 in central Pennsylvania, there weren't a lot of opportunities, which is very true today still. But I wanted to really get away and try something different. So I joined the army at 17 and had a very successful career there until I was injured and could no longer do that. So I ended up becoming a civil servant and working in the federal government and then later with industry. So, you know, I've really come to know and appreciate the Department of Defense in many different ways and many different forms that have continually supported that over 35 years now. Well, now the name of your company is Strategy and Management Services Inc. Yes. Is there something behind that name? That's a funny question. Well, you know, being in the military, we love acronyms. Right. And I knew that I would have to find something that I could make into an acronym. So, it was going to be strategy and I knew there was going to be management. So I was trying to make those two words fit together in a name that was available. You know, you have to, when you're registering your company, you have to, you can't, you know, duplicate anything and you certainly wouldn't want to duplicate something out there. So that's what we ended up with and that converted to SAMS. Did you trademark that? We did not trademark it. We actually attempted to and there's a company that's in Europe and they have a product that's called SAMS. We think we're that trademark to expire. Man, listen, you probably make more money off the government now that now that they got the SAMS system that we're using. I know, I know. We predated that. So I know, I know, I see you. I have it here in my notes, 2008. Yeah. So we're going to wait for that trademark to expire and then we'll make sure that we go back in through that cycle. Okay. Now, your business operates in multiple industries, healthcare, banking and finance, utilities, education, government. Tell us, what was your first foray into the world of business? Where, like, where industry just started? So we started with defense and start with what you knew. That was very easy because you knew it and you didn't have a learning obstacle to overcome to be successful. I also knew that, you know, during the time we're talking 2008. So we are smack dab right in that recession. In order to go out the gate successfully, I felt that I would have more opportunities if I did what I knew. Because again, as an entrepreneur, you don't know how am I going to attract employees, how am I going to pay them? How am I going to do all these things? So I figured, you know, worst case scenario, I know how to do this, do what I know. I know how to do this and I'll be able to deliver if I can't hire someone. You know, that's actually was my second question. You started in the middle of the recession, like in the real estate crash, but like, why did you start then? Why in 2008? Well, it wasn't planned for that time. What happened was over the course of my career with the Department of Defense and the various services, I had the opportunity to see acquisition and how the government buys things, particularly Department of Defense and military services, how they buy things. And actually, one of the very few people, I'm sure there's more now, but at the time, one of the very few people that actually worked in the defense acquisition lifecycle from concept to sustainment. And I worked in every phase of that, which gave me the unique opportunity to work in the Army CIO's office and the Chief Information Office. And I happened to be sitting at the Pentagon in a meeting and it was what we called the Weapons Systems Review. And it was where they were making funding decisions about which investments were going to be made in support of our service members. And I sat there and I watched, you know, certain programs not get funded had I been in uniform, I would have one of these. And it was then that I had this spark that, you know, I want to do this, I want to create a business that's not just focused on the bottom line, but how we take care of our employees and our community and our clients. So that was very early on in 2000. But I also knew this at the time that I had only worked for large companies, large 4 to 500 companies. So I needed to really understand how small business work. So in a very dear friend and still do today, her company was becoming medium size at the time. So and she was growing as well. So it created a unique opportunity for us to be able to work together and to learn from each other on how business grows and how for me how small business runs. So I went to work with her for some time before I actually launched SAMS. And it was, you know, I think that when you don't have a safety net, you figure out a way to survive, right? Yes, yes, absolutely. So it got to the point where it was like, okay, it's time. You know, you just you you hear that inner voice and, you know, entrepreneurs are risk takers. So you I heard that inner voice and it said, do it now. So I gave my friend my resignation. I went home and waited for my husband to come home. Like, what are you doing here? Because, you know, I was never home before him. And I'm like, okay, so I quit my job today. Now's the time. And, you know, he looked at me and, you know, we had been married for quite some time by then. And he's like, okay, we've been through challenges before. We'll figure you'll figure this out. I, you know, and he had faith and and trusted me and knew that when I put my mind to something, it's going to work out. So, you know, it just happened that way. It certainly wasn't planned to be right at 2008. It was just I heard that calling and said, this is where I need to be. And this is what I need to do. If not now, then never. So let's do it. Excellent. Excellent. Would you recommend that people work with small businesses first before jumping out on their own? I would say yes. You know, that experience that I gained there was so key and so instrumental to me being able to do things right the first time and not have to learn from my mistakes. Running a business, a small business is very different, especially in the government space. There are a lot of statutory and regulatory requirements that we have to adhere to. And when you're in a large business or in a large company, you don't see those things that small businesses have to do to be able to be compliant and to be able to be what they call procurement ready. There's a lot of work that goes into laying that foundation to actually be ready to be awarded a contract and be successful in executing that contract. Well, no, that's very true. And I and you know, you hear that so many small businesses, they just jump out there and people come to me. They don't understand their pricing. They don't understand sourcing. They don't understand the paperwork. You know, did now those things. Okay, let's say this. What did you learn at the large companies that they gave you that the small business didn't and then vice versa? So at the large companies, you know, I weren't one of the ones that I work for. It was a management consulting firm. And I got a lot of experience there, more so than what I did with some of the large system integrators. And the reason being in that management consulting firm, you were responsible for your project execution. You know, not just the delivery of that product, but the entire project execution. So I got to see a whole lot more when I worked at that at that firm. So that was, you know, of course, very beneficial because I got to run my projects and to be able to see that inner workings of the corporation. So that was, of course, very beneficial. But at that small business, you know, there's just so much more that goes into standing up a business, doing all of your compliance and your certifications and maintaining those and the way your bylaws are written, you know, your corporate bylaws, you could be structuring your company in a way that it may not be able to be certified at a later date. Right. You know, so things like that, there's a lot of nuances that come with running a small business that are unique to those type of entities that large corporations don't necessarily see or have exposure to. I would agree with that. Now, in working at some of those large companies, is that where you gain the confidence that you could run your own business? Because you saw it from end to end? Or because you've managed the project and, like you said, you were responsible for the actual execution? Yeah, that's a good question. So I don't know if you ever really gain the confidence, you just do it, right? Right, right, right. But I had a lot of, I had peers, colleagues, friends, co-workers saying, you should be doing this, you should be doing this. So that kind of gave me, you know, that encouragement that I needed to solicit it. Because I wasn't even really thinking about it at the time. I've always been deliberate with my intentions and I think that shows in my work and that shows in how I take care of people and how I treat others. So because of that, a lot of friends and those colleagues were telling me, you should be doing this, which kind of sparked that, well, let me think about it. Right, yeah, no, no, yeah. It gets the, yeah, no, it put that, plenty of that seed in your head. Yes, exactly. Now, did anyone tell you you were crazy? You know, I think everybody, I think if you're an entrepreneur, you have to be crazy. I think so. That's a great answer, Stacy. I love it. I love it. You have to be crazy because, you know, especially doing what we do, we're not doing what everybody else is doing. So we're going down a different road, a different path that's never been crossed before. So you have to be crazy. That's when you get innovation, when you're doing something that's never been done before. And that's how I encourage our team to think. That's how I encourage them to execute. We are going to be known for something that doesn't exist yet. So we're going into the unknown. So yes, are we a little crazy? Absolutely. Great answer. Question. I saw, and going through that you were part of the workforce development, is that, when you sat on that board, is that part of your strategy for recruiting people, or was it just a relationship that developed over time? What do you see as the benefit of sitting on the board of workforce development? So it really was just a relationship that developed over time when I got the invite to do that. But at the same time, I want to say that, you know, at SAMS, we have three core values, and that's commitment to our people, our clients, and our community, right? So I see that as part of my community service is sitting on that board and being able to look at what's happening in the workforce. How is it developing here in my community? How are people being trained? How are they receiving the education that they need to be successful and to continue in this environment as the workforce is changing? So I've always been about that. You know, as an entrepreneur, I am a job creator. So I really consider that part of my duty. Okay. Okay. Now, as I was reviewing your profile, I noticed that the University of Virginia, you took a graduate certificate program in procurement and federal contracts management. Yes. Can you tell us about that curriculum? Because I've never heard of anything like that before. Yeah. So it was really great. Definitely one of the things that have helped my business. Again, two people starting a small business. If you're starting a small business in government contracting and you haven't familiarized and got real comfortable with the federal acquisition regulation, you do not need to be starting your business. Right. Right. That's our Bible. That's our rules. And again, for me, having had that experience in that defense acquisition lifecycle going from concept to sustainment, I dealt with the FAR all day long in how we were buying IT equipment for our service members. So I understood that and I had some very good mentors along the way and I grew into the space that I was in. How the government buys is so important to being able to understand government contracting. So when that program became available, and it was a shared services program, so it was six courses, it was an MBA, and it was six courses with Strayer University and six courses with UVA. Okay. You ended up in, at the end, was you got your MBA from Strayer and you received that graduate certificate from UVA. So it was a really good program. And I mean, we dug deep into the FAR and understanding it and actually doing, you know, case analysis and actually debating some of the decisions as well. So it's very, very interesting. I met a lot of good friends along the way, a lot of contracting officers in that program as well.