wanna make sure that the word gets out that no, that's not what it is. Right. Exactly. And I think that there's ambiguity there with the anonymity. People think that it's completely anonymous when in reality it's not completely. It's about, I say it's as anonymous as cash in some ways. It can be as anonymous as cash. I mean, you can get into the technical aspects of it to the end, but it's basically like pseudonym anonymous. It's not really anonymous. You can forensically track it back. Obviously, just like cash, there are ways to launder Bitcoin the same ways, I mean not same ways, but similar to the ways you can launder cash. But it's not completely anonymous, but it's as anonymous as email, if not more. And not that anonymous. If you wanna use it, if you wanna keep better records with it, you can. I mean, if you have a bar, it's an apple, and you deal mostly in cash, the government's not gonna be able to track it at all. I mean, they're gonna estimate it and everything. But if you dealt in Bitcoin, they could say, okay, this is your Bitcoin address. Everyone pays you here. Let me give you the records. And they would know how much you made down in the pen. Yeah, but I was gonna say. I've already heard it proposed by developers that are working on point of sale systems where they literally have a stack, like a notepad, where a tear off QR code so that every customer gets a different QR code. Like they literally scan it, send the Bitcoin to that address, tear it off and throw it in the wastebasket. So the whole entire stack eat up 5,000 addresses and they're one use, throw away, tear off the pad, scan the next one, and every time a customer comes through, they tear off the pad. So there are a lot of ways, obviously you could do that electronically too with a display, but there are a lot of ways to make every single transaction unique. And you can sort of anonymize it. I mean, as much or as little as you need for your purposes. How would that work for a regulation though? Because if you're tracking how many Bitcoins are being used, you also need to know the value against the US dollar at that specific time. It's so volatile right now. That must be a huge headache. Yeah, can you imagine? You'll be taxed on the purchase of value at the time you purchased it or a year later. The way Bitcoin is going, man, that Starbucks is gonna cost you. You made $5 profit, you're gonna pay a million dollars in tax. Wasn't it the 10,000 Bitcoin pizza, is that correct? Yeah. That was the very first transaction or something. How much is that today? Do the math. $200,000 pizza, better been good. I think that's around $30,000 for that pizza, or even more. Speaking of, I gotta say this, speaking on the sidebar about nostalgia, because we're already talking about the history of Bitcoin. I was telling it, we bought these, the Bitbills that you've seen those. I bought some because I thought that it would be really good. Well, I wanna be the first kid on the block to have one first. But also I thought for my totally, can barely work and I know we ordered some, so that could be why it orders delayed. But anyway, I was thinking if they just continue those, because they'd be like, what is that? Like it's a $5,000 bill now. Like one card, it's a lot of money. So I was telling Ed, I'll bet you anything, someday this card will have numismatic value, because way back when they made a 200 Bitcoin card, because by then who knows what it would be worth. It would be like a million dollar bill. Can you imagine numismatic Bitcoin? Mm-hmm. Well, speaking of security, what are you guys doing for, as far as like securing the Bitcoins that you're transacting and exchanging? I mean, everything's packed up in multiple locations and encrypted. We're being very careful. That's, you know, you've got a really good point. Everything changes with Bitcoin. I think in the future, you might have people robbing data centers like you used to rob banks. Yeah. Physically. Wow. You know, you can steal someone's computer that has 10,000 Bitcoins on it, which is what, $3 million? No. $300,000? And no, that's $300,000. That's it. There you go. All right. We can't think without a calculator. Awesome. Um. Anyways, you can use somebody's laptop and it might have, you know, $30,000 in the Bitcoins on it and you wouldn't know. Or, you know, somebody might break in with data center where the Bitcoins would be stored. Steal up, fill a server. Or you just hack in, you know, that's gonna need. Yeah. I think there's gonna be a whole new breed of viruses that are designed just to steal your wallet. I mean, I haven't heard any reports of it yet, but you just know that's coming. Did you hear the thread yesterday that I did before in the forum about this poor guy? He was a technologist. He knew what he was doing, but maybe he was too tired or something, but he absolutely missed the step, or he actually misinterpreted the way, the technical way the Bitcoin client worked. You need the Bitcoin client over it and that's where the discrepancy. That's what happened. You have to close it this way to like visualize the file or whatever it has to do with the procedures. So the story, I don't know if you heard this Jared, this guy, he created a Bitcoin wallet and then he backed it up and then he installed the app again and created another one. He called one savings, one checking. Then he backed it up and then he encrypted it and intracrypt all this stuff. And then he did a secure wipe of the file and accidentally lost, it was about the equivalent. Well, two days ago, it was like $145,000. Oh my, I wanted to cry. I don't even know the guy. Oh my God. He wrote on there, he's ready to jump off the window or something out the window. Oh, you know, that's, it's funny, but it's not. That's probably gonna happen. Because it's a, people, we got to wrap our mind around the idea that it's not an email, it's not a spreadsheet. It's real money and it could be any amount. It could absolutely be your whole family's generations of life savings or something. What about hard drive sales or something like that? Hard drives fail. And most people really have no clue about how to do it. And this guy did know how to do it. It was a misinterpretation of how the client works, which obviously highlights the need for new generation of clients that have the wallet.at file encrypted from the start, encrypted and backed up, and all the much more sophisticated ways to back it up and secure it. Right. The first generation was really, this whole thing is an experiment that just happened to succeed and go live, right? Yeah, I'm just starting to think of something that now that any trojas or any viruses that would attack a wallet would pretty much be moved. Keyboard loggers, there's nothing, what can protect from that, you know? You're really. There's actually a way to protect against software key logging, but not hardware key logging. And what is Trade Hill doing for that? Like, as far as, you know, obviously, hardware keyboard logging, what are you doing about that? I mean, we've got machines that are completely isolated and, you know, we're not downloading anything that could cause any problems, you know? I mean, if I've got a computer with $50,000 on it, I can definitely afford another computer to go browse on the internet with and just take that one by itself now. Yeah, yeah. So definitely, definitely that's a big step. And just encryption, isolation, standard, you know, a lot of backups. Right. And how about... And we've actually got a guy that specializes in that kind of thing. We probably can do better details, but at the same time, you probably wouldn't want to, just because... Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. You can't expose the secrets. And how about like... I think that's what you were talking about, like the whole security thing is huge, because one of my biggest fears for Bitcoin is people that have no idea how it works and you know at the end of the day, you just get their follow-up, and it's stolen, they lose everything. They won't take care, and then when it does happen, they'll say, oh, Bitcoin sucks, it's stolen my money. Whereas, you know, you leave the wallet sitting around and when you come back and the money's gone, you don't go home, you know? Yeah, you leave your wallet on the seat with a convertible top down, what do you expect? It's a new thing, though, people are not used to. Yeah, they just don't know. It actually happens now with credit card fraud, you know? Those people that go online and then they order something and then therefore ever be turned from ever ordering online, you know, it's because they just didn't follow secure computing prices or it's not their fault, they're just ignorant to the fact. That's right, yeah. Except it's exponentially more dangerous because it's not credit cards, it's not reversible. That's the thing about Bitcoin, that it's just absolutely cash, it's once it's gone, it's gone. I mean, it's a whole different thing. It's just like, it's like the internet itself. Somebody said, you know, so it's really the most powerful new technology since the invention of the internet itself. I really believe that. Disruptive technology? Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to ask also, Jared, about like, what have you guys done to protect your site from DNS attacks? Because that, or D-E-O-S? D-D-O-S, D-D-O-S. Distributed Denial Service, D-D-O-S, yeah. So once you get the security data out of the map, but we're doing a lot of testing, spoken with several different tests in the swipe form, that it's more in the end that we've got some guys who are testing and they're doing their own testing and it's looking pretty good on the D-D-O-S. Okay, next question. Just the biggest thing is state digital, you know, you're on top of it, constantly testing, we have other machines for development, you know, we're doing 40 things with these. And basically just don't put it out there if we're not confident, like you said, this is something that's very serious. So you're capable of doing thousands of transactions at a time with this kind of system that you have set up? Yeah, I mean, can you scale it up? If you change a lot of volume, it should be, we've actually, I think we've received 10,000 extra in, just starting doing this. We can scale it up, it's like, I can just crank it up. Great, and is it designed like to store your bitcoins there? Or it's really more like an exchange where I go there to exchange and then I store them somewhere else? Have you done anything like that? Well, I mean, we don't really have problems if you slip in there, but that's not, I would say store them or something you can use them. So you can try it if you want to do j-cracking or anything like that. But obviously, when we have a higher risk, in case something goes wrong, it's just kind of on how confident you are, change yourself. Mostly, I used to keep a fair amount of energy costs and I was, I said, hey, they're probably on their own until I understand how the system works, when it was new. How I understand the system, but I don't have it backed up and I don't have it encrypted, I don't have to do all this stuff. So now I'm confident I can keep it in my own theater and my own backers. I've got a million more questions, I know we all do. But I want to take just a break, really quick to thank again our sponsors who are bringing this show to you today. Yes, thank you. Bitcoin Bonus is a site, it's called bitcoinbonus.com. Have you heard of that, Jared? Yeah, I have actually. And they signed up after our first episode and said we want to sponsor the Bitcoin Show in English and Spanish. We're all about Bitcoin, obviously. But then the next day I got an email from somebody, a completely different random person who was telling me about this thing because he loves it. He, bitcoinbonus.com is the site. You go there and any shopping you're gonna do online, whether you're shopping for web hosting or purchases of any kind, he's got hundreds and hundreds of links. And all you do is use their affiliate link and make your purchase that you're gonna make anyway. And you get rewarded with Bitcoin. And this particular guy was like a website designer. And so he would sign up for hosting accounts like several times a week. And every time he'd sign up for a hosting account, he got 50 Bitcoin and he's like thrilled. He's like, this is the best thing he's ever seen. Forget the Bitcoin faucet. This is like really the Bitcoin fire hydrant. So yeah, he loves it. Every time you buy something, whether it's whatever, you know, all the different shopping sites Dr. Frugal will talk about how to save money. And big name stores too. It's not just middle stores. Yeah, and hosting, probably the things that you're buying anyway. You just go there, just don't forget, right? Before you buy it, go there and... Cashback was Bitcoin. Exactly, Bitcoin back. Better than coupons for sure. What could be better? Cashback. So anyway, check it out, bitcoinbonus.com. And Daryl's awesome. He's the guy who started, well he had the world's first meetup at meetup.com here in New York, but he started one right after that, the next weekend in D.C. And he's an awesome guy. So he's doing really well with that and we're really happy. So anytime you're shopping online, go to bitcoinbonus.com. Then also we want to thank Ambivert Creative. And I'm going to spell it. It's A-M-B-I-V-E-R-T Creative.com. Ambivert Creative.com. And what this outfit does is they say we design your identity in web, print, and logos. Like your logo, your entire website, images, stationery, everything from beginning to end. So they pull it all together with a real corporate identity so that you look really professional to have a corporate image. From bottom to top. I mean, if you go to their webpage, you'll see some of the examples of what they're doing and it's very slick, modern, very, very high tech. Do it as right as you're selling. Exactly, yeah, and that's going to be it. We have a show called Build A Brand Too which is exactly about online marketing and promotion and things like that. But it's very, very important. Everybody knows. You have to have a really, you know, sleek professional, you know, corporate image that looks like, you know, it doesn't look like you just made it yourself, homemade, something that looks slick. So they're really pros. And you know, if you're starting a business, you don't have time usually to do all that yourself or maybe not the skills, you know. They just let- Or the creativity. Just give it to them and they do really, really good work. So they'll do everything for, like I said, your logos, your stationery, your print, your brochures, your website, everything. Product design, everything. Colors, everything, make it really, yeah, that's right. Do labeling, like there were some product prototypes where they did labeling for beverages. And different forms of bottles for these beverages. You got to see it, it's great. And they accept Bitcoin, of course. They're a Bitcoin merchant. So we definitely want to support them because they're supporting the Bitcoin community as well. So it's ambivertcreative, a-m-b-i-v-e-r-t-creative.com. And finally, last but not least, tradehill.com, instant Bitcoin exchange. Obviously we're interviewing Jared. You can do your own commercial. But tradehill, by the way, I will mention that you have to correct me if I'm wrong because I'm learning all this too. But it's something like 20-some currencies. How many currencies are there that you're accepting now? Let's see, right now we've got eight right now. But we're gonna give out 25 in the next week or two. 25 currencies in the next week or two. So it doesn't matter where you are, if it's Russian Ruples or Mexican pesos, you're gonna cover the globe. And we're gonna basically convert all... We're looking for partners. We're looking for other established businesses from a world that would like to participate with us. And we've got a partner group. And I think it's something that a lot of people would be interested in. And hopefully it can be 50 or 100 countries within a month or two. So the main benefits of tradehill.com over the existing options are the so many different currencies and also so many different ways to get your money in instantly today. You can do a bank wire transfer if you're in the US, a domestic wire transfer today. Get it in there immediately. By the time this shows over, your money can be in there and credited. And you're buying bitcoins now. In all these different currencies, no matter where you are in the globe, and the fees are less than competitors. What else? Oh, you were telling me, can I disclose what you were telling me about what you can do with your bitcoins after you? Yeah, actually, tell you what. I'll just go give you a rundown real quick on some features and you can finish up with that one. That sounds good. I think I know which one you're talking about. So yeah, like Bruce said, you can deposit with domestic or international wire transfers. We accept wallet, which I like wallet. I mean, it's a little slow sometimes. I think that's gonna speed up though. Yeah, I know it's slow. But it can't be price. 25 cents. I mean, the banks are really ripping us off and targeting anywhere between $10 and $30. By the way, I want to tell you, I don't interrupt you, but I want to tell you this. The Dual of People called me when I created my account the first day. They're probably too busy to call people now, but they welcomed me to it. And one of the things that they told me was very RSN, as we say, real soon now, they're gonna have this new technology called FISync. And as soon as they get the banks all tied in with the FISync, which is supposed to be real soon, then it will work the same exact way it does now. 25 cents, but it'll be instantaneous. No more bank wiring. So now the problem, if you have money in Dual, great. It's instantaneous, but if you don't, it's gonna take you several days to get it through. But with this instantaneous thing, wow, that's gonna be slick. Exactly, that's gonna be huge. So we're offering a few other things like Liberty Reserve and then desperate deposits. For withdrawals, we have a lot more options. I like to play video games. I know a lot of people use bitcoins, play video games. So we're offering options to withdrawals and game cards. You play Warcraft, Air Quest, any of those games, A-N-O, BIF, whatever. You can withdraw to that. Also, there's the ultimate game card which has like 1,000 games on it. You can withdraw to that as well. I don't play Farmville, but I know a lot of people do. You want to cash out the Farmville account? Wow, you can go Bitcoin to Farmville, it's a fine way. We're also accepting donations. Not to us, of course, but to our profit play. I think the EFF is gonna be huge because Bitcoin is not gonna just be accept. There's gonna be people opposed to it for a variety of reasons. I think the EFF is gonna be huge in the end of Bitcoin. I think there's a lot of people that have already donated to the EFF with Bitcoin. Also, we're gonna see a lot of people that are suddenly very rich and they're not gonna have a problem cashed out 10 or 20 or 100 Bitcoins. Are you from Russia? I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sure I have, I'm just a journalist. Yeah, so anyways, you can send bitcoins to us, sell them on the exchange, and then transfer the EFF, and then we transfer the dollars to the EFF for the Red Cross. Those are the two that we're currently offering. It's kind of an experiment. I think it's gonna work out. I've seen, I was involved with the Bitcoin community when the disaster in Japan hit, well, that three months ago. And there was a lot of people instantly that just said, hey, how do we give money to Japan? How do we give money to Japan? So we want to be there. We want to be a legitimate way to do that. Obviously with Bitcoin, like you talked about earlier with the Transparence, you can be sure that your money is going to the Red Cross or to the EFF. You can see us change the money over, you can see your block allocated and everything. So you don't have to worry that we're gonna just say we're donating and then pocketing it. You know, I don't know if you heard this, but the EFF recently stopped accepting donations via Bitcoin. They said they're gonna do an evaluation. And I think, you know, their attorneys and they're doing their due diligence. I think they're doing the right thing to really analyze it through and through, which actually is good for all of us that they do that before they, you know, so they've stopped, they've at least temporarily suspended donations via Bitcoin. So that's all the more reason why if Trade Hill can accept, that's all that matters. So that's a good way, because the EFF is so important what they're doing, their work is so important. That's great because we can still donate via Bitcoin. You know, if we go to Trade Hill and donate that way and it's good, we know it's gonna get there even if they don't accept Bitcoin directly. Exactly, they're taking our people. Yeah, that's right. They're gonna get it. They don't have a choice. That's right. That's great. Yeah, and also iTunes gift cards. So if you want to buy $100 on iTunes, we can just instantly email you. Now, the big one that's I think had a lot of people excited is we have the option to purchase on amazon.com through us. So it's actually incredibly simple. This is also an experiment if it works well, which I think it will, will expand. Basically, go to amazon.com, you have that on account, and then you make a wish list, which is pretty simple. Buy some products you like, click add to wish list, and then once you've got your wish list, you can take it public. So there's a bunch of them in public. And then there's a link to your wish list. So you copy that, you go back to our site, you go to Winfrog Pickpoints, it was on that, I'm not purchased, I believe. And then you paste that in the block bottom, you put your address, and then you put your pickpoints in this office. And then you hit the button, and then within four hours, your order is processed, and whatever you bought from there is going forward. How many hours? Okay, that's not good. You broke up just a little, within how many hours? 24. Oh, okay, okay. So basically, it's Amazon accepts Bitcoin now, through Trade Hill. If they want, it's like here. They don't have a choice. That's great. Can you do that for every website on the internet? We'll work on it, see what we can do. Like I do. When they say 24 hours on a lot of these things, that's basically to make sure we have time. By now, a lot of things on that link, just make sure it's secure, safe, and also there's a lot of coding involved in making it on that. So right now, a lot of that's being done manually. The good thing is, we're sitting there fitting, and you can see that Amazon.com will come in, we'll hop on it, we'll put out the transfer of the information, and there you go. So it could be out in 20 minutes. Cool, that's great. And are you planning to add others, other shopping sites to that list? Definitely, definitely. Creating a new thing, a little scared to be made in the cat. Wanted to buy some of eBay, wasn't an actual, I don't want to do that, but definitely a site that you can take, I heard, right, up on the most, certainly the biggest and easiest to handle. Those sites for computer parts should really be popular for all the miners. This way they can take the bitcoin that they're earning through mining and buy better mining. Buy better mining gear, yeah, exactly. Definitely good computers and electronics. I'm not a fan of eBay, and especially not PayPal, but it would be ironic if they'd benefit from this, but. Yeah, that's definitely true. But I think they had intentions in getting NHS stuff. Yeah. Just weigh on it, put it in. Way back when. Turn it into something we don't like. Exactly, Frankenstein. The, what was I gonna ask you? I forgot. Well, I know that we've said it's instant trading. I did see an option when I did briefly go in there where you could instantly cash out or instantly buy bitcoin. Oh yeah. How does that work? That's a new feature, right? Yeah, that's a feature. I think it's gonna be you. Instant buy, instant sell, right? Exactly, what it's really used for is the people that don't get involved in a bid or an ask for a lot of bid and ask yes. They simply say, hey, I wanna buy 20 bitcoins. How much does it gonna cost? Make it fun, and make it fun. They like it, they accept, and then trade is done, 20 bitcoins in your account, which they can transfer out. Currently, it only works if you need to put not a bitcoins you want, and it tells you to don't buy it. We're gonna have it very soon, so you can say, I have $1,000, how many bitcoins can I buy? Who was it that suggested that improvement? Come on, you gotta give me credit, you know? Okay, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, I was just gonna talk about why people suggested it. Oh yeah, okay, you made me feel good. You made me. I just wanna look at it and say, okay. This needs changed, yeah. You've been in this mindset, you've been in the site for maybe 30 seconds, so. That's because everybody all day long they say, I wanna buy $1,000 worth. They don't think $1,000 bitcoins worth, they think $1,000 worth, because we always, we're trained to think in dollars, so. Yeah, I've been living in Chile for three years and I still think in dollars for the most part. Yeah. Cool. It enters when you can dollars in coins because it changes the, you know. I know. So you can't actually think of coins. Yeah, I know Bitbills was like, you know, something like 30 bit cents for, you know, premium for the card, for one Bitcoin card. And that was, and that's something that's really kind of a weird thing about Bitcoin is they, everybody, every merchant has to constantly be lowering their prices. You know, because the value keeps going up, they gotta quickly lower their prices. Especially today. Somehow I think that there's gonna have to be, somebody's gotta create an API where it's tied to the value of Bitcoin so that the price is just fluid. Like it's fluid at that moment. Some people have made some scripts and whatnot, so you can see, you can put your price in dollar and then, you know, a lot of them can play in Bitcoin based on, I don't need the last transaction on GX. I just remembered, speaking of that, that's an important question. I've been meaning to ask, and I wanted to save it for the show. And that is, because we start talking and we can't shut up. And we're like, oh, we gotta tape this and make a show. But this is the question I haven't asked you. What do you think, what do you all think is gonna happen to the price, the Bitcoin price with a new market opening up that has so many more features than Mt. Gox? It's, you know, you think every, if everybody floods over to this new one, there's gonna be an equilibrium, you know, a balancing act of people moving. What do you think is gonna happen to the price of Bitcoin over the next 48 hours of the week because of this? I think regardless of what happens, price of Bitcoin is gonna go up. But I think, I think we're gonna help it go up and we're gonna increase the speed that it goes up because transactions can happen faster. You put your money in quicker and pull out quicker. So if you look at a lot of the big press hits of Bitcoin as God, there's been a lack between, if you look at the Google searches that are done for Bitcoin, every time the volume of searches goes up, it lies a little bit behind the point of value because a lot of people, they're taking three days or five days or a week to buy their Bitcoins. Part of that is just the knowledge diffusion. You know, they hear about it and go, I don't know if this will really work. I don't wanna lose my money. And then they go, man, if I would have bought it last week, I would have done plenty of money. And then they say, oh, I'm gonna put my money in. And then they go, oh man, I'm not gonna open this mall account. I gotta verify that. I'm not gonna send that money in. Anyway, you do it. You know, I'll send the price triple. So I believe the more exchanges and the faster the exchanges are, the quicker the price is gonna go up. Yeah. Anyway, somebody sell a whole bunch on Monday for $10 and then now buying them back for like almost 30. I mean, it just happens over and over, right? And yeah, it's liquidity. Liquidity is gonna make it more a better utility. So that's always good for it. I think it's, I think you're right. So the trade hill opening up, how do you think this is gonna affect our ability to measure the price of Bitcoin? Are we gonna have to sort of do- Check two places or three places? Yeah, multiple exchanges and then sort of extrapolate that together into one single price. How's that gonna affect because at Mt. Gots it might be $30, that trade hill it might be $40. Well, we've already solved that problem, by the way, Jared, I haven't told you this. But our meetup we have here, we hosted right here. It only went to TV every Saturday. We have a hack, well, we actually have three. We have a hackathon, a promotathon, and then a legal think tank all about Bitcoin. But the hackathon guy, Andrew Schaff actually, is kind of like the de facto team lead of the hackathon. He's what? He's a beast. He's a beast, yeah, he is, yeah. So he was here. You talked to him when we were talking originally. So he's been in on this secret of trade hill launch. And we were talking about it and he's come up with an idea of taking the top several exchange sites and then taking the value and then weighting it by the volume. So the trade site value weighted by the volume and then coming up with an average, so a whole nother thing that he's talking about. Like just a simple little website, super, super simple that takes that information and compiles it. Then that also plays very well into the whole concept of Bitcoin. Bitcoin derives its value like any fiat currency from hard trust in it. So it would take the Bitcoin community to sort of trust the fact that it's doing it, sort of like regulation where there's a problem with that. So the more they trust that trade, that exchange site, the more weighted that price will be as far as what the real value is. It's an interesting concept. It'll be interesting though to see what happens. And then you've got, you know, like, with these, there's so many different currencies. You know, if you have what X number of eight currencies or whatever right now, and you're gonna have many, many more, I wonder if people are gonna use it like forex, like they're gonna have, like they see that the Chilean, whatever it is, Chilean peso or what is it? Yeah, Chilean peso. Right, I mean, like if it's like undervalued for Bitcoin, you know what I mean? They're gonna buy them in dollars and or buy with dollars and then sell them back and in and out and like to keep the equilibrium among all the currencies. Yeah, I mean, when you start talking about forex, there's a lot of regulation you get to and I mean, we're not a forex company, you know? But yeah, you have a good point. There's gonna be a lot of arbitrage between different currencies. And I think there's gonna be a lot of money to be made there. I think the situation, I can be honest, but I think the situation is kind of gonna take care of itself because anytime there's a potential for a lot of profit, people with a lot of money are gonna come in and they're gonna lock in these prices and they're gonna take advantage of that little difference. And then the more people that are selling on both of them or all three of them or all eight of them or however many currencies we're talking about, the closer the value will be. So I think people are gonna realize how much money can be made there. And we've already talked with some, they want to remain anonymous now. But when you hear about them, if you're into the finance and all that stuff, you're gonna say, ah, yeah, this is a pretty serious company you're working with, but they're gonna handle that. So there's gonna be some people that are a lot smarter than us and we're pretty smart guys, Bruce. So they're gonna definitely take care of that. But there's gonna be a lot of money to be made in. What about automated trading, like robots and things? I know that like Mt. Grox, before they had a fee, like originally they had no fee and there was a lot of robot automated trading so there's kind of two questions. One, I mean, do you think that, like how much of that do you think is gonna exist? Cause obviously trade-hills gonna charge a fee, although it'll be less than the other exchange sites. And also, what is the fee, by the way? What is the fee that trade-hills? We've got a .6% on the price, but we have a lot of discounts and things like that. Also, I'm pretty sure we're gonna see an exchange war before too long and those fees are gonna drop quick. Really, it's different on Bitcoin, .6 is nothing. How are you gonna complain about .6 when it's gone up 2,000% in the last few months or whatever it is, you know? And then when you compare it to things like PayPal, it's great, you know, that's .6 compared to 3% or whatever PayPal charges you depending on how you move. Right, right. But on the currency exchange world and in high volume, .6 is really high. So I think we're gonna see it drop a lot. But by that time, the volume will be so high, exchanges will still be profitable and people will tend to continue. And then we'll be partying on your yacht. Your yacht, I mean, one of your yachts. Well, well, a communal yacht. It'll be the communal Bitcoin community yacht. It'll be a free open source yacht. I have a two-part question myself. Tell us the fastest and easiest way to get US dollars to Bitcoins and also keep in mind that the second part is, how do you navigate through, is it the same route that you take if you have euros or Rupals or whatever? Well, it definitely depends on the currency. For example, here in Chile, I can go online and I can do a transfer to any bank free out of my personal account instantly. In that respect, the United States is really far behind. For real, I can do the same thing. A lot of the world can do online, instant free transfers to any bank in the country. So for South America, that's gonna be the case. It's great. In Chile, you could have funded your account already, just like that. The euro, it's gonna be really similar because within the EU, you can transfer money online, you can hear. Unfortunately, dollar is the one that's real pain, which is one of the reasons that Bitcoin is so popular. I think the easiest way is to just do a wire because most people that are buying Bitcoin are not buying $10, $15 worth and they're not making deposits for 10 and 15. If you're gonna deposit $2,000 or $5,000 or even $500, then just do the wire transfer. If you're with IG Direct, which I'm definitely not paid by them, but I would highly recommend them. I'm really happy with their services. I think they're a great bank. They even buy free incoming and outgoing wire transfers. Oh, that's good. That's great to know. So I would highly recommend. And actually, there's a way to get a referral code. You know what I should be using a referral code. Yeah, you should. Get it to me. They'll be a sponsor soon. And I think Bitcoin can cause them to grow, not like Waller, not like Bitcoin Waller grow, but also with HSBC. We have an HSBC account for international transfers. So you have an HSBC or IG Direct account, it's gonna be fast. We would like to accept PayPal just because of the simplicity and speed and how many people have PayPal. Right. But one, we don't really like PayPal. And two, they have been shutting down people's accounts in with Bitcoin. Exactly. They don't fall under banking regulations. They don't fall under banking regulations. They won that. And I mean, they've closed my account and seized all my money twice. They're just like, if you Google PayPal, you'll see how many sites are saying PayPal is evil. PayPal, scam, and all that. So I would say, if you wanna accept PayPal, make sure that you allow six months for it to clear because they can reverse the transactions within six months, you know? It's just ridiculous. It's not cash. You can't buy cash with a credit card anyway, anywhere else. I mean, unless you go, what I say is, you can buy Bitcoin with a credit card, just go to the bank and it's called a cash advance. Now you have cash. You know, by the way, I wanted to say this about the cost of wire transfers. I mean, in the old days, yesterday and the day before, and it would cost like 40 bucks here and 38.50 on their end, it's like 75, 80 bucks, but it was absolutely worth it. And we did the math because you put it in the duala. It was taking an average of about six calendar days, which is not good when the thing is doubling so fast. We did the math and figured out that over the, you know, even in just the last few weeks, the weight has grown that it only took $55 for it to be cost justified to pay $80 in wire transfer fees at the way it's growing. So forget the cost of the wire transfer, just get your money there as fast as possible. Duala's great if you already have money in there, but who does, you know? So I think that, and that's another kind of interesting little sidebar, we're saying, if I were in the boardroom of duala right now, I'd be saying, this is a real love-hate relationship here. First of all, there are probably more transactions going to buy Bitcoin than all the other duala transactions combined, which is kind of weird because Bitcoin is gonna be like the competitor that might, who knows, who knows, it is a different thing. So there's that. And then the other thing is that, you know, all of those people who bought Bitcoin through duala will buy them exactly once until they figure out that it takes six days, or until they get that FI sync. On the other hand, when they get the FI sync thing, this could be a godsend for everybody in Bitcoin because we can, no matter where you bank, you can get it there instantly for 25 cents. You can get it day trading, like you're listening. Day trading, yeah, I don't recommend that, though. You're gonna do that, go to Vegas, I always say. Free drinks and dancing girls, if you're gonna do that. One of my friends is a Microsoft millionaire, one of the original Microsoft millionaires, but he got hooked on the day trading and it's like a drug, it's just absolutely gambling. I don't recommend it, but yeah, buying Bitcoins instantly, that's really gonna help. Exactly, and I think going to all of those rooms, I think that's awesome, I think that's great. I think that US banking system needs, I think to me it's embarrassing, you know, when I tell people in Chilean, they say, oh, did you watch Login in your US account and send some money in your bank? Sorry, I can't do that. Right. They say, you know, and I look at Chile, it's not a third world company and Chile's doing good, you know? But the US should be ahead of Chilean banking, you know what I mean? It's something wrong here. I don't know what the reason is. I don't know if they want it to go faster. It's just greed. It's greed, yeah. Greed and they sort of, everybody's in cahoots together, so it's always just right, so they actually have greed. Monopolies, greed, greed, greed, yeah. It's not that we need some technology. No. It's just greed. It's not a financial thing. It's also political. Yeah. And that's where the. Political, financial, corporatology, controlling government and all, yeah. You know that. I mean, yeah, thank God for the internet. And so many levels, so many levels, thank God for the internet. For educating, every 20-year-old knows more than the 50 and 60-year-olds will ever know about how this stuff really works just from Google video. You know, just they learn about this stuff. And you could, I mean, talking to a 15-year-old, and they're like, you know, we went to, this was like several months ago, maybe four or five months ago, and we went to, of all places, we went to Outback, and I was there early, and I was the only one there. And I heard these two bus boys, like junior high kids. That's why the value of the money is going down, and people are actually buying like blocks of gold. And these are two bus boys, you know, it's like really reaching a tipping point in our culture that everybody, kids are educating their parents. And I don't know how many times this week I've heard people around me and, you know, calling their parents saying, listen, mom and dad, you gotta trust me, just trust me on this, buy Bitcoin. No, it's not a stock, you know, and it's kind of crazy, but you're there, I mean, so many people, and they're, you know, it's amazing, but they're convincing their parents and, you know, whatever, now that it's in Forbes, you know, Smart Money did an article this morning, and yeah, CBS News had a video blog, recently I just discovered it. But there's so many, so many things happening so fast, it's really, really hitting a mainstream media, you know, frenzy. Well, it's from Train Hill now, it's gonna lower sort of the entry to get into the actual, exchanging Bitcoin for US dollars, whatever currency it is. So that alone in itself, it's gonna allow, I'm sure there's been a demand, and that demand couldn't be fulfilled because of the barriers involved, and so hopefully I've knocked down some barriers, and the value of the increase because of that. Exactly, we've run out of time, and we still have 100 million questions. I wanna say that, you know, thank you, Jared, so much for joining us, we're just gonna continue this for another hour in Spanish, I'll show the Bitcoin, and we have decided the other day that the Bitcoin show is gonna be coming, is going to be, starting today, a daily show, every day Monday through Friday. So thank you, Jared, and thank you guys, and we will- Yeah, one thing with Bruce, we didn't mention the referral program, I just realized- No, my gosh. I don't know what that is. Referral program. Which, you know, I think a lot of people are gonna come to Train Hill because of this. Yeah. And I don't know, you got a referral code, right? Yeah, what's our referral code? You've got it there. TH- TH- R- 1, 4, 1. TH- R- 1, 4, 1. Got it. Okay, so type that in. When you go to tradehill.com, type in the referral code, TH- What is it? R-1, 4, 1. You'll get 5% off for life. So there you go. There's your gift from Trade Hill. And everyone that opens their account has a referral code, so feel free to hand it out. Tell people about Train Hill, spread the word, and then you can earn a part of the commission's generated from the people you recruit. It's like the ultimate, ultimate multilevel marketing system. And Uncle Bernie Madoff is going to be so happy that we only have to sign up three more people and we get a toaster oven. But no, seriously, you're going to love it because you refer your friends, but you're going to do anyway, and then you're going to get paid. It's what's, it's brilliant. It's really brilliant. Great design. Does that actually like go into like deeper levels? Like if I refer somebody and they refer somebody, do I get it? How many levels deep does that go? Yeah, no, we've actually been talking about that. We're probably going to implement that. We see both sides of it. I mean, we like the idea, but on the other hand, it kind of has almost a tons of work to it, which is definitely a little avoid, but it's legit. You know what you're getting out of it when you do it. So it's definitely not a tons of scheme. We're definitely going to research and some more and see about implementing that. But we like the idea. And one level deep is still a quantum leap. So we got to go. We're out of time. Great. We'll see you all tomorrow. Great job over there. 2 p.m. Eastern. See you live tomorrow. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us. Thank you.