 All right, feel free to get started. Okay, so I can start here now, right? Hi, and welcome to tonight's opening panel of the Found International Virtual Performance Festival, originally from China, making a new theater maker identity. My name is Tianting Hu. I'm the artistic director of Found Festival and it's my pleasure to be in conversation with four theater makers that are not only my friends, but truly people I admire and look up to in this industry. I would like to tell you a little bit more about Found. So the premises of our work and why we are gathering today to open up the whole festival virtually this year. Found has been a virtual stage of new and bold re-imaginations of pandemic time theater around the world. And this year we have commissioned eight Chinese artists living in different parts of the world to create a new monodrama and to manifest what our individual voices are like on the backdrop of the pandemic times and stop Asian hate. And rooting that in the American theater landscape, there is a small group of us out there with bios that start with originally from China. Some of us find it unique and some may find it leads to some undesired stereotypes. But most of the time we rush to connect and hold hands with each other to celebrate what this identity has brought to our artistic career. What does originally from China hold for the lives of generations of theater makers? How did we find ourselves in the unique set of challenges, conversations and ultimately liberate us as artists and there's such identity? This is a conversation that we have never had before and definitely not the last we will have. So I really want to warmly welcome all the artists we have. Now we have invited so Chong Yuan Fan. He is the artistic director of Yangtze Repertory Theater of America and also a very talented, independent theater director and Xia Ren, Ran Xia. So Xia Ren is a playwright, director and artistic director of the Arctic Group and Minghao, Minghao too. Minghao is a playwright and also working on different projects now, especially commissioned by pipeline play lab. And Xia Yue Zhang, Xia Yue is the producer of the Art Trade Project and I will be the moderator tonight. So firstly, I really want everyone to give our audience a brief introduction of yourself, like who you are, where are you originally from and what kinds of creative practices have you been working on? Like on my screen, Ran is the first. Do you want to start? Sure. Hi, my name is Xia Ren. I'm originally from Shanghai, China. I am a playwright, director and sound designer. I work independently, but I'm a resident director at the tank and I work with Exquisite Corpse Company, which is a interdisciplinary theater company that's based in Brooklyn, quite a lot as well. That's it, that's all I got to say, right? All right. Yes, and I know Chong Ren is also from Shanghai, so do you want to take on it? Sure. Hi, I'm Chong Ren. I'm also originally from Shanghai. I started doing theater in college really and mostly musical at the very beginning in China. And then like after I moved to the United States, my work has been focusing on new works for like as a lot of us do in New York. And currently I'm the artistic director of Yonsei Repertory Theater and I'm also a resident artist and producing associate at Pan-Asian Repertory Theater. Great, and maybe Xiaoyu. Hi, I'm Xiaoyu. I am from Yunnan and Guangzhou, China. I am a creative producer, production manager and also director, performer. I am a theater hybridity and originally started working in dance theater and right now I also work independently and interdisciplinary performance and outside of my independent work, I am an associate producer at the Orchid Project based in New York. So Xiaoyu now currently is here in the West Coast, right? In LA? Yes, I'm in LA, Echo Park, LA. Yeah, and Minghao. Oh, hi, I'm Minghao too and I'm originally from Wuhan, China and I'm a playwright and I make plays. Yeah, and I just collaborated with Tony like a short YouTube play that's commissioned by his company and it's gonna be like a loose adaptation from like a story from the outside. Yes, I also like very glad I'm kind of part of the process of their incubation. So I think we can talk about it later because I also really, I think it's a really important project and we can discuss about it. Yeah, so I'm actually really curious like how did you find your interest in theater and how did you land in American theater? Yeah, does anyone have a strong interest to answer me about that? Because I think maybe not all of us like were measured in theater in college but it doesn't really matter like, yeah. I have one of those experience like how we Chinese people say Ban Lu Chu Jia which means you change career, you ditch your money making future to do arts because I studied psychology and I went to grad school for communications and media studies for years and then right after graduating from grad school I wrote a play, decided to go into theater for a time and then here we are. I think I initially got my interest in theater probably when I was even just in primary school and middle school, I remember reading the very first dramatic text and it was Taiman of Athens, Chinese translation. It was weird, it's a weird introduction to Shakespeare and then after that I just started getting that taste of consuming dramatic arts having my parents buy me all of the plays. So, but I never thought I was actually gonna make a career out of it but really glad we're here today. Yeah, I kind of just want to continue because there are so many people, Chinese artists they may not finally or like currently land or stay in America. And I'm wondering like how do you want to stay here in America to be a theater maker? Omi, I'm going for the long haul struggle of renewing my old visa once every three years which I'm just starting to do that and set every last penny of my income on my legal fees. Yeah, yeah, that is like a very primary struggle for we'll see all the Chinese, the artists from China and also other countries. Yeah, so what about the rest of U3? How do you like land in theater and started to do theater? Maybe, Tori and Tori introduced a little bit about it before. I can go. I didn't come from like any kind of like art background like the, I remember when I was like eight years old or 10 years old, there was a TV show in China called Dong Fang Ying Xiong Hao Shao Nian and it was like re-enacting the old way tales from like how to be a good kid or something. And I remember like my parents are pretty liberal and they wanted me to audition for that show. And I remember like I was crying so hard and there was like a table in our living room and I was literally underneath the table and I was holding the leg and I refused. So that didn't go well. And then like for the rest of the middle school, high school, college, I really loved seeing. So like I always enter any kind of like singing competition here and there, but that was about it. And I don't think I had a very clear path as what I wanted to do. So like I just went along with like whatever was happening to me. And freshman in college, I remember like I felt very lost. I went to Shanghai International Studies University and I was majoring in English literature and I just felt lost because like the whole, a lot of the Chinese kids, your whole life was to study hard and to like go to a good university and then like that was the only thing I feel like at least my generation, I don't know like what's going on with them in millennials, but that was about it. That was the end of like the whole life planning. And then in college, of course, there were a lot of self-awareness of like who I am, what I want and I just met this group of amazing people. None of them came from like a long theater, like in the background as well. So we just started, like somehow we all loved seeing and so we started doing musicals. We did my first musical on campus was Rent. And then later on, like after the first, like I would say like 16 months of my life, I took over the musical theater club on campus and I acted and I directed in the first, I would say like the first public performed version of Spring Awakening in China. That was like very early, it was like 2010 and that was the first performance. And then like, you know, so like suddenly I realized, shit, I had not interned anywhere. A lot of my friends were interning with those like, you know, Fortune 500 companies and you know, they were preparing themselves for like, you know, going to like the career, like or like becoming an adult. And I just felt like, you know, I still felt like a kid, but I was so happy. That's when I decided to look for grad school and particularly because back then, my only interest was in musical. So like, you know, like even these days, like, you know, Chinese musical or like Asian musicals are not like the industry itself is not as like, you know, well put together. There are a lot of, you know, infant structure problem. There are a lot of ways like in front of production to the, you know, create a process. There are a lot of issues and it's going to take generations to change. So I was talking, I told my folks, I said if I ever got enrolled in a program and I would just, you know, I would pick this as my career and I would focus on this only. And if I didn't get enrolled in any program, then like, I would give up this crazy idea and become like a quote unquote normal person. But then like, you know, my grad school actually gave me and my mentor was looking for somebody like more like a piece of blank paper rather than like somebody who's had a lot of experience. And I was very lucky to come here, you know, in the end. And well, like then the career struggle and all of that, you know, that's a long story. And like almost 10 years later, I'm still here and I'm still creating works and I've been meeting a lot of amazing people and I'm very grateful. Thank you for sharing like so much memorable experience with us. Yeah, and I know Xiaoyu and me how both went to school in the West Coast. So maybe your experience is different from like where people go to East Coast schools. So yeah, would you like to share some stories and how did you find yourself in theater, in American theater specifically? Yeah. Yeah, I can start. Yeah, definitely I was not thinking planning to come to West Coast for theater. Actually, all other schools that I applied was in New York or East Coast, but then landed at Cal Arts was a life surprise. So I felt theater not strictly theater of play or like language driven performance, but theater in general, like being in the physical theater has just been around all my life. I studied traditional Chinese dance and ethnic dance since I was four. So like performance and being around performance area and also in a way producing performance without knowing that was actually producing. So that has always been happening. And I actually studied filmmaking for my undergrad, but parallel to that, I started having a very close internet relationship with a dance studio in Guangzhou called Argyle Dance Performance Group. So I fell in parallel to my study in undergrad. Contemporary dance and also other performance language for me was opening up a way of body liberation and also just like a human liberation that I've never encountered before. And that just drew me very strongly and really also my parents was very fortunate that my parents weren't trying to put a lot of career pressure on me, but allowed me to explore step by step. They always had blind trust in me of figuring out what I want to do with my life. So I started working with the dance theater in also very hybrid capacity. And I happened to have a touring coordinator job with a company in Shanghai. So that job straight out of college gave me an experience to encounter like major theaters in 19 cities in China. So like Baoli Theater and all, I would say the equivalent of original theaters that exist in China. And also just encountered like how theater system operate, how the infrastructure I think and the infrastructure and the system of theater as a forming industry in China. And I had a lot of, I saw so many exciting things and also had a lot of question of because that was a touring production. So at the same time I was learning about how theater operates in foreign cultures in foreign countries. So by experiencing that clash, sometimes collaboration and sometimes clash made me feel I do want to know more about how this world is built inside out of the theater. So I had two choices if I wanted to apply for a more making program. So like directing or performance or producing a management program. And at that moment just like, I felt the tour gave me such a strong impact and I felt this is a place that I wanna start. So I was looking at our program and actually came here to visit all the schools that I applied. And I just immediately had a very strong connection with my mentor, my mentor then at CalArts. So like also CalArts is supposed to be a place where, because we do all, sorry, we do all school training. And it did give me a lot of freedom to explore and participate and involved in theater making all around. So not just my program solely. So at that time felt like a great way of studying the whale almost was like an apprenticeship. So I came here and yeah, very fortunate to have experience within my program, production management and producing but then also got to be involved in projects as a dramaturg and found my community of collaborators. And we've been still doing collaborative project independently. Great. And so mean how like, yeah, was how did you get into theater? But I know you are theater major, right? Yeah, I mean, I think similar to quite a few others here I think it was still like quite by chance that I did not go to college. I mean, I went to college in California at UCSD and I like, when I applied I wasn't a theater major. I mean, and college was a very trying time for me. I mean, and for many others, but for me, definitely. And so I think I was quite lost and I was kind of alone in another like not my home country. And then I was really just trying to figure out what I want to do. And then I switched my major multiple times. And so yeah, so it was, I mean, I think looking back, it may not be a bad experience to like really try out a lot of things, but at the time it was in another card. And so I think it was like totally by chance that like one of the beginning, like a begin edit at the beginning of a semester I basically went into the wrong classroom and then didn't realize I was in the wrong room for a long time. And that's pretty much how I stumbled up on like modern drama history class. And it was like a very scholarly class about like the theater history of the 20th century. And yeah, and I thought, oh, that's actually pretty cool. And I don't know what else I want to do or like I can do. So I thought I would try this. I would try this class. And yeah, and after that, I like try to play writing class. And it was, I guess in a lot like it is a way for me to like to that kind of self expression was, I couldn't have, I couldn't do like anywhere else. And yeah, so I think that's how I started. Thank you like everyone for sharing so much details about your life because I think it's very meaningful to be present and to be known like a very specific person, very different artist. Yeah, so we have already, I think it's very interesting that observed like all of us, because I am also a director and I was not major in theater before as well. So kind of share a lot of similarities with all that you have said. So, and the first thing I saw is like, we all have very supportive family. So yeah, I think that's a very good thing because I can imagine in a lot of stereotypes like Chinese parents and families mostly will have a very strong pressure on their kids. But yes, we are still like making arts and be supported by our families. I think that's something we are really appreciated and we also like want people to know, like I will want people to know that I'm really thankful to my family to support me to do arts. And another thing is we have talked about, we have so many experience in China, which I think in a way to influence us to get into theater and landed in American theater. I have like a question, it's what's your relationship between you and China and the Chinese theater industry now? Because I think different people will have totally different ideas about it. And also like what to expect in the future, do you want to just do more concentrated, more theater you make in America or you also have some expectation to do something globally or intercontinental? Yeah, does anyone want to start? Maybe, yeah, so good. I feel that's such a great question because I'm sure almost all of us studying here have encountered that question. I actually was just talking to several of my friends this entire week about our choices. I think for me, it's very unique that I think from the beginning, I really wanted to pursue a hybridity of culture and experience. And for me, having a life in theater or my life with theater in a fluid way, which means I can always experience from culture to another, is my ideal way of making work. But at the same time, I think throughout these years being in U.S., I've also had a very profound relationship experience of recounting my own culture and my roots. My relationship with Homeland, while it's a distant relationship, has brought me new intimacy with my past. So I think I encountered this idea of transcultural theater while reading, actually reading a play, reading an analysis of a French Chinese playwright. And this idea gave me a lot of inspiration of we are always gonna be in mobile, in mobility. Like right now, comparing to 50 years ago, we've already absorbed our generation. I grew up being heavily influenced by Western culture. And actually my relationship to theater was also mainly influenced by Western style of theater and contemporary dance, which was not originally from China. So I think there's cultural, there's also form, there's all these content and philosophy lifestyle, all kinds of hybrid mode of being that has one is always informing another. I don't know if that actually answers the question, but for me, it's not about physically where I'm gonna be, but I think my Chinese upbringing and the root will always inform my experience, whether I'm in China or outside of China, whether I'm in U.S. And also my experience here would always inform my future experience, I think. Yeah, thank you, Xiaoyue. I think that's a very, very good point. Like, because physically being in one place or another is like, yeah, it's totally different from what we read in the history or what is before the internet and also the globalization. But I mean, maybe wait up now what will happen next because I feel the globalization situation is changing too. Yeah, so, but I think I thank you for your sharing of ideas. And I think that's a good start about what kind of intercultural kind of work we have done or some work because I have researched all of your, all four of your plays and works you have done before. Like what Mihao said, Chongyuan and Mihao have done YouTube series is based on Liaozhai, the very classic Chinese stories. And actually, I think Xiaoyue also did a project based on Liaozhai before. And I also saw like Ran, you did a Tao play. And I imagine there might be some because I saw Chinese characters and also Chinese concept in it. So I think they're all very interesting. So does anyone would like to share and we may just have a discussion about how we did it and how we are inspired by what we learned and what we have this kind of intercultural identity. So first of all, I kind of want to share my screen with you guys because I really want to show the Liaozhai project with all of you and all the audience. Let me do it. So because I think it's a very interesting and intriguing play, a whole series. And I even really love the design of the posters and everything because I can paste very traditional Chinese but also like a modernized outfit, a very young spirit of all this. So this episode is all written by Asian playwrights and performed by Asian actors, actress. Yeah, and Xiaoyue, if you want to talk, like I'll just show my screen and you can just start to talk or Mihao, yeah. Maybe I will just chat a little bit. So I think it's tying actually back to what Xiaoyue was saying. The more I think about, oh, we're like tending or the question about where do you want to work? Like, do you want to working back home or do you want to keep working here? I've had a variety of different experiences working both in China, for Chinese companies in the United States as well as for Asian-American companies as well as for predominantly white institutes. And I would say like at this point of my life, what I, my main focus is really on, because I'm also tied, like I have very strong bond with the two organizations I'm working with. So my main focus currently is in my work in the United States. The intercultural element of making theater is, well, if any one of you can solve this problem, I would say go for it. But I just think it's at least, my brain room is not big enough to figure out how to solve that. I actually think it's not a solvable problem to make really the cross-cultural work have that much of an impact. Largely, it comes down to who's your audience? But you're right, of course, when we create works, we come from, it comes from who we are, like what like Mihan said, theater is in a way of express yourselves. And, but like in the end, isn't that like the saying like, if a tree falls into the forest, but no one's around, like does it make a sound? You want people to see it. You want people to know about it. And that way, like, you know, you're not just standing on the street and yelling and then like nobody knows what are you talking about. So that really makes me think more and more about, you know, particularly from like an artistic director point of view, like what we are doing here. In 2019, we did a very successful play. It was written by Yilong Liu, June is the first fall. That play, to me, it was like it was such a great breaking point for both, you know, my producing partner, Sally and I, and for the company, we figured out like, you know, we want to see the world, we want to produce plays to see the world through a contemporary Chinese lens. But what does that mean? We're still on a journey to figure it out. So when the pandemic hit, of course, all the live theater productions got shut down and we were actually doing the bilingual play. It was based on the death of a salesman and it was postponed and now like, you know, we're looking at to do it next year. And then like, you know, we were like everyone, I know like, particularly if you're still in the States, we've been going through a very difficult time, both like, you know, physically and mentally. The, so like, you know, I was haunted by a lot of the crazy weird dreams. And immediately I started thinking about like, you know, those nights when I was young, I was sharing a bedroom with my grandfather and he used to read Liao Zhai to me like every night. It was so inappropriate since I was a little kid, but somehow it imprinted this kind of like, you know, you go using a storytelling to express, there's like a part of you that you cannot really express directly to the public. And so like, I had this crazy idea, started like chatting with people and suddenly I realized a lot of people actually share that similar feeling of not only like, you know, about the pandemic of our struggle, but as well as like, you know, I think most of the writers were so excited because they were, you know, they wanted to write something about it. Then it comes to like, how to write it. I do not want to, you know, write, because like in our audience, you know, it like majority of the audience like our English speakers here. And like, I don't want to, and also there's, if we are not doing it in Chinese, there's no way for us to actually create, like, you know, the, like a more literal adaptation of Liuzhai into like, you know, any kind of format. So the more, I think about it, the more I realize we need to reflect because like, you know, there are a group of us here and, you know, the immigrants, the first generation immigrant artists here. And then there are a lot of the struggles personally or like what they are experiencing or like, you know, or what they're seeing, their friends are going through. That is more interested, you know, to me. So like, you know, we ask the writers to use the text in the novel as a start, a jumping, you know, like a jump off, like, you know, then to start thinking about like what it can make. But we want them to set it in a contemporary modern America setting and reflect what they are going through personally into the piece. And I think like, you know, everybody did a wonderful job and the all five episodes will go live on demand from next to Wednesday and then it's free for all. And so like, you know, just like go to yangxirap.org and you can register today and you can start watching them next Wednesday. And also like everyone is overwhelmed with online content right now. All of these pieces are about 20 minutes each episode. So like, you know, you can watch, you know, once like, you know, one episode a day and if you like. And I think like, you know, that's, because that's the like attention span I have these days. I cannot sit in front of my computer to watch like an hour show. So I hope like, you know, you will enjoy it. And we'll hopefully have more discussions about, you know, this in the future. Yes, I, yeah, I'm also like, cannot wait to watch it because I, yeah, I know the incubation process. And I think the plays are one of the best I've seen because I'm curating this online festival for two years. And I have to be honest, they're not a lot of very good play online. They may put their hearts in it, but the output may not be very, very good. But I believe like the Liaojie series, the clubhouse, I'm really looking forward to it. And from a writer's perspective, I kind of want to ask me how, like, how did you manage the bilingual writing in your play? You can maybe talk about it within the clubhouse series. I think for me, like, writing a lot of it is, I mean, for me is about like to really, about like patterns and habits, and really to, like, we talk about culture, and then East versus West, or like China versus the U.S. And I think those are like super urgent, like the important topics. But for me, I also feel like even just the word culture, of course, is not like a definite, like a deep definition of the word. And for me, a lot of it comes down to like, basically your behavioral pattern. And each of us, we come from different regions in China, and sometimes the cultural differences can be huge too. And each family, each like, I feel like how I was raised, like all my parents, and those are all my culture, and they're very different. And for me, those eventually shows up as like my behavioral patterns and habits. And so I think that's what I always like to investigate, like just knowing my own, learning about my own patterns and breaking my own patterns. And I think in that sense, like bilingual, like to me is a great way to develop a sense of like self-awareness, like the non-attachment, like non-attachment and like familiarize yourself from your old patterns and like you don't need to like break away from everything, but I feel it's a joy. And for me to like really learn about my own patterns and why I think certain ways. And I really agree with what Xiaoyu said about developing like a new intimacy with China after you've been in the US. I think it's, for me, that totally happened, I think. And for me, I feel like having that distance and like it really helps me to have more perspectives on China. I think when I was in high school in China, like how I looked at China was very, very different from how I looked at it right now. I think now I probably in some way look at it with more different perspectives and somewhere closer to objectivity, if that exists, but I feel like I definitely feel very different about China, about Chinese culture, about my upbringing now because of the distance I have, the non-attachment that's really helped me. I've read Mihao's play and I'm always like very in dodge with it because in some way I think it's interesting even Mihao's writing in English, but I can feel like a kind of freehand brushwork of Chinese classical painting like called Xie Yi in China in his English plays. So it's similar to what we have seen of the object posters, that kind of brush strokes. And I can feel that in Mihao's play. So I think it's very interesting that it finds a different freedom and a different perspective as a bilingual writer. And also I know like Xia Yuan, you also write a lot of things as you read plays but also critic reviews. What about your experience being a bilingual writer? Sure. I predominantly write dramatic works in English actually because I enter a few of the world after coming here to the United States and then made my communities and colleagues within the English speaking world first. So, but just to kind of add on the intercultural topic, I think I'm a pathologically optimistic person and I really have a lot of hope in creating works that bridge different cultures. And I'm actually really glad that you brought up Tao earlier. Because I kind of, I forgot about it and then I remember that I did that. So Tao in Chinese means peach. And a lot of the Chinese language that I'm interested in has to do with homophones and homonyms. And when we did Dark Fest at the tank theater a couple of years ago, the idea was to create pieces that does not use electric city. So my collaborator Florence and I and myself decided to create something that utilize both of our interests and mythologies across different cultures. So I brought up the legend of the land of the peach blossom spring, which is Tao Fa Yuan Ji by the Chinese author Tao Yuan Ming. He's ancient. I don't remember what time he was from. That's the one. So Tao is the surname of the author. It also means peach. It also means to escape. So depending on how the character is written they're all pronounced the same way. And we started talking about how in every single culture there exists a place where people's mind would travel to when they are trying to escape a reality that's a little bit too much to suffer. So there is Tao Fa Yuan Ji in Chinese legend. There is Avalon in the Irish culture and a bunch of other types of fantasy land in every single culture. So I think if we as a human could share that hopes and dreams and on the other hand, I think in more recent years I've been sneaking a lot of Chinese mythologies into my work. Most recently a play that I've developed with pipeline theater company in the play lab class of 2019 through 2020. One part of the story is based on the legend of the white snake so by a short drop in Chinese. And I think I've become more confident in not trying to explain why I'm including certain legends because I think in the Western culture if you are writing about Greek mythology or if you're writing about Western culture and myths in a piece of pop culture work or a piece of dramatic work nobody really questions you where it's from. And if people want to know more about it they can just Google it or look it up. And as a Chinese person, I feel like we've always felt the need to justify the use of our own myths and our own culture. And I think it's a part of lineage, it's a part of my lineage that I think I don't have to make excuses to include in my work. So if a bunch of the characters in the Western literature can and can be inspired by Thor and Loki we can also include characters that are based by Su Jin or a lot of those or Guanyin, lots of those deities in Asian culture because Asian people and Asian American people there are lots of us. So I think there could be a greater representation that could represent the reality in the pop culture. I'm babbling on a lot, so please stop me. No, you're not, you really made the point. I'm quite inspired by what you just said and also the work you have done no matter it's the wax make one or the towel I think after describe it because I only saw this poster on your website but I think I really get a lot of more cultural elements and also the idea based on the cultural identities from it. So if you are doing something like that in the future please let us know. Yeah, and Xiaoyu, I also saw you have done of the object project and also is in a fringe festival. I can share some images on your website and you can also talk about it because I think it will be a very fascinating discussion different people and artists doing the similar adaptation of the same story series. Sure. So I can talk about the object a little bit. I can also talk about, because I feel some of my work later on could be maybe a nice interesting in addition to everybody what everybody just shared. Very briefly, Liao Zhai was was a collaboration with a group of artists from UCLA and USC directed and adapted by my friend Lu Changting also from CalArts also a theater producer and director. It was, so it was a process where it was a device, device of theater and it was where this group started to collectively think what sparked the inspiration for Puzongling to write these ghost works and mystical figures. And what in relation to a lot of Chinese artists and writers in relation to their political status and their relationship to writing and creating work and what are the feelings of being trapped and being like the also the power of these creatures that are human like but they're not the transforming potential of ghost metamorphosis. So it was a process where it was very interesting for me was the first time that we did a play about Chinese culture, especially ancient culture in English and where we're talking about how to make the language accessible, how to make these characters, they're a region of these character accessible to American audience. But I remember the feedback from some of the audience after the show was like everything was so like there's a layer of understanding there's no need to understand 100% of everything. That's also I think it's a beauty of transcultural or intercultural work that is it draws on something more in common human consciousness that you don't have to understand exactly every words what it's referring to. But I think for me personally in bringing Chinese culture root into my own work, I think it's just something I cannot escape so far going back to the distant new intimacy with my culture with Chinese root. I think there's a lot of relearning about what shaped me and what shaped my environment growing up. So where do I start? Cause I have so much information in my brain. I don't know which one to pick, but so I did last year, last November, I did a work called Little Red Book, Dash or Plural Body, part of the Ret Can You original work festival. And that was a show about Chinese bodies movement. So how does the Chinese body move and what did we learn? Like what did us, our generation learn growing up? What are the very mechanical repetitive body training that we went through? And how does that in a way shape our identity individually and also in relation to collective identity? I think that started from, like that project was sparked from my, sharing a little bit nerdy information of what I was doing at school. So it was coming from a research project about Chinese performance vocabulary since the 1950s, since the 50s. And so each decades, around each decades, some of those new movement language that were being either engineered or being promoted or being like put on like the spotlight dominant performance position like, you know, during the 60s and 70s, the model, revolutionary model opera, and then also from the 50s, as I learned that Chinese, what we consider as Chinese classical dance, Gu Dian Wu and then ethnic dance, Ming Zu Wu were actually contemporary product during that time, so starting from the 50s. And then also Tai Ji, what I thought like the 28th, 28th paradigm Tai Ji that I always thought was the original, traditional form of Tai Ji was also a contemporary product, like a simplified ways to make it more accessible and common for people to practice. And then, you know, also the gymnastics that we're all familiar with eye massage and then school, military training, and all of that. And just think about how these body exercise and the way of how a body move were really a new, like waves and waves of new invention and new creation that heavily formed our growing up, how heavily like constitute of what right now we can see how Chinese bodies move. And so, and also just, they're knowing their relationship to the larger, the marker conversation of, you know, Chinese contemporary political identity and then also knowing that a lot of like Chinese model opera, a revolutionary model opera and Chinese dance, classical dance, ethnic dance, the intention of inventing, part of the intention of inventing these new waves of new ways of movement has something to do with the exploration of national identity. So like what movement can represent the new identity of China, which is like a fascinating process of knowing that and that just rewired my brain in that research process. And so the work that I was doing last year was about making connection to these movement vocabularies and individually unpacking me and other performers, us as a collective, our individual journey, re-learning, re-accessing the childhood memory of learning dances and going through military training and going through gymnastics every morning in high school. And how does that, I think, feel like that was a work where we worked very directly with those symbols with the symbolistic elements of Chinese identity for us and also for other culture that constitute the stereotype of Chinese bodies. We dissect that and just trying to find the physical connection of set aside those ideological judgment, but then like what is it really doing to us? How was I repeating the same movement every morning at 10 a.m. for three years? What did that do to me? What my body learned? And what did it want me to learn? And then now I thought I forgot about that, but no, like none of us forgot about that muscle memory and somatic experience. So then now how do we allow ourselves to have another dialogue with it? And just sharing like an anecdote. One day, because during COVID we're going through individual rehearsal. So there was a filming session at the end where we were creating a green screen figure of someone doing the high school gymnastic with a headless figure. That also was part of it was coming from borrowing Chinese mythical inspiration. So we're filming that and then as we're chatting, as I was chatting with my friends, with my people who were helping with the filming. And then the music just started. Like, I just started and then everyone just automatically started to do the gymnastic without saying like, hey, we should start. It was just a bizarre experience. And that was, yeah, that was something also blabbering about that. I just want to say I totally feel you because I'm also like a creator of physical theater and dance theater. And I've done a devised piece with another Chinese female artist based in New York. And we put part of the gymnastic practices into the devising piece. When I didn't realize when I hear the sound of it and I just remember every single movement and gesture of it, it was so long ago, like tens, decades of my life before. Yeah, so I've never think about it because there was another girl who's from Taiwan and she just don't know anything about it. So it's kind of like a brand new thing to her. But for me, like I can, another Chinese actor and we were like, oh, we can do this. I think it's like we learn how to write a bicycle and we can do that forever. And it's just in other muscle memories. I'm just really glad all of you share so different perspectives of the works you have done because some are more on the language based and speaking spoken language based and being bilingual writers and some of them are more on a physical, physicality and somatic part. But I do feel all of you, like all the things you have shared, the Chinese identity, like the memories of us represent a lot of things of our own culture. No matter what, like we cannot really define what is Chinese identity because the history of it or the contemporary of what is Chinese identity now, like no one can really say what it is. But I really feel it's all rooted in your work and rooted in your creativity, the ideas to create all of these works. And let's move on to another topic because I'm also really interested in how, I think all of you have directed some shows and as a person from China or another country, not in US, I myself have been experiencing some brand new things or some unexpected encounters in rehearsal room. So as a director, when you're directing a rehearsal room, what were your challenges in the rehearsal room when you were directing a show? Yeah, if you have kind of like the story of memories, maybe it's in an early time, there must be some kind of cultural shock in it. Yeah, if you would like to share with us about it. So maybe you guys can have a little more time to think about it. Like maybe I'll start a little bit about my experience. Sometimes when I just started to work in a environment like this, like the words we use in theater is very different from the words we use back in China. So, and my friends who was a theater major in an American college, she just didn't know anything I was talking about in Chinese. It's the same like spiking and like a loading loadout like all this stage left, stage right, but something like the first thing I realized there's such a big difference between theaters in different countries, especially like, I think British also have different, Britain also have different vocabulary in theater. Yeah, but it's just a very tiny anecdote of my experience. If it recall your memory of something you experienced before. I can say something like, you know, it's actually, like weirdly it's in reverse because I didn't learn the terminology in China ever. And so like in 2016, I was invited to direct a play for Shanghai Dramatic Arts Center. And during the rehearsal process, I couldn't find words to say to the actors because I just did not know how to say like heightened moment. I did not know how to say like, you know, do this, do that. And it was, it was quite challenging. And some of the staff thought I was being pretentious, but I was like, I literally do not know the word. Can you tell me what I can describe what it is? But like, you know, in terms of the challenging moments of directing in United States is like, you know, after, you know, you work on production for a while, you will understand there like the variety of the different union rules. You have to like, you know, follow. You cannot just do a lot, you know, as a producer, like I have to deal with union on a daily basis. So like, you know, there are like a lot of rules. And then secondly, I would say not quite Asian actors, but a lot of Caucasian actors, particularly the ones who are a little bit more accomplished, they are very fragile. You have to be very careful in terms of what, how like, if you want to communicate effectively, you have to understand, like as I'm talking about as a director, like also that's me personally, I always, I never want to hurt people's feeling. As a result, I have to learn a lot about who they are and then what kind of culture they come from. I mean, sadly, like it didn't grow up in this country. So like those were a lot of the, like, you know, there were so many moments that I had to learn on the fly. And then realized, you know, it was, you know, words could hurt people at the same time, like, you know, how to effectively communicate what you want is very important to me. Yeah, I totally feel that like the vocabulary and also the way of being a director in Chinese theater and here is totally different, I feel. Yeah, like how, because I think in my understanding in China, most of the theater institutions still have the director-centered system. So everyone is following the guide of the director and may not really have a chance to speak about themselves. Yeah, but here, like, it's a big suppress to me too, like how we have to find a way to talk to everyone, not only because of the language, but I think language is still like very important, but also like how we can really let the actors know what we really want. Yeah, sometimes I also feel the difficulty in it. Yeah, what about the rest of you guys? Do you have any experience in it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Similar to Chuangra, I also did not, well, I didn't do any theater directing or playwriting or either anything really in mainland China. So I don't know any vocabularies in theater that's in Mandarin. And in recent years, I'm actually meeting and making friends with more Chinese theater makers. And when we are having conversations about productions in Chinese, a lot of times I have no idea what you're talking about. So I have to actually learn on the fly and just by translating through the meanings of the words and figure out what does, what do you say when you are trying to say stage manager in Chinese? And then I think the cultural shock that I encountered in directing in America comes more from going into the culture of theater making from a more academic world because I'm very dramaturgically driven and research heavy as a person as well as as an artist. So I actually didn't experience much of the, the desire or need to, well, I also didn't know what you're supposed to behave as a director. And going into directing as a baby artist, I thought I was the worst person in the room. So I was trying to like listen to everybody and talk to everybody with their language. And I remember the very first directing course I took was Daniel Talbot's science specific directing workshop back in 2015, summer of 2015 I think. And I remember one of the best advice. I think I got two pieces of advice from that class. One is as a director, you have to become a translator and you have to speak 100,000 different languages. And I think I have an advantage as a foreigner who spoke a different language to begin with and had that willingness innately to understand everybody and try even harder because there is this assumption that I didn't quite understand them because I spoke a different language. And then the second one is give it all and move on. So I feel like that really helped with my mental health of not taking anything personally because I think there is some kind of philosophical difference between the way Chinese people function as a group versus the way Western folks function as a world. I do think there is more of an erasure of self, selfness with Eastern culture and more of like putting the group ahead of individual like GT, that you're good in, right? But I think what I've encountered in Western culture there is a little shift towards the other side in my opinion in these years. And I really think it's a great thing with the devised theater pieces and the fact that it's becoming less and less director centric in the way we create theater. But there's a lot of the remnants of listening to the box or the individualism of one person being rather more important than the rest. And that does not apply to any one person. That kind of applies as a thinking pattern or an identity. So I think that is a very covert and insidious kind of culture shock that I didn't know I was going to experience. And I think there has been surprising relationship that's being generated from that. And there is also being damages that's being done because of the way I interact with people differently than say a director who was born here. I hope that makes sense somehow. Thank you, Sherry. And what you have said is you're really good in sharing all these ideas you have because I feel it's not only about experience and memories. You also created something out of that. And I kind of want to add on one more question as like based on what I've discussed. So in your time working with an institution, so mostly like white-brown institution because I can say that most of the gatekeepers in American theater is still like white people. And artistic directors in, I think I learned of research is like 90% of the artistic directors in American theaters are still like white people. So have you ever have a moment that it really wants to change something about it? Like no matter it's about the institution or the system or about yourself. Yeah, is there a moment you have a strong awareness of that? There are so many moments. But then also I think there's something common about these moments. Something I've been contemplating on is we all know the term nail gaze. And I'm thinking about if there is a term called, this is by no meaning to stir up any anger or conflict but it just reflect a process on, there's a term called Western gaze that's being put in different kinds of white institution, white-run institutions in relation to the EDI awareness, equity diversity inclusion. And also coming from other cultures inside the internalized Western gaze. It feel something about like I share that, I share those moments, Chorin and Sarin shared about culture shock in the other ways. And I feel my personal experience is also, I think a Chinese theater or Chinese theater process has its own relationship to representation. And that's in the creative process. And also in the kinds of works that we see in relation to representation of characters, relationships and cultural representation. And I think it's a process that we are all learning about it and we're finding our own ways to dissect it and transform it. But I think a lot of things being, specifically for white institution producing, sorry, a white-run producing institution when I'm presenting institution. When they try to present some works that allegedly, it's a representation of a certain height of Chinese theater. I think there's a context that's being missed, the context of translating the work within its original context. So I feel another question about this is, so then what is good Chinese theater in American, according to American white-run institution? Because the language to assess theater and also the experience of performance here and its relation to the cultural and political core is very different from other cultures' taste and need. So I feel I had this conversation with some of my, like the Arvangar theater artists in China who I really admire. And this common question has come again and again and again is a lot of them are hesitate to come to US to present their works. And Europe is more a popular place. This is more of a producing question, but then what is the gap? What is the bridge that could possibly bridge these gaps of a certain scene of Chinese work is being missing, being absent here. Has anything to do with the need of like justifying the diversity that right now it's something, I don't know how to further articulate, but in the need of meeting diversity requirement in all these institutions, is there really, like what are some real support to support aesthetics and work diversity from China and also so many other cultures? I just wanna say I totally agree with you because at the first time I want to create and start this festival is actually because I feel the gap between the American theater and Chinese theater. It was very interesting because so I started to get into theater back in China. And I did not a lot, but some theater works and drops in China. And then I came here and I realized I didn't really know a lot of American theater of American plays back in China because most of the Western play I did or I learned about this European, Eurocentric place is not American modern place. That was a big surprise to me actually because in my mind I think like Western culture in general in a lot of Chinese people's mind it should be American, but when you start to think more deeply about it and actually there's no not a lot of American plays in China or not a lot of Chinese play in America. So then during the quarantine I think maybe the virtual, the cyberspace, the virtual theater can be a way to open the door to both side of the audience because I can feel the hatred not only in like I think not only in the US, but in both of the country it's raising up. And I think all of this is due to the ignorance and also there's no way for the people in American China to know each other. People cannot really see each other's work and which I initially just wanted to start a platform and people in China, all the artists in China can perform their pieces online and people here can also know there's works that people in China, they're also doing it and maybe it's something they have never think about because I totally agree. I always feel the stereotype based expectation from the institutions to me or to me as a Chinese originally from China artist. Yeah, so I really appreciate your sharing about your thoughts and experience in this American institutions. I think, yes, so we have interactive, more fan game. So it's about our ideal life as an artist who is originally from China but now based in America or in the future also based in America. So I wanted everyone to take out a piece of paper and a pen, a pencil or like your phone anyway that draws something to make a cocktail of your ideal artist's life. This is my very poor drawing but you can make a cocktail. I think that's more like what we wanted to taste. So how much of different things you want to pour into this bottle like such as reality and maybe theater making and relationships with the family, with the partner, with your pet or anything you think is worth to pour into this bottle. And yeah, I think it's just a very interesting and easier way that we can share visually what we want in our life. Maybe we don't really have it now but it's something we expect to have in our life. Yeah, don't worry about the drawing because I feel none of you will be worse than me. So if you're ready, you can just maybe show it in front of the screen whenever you're ready. Can I explain it? Yes, definitely. I like to hear every one of you to explain it because like my poor drawing, if I don't say it people will never understand what I'm drawing. And also I know, well, you are doing this creative work and I just want to say like I, it's very interesting. I'm really interested that all of you doing interdisciplinary works. I think this is very unique because as I know most of the theater people are actually more focusing maybe very simply in one direction. It doesn't really mean like only playwriting or directing because I feel theater people have to do a lot of things like design and sometimes directing and also writing. But also I think because Sharon has been doing graphic design and it's very professional and also all the design is, I can also feel a theater maker spirit in the design somehow. Yeah, and also I know Xiao Yue is also a photographer and doing a lot of photography. Yeah, it's just my research. I'm just like sharing informations and interesting observations with other audience about all of you guys. Yeah, so after like I research your website and everything I can find. Yeah, I just feel like in person personally I think all of you share a very special personality as an artist and also different skills and talents in different genres and disciplines of art. It's a very interesting phenomena actually to me. Can I say something? And possibly it's a question that, because I don't know if the rest of you feel this way as well. But so being on an O1 visa means I can't work outside of my discipline, right? And I feel like because of that, a lot of us end up working and putting on a lot of hats not because we genuinely love to do so many things. Because to be honest, every time people like say stuff like how productive I am, I feel more of a sense of pressure than pride because it's, yeah, I would love to go traveling or go get brunches every weekend as opposed to working on three projects at once. But because we don't get paid very well in the industry and we have to kind of get groceries, that's just the reality of things. But it's also very rewarding. Like I'm not complaining about doing work at all. I'm just really glad to you bring this up. Because I didn't really include this question in it because I'm not sure like what is the situation every one of you is facing because it might be different. Yeah, so, but I totally agree with Ran because like the O1 visa, all of us originally from China or other countries we have to obtain. We have to maybe American people or American theater artists will never understand what we are experiencing. Sometimes I feel the same way because I'm also struggling with a visa problem. Yeah, so I think I'm just really want to do something I really like. It's a very, very simple thing to me. I also explain that to my family because I said sometimes I imagine because they will talk to me that back in China. So they said, why are you coming back to China? And I will say that I just really want to do a simple thing and I can get more freedom to do it here. I don't really hate creating arts in China or Chinese artists, but that's the truth that I can have more freedom to decide what I want to do here. But also there's a burden here too. Like Ran just said, you just want to do a simple thing but you have to struggling with your visa. That sounds so ridiculous to me. And you have to make so much effort to obtain it, to tell people you are a very, to show, to brand yourself in a way actually to obtaining the O1 visa. So in a way, I think we're just experiencing a lot more than not only American theater artists, but also because I did applying for an O1 visa as well. And even, I think Chinese artists have a more strict standard to get it than any other country's artists. Yeah, which is a very strong pressure and very big burden to our creativity and our life here. So that's, I will ask you about your cocktail because I kind of want to see how do you want to make a living in that park? Oh my God, you're so professional. Wow. Do you want to share your cocktail first? Yes, we can see it, yeah. Okay, so I made a Mason jar because I live in Brooklyn. So the shell of the jar is family and other relationships. And I'm putting it on top of a coffee. Can't live without it. And it consists of, oh my God, playwriting in the foundation, directing in the torso region and sound design on top. And then there are a few sprigs of thingies on top of there which is traveling, long walks. I like walk to Trader Joe's once a month to get a bottle of wine and baking. I have a theory about how directors would prefer baking to cooking and that's a different conversation. You can come to my talk talk. That's it. I'd love to. Thank you. This is such a great drawing actually. It's a beautiful artwork. And I just really love you put coffee at the bottom and baking on the top of it. It's like you close it and it's something you want to drink and eat. And inside is like the spiritual inspirations and ideas and creative works you want to do. Yeah. Yeah, thank you for that cocktail. It's so interesting. It's so fascinating. And who's next? I cannot wait to see it. Oh, hold on for a second. I have a question to you. Which part do you think is the part to support your life financially? So could you repeat the question? Oh, I think I'm sorry. I'm turning on the wrong view. I think it was just my, I was, yeah, it was a glitch. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, it's the question is for you because I was seeing your image. I would make a living as a director slash baker. I can't make it right now. But if I ever end up having a green card or something, that would be a pretty nice job, a career goal. Yeah. Sorry, so I interrupted you. Yeah, I like to see your cocktail. Oh, not a problem. I was actually just asking that question. Hold on, I have one more box, one more layer to add. Maybe I can go next. Yes. So Choran and Mi Hao, do you want to go first? Which one of you? It's a competition. Maybe Mi Hao, do you want to share your cocktail first? Yeah, I mean, I kind of, it's kind of simple, very simple. And I kind of separated it into... Doing the show as it? Right. Show as her drawing. Practicality and relationships in life and art making. And I've always had like, I've always struggled in something. It may be a good struggle, but I've always found it hard to really separate relationships in life, which is very important to me. And also like your theater, your art. And I feel like those two, I think sometimes that kind of creates a lot of stress because it kind of, your art bleeds into your life and then you can never stop worrying about your art. But also I feel like it's like on the healthy side, like the two informing each other. And so that's why, like, so I kind of just... Wow. And just in this, this practicality of life that's, but then in the center, I think I have found my relationships and art. I think it's very interesting to bring such an interesting picture, you draw it. Because I, yeah, I kind of feel, especially for theater makers because we are not working in a regular working time. Yeah, I have to say that we are not living as what normal people Chorin just mentioned, a life like that. Yeah, because the working hours is different and how we do it is different. So it will be hard for us to separate our life and art making. Yeah, but we have to manage it. It's hard. And Chorin and Xiao Yue, who won't, maybe Xiao Yue, I think you are preparing for it. I am ready. So can you see, this is my cocktail. There's a lot of things. So they're not in order. And I put a stirring thing here. So they will always be in a mix. A flight to get to anywhere at any time is my screen mirrored. I'm not sure. No, we can see it. It's just a little bit blurry, but you can explain it with no where it is. Oh, we can see it now. Firstly, you're a flight ticket to anywhere anytime. This has always been my dream and especially after this year of not being able to travel anywhere. And then tender loving care from, and then also for my loved ones, family and friends. I think this will just always be the core, at core of being a human. And then uninterrupted time for long duration process. This is something I would always dream for my career is being able to have a few months or even a year long time, not having to worry about financial struggles or security and just being allowed to breathe in the process. I'm always a fan for long, long process. And then this is going back to this was inspired by what Sharon was sharing about the reality of being here on a visa. A job that engages me with human contact, in human contact is I've been, this year I've been longing for, you know, like in at least in my childhood time, that those buses that, small buses that travels in between cities and towns, they have someone on the bus selling ticket. I just felt that has been my drink job this entire year to do something has nothing to do with art, nothing to do with, like, you know, trying to get the visa as an artist in theater. I want to do something that really just can't make me be in contact with human. And then this is like a mixture of a lot of things. Food from my childhood hometown, from mom and grandma, and then Chinese medicine, also unapologetically connecting with my ancestry, is something I strive for. And then the layer, the bottom layer is body. Body as, yes. Body is my body and also my family's body and also body as us grounding ourselves in this universe, body in terms of health, in terms of our awareness to body and body's relation to the universe. Yeah. Yeah, I think Ran really, like, shall we really approve that Ran's theory of director's love baking? Yeah. And I'm not a baker, so I'd like to eat what your bakery offered. Yeah. And Chorin. Yeah, so, well, I mean, my drawing probably is worse than Tending's. I made it like, you know, sort of like pretty straightforward. The bottom 30% is relationships and family that has always been the core and, you know, the foundation of my existence, I think. And the next level is food and travel. I think a lot of you guys talked about it and I'm not a baker. Like I cook a lot of dishes. I like to the know of like, you know, what putting into and what coming out of it. And of course, like I do love, I think like, you know, being a person in this world, traveling to different places make you understand other people better and then it makes you a better person because you know, like, there are a lot of different people out there that it's completely different from. You know, have a completely different experience, speak different language and they think differently. This is very important to me. And then like, you know, above that is my artistic work. I only put like me 25%. Recently I've been like, you know, a lot of my friends starting, I don't have a therapist, but like, you know, I have a lot of personal, like, you know, I have like, I feel like I need to take care of myself more. So like, and I'm putting only 25%. And I think like, and it actually makes me more productive that way. And another part of the big artistic work is, I wanna say like, you know, when, in fact, a lot of the artistic directors in the United States are like, you know, you know, for Yangtze, we are small enough. So like, I'm still doing a lot of hands-on programming work, but for a lot of the big institutions, artistic directors are not in charge of artistic side. They are the fundraisers. So like, you know, you have to understand that's why majority of them are old white men because they can talk to people, get the money. I mean, it's a much different world compared to like, you know, running a smaller company in New York, they're a hands-on. Because I know a lot of the artists are struggling out there, like a big part of me in the next couple of years is really trying to figure out how to get more money and pay our artists better. Like, you know, I always pay people, like, you know, the more, you know, the more we get, the more I can offer. And that's very important to me. That's like a big part of my goal. And then on top of it, I want to leave 20%, 25% empty because I feel like, you know, I always don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. Weirdly, I started drawing this bottle. I started like, you know, from the top. I realized, you know, I actually put a top on it and it looks like a cocktail shaker. And I realized, you know, because like, you know, we put in all those ingredients and you always shake it up together. So it's not really, you know, that much like in this pretend percentage, that percentage. And also like, you know, I'm not really a astrology person, but I'm not curious. And I always feel like there's something like up here. I always put it like, you know, you have to like go deep into it. And then you see like, you know, what I've been thinking. And I'm trying to understand myself better, like, you know, and through the work we do and through these kinds of opportunities to meet people. Yeah, that's about it. That's it. It is such an interesting activity, actually. I've never done this before, but it was so great to see a lot of personal, very intimate part of every one of you. Yeah, and I really admire the responsibility Chorong shared to pay artists and data makers better because we, I believe all of us or data makers in the whole world, most of the data makers are not getting paid very generously or even correctly in a way because we have done so much work. And so there have to be people who have to take the responsibility to try to make data makers life better. Yeah, but it's a big question and it's a long way, long journey to go. Yeah, but I'm really happy Chorong bring this up to everyone in front of a screen who is watching it too. Yeah. I think it's already 8.50 and I do have a lot of more questions. Some of them I prepared and some of them is just come from our discussions and all the things you are sharing. But I think the theaters or everything in the US and New York is opening soon. So I'm really looking forward to meet every one of you in person and maybe we can have a baker director, cooking director, a club in person in reality. Yeah, so I'm just really appreciate every one of you attending this opening panel for around 2021. And also there are more like eight shows will go online one after another on YouTube, Twitch, in the overseas platforms and Billy Billy and Xinlong Xinwen and what's the other one? Da Mai, like some three main primary platforms back in China. And all the shows will be both in Chinese and English subtitles and some of them the language is Chinese and some of them are in English. So we'll share more information on our website and our social media in San Facebook and also the Chinese we chat. So yeah, just I also wanted to invite all of you to come to see it online. Thank you everyone and hope to meet every one of you in person. Have a good night. Thank you.