 I love talking about this stuff, but I'm fully aware that some of the things we're gonna talk about today, it's gonna be a lot of information. And so that's one of the reasons we did work really hard and we even changed rooms to make sure you had the slides. Because this is something that, even by the end of it, I know some of you are still gonna be like, oh my goodness, that's a lot of information, and it is. So the first slide I'm gonna go to is just a little bit, only briefly, a little bit more about who I am. That was a great introduction, thank you. I am an attorney by training, I'm a non-practicing attorney because I found myself living in New Mexico, like our previous speaker Alonso, with my active duty Air Force husband. And as a consequence, I couldn't be licensed to practice law. So it's not because I've done anything wrong or I'm unethical, I'm just in a situation where professionally I need to abide by the rules and the ethics of my profession. So I'm not a practicing attorney. But what that means for you is I'm not here to try and get clients. I have a lot of attorneys and law firms that work, that I am a vendor for, that I work with. I help them with content, helping them to educate their clients. Making legally is easy to understand. And I come to WordCamps, and I give you guys information about how to protect yourselves. So if you ask a question and I answer one of the following, it depends. You're gonna need to talk to your attorney about that, or you're gonna go and need to see a CPA about that. I'm not fobbing you off. Those are genuine answers that I'm giving and that, honestly, most attorneys would give you in that situation. So just be aware of that. That download link is on this second slide. It's also on the final slide of the presentation. That's where you're gonna find a handout that covers the kind of big points of today's session. It's only a one-page handout, but it's jam-packed with information. That's my website, where if you wanna get into touch with me, that's one of the best ways. My company does do 50% of its work pro bono for screened, non-profit organizations. So if that's you, or that's an organization you work with, you can get in touch with us for that program through that. If you happen to do work for attorneys or law firms and you're looking for a content vendor, come talk to us about that. All right, so the first thing we're gonna talk about is what is liability? So before we get into the kind of nitty gritty of that, how many of you are developers? How many of you own an agency? How many of you own your own websites? Okay, so that's most people. I often ask that because it helps me to make sure I'm pitching this the right way. So liability is the state of being responsible for something, especially by law. Very often it's going to be something that's either enshrined specifically in legislation or it's something that arises as a result of a contract. So liability is, it's kind of agnostic. It is neither, it is not naturally negative, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So when I talk about the risks of liability or liability arising, in and of itself, that's just a fact of business. You're gonna have situations that are gonna give rise to risk, just that's the nature of business. But the question is what can you do to mitigate those risks and you have to do a kind of a cost-benefit analysis of whether or not that's worth the effort and that's gonna be a decision that you need to make in conjunction with your advisory team and that's gonna include an attorney, an accountant, perhaps an insurance broker and others. So today this was billed as five liability risks of building a website. I've given this talk though under a number of numbers and the way I decided to do it today was I'll give you five but I'll give you some bonuses as well. But wait, wait, there's more and there's always more. There's one thing that's not on this list that after some conversations I've had at other work camps, I think I may well add. Now this list is on that handout with a little bit more detail so that's a good reason to grab the handout but is actually accessibility. So I won't be discussing accessibility and the liability risks that can arise under the Americans for Disabilities Act, the ADA in this talk at all but I want you to know that I do know it exists and I do know it's a thing. At this stage I haven't felt like I've had the background knowledge to be able to address that adequately in a talk like this so that's why I haven't. So I wanna make sure that what I'm talking about is good information for you guys, right? So we're gonna go through each of those and talk about them in a little more detail. So the first one that we're gonna talk about is misrepresentation. So misrepresentation and fraud is a really dicey era. Now about a third to a half of you told me that you're building your own websites and so this is not gonna necessarily apply to you as much as those who are running agencies or those who are developers but it still is a helpful kind of basic principle. So the first thing is you have to be careful as a business owner not to commit fraud or to misrepresent yourself. Now that might seem like common sense but it's amazing how easy that can happen or easily it can happen. So the first one is and you know I love one of the things I absolutely love about this community is sometimes there's this like okay well we don't know how but we'll figure it out and I love that about this community but as long as you're being up front with the people paying you to do things to say like Alonzo did in the last session this is the first time we are making a website with Gutenberg and he talked to me about that last night he told his client that it was the first time he didn't represent that they had been doing this for years. Well number one Gutenberg hasn't existed for that long but that's kind of important. So represent yourself honestly. Okay you know what you know you are as qualified as you are qualified you have the certifications you have as soon as you start saying you have certifications you don't as soon as you start misrepresenting the skills experience that you have then you can run into problems. That goes for any business but I think it certainly goes when you're starting to talk about your ability to code in certain languages to build certain products to turn around things in a certain length of time. Now these are important that it's important that we're honest because they can give rise to you being sued for breach of contract a lot of the time. So next we're gonna talk about is misrepresentation so that's not just misrepresentation of you but misrepresentation of like guaranteeing results. So if you promise to someone that you're gonna produce a website for them that they will never have to touch again right? It's out of the box good to go never need to worry about it you're gonna have a problem. You're opening yourself up to get sued. The next thing is actually who is doing the work. So one of the things that I find that agencies and there's more agencies and I don't mean to pick on agencies but agencies sometimes have a tendency to kind of talk about the team and I get that and there's good business reasons for that but just be aware that some of the time when you sign a contract with especially when you're dealing with a company that's a little more savvy they may put stipulations as to whether or not you can hire subcontractors in that contract. So if you misrepresent who is doing the work and you are actually hiring subcontractors when the contract that you've signed bars that then absolutely you can be found in breach of that contract and have to pay a lot of money and have to finish a project in a new way. I have to tell you clients don't like it if they feel like they've been lied to. So if you have a team that involves subcontractors make sure that original contract allows for that negotiated in the original contract. Okay that's the benefit of kind of owning your own business is just because someone gives you a contract doesn't mean that's the be all and end all these things are negotiable they should be. We'll talk about that a little more but do me a favor if you're signing a contract with someone make sure you get your own legal advice on that contract don't trust their lawyer to tell you that it looks after you, right? All right so sorry that final one is referral fee arrangements that's gonna impact some industries more than others. Certain industries ethically have rules around referral fee arrangements but you need to figure out too especially if you're a developer or you're building or you're selling websites being up front with your clients about what referral fees you might be gaining for add-ons that you're selling to them. So kind of make you know have a think about that and decide how open and transparent you're willing to be. Next one entity choice, how many people in the room are a sole proprietor, an LLC, an S corp, a C corp, okay I got no C corp so that's not that big a shock in this room. All right, not all legal entities are equal. I wanna ask the sole proprietors and you don't have to answer aloud. How many of you can afford to lose your house? If you're a sole proprietor and you are really honestly doing any kind of business, your registered for state sales tax I wanna encourage you to go and chat with both an attorney and a CPA about that and potentially the liability that you're opening yourself and your family up to by operating as a sole proprietor. In very rare situations I would say that that's the right move but in the majority it's absolutely not the way to protect yourself. So that's I guess if you come away with nothing else from today go get yourself sorted on that front. Truly for the cost it takes to set one up and maintain it. It is so minimal compared to the issues that you might run into down the road especially when you're dealing with just protecting yourself. So if you have a sole proprietorship there is no such thing as the corporate veil. So that's where I'm talking about you could potentially lose your house. You can also run into issues with the IRS if you don't keep your business money and your personal money separate from each other. So even if under an LLC you're filing a schedule 10 at tax time you still just as you are with a sole proprietorship you still need to make sure that you can show that you're not commingling those funds. All right I want to say much more about that. Protection of personal assets is one of the big reasons why encourage people to know what business entity they have and know why you have it. It doesn't you know no skin off my nose either way just know what you have and why you have it. The pros and the cons because there are pros and cons to every different kind of business entity. I say an attorney and a CPA. Attorneys are not licensed to tell you about tax issues. CPAs are not licensed to tell you about legal issues. I love the Small Business Administration. They are amazing at giving advice for people starting businesses but they also cannot advise you as to what type of entity to start. They can give you a lot of information about it but they can't specifically tell you what kind to start or what would be best in your circumstances. You need people in your corner to help you with this. All right the next one so up to number three is illegal marketing. How many of you are 100% sure that you are marketing legally? Like you know 100% you are you've there's nothing that you're doing that is illegal in your marketing. Okay. Are we got some people that are not sure if they are or not? Is anyone doing no marketing? Are you doing no marketing? Cause honestly the only people who could be 100% are the ones that are doing absolutely none. Now that doesn't mean that I could foresee in this room and at WordCamps you would have people who know enough about their business and know enough of what's going on to know that they're being 100% legal at their marketing and I hope that you'll be a little bit further along the way at the end of this. So the first one is client testimonials. How many of you collect client testimonials? I would encourage all of you to ask your clients if you're building websites for other people or if you're providing a service to other people ask for testimonials but there's an extra thing I want you to ask for and that is permission to publish that testimonial with their name attached. If you're gonna publish a testimonial with their name attached you need to have written permission to do so and the reason for that is this thing called publicity rights under copyright and we'll talk a little bit more about I'm gonna do a full session on copyright tomorrow but this is, we'll have a couple of sections on it today. So even if they've given you, they've sent it to you that doesn't mean they've necessarily given you permission to use it in your advertising and promotion. If you'll give me, you're welcome to ask all the questions you like at the end if that's okay. So it can be in writing, it can just be that you send them an email back and say do I have your permission to use this on my website or on social media? If they then say yes, that would be fine. You're good to go. It doesn't have to be complicated but you can't just use someone's words even if they have provided them to you unless you've received some kind of permission, okay? The second one is special issues with email marketing. Now I know GDPR is a big thing not gonna talk about today if you don't know what GDPR is, you will need to learn if you are making your website available at all to people who are in the European Union areas but this specifically relates to the Can Span Act. Do we all know what the Can Span Act is? Okay, some of you do, some of you maybe don't. So the Can Span Act has very specific rules in the US for what you need to be doing if you are doing email marketing. So I wanna encourage you to do a little bit of reading about that. It's gonna include things like you need to include an easy way for people to unsubscribe. If you're sending out unsolicited emails you need to be very clear that is A, an unsolicited email and B, that you're advertising to them. I have written multiple articles specifically on this topic. You can find links to those on the website but if you're having trouble finding something send me an email and I'll connect you with those. The third one is portfolio materials. If you do some work for a client and you provide them with that work, especially if it's done under a work for hire contract you don't automatically have the right to include it in your portfolio. If you create a website for a client you sign over the copyright of that website to the client. You don't automatically have the right to use it in your portfolio. It's really important that you make sure your contracts include clauses that talk about your ability to utilize that example in your portfolio. Just make sure it's in the contract so that you're good to go and there's never any issue with you using it either as a portfolio example or I guess claiming the moral right. Although under US law there isn't such a thing necessarily as a moral right. Under Canadian law it's enshrined as it is under certain aspects of copyright in the UK. But this idea that you have the kind of moral right to say I did that. That's often the difference in the content realm between signing up as a ghost writer and signing up as under your own byline. All right, let's keep moving. As I said, contracts. So what's really problematic is no contract or a badly written contract. I would argue, here's the thing, having a written contract does not actually mean you don't have a contract. Are we all with me? Sometimes the verbal conversations you have and the emails you exchange constitute an implied contract. In fact, some of the emails you exchange may actually constitute parts of a contract even if it's not a formal written document. In order to prevent issues down the road, the reason why I know everybody wants to think of lawyers as annoying and expensive, but actually they are an amazing tool for you to help protect your business. And we can talk about ways to kind of make that a cost effective way to do things. So, as I say there, there's a false economy in avoiding using lawyers sometimes. So too, be careful of finding a contract online, copying and pasting it and just saying, oh, I can edit that. Because sometimes your state, every state, especially in the US, has very specific rules and regulations. And so sometimes what might be appropriate in one state, it's gonna be the wrong wording in another. So that's where you're gonna wanna talk to a lawyer. What you can do is find attorneys who sell templates online. And now they have to be an attorney. Please, please, please. There's a lot of people who sell them who should not be even writing them. I don't even sell them because I believe it's unethical as someone who's not currently licensed to practice. But I have clients who do sell them, who are attorneys. And what you can do is buy an appropriate template for your industry, take it to a local attorney and have them edit it. That can be incredibly cost effective for you. So you get the industry expertise along with the local expertise. And then you get something that is customized for you. So that's a way to save a little bit of money. Contracts like your website are not set and forget. You're gonna need to have them reviewed every couple of years. All right, that's my like, don't mess with me face. Okay? I have the copyright just as an example. The copyright for all the photographer there, she has given me written permission, a commercial license to use this image. And I say that intentionally because if you are on your website, go to Google and find an image that somebody was discussing at lunch and throw that up on your website. If that image has been registered with the US copyright, although it does not need to be, throw that out there. You can be subject to statutory damages of up to $30,000 with up to $150,000 if it's willful infringement. You knew or should have known that that was under copyright. It's really important that every piece of content you publish has a clear identification of copyright ownership. Now here's the thing, credit is not enough. I'm not talking about attribution, I'm talking about licensing. Finally, if you are having clients provide you content that you're using to build a website, consider making sure that your contracts include indemnity clauses and waivers so that you are not held responsible as the website builder or developer for that copyright infringement that they're conducting. I really want to encourage you, if you have clients that have a tendency to do that, invest some time in education because it could save you time later. And hopefully over time, you will get to know those writers that are out there. I do a lot of work for a website, a photographer's website, legal issues to do with photography and that's something I send people to a lot and she happens to be one of my clients. Okay, so privacy and data breaches. This is gonna be one that potentially could give rise to a lot of liability issues, especially both just under the general kind of breaches that we've seen lately in the lawsuits that have come out of them, but also in relation to GDPR. So damages from a client and recovery of damages from you if the client gets sued. So if you've provided, you're the one who's committed copyright infringement, put some stuff on their website and given it to them, then they can turn around and add you to that lawsuit. And you don't want that to happen. Privacy policies are gonna be something that I would encourage you to make sure that every single one of your websites has. I would really encourage you, if your website at all is available for visitors in the EU to make sure that is GDPR compliant. I want to encourage you to have errors and omissions clauses and consider errors and omissions insurance if you're doing any kind of professional work that specifically involves privacy. Once again, look at indemnity clauses for your contracts on the matter of data breaches. And if you're doing a lot of this work, those of you who are gonna know and hopefully will already have this kind of insurance, I really wanna challenge those, be very careful if you have a medical professional who wants you to build their website and they want any kind of personal biometric data collected on their website. You're running into a whole bunch of issues with HIPAA. If you know what you're doing, great. But if you're even a little bit unsure that you know what you're doing, honestly, like walk away, it's just not worth the risk. Unless of course they're not collecting any data at all, but even still be careful. All right, so we have three more left. I'll get through these fairly quickly because I wanna have time for questions. So once again, data loss and infrastructure damage, consider the importance of your insurance, particularly professional liability insurance. You have a responsibility both, actually pretty much under the law of every Western country. You have a responsibility to mitigate data loss and infrastructure loss. So infrastructure loss can be as simple as a server issue. Can be as simple as someone coming along, someone who works for you, spilling a cup of water on a computer. I mean, those could constitute a form of infrastructure loss. So this is where insurance can come in handy. Once again, making sure your contracts cover these things in indemnity causes and errors and omissions causes. All right, second to last area. We have groundless legal claims. So just talked about all this stuff and you know what? You may be doing absolutely everything right, but that doesn't mean that you might not be in a situation where someone sues you anyway. And that, you know, that really, I mean, frankly that sucks. Like it shouldn't happen, but it does. So I wanna encourage you to make sure that you have ways of approaching things like charge backs, making sure that your business collects appropriate information to be able to prove to companies like, you know, to your payment processes like Stripe and Square and PayPal that you have actually provided the services that you've charged someone for to prevent those charge backs. If you're selling a product, making sure your systems are robust enough for you to be able to prove that you've sold that ebook or you've sold that physical product. I wanna encourage you that although I don't believe that every customer is always right, if you need to yell at someone, don't yell at them first. Really exercise your strength. It can be very good for your business. I mean, this is both business advice and legal advice. Just don't yell at them in the first instance. Take some time. Try to be as gracious as you can because it can actually help you diffuse the situation and stop it ending up in that kind of groundless legal claim which costs money for everybody. Consider using cease and desist letters rather than going straight to a lawsuit. Once you have something like a cease and desist letter in your tool belt, so the first one you might have your attorney work up for you, but then you kind of have one in your tool belt that you can use as a template for future ones. And then finally, that's where professional liability insurance really comes in because they can defend you against those groundless claims. And for the cost of five or six or $700 a year, being able to defend you up to hundreds of thousands of dollars of legal costs, it's absolutely worth the cost. All right, a client gets sued and you are added as a respondent. So that's where you can be liable as a third party or your client sues another service provider like the host or something and the service provider adds you in a counter seat and says, no, no, no, it's not our fault. It's that person's fault because that's how they built the website. So just be aware that sometimes you can not have anything to do with what's happened and still end up getting pulled into things. So this is where this stuff is important. All right, as I go through this next section, feel free to ask questions as we go through these last couple of sections. So I'm gonna start with the assemblers and developers. I wanna encourage you to make sure you have a contract and it clearly details copyright ownership in the contract as well as those who has responsibility for the legitimacy and the kind of, it's clear of copyright ownership issues if they provide it to you. Have it drafted and or reviewed by an attorney. If your client provides a contract depending on the jurisdiction you're gonna wanna have that reviewed by your own counsel anyway. And then finally, indemnity clauses and liability waiver clauses should be included that are relevant to your industry and your business. Helen, you had a question? People have different names. So they even call themselves builders, website builders or website assemblers. That's just language. I've heard people at word camps used to describe themselves. Similarly, this is gonna apply to everyone but if you're doing work for other people be aware of default work for higher copyright. So what that means is sometimes if you're a service provider, you may think, oh well I created this therefore I own the copyright but sometimes the contract will specifically detail that it's a work for higher job which means that the copyright automatically transfers to the customer. So you just wanna be aware of that if you are someone who wants to maintain the intellectual property and the work that you're producing that that is detailed appropriately in the contract. Build your portfolio legally. I do believe client education is an investment and it's absolutely worth your time. If you're someone who's producing a lot of images consider whether or not registering those with the copyright office is potentially a good thing especially because of those statutory penalties of 30,000 and 150,000 for willful infringement. If you are somebody who is producing content please for your own sake and honestly for the sake of all of us defend your copyright, send the DCMA notices. Does everyone know what a DCMA notice is? Okay, so let me make sure I got this right. Digital copyright management. Oh, digital copyright millennium act. Okay, there we go, DCMA. I say the DCMA so often I don't normally say the name of the act out loud. Really what the DCMA notice does is tells the ISP of the website that they have some material that is copyrighted that they should not be using that they're committing copyright infringement and the ISP's responsibility is just to take that down until so you're not contacting the person themselves you're contacting the company that's hosting their website with a DCMA notice. A cease and desist notice is gonna be something that you send directly to the person who is or the company who is infringing on that copyright. There are also platform specific forms and requests. So, you know, most of the social media platforms have that form, just be aware some of them you're gonna need to do it two or three times. I have this ongoing battle with Instagram. My husband's a runner, probably two to three times a month, running magazine still as images because he takes great images of himself running, like training and stuff. I'm the one who does those reports for him on the basis of both publicity rights and copyright ownership because he's in the images and he's taken them for himself. And the amount of times I've had Instagram come back to me and say, oh no, no, no, we don't believe that. Like, no, like, so usually I have to write a whole paragraph and explain to them the difference between copyright and publicity rights and it is both. And you know, here's the original image and this is the time that we did it and this is the time they did it. It can be some work, they shouldn't be doing that. The, you know, whether or not they're an arbiter is a question that I have a problem. Either they're an arbiter or they're not. They can't be both. Finally, insurance doesn't limit liability. It's just really, really important to know. You're not getting insurance to limit your liability. You're getting insurance to protect you if that liability is found to exist. So it's there to help mitigate financial losses. It's there to help defend you should legal action be taken. Like interest rates and insurance premiums, sometimes the cost of consulting an attorney is the cost of doing business. It's something that I spend a lot of time saying to the WordPress community. I don't want you to be scared of talking to attorney. I don't want this to have scared you all. I just, it's more that opportunity to say, okay, what's the next step? How do we make sure we protect ourselves and move forward? All right, any questions? Cause we have a couple of minutes, I think. Yep, okay, no, you can ask it, but we're not going to be able to go into it in huge detail here. Okay, great question. Great question. Okay, I have one question for you. Is that website available to people, for anyone in the UK or the EU to visit? Yep, then yes, GDPR applies. Theoretically, yes, but what does it cover if a US citizen is in the EU? Okay, you would need the opinion of someone who's working on this, but I would say you're much closer to not having an issue. Yeah, I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's really the only solution right now. But here's the thing, we don't know yet what's going to happen and how it's going to be enforced. Where can we get smart on this? On GDPR? I did a session with iThemes with Nathan Ingram. I did a webinar with him a couple of months ago, exactly on this topic. It was an introduction to GDPR. Yeah, it's available. In training.iphemes.com. Yeah, and I did it exactly on this topic, and we're actually going to do another one in a couple of months where we dig even deeper on the topic. But here's the thing about GDPR. I want to encourage you, there are a lot of people out there saying they're GDPR experts. That regulation, set of regulation, is 20,000 pages long. I've read 5,000 of it. I don't claim to be a GDPR expert. Most of the people claiming to be GDPR experts don't have a law degree. Okay, I have that, and I'm still not a GDPR expert. So what kind of threat is this opposed to businesses right now? GDPR? If you are collecting biometric data, are you collecting an IP address? Do you have Google Analytics installed on your website? Then yes you are. Do you have people visiting your website from the EU? But what's the threat from? What order of the earth can it be? A lot of fines. And potential third party liability. That webinar details a lot of that stuff. So funnily enough, I have an I-Themes webinar, which I do not work for I-Themes. I do the webinars with I-Themes pro bono. The mic isn't working? Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, okay. So I am actually doing a webinar on exactly that, how to find a lawyer and roughly what it's gonna cost you. Yes, what it's gonna cost you. My best advice is first look for the ones in your community. So there's a couple of great resources. The American Bar Association's website has a really good list. It has a directory that you can look up. Depending on your industry or business type, there might be a certain type of lawyer that I would recommend. For example, if you're doing a lot of intellectual property heavy work, then that is an intellectual property attorney as a federal attorney. They work in federal law so they don't necessarily have to be located in your state. But if you're looking at straight business law, you may want someone that is licensed in your jurisdiction. Well, but even an e-commerce website, where are you physically located? Because that's gonna be one of, and where is your business entity formed? Because that's gonna be one of the ways that you figure out what state's law is the venue of choice. All right, was there someone else with a question? So the intellectual property infringement was the section on copyright. So the entire session tomorrow is on copyright. Yeah, the whole thing. All right, that's really annoying. I actually checked it two days ago, hang on. Yeah, I mean, I did, like I really try to make sure I checked those, but it did work for someone else. Okay, fabulous. I'm sorry, I really should have made better Bitly links for you guys. Yeah, I've done probably four or five webinars with Nathan specifically for WordPress people. So you can check those out. Depending on your industry, I think I've probably written about 250,000 words on legal issues as they relate to intellectual property copyright and businesses over the last two years. So send me an email. Sometimes I've had people contact me after word camps and say, I live on my favorite was I live on this island that used to be the domain of the Netherlands, but now it belongs to some other Caribbean country. Can you tell me how I register a trademark? Now to that person's credit, I looked at that and went, geez, that's a good question. Like that's interesting to try and figure out. And it actually took me a little bit. It took her a little bit and we did find her not necessarily a 100% answer, but we found her a couple of attorneys that live on that island who were intellectual property attorneys. So some of the times that's kind of what we do, but yeah, there's a bunch of handouts. I actually, if you go to that webinar, the GDPR webinar, there's a handout specifically linked to in that webinar as well on GDPR and being compliant. So, yes. The divorce, I go to a divorce attorney. Yep. We need an accountant that can see VA. When we need to discuss as a web development company this type of online law, what type of lawyer do you look for? Well, so it's a little more complicated than that because it's not just online law. It's going to depend on what state you're in. Are you going to be wanting to talk about trademarks, copyright issues? Are you going to be wanting to talk to them about contracts? Yeah. Well, so once again, it's still going to depend what is your larger industry? So what's the industry in which your website, what does your website do? Well, we're a web development agency. Okay. So any contracts looked over? Okay, so it involves like code and development and things like that. Okay, so for example, so I have a client of mine who is an attorney. She is a trademark, an intellectual property attorney at Hart, she also does business law. She also has a degree in computer science and she works predominantly for software and gaming companies. She's an attorney for them. She would probably be one of the people that I would recommend to you guys. Now, she wouldn't be the only one because I usually recommend two to three people and there's a good ethical reason for that. But she would be for an example, someone that I would recommend in your case. Now, which state are you located in? Florida. Okay, she's in Nebraska, but you know what? I know another attorney who is licensed in Florida who also does similar work, both trademark and copyright and business law. You wanna find, the reason I ask those questions is you don't just want someone in your state or someone who does business law. You need someone who does have a background either in e-commerce, websites or in your case, like that more of that software type coding stuff where they're needing to understand the distinction between open source and sort of proprietary content. There's been a lot of developments in the last few months on whether or not and how much software can be patented. So if you're working at all in development of software applications, you're gonna need to find an attorney who actually understands that those developments have even happened, right? So yes, I can't always find everyone exactly what they need, but after a couple of years doing this, I have a pretty good Rolodex. I'm also a military spouse attorney and there are three and a half thousand of us. So we joke that Kevin Bacon's got nothing on us. We can usually find someone, if we don't know someone, we can find someone in the jurisdiction for you that has a broad experience. All right, I think I'm done. Maybe one more question. No, so it'd actually be called an intellectual property attorney, but tell me the industry you're in. So it's a content-based project. Yeah, there's a couple that I think would be more specialist in that, but you're looking for an intellectual property attorney or they call them like IP attorneys is what they like to call themselves. But for you to start with, I would definitely just seek out like a business attorney with a background maybe in publishing, whether that's online or not. Because if you're dealing with writers writing for you, you're gonna have to deal with who owns the copyright. Thank you. Thank you.