 Our next session is decoding the next big pivot for the music industry for our new viewers. This is Preeti Katpal, your host from Mumbai and we're celebrating World Music Day brought to you by LoveThis.in with showcase brought to you by Exchange for Media and BW Business World. Well, it's time to welcome our second panel. We have the Prince of Bangra joining us here. Team, do we have him here? Yes, are we ready to welcome him? Alright, let's get ready to welcome our second panel. We're going to talk about decoding the next big pivot for the music industry. First up, we have MD and President PDC Network. Please give a warm welcome to Mr. Ravindranarayam. Hi Hamid. Very warm welcome, sir. I hope you are in love with music like all of us. Would you tell me which is your favorite genre of music? Since I look off of Punjabi, so I would say Punjabi is that's what the beat is right now. That's what is making the world go around. So Punjabi music. Alright, yes, sir. We're talking about music and Punjabi music, which makes us dance. I can also see Siddharth here with me. Well, he's a German CEO of Event Crafters, Siddharth Chaturvedi. Hi Siddharth, how are you? Very good, P.P. Happy World Music Day to all of you and everyone really delighted to be here today and looking forward to a great engagement. Well, it's wonderful to have you here. You've also done a lot of events, music related events, correct? Yeah, I've been a festival for these, we've done many music festivals. So yeah, we're very excited to listen to the journey and a lot more. Well, before that, we also have composer, music director, Shamid Tandon. Has he joined us? And I'm really excited to meet the Prince of Bangra, Sukhbiri. Do we have Sukhbiri joining us? Team, can we have them on? Alright, so let's get ready for our next session, which will be led once again by the CEO of Showcase Events. Once again, please welcome Nani Singh. Oops, sorry, sorry, I didn't realize that. Sorry. Hi Siddharth, nice to see you here again. Always good to see you. And hi Ms. Siddharth, I'm good to see you again. So thank you Preeti and a perfect day to meet up yet again. And I just saw a message saying that I'm moderating the session. So lovely. We are waiting for, I think Sukhbiri joining us from Dubai. And I don't know where Shamid is just now. So I guess he joined us some stage. But however, because we've got there's a certain time that's been allocated. So let's get cracking. So, you know, talking about introductions and talking about knowing more about you. So I think best would be if you tell us about yourselves, about your connection and your musical journey and your, what does music mean to you? Because today we're going to be moving on to decoding the next pivot. So but first let's understand what music means for us. So over to you Mr. Nala and let's hear from you. Music for me is life. I mean, there's no music, there's no life. And as they say, the entire world was created out of a beat of the sound of home. And that's the creation sound. And since we run about six Punjabi channels, and three of them are music channels, PDC Music, PDC Chakde and PDC Gold TV. Plus we have a record label, PDC Records, where we record those who cannot afford to record and make their videos and record music. We help them. We do about 500 to 600 original songs in a year under PDC Records. Then we have a streaming app where we stream all this content. Plus we have 19 beams going across the world where the world is enjoying the Punjabi music. And I would say the success of Punjabi music has been the Punjabi channels led by PDC and others, Tashan, Nemechwan and the likes. And Punjabi music as we know, today rules the world everywhere you go. We had Canada, Australia, Dubai, USA and far away places like New Zealand, Belgium, Spain. I've seen packed houses in Spain listening to Malkeet Singh's live show. And so Punjabi music is across the globe. And right now it's the Indian music is known with the Punjabi music. I would say the sound of Punjabi music has made Indian music popular. The other forms of Punjabi music which are now emerging, the rap, the fusion, the folk pop and all those new things which are coming in. They are making it more popular amongst the not just the non-Punjabis, but even the non-Indians. The audiences abroad in US, Canada, UK, Australia, Belgium, Rome, the whole of Europe I would say. People are listening to Punjabi music and Punjabi music is conquering the world by its ability to adapt and to merge and to fuse with other forms and to inspire them. That's right. That's right. You know what you just said, I will just give you my little incident which was really surprising, Siddharth. This might interest you as well. It's like I was down in Greece for a Thalassimia conference which is like a few years ago and down in the small place called Thessaloniki. So you know, you wouldn't even think anybody would understand. But of course, like Greece is like India, you pick up a stone and there's a musician. So there's a lot of rich culture over there and art and culture and music and art. And of course, you know, like every conference has a gala, dinners in the evening they had this music, et cetera. And we had a big delegation from India over there, but people were there from across the world. We were about 1500 delegates for that conference. So then came the Greeks had put together this musical evening and they came up with their instruments. So there was this big instrument which looked like a dhol. Okay, and beautifully they were playing pretty. I want to do our rhythms, but they were slower rhythms and they were playing their rhythms, et cetera. We had one Serdi in our delegation. So after a while of, you know, listening to their music and the patients, you know how it is after a few drinks down, the patient was kind of wearing out. He just went and he said, can you hold? And there was language was a big barrier because they couldn't understand what he was saying. He said, can you hold? And the guy said, yeah. He said, sticks. He took the sticks and he started playing the Punjabi dhol. All the people who were sitting were on the floor. All the people, then they had on the pendrive, they had Gudunalu Ishgvitha. They gave it to the sound guy, the DJ. There was no DJ, I mean the sound guy. They gave it to him to plug it into the laptop and played it. Everybody was on the floor and the song was played in a loop. So all exactly like, you know, retracing what you just said is like Punjabi music has captured the world and a non-Indian audience. But it's the rhythm. It's the rhythm in the music. The sound is so powerful. And we were all on the floor. I think we probably danced for two hours after that and there was no stopping. The beauty of the Punjabi music is that it has passion in it. And that's what moves everyone who listens to the Punjabi music. Even the softer songs. It's not just about the Gudunalu Ishgvitha. Even the song is about the night. Like where? Look at the softness in that song and how it goes on and on. You see the boliyan and tape, two lines tell you the whole story. Look at the poetry even. Probably the closest to this would be Haiku in Japan. But this is amazing stuff and it's doing very well. It's finally got its glory in live music. And similarly the Indian music writing on the Punjabi wave is getting its glory now. Absolutely. And I'm so glad that in our lifetime we've seen musicians making a career out of it, making money out of music. Perennially if you've seen from the olden times the classical music or the folk music, they would live in penury. I mean, masters would be on their deathbed where nobody is able to look after them. And look at the music stars now. They're driving the Ferraris and the audience. And they're getting 40 lakhs a show or 25 lakhs a show. So that's a brilliant thing which has happened. Musicians can actually make a living out of music. A profession out of it. Earlier it was a passion and then one just kind of dived into it. Look at Ustad Bismillah Khalsa. You get goosebumps when you see what he has done with the Chennai. And then look at the way he went and that one which I mean he was alone when he died, not a person and not nothing to, you know, there's no palace that he went in. So I agree with you. And that's just the fact, yes, I think it is. Similar to the story of Mendy Hassan, Edo Sheri, all these people. Totally. Nobody knew what happened and when they went. And they're all Padma Sheri's and Padma Vibhushan's and you know, yeah, very true. That is really true. So Siddharth, you see, you've been doing, you've been working so closely with music for so many years. And so how do you see this trend changing with the music and musicians? Mendy, it's been a long journey. You know, it started, I mean, of course, music has always been there. But I'm talking about the whole evolution and the whole, I'll say revolution which is, which we are seeing today, you know, in music is thanks to a lot of stuff which happened in the early 90s, you know, a lot of credit goes to MTV coming in in India, you know, channel V at that point of time, you know, starting music videos and stuff from India got into this thing of, oh, there are, there are music videos available to watch apart from those movie songs. So, you know, the whole ball, I mean, of course, Bollywood has been predominantly dominating the music scene in our country. I'm talking about popular music per se. And so, but this whole evolution of independent artists coming in and a lot of new music happening in the early 90s and 2000, actually we saw, I mean, pandemic has been a big boost to a whole independent music scene in our country. And it has evolved and revolutionized like nobody's business. $1.2 billion is an estimated figure of what independent music has made during the pandemic. You know, 500 million users consuming music today over internet, such, I mean, thanks to Geos of the world of, you know, of getting, you know, the whole music streaming business is actually the next pivot which we should be talking about, you know, which is, which is revolutionizing the entire industry. And yeah, I mean, you could be anyone, you could be singing anything. The divide of genres, the divide of, you know, the whole, you know, legacy of wherever you're coming from has broken big time. You know, today, if you have it in you, if you can write like nice lyrics, if you can have some great tune, if you can have some great, you know, poetry or anything or any expression which could be musical, I think we're living in, I mean, time has come that golden age of music in India has arrived. And it's going to be big time now because the global giants are here, you have the Spotify and YouTube music, they are really, I mean, there's a whole more going on in terms of digital, you know, space distribution. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we have, we've been blessed with the number game, you know, we have 1.2 billion people. We are the consumers, which is one of the largest 2027, we will cross China. So we would be the largest consumer economy. Imagine, and I mean, there's immense hope, I mean, even the streaming piece, you see, right now, the premium segment, whoever is subscribing to premium is around 1% odd. This will increase phenomenally because you will start choosing, you would be, you want to go ad free, you want to go, you want to download your music, you want, so eventually this will all help the musicians get the revenue, eventually this will, and this whole, this whole, this whole thing of streaming is bringing a whole lot of transparency, you know, in terms of, you know, who's consuming what, who's actually listening to your music and, you know, and, you know, somewhere, I feel it's one of the best times to be musicians in the country. And next five years is going to be I mean, this is going to be, this is going to be a very different economy altogether, the music, music economy. Yeah, things have taken up, the pandemic is definitely helped, especially the independent artists, because you know, I think during the pandemic itself, the social media was always a support system earlier, but social media has taken off during, because that was our only resource, right? That's the only thing that everybody went to as a, you know, so that was the only path forward. And I think where so many YouTube stars have come up, and you know, the other good thing, I mean, that you must have noticed as well is that earlier, like we used to say, okay, the artists go to a studio, they record a song, the voices get auto-tuned, and you know, they're kind of melodigned and all that kind of stuff, but when you're performing on social media, there's no melodining and auto-tuning. So it is what you are. And I think that has helped create some very good artists. So people have actually spent time practicing, rehearsing so that they could sing better on their, on their Instagrams and on their YouTube's and then put out songs, they learned how to create music at home, they learned how to digitize their content and put it out. And I think, yeah, you're right, I mean, the pandemic has helped us decode our next step forward. Mostly thanks to, thanks to not much Bollywood coming under that duration also. If you had to hear new music, it was coming out of independent artists. The Spotify, Redar, India, that particular streaming channel has been viewed so much and thousands and thousands of musicians which have come up, come up big because of that. And there's a whole, and it's easy, you just record and you're out there, tomorrow you're just releasing your music at the digital platform. So it's become so easy because going through publishing and recording labels was always a tedious affair. It's a process. It's a process that's happening that you're chosen one or you're not. So again, the whole independence, it's a real independent scene happening right now. And I'm so glad that we are living in this time that today, any musician who wants to, who has it in him can become a start tomorrow. I mean, you know, nobody was going the path of covers, if you notice. It wasn't that you just had to see a single chapter just to become a famous person. It wasn't that they were singing their own song. In fact, Hangama, I remember when Sharmini was working on this project and they came up with this thing of independent musicians to promote them in the setup that app, they tied up with Big FM. And I often make it a point to hear that program because it is independent artists and they've actually managed to get them a platform on the radio. So, you know, it's like a natural thing. People are going to listen to it. And so I feel the radio channels do kind of need to give us space for independent musicians and not just play, you know, only Bollywood stuff. As much as I totally respect Bollywood, I have nothing against Bollywood, of course. You see that they're also in radio channels also. People are doing it. See, this is going to become mainstream like nobody's business. I'm telling you, five years down the line, everyone will be, I mean, the bigger stars themselves will say, I mean, there are so many bigger stars which are claiming that I'm an independent musician. You know, I'm an independent musician. Correct. Yeah, you're right. I just explained that 50% of the music which is now playing on PDC Music Channel is created by individual artists. And the biggest success story, I'll say this is the I completely agree with Siddharth because the artists learn that they don't need the big studios, all the musicians sitting together and then making music. Now I can do my audio at my home studio, send the track to the music director who will then get a guitarist from maybe London and he'll get a flottist from Spain or Tabla player from Jalandhar and then they will collaborate send their own tracks and it will all be mixed. And now suddenly you're sitting at home and here you have a brilliantly mixed track. I mean, I did this experiment at home, my wife is a singer. So she would record her audio, then the flottist was in Jalandhar, the Tabla player was in Mohali and the guitar, my son plays guitar, he was in Oxford. And then he was mixing the sound in London there and sending the track back on which we were then creating the music video and then the song was out and everybody is being together and you have suddenly you don't need an air manager to notice you, you don't need to go out and give your samples or plead with people to record them or release them or spend your own money and create stuff. And if you don't have money, then you are actually selling something and in the past this used to happen that you're doing some job and in the free time you're creating some sort of music as a hobby. Now suddenly you can reach millions, you're creating music at home, collaborating with the best of the talent, creating those tracks, creating those videos and suddenly they're out there. The mushroom cloud I would say of the music that burst during Corona is now engulfing everyone and suddenly the opportunity are there and people are getting noticed. Careers are being made, people are making living out of creating music on their own, which was unheard of earlier. It's happening now. So in the artist's collaboration, exactly like you said, it was fantastic because I know so many artists, there's a bass guitarist here and she's collaborating with the flottis somewhere else. There's another singer here, she's collaborating with the rapper across the world. So at the end of the day, they're putting together a video and they're presenting, you would actually think they're sitting, standing together in the same studio and doing it. So that is where I think digital technology has kind of really taken off. All this would not have happened. Honestly, the way I look at it, none of this would have happened, at least for a while, just the way it has taken off. So the minds opened up and this can be made like this. If you didn't have cheap internet available in our country, this was not possible. This was not possible. And now with 5G coming in and all that, you will see this going in a very different direction. This whole thing of issues which we saw in live jamming virtually, the whole lag and this will also get sorted out from 5G. You will see real live collaborations happening virtually and this is going to change. And like I said, I'm very bullish about where we are and where this industry is today and so much young talent coming in and expressing themselves and making a career out of themselves. It's amazing and they're making global careers. Look at Prateek Kohar. He's a global star today. I mean, I'm just naming him. Coming out of small town like Jaipur and he's becoming a global icon. He's doing 100% sold out shows in US, UK, wherever he's performing. And these kinds of musicians, you used to only hear in music festivals earlier, right? Used to be dedicated music festivals, which are very and that's where you are to sample them. But things have changed today. Things have completely changed today. They have a fan following like in a big way and yeah, I mean, it's great times to be. You know, in fact, at the beginning of the pandemic, we started a series called Inconversation and that time exactly like you said, the internet wasn't that great. So there were challenges trying to get the artist to perform live, etc. So we did try to record they would specially record for the because we never believed in going the YouTube way because that everybody has access to. But you know, while you're talking also, internet used to be a challenge. But you know, we did this show with Nathu Ji, Nathilaal Sri Lankan from Pushkar and he is the Nagara Maestro, right? Now, the difference over here was that he, you know, the people when we put that show out, when we were doing the live show, the people who joined his audience, his students, his fan following, Brazil, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and we were like, oh my God, you know, and we had decided, you know, we had this absolutely, we had decided to ticket those Inconversations particularly because we wanted to see a dedicated audience. We didn't want random, of course, I mean, you know, when you especially when you're interviewing people where there's the genre of the music is the hero, right? So we kept a minuscule figure of 100 rupees for Indians. And I think it was whatever, some few euros and dollars for the international joinees. And people bought tickets like how in fact, we had more international revenue than Indian revenue for that particular show. And I think his show had the largest audience. And it was amazing. So this is just trying to save the beach. Now, Nathu Ji is from a small town of Pushkar, but look at this global following and he's a simple man, very simple man, humble to the core, but look at his global following. So it's exactly the same thing how technology has helped. And by the way, now back to, we are decoding the next pivot, right? So that is where technology has come in helping the younger artists grow. What about these older ones? They never had any technology. When Nathu Ji became a spread globally, there was no technology. There was no social media that took him there, right? So obviously there were people behind his fan following, his lovers who took him out. So that's what it is. Even the experienced artists are evolving, they understand the whole thing that this is what they have to adapt to. And it's good and I feel as, I mean, as experienced musicians you are more evolved, as much evolved to take newer things. And I'm sure a lot of them are releasing digital music, streaming in various platforms. So it's great. It's great to have music. So, Mr. Narayan, back to you. So tell us about like you've obviously been receiving a lot of music from younger artists. In fact, I would really be happy if you can share your email ID online, because you know, I remember some artists reached out to that point of time. They're Bengali artists and they're artists from all over the country. Well, so they were experimenting with Punjabi music and they actually created some very good Punjabi music. So at that point of time, I thought, you know, it would be ideal to connect them with you, where not only could you give them a platform for visibility, but you could also guide them on, you know, what was like, whether they were doing it right or whether, you know, what were the kind of things that they could bring into their music. And because I thought the fact that a Bengali artist experimenting with Punjabi music that itself I thought was a win-win. No, it is an interesting thing. My video director and music director here in PTC is an Asami's guy. Oh, so see now, look at this. And we create fantastic Punjabi music with them. And the key for us, the biggest happiness that you got was people who could not afford it, but were immensely talented. Now, at 3.30, we are doing a concert with such artists who earlier were unknown. Now, they are coming into our studios. We're recording them. We're making them perform live to the worldwide audience. And when it is broadcast, it goes to the US, it goes to Canada, it goes to Australia, Middle East, Europe, it goes everywhere. And suddenly they are following all over the world. And once they become popular here, that's when they start getting shows. The money for an artist is not in making music and releasing it online or portals or streaming platform. The money for them is shows. The most troubled time for them was pandemic when there were no shows happening. But that's when they learned the technique, the technology, they adapted, they created music. Now the music is coming out. Now they're getting the shows and the world has opened up. Suddenly artists like Anu Amanath or suddenly like Jee Saab and all, they're getting shows in Canada, they're getting shows in Europe. That's because of the visibility that you are giving them. Not only us, the visibility right now is in their own hands. They can create the music, create the video, put it on social media and other platforms. And then the world is watching them. We are a medium. We are one of the mediums and we give them a platform worldwide. We have a record label, we have a recording company, we have a publishing company, we have a television channel, we have Facebook, YouTube and an audio platform. So it's a one-stop shop for them. So once they come here, they put their stuff here and there's no money involved for them. We do it. For me, it's software which is coming to me. For them, it's their break, the much needed break which we would never get without money. So we have our own studios, we shoot them, record them, create it and then we put them out in the world. Then it's up to their talent. If they're good, they'll get popular, they'll make good money, they will get shows and then we feel good about it. Kaur, V, Ranjit Bawa, Nimrat Khera, Tanishk, all these artists are those who came to our music contest, Vaisapunjab, Vaisapunjab, Chota Champ or the Vaisapunjab seniors. And they emerged out of it and today they're big stars. And that's why you could give them their launch platform. An artist only needs a launch platform now and then their job is done. It's talented, they're sure to get noticed and they'll get work. And that's what is happening. The most important word is what you just said is talented and how good they are with their music. See, it's not just that I've done like one year of free hours, etc. And I'm ready to get on to the stage. You will last for this much and no more. So I think at the bottom line is that also that they need to be well-practiced because they'll become like a one-song wonder then. That's it after that they won't grow. So that's very important for their growth as well. So exactly like we said, digitally you're decoding the next pivot but also for your own growth, you need to be consistent with your practice, you need to be consistent with your music, you need to be sincere about it. Passion is one part which need to be sincere about it otherwise you will end up getting a break, you'll end up doing those one or two songs and after that watch. If you have to grow you have to be sincere about it. Yes, absolutely. So may I request you to share like your email idea, some kind of contact information which we can share over here with the listeners because I know there are many who would like to reach out to you. So at least they know that fine. We don't have to go through showcase. So we don't have to go through loudest. We have Mr. Nara and directly up for us and we can reach out to him. It's very simple. R N, R for Russia and for Nagpur at ptcnetwork.com. I'm also available on Facebook, on Twitter or LinkedIn, Instagram. You can direct message me anywhere and I'm going to put it to my relevant teams and then they take over. Perfect. Super. So I hope everybody's heard the email ID. I'm going to repeat that. It's R N at the rate ptcnetwork.com. So it's really not difficult and they are on all the social media handles as well. So you can reach them directly. In fact, that's what everybody's doing nowadays is I've reached out to so many artists like that, sending them on Instagram and finding them to Facebook and saying, I need to talk to you. So it's interesting and everybody responds. I mean, that's the good part now. I think that way social media has made the world closer, has brought the world closer as well. So Siddharth, on to you. Like you've also been promoting a lot of young talent, etc. And so just tell us a little bit about your experience and how do you think, I mean, do you see other than the fact that of course there is a growth industry and there is fortifies and all these that have come into the country. There's their distribution channels, their publishing houses, their labels, everything is there. But I want to hear about from you about the talent that is there. So I mean, I'm not saying that they're going to evaluate or judge any talent, but do you feel that there is sincerity? Do you feel this potential for growth if they, because they have to focus? It's not just about, you know, the other thing that I want you guys to bring up very importantly is that right now the way I'm noticing is that every artist, the moment they release a song, the first thing they do is I got 1 million likes. How important is that? Isn't it more important to give a good quality product? Your likes will automatically happen. So I want you guys to talk about this because this really gets my go at it. Let me give you an insight. The trouble is, like the television industry, which is in the midst of this TRP game, the music industry has also got stuck in the game of likes and views. The YouTube actually did this and everybody now it's become the Bible. How many views on YouTube? And you've seen the biggest of the names buying likes or buying numbers. I know they're popular. Yeah, I know they've done that. And unfortunately, the quality took a backseat because they never made it. I have to take so many likes. Shows me. You know, I need 25,000 likes. I mean, I'm shocked. Look, it's a whole industry in itself. It is millions these days. It's not how many likes in million in a day. That's where the whole thing is. It was thousands and it became million and now it's how many 100 million or 500 million? It's a complete revenue industry over there, separate revenue industry altogether, isn't it? They don't realize that that amount of money they could have put into their music or put it under a show. That amount is going to just platforms who are minting money on this psychology that they need to have views because when I go for a show, the man will not know my name. He will see how many views does he have? How many followers does he have? And unfortunately, that's a bad thing that's happening. And slowly, I'm sure, very slowly, the filtration will happen. The real talent will stand out. Then the likes and numbers and views will not matter. The talent will matter. I have a little contraining view to this. I think this is a part and parcel of the whole game. And trust me, it works for some people to see how many million views someone or how many views someone has got to kind of here to what's trending, that trending thing. So if it works, it works. I mean, who are we to debate on it, on the quality and all that, which is okay. I mean, if you're one has to go into the morality of you buying those things, and that's another debate because, yeah, I mean, one should feel that it should be organic. But hey, people are doing this. But like I said, it's going to be, you'll always have the goods and the bads coming together of any kind of, I would rather focus on the goods. And it's so much better for anyone to get noticed today for being a musician. And again, the following and the likes would always be accordingly. I mean, if you are a Barsha fan, you are a Barsha fan. I mean, whatever he brings out tomorrow, anything which he brings out tomorrow would be watched and watched by millions. And it's debatable. The quality of music is very debatable. It might not sound good to you. It might sound great. Exactly. That's a subjective thing. So I feel these are part and parcel of the whole digital phenomena. And I think it's that the audience eventually will mature and would understand that, okay, this is and now people know, right? People know that, oh, this guy also buys likes. It's all there. Till the time the music doesn't groove you, I mean, bottom line till the time the music doesn't groove you and doesn't move you, it doesn't matter whatever the other person is doing. But when it does, it does, right? It touches you and somewhere it moves you. And it could be anything. And again, I don't think so. We are here to judge the quality of music. No, but you know what it's also become like in the current day time. It's become like a chicken and egg situation. When you propose an artist to a corporate, you know, when they ask you the first thing they go and see is how many users this person have or how many likes. And then they tell me this is not that great area. So how do you create a person? You know, I mean, look at the following this guy has, he said he can't sing a Sa street. This person can sing up till like Dhani, Moka to those go. So that is it. So like I'm saying that there's nothing wrong and there's nothing right. Like, I mean, be a nobody to judge and nobody's anybody to judge anyway, there's nothing with us. There isn't a wrong in this isn't the right. You've got to survive. It's about survival and it's about bringing forward the best both. But yes, I have to say that exactly like it's another and said a lot of good music has unfortunately gotten a back seat because you know, everything is coming out and being judged on the basis of likes and views where we feel that the audience needs to be and the people need to be a little bit more liberal and more exploratory when it comes to this because I think the other artists need to be given a chance just because the flip side is there is a lot of money power comes in. We all know what is happening in Punjabi music industry with the money power comes in the gangsters and the show is a show that's happening in Punjabi. That's the saddest aspect of creating music. The music is now being engulfed in the money power. Those who have money will rule the roost and that's it. That's not music. That's not music. Music is way beyond all this and unfortunately, you know this is a commercial. This is the evil part that's exploiting the such a pure and such a pious art form and I think that's like that's really not acceptable. So what happens is I'll tell you what happens to the poor musician when they go to an agent, he says, you won't get shows if you don't have money. Then he says, I will invest but sign a contract 80% of your money is going to come to me for three years. You'll get only 20% and that's what is happening to the industry today. They walk off with that 80% because they're investing that money into buying likes, not into creating music, not into helping the artist to create. Artist has to spend to create music. After that, he goes to an agent boss, make it popular, take it to people. That's when they invest. That's when the money power comes in. That's when they have to recoup their investment and that's when this underworld gangsters and all this comes in. A whole new industry kind of setup. So that's a sad part. I just want to ask Ojasvi, Preeti and Pishar, Ruhi, Alba, Shamid and Sapir joining or should we continue because I mean there's three more things that I'm thinking of and so one of you can just help us with that. Ojasvi, Preeti. Okay, something, I don't know if Sapir would have been here. He would have tales to tell you of the journey that he's been. That's what I would have loved to hear and even Shamid, Shamid has been there like ever since till today and he has actually seen the evolution of the industry. So for decoding the next pivot he would have been absolutely the apt person to come in. So Preeti, sorry you joined in for a second but are the two joining in? Are the two panellists joining in? Would you know? Yes, are the two panellists joining in? Yeah, I'm trying to see do we have Subbhi joining us. No, they're not here right now but if you can just check back. Actually, they are having a bad network. Subbhi is in Dubai so he's having a very bad network. So he won't be joining today. Okay and Shamid, Shamid is also in Dubai or he's in Bombay? Yeah, he's not available. Okay, so it's the new one of the three. Okay, fine. Thank you so much. So back to us guys. So tell me one more thing now. We come back to now let's pick up the actual subject right now, decoding the next pivot. So given where we are today, we are in 2022 where the music industry has given the COVID and we've all heard the pros and the cons of COVID etc. We've all been doing it for the last two years and talking about it and the challenges that we face. But of course, given the positive that it's made us, it's brought in technology and taken us to the next space altogether. And from the time when we started to today, it's only growing. Every day we are blasted with something new like I reached a point when I say I've learned the TEC, I can't do it anymore. Like at my age, I'm done. I'm exhausted now. But every day there's a new thing coming in. And so where do you see the industry? I won't even say in the next five years or 10 years, that's too far a time with the way things have been evolving and changing. Where do you see the industry in the next one year? We are now in 2022 June 2022. Where do you see it by the next World Music Day June 2023? First over to Mr. Narayan. See the biggest change that I see is it's the death of music companies, music labels, and maybe music television channels. The artist has the power in their own hands now. They can create music, they can publish music, they can distribute music, and they can earn their own money directly. There are middlemen which are going to go away. The streaming platforms, the digital platforms, they'll be in the forefront. Even the FM radios, the television channels where there was appointment viewing, you come at a certain time to listen, whosoever is available at that time is the star. It's gone. Now I'm searching for my kind of music, the kind of mood I'm in, the kind of artist I'm into. I'll search for them, gana.com, YouTube music, any platform, streaming platforms, Spotify, there are 170 such platforms. I'll go to my platform. I'll get my music there. So I know that if I'm an artist, I'm a good artist, and I can spend a little bit on distributing to make my reach wider, I'll get the audience. Once I have the audience, that audience will have a web effect. It will get me more audience and my network will wall. I will start getting queries. I will start getting shows and I will start getting money. So the biggest revolution in the next one year you will see is every artist will have their own music label, their own publishing, their own copyright, their own making money, their own booking paraffelinia and platforms like Facebook paid events will be in the forefront where I can sell my own tickets. I don't even need an agent on my Facebook page. I will just make tickets available, appointment viewing, six o'clock on Saturday. I have a concert on. Guys, you want to see me? Go on. Come on. You want to learn music from me? You want to collaborate with me? We're all available digitally. So the international collaborations, individual artists making music on their own, that will be the key thing for the future and the shows will be smaller as well as bigger. Both kinds of shows are going to work now for artists. A smaller audience in a, in a, let's say, amphitheater setting, a bigger audience in a arena setting, everything is going to work. You create music, it'll work. And most of all, the artists are going to get shows. The moment you start getting shows, you're making money. The industrial stripe, they will thrive. That is true. Siddharth, what is your thought on this? I kind of agree with Rabindran. I feel it is evolving by ours, Nani. The thing is really evolving by ours. And I think in next one year, you never know, you might see a Despacito coming out of India. You might see a global single coming out of India, which becomes like a big thing. And I must tell you, you will see a huge amount of regional music researching that. You know, the South Indian music. Look at what South Indian movies are doing. Fantastic. You know, so the whole regional content and which includes regional music is something to look forward to and their time has come, their time has arrived. You know, in terms of, you know, they, I mean, the whole, they've always struggled in this whole scenario. So that aspect would be something to watch out for. And like it was rightly mentioned by all of us before that, you know, platform is not no more a struggle anymore. You know, platform is no more a struggle anymore. And, you know, tomorrow, if you made something nice, it just goes viral. And by the way, we're not even discussing and talking about Metaverse. Oh, yes, that was my next thing I was going to come to. What will happen there? The whole collaboration of, you know, amazing visuals and animations and, you know, your avatar singing there out there for you. Your NFTs out there. That's what I want you guys to talk about. That was my next thing I was coming to. That's another thing that happened and, you know, which will, and there would be a whole sync of Metaverse with live telecast and, you know, if, you know, sporting event, you have some artists coming and performing and you have some, you know, so I mean, this is going to be crazy from here on. And VR concerts, VR concerts have in any case started earlier. Yes, it's going to be a reality within Mons in India. Absolutely, because, you know, with the headsets available and now the variety of headsets earlier, it was Oculus only and you just had that one piece. But now with, of course, cardboard was never really the best quality that you could get. But I mean, it is there. So it's not that, you know, there was a restriction to it or limitation because you did not have the Oculus device. But basically, the web VR has gone beyond being device specific. So, you know, it's kind of, it's again, bringing the industry as I want to hear about the LFT. We have great success with the VR. We are now broadcasting 100% live from Golden Temple. The Guruvani is sung there, available in virtual reality 360 degrees and we thought there'll be a few hundred people who'll see it. It's thousands of people watching it on YouTube and on our app and on YouTube. So it's broadcast real time live 360 degree VR. So after that success, we thought, let's do a concert. So we did a virtual concert concert where one artist was performing from Amritsar, one was performing from Mughali, one from Delhi. Now we are converging it into VR. The artist performing in a virtual reality kind of settings and the audience will be in a virtual arena where your mind and body will say that you are sitting in a ticketed seat where you bought the place and you're seeing it from there. So that's where it's headed. Siddharth, your experience on the VR part? You know, when the pandemic hit us, remember the game Fortnite was launched. Fortnite was, of course, the biggest rage amongst the youth and billions of kids were hooked to it. And Travis Scott launched his track at that moment, that game, when the game was launched. You know, we're going towards that. The entire e-gaming industry is really moving in a big speed again. That's another... It's been viral. Gaming industry went crazy. So gaming and music has a huge scope of integrating. So I beg to differ there. Future might not be just about live shows. In future, it's all about integration and finding your platforms and multi-platforms. Even when you stream today and when you have so many subscribers or whatever, you get that kind of revenue coming from digital platforms. So even while the artist is sitting at home and not doing shows, he's making his money today. He has that kind of followership. He's getting those kind of subscribers and people are listening to him. So I mean, the whole game is going to be changed. I mean, yes, there's nothing replacing live industry. It will always be there. It's not that it's going anywhere. And this will only thrive further. Live businesses are going to even thrive further because of this whole multi-dimensional availability of content, which becomes great for exposures and which becomes great for you seeing out there. So it's going to be phenomenal times ahead. Going in that direction is working on the direction. We'll have the first movers advantage. We'll be able to create that cult which follows them, which is very different. And youth today is consuming entertainment in a lot different way. We have to do, absolutely. And also, I get asked this question very often since you guys specialize in virtual events and are they here to stay? And I say, absolutely. First of all, they're not going anywhere and now everything is hybrid because of the advantage we have seen with hybrid. Life has its own energy. Nothing can replace life that we're not even contesting. But yes, definitely bringing in the virtual aspect to the life, creating a hybrid environment. You know the outreach is so much better. Time is saved economically. It's more vibrant. Like we've been doing conferences, for example, or we've got artists and speakers joining in from across the world. You're not spending that much time for a half an hour session or for a half an hour performance to come across the globe and then go back and look at the kind of money involved. So of course, I mean, life has like, I always maintain that it has its own energy, but the outreach is definitely better with technology. So tell me one thing. Of course, I'm zero when it comes to understanding NFTs and blockchain and the Bitcoin, etc. Right. I don't I just know these words. I have no idea what they mean. So I'd be delighted to have y'all and I'm sure in the audience today, there are many like me who are struggling trying to understand, but we want to keep up with the NFTs. So what exactly is it? And what does it mean for the music industry? Because basically, that is where it's all headed. So what does it mean for an artist and how should they reach out to the NFTs space to put out their music so that it gets bought? And what does it mean when somebody buys your music or buys a song? What does it mean for the artist? So, Siddharth, why don't you take this first? Yeah, so like I said, you know, the metaverse is taking over and I feel people will have their own avatars doing a whole lot of stuff in that space. People, fans are buying moments, fans are buying fans are buying, you know, what all I mean, fans are buying anything which is coming out there in NFT and you'll have like I said about Fortnite. Now, Fortnite success has been its online concerts. It has a huge success rate. They've had Jay Baldwin, they have Ariana Grande playing, they've had many artists, they have Lin-Nas performing, they've had huge amount of success which they saw in these online concerts which have happened in a game format. So, so there's going to be a collaboration of whole lot of animation and music coming together and that's something which I feel is the future. I feel Indian industry should really look at, I've not seen anyone working on that in India very faculty till now. So, there are a few, there are a few artists that have put up their music as an NFT but I just want to understand maybe like, you know, Ms. Narayan, you can help us with this. Yes, there's a practical artist. If I'm an artist, how does it benefit me? Now, to create music, I need funding. Either invest, I'll borrow, I'll go to a label or ask someone to fund. I need to shoot a 30 lakh exotic video and I need to record collaborating with the best of the international talent and it'll cost me 10 lakh rupees. So, overall, I need about 40 odd lakh rupees to create a masterpiece which would be no less than anybody. Now, I don't have that money. What I can do is I will appeal to people that I'm going to create this and you can own a portion of it. So, they fund you. They'll give you money. Yes, go ahead. I'm your fan. I'm putting in this money to own this thing that you're creating and when it gets released, the royalties or the income that comes from it, from across the globe, you also get a part of it. So, if I invested 1 rupee, my 1 rupee might get me 1.5 rupees back because forever, as long as the asset will remain digitally active in the metaverse or in the digital platforms, it'll keep on earning money and the money will keep on accruing to me, not just to the artist, but to everybody else who invested in that artist. So, that's the practical aspect of it that it's like investing in a company and then in the shares of that company and then making money from it. Plus, I'm the top star artist and I've created something and I'm not putting it in the market that, hey, you can also go on this creation. You can have rights. You can have sync rights of it. You can have, I would say, dubbing rights or language rights of music I've created and they're available to you. You pay in my digital currency and you can have this right and record. Now, I have to record a cover version. I need to go and ask for permissions. I don't know where to go and ask. Now, I can take it digitally, from the artist directly. I can invest in the product also. I go on it also. So, whole lot of investments, whole lot of earnings, whole lot of collaborations and whole lot of owning the creation comes into the playwright. So, the artist doesn't really lose all soul rights to the song that they have created. They just get co-owners. So, they have just more stakeholders to that particular song and then as a result of it, everybody tends to gain in terms of revenue. As an artist, if I don't have money, why would I mind that people are investing? Investing in me and they are making money also from it. I'm making my money. They're making their money. Correct. So, which is a fair deal. So, as somebody who can advise us to be artist, maybe it's a good idea to put up your songs as NFTs, right? Or your music out as music videos as NFTs. Good idea. More than they're selling song, I think that's I mean, it's the moment which they sell. It's something which, you know, a lot of merchandise and a lot of virtual merchandise and a lot of artwork around you and a lot of which is going well and which is really going crazy. But you never would have imagined what your one poster can fetch you when someone is buying it at the NFTs space. So, that's the area which wherein you're seeing a whole lot of new fans coming in and you of course have to be back with a great, it's a collaborative time with other art forms actually. If you're a musician, you have to have a great graphic designer teaming you. You have to have a great animation artist backing you and you guys can do wonders as a team together. And that's one area of collaboration which should really evolve in times to come. That's wonderful. So, I think we've ended up giving some very, very good important takeaways for the musicians and artists of today and not just the artists of today, even of the yesterday years to just kind of, you know, pick themselves up and get into the digital space because eventually that is the path forward. And true to our session where we said decoding the next pivot, which is really, it's all heading into that direction. So, of course not foregoing the fact that, you know, like space will always still have its prominence. But yes, now it will be complemented a lot with the digital space because that will help a lot more to grow. So, thank you very much gentlemen. I know that we were just the three of us but we managed to pull up a session for one hour. I don't know if we bored our audiences or not, but I enjoyed every moment of it because I think it was a lot of learning for me in all of this. So, thank you, Ms. Imran and thank you, Siddharth, for being with us today and I hand it over to Preeti. Thank you so much. Thank you everyone for such a wonderful session. Thank you, Nani, for hosting this for all the questions and for the sharing. Well, ladies and gentlemen, our lovely audience. I hope you enjoyed this session. We started off with speaking to some lovely women in the industry and then we had these really powerful people who transformed the music industry and now we know where we headed, what's coming up next in the world of music. Today is World Music Day and there's a lot happening around and I got to know there are three concerts all around and this is a day where you should try out different types of music. Listen to something new or make a post on social media about music, about what you like. Let's celebrate this day. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us. This is Preeti Katpa, your host. I'm from Mumbai, the city of dreams and saying goodbye to you. I hope to see you soon. Enjoy World Music Day.