 Good morning. Good afternoon or good evening to you all and welcome to the Global Diaspora Summit Diaspora social capital technical working group My name is Geneve Brown Metzger, and I'm president of the American Caribbean Maritime Foundation in the United States I had the pleasure of serving as Jamaica's council general in New York for several years and a chunk of my focus was on the Jamaican diaspora It was my honor also to have served on the think tank of the first Global Diaspora conference hosted by the United States State Department in Washington in 2010 with the lights of Kingsley Aiken CEO of the Networking Institute based in Dublin And I'm equally honored to be moderating the session today and very much looking forward to herring and learning from the experts and attendees As a moderator I will keep time Order and ensure that as many questions and comments as possible from the audience are answered Bear with me, please the standard house rules all microphones are to be muted apart from the speaker, of course Curtis language No Chris rocking or Will Smith stuff happening here today And To the speakers we kindly emphasize your adherence to time limits to ensure sufficient scope for attendee engagement For attendees, please post your questions in the chat We ask you to please mute your microphone during the presentations and of course remember to unmute them during the discussion period Something I've already aired on so we're all there We encourage you to participate and invite your active reflections on the questions posed Now to the substance as You will see from the agenda the four technical working groups are based upon the concept of diaspora capital Diaspora capital as defined by the Networking Institute relates to the overseas resources available to a country region city organization or location and it is made up of flows of people networks Finance ideas attitudes and concerns for places of origin Ancestry or affinity in short flows of people knowledge and money Mobilizing this capital comes through the IOM's three east strategy to engage enable and empower diaspora communities So whilst the technical working groups collectively engage the four types of diaspora capital Identified by OMS experience in the field our focus today in this technical working group is on diaspora social capital I hope you got all of that took me a while to Go it over. What do we mean by diaspora social capital? We will ask well That is defined as the networks of relationships among people who live and work in a particular society Enabling that society to function effectively What do we mean? What do we want to discuss in this technical group working group? We would want to look at specific themes Related to social capital of diaspora and how this can contribute to development Therefore key areas include political participation in both countries of Ancestry origin and residents and civic participation including through civil society organizations Let's also try to remind ourselves that the global diaspora summit is not just about taking stock of where we are But also being ambitious in our visions for the future of diaspora engagement throughout the future agenda document So let's embrace this ambition to think big and to think bravely on the great expertise around our virtual network Can we come up with our concrete recommendations? That can help our national and international leadership to shape future actions in engagement Of diaspora social capital. We have a bit of a process to help us state this through our aim today is to address Four of rather three key questions that engage the policy programmatic and partnership future of diaspora engagement policy Well, what can the future agenda document recommend at a policy level to achieve global collaborative action on the diaspora social capital? We'll come back to these questions later in the in the process Let me end by saying This is what we are here to achieve today and let's face it We want our t-term DG to be the best one of them all Do you all agree with that? So i'm delighted as you're moderated to facilitate the next few hours Where we can design a meaningful future for diaspora engagement in diaspora social capital The next voice you will hear will be the first speaker for this session It is my pleasure to introduce Well, I first first say that germany is our session host and it is my pleasure now to introduce stefan angus heister policy advisor at german federal chance rate At the federal chancellor stefan is responsible for the international affairs of the commission of our migration refugees and integration In his previous position at the federal foreign office He helped shape the external dimension of eu migration policy particularly for the minor region Stefan will speak for 10 minutes to address the imports of diaspora social capital And to provide some thought leadership on the subject as well as to share some best practice sessions learned and visions for the future stefan you're up Thank you so much jenny what a kind introduction um, I I want to keep my time short today um as uh over here in berlin. It's 5 40 p.m. Uh on a on a friday, so um, I don't want to keep you for too long um Let me first, uh, thank you jenny for for the introduction and of course It is it is an honor to have the opportunity to speak here today at this outstanding conference um, I've seen some of the sessions before and and the exchange have been quite insightful and the global diaspora summit As a whole presents this excellent opportunity to foster international cooperation and exchange regarding, um, of course the goal of The goal 19 of the global compact for migration um Together with with all of these experts and practitioners here today. I'm looking forward to to the discussion um I want to follow suit previous speakers in previous sessions in that I of course thank the government of ireland And iom for putting together this high level event That demonstrates quite clearly the strong support for the initiative to strengthen diaspora engagement Now germany is of course committed to fully implement the gcm in its uh in respect to all of its 23 goals um including goal 19 diaspora organizations Are a pillar of sustainability And that goes for sustainable development that goes for social inclusion That goes for sustainable political participation and that goes for transnational dialogue diaspora organizations are all so critical as local supporters in times of crises such as these The consequences of the unprovoked attack on ukraine Putin's war highlight the importance of ukrainian diaspora in europe and here in germany as well For our efforts to host and support millions of refugees in europe Without the our incredible support from day one We couldn't have done it and we continue to need each other's support in this Now this session discusses diaspora and social capital And geneve has sort of taken that away from me already by by laying out the iom definition on what social capital means But i want to want to repeat it real quick the networks of relationships Among people who live and work in a particular society Enabling that society to function effectively. That's what iom defines it as Now this may be a quite broad definition But it still reminded me when i first read it instantly of one of our focus areas here at the federal chancellor Namely the one that i would like to highlight diaspora engagement in the context Of integration and social inclusion In particular the potential in the context of pre-departure integration measures Now that may sound a little bit technical, but i'm sure a lot of you are familiar with the concept Germany aims to facilitate Regular migration as much as possible and assist those who have decided to come in meeting their requirements and prepare arrival appropriately before their departure Diaspora organizations hold a significant yet mostly untapped potential of social capital in this context As bridge builders they offer both know-how and the relevant network for such assistance That is why the Commissioner for Migration Refugees and Integration Miss Riem Alevali Radovan here at the Federal Chancellery Is making pre-departure orientation in cooperation with diaspora engagement a cornerstone of her term at the Federal Chancellery Pre-departure orientation is not just about the language. It's about Information on local institutions here in germany registration processes visa questions. It's about managing expectations before arrival It's about the social and political participation And it's about so much more that needs addressing prior to leaving the country of origin And what better way to convey all of these messages and provide all of this information than through diaspora organizations who have let's say And a bonus when it comes to trust for people who come from their country of origin And who have such a wealth of experience as well of exactly that what migrants in their countries are looking for before coming to germany or to any other country Our first impressions in this and our studies that we have conducted so far corroborate this We have already launched a pilot in turkey In close cooperation with the turkish and syrian diaspora For family members who who follow those who have already arrived in germany This will get us started in the field and we will soon expand our cooperation Especially with iom in this field Germany has been an immigration country for quite some time now But we want to turn it into a modern immigration country And we feel that this is part of the solution and our coalition agreement of the new government that took office in this uh in december last year Highlights that focus on on on this area So now um, I look forward to the discussion A fruitful conference and of course I remain at your disposal And thank you all very much for your kind attention Back to you genie if I guess Yes, thank you very much stephan you you helped me out there. I did not have to prompt you I was trying to figure out how to say Your time is up. So thank you very much for abiding by the time But you made an interesting point which i'm sure we'll hear more about today how this russian war has really posed for us The activities and importance of Of diaspora in all this form social political economic and otherwise It is my pleasure now to turn over to the man of the hour Somebody who's keeping me straight Roberto cancel regional specialists for the iom to present the background paper Can you all confirm that you can see the presentation? Yes, okay. Thank you very much genie. It's a pleasure to be with all of you today Thank you stephan for those excellent opening remarks I will try to go quickly because it's a lot to cover in the time allotted but just to To let everybody know I've shared the link to the background paper in the chat for those that didn't get the opportunity to look at it ahead of time Basically, we've tried to put together in this Background paper different experiences examples and case studies Regarding diaspora social capital that could hopefully help to inform the discussions today and to stimulate Some of the some new ideas on on the topic just to reframe again. We're talking about the objective 19 Of the global compact which speaks to creating conditions for migrants and diasporas that fully contributes to sustainable development in all countries in in terms of social capital One of the commitments under this objective Specifically speaks to enabling political participation and engagement Of migrants in their countries of origin including in peace and reconciliation processes in elections and political reforms Such as by establishing voting registries for citizens abroad and by parliamentary representation in accordance with national legislation So we'll see actually in this paper many of those topics how they've been taken up by different countries And just to highlight that this is one of the commitments within the global compact Here again is the definition of social capital, uh, both cheneve and stifon did a great job sharing that so i'll move on And following the structure of the background paper We're going to first look at social capital in terms of countries of origin and then in terms of countries of residence So as the the reference to the global compact may have demonstrated one of the topics within diaspora social capital is political participation and one of the points in the paper is uh refers to the balance between One side respond into the demand of members of diaspora to have a voice in political processes Especially those that directly influence them and their ability to engage with their country um that balance to uh Against over politicizing engagement, which could often be a barrier or can alienate certain groups within diaspora um So that that's a very fine balance in many countries and take in different approaches use different tools To try to achieve that balance and some are shared here through the different case studies um One approach is through structured dialogues and they provide the case study of tunisia That has a tunisian diasporal dialogue Another is through consultative councils one or many consultative councils And again here the case study of albanian diaspora coordination council is given Um, but others exist around the world. Uruguay uses a similar system as well And parliamentary representation is also given as an example With a case study of the french national assembly But again, uh other countries have this as well. Ecuador is one from the region where I currently am um, and then One of the things to note in terms of diaspora political participation is often this is based on citizenship so that to some degree Excludes part of our broader definition or broader concept of diaspora Which includes those that no longer have the citizenship because perhaps they have nationalized another country and have had to lose their original citizenship or second and third generations that lived abroad that were born abroad and may not have rights to the citizenship of the country of origin another aspect of of social capital is communications and especially Important is ensuring that there is reliable information reaching members of diaspora Especially today as we know and there's increasing vulnerability to The Where they They seem We need a中心可以 That they may have機會進行往上的溝通 Sulear技術之外呢還可以使用 Medity we will have a few Anni通過 Um, for example, Philippine the政府 You visit Meity Give Another And one of the And one of the He said You see You see You see You see You see You see and to disseminate the information that we mentioned in the last slide. A tool also for supporting Dasper Network in our registries and directories, in the case study of the registry appreciation, this is often the first step that the government implement in supporting Dasper Networks following that. So, in addition to that, we can also build these networks and these services. For example, we can do some global and some business cooperation and we can also for these organizations to be represented. An example is for example, Uruguay, they are completely under the law of the world to be implemented. So, in addition to that, they work at associates or other kind of ties and the case study here is the intel investment of $22 billion in Ireland, which was helped by Irish Daspers in the company. Another example could be the avionics industry in Morocco that benefited from having a Moroccan vice president in Boeing many years ago. And in terms of the governments, they can actually use Dasper to help their economic diplomacy, leveraging embassies and consulates to support these networks. And a very important issue, which has come up throughout our regional consultations is that the Dasper engagement is not just about asking what Daspers can do for us, but also what we can do for them specifically supporting the most vulnerable in those communities. So there's a balance between engaging the successful and supporting the vulnerable. And COVID-19 pandemic, of course, has demonstrated how those countries that have invested in frameworks were able to more quickly respond and provide support to their vulnerable communities abroad. And the case study here, also from Ireland, government for this event, the summit, is the Irish government immigrant support program. So just some preliminary reflections in terms of countries of origin. Number one, to ensure legislative framework and procedures are developed to support the political inputs of Dasper communities to provide, number two, to provide both financial and non-financial investments in Dasper organizations and networks. And number three, commit to a dual framework of engagement that both enables overachievers but also supports the most vulnerable for established key partnerships to ensure ongoing engagement of vulnerable Dasper and five create meaningful and symbolic awards that recognize and recognition tools to communicate the pride in Dasper impacts. We move them to countries of residence where advocacy and policy vision are one of the topics, where the Dasper social capital can be employed by countries of residence for local community development but also for foreign policy goals, for example, around economic diplomacy. And the important part of this is providing access to these groups to the decision-making process in the country. An example here is the case study of the all-party parliamentary group on migration refugees in the UK. Political and civic leadership is important for countries of residence and here there's an increasing recognition and embrace of the dual or multiple senses of identity in civic and political leadership. And also it raised the point of structured bodies that facilitate these kinds of leadership roles such as chambers of commerce, Dasper organizations and international business councils. The case study here, the US-India-based business council. And then looking ahead in the post-pandemic world of empowerment, we see that during the pandemic many Dasper communities were on the front line and countries of destination can use this along with the fact that many Dasper communities have been separated from their home for over the last few years to really build on the sense of belonging and loyalty in the country of residence to help Dasper's be more active agents of change both in the country of origin and in their adopted homeland. And the case study here being a small grants program that was implemented by the IOM office in Washington DC. So preliminary reflections on countries of residence, number one, to commit to activities to further integrate Dasper social capital as contributor to social and political cohesion in countries of residence to look at that local community development side. Number two, develop support and develop and support financial and non-financial develop financial non-financial support to create peer-to-peer networks between Dasper civil leaders and domestic civil leaders. Number three, commit to legislative and policy reforms to embrace Dasper social capital and domestic development and sectoral plans. Number four, create tools to amplify the voice and participation of Dasper social capital in public consultations and five embed Dasper diplomacy including engagement of Dasper's and country of residence as a key pillar of domestic and policy agenda. So to finish, we have some three overarching recommendations one at the policy level which is prioritize Dasper social capital inputs in policy developments and implementation processes in countries of origin and residence on the programmatic side. We recommend Dasper social capital engagements should enhance the operational and leadership capacities of Dasper civil society networks and organizations in line with contemporary expectations of such opportunities for further formalization of these social capital engagements. And on partnerships, we suggest that Dasper social capital engagements should be embedded in non-government sorry, must embed non-governmental service providers to ensure access to key marginalized members of the Dasper. These will include partnerships and civil society actors, foundations, international organizations and research partners. And with that, I finish and I think within my allotted time. Thank you very much. You yielded a good two minutes back to the floor Roberto. Thank you very much for that. Illuminating our presentation it's quite interesting that two I suppose major events happening globally certainly Russia's war in Ukraine and the pandemic have provided opportunities unfortunately to really see Dasper in its full fledged activation social, economic and political if I dare say. So thank you very much for that. I'm sure we'll hear more along those lines later on in the presentations and discussions. This portion of the session encompasses short presentations to reflect findings from regional consultations held in advance of this conference. Each speaker is allotted five minutes to provide his or her feedback and in order to save time the speaker will hand over to the next. I'll be keeping time of course. Luckily this is a virtual session and so anyone going over the time will have escaped my glare which can be a challenge. Now allow me please to introduce the panelists first to speak is Laura Rola regional specialist for IOM she will be followed of course by the representative of Latin America Cynthia DeSantis in the UK CEO of Healing Venezuela and the third and final speaker is professor Delali Badasu I'm not sure if he is checked in if he hasn't his presentation will be made by Roberta Cancell. So please welcome Laura to the to the floor to the floor. Muchas gracias So now sharing my screen I'm sharing my screen now to give my presentation thank you My name is Laura Roya I'm a coordinator of the regional project for the diaspora in the Buenos Aires office of the IOM. It's a pleasure to be here and I'm very glad to present these inputs they were done indeed through the regional consultation within the South American consultation and we also had the participation of the regional conference of that was recently held in that sense the considerations the political considerations that I'm going to present in terms of our input have got to do with the company the actual intergenerational change so the contributions of the second and third diaspora generations need to be considered from a point of view that is programmatic so that we can actually they can actually be included in different programs also generating the participation of civil society whether it's in the country of origin or whether it's the country of residence is something that has to be done through governmental channels and also we've been looking at how to motivate political participation and what stands out is being able to vote from overseas if you allow me I will go on to the next slide I want to keep the time as well so in terms of the programmatic considerations the first point that we came to was to actually look at the all the different contributions and ideas from the young populations and also we focused on promoting the highest workforce that was the most well qualified of the migrant community our last point there seems to be a third point here that's missing it was the actual inclusion of the actors the actions the actually promote ideas and these partners had diaspora diplomacy from people and it was from diaspora both in the country of origin the country of residence and the main points for empowering diaspora social capital had to do with these points that you can actually see such as strengthening the networks through the improvement of consular registries this was considered to be a key in terms of in terms of actually making use of good information also to accompany migrant communities so to defend their labour rights after that another priority was to allocate resources to actually accompany the educational processes of the diaspora populations and finally another priority was the need to actually advance collaboration between the consulates and the local civil society in terms of actually addressing very specific problems that the diaspora communities had well, respecting time and thanking you for the time you've given me I would like to tie up and go on to Cynthia DeSantis who's in the United Kingdom thank you very much Thank you Laura for the explanation and actually the presentation I can see we have a lot of things in Commons though I represent the European Asia and Pacific region a vast region not only geographically but also diverse in every sense even so we could find some let's say common trends when we were trying to define an ideal diaspora engagement model in the region the participants were from countries that have the very mature diasporas okay so sorry there's something glitched probably so basically just to continue with the conversation so we found some common trends even if we had such a diverse diaspora group of diaspora from policy point of view in an ideal world countries of origin and residence should both consider diaspora engagement as an opportunity for symbiosis for learning and for advancing but it's also a responsibility policies in ideal world again should be bilateral bilateral agreement between countries of origin that includes the right to vote rights to work rights to education to health and welfare pretty much what Lara was talking about as well and national development strategies should include also diaspora input because of the richness that the diaspora can bring to the table it was in general sense though that even if there are very good examples and there are very good papers written often the agreements are not followed through so a little bit more action is needed from a program's point of view there have been some tools put in place to give diaspora a stronger sense of agency in the governance of the country of residence and to allow diaspora to follow the journey of the countries of origin and we had some really nice examples from Scandinavian countries with the African diaspora, Turkey, the Philippines Bosnia, Afghanistan and Timor-Leste and I would like just to mention Portugal because actually Portugal has a very well established diaspora very well organized and they were the first to implement the global compact in response to Covid and actually it's now proving that the commission that they put in place a national commission that they put in place is actually proving very useful now with the Ukrainian crisis in terms of actors of course governments are key but also diaspora groups, civil society international diaspora networks such as iDiaspora, GDC DMACC and OIM are very important because they can guide, give visibility and credibility to diasporas now the key recommendations from this group where first of all capacity building is extremely important there is a lot of good will and good energy but the response sometimes from the diaspora can be disorganized so we need some minimum common standards that we can work together climate change resilience is absolutely vital to be introduced in the conversation about diaspora because in particular those countries that are already being impacted it's very important that it's change of technology and migrants should be and can be science and development ambassadors so to add environmental expertise and technologies these are two areas where the diaspora can play a key role to increase resilience another very important point that Lara also mentioned is diaspora youth we need to engage with the next generations to focus on communication and also investment opportunities in their country of origin and in that sense Georgia and Ireland had very good examples finally share best practices but the last message from the group was that above all what is needed for diaspora to flourish is peace so with that I'll pass the war to Professor Delali Badasu and apologies for the technological interruption hello good afternoon good afternoon we can hear and see you my internet is so unstable I cannot use the video for long so I just show my face and then I turn off the video I hope everybody can see me now so I can turn off the video so I'm from University of Ghana and I've been working with IOM for a very long time consultancy and other related activities I'm talking about social capital I have five minutes is that not it yes only five minutes yes Professor we had a national level discussion and also regional before today the social capital we're talking about usually is something we should be positive people depend on social capital to overcome challenges that they may have and also to support others so even businesses which do not have any linkages or networks are less likely to prosper compared to those which have and therefore the individual the diaspora needs social capital when they arrive at the destination those who are close to them or members of their ethnic whatever group would help them to integrate into the labor market and also do anything that is related to their success as much as possible those who are individuals lonely, low wages are more likely to face more challenges than those who have networks and therefore social capital we also know that those who have these social networks that's what we have discussed should not be taken as having the capital only at the destination they may have the capital at their origin linking them to family friends or associations and in fact if you would like to read Mazukato about how Ghanians in the Netherlands who have family friends and other networks doing so many things for them have reported in their study better success freedom and also free mind to carry on their work so first train for example is a huge social capital for Ghanians they leave their children behind so they join them later and somebody is taking care of them they use remittances to do that they also have somebody building their houses if they want to put up a house at their origin or taking care of their business so we have transnational businesses among Ghanian diaspora and also other West African diaspora and these businesses may not be managed by themselves by relatives or any other person so these are just examples that we discussed social capital is very important at the destination and also at the origin and we ended by also pointing out that social capital may not always be positive is the networks which have encouraged so much irregular migration at least from the countries that we represent West African countries when people have networks and can depend on them instead of getting documents to travel with they are more likely to be regular migrants than those who do not have such networks and I was involved in such studies and we realized that some in Africa have networks even in Asia and they are able to use them to migrate regularly they use them also negatively to do human trafficking or smuggling of migrants and for that reason we should not look at social capital as only positive but also negative and therefore we need to look at the next aspect thank you very much I hope I have used only five minutes have I got some minutes left you are absolutely fine Professor Badasu thank you to all the presenters I certainly learned a lot here and I am really chomping at the big to hear the questions and comments later on in the session and that is where we are right now it is interesting to me how the diaspora space has emerged over the last 15 years really although there are many similarities among diaspora experiences there are also unique differences and dynamics that keep us checking our assumptions and reminding us that there remains a lot to learn this journey brings us together for sessions like this and we believe I hope more enriched and excited about the work we do and now I am happy and pleased to open the floor to discussion let me just say a few things about that we have an hour for this we would like to remind you that this is an interactive exercise and to encourage your active engagement remember to post your comments and questions in the chat function please when you are not speaking for this last bit we will focus on three primary questions and we have a lot of 20 minutes of discussion on each of these questions the purpose of this session is to gather insight from you to help inform policy and the final future agenda document of the summit so we get a little academic at this point just remind you to really keep your comments succinct and to the point that said here is the first question which relates to policy what can the future agenda document recommend at a policy level to achieve global collaborative action on diaspora social capital what can the future agenda document recommend at a policy level to achieve global collaborative action global collaborative action on diaspora social capital we are waiting for questions why don't I prime the pump and start with mine is that alright is that alright Roberto in serving as consul general I was always up against what policy was I being guided by the government of Jamaica and what was driving the diaspora movement on the ground in the 33 states that I represented and I gotta tell you that it was not always smooth sailing they didn't always come together the objectives and the perspectives did not always come together the government the diaspora saw themselves being managed by a heavy hand by the government and the government saw the diaspora as being unwieldy and not the fact that they were not living in the country meant that they had fewer rights I would like to see governments think through and come up with a policy that accommodates diaspora and it's important engagement in the policy shaping on certain issues I wouldn't say voting because there are all sorts of machinations where that is concerned you don't live there so you can't why should you have the right to vote but I think as we all know from this session today and working with space you don't have to vote to have an impact but I think there needs to be more clarity on the policy level how to what extent can we engage our diaspora viewpoints, perspective on certain specific policy decisions and even giving us a right to vote on those policies any thoughts Kingsley I know you have a lot to say about this I see you there and if there's a handout from Swellakalia Janith why don't we let the woman go first if you don't mind due to before age and in proper order Swellakalia thank you so much sorry Mr. Reikens for taking the turn I really appreciate this session because I found also many inputs from currently our countries I am based in Albania I am an advisor within GIZ Albania for returning experts on diaspora cooperation and actually it was I was glad to hear from Mr. Council with regard to the mechanism which was set up in Albania in terms of political participation of diaspora which is the national coordination diaspora coordination council I just wanted to give a short input with regard to some practical contributions that was given by this council which was established a few years ago there were two very particular situations in Albania which involved them very directly the government could see the impact and the need for having such cooperation with the diaspora namely during an earthquake we had in 2019 and of course also during the pandemic situation because in these two difficult situations for the country the successful diaspora in terms of also financial successful diaspora but not only financial let's say the highly skilled diaspora they could provide humanitarian but also social knowledge on how to deal with these two situations and to let's say to allocate resources in the proper way and also to be on the field and to support different ministries on how to rebuild let's say the to reconstruct let's say the economy and the social situations and in the case of the pandemic there was a very successful knowledge exchange between the medical diaspora the Albanian medical diaspora worldwide and the local health representatives which showed up this very big need to have exchange of knowledge between the two parties in order to best overcome very difficult situations so this was sorry for making it too long this was just to give some practical examples and with regard to the question that was introduced by Mrs. Metzger what I would also being myself a a former diaspora member and since four years back in Albania and contributing to this sector what I think it should be on the attention of the institutions of the local institutions is first of all the attitude towards diaspora at least speaking from the Albanian context there is still prejudices and lack of openness and fear I mean feeling afraid of involving the diaspora as sometimes this has been seen as a third power like competition and this has sometimes limited the exchange of knowledge or economic relations or social relations between the Albanians in the country and the Albanians abroad and I would always like to remind what Mr. Aikens has already many times repeated in its speeches like there is no competition in this sector in the sense that everybody can have a contribution and everybody needs to have everybody needs to have benefits from the other side in terms of development so openness could I just ask you if you would I think we have the sense of what you're saying we have until 1239 so we would like to include others other comments I would like to thank you so much for your input Kingsley I think you were up next thank you and thank you you actually gave my point which is that I think we all have to work on the tensions with exist between diasporas the home and the host country because think about this phrase you often hear this phrase the best and the brightest have left our country so if you stayed what does that mean you are so you have to be very careful and I think there is always a tension between home and host country between people who stay and people who go and we have to be careful in our language and not say that the best have left the best have stayed, the best have left is good and bad all over the place I think in terms of the future agenda the policy level you want to achieve we are talking about global collaborative action and I mentioned this in a previous session I think it is important that the future agenda sets out the notion of having a kind of a depository of knowledge that there be one place that we can all go from all countries and learn about what is happening in different countries lots of programs are quite similar in quite similar areas lots of our discussions and debates are quite similar but yet we don't collaborate and cooperate as much as we should and as Suella said it is a non-competitive industry we are not competing with each other so there should be this kind of openness so I think a little bit of a mindset change in terms of how we regard diaspora and how they regard us and how do you begin to break that down I think through increasing interchange when India looked at their diaspora around the year 2002 and they had a high level commission of the Indian diaspora we spent a couple of years travelling around the world it's about 700 pages and you can google it you can read it tonight before you go to bed and it's basically what came out of that study was that the diaspora didn't trust India they distrusted India, there was a lack of trust there was some really difficult relationships there and that's what India set out to repair and to create the sense of global Indianness which is a really interesting notion and that's the difference between the state which is kind of lines on the map and the nation which is kind of a global notion. So here in Ireland we're a small little island off an island where it rains a lot but we think of ourselves as the epicentre of an enormous empire so we're a small island at the centre of the world we think we're full of it and there's so many of us when 10 million people left this country that's the bad news but the good news is it actually is an empire not built by military might or force of arms we haven't invaded anybody for the last 10 million people who have no plans in the future to invade anywhere but we have invaded in a kind of funny sort of insidious way through our diaspora and that then becomes an extraordinary kind of potential empire which is an empire not built by as I said people shooting and fighting but just by the fact that we have so many resources around the world and I think that's the exciting thing for all of the people on this call all the people at this conference is that we all have these empires with the provinces and the towns and the cities and the villages of little empires all over the place so I'd say yeah if we could work on that building breaking down those tensions and the best way to do that is to get diaspora to come back and to meet and interchange and we started these high level conferences and commissions that's what India started actually they have a conference in January every year of about 3,000 Indians who are leaders in the diaspora around the world come back so that's an interesting challenge and maybe that might be reflected in the future agenda that and the depository of knowledge does that make sense Jeanne? Yeah thank you for that Kingsley in fact one of the challenges I think with all the diaspora certainly what I see in the Caribbean is this lack of this place where you can go to learn about what everybody else is doing I know that's what your institute certainly started to do it is doing when you established that years ago for example one of the thoughts I had when I was in office was something like a generic core an organization that brought the diaspora which oftentimes is bigger than the population in the country I mean there are more Jamaicans outside of Jamaica than they are so the government really doesn't want us to come back home they couldn't fit us physically fit us much less have the social services to accommodate us so to think about that empire thinking notion really a brilliant one but beyond thinking about it you also posit an idea to create a destination for all that information that context that can bring us together where we can begin to not only work together like in a generic core but share ideas across borders I think that that is really important point we have really a few more minutes on this question we have nine minutes and I'm sure there's a lot more out there that persons are shy to speak about I would love to hear how the Ghanaian diaspora is going from Professor Badassou but I see that her mic is Hello Badassou she is there I was inquiring about your experience in Ghana the diaspora yes on the question of recommendations at the policy level on the diaspora social capital not broadly just on the policy level how can we look at okay so if I may stress again the fact that social capital is good it provides networks that are on businesses networks that support well-being or contribute to well-being of the diaspora so networks are good and even the government of Ghana we drafting the diaspora policy and one of the recommendations is that all Ghanians living at destinations where they are quite a number should try and belong to an association ethnic, religious professional, old students union and all that so that is recognized but we also have this concern as I said that some networks contribute negatively to the well-being of the migrant even those who have not yet left the country the networks, the kinds of networks they may join can lead to trafficking or any kind of vice so government should search networks as they are managing migration it should be an area where government would have to put in the aspects research and all that to see how they can address some of the evils that we get from networks very interesting Cynthia, I think you were trying to say something before yes thank you yes I hope that the technology helps this time I am dual diaspora because I first moved from Italy to Venezuela and then moved from Venezuela to the UK so I can see the differences between countries of origin is really striking so the Venezuelan diaspora suffers a little bit of what Roberto was talking about the politicization of the diaspora and that creates a sense of distrust in the diaspora not only from the country of origin which sees us has the enemy really because most of us left for political reasons but also has an obstacle so it's very difficult for even in the humanitarian sector like the space where Venezuela works it's very hard to get to work with the government but one recommendation that I would give is a way to create a space of neutrality for diaspora so for future agenda I would be happy to work with the government of my country in humanitarian things even if I am totally against the political mindset of the government but the neutrality and I am prepared to say swallow hard but also the neutrality is to be both ways and they need to understand that actually what we're trying to do is to help the country we're not going to change Georgie or whatever we just want what's a good point I know Kingsley is up next this political neutrality is very important because a lot of diaspora thinking is governed by who's in politics and if your person if your horse is not writing first at that time then you somehow get marginalised if you perceived as being on the other point so that's an excellent point that issue of political neutrality Kingsley you have your hand up no I meant to take it down apologies all right we have five minutes left here on this session but let's not force it let's move on to the next question I should also remind you that it possible if you can post your questions in the chat that would really help to ensure that we move along smoothly the next question goes to program we also have 20 minutes for this discussion what can the future agenda document recommend in terms of programs for diaspora engagement in the context of diaspora social capital so what can future agenda document recommend in terms of programs for diaspora engagement under the theme of diaspora social capital find some of what we said before might have overlapped the whole idea of in terms of reference with respect to engagement you know it's a little bit of a process question I find that there are diasporas in the Jamaican experience who would never darken the door of the consulate would never show up to you know political event or would never even attend a quote unquote diaspora event they're out there making money you know doing whatever they do but they want to be engaged the question is I guess part of this for me is I'm hearing you know how do we engage them and how do we help to facilitate that that engagement any thoughts step on I think Professor Bradasa raised her hand before me I don't want to really I didn't see that maybe I'm not seeing everybody that's on she may have not taken it down I'm not sure you can go first and then I come okay thank you so much Professor I think that's a very interesting question I mean when it when it comes to engaging with with diaspora we've made a wealth of experience over the last couple of years I'd say I it I guess the answer is always it depends we've made great experiences with engaging with diaspora when in terms of just lowering the entry bar so very low key first connections to diaspora organizations that are not yet so engaged in order to provide a safe space to set that first contact and then move from there we've made it a priority even over the last four years to engage to increase participatory and deliberative processes with diaspora organizations from other countries of origin here in Germany to engage with diaspora organizations from a different perspective and of course it has been it was not always as easy but like I said lowering the bar lowering sort of the entry to discussion and reaching out on a lower level first has helped us involving them in the processes that we've taken up to engage with diaspora help us understand what you mean when you say lowering the bar so for example over the last four years we have pursued what we call the national action plan for integration and it's we made it a point that it's a very deliberative and participatory process that engages all parts of civil society including of course first and foremost diaspora organizations however when you know sometimes it has a certain connotation collaborating so closely with the government for diaspora organizations they feel it could have a certain they feel if they haven't been engaged in government work before it can be a little bit overwhelming so not engaging them in the major process from day one but rather you know have face-to-face consultations first on a working level rather than the leadership level that helped us get a lot of organizations on board Meeting the diaspora and where a hierarchy is just to be consistent with Kingsley saying watch how we talk about our diasporas lowering the bar diasporas are brilliant people so we are meeting them whether they are at kind of in the American context yes I think that's one Dr. Professor Badasu you had your next very much I witnessed something in Italy which I think may be good for diaspora anyway the Ghanians in Italy decided to have a congress knowing that everybody may not be able to come and some people don't just fancy associational life so they asked every association to send representatives so it became something like a parliament where the voices of diaspora represented by the executives and I think if government can then work with the executives through their embassies it can be a way of engaging the diaspora through the executives and we also know that some of these things are gender biased usually the leadership of the associations are males usually and females will not want to be in leadership position but if we have female wings of some of these associations it's likely to be interesting to the females we also know that governments need to support some of these organizations not financially but in terms of recognition if for example Independence Day or Republic Day you invite the youth for example to do something they may introduce the chairperson or something it's all a way of engaging them socially the interaction is so important then as they grow up they want to become part of the country so it shouldn't be that top down kind of policy but engaging them so in the process they are able to also participate thank you I'm a big believer in letting a thousand flowers bloom in other words let lots and lots of diaspora organizations kind of emerge and out of that there will become some which are more effective than others so what then can home governments do I think that the important thing is capacity building of these organizations trying to build up these organizations because to me so many of them around the world you need three things to be a successful diaspora organization you need a great case powerfully articulated and most people have a good case sometimes more powerfully articulated than others it depends then you need a constituency so that means you have to be able to answer the question about your diaspora who are they, where are they, what are they doing now the three fundamental questions and then the third thing for a successful diaspora organization is you need leadership if you ask me which of those three are important, I'd say it's the last one it's leadership, people follow leaders so I think countries, home countries can spend some energy and time and expertise and maybe money is actually training these people in helping them become better leaders in supporting them both financially and otherwise I think the role of government should really be kind of facilitators rather than implementers by and large not always but by and large so I think that that's the key is finding people who can step up and become leaders of diaspora organizations and drive them forward Thank you for that I think I have a feeling that Cynthia wants to say something about this because she talked about this space, this neutral space and where you have all of the components that you just artfully spoke about what happens many times maybe it happens not so much in Europe but more in the developing world is that the politics begin to define who the leadership is is that your experience Cynthia so whoever is in government you'll find that their people or who supports them will come to the top and when that government goes out of power then somehow that group and those individuals are marginalized so this business of political neutrality when it comes to diaspora to me is one of the strongest takeaways I'm going to have here today that has happened I'm talking specifically about what my experience has been the last 20 years working in the Caribbean diaspora and seeing the ebb and flow of these very committed networks and organizations of diaspora that become marginalized when political parties fade or change or whatever else I don't know if you want to add some more to that Cynthia I don't know it sounds like Venezuela is having a similar experience specifically in the case of Venezuela as I said it was at some point it was even dangerous to operate even in the humanitarian space because of we were perceived as political enemies so I think that there are initiatives like this network bodies, this international networks are a good entry point for governments to feel more confident and also for diaspora groups to feel more confident to interact if we have let's call it arbiter so there is kind of an interface between there is not a direct interaction between diaspora groups and the government in case of hostile governments I'm talking about so I think that there is a value in this federations that are being set up in that sense in cases like ours I just would like to add something because you were talking about programs that were put in place here in the UK although there is a very nice document that actually it Roberto is in your document that you wrote about the old parties parliamentary group for Venezuela the truth is that with all due respect to the queen they don't do a lot so we feel a little bit you know quite lonely let's put it that way so what we have done in Venezuela our focus is humanitarian catastrophe in Venezuela but what we have done is created a community here in the UK around the project that is called by Venezuelan and by Venezuelan is basically an initiative that we sponsor through a grant that we got from here we sponsor small vendors Venezuelan vendors of food which is delicious of services from dentists to you know TV movies etc etc and through that network of entrepreneurs that we sponsor through our website with fairs with interviews etc etc we are creating a little bit of a community so we don't have the role of a civil consulate because that's not the place we have a program we have created our own program for the Venezuelan community to have a place to be Venezuelans thank you very much for that are there any additional reflections or Dr. Brown your hand is up but you are muted hi can you hear me Dr. Ginny yes we can okay yes I just wanted to comment on diaspora and politics and hearing somebody from my country yes you are yes you are indeed so it's good to be on the same platform with you just to introduce myself very briefly I'm from the I sit on the Global Genetic Diaspora Council which is actually a government forum and I represent the UK north and in terms of politics in the diaspora I think that this has always been a controversial topic especially from a Jamaican perspective because there are some of us in the diaspora who believe that members of the diaspora should be allowed the opportunity to vote there was even recently a call for a representative of the diaspora to sit in the senate and basically there is a desire by some of us in the diaspora for greater political agency I represented you well Kevin I made those points I'm glad you are here to emphasize them even more okay so the key thing here Dr. Geneva and everyone is that as controversial as some of these topics may be the reality is that everything we do is influenced and controlled by politics you know your taxes are defined by politicians you know the laws are defined by politicians a government a country's vision and outlook is defined by politicians that's just how it is so we cannot escape or run away from politics and my observation is that the diaspora has very little political agency in their home countries so as much as we are welcome to the spectrum of economic sustenance that we provide when it comes down to influencing politicians my own observation having been involved in the diaspora for many years is that my influence remains limited because I cannot vote I cannot put any politician I interact with into office and it means that during elections during times of campaigns there is very little there for the diaspora to look at to say that represents me so I think that diaspora engagement in the political affairs of the homeland has to happen and I know some case studies were presented earlier whether it's the French model where you have parliamentarian or senate representatives I think that could be a progressive step for other countries let me interrupt you just to bring you back to there is a session that speaks to political capital the session speaks to social capital but I am interested in your point which is that politics guides everything and this is not, I think there is relevance not only for the Caribbean but perhaps for all of the emerging countries the question is should there, we are shaping policy now this discussion is to help Roberto and his team shape policy so the question is are there any thoughts, recommendations, reflections on what we can be recommending from the government standpoint with respect to how to address and engage around more social capital are there any policy questions so far what has been offered is the importance of networks that there needs to be more support by the government on networks that there needs to be a sense of neutrality so that people can feel free to participate without any political overtones so socially engaged in a neutral space another point was leadership the importance of leadership that will encourage and build these networks so social capital can flow so just to remind you that we are focused on social capital, is it your view my question is it your view that although there is no political influence can we recommend that there ought to be in order to drive more social engagement that if the aspirants felt that they had more stake in the discussion politically if that would drive them more socially that's kind of the question coming out of what you're saying I don't know how the panelists feel about that well I agree with you that yes that's exactly where I was hitting with this is that you need the political agency to influence the social change because the thing Dr. Geneva and I'm sure you've observed this over the years is that the diaspora is engaged in a lot of social development in our homelands the diaspora is doing so much in terms of community intervention work in a lot of inner city deprived eras in Jamaica for example and I'm sure that's the same globally so in terms of social change and social impact the diaspora has definitely been a contributor but the nuance I'm adding to the conversation is that if we had greater political agency then even better because my observation Dr. Geneva is that we're not while we are supporting social change we're not influencing social policy so for example when the government decides to introduce a social policy of any nature I don't see them proactively saying we must get Dr. Geneva in the room or we must get the diaspora around the table so all these policies are being developed but we're not there but in the end we're still having this huge social impact and I'm just saying that the next frontier for the diaspora is influence policy and you perhaps need the political agents to do that very fine we are at one minute before this aspect is concluded are there any final comments apologies but there's a couple of comments in the chat box I don't know if we'd like to share those you remember that we had our technical person who said she was going to put it in the question sheet and I've been looking at that it seems like that didn't happen but I'm happy to share them for you if you could take them please that would be helpful I have from who spoke earlier she mentions that some of the things that can be done are incentives embrace financial knowledge exchange programs as well as engage qualified returnees as key advisors to also to set up consultation platforms set up professionals network platforms and then we have another comment from Melanie Salame I hope I pronounced that right that says inclusion of diaspora organizations in policymaking especially on policies addressing diaspora issues and stakes reinforcing the role of country representative sorry representative institutions in host countries and build a bridge between diaspora communities and the government system and allocating resources to build diaspora structures to be able to represent their interests and needs and I might just add in the chat I also put a link to the diaspora platform which is a global resource networking hub on diaspora which we've been working on for a few years a bit in response also to Kingsley's comment about having a sort of one stop shop for all diaspora which is what we're aiming to achieve that's all we have in the chat for now thanks I really enjoyed that discussion and all of them today that was brilliant thank you all we have our next question which is going to be about partnership and we'll discuss this for 20 minutes as per usual who are the key actors to partner with governments to increase impact in engagement of the diaspora social capital and how can the future agenda document support such partnerships who are the key actors to partner with governments to increase impact in engagement of the diaspora social capital and how can the future agenda document support such partnerships it is now 1257 we have 20 minutes so that would take us to 117 right who wants to jump out professor professor has her head professor yes actually it's interesting that what I was going to say concerning the political neutrality fits into this discussion so let me just combine I was going to say that among the ganyandas around the other hand they have political parties at their destinations the political parties we have in the country have their wings at their destination so depending on who is in power one is very active the other is dominant we have more or less a two party state and they offer all kinds of advice they also engage the government they engage the government I should say so we should look at the engagement in two ways either the government is engaging or the diaspora themselves try to engage the government especially when they want to look at philanthropy they want to show themselves as an organization to be recognized so governments may have to just manage these parties which are outside as a social capital for itself to do a number of things once they are peaceful once they don't have any conflicts amongst themselves I think it is okay because people are political in nature you cannot say that when they are their destination they should not have anything to do with politics if it is managed if it is managed it is possible that the wings will be there and they know when they should be quiet and when they should talk thank you thank you there are no other comments right now if I would like to just offer my own Dr. Badasu hits a point just as Kevin did with respect to people are political animals and that you have to be cautious about these groups who may be bad actors one of the areas I know in my own experience we should consider are organizations non-profit as we call them in America tax-exempt organizations are hosted or being run by members of the diaspora that are not with their financial reporting in this period when there is high scrutiny for organizations that are repatriating funds overseas across borders that kind of activity is under strict scrutiny certainly since 20 since the bombing of the in New York since 9-11 and it is important that these organizations that are coming to the fore and representing the diaspora groups that they be up to date in their fiduciary oversight filings tax filings otherwise they will be slammed by the US government so here's a scenario an entity has been raising money has not filed its papers the size is going to jump out there and begin to deal with diaspora issues, try to engage with government across borders in solving problem A problem B, problem C the next thing you know they get a letter that they have not done their filing could be worse that they're in some jeopardy because monies are being mismanaged misused this provides a level of risk to the government that it does not want because although the governments themselves are not responsible for this to the extent that they're aligned with or working with or collaborating with this organization they're in the soup so there needs to be some way to provide oversight some structure some requirement that these organizations are up to date and maintain their you know regulatory requirements in the host country in order to qualify to participate and to utilize I know with the case of Jamaica you could be invited to an event and you see the Consul General's logo on this invitation without approval things like that it becomes very messy you cannot you know use the government's icons on your documents on your invitations without getting approval should anything happen that's nefarious or difficult financially or otherwise the government is now seen as a partner in this exercise becomes a problem I'm not a lover of big government I'm not but I think in this area there needs to be a tidier way to manage this and to reduce the risk risk assessment where government is concerned yes Kingsley you're muted it's a phrase of the year isn't it you're muted it's all the important stuff but just thinking back to the question of who are the key actors to partner with government to increase the impact to engage I mean the players out there right now would be government we've talked about that will be NGOs and non-government organizations we mentioned that they'd be foundations and they're certainly out there as potential partners and then there's high net worth individuals and what we're seeing now is an explosion of wealth at the high end in fact Accenture did a report that said that between now and 2050 30 trillion dollars will be transferred intergenerational so the intergenerational transfer of wealth is this phenomenon the tsunami coming down the tracks and it's going to be gigantic now that money is going to go three places it's going to go to children kids are going to inherit a lot of money but a lot of people don't want to give all their money to their kids because you destroy them if it doesn't go there the second option tax most people don't want to do that the third option is you give it away and that's why Lancerby is soaring the harbor just raised 10 billion the universities are good at this hospitals are good at this but diaspora groups are good at this too and when you think of the structures in America right now and I'm sure remember you remember Jennifer when you were in New York the emergence of donor advised funds within the banking system so the biggest 501 C3 public charity in the United States last year for the first time ever was a bank fidelity with their donor advised funds and what you have in America is a million over a million donor advised funds with just thing that 180 billion dollars in these funds and they can only be used on charitable philanthropic organizations and they can be used overseas they can be used back in Jamaica or Scotland or New Zealand there are ways of doing that so I think there's a very exciting vista there opening up and that is about building those relationships etc but I think to answer the question I think there's one final piece of the jigsaw missing and I hope over the next decade they really engage with the diaspora space and that's the corporate world that's the major corporates the IBMs the Microsofts the Apple's etc they haven't yet really grasped this topic and I think we need to kind of nearly like a SWAT team to make the case to corporate America that this is big business diaspora equals jobs diaspora equals potential export potential and commercial commercial opportunities in this space I think they are the weak actors at the moment and that's the possibility and exciting possibility and you can see it in airlines are beginning to realize it increasingly you can see it in tourist related corporates etc but in terms of the high tech sector we don't really see it in the pharma sector don't really see it in the biosciences don't really see it but there's a job of work to be done there and I think there's some opportunities there very interesting Roberto thank you actually I see Dr. Kevin Brown had his hand up first you can go first and I'll follow I'm so sorry it's not on the screen here no problem thank you Robert I am Dr. Geneve I just wanted to come in quickly on the point you're making because I think it's an important one whereas often times you know the diaspora and so the diaspora gives back so much to our home countries but yes there are concerns around the quality of diaspora associations and the leadership integrity behind some of them and I think one way we could resolve that is if the consulates and embassies got more involved in diaspora associations with respect to capacity building because I am observing in terms of capacity building for diaspora associations and I think this is where the government now needs to get more involved with respect to their regional consulates and embassies and trying to make sure that they have a grip on first of all knowing these associations and who's leading them and what are they actually contributing to their home country so somehow when we talk about mapping definitely it's not about mapping the individual diaspora it's also about mapping diaspora associations and then also tracking and trying to quantify what are they actually doing and some of them are doing really really good work but we're not able to quantify their social impact so I think those are some of the key things and mapping I would argue mapping diaspora associations is actually easier than mapping individuals so that's definitely a low hanging fruit that lots of governments should perhaps try and grab first and then once you map them you should then engage them to make sure that they are of the highest integrity that you desire thank you very much we are at 107 we are here until 130 we don't necessarily have to use all the time but we're guided by the level of engagement that we have here are there any further comments on this matter before we go to wrap up Roberto are you seeing anyone in the chat? yeah there's some comments in the chat and actually I wanted to make a quick comment that actually Dr. Brown still my comment about the need for following on your comment Dr. Geneva on the need for governments to actually engage in capacity building of their interlocutors to ensure exactly what you mentioned that there are up to the high standard and I think the point on doing the mapping is also very critical and it's interesting because it came up also in the last technical working group I was participating in on human capital the need for data and information so I think it is something that obviously resonates across the different areas of and if you permit me I'll share some of the comments quickly Suella Calia mentions in terms of partners consulates and embassies I think we see them coming up quite often she says they are also actors which should serve to contact and enhance diaspora engagement so now their role in this direction has been limited and unexplored there are several comments in agreement with Kingsley in terms of the role of private sector and okay and then Sofia Orozco says from Mexico we have the Red Consular Mexicana which is a community consul which works to link the Mexican community with their Mexican origin and then Professor Padasu says yes it is easier to map and engage the associations and the individuals and maybe I would just add to that often the associations are the gatekeepers to the individuals so once you know the associations they can actually open doors to their membership and help you reach them and another comment just came in from Sheili Nunez she says certainly the work with diaspora associations facilitates implementation of national policies that benefit the diaspora and the promotion of and the promotion of information of interest sorry I was translating from Spanish on the fly and I see there's a lot of messages coming in sorry Sinzia mentions for those diasporas that are orphaned because our country of origin doesn't engage with us it's important to have an instance that gives us credibility and visibility Amira Ayeti says great points all just something to add for the home government to consider that the decisive and comprehensive reforms are needed in home countries not focused on specific sectors or group but on the overall system to create a framework where domestic entrepreneurs, diaspora members and foreign investors all see the home country as a model for economic growth in a place where they can and want to do business and that's all we have for now If you don't mind I'd like to pick up on a point Kingsley made because really he threw us a bone with respect to the potential partner that is at this point underutilized and that's corporations I would be curious to find out from you Kingsley whether such increased engagement might be tied to their bottom line companies bottom line I run a foundation called the American Caribbean Maritime Foundation and for the first time we're seeing the engagement of crews and cargo companies shipping companies involved in education like we never did before and basically what the foundation does is goes to them and tells them that we are training your next crew everyone from on the professional side no trouble finding the maintenance crew the chefs, the cooks, the clean up people nothing wrong with those jobs but the engineers the maritime engineers, the justitians the captains that's where we are training them and the companies are saying no one ever approached us before you can help us find these people out of the Caribbean we'll help you train them and once they graduate we'll get them jobs as a result we ended up launching a jobs board two weeks ago to facilitate this exercise so my question would be is it that the opportunity with corporations is more focused on their business their bottom line I would say that the shift the great shift we've seen is a move from shareholder power to stakeholder power and stakeholders includes customers, employees and includes government and the climate and I think that's the big tsunami coming down the track is obviously climate change is one of the great black swan events of our time with Ukraine and with COVID these are three massive unexpected events that have gigantic implications and don't think that we won't have more of them in the future we will so I think that ESG which is now going to be such a driver and the fact that the pension funds in the world and that's trillions and trillions of dollars we're only going to invest our money in companies that have social and governance policies they never had that before and I think what's going to happen just like happened in the 1920s when you couldn't compare company to company because you couldn't compare their accounts and they introduced gap accounting they introduced the securities controls etc so that actually we could now judge companies for stock exchange reasons you could compare companies I think that's going to happen again now companies on their performance for their stakeholders which is the environment and which is culture, society communities and I think there's opportunities in that for diaspora, groups and for diaspora initiatives and policies and programs and I think the chances are more in the mercenary or is it also very strongly tied to their bottom line their shareholders I think it's completely tied to their bottom line but the power now is shifting like the next generation coming forward like I look at my kids they've got a totally different way of viewing companies and their performance and the way they check them out and the way they won't they won't use coffee out of a paper cup and all that kind of stuff they've got power and that's the consumer at that level is shifting and having an impact so these companies for their own survival will do this so yes it's driven of course by bottom line self-interest but it could be a win-win but also win I think that's where corporates who step forward will be rewarded by the consumer Any further comments before we close Roberto I'm guided by you I see Dr. Brown's hand is still up I don't know if it's an old hand or if he has another comment Dr. Brown Kevin Brown You're muted It's an old hand but I'll make a quick comment nonetheless in terms of my observation the final thing I just note is that the private sector has played a role both in the country and in the diaspora the private sector has well just my observation and it's a Jamaican example has been reasonably philanthropic but fundamentally one of the things I've noticed in terms of social intervention and social change is that even at a government level it's not always joined up and you'll find that various ministries and departments of government will be doing their own initiatives without communicating with each other trying to fix certain social deficits within the country and then on top of that the diaspora who comes in as well and so what I've observed sometimes is that you can have multiple players trying to solve the same social problem government departments who don't talk to each other and then multiple individuals and associations diaspora as well and I'm sure if you go into certain communities in Jamaica they'll tell you that yes, various stakeholders are coming into my community trying to help so one big challenge is how do you get that all coordinated and that can be difficult and sometimes that can also face resistance from the diaspora because if the government tries to coordinate it then the diaspora says well the government's interfering so it's a really tricky one but I still find it a challenge when you don't have a coordination around that sort of social intervention because then how do you know what success looks like and that's the challenge so there is that ongoing problem I think where how do you get a coordinated shared outcome from these social initiatives that's always sometimes difficult to achieve I don't know about you all but for me this was very illuminating I learned so much from each and everyone thank Roberto for inviting me and Kingsley I'm sure you had a lot to do with that good to see you and glad that you're doing such a continuing to do such amazing amazing work in the diaspora community I want to connect with you because I want to talk with you further on the corporate side where I agree with you there's tremendous opportunity thanks to all the presenters and attendees for your support and input it has really truly been an honor for me to work with you all and thank you to Stefan and Heister in Germany for hosting this important session which has put at least for me in short focus the emerging dynamics of the rich global diaspora experience and the remarkable thought leadership coming out of what only a few years ago was in its nation stages my summary observations are really quite few but I think I hope they are concise one is political neutrality we really need to figure that out think through on the policy side how we can in layman terms get governments to stand down and let the diaspora their diaspora rip without any feeling that you know it's a partisan exercise another one is the importance of leadership and leadership integrity are really very key another one is that there needs to be increased commitment by government to support the diaspora not only talking that support but walking that support possibly with the secretariat with types of funding with ensuring that these groups have a place at the table a point that Kevin made in terms of decisions and policy whether it's economic political or social and the final one is the business of the great opportunity with corporations that are doing business in these countries and getting them to engage with the diaspora of course with the mindful that for them they're running a business and their shareholders you know are important but that they are the new pioneer they're the new frontier let's say in terms of support and diaspora partnerships please feel free to add any additional points Roberto or anyone else if I missed any of the big points on this matter I think I think I've gone through everything I want to thank you again for coming I don't know whether my next step is to hang on with Roberto or what but I'm sure you will guide me maybe we just pass the word to Stefan for closing from his side that's right Stefan I thank you but I did not pass the gavel to you thank you my friend that's alright and I think I have nothing to add I mean your summary was quite concise and I think shed light on the different perspectives and views that we've engaged today one takeaway maybe that I want to add is that for me it's always quite helpful to learn the difference of perspective on diaspora engagement when it comes to diaspora engagement from my perspective is mostly focused on engaging with diaspora from other countries of origin here in Germany and that's a completely different perspective comparing to as the German government engaging with German diaspora abroad so that's something that I think we shed a lot of light on today and that was quite helpful for me and it was a pleasure hosting today thank you Juni for your smooth moderating and your running a tight ship in terms of the schedule today but thank you so much you're very welcome with my honor and my pleasure indeed thank you everyone there is some kind of a minor you know omicron coming but I know that I pray that this will be minor and that we will all remain safe Godspeed take good care and all blessings thank you bye bye