 And so I'm just going to see if we can wait for Mr. Vernon Jones and Miss Farera to step in before we actually start. Okay, I'm shutting my camera off and my, my, I'm muting myself because I'm going to watch this is until everybody else. It's just 702. Excuse me, I signed in a little late, are we waiting for something. We were trying to wait for you and Miss Farera to return. Yep. We should start. We can start. I think we should start. Okay. So good evening everyone and welcome to the community safety working group public form on crest the community responder for equity and social services program. My name is Jennifer moisten I will be your host today and for those who did not know me I am the staff liaison for the community safety working group. As usual I have a few beer bureaucratic issues to go over but first the co chairs of the CSWG will read the statement of indigenous heritage of the land and the acknowledgement of the contribution of African Americans written by community member Lauren Mills. You're muted Alicia. Thank you. Hi, everyone. We humbly acknowledge that we stand on nanotuck land, acknowledging also our neighboring indigenous nations, the Nipmuc and the Wampanoag to the east, the Mohegan and Pequot to the south, the Mohegan to the west, and the Abenaki to the north. We first recognizes the generations of African Americans that have contributed to the development of agriculture and historical academic preservation from the past to the present. We also recognize the rich spiritual culture, culture, artistic contribution and pursuits of justice that have enriched the communities in which African Americans have lived, worked, persevered and achieved. And thank you all so much for joining us. We are holding this forum to open up dialogue with the community and be transparent about the process in developing the Crest program. We thank you so much for helping inform and guide our work. And without further ado, we'd like to get into a slideshow to talk about the work we have been doing and where we are headed. Can I just bring us back a moment though to go over the rules I'm so sorry. Oh no it's okay. Yeah, so as usually the bureaucratic issues of community forum. So our public is aware. We are all here for the common good and the shared success of our community. The CSWG is trying to create an environment where honesty, openness and trust are the norm. So we are asking everyone in the audience, our panelists and our attendees to a that confidentiality is a must. We would ask that you say it here share your thoughts and lean into your discomfort be willing to challenge yourself. We're asking for compassionate listening, respect and speak from your own experience and no judgments and no shaming. This is a zoom meeting only the panelists and community member speaking will be seen there was no community chat function unfortunately prevent please prevent background noise to keep yourself muted to mute click on the microphone on the lower left side of your screen, or star six on your phone to raise your hand if you wish to share your experience or ideas. Click on the participants at the bottom of your screen choose the race hand icon or star nine on your telephone. I now would like to introduce the before I introduced the community safety working group. I just think the last we just came out of our regular community safety working group meeting and it was a little bit deep and we're going to have some deep discussion today. So as always as a product of my environment, we will take a deep breath and close our eyes at the sound of the singing bowl. Let it all out. Inhale, sit up tall and exhale and just feel your body and your muscles relax for a few moments. It's amazing what a deep breath can do. Okay, so now I would like to introduce the community safety working group members so they can go on with their forum. So, Brianna Owen is our co chair, Alicia Walker our co chair to Sheena Bowman member, Darius cage who's not here unfortunately today, Deborah Ferrera pat on a Baku and Russ Vernon Jones. Miss moisten are we free to take over now. I'm done hijacking your form. Go ahead. Thank you. Okay, can we. I'm sorry I did the introduction, a little bit early before Miss moisten was done. So I just want to welcome you all and thank you all for joining us again today that we would like to open this forum up to the community for a dialogue and to be transparent about the process and developing the Crest program. So I would like to share a brief slideshow that we have with you all. Miss moisten, would you be able to pull up the PowerPoint. Sure, just one moment. And can you see the PowerPoint now as opposed to a million icons on my screen. Okay, perfect. Brianna, do you can, well, you can just tell me when you need me to scroll please. Okay, yes. Can we do we have membership on the first slide. Sorry, Miss moisten you're muted. Okay, thank you. So I have the first thing we'd like to report is the membership of the implementation team. We are currently a five member team, including myself as the co chair of the CSWG Brianna also co chair of the CSWG. I'm going to turn in Jones who is a CSWG member in here today. Jennifer moisten staff liaison to the CSWG who is also here today. Scott Livingstone chief of police and Tim Nelson chief of fire. I would like to acknowledge briefly that across the country many municipalities are finding alternative ways to provide safety services in situations that do not require a police officer. Some have existed for a long time, and some are new in response to the demands for change that arose after George George Floyd's murder at the hands of the police. The mission of the Crest program will be to contribute to dismantling systemic racism through racially aware safety and social services to people of all races with a conscious anti racist focus. Miss moisten. Oh, perfect. As members of the community may know the town of Amherst has applied for the Harvard Kennedy government performance performance lab alternative 911 emergency technical assistance, although we did not get to be a part of this. Partly partly in the fact that we were competing against larger cities and applying, but we are able to participate in the alternative 911 emergency response community of practice, which will allow us to participate in conversations with other towns and cities in Massachusetts that are working on developing alternative safety. We have not yet engaged in this dialogue. Alongside the Harvard Kennedy government performance lab alternative 911 emergency technical assistance cohort. We also did apply for the equitable approaches to public safety grant. This grant is from the executive office of Health and Human Services at the Department of Public Health. This grant required us to find a mental health agency to partner with and also similarly to the recommendations that the CSWG put forth in our recommendations for part a suggested not suggested how does put together a project manager role. This project manager role is similar to what the CSWG envisioned as the assistant director of Crests. Through the implementation team, we identified a mental health association that we would like to partner with if we receive the grant. And if we do not receive the grant we still would like to partner with this organization. The organization that we are interested in pairing and partnering with for this grant is the African diaspora mental health association ADMHA. The African diaspora is the term that is used to refer to the mass dispersion of peoples from Africa from Africa during the transatlantic slave trades that occurred from the 1500s to the 1800s. The African diaspora refers to the communities all over the world who are descended from this historic movement of people from Africa to the Americas, the Caribbean, Europe, Middle East, the Middle East, and Asia, among other areas across the country. Currently located in Springfield mass, the ADMHA is an outpatient mental health clinic registered and licensed in the state of Massachusetts. The ADMHA was founded in September of 2012 to provide mental health and healthcare services to all people in the greater Springfield and surrounding areas. Their goal is to promote social, emotional, economic behavioral health and to establish long standing resources for children, adult and families of all people with special emphasis on the African diaspora. Regardless of if we get this grant, the implementation team believes that we should still find a way to invite the ADMHA to the Amherst community. Outside of grants, the implementation team has been working on job descriptions for the Crest Director and Project Manager. The Crest Director will work with the implementation team once hired. Prior to the hiring of LEAP, the implementation team members worked together to format a job description for the Crest Director and Project Manager. That description is going through the municipal rating system now. We will have more updates on the job description in coming weeks and hope to work with LEAP in developing all job descriptions for Crest. LEAP stands for Law Enforcement Action Partnership and their mission is to unite and mobilize the voice of law enforcement in support of drug policy and criminal justice reforms that will make communities safer by focusing law enforcement resources on the greatest threats to public safety, promoting alternatives to arrested incarceration, addressing the root causes of crime and working towards healing police community relations. They have been hired by the town to help analyze calls to see what safety service calls could be diverted to Crest to helping with the hiring resources and training that may be needed for Crest employees and provide insight to technical questions on areas such as dispatch, handling controlled substances and transportation. Now that LEAP is officially contracted by the town included in their scope of work is helping us write job descriptions for the Crest Project Manager and responders. For each they will provide for us a sample position description, hiring criteria resources and selection input, and recommended community responder training and supplies. Okay, what is next? The next task the implementation team will work on is working with LEAP to determine what skill sets will be needed for Crest responders and receiving job descriptions from LEAP. Launching the Crest Director position and adding them to our team to create the Department of Crests. Starting job description, starting job search for Crest responders, developing dispatch protocols and identifying Crests calls with LEAP. Is there another, sorry, is there another what's next slide, Ms. Winston? Okay, so we're working on developing dispatch protocols. That's one of the things that is coming next to create an alternative number, and to identify which is rooted to the Crest Department, identify skill sets and training for dispatch and develop job descriptions to hire dispatch. Is there an additional slide with Ms. Winston? No, there's a closing slide. Okay. So with all of that being said, we invite you all to share your recommendations and concerns about how we go about implementing the Crest program. We may be able to answer some of the questions in regards to the content of the PowerPoint, but many things are yet to be worked out and agreed upon by the implementation team. We will listen, we will be listening carefully, and we'll bring all of this feedback to our implementation team meetings. Just as a reminder to the community, Brianna and I report at every CSWG meeting implementation updates and brief meeting summaries. We hope that the community can continue to inform and guide us and be involved in this work. So I would like to invite the community at this time. If anybody has anything that they would like to share with us, please raise your hand, and I will identify and if Ms. Winston, you could bring them in to speak at that time. Like Ms. Lauren has her hand raised. Yes, thank you, Ms. Winston. Can you please bring Lauren in. Hello, Lauren. Thank you for being with us today. Hello, everyone. I just wanted to have my, you know, face and voice heard. Because I know that I have been in conversation and wanted to make sure that I supported the ongoing, you know, work and outreach to the community. I don't know if I have one specific question, but I guess on my mind is like what is what when in the past when you're talking about like implementing and starting the press program, what, what do you think is the the start date. And I guess that's one, like, how do you foresee it. What was the timeframe for it to be implemented. I know there was some concern about the outreach to communities of color and not on the press program being overwhelmed by like college students or needs of, you know, the college, the college population. So is there anything else that is going to happen to like, you know, really make sure that there is communication with communities of color and also I know that I haven't read all of the, you know, the goals and the, the, the paperwork that, you know, was initially given to the town council and all the recommendations that the CSWG put forward in detail. But I guess my main concern is when we do talk about, you know, mental health and mental awareness is getting that there's, there's a, there's a, I guess, a stage where like a gray area where maybe, you know, a person may not be diagnosed or something or they might be going through like a rough time in their life and you know how is how are we going to how is the press program going to like situations that are like life situations that are like maybe housing situations or, you know, something that's bringing on stress that's, you know, can be a temporary situation and separate that from like a mental health and ongoing mental health situation. So I guess, yeah. Those are the things that are kind of on my mind. Thank you for sharing with us, Lauren. I think we have another hand in the audience, Miss Moisten, if you could please bring in Dimitria Shabazz. Yes, I'm just switching. I'm moving Lauren back to the attendee role. Thank you. Hello. Thank you CSWG for holding this forum on an updating the community. I did listen in a little bit on the CSWG meeting and someone mentioned that this is something that benefits the whole community. So again, I really appreciate you seeking input and also updating us on where things are. So two things. One, I guess I'm asking for a clarification on what was eventually funded by the town council and agreed upon by the town council from what I understand. And again, it may have just been, you know, missed because of the many weeks of that have gone by. Am I to understand that there are eight responders that have been funded? And if you could also clarify, what does that mean if eight responders have been funded? Will these grants that you all are applying for provide the supports for these eight responders, meaning transportation, a place, you know, as far as like a phone, phone lines or the many other support systems that are needed for these eight responders to potentially respond to different mental health crises in the community. So that's those are kind of my questions and comments. And again, thank you for holding this forum. Thank you for sharing with us, Demetria. And the other Dr. Shabazz has a question and a comment. Do you want to take it now or you want to wait? I think it's okay for him to go ahead and share with us. Thank you very much. And I add to where we started. And that is the timeline is the timeline. But is I seem to recall the public there being kind of community education sessions established. I appreciate the public comment here, but is there a projection, maybe after the position is staffed up to introduce that person to the community and let that person also kind of, you know, update and give a vision to the community? Is that somewhere on the horizon? Thank you, Mr. Shabazz. Miss Moyson, if you could please bring in Lev Ben Ezra. You should be filtering through now. Thank you. Hi, Lev. Thank you for being here with us today. Thank you so much for hosting this event and to all of you in the entire CSWG team. I really appreciate the work that's demonstrated and just have a few questions or considerations to add. I am particularly interested based on my role at the MR Survival Center and thinking about our potential organizational utilization of this resource. So I am curious if there has been any further consideration of crests being reached via 911 or an alternate number. I understand there were some very critical reasons to have an alternate number that wasn't at all connected to the record keeping or streamline of 911. And I can also really see in the value, the value of the simplicity of accessing it through a known channel. And being able to divert calls that the caller might not know whether or not this is something that could get handled by crests or requires APD and being able to have dispatch throughout that. So that's one question that I'm curious about. I would also like to just kind of, I guess, express a recommendation or my own enthusiasm as part of the Amherst social service organizational network that I would really hope to see strong coordination with existing social services. There can be really good linkages and referrals rather than attempting to reinvent the wheel. And I also think that there is potential for a really helpful feedback loop or feedback mechanism back to those organizations around specific gaps that are causing challenges that then there are crisis or emergency responses that are happening after hours. Obviously any given organization may or may not be able to address that in the short term, or potentially even in the long term but I think it would be really helpful to think about how that information or what's going out there can can cycle back to us in terms of thinking about those roles of addressing basic needs that are and various social support that are at the root of many of these types of challenges. And then the last question that I had at this time is kind of about the types of calls that will get diverted and so I've certainly heard a lot of talk around directing mental health related crises to this alternative support. But I would love to hear any further information and further decisions in terms of other types of calls like with things like traffic calls or loitering or other things like that be going to Crest. I don't have a list of recommendations in my mind, but I'm just kind of curious about some of those other pieces and similarly, is there a mechanism built in or will the implementation be thinking about Crest's capacity to handle both crisis or emergency calls and also non emergency calls that could go in so those were some of the pieces that have from a pragmatic side that I've been thinking about in terms of utilization of Crest once it gets developed. So thank you so much. Thank you for being here with us and sharing love. And Laura Decker will be entering the room now. Okay, thank you. Hello Laura. Thank you for being here. Hi, thanks. Laura Drucker. District two. I'm just want to thank you all for all your hard work. I've been following your work from afar and just really thankful for the work you're doing I know it's difficult. And particularly just applying for all those grants is really time consuming so kudos for that work. Just, you know, wanted to just say, I'm really excited to see where this goes. I was actually saw saw something this week that made me feel like it might have been somebody that was in a mental health crisis or drug related crisis that could benefit from services. And it just made me think about how beneficial this service will be for our community when it's, when it's available so I just echo the sort of thoughts about, you know, outreach and training for our community to make sure we utilize this service. And to its full extent, and in the way it meant is meant to, to be used. I don't have any strong ideas of how to do that yet but I know you all will have some good ones. So thanks. Thank you for sharing that with us Laura. Miss moisten if you could please bring in Judith Glaser. Hi Judith thank you for being here with us today. Thank you. Well, I've been watching you from afar from the beginning and I just can't thank you enough for what has been an incredible amount of work. Much more work than a committee usually does. And you've done it so well. I mentioned a concern kind of that I've had all along I was back quite a while ago when you were talking about the crest responders being town employees. I was really glad because I was in human services for a long time. You can see how those services get squeezed and squeezed by their own contracts to the point that they're paying terrible salaries and not giving good benefits. And I'm looking forward to learning more about the African diaspora mental health association. But because they're now patient mental health service they may be subject to the same kind of squeezing. I want to be sure that our responders are paid salaries that are in concert with other emergency responders we have in this community. Thank you. Thank you Judith. I miss moisten if you could please bring Joanna in. Hi Joanna thank you for being here today. Hi sorry we cannot hear you. Can you hear me now. Yes. Hi everyone I'm not a resident of Amherst I work there I'm a resident of Montague. But I have been following what you've been doing as well and coming to some meetings and I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for providing a local model for other towns to look towards. I know it's a lot of work but it really is something to be proud of and that's really all I have for you but thank you so much. Thank you for sharing with us Joanna. I was wondering co chairs if you wanted to address some of the more basic questions and perhaps that could get some dialogue started. Yeah so just off the bat. Thank you everyone who made time to join us this forum and to provide questions. I took some notes and for the questions that I don't have an answer to I will work on getting answers, and I encourage you all to join us for the remainder of our CSWG meetings. I will continue to hear updates on where we're at with the implementation meetings. So one question I wanted to answer was the alternative number from 911. So, as far as I know the implementation team does want there to be a separate number from 911 to access Cress, but we will still be able to, for people to reach Cress from the 911 dispatch. So I would like to do the types of calls that will be diverted. That is something that leap is still working on and they haven't delivered that data to us yet. I think Miss Mills had asked, what was the time frame so we have an approximate time frame if you want to speak about that. So the, I know the Cress program is due to launch in February. And so that is the deadline we are working with right now. We are still waiting sort of to iron out when each step will take place and that will be informed by the data that we get from leap. And so I think there was a similar or a question along the same lines in regards to the eight, the funding for the eight responders. And that was something that was allowed the town council that we were given given funding for a minimum of eight responders, but we are also still waiting for the leap data to tell us how many responders should be on per each shift. And I think what's what the shift should look like and the scheduling. And so those things will also inform if we will pursue funding for additional responders or how we will staff. How we will staff the program will really be based off of the leap data but we will have a minimum of eight responders. Another concern that I wanted to address was the referrals and not recreating the wheels, the Cress program will definitely work with the existing social service agencies in the area. And when we didn't meet with the ADMHA we did ask about their experience with referrals and providing resources for people who they interact with and they said they are experienced with that and we hope that's something that the Cress program will provide for people. Do you want to speak on how we kind of talked about the follow up work that happens so that, you know, Cress isn't going out to a resident, and then that's, you know, they solve that problem and that's it that there's there's some follow up behind that can you speak about that a little bit. Yeah, I think we've been looking more into it's all still under development but we've been looking into the follow up process and having some sort of case management, so that there, there is somebody reaching out to people who are utilizing the Cress program and who are and who are we who we are responding to, we're hoping that ADMHA will also have the ability to have provide case management to families and work on other things that might be needed. We're also trying to find some sort of way to have a referral list or a central list of a hub of resources available that could satisfy a variety of different needs that people have when they call for emergency safety services. Deborah. So I just wanted to thank again, Alicia, Brianna and Russ for being on the implementation team. Obviously, we know it's a lot of work along with all the other partners who are on there from the town, but I guess as a follow up when you had said that the Cress launch is is around the time table might be around February. So does that mean the director will be on board in February and then we'll help to kind of hire or what what what have you all have you talked a little bit about that I just wanted to get an idea. Yeah, so we have at this point drafted a job description for the director and that job description we have handed off to HR who is running it through the municipal rating process. So we, we don't have a great idea of how long that process necessarily takes, but one of the things under our contract with leap is that they will continue to help us move forward in terms of crafting job descriptions. And so the idea is that we will hire the director as soon as possible. So as soon as we have a working job description that has gone through all of the processes we will have that posted. We're hoping that to have them on board before February so that they can continue to serve on the implementation team with us. There were quite a few questions in regards to the training and skill sets. Do you want to speak about that a little bit. We don't have a lot, but we could speak on a little bit of it. So in regards to the training we're hoping that once we hire the crest director they'll be able to help us with that, but in additionally the leap contract. They will be working with us to design each position and suggest training and supplies for each role. So we're hoping that they're able to guide our work. And once we have a better idea of the calls that will be that the crest program will cover will understand more of the skills that needed, and that will probably inform the training and the supplies needed. So just to kind of keep the dialogue going, what are some of the ways that the implementation team thinks will be a way to kind of keep the community engaged and, you know, continuing to give feedback. I know Brianna had said that obviously to tune in because that's one of the great ways right is to tune into CSWG meetings because we're always talking about it and making sure that we're, you know, 150% supportive of getting crests off the ground in a way that is accessible and it's going to be impactful and it's going to help out all communities, but especially BIPOC communities and those that have been impacted in so many ways for so for so long. But what are some of the other ways that you think feedback might be able to be given. I think we've discussed as an implementation team that we would want to have ongoing outreach and ongoing opportunities for the community to provide feedback and for us to update the community in regards to what we are doing. And so we have discussed the possibilities of having other forums or having other events where we go directly out into the community to get feedback. And so these are all in the works and the, the emergence of the Delta variant is sort of making those things something we still need to discuss and work out exactly what that would look like and if that's still a possibility at this time but we do plan to continue to present the community with platforms in which they can engage and be informed about the work happening. Ms. Pat, and then if you can bring Lauren back in. So first of all, I want to thank everybody that came out tonight. And for those who spoke, I am wondering if the two coaches, you know, could share if any, are there any challenges that the implementation team is facing. Or is there a way that the community could support the team. I think one of the obstacles that we're facing right now is restructuring our original timeframe, given that we weren't able to get the contract signed by leap in the timeframe that we had intended to everything is a little bit set back and we're really waiting for the data from leap to guide our work in the responder position the project manager position, and the skill set that we're going to need for the program. And I would say that contract being delayed has been an obstacle to move our group forward. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, so Ms. Lawrence here and she's been, she's had her hand up for a few moments and she's in as a panelist now, if we could have her ask her question, Ms. Lauren. Thank you. I just have, I think one other question, because my connection went in and out. So I don't know if you had talked about this but when you say responders. Can you clarify is that just like responding to a call, or is that like also responding, you know, going out to, you know, wherever a person is. Do we have a description of that or do we have a description of that now like, what would that actually look like a responder. Thank you. Thank you, Lauren. Is that something I can answer now, Ms. Western. Okay, so the community responders is the name of the individuals who will be responding to call so not not dispatch people answering the phone but the people who will be hands on working within the community. So we are hoping to build at least two responders per team so that they will be responding to calls in a set, and we are waiting for the call data from leap in order to identify what skill sets would be best to put together in order to respond to the types of calls that are going to be diverted to the Cress team. So maybe we should just can you speak on how for the most part these are nonviolent calls so that their calls that have come back and been reported as nonviolent that Cress will be responding to. Yes, sorry, I don't know if you want me to elaborate that on elaborate on that a little bit more. I don't have exact categories for which calls they'll be responding to yet. But we that that is what leap is doing right now so they're analyzing the calls to figure out which calls are nonviolent and how they're coded in the system and how those things can be switched to the Cress team, and what skill sets would be needed to best respond to those calls. So once we get that data we can sort of craft. For example, if we want a responder team to have deescalation skills or mental health training or what, what type of background we would want them to have will be based off of the data that we receive from leap. So I hope that was helpful if anybody else wants to elaborate. Brianna I'm not sure that's what you were planning to do. No, I think you said it perfectly. This pad had her hand up. I was going to ask the coaches, if they could explain to the audience, in terms of how the Cress program will look like in collaborating with the APD and also the fire department, the, the medic, the dispatcher, yeah, the coordination. So in regards to the coordination between medics and the police department that's something that we're still working on right now. We hope that we will be able to provide us the data from the calls as to whether, as to whether or how many medics they think will meet on our team or available to develop that further. Mr Vernon Jones. I wanted to, again, express my appreciation to everyone who came out tonight. And in particular to those who spoke. As you asked some, many of those questions, I went, Oh, yes, we're going to have to answer that question, aren't we, but we don't have an answer yet. And to others I, you know, there was a proposal hidden in them and I went, Oh, that's a good idea. Yes, we'll probably want to do that. So we've taken notes in response to your questions and this forum I think has been more helpful to us already than you know. Ms Bada asked about challenges. We haven't talked much about this, but I think the big challenge down the road is really going to be finding the best possible employees, the best possible community responders. And any of you in the community, if you know people who might be good candidates for being part of the Crest program, we're not hiring yet. But we welcome suggestions of names or ideas from anybody at any time. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Ms. Farera. And on that note, you know, just to kind of add to what Mr. Vernon Jones said, you know, definitely, you know, reaching out to the community to get back to us and send out, you know, whatever names information to have in terms of people that would be able to apply for these positions because we're looking for obviously a diverse group of people with, you know, diverse backgrounds, language, abilities, everything, right? Because we want folks to be able to connect to community members and to be able to connect to all community members in Amherst. We do not want just, you know, folks that are only going to connect to a certain segment of Amherst. That's done, you know, we want to make sure that these folks are going to be inclusive, are going to be about equitable, about anti-racism, you know, and really be able to connect with people across all platforms. So it's going to be imperative for this to be a true partnership in terms of making sure that, you know, one, like we heard from, you know, some of the questions that came out that, you know, whomever ends up being the director, whoever ends up being part of Crest, eventually to hiring is outreaching to the community and being in partnership with the community, but also the community being in partnership with Crest, right? I think that that's the way it's going to work out the best. So it's going to be constant communication. So yeah, we definitely need everyone's help with this. Thank you, Ms. Farah. So we need to end this? I would like to just ask our attendees, if there is anybody else who would like the opportunity to speak or to share, but has not had a chance that if you would raise your hand. Ms. Moisten, if you can please bring Meg Gage in. Hi, Meg, thank you for being here with us today. I have a chance to participate and I just want to thank you for the hard work and how complicated it's been and what a good job you've done of listening. I'm really sorry to see that Jen is in her office at five minutes to eight. I'm just thank you want to thank you for what you're doing and I guess I do want to give a shout out to Jennifer who's been a behind the scenes and in front of the scenes in the middle of the scenes. Important person in our town for the last couple of years. Thank you so much, Ms. Mag. But to all of you really thank you for your leadership. This is not been easy. And I hope you'll call on us. If we have skills that you could use. Bravo. Thank you. Bye. I was stopping a panelist. That's a really strange picture of me, but oh well. Thank you, Mag. Mr. Vernon Jones, did you have your hand raised or I guess this may be a little out of order and a forum on crests, but I just wanted to remind the public that the community safety working group has continued to work since we made the crest proposal. And we have other proposals that were in our first report that we hope the community will continue to attend to and provide support for and speak out for. And we really encourage you we have another report coming up. It's going to be late October. And we really invite you and encourage you to read that report and support those proposals as well. It has been so helpful to us to have the strong positive community response to crests. And we look forward to engaging with you around those other proposals and hoping you will engage with the, the other leadership bodies in town to see that many of them can be implemented in a very thorough and important way. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. I miss my son, can you please bring Lauren and thank you everyone. I have just one more question. One more question. That's on my mind. I just picturing what this might look like compared to like other social services or community services when people are need I know transportation is a big part of, you know, but they're getting them to a certain place. Is that something that has their, you know, got through and also, like, is this like program going to be something that is more like, I know people need to be aware of it but is it going to be like are the vehicle if there are vehicles, are they going to have press on the outside of the vehicle so people are like, what's known is something that people are aware of or is it something more like if they're dealing with something very personal that they wouldn't necessarily want people to know that they're getting help with. It's just, I know this is maybe something small but it's just a question that I have. Miss Lauren no question it's too small when it comes to implementing a program. Thank you very much. Yeah, I was going to say, although we have discussed the importance of having vehicles and that is something we do plan to work out. In the future, we don't have that set in stone. And I think it's very helpful that you brought up the labeling of the vehicle as something that we can take into consideration when we do get to that conversation. We want to speak on her first part of the question in regards to helping people get to appointments. We had spoken about that a couple of the implementation meetings and ADMHA said they could possibly. Well, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, well, yeah, so we have, I, well we have discussed these things I just don't think we have like a set in stone answer. And so there is the possibility that ADMHA will be able to transport people to appointments and such. And we're hoping that we may be able to have access to multiple forms of transportation as well. But again, those are things that we will have to iron out and I think that they will also be dependent on what happens with the grant process that we're still waiting to see if we were approved for the grant. Do you want to explain a little bit about the grant how, you know, it's a larger amount that has to be split between the organization just a little bit and more detail. Yeah, so the grant is a collaborative grant and so it requires us to collaborate with a mental health, mental health or social service, and so that we chose the ADMHA and the grant amount will be split between the two organizations if we do receive it. And so I think though that there is general consensus that we will try to figure out how to partner with them, regardless of whether or not we receive the grant. But just under this grant if we do receive it that is one of the requirements and one of the things we are working on. Miss Pat and then Miss Ferrer. I just want to publicly thank and acknowledge Miss Mary Beth, who was part of the implementation team before she resigned. She worked very hard on that team and she was instrumental in reaching out to the mental health organization. In Springfield, I was the one who recommended that organization when I attended one of the meetings. So I just want to let the public know the role of Mary Beth. And then I immediately I got into action when I suggested the group, and it happened. So I just want to like thank her for quick action. Thank you Miss Pat, Miss Ferrer and then Miss Owen. I want to make a quick point around transportation because I know that when we were, you know, making our recommendations and looking into crest that was one of the points that came up over and over again in terms of the research is making sure that there is transportation available for people that we are assisting through crests to get to appointments and if they're referred to any social service agencies, whatever they're going through that they also have that transportation. They're going forward right to help someone out and especially someone that's in crisis so going through a situation. So I think that that would be an important part to. So thank you, you know, Lauren and others who have made that point but that would be an important part to make sure that's continued to be highlighted because that comes up over and over again in a lot of different environments transportation is key. So that needs to be really thought out and put some funding towards to make sure that it happens. Thank you Miss Ferrer, Miss Owen. I had a similar comment to Miss Ferrer, but I just want to thank Lauren for bringing up the concern around transportation and for helping people with non urgent. Maybe appointments or referrals and not, and having maybe considering on marked vehicles. I think that's really important and I appreciate that. Thank you Miss Owen, Miss Pat. I thought that when we worked on our charge part A and part B in looking back, it would have been, it would have made a lot of sense to include traffic control into press program. Because part of the issues that happens with BIPOC interaction with APD is traffic stops. So in hindsight, it would have been better to have recommended, you know, including traffic stops with press program. Thank you Miss Pat. Miss Ferrer. Yeah, I mean just to add to that and I think you know when we were discussing it, traffic stops or something that I know we a bunch of us brought up. But I think that we can still address it and make sure that it is part of our recommendations around part B, even though you're right Miss Pat, you know, obviously there need to be some funding and, and, you know, behind it, which is why, you know, possibly would have a sense of have it there, because since already funding has been a lot of for this next fiscal year, but, you know, something that we can still put in even if it's included in the next fiscal year, because that's going to be crucial that's going to be key to make sure that that that gets addressed because obviously as we know that's one of the main ways that people are calling specifically, you know, by populations get profiled by the police and harassed and mistreated. So we need to have that. It's critical. Thank you, Miss Farrah. Place to wrap it up. Yeah, I was going to ask if you wanted to give a quick run down of the of what Chris is working on now. After we after Deborah speaks, she has her hand raised. Yeah, I mean, you know, I just can't say it enough because I think Mr. Vernon Jones and Miss Pat, I think everyone has said it, Lisa and Brianna and Tashina. We need to have the community involvement and you all have been spectacular, you know, in terms of all the support, all the involvement that you have given us throughout this whole process I think that that's what gives us the power to continue to move forward, but we're still not done as Mr. Brennan Jones and others have stated we're still doing the work. So please continue to be involved, continue to send the feedback continue to guide us continue to share. You know, just, you know, all your ideas that it's fabulous, you know, and we're guided by what you all want us to do. So it has to be us together doing this together so you know, we were here until as a group until November 1. So please utilize us, send us support and make sure that that, you know, we hear you, you know, we're hearing you every step of the way. And, and we continue and we want to continue to do, you know, everything that you want us to do. Thank you, Miss Ferreira. Miss Bellman. And also, I wanted to add to that and say that remember, this is, this is our community too. And so I would like to see the BIPOC community continue to make their voices heard, continue to voice their concerns, and their concerns of the Amherst community, like just as far as like where they are failing us as a community, like failing the BIPOC community and like, you know, just because our services ending, you know, I want to encourage you to keep talking about showing up to meetings as often as you can, showing up to forums when you can, bringing people along when you can, reaching out and trying to talk to the people who are blindly meeting this community. Because I just, I really think that, you know, we can't continue to let this die over and over and over again, because we're here, and we're not being seen. So just, you know, I just want to encourage that of the community. Thank you, Miss Bellman. Miss Ellen. Just as a last remark before we wrap up, I want to again amplify what Miss Pat had said and thank Mary Beth for really getting our group off the ground, helping us apply for grants and really facilitating the meetings and getting this going. I also want to thank the community for coming out today and if you're in the audience and maybe didn't get a chance to share with us I do really encourage you to email us because we'd love to hear your perspective and continue to hear that. And we'd like you to guide and inform our work. We really want this to be community based and we are very grateful for you coming and making the time to be with us tonight. Thank you, Miss Ellen. Miss Moyston. I just wanted to kind of touch up on what Miss Freire was saying and so as far as the community being involved and thinking that some of the community responders it would be great if they could be. We already have individuals in the community who are already looked upon as natural leaders and it would be nice to see if we could it's possible to get some of those individuals into some of these positions so that transition over isn't so hard there's already a trusted face there for the community to see so I wanted just to add that and then I don't know if you guys want to talk about the other recommendations that you made in Part A or you just want to end and we can continue our meeting. I would suggest we let everybody turn to other turn to other concerns. Sounds good. Miss Alicia and Miss Owen do you have a statement. Yes, we can do the singing bowl again because you know along deep breath it's always helpful. I think that would be great miss my son, I'll be sure you an agreement. So again, we thank everyone for coming out tonight we appreciate it this the community safety working group obviously won't be able to work so hard without all of the help from the community and we're going to say good night and on the sound of the singing bone going to ask you to take a deep breath and kind of sit up nice and tall and straight and then as you exhale feel your body relax. I never exactly know when to tell everybody to come back because everyone looks like they're enjoying it so much. So CSWG members would you like to say goodbye to our audience and we can continue on with our meeting. Oh, yes, they're more than welcome to stay. Yes, guys left off with two more items on the agenda. Okay, so I think the last two items of the agenda that we did not get to before the forum we're just an update in regards to the resident oversight board in the successor group. Um, so I just wanted to report back to the group that Brianna and I have asked Mr. Bachman to review our successor group document again. He told us that he would review it over the weekend and we have emailed him to request a meeting on how to move forward but have not heard back anything directly yet. I think Mr. Bachman himself and Mr. Vernon Jones were able to meet with Chief Livingstone last week in order to review the draft of the resident oversight board document that we have. He did identify possible areas of conflict in the draft. What he identified to us was the subpoena power possibility being being a possible conflict conflict with the union. So we are now taking a minute to look at the Springfield oversight board because they do have subpoena powers. And we want to see how they may have overcome any obstacles that or if they have even come across any with the union and with their their ability to subpoena. We also identified another potential area of comp of conflict being the involvement in the contract negotiation. So he is wondering how or what we would want that to look like. If we would want a representative from the resident oversight board at the negotiations directly, or if we would just want them to be continued to be informed as to how the negotiations are going. Chief, it usually takes about six months to negotiate a contract and not much has changed within these contracts in the last 30 years. He stated that promotions are contract contractual. Sergeants are promoted by written test and interviews and lieutenants are and captains are promoted through solely interviews. It does remind us though that the civilians are welcome to participate in the interview process. Mr Vernon Jones and Brianna feel free to fill in if I missed any gaps there in the overview. I think that was an excellent summary. I think that was, you know, quite open to having input with regard to hiring. And I think is, you should correct me if if I'm, if you think if the team feels differently, but our interest in, or at least my thought was that the resident oversight board should be consulted before negotiations begin. I think that's that the resident oversight board would like to see in the contract. And then after the team sides present their positions, it'd be great to have the resident oversight board consulted if the union is requesting some change in the contract. It might be fine or it might be some reason the resident oversight board would have a major objection to it. I don't think it was that we want a resident oversight board member to sit in the negotiations. That's a terribly time consuming and thing that much of which would not be relevant. But to be consulted about the policy and working condition issues seemed like an important part of the resident oversight board being able to impact. You know how things go in the police department. Just a comment. I've been hearing that the resident oversight board may not have as much power as we would like it to be one of the suggestions that is coming and I emailed a link to everyone that Dr. which of us, you know, has sent to me. And that's, you know, we may not have enough time tonight, but for us to think about exploring ordinance in terms of establishing resident oversight board, it might be, it might have more power than what we are trying to do right now. So I don't know if it's too late to include that in our November election or whatever the process. But we need to have a resident oversight board that, you know, will actually make changes and do the right thing and not be constrained by what the town administration, you know, wants or doesn't want. So we may not have enough time tonight, but I think we should seriously explore that. I'm happy to call the town flag and see how the process goes or something like that if people want me to. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Mr. Vernon Jones. I think it'd be great to have an ordinance written that codifies the resident oversight board. Writing that kind of detailed legal language is not a quick process. And I don't think we need it in order to implement the resident oversight board I think we need it to establish it and make sure that its powers are not eroded over time. And I would think that that would be one of our recommendations implemented right away and immediately begin to get lawyers to write an ordinance that would codify everything that's in our proposal. I think you're absolutely right, Ms. Pat, that it should become an ordinance. So, yes, Ms. Pat. So I hear what you're saying, Mr. Ross, that what is the problem for us to actually get more information and maybe educate the community, some people who may not know the significance or impact of ordinance. We can still implement what we are recommending to the resident oversight board, but I think we should at least explore it and include it in our recommendation. I see we can even try, you know, put it in our local elections soon. I mean, when is the next election? Three years from now? So an ordinance can be passed by the town council. Council. Ms. Meister. I was just going to add that the Human Rights Commission has a bylaw as well. So they have the, it was something that was voted through town meeting and that's how the Human Rights Commission became. Thank you, Ms. Meister. I mean, I don't, I, if it's all right with the rest of the group, I think it's okay to pursue more information on that while we wait and that it's just knowing that it's not a process that we can take on or that we can see through as a group, but I think pursuing more information on how the process works can only be helpful. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, as long as we still have some community members here, if anyone knows an attorney who would like to volunteer to put some legal language, we have a fairly detailed proposal written. And if anybody knows an attorney who might wanna offer some pro bono work to turn it into a bylaw ordinance, please let us know. We could begin that immediately if we had somebody interested and available to work pro bono. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. So, yeah, yes, Ms. Ferrer. Well, I don't, I didn't wanna switch, but kind of what we're talking about because we kind of kind of just went over the whole thing with the succession group. In terms of that, you all had talked to Mr. Bachman and, you know, haven't really heard. So I guess what's gonna be the process with us since our time is coming to an end fairly quickly. And also, I guess for me, it brought up the whole thing. Why isn't Mr. Bachman at our meetings anymore? Is it just because he can't make it or what's going on? Because, you know, he's really never attended any other meetings of ours for like a long time. Do you think you might have some information on that? So when we switched him to Thursdays, he's usually at the TSO meetings. So we used to meet on Wednesdays and then we switched our meetings to Thursdays and he was already obligated to TSO meetings. That might be able to change, I don't, or if we just specifically say, can you come attend to the next meeting? Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, I guess that was never made clear to me that obviously he wouldn't be able to attend any other meetings because he had a standing meeting on Thursdays. I don't know that. Cause maybe we could have made some accommodations. I think it's important for him to, at least I would think it would be important for him to attend meetings like he used to attend before. And then also, you know, to just be able to give us some answers quickly because again, our time is coming to an end and we have a lot of questions remaining. And having our coaches who are already working over time to do everything else to kind of go back and forth with him on different things, you know, it's just not doable all the time. Can he attend one of the meetings that we're going to be having? Do we need to switch things around so he can be at a meeting? I'm like, you know, we need to get some answers. Ms. Owen, and then I think Mr. Vernon Jones also had a hand up. Debra, I think you're right. And I think time is ticking and we need to get the successor group going and the resident oversight board going. Would the group be in favor of Alicia and I reaching out to Mr. Backelman to attend our next meeting on the 23rd. And I know that the bulk of that meeting will be dedicated to going over the draft of the final report. But I think maybe we can dedicate the first 15, 20 minutes to have a dialogue with him about how we were going to move this forward as a group. So all voices are heard and we're all on the same page about what the next steps are. Is everybody okay with that? Mr. Vernon Jones. I think we have tended frankly to get more work done when the town manager was not with us because when he has an answer to something that we don't like, we end up spending quite a bit of time trying to convince him. And that has in my opinion not been a productive use of our meeting time. But I think the question that the Debra raised really applies to all of our recommendations. Once we go out of existence on November 1st and we've put these very carefully thought out some cases very detailed, thoroughly important recommendations out. What's the process for making sure that they get seriously considered and adopted? I hope that the town council would take initiative on that and look at each of them one at a time. But I think there's a lot to talk about there about how we, if we're not around as a group to sort of monitor the implementation of them and the new committee is not yet formed, there's a real gap there. And I think it's important that that be addressed with the town manager or perhaps with the town council as well. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Ms. Ferrara, Ms. Pat and then Ms. Owen. Well, I mean, I disagree with that just because one with the town manager, I just feel like he would attend meetings when it was things that was important to him. And we didn't spend time just going back and forth because he was very supportive of the press and doing certain things. So then that happened. The only times that we have had to kind of go back and forth has been with certain things like ending of CSWG and so on and so forth. And those things are gonna happen. I mean, that's a part of it. So for me, one is just like obviously, showing that this thing has not been a priority to him or to the town and that we've basically been on our own to try to figure out things. And the other thing is not fair to our chairs, always having to go to him and others to try to figure things out when asked before, we could just ask them a question during the meeting. And most often it was just yes to this or let's get more clarification and let's find out about this or about that. So I think that it would be important to have them at a meeting because if not, it's always our chairs having to go and take their time to try to figure all the stuff out. And then the other thing is that it is important to make sure that I actually asked my train of thought. So I'll come back. That's all right. Mariah, Ms. Pat. That's okay, Deborah. It's been a long night already. Okay, so let me just break it down. I don't know about you guys. I can't speak for anyone. I will really surprise that the town manager has not started putting together Successor Group. My worst fear is becoming a reality. And that is, we will be done with our charge November 1st and there will be no resident oversight board in place. It will eventually be, but we won't have that. We will not have the Successor Committee, the Committee Safety and Social Justice Committee. Until we go away, and God knows how those two committees will be set up. I am not surprised. I don't know about you guys. I'll just leave it that way. Why are we surprised? And that's the point. That's why we created, we had a subcommittee that worked on Successor Committee. So give to the town manager for review. Make any changes he wants to do. Give us feedback or anything. How long ago did we give him this? And I have not heard that the Successor Committee has been put together yet. And we, we're running out of time. Let's put it that way. Thank you, Mr. I think Mr. I think Ms. Owen and then Ms. Carrera. I want to propose that we invite him to the last half hour of our meeting so that we can have a discussion on the Successor Group and the Resident Oversight Board Group. I think that the CSWG has really engaged the community. And I don't want to discourage members who may be interested in either of those groups. And I want there to be transparency to the people who are following us and the people who want to see a Successor Group and Resident Oversight Board. And I think that has to happen with Mr. Backelman at a meeting. Thank you, Ms. Owen, Ms. Carrera and then Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah. And thank you, Ms. Pat. It has been a long night and I am tired. But I did remember it right after you started speaking. I was like, oh, this is my point. So my point is that, you know, it's different in terms of like, I know that all the recommendations we're going to make are going to be important for us to put in place. However, the Successor Group and kind of putting pressure that that happens is going to be critical because that's the, we need to see first and foremost, how is that going to be done? Who are going to be the members of that group? Because for me, I really think that, you know, they're trying to either not have a Successor Group, one or two have a Successor Group that's going to be very weak and not do much. And so if we have a weeks of Successor Group or no Successor Group, I don't know what's going to happen with the Oversight Board, right? So you have to have a strong Successor Group in order to then have an Oversight Board and in order for any of those recommendations to be put in place. So I really do think that that's different. And that's why I think we need to keep the pressure on and we need to talk to Mr. Bachman, you know, and let him know that this is important and let him know that what the timeline is so that this can happen. Because again, I see what's going to happen. Yep. That's the definition of right supremacy at work. You know, because it's not important at the same time and committee would have been set up. It's not considered important right now. That's all I can say. Thank you, Ms. Pat and Ms. Freira, Mr. Vernon Jones and then Ms. Owen. Well, I like Rihanna's suggestion that we ask the town manager to come with the last half hour of a meeting. And I think the agenda should be exactly what Deborah just described. And I think we should let him know ahead of time. We want him to have read our proposal carefully and come to us with any concerns or anything he wants to talk about changing or not and a plan for proceeding. He should know that before he comes and perhaps the same with the resident oversight board, but starting with the successor group. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Owen. Yeah, and I Mr. Vernon Jones, I'm in agreement and I just want to emphasize that Mr. Bachman was the one that recommended that we create a successor group to continue our work. And that's why we shouldn't be worried about ending in November one. And I think it's important that we point that out. And that was something that we all depended on and sort of comforted, not comforted us, but made it somewhat okay that we were ending on such short notice and weren't able to cover the things that we wanted to cover. Thank you, Ms. Ellen, Ms. Pat. I was going to add that it would be very, very nice if that successor group is appointed prior to November 1st. So have CSWG and the successors group at least meet once. Wouldn't that be great to have that before we depart? So I don't see how that's going to happen before the end of October because we're not meeting until in two weeks, right? And so that's when we hope to hear from the time manager. And then I don't know how long it takes him to put committee together. I know there are so many openings in so many committees in our town. So I don't know how, whether or not people will jump into this committee given the way the town council and the time manager has treated us sometimes disrespectfully. So we'll see if people will actually, you know, apply. But we're encouraging the community to please apply. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Ms. Moisten. So I'm just wondering if Mr. Balkoman decides to move forward with the successor committee or gives feedback to Breonna and Alicia on whatever edits or revisions that he would like, it would be okay to move it forward faster, correct? And he could still attend to the 23rd, just take that piece off of it. And then for some reason, I was under the impression that the implementation team, although the members from CSWG might change with the members of the successor group would be implementing the remaining of the recommendations that have to do, you know, there was the youth empowerment and the multicultural BIPOC center and a few other ones that I think that could be kind of handled at the same time. But I was under the impression that the implementation team or maybe there would be revisions on who was on there would be doing that as well. Or at least I had at least advocated for that, like so that we can get everything done. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. I just wanted to say a couple of things. One that I am in agreement with Breonna's suggestion still that Mr. Balkoman attend the last 30 minutes of our meeting if possible. And I think it would be important for us to be able to talk out some of the details and hopes that we have, especially in regards to being able to have the successor group set up before we're disbanded and the possibility of being able to meet with them or to even be a part of the process of figuring out the membership of that group. I also just wanted to say, while I think that's a good idea, Ms. Moisten, I'm not sure that I was under that same impression. And so, yeah, I just wanted to put that out there. Ms. Ferrara. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I wasn't under that impression either because I think the successor group is a group that's going to really make sure that all of the recommendations from part A and part B get accomplished. They get accomplished in a timely basis. They get accomplished with the essence and the root of what it was that CSWG had recommended them with, right? In terms of making sure that the focus is on BIPOC community and helping out those that are marginalized. And so the successor group is gonna really be the pivotal pressure point for the implementation group and everyone else to kind of do what they need to do. And I think if we don't have that successor group, a lot of these things are gonna fall through the cracks. That's what I think. And that's why we wanted, right? That's why we had talk to Mr. Valkerman to extend us because we wanted to be that group to kind of make sure that the recommendations were put in place. But you didn't want that to happen because I'll say it publicly because we were gonna be very strong and we're gonna push it to make sure it would happen. And now this successor group is gonna happen and we don't know who, what, where, when and that's why we need him and we need to have that conversation. I just wanted to make it clear that the implement that it would just be like a new implementation group because of the town managers most like, so it would be the members from, I would just assume that it would have worked similar to the way the implementation team works now so that you would have members from the successor group and town staff working together to implement the things that need to be moved forward. They can still be that fire underneath it, but there has to be some type of town staff involvement and when it comes to making those things happen, that's all I was saying. I just wanna be clear because sometimes what I'm saying gets misunderstood, so. Yeah, so you're saying two different groups, right? The implementation, yeah, yeah. No, we're saying the same thing, we're on the same page. Thank you, Ms. Moyston. So if it is all right with the group, Brianna and I prior to this meeting had the intention of reaching out to Mr. Backelman again to see if it would be possible to meet with him next week because although we did meet with him on Friday, a lot of that discussion needs follow up and there weren't any real conclusions or answers that came out of that meeting. And so if it's possible and if he is available for a meeting next week, we can still pursue that so that we can give him the idea of what we're looking for at the meeting that he'll be present at the following week so that we can suggest that he, well, I honestly hope that he has read the document before we're able to meet with him next week and that he may be able to provide suggestions at that point, but in case that is not the case that we can suggest that he go over the document before the meeting that he attends, I'm not sure if you all would like us to follow through in that way. Ms. Ferrara and then Ms. Moyston. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's why I was suggesting that because you all are working over time, you know, you all are doing so much, you know what I'm saying? My thing would be just, you can email him and say, hey, this is boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, this is what we need you to, you know, talk to us about this is what we wanna discuss on the meeting, you know, that last half hour, beforehand though, if you wanna, you know, red line, tell us already your vision for the succession group, blah, blah, blah, please feel free, you know? I mean, I don't think you all need to go take up your time again, and that's why I was suggesting he come to a meeting because then as a group, we could be like, okay, you know, you were sent this email, you had this information, now what's your plan, what's your vision? Give it to us, you know, as opposed to you all taking your time, but it's up to you if you wanted to do that extra step, I wouldn't recommend it. Thank you, Ms. Burr, Mr. Vernon Jones, did you also have a hand up? No, okay, I apologize. I think it's up to the two co-chairs. I'm comfortable with it, whatever you decide with regard to this. Thank you, Ms. Pat. So I just want to make a comment and just, that's my personal opinion. I hear what Ms. Moisten stated about, you know, for people to also consider natural leaders in our community to apply for town government jobs. Strong BIPOC women have applied and they got rejected, but if you're weak, you get hired. I don't know how blunt I could say it. That's what is happening in our town government right now. I don't know how else, so I don't know how responder jobs will, you know, play out to be, will BIPOC folks actually be hired who are ready for reform in this town? I don't think so. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Mr. Vernon Jones. I agree, there's a big risk there and I think we have to insist and figure out how to get involvement of some of us on the hiring committee so that the strongest possible BIPOC people are hired. I also want to say that in my opinion, Jennifer Moisten is a strong BIPOC woman and did get hired in the town. And I don't want anything, as Pat just said. I don't, in general, disagree with Ms. Pat, but I don't want to get to be taken as a comment about Ms. Moisten. It's not what I meant, but seriously. I didn't think he was. He cannot be strong and be a BIPOC person in work for the town of Amherst. It just doesn't work for him. Seriously, can I speak? There are different ways of being strong. If you're seen, if you are spoken and you're seen as a threat, you don't get the job. You can still be a spoken, but present your message in a different way. You will be hired. It is happening as we speak right now. We will be losing highly qualified professionals to other towns that might grab them. Okay, I know what I'm talking about. I'm not going to say much. So let's not say what are the employees. There are employees. I can get people to apply for responders, but if those people are vocal and speaks through to the power, will the town management actually hire them? Is the question. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Ms. Ferrara. Yeah, and I mean, I totally understood what Ms. Pat was saying, just because even with Ms. Moisten, who is a strong woman there, I mean, you need more strong people of color, more women, bi-talk women of color. We always know that in town jobs, and in other jobs across Amherst and everything, usually you have one and that's it. And they think, okay, that's enough. No, that's not enough. You need like, why can't we have a half? Why can't we have a majority of people be bi-talk in town management and things like that? And that's the part. It's just like a lot of times when there are strong, bi-talk people that apply, they don't get it. They don't get hired. They don't get hired. They don't. I know so. I have statistics. People talk in the community. I know what's going on in our town government. They're not getting hired. And stop people, stop saying, where can we find bi-talk folks? We're in this town and I'm not looking for a job. I have my own business, but I know people who would like to stay and work here, but they're too radical to work for the town. I'm pissed. We need to be, it needs to be a reflection of the community. I think I've said that plenty of times, the staff here. And I think we're frustrated. I'm frustrated. We have to be nice to white people to get our jobs here. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Ms. Bowman. And one of the issues with when a bi-talk person gets hired in one of these town communities or town positions or whatever position they might be in is that they get overworked. They become the voice of every person of color. They become the voice of every black person. They become the voice of every whatever the situation may be. And they get overworked and then they get tapped out and then they're like, done. They want to be done. They don't want to deal with anyone. I know multiple people who worked for the school. It's not turned on. I worked for multiple people. I know people who worked for the school who left because they were being dragged across the coals every single time something happened with a person of color, they were being pulled in and dragged through the trenches to like answer questions and help the situation and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So as a community of bi-talk people, that's the other piece of it. We have to be working together. We can't have one person of color applying for a job. We got to have a multitude. We got to figure out ways to be making sure that we're giving support to our communities so they feel comfortable applying for jobs. Like I just thought about a job the other day and I was like, oh, I'm not applying for this job or don't feel comfortable. But then I was like, I had a primal chemistry and be like, you're qualified for the job. Like you can do this job and it's not even an, like you wouldn't even be an issue and anybody who knows you, who's seen you work knows that this will not be an issue for you. And I still am second guessing myself. So this part of the problem is that in this community, I've noticed that whether or not you have the letters behind your name, this community has kind of like caused a situation where specifically bi-talk people don't have any confidence. And part of the reason why they don't have confidence is also because they know they're gonna walk into work every day and be the only. And that's hard, you know, that's really hard. I've done it many, many times. I'm part of the midwifery community and the doula community around here. And there's one or two or three work, like, but only one that's like recognized in like the Boston area. And there's one, the first black midwife, Holmberg midwife in Connecticut. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like when we see one of our own and when I mean one of our own, I mean any bi-talk community person going out for a job or they mentioned that we need to throw like a lot of support behind them. And we need to help, we need to encourage our community to throw a lot of support behind them because at the end of the day, you know, a lot of times we just feel alone, just feel alone. And then we feel tapped out and it's hard. And, you know, it's, I wanna see my more diversity in the town government, but like, and I was like really considering going for town council, but like I'm from this group and from the politics and stuff from this group, I'm tapped out. I'm totally tapped out. And it's like, that's what ends up happening. That's exactly like, I'm a prime example of what ends up happening because do I have the ideas? Do I have the like drive? Do I have the passion? Do I have the like voice? Absolutely, but I'm tapped out. And I'm not even like, I can't do it. And so we need to figure out a way to make it so that we're not causing our community and potential leaders in our community to be tapped out. And I love you all, but I really gotta go speaking of tapped out. I gotta eat some dinner. I gotta be to work at seven. I'm exhausted, you can see it in my face. So I love you all. And I'm crawling into bed to watch the old school Fantasy Island with Tatooie, the plane to plane. You know what I'm saying? Like what? It's not Tatooie, just in case y'all were wondering, it's not Tatooie, it's for free. So I'm gonna watch that. I need to decompress. And that's how I'm gonna decompress and eat my quesadilla. And so all the love to all of you, cause I love you. All right, great. Thank you, T'China. Thanks, T'China. Can I just... I love this group. We have a lot of fun. We're going for margaritas on the... What is that? It's culture. What I like about this group, what I like about this group is we're not following the... I've done it. You heard margaritas. You're coming back. I heard margaritas. No. No. Thank you. Yeah. October 28th at eight o'clock, we are going for margaritas. Do not forget me. All right, now I'm actually going. Bye. I'm sorry, Ms. Pat. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm going to say one thing I like about CSWG, we are not traditional committee. We are not following the stand, whatever it is. But we're getting a lot of work done. And that's one of the things I'm going to miss with this group. I really miss you all because I like the way we conduct our business, whether people like it or not, we are getting a lot done. Rather than being too serious in meetings and you can speak your mind, your time and everything, that doesn't work for me. I love this group. I think other committees should, take notice because we are diverse people in this town and it's not only the way the white people run their meetings, we should not follow that. It doesn't apply to some of us when we run meetings. So this is really good. There's nothing wrong with that. The most important thing is that we're getting things accomplished. We're getting a lot of work done. We're being productive, right, people? Right. Are you done? Just joking. I'm delirious. I've been here too long and it's hot in here and I'm tired. So I just wanted to make a few comments. One is I think that Pat, you raised good points and I know it's been completely frustrating because I'm here with you and I can see it in you guys all and it, but you guys have definitely set a little bit of a new standard, right? Because what used to work for other committees, like for instance, when you guys went to, went to present to the final committee, you guys went to, went to present to the finance committee, that the way that that one is pretty typical of how it usually goes, but maybe that doesn't work anymore, right? So you guys definitely have changed and set the bars for some community or it's for some changes in local government. Again, I'm starting to fade. But also, you know, you guys have definitely made more movement than any other committee has been established in such a short time. And even though I know that not everything has worked out the way that you've wanted it to, that there's still been a lot of movement made and that you've opened the doors for a lot more involvement from the BIPOC community and for changes in local government. And then on the employment side, you know, maybe I just shouldn't even talk about it, but so what I will say is yes, we needed this to be a reflection of the community and that does need to happen. We need true representation. What I will say is a lot harder, as Tashina said, to come in and stay. The microaggressions can be real at times and then the response to that can be real. And because they're microaggressions, people don't necessarily understand the reaction all the time. So it, you know, it's, it is, you know, I don't even know how I just don't want to, yeah, well, I'm going to stop now is what I'm going to say, but I've really enjoyed our work in our very long and late evenings and look forward to the 28th for Margaritas and, you know, some just regular everyday talk. If I may very quickly, we talk about supporting BIPOC employees in our town. I think we shouldn't look any further than what we've done with Jennifer. I know at least I'm one of the people that pushed that Jennifer should be recognized and promoted in her job. I was very vocal about that. And CSWG, you know, agreed. That's how support looks like. And the town manager did a good job by considering and appointing her that. I think that's what we should be doing. If you have the platform, you don't even have to have the platform. Speak up. If you feel that BIPOC folks have no career path working in this town or something, you know, just organize small group of people and say, you know, I think this person needs to move up. So we've set this standard. It can happen. We can do it. Thank you. Thank you. And also to like there's, I know that we're trying very hard to change the inside culture here at town hall because there's something about the fact that if you come to pay a bill or if you come and have an interaction with the town and it's not a positive interaction, there's not much encouragement for saying that I want to go work fair, right? Like all of these things matter, right? From being out on the fields, the different fields that we have, the interactions with people over at Amherst rec, with all of the families, all of that matters. And so it's really important that the inside of our, our internal from the buy-in from the top down is really enforcing that change so that we can open up the doors more and so that people feel more welcomed. It's just, you know, we're in the middle of a change. And I don't know, we can, I can feel it here, right? Like there's a shift happening. And so, you know, we're going to power through it. One last thought, and I promise his last thought is, I want to do a transaction at our town hall. And to my greatest surprise, I saw an African-American male greet me by my name. And I've lived in this town for more than 35 years. It's never happened. I had this visceral reaction of at last, I actually walked into town hall and somebody actually greeted me on working in, but it shouldn't end there. I would like this young man at some point to move up the career to not just, I'm not saying being receptionist is not a good job, but, you know, if there are opportunities for him, also I think, you know, it should be considered. But just to work in, to have the face of a young black man meant a lot to me. I've never seen that since, even in this town. And I just felt welcome. Let's put it that way. And I just want to say that HR in general, I think is, and not even just HR, it's one of the things that, when my position changed today, and we have the director steps and that I want to work on a little bit more is how we support the staff. I mean, if you haven't noticed, we've had a high retention lately, right? And so something's going on. So we need to support staff and we need to support the incoming BIPOC staff and incoming staff in general, so that they want to stay, right? Like that's, that's what, you know, government jobs used to be those jobs that, you know, people come in and like high school and work their way all the way up and stay for 30, 40 years, right? Kind of need to get back to that. I also think it would be nice, you know, with the housing, it's hard to go out and recruit people from other areas. So for instance, like the town clerk, you're looking for someone who already has that background. And you just, you know, if there's one, it's hard to get someone to come, to come stay here. When the rents are so high sometimes and the housing, you know, the property taxes are so high and the housing market is so high. So there's a, I mean, I'm not making excuses for anything by far. I'm just saying that these are some of the barriers and the challenges that, that we face. And so I don't believe that that will stop us from making this an equitable and inclusive town. But, you know, it is, it's hard. It's not just not always as easy. Not always. Sometimes it, it is that easy. We can't hear you Alicia, but I'm really hoping you're saying that we're going to like. Sorry. Can you hear me? Yeah. Okay. So I just wanted to take a minute. I said, thank you. Thank you. So sorry. So I wanted to take a minute before ending the meeting tonight also just to express my appreciation for you all, for your hard work, your perseverance and your bravery. I want to take a minute to acknowledge the harm that has been done. And to acknowledge your resilience. And I think that it, you all are amazing. And I feel very privileged to be able to have been working with you all. And so I want to remind you all to practice self-care. Whatever that looks like for you. If it's like Tashina watching movies and eating quesadillas, I encourage you all to end your night that way. And to continue to take care of yourself while we finish out this very important but challenging work. Deep breath time. Let's let it go. Yeah. Right. I am a product of my environment, right? Like that's what it is. Take deep breath, everyone. We should be doing some yoga. All right. Are we going to hear those famous words? We got it. I think that has not been created within 24 hours of the meeting. I would call this meeting adjourned. Thank you everyone. Thank you everyone in the audience for sticking around. Thank you. Thank you.