 Good afternoon everybody and welcome to our Lunchtime Webinar Express series. Today we'll be hearing from award-winning marketer Edna Boampong on the success of the Getting Under the Skin project. So before we get started with Edna's presentation, let's very quickly go over the format for today's session and how you can participate in the live Q&A. We'll be hearing from Edna for around 30 to 35 minutes. We'll then move into a 10 to 15 minute Q&A session to answer some of your questions. For those of you registered for the webinar and viewing on the go-to webinar platform, you'll be able to post your questions for the Q&A at any time during the session by clicking on the question mark you'll see on your screen. If you're watching on a laptop, you'll find the question mark on the right-hand side of your screen or along the top or bottom if watching on a tablet or smartphone. If you're watching us live on YouTube or Facebook and would like to take part in the Q&A's in future webinars, you'll need to register for the session either via the CIM events page or through our posts on the usual social channels and watch it via the go-to webinar app to be able to submit questions. Edna has very kindly agreed for the slides to be available to download whilst broadcasting, so if you'd like to have a copy, just click on the handouts icon and you'll find them in there. Again, this feature is only available if you've registered for the session and are watching via the go-to webinar app. If you would like to share your thoughts about today's webinar on the socials, you can use the hashtag CIM events. We'll pop the hashtag up again a little later when we get to the Q&A. If you're a university student attending today's webinar, then you may want to sign up to the CIM Marketing Club. All you need to do is hover your camera over the QR code and that will take you straight through to the sign-up page. Alternatively, you can hop onto our website and find it within the qualifications drop-down menu. It'll keep you up to date with the latest trends, innovations and concepts in the marketing industry, so it really is worth taking a look and signing up. So I would now like to introduce our guest speaker, Edna Boampong. If you want to turn your webcam on, Edna, I'll pass things over to you and the floor is yours. Thank you, Judith. And welcome. Hello, everyone. Good afternoon. I'm delighted to be here. When I say here, I'm just at home, but I'm delighted to be hosting this webinar for you. So before I get started, I'm just wanting to do a bit of a poll because I can see, and the numbers are still piling in, there are almost 400 people on this... who are online at the moment. And I can't see anyone, and I don't know who people are, but it would be really good if I... if you could just pop up the poll, please. Liz, so we can just get an idea of where people are coming from now. I've been told that this could be international. There could be people from all over the world. Or it might just be people from the UK. So I'm just interested to know. This was a tricky one when I was trying to think about what were the options that people could select from. I thought to do it by continent, but that didn't quite work. So I only had five options, but hopefully there is an option here that matches where you're from. And while you're doing that, because I know it takes a few moments for people to be able to select and for the results to come up, just to give you a quick bit of who I am. I'm Edna Bone-Pong. I am currently the Director of Communications for Shropshire NHS. My background, essentially, is in public health and social marketing. So I would say as a communication person, I am an insight-led communicator. And use that really in the work. Along with some of the other communications, marketing, engagement type responsibilities I have within the NHS in Shropshire. So whilst we're still waiting for the results to come up, I think it's probably worth saying if people have attended this webinar to hear a really theory-based talk about behavioural science, or if you're expecting me to talk you through the behavioural change wheel, et cetera, et cetera, I'm really sorry to disappoint you. That's not what this presentation is going to be about. The presentation is about trying to put in a simple way how powerful insight can be and how powerful it is to use research when you are communicating or trying to target people and showcase just what kind of impact you can have by using research and insight. Okay, that's interesting. It's as expected to a certain extent. I expected most people to be coming from UK and Europe, but we also have some people that are from Africa and Asia and from either America or the Caribbean. So hello, everyone. We have actually gone international. Brilliant. Okay. Back to my slides. So I'm going to start with a question what is behaviour change? Okay, behaviour change is what it says on the Tim. Behaviour change is the practice of trying to change people's behaviour. That seems quite simple, doesn't it? Now I'm going to go a little bit old school here because this is where I started. I started in social marketing and social marketing was what I would describe the OG, the original for when we started to talk about behaviour change and we use social marketing, particularly in health. And health-related social marketing essentially is this systematic application of marketing alongside other concepts and techniques with the idea of changing behaviours and reducing inequalities. So for me what this is, it's about using some of the well-established marketing techniques that the commercial world has always used to change behaviour to improve, to reduce inequalities. And we've seen over the years that social marketing has been a really powerful and useful tool in actually changing behaviour and sustaining behaviour change in a really cost-effective way. Now I know some years ago we started moving away from the terms especially in the health arena and that was mainly because there was a misconception about social marketing and what it meant and people kept referring to it as a bit of a gimmick or more just marketing. So to be really clear in terms of what social marketing includes and some people may be familiar with this social marketing is it focuses on social goals it's all about having a really deep understanding of people's beliefs, lifestyles. A real key thing about social marketing is about segmentation. It's about understanding that one size doesn't fit all and I'll talk to you a little bit about that in a moment but segmenting audiences is the way to be really targeted. As I said before, the focus of social marketing is always usually around behaviour change. Social marketing focuses on an understanding of barriers to action as well as competitive behaviours and I'll explain that again in a moment. An important part about social marketing is the use of mixes and mix of strategies and interventions and channels because as I mentioned it's about segmenting people and ensuring that you're not doing the right thing or saying the right thing using the right channel to the right people at the right time. So you need to have a full marketing mix. Another important element of social marketing is collaboration. It's about working on this with a range of people because you just get a better result. And lastly, something that in some ways is core to social marketing but sometimes is forgotten. It's about people that you're trying to engage with working with them, engaging them in the creation and the delivery that you are trying to achieve. So it's about that co-design piece. Now before I go on I will apologise because if I do slip too much into NHS speech I will kind of try and rein myself in and talk in plain language but us people in the NHS do have a tendency to talk a little bit in acronyms and riddles. So at the core of any behaviour change programme or social marketing is the person. Understanding the person and understanding the behaviour. So whether that is if you come from my world the people being communities, patients, citizens but in a commercial world it's the same thing it's your customers and your consumers and your clients for instance. Equally the behaviour is about what people actually do. So understanding and looking at what people do, examining why they do it what's the influencers or influences and what are those incentives and barriers. Now I'm as I say of coming at this from a very sort of NHS kind of health perspective but it's the same for anything. So if you are from the commercial world if you want to change if you want someone to buy some of your products versus a competitor's product in some ways understanding who that person, those people are and understanding what drives them what incentivise them might then help you to understand how can you get them to change their buying and change their buying habits. So all of this from my perspective is means that you have to start with a realistic understanding of how and why people behave the way that they do. Traditional attempts to influence the way people act are often based on communications and raising awareness and quite often assumptions do that quite a lot in the NHS. We are trying to encourage people to change their behaviour but really it's not a behaviour change campaign, it's a communications campaign or raising awareness. There's one important aspect of behaviour change and what it is that important aspect is acknowledging the majority of people they know what they should do and knowing and doing it are not always the same thing. And that's coming back that's coming back to what I talked about that sort of preferred behaviour versus competitive behaviour. So this is a behaviour analysis that I often do when I'm starting any type of communication type programme. And I've got an example here where I've done a bit of a behaviour analysis for cycling versus using a car. So on the left you've got what is the preferred behaviour? The preferred behaviour is for to try and encourage cycling and on the right is the competitive behaviour which is the use in a car. So as you can see there are most people understand some of what the preferred, why do I want to why is it a good idea to cycle it's things like it's good exercise it makes me feel good etc etc but on the other hand there is the things that stop you from cycling or person from cycling it's quicker it's easier etc and then what sits underneath that are some of the barriers. So what I've tried to highlight here is there are some very obvious things that we might all be able to guess if we were looking if we were doing a bit of a behaviour analysis but actually what I've highlighted is a few things in reds that are things that maybe we just wouldn't know unless we spoke to people to understand why is that people are not changing their behaviour. So for instance someone might not be cycling for not concerned about their own health but they know that it's their family members that might worry about them being on the road or it could be some really functional issues like they just don't know how to choose the right bike so I know a lot of cities are putting a lot of effort into building the infrastructure to encourage people to cycle but actually the infrastructure alone is not what's going to change behaviour they need to think about understanding what might motivate a person to actually decide to cycle or not now this is really a quick and dirty way of doing some primary research or get to get a bit of understanding about people but I would say if you take one thing away from this session it's this so every time you are about to do some kind of campaign or comms type program to try and encourage people to do something to change their behaviour or act in a certain way either do this yourself to kind of just think through what people what are the benefits, what are the barriers or do some real quick and dirty research with some of those people that you're trying to target for these questions and you never know, you might get some really important insight that's going to help you actually structure your campaign or your messaging that actually you may not have thought of so social marketing it's a whole process it's important to prepare it's really important to understand what the problem is what is the exam question you're trying to answer gaining consumer insight is really key what are you trying to engage with what are those barriers, what are those concerns what are the incentives, what motivates the person developing the strategy implementing and then reviewing and actually sometimes when you do the review you might have to cycle back a few of those steps and go back to getting a bit more insight and then actually tweaking your strategy depending on what people have told you but what are the benefits of taking a social marketing approach so before we talk about the benefits because I'm bound to talk about the benefits aren't I because this is what I live and breathe and this is what I believe in but I can also recognize what some of the drawbacks are some of the drawbacks of taking a social marketing or an insight-led approach is the fact that it is more expensive quite often doing research you might not have the skills and expertise internally to do some of the research and you need to outsource it and it does take longer to take an approach where you are gaining insight you are testing what people have told you you are testing your materials, testing your messages it does take a bit longer but if you do it it will be more effective and you will get better results it will give you taking a social marketing approach will give you a better idea of who to target it will give you a better idea of why people are acting a certain way and what behaviour you need to influence and how to go about doing it so I am now going to talk you through a case study that takes that approach that I have just talked about and I appreciate that that was a really quick whistle top store on social marketing and this is going to be a bit of a run a canter through this I mean I could talk for hours about this case study because it was delightful actually working on this and delightful seeing the results and the point of me going and taking you through this case study is not to necessarily share all of the data with you because there was a lot of data I will share snippets of it but I will at the end say if you want to kind of get more of the whole all of this data all of the research that we did I would be happy to share that but for now this is just about giving you an example and a flavour of the approach we took what we found out and then how we developed our campaign and the results that we got from it. So this programme of work was done around two years ago in across Cheshire and Merseyside which is a conurbation of about three million people and nine local authority areas. The context of this which people might be aware this campaign or this piece of work started when we were about six months into the pandemic and we were noticing Covid-19 was not affecting all population groups in the same way. We knew people that were older were dying at a higher rate, males for some reason were, people living in areas of deprivation and people from ethnic minorities were dying at a higher rate. Now most of that correlated with existing inequalities and mortality rates that we see every year. The outlier for us was ethnic minorities. We couldn't understand why people from ethnic minorities were dying at a higher rate and it was concerning because we knew that that would be widening that inequality gap. So I'm going to talk through the purpose of this programme but I'm going to start with quite from a quite a personal point of view. This is Mary Agipong. Mary Agipong was 28 years old during the height of the pandemic and she was pregnant. This was in the first round of the pandemic really early on. She was a nurse and she was quite late on into her pregnancy and at the time there wasn't the advice to the pregnant women to discontinue working. So she continued working while she was pregnant and partly she continued working was because she couldn't afford to not work because she was the main breadwinner. She had a younger child at home and a husband. She was the main breadwinner so she couldn't really afford to protect her and her unborn child. Mary caught Covid during work and unfortunately she died during childbirth. Mary was a friend of my mum's. She attended the same church as my mum and when she died my mum and the church community it rocked them. They were full of fear. They were absolutely devastated at this happening to someone so young who was full of life that left the young child and her husband behind but thankfully the baby survived. Whilst I was seeing this play it out and seeing how this was affecting my mum and other members in my family and the community generally I just wondered what was the NHS doing to respond to this? How were we going to ensure that we could support people from ethnic minorities going forward? We know that people from ethnic minorities often access our services at a lower rate than people from different backgrounds but we knew that that inequality gap was going to keep widening so if we were really going to close that gap and ensure that we could put in some recovery mechanisms to support people from ethnic minorities we needed to gain a better understanding of things that were impacting them with Covid generally. On top of that we were working on the Covid vaccine and anecdotally I had heard, I knew that people from my community, the African community were very hesitant. They were saying that they did not trust this vaccine and when it came they were not going to take it and as someone working in healthcare that was a bit of a concern to me because I knew that those groups were people that really needed it so I worked really hard to get the funding to deliver this programme because I realised that in order to actually really support people from ethnic minorities potentially to run a Covid campaign to encourage people to take the vaccine we needed to understand a little bit more about them so this was a free stage approach in terms of the research we started with a real good understanding of who they were and I'll come back to and talk to you in detail about all of these free processes we did some dex research to start off with and then we did some quantitative research to understand the what and then we did some qualitative research to understand the why and how we could help people so in terms, this is a bit of a busy slide and again I don't expect people to be able to read it or understand all of it but what this is trying to tell us and at the very first instance I was saying to the powers that be okay, can you give me a really accurate understanding of the mix of ethnic minorities across the whole of Cheshire and Merseyside across the nine local authorities and what people kept saying is the most up to date data we've got is a census data the census data was about 10 years too old out of date and we knew that there was transient populations and the population had really changed over 10 years so what we did was we I worked with a data mining company that mining lots of getting lots of different data from schools data to all sorts of other data that would give us a clearer picture of who lived where across our nine local authorities we then built a tool this interactive tool that enabled us to drill down by street level who lived on particular streets across the whole of Cheshire and Merseyside so what this was telling us was by street what the mix of ethnic minorities were on that street we were able to layer it with additional other data like the indices of multiple deprivation which tells you how deprived or affluent an area is and we were able to be able to tell and really segment different people by street level that is really powerful we didn't have that data anywhere the next thing we did was we needed to kind of understand we needed to reach out to people and understand and ask people and get people to engage with a questionnaire now let's remember this was during lockdown so I believe we started doing this work during the second phase of lockdown so most of this was having to be done online or telephone and we were having to target we wanted to target every ethnicity group across Cheshire and Merseyside and according to the census data 16 ethnicity groups and we wanted to try and speak to as many people as possible and ask them a range of questions as well as their how they felt about the COVID-19 vaccine but also other things about how it was in how COVID was impacting them so we used a range of different mechanisms to reach out of them reach out to them partly was a social media campaign and we use this tool that I just spoke about that we built in the third phase to really do some geo targeted social marketing where we actually used we created a number of different adverts and targeted them at certain post codes that we knew people from those backgrounds and ethnicities lived so it was a highly targeted program just to get people to actually fill out our research and here is some of the insight here is some of what we found out from people in the first phase and as I say I'm not going to go into too much detail but I'm going to give you a bit of a flavor first of all the first bit of insight was the acceptance of the vaccine varied by ethnicity group so what we were hearing initially was that and this was really timely because this piece of research we were just finishing it at the time of the first rollout of the vaccination and what we were finding was our research and what it was telling us was pretty much mirroring uptake figures so for instance the first of all people thought that every all ethnic minorities would be hesitant but actually what we found out was that there was it really differed between the different ethnic minority groups and there were about there were about eight ethnic minority groups in particular that we would class as hesitant that would go either way but there was there were other ethnicity groups like people from the gypsy travel backgrounds and people that described themselves as black other or people that describe themselves as white and black African mixed and also Irish people who were outright rejecters of it so you can see here there was a real mix on terms of where people said they would definitely take the vaccine or not and this was really insightful for us because what we found was that there was about 20% of people that said they were hesitant so that was what we would class as today but there was 13% of people from ethnic minorities that rejected it all together and said no I would definitely not take it so for us we felt that the hesitant group were the group where A were the biggest group who were sitting on the fence and they were also the group that we could probably have most influence over really another really interesting fact was that trust in the NHS was much higher than the government now people might say well actually that's quite obvious we knew that but actually we knew that a lot of the messages that were coming out about COVID were quite often from local government and central government and what we found out was actually people did not necessarily trust local government or national government but actually the trust in the NHS is quite high and you can see here what we were able to do is categorise people into three different categories though the people that were acceptors, the people that were hesitant, people in the middle and the rejectors and we were asking them questions about what official sources of the COVID-19 do you actually believe and what you'll see here is that even people that would class themselves as who were rejectors they had much more higher trust in the NHS and the NHS messaging than they did in the local authorities and national government and that was really quite insightful for us because that helped us understand what voice do we speak to, how do we brand things and how do we now recognise what institution people were more likely to resonate with. The other thing that was quite insightful that people that we found out through this research was that how effective the vaccine was, was one of the principal barriers to take up to take up the vaccine but there were other things that people were concerned about as well so the biggest concern was people saying that they didn't think it was going to work very well but also people were really concerned about things like leaving the house to get the vaccine and catching the vaccine. That was a real concern to people and what was interesting actually is that different ethnic minorities had different concerns about why they would take the vaccine or not so it was again, remember I said earlier about why segmenting your audience is so important. That was one of the reasons because we were able to see what were the things that were concerning and what were the barriers for the different groups and different ethnic minorities and it also differed by age. People of different ages had different issues around why they did or didn't want to take the vaccine. So you can see here that about 29% of people had concerns about actually catching the vaccine when they left, catching the vaccine whilst trying to get, catching the disease whilst they were going to get the vaccine but also not trusting the government featured quite high and also other functional things like transport features quite high. The other thing of interest was different ethnicities trusted different media sources. Now this is a really busy slide and I don't expect people to really understand this but what I want to take away from this again which is important when you are looking at doing a comms campaign is we asked the question about what media they used the most and what sources that they trusted. And as you can see here on balance people from mixed ethnicity groups had lower trust ratings. They trusted less things than other groups. People from Asian responders trusted things like UK TV more than other ethnicity groups and Asian and black communities were more likely to trust things like newspapers, community publications and publications that came through the door. Now again when building your kind of communication strategy this was really important to understand what I've told you previously is understand what some of those concerns were for the different ethnic minority groups and then what were the trusted medias, what were the sources that they trusted the most and used the most so it would help us kind of have that cut through more. So that was the quantitative research that told us the what. And as I mentioned to you before that an important part of this or the third part of this program was then doing the qualitative research. So what we did was we held about 10 focus groups with a mix of different ages and genders from across the nine local authority regions. We then had 10 in-depth telephone interviews with key stakeholders community figures and what we wanted to do through the focus groups and through the telephone interviews was just test some of our findings with people get a bit more and get a bit more meat on the bone find out a little bit more about why people were saying the things they were saying and and also find out what were some of the mitigations we could put in place what were the things that we could do to improve communications and interventions how what did we need to do to support people to actually either trust us or change their behavior around either accessing services or taking the COVID-19 vaccination. Again, this is a busy slide I don't expect you to be able to read all of this or digest it but what I wanted to share with you is again this was really insightful for us. So I mentioned before that we in the first phase of the quantitative research we were able to almost segment our audiences into three categories which was the acceptors, the hesitance and then rejectors. Through the qualitative research we were able to segment audiences even more. So we were able to segment people into five categories so what we had in the acceptors column was people that were enthusiastic so eagerly awaiting as soon as the vaccine came they were going to take it. We had people that were open minded every intention of taking the vaccine but we're going to just wait and see. Then you had the hesitance who were the people in the middle that were saying they could tip either way, they would consider it but they needed a bit more information and need to be convinced a bit more. Then over to the rejectors you had people who were we called the fatalist who were avoiding the vaccine and they just were not convinced about the vaccine at all. Then you also had the people that were mistrusting not only were they were they avoiding the vaccine but they also had a number of horror stories they thought that the vaccine was being offered to them on the count of racism they just completely didn't believe that the government had their best interests at heart so there was absolutely no way that they could be convinced. Doing a qualitative research we were able to understand as I say to segment people further, understand where they were coming from a little bit more we were able to categorise the people further to understand which ethnicity groups fitted into each of those categories and we were also able to understand what was the best route to market in terms of influencers so which people might if we were going to be trying to target these people who did the message need to come from so I know I'm running short of time and I could speak for hours on this so I'm not going to talk too much about this chart but what this tells you is from the qualitative research what we found was there was almost four headings I think the trust piece is a really important piece the thing that I just wanted to just touch on a little bit there were a lot of people from ethnic minorities that were labelled anti-vaxxers because they didn't want the vaccine one of the things that we needed to acknowledge through this program was that some of people from ethnic minorities had really legitimate reasons for why they did not want to take the vaccine some of it came from fear some of it came from concerns around their experience in healthcare and some of it came from concerns around what they'd seen happen in their home countries in Africa where certain pharmaceutical companies had potentially come and experimented in third world countries so it did really come from a position of fear so and also some of it came from concerns about feeling disenfranchised feeling like the government have never put their interests at their interests first so all of a sudden this experimental drug has come out and they're saying roll up roll up come and get the vaccine people from ethnic minorities this is what you need you can see why some people were a bit dubious and didn't necessarily trust so one of the things that was core to this program was building trust and this isn't just for this program this is into the future we need to build trust within those communities so they do so when we so when things like this happen again there is that trust is there and they're more likely to listen to our messages our communications need to be authentic they need to be positive let's not tell people about what will happen if they don't take the vaccine let's tell people about what will happen if they do take the vaccine it's just changing that message turning that message on its head so it's about being more positive talking about the benefits of the vaccine protecting them their families not about saying this is what you know you'll die you'll be in selfish etc and we did hear those messages play out some of the things that I'm not going to talk too much about mental health this was a huge area that actually I mean I could talk all day about the the issues that came out about mental health and why we see in our mental health hospitals that they are they are filled disproportionately with people from ethnic minority backgrounds the people from ethnic minority backgrounds are more likely to get sections of people from British people and there are some genuine reasons behind that part of that is around the culture part of that is around services not being fit for purpose for ethnic minorities and part of that is because a lot of people from ethnic minorities are not understanding that the NHS provides services to support people with their mental health some people felt like it was the NHS was just there for physical health I think that's an important thing to take away and lastly the role of the GP being absolutely key to anything we do because people's trust around their GP was so high and I'm not even sure even with the GP's understood the level of influence and there I say power that they have with certain communities so taking all of that and going on to the insight and I can see I'm running out of time so I'm going to have to just skip through this really quickly we built nine place plans so each local authority area we built plans that would tell them we refreshed who their ethnic minority communities were so we told them exactly who was living in your conurbation we told them exactly what some of the barriers and the focus should be on the vaccine so what are some of their key concerns and we told them which post codes they needed to target with any of their communication so each of the nine local authorities we created these plans for we applied that insight into our campaign we targeted eight ethnic minority groups that we knew that was the hesitant which used the right messages to direct to them we ensured there was maximum cut through using the right branding using people that were authentic community leaders we used the right media because we knew what media each and what channels each of those groups were most likely to engage with and we ensured that we used this tool to really pinpoint where the people were to ensure that we were very very targeted so here's just an example of how we executed it this is Dr Mahmood he was a community leader we used the NHS brand we spoke directly to people from his community another example of people from Chinese community what their concerns were we used someone from the Chinese community the black community you can see that we just made we did everything we can we ensured that we had a range of messages using a range of protagonists i.e. community leaders etc and we led a complete full marketing campaign both offline doing community engagement etc as well as off online and we executed it strategically and in a very targeted way always being led by insight and data lastly this is the important bit I feel like I should have saved myself more time to talk to you about this this saved lives we saw our vaccination figures store but the thing we know from our post campaign research that sentiment had changed we could prove that there were differences in people who had seen some of our campaign those who had seen at least one of our campaign or messages were 21% more positive than those that hadn't about taking the vaccine so we could see we changed sentiment but the proof was in the pudding here is a chart that shows shows just how in February our vaccination rate with people with ethnic minorities was at about 0.66% and by May during that was our campaign period it had risen to 38.35% a huge increase now we know there was other factors that influenced that as well but what we could see we were an outlier in other areas that our vaccination figures within ethnic minority communities rose substantially at a higher rate than anywhere else in the neighbouring area and that was because of the approach that we had taken this is my final slide and I'm going to end this with this thing about getting inside people's heads why it's so important so this is a bit of an anecdote from a story I heard once about a pub owner I think it was in Wales and she had problems with for one of a better word men not being able to aim straight and what that led to was her toilets her urinals in her men's toilets were always filthy so she started putting up signs asking people to just be a bit more mindful she tried so many things to get people to just be a bit more conscious about keeping her urinals tidy and then she was speaking to some of the men one night and one of them made this joke about if we had something to aim at then maybe we would aim straight and that was a Eureka moment so she had little flies painted into her urinals and after she did that almost overnight she saw a remarkable increase in the cleanliness of her urinals and her toilets because dare I say it a man's mind works slightly differently and actually when you can get inside a person's mind you're more likely to get the results that you want thank you now I feel like I've been talking for well 45 minutes I have been so these are my contact details please do get in touch I'm not as active as I can be on both of these channels but if more people contact me more people start liking me and engaging with me it will force me to be and I'm just going to end this we're going to pass over to you to ask me some questions I've got one poll one more poll that I'd like to ask people and I think let's see you getting that ready the poll just the final poll to ask people I have a question for you is it coming up great what is the main barrier stopping you from taking a social marketing approach while I'm trying to target your audiences and customers now as I said before I've only had five options there so please try and choose one of those five options the first one being none do you always follow a social marketing and insight-led approach already second one is it time is it the time factor that stops you from following this type of approach is it the money factor is that why you don't follow a social marketing or insight-led approach and I'm assuming by the fact that we have almost 500 people on this call that people are very interested in social marketing and following an insight-led approach but is it your knowledge and your experience that stops you from following this approach or are you not convinced by it all was I not convincing enough that actually following this type of approach will get you the results that you need now as I say I know I talked about it from a health perspective but I'm really really convinced that actually in any kind of sector following an approach where you actually get into the minds of the people you're trying to target will get you the results that you need so I think we are just waiting for the results to come up oh and here we are okay great excellent one person who is still not convinced by it or one percent so that's probably more than one person isn't it okay I'd love you to put in the chat why is that you're not convinced but what it seems like the reason why a majority of people are not following or struggle to follow that approach is the money, the resource which I pretty completely appreciate and all of those factors but absolutely love the fact that 22% always follow a social marketing and insight-led approach that is brilliant that's me, thank you very much I think that do we do we have time for some questions now? Yes I think we'll have time for a few, apologies we've overrun slightly but as we mentioned earlier there will be a recording of this placed on our YouTube channel later on so if anybody does have to leave because of another commitment you could always catch up with it later on we'll try and take as many questions as we can so thank you very much for the presentation Edna and I will also stress at this point we think we've had a technical issue with uploading the slides there's a few of you who ask questions about that but we will make those slides available to you so we can get the problem solved now or we'll email them out to you later on so don't worry everybody will get them to you if we can so thank you again to Edna we're now going to have a short Q&A session we've already got some good questions to get us underway we shall get to in a second but please do continue to post your questions for Edna by selecting the question mark icon we'll try to get through as many as we can and obviously if you're on Facebook or YouTube if you want to take part in future Q&As you need to register and participate by the GoToWebinar app so first question Edna what would you do differently if you were running your program again? it's been very successful what would you do differently? yeah that's an interesting one I think there's learning from every program that you run I think what I would probably do differently is what we found what we heard was the role of a GP being so key and how much people trusted GPs I think I would work more closely with GPs to support the actual roll out of some of the campaign i.e. getting some of the campaign more of the GPs to voice some of the messages for us and to engage with the communities but really importantly I think I would bring the GPs in a bit more so they understood how important their role was because or is not sure whether some of our healthcare professionals recognise just how much people value them, trust them and how much influence they can have on certain behaviours next question is someone saying that obviously we're going back into another round of vaccines as we're approaching the winter for certain parts of the population can you see a change in attitude that's carried over into this I've heard the word people are sort of all they think it's not necessary anymore will there be a need for another campaign to make sure people do take up those off of a booster I think that's a really good question and we are we're about to go back into another vaccination campaign programme but this time around we don't have the same level of backing from the government and that's just me being really honest the government aren't doing the same level of advertising and promoting the vaccine as they have in previous years so it might be a challenge because people have got so used to living their lives there are a lot of people who we know have already been vaccinated so therefore they can't be vaccinated again so I think there's a little bit of a suck it and see so we'll wait and see where we get to December and December and see whether there is more work that we need to do and I think what we'll probably find is as usual it's certain groups that will are more hesitant and we'll need to do some work to actually encourage those hesitant groups to be vaccinated I'm sure okay someone's asking a question about the team that you've referred to a team of people that worked on this how big was the team and what different roles were there within the team so it wasn't a huge team to be honest I had a team of about four people however I didn't do all the work myself so I worked alongside a really great marketing agency an agency called Influential who are based in Liverpool and they supported with all three of those phases so they worked with other agencies that would help kind of get the boots on the ground in terms of doing some of that engagement and some of the research and we also worked with a data mining company that pulled all the data together so whilst I sort of referred to them as my team I only had a small team in the NHS but my extended team was the agency that I worked with that did everything from they led on most of the research as was mentioned as well there was obviously national research that was undertaken by the government in the UK and the NHS was there any concern that there could be inconsistencies from that national approach and other regional or different nations as well we had different approaches across the UK nations as well did it lead to any inconsistencies in other parts of the country the really interesting thing and I don't mean to blow my own trumpet but I'm going to we started doing this work first we started doing this research before the government started doing their research so actually I shared some of this research with people, some of our national colleagues and our research when they started doing their research correlated completely with what they were finding and it also correlated with vaccine uptake figures in terms of the groups that were more hesitant and the groups that were who were more rejectors so I would still encourage so whilst there was that national research going on I have to remember that actually when you do things at a very local level you can find out things and find out nuances and additional insight that you may not have been able to gather if you've done it on a national footprint so some of the things that were very very specific to some of our localities weren't picked up in the national research so that's why I would always say even if that national research was there I might not have gone as started from the base that I started from but I would still build on that research and I would encourage people to do that anyway. So that's an interesting question, did you have to use any incentives for the survey and completion of focus groups or anything like that to encourage it or was it purely a research project on a higher level? So for the quantitative research we didn't that was all survey based and we didn't use any incentive for that the qualitative research like most research you often do offer some kind of incentive so I think that we offered about 20 pounds so this was for focus groups for sort of communities to attend focus group I think we incentivised them by 20-30 pounds which is quite often very usual in that type of research but when we did the work this is the qualitative work when we did the in-depth phone calls etc with community leaders and community representatives we didn't pay them anything. Now we are running very short of time now so I'm going to wrap this up with a final question which is combined from two comments a couple of different people have asked about this they're obviously inspired by the idea of becoming social marketers and one person is saying is there any how can they best sort of train or learn or study alongside CIM training to be that or are there any books you can point them to? Obviously there's the LinkedIn group for our charity and social marketing group at CIM we would say that as a starting point but have you got any advice for any inspiring social marketers? Oh gosh that's an interesting one isn't it because at the time and I was starting to learn how to be a social marketer there was that was it was a buzz word and there was particularly in NHS there was lots of there was a centre the national centre of social marketing which is now closed down and there was lots of courses and lots of conferences I don't think there is as much but I encourage whoever starts that question to send me a message using the details I put up I don't know if we can go back to the slide just to put my contact details up again if we if you want to contact me I will then have a look and see whether there is anything that I would recommend that you that you read or courses that you attend. Okay thank you very much Edna so unfortunately I think we're out of time now we could have gone on like you say we could have talked about this for hours because it's something that it impacts everybody globally so it's very important work that you've done there so congratulations on that unfortunately that's all the time now we have for the Q&A I'd like to say thank you once again to Edna for the fantastic presentation and to the CIM charity and social marketing group for organising the webinar we do hope that you've enjoyed the session and found it interesting and worthwhile hopefully we'll get those slides to you as soon as possible we'll be also sending out a short survey in the next few hours and would love to hear your feedback it will only take a few minutes and all the survey responses are anonymous so please do let us know your thoughts and what you would like to see from our webinar express series in the future we'll be back with our next webinar express session which is freedom of thought in the online world on Tuesday the 20th of October at our usual time of 1pm with our guest speaker Susia Legre who will be sharing how the powerful big tech organisations have always sought to get inside our heads influence how we think and shape and what we buy you'll find further details listed on the events page of our website where you'll also be able to register for the session and this is the best way if you want to get involved with the Q&As and submit questions so if you've been watching us via Facebook or YouTube today remember to register for the session and then watch us via the go-to webinar platform so that it just leaves me to say a final thank you to you for joining us today and we hope that you've enjoyed the webinar take care everyone and we look forward to seeing you again soon