 Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another coordinating call of the M25 movement for Europe featuring progressive ideas you won't hear anywhere else. Today we're continuing our series of sessions where we discuss just one country the political state of play in that country and what the M25 could potentially do there and today that country is Italy. Last time it was Germany I know we said that today would be the UK but the UK will actually be now in two weeks from now. We will start with some brief interventions from coordinating collective members here and then we'll move to the grassroots members in Italy who are joining us on the call today. We're going to keep our interventions, reasonably low if we can so everyone's got the time to speak. Well, reasonably short. And if you out there have got any questions comments rants concerns anything you want to say please put them in the YouTube chat since this is live or read them out potentially between the interventions and put them to the panel. Okay, so let's kick it off with the anise. Thank you Michael. Ciao everyone. Hi to our comrades from Italy joining as well as to all the other members of the, you know, the usual suspects of the CC. Today we're talking about Italy, but it is incumbent upon me upon us, not to neglect the fact that a crime against humanity is being perpetrated as we speak. In the land of Palestine, the coverage of what's going on there across Europe, let alone the world is vulgar and part of the crime committed in the Middle East. Wherever you look, whether it's the BBC or any of our channels, you see reports on number of deaths of missiles, a technical account of events without any mention of the fact that this is the result of an ongoing establishment of a state of apartheid, both in the occupied territories, and and that is very important in the land of what's called Israel proper, the post for 1948 borders. Imagine if this was South Africa, back in the era of apartheid and reports from Soweto concentrated on violence by black youths. Some reports on the violence of the police without any mention of apartheid that I mean, of course, it was happening back then, because there were many friends of the apartheid regime in the West that wanted to silence the truth. The truth that remains silent is a guilty truth. And those who indulge in it knowingly, including our governments and including the media are part of the problem. They are part of the assault on humanity and humanism. And one final thing, if anybody cares about, if a message to those who are worried about Hamas and Islamists, there can be no better gift to extremists on either side than the apartheid policies, which legitimize violence. I just wanted to make to make this point. Also, just move to a completely different destruction from Italy, before we go straight into Italy. In less than an hour at seven o'clock Central European time, let me invite all of you and everybody who's been watching to tune in to our meta launch premiere. Let me remind you is DM 25s and Merit 25s new center for post capitalist civilization. The launch is happening in less than an hour. I'm very keen to watch it because I know how much work has gone into it. We have messages from all the usual comrades from Nam Chomsky, Ken Loach, Naomi Klein, the whole thing. This is a very important institution that we are creating. It's our own research and cultural center for producing ideas and a new aesthetic that concerns the post capitalist era, which has already begun, which has begun in a dystopic way, but we hope that it's going to become more utopian in the future. A few words about Italy. I'm very much forward listening to you, so I'm not going to talk about Italy. Let me simply mention that some time ago, the coordinated collective that is a slot put together a number of questionnaires one for each country in Europe, Central important countries like Italy, but actually for most of the countries in Europe. The purpose of which purpose of that that questionnaire being to start a process of crowdsourcing ideas regarding what needs to be done in different countries. I am very, very pleased to announce that I've recently read the long answer I got from Italian comrades. This questionnaire has been answered collectively. I have been very impressed by the high caliber of the answers that we got. It doesn't matter whether one agrees with everything or disagrees with some of the things. It's a fantastic foundation on which to build a manifesto, a deem 25 manifesto for Italy. And it's a very good foundation on which to build our next steps in Italy, the rebuilding of deem 25 in Italy. With that, I'm going to shut up and pass the button on to Michael and again, because we're keen to listen to you folks as to what you think our next steps should be in Italy, in terms of manifesto, in terms of the NC, in terms of the movement, in other words, in terms of the electoral wing, in terms of how do we go about changing Italy. Thanks, Janice. I'll just bring in Patricia and then we'll move to the Italy members. Patricia, you had a few words. Yes, thank you, Magran. Hi, everyone. Let me welcome you once again. And just keep going straight to the point, because in order to leave space to all other intervention, I would say just a few words. Italy is, of course, a key country for geographical reason, political reason and economical reason in the European Union. Now, deem 25 policies are more than ever, in my opinion, but I hope not only in my opinion, updated and useful for all of us. We should be again in the public debate in Italy, even because a drug government has no opposition on the left. And I don't want to leave this privilege only to Meloni and all the company of Meloni and to Raj. We are now ready to face the big challenge we have in our country. First of all, the job one is going to expire in a few months, the free sea on layoffs, that means unemployment would be much more than ever. And then inequalities because of, of course, all the pandemic crisis, we are true. So I want to thank you. The big job the Italian electoral wing have done in the last one year and a half, because of course, we had a, how we could say, a very complex period. After the last European election, we, we did mistakes, of course, but we had the force, thanks to the electoral wings also to create a big, a big force in the territory. We have many DSC all around Italy. So this is a big force and we should address now this force for the challenge I have mentioned. So let's give the floor to all the intervention and see together how we can address all we have worked together and we have done. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Patricia. Okay, Antonella. Let's start with you. I think you're muted, Antonella, unfortunately. Sorry. I have, I've wrote some thought just to be quick. So the COVID has not only caused more than 123,000 deaths, but in one year it has resulted in one million more individuals living in poverty. The increase is frightening. And the total number of individuals who are struggling in putting together lunch and dinner is now about five million point six. Quite a little bit less than 10% of the population. The citizen income introduced by the government of Lega and movement five start has too many conditions and has to and has not alleviated poverty. Our welfare system has shown all its weaknesses. And in fact, a reform of the social protection system has been announced for next summer by the mean Labor Minister of Democratic Party. Many poor workers suffered during pandemic for because short term contract or no contract at all vanished during the blockage of pandemic and left them without protections, especially in catering tourism, entertainment and cultural sector. Young people and women have paid the highest price in terms of rising unemployment and small and micro enterprises, which are the backbone of the country in economic term finds themselves much deeper in debt and undercapitalized after months of blockage. Some hundreds of self employed workers and micro enterprises will not restart because the public measure to support the economy have only partially covered their fixed cost. But the new normality designed by the recovery and resilient plan is not different than a more generous business as usual. It allocated only 40% of plan to a so called green revolution, a totally misleading name, far less than France and Germany in percentage, the bulk of the funds go to high speed transport and large scale infrastructure projects. Blue and gray hydrogen. There are plans to introduce administrative simplification of environmental impact assessment, which many fear will speed up a country over over building process. So, there is a lack of industrial policy measure to a campaign to take the reconversion of productive sector such as intensive farming and single use plastic sector. That are produced in Italy for 40% of Europe production. There is a lack of or insufficient funding for basic research in universities, schools and health public service. So in face of all these opposition is muted as Patricia said, a cultural operation is needed to awaken people. I'm just close to the conclusion and as a PNC and in agreement with the electoral wing, we believe that it's necessary to come together in summer in a workshop to discuss new economic narrative and to design together. A transformative action. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry about that. Next up, Alessandra. Hi, hi everyone. And first of all, I'm very thankful to Yarnis for appreciating the hard work that has been done on the questionnaire by the electoral wing and the Italian comrades. And next, I'd like to speak about the topical issues as a southerner, because I'm from Naples, and I want to touch the fact that the recovery plan hasn't given the south of Italy enough guarantees to develop. And now at his open the convergence with the between the south and the center and the north, the region of the center and the north. The national recovery plan has allocated 82 billion euro, but the plan has missed to make explicit the role of the south in its main missions with particularly reference to the green transition and also the blue, the blue economy. In fact, the many Mediterranean region DC, as in Campania where I was born, DC is the main player. And here, a third of global maritime trade passes through each year, and warming is occurring at a rate of 20% faster than the global global average. This is due to the fact that to the climate climate change and the human activities that severely impact the Mediterranean region. And projects indicates that by 2050 more plastic will be swimming in the sea than fish. In this perspective, I'd like to point out that many scientists see the blue economy as a response that can generate a positive long term impact on the health of the seas, of the ocean, and especially of the Mediterranean sea, on which many regions of Italy are located. And the blue economy aims to eliminate any emissions that are harmful to the planet and revolutionizing production systems through biomeases. So, I think that has the intent to fight should aim towards a prosperous and peaceful Mediterranean region in which people can enjoy a high quality of life. And 25 can tackle these issues that can be achieved through strong involvement of stakeholders, cooperation, solidarity, equity, and participator government. So, with my pay attention to the to the sea as a player and to the sea, as plays were many inhabitants of Italy live. Thank you for the tension. Thank you, Alessandro, we have a question from the chat that maybe someone would like to answer. How high is the anti European spirit in Italy right now. Next speaker is Melita. Hi, hello everyone, it's very nice to meet you all. I don't know, I have to address the question in chat or no maybe I don't know. As you like, as you like well actually I'd like to say a few words about a few comments about the political situation in Italy. As Patricia mentioned before, the only real alternative to the next government is meloni. There are a few progressive forces in Italy but they're not well structured and not well organized. So, this is why I think that the M25 could be could become a beacon for the progressive landscape. And to address the question in chat, in the chat, I think Italy is a very conservative country. And right now the anti Europe spirit, I would say, not strong, but there's a bit of you know our skepticism in Italy right now. Always, you know, remembering that Italy is one of the founder members of the European Union. So, but still this is why I think the M25 could work. Because the M25 has very specific features, it's a pan-European movement, it's a transnational movement, and it has very tight links with the progressive international. So this is why I think that if well played, it could become a beacon, as I said before, and it could become a leader with all the other progressive forces. At this point actually I have to say I'm a bit baffled and I'd like to have some information by the CC. I, I heard that we are not going to take part in the conference of the future of Europe. And not that I think that the results are going to, you know, to, I don't have high hopes for the results, the institutional results I think are going to be low key and low profile, but I think we could exploit it. I'd like just to add, you know, some, some, some information later, if not right now. But yes, if well played, I think the M25 has, you know, a bright future in Italy. Thank you very much. Thank you, Milita. Next up Ludovico, because Nicolos, I think not with us yet, so Ludovico can go next. Thank you. Thank you very much. I mean, I will very briefly. I would like to thank Yanis for the appreciation for the work that went into writing. Basically, what we believe is a foundation for moving towards a platform for the Italian, the, the party of the identified in Italy, kind of drawing on previous previous speeches, I would like to say that Italy is not only in a position to have a government that is an expression of a parliamentary majority that is not kind of like was not supported by a democratic vote. But it's also a moment in which many parties within that majority and outside that majority have one degree or another suspended their own internal accountability processes. We have a system where there's close to no position to this government, but there's also close to no way of having one's voice heard and of kind of ensuring accountability. And to some extent that we wanted to counter that internally creating a participatory process that started with a group of authors for the writing of the program. Many of them, they are here today. We want to take that not as a as a conclusion of the process of writing of the program itself, but rather as a starting point, which departed from the wealth of material that our movement has already in many policy areas. For example, technological sovereignty, the New Deal for Europe Green New Deal, foreign policy and so forth. We also highlighted some elements of both the policies and the questionnaire that probably will require specific zooming in for example the issue of infrastructures and utilities, the issue of university, both in terms of governance and of recruitment of the staff and for example the issue of anti mafia that is extremely important, both because of the history of Italy and because of the or previous experiences of activism and organizations that our movement can interface itself with. We are now confronted with a situation where kind of the unprecedented amount of resources that the recovery plan represents, even with the problems of, you know, overwhelming amount of them deriving from loans rather than grants, and it being written by a private organizations rather than following democratic processes, but in the content itself of this recovery plan, we are confronted now with an incredible display of disaster capitalism, like the idea that this amount of resources that is to some extent unprecedented in the history of Italy in terms of macroeconomic resources are used largely to favor market and private actors rather than furthering state intervention in the economy and the possibility to really design an economy that works for the public rather than for private profit. So, our effort was towards and it will be towards writing the program of 25 study as to some extent a counter to this and to many of the problems that the political management of the crisis as engendered. And so on this, we really want to open up the participatory project behind the enrichment of the content of the program that we sent. And yeah, we would like maybe and on this probably other comrades will expand on, we would like this to form the basis of potentially in person meetings where to kind of like then open up these documents to the public and make them the basis of our future action in the Italian streets and towns and cities. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ludovico I'm getting tons of requests to speak here. So if I can ask you all again to keep your interventions down to three minutes max, and then everyone will get the chance to speak. Next up, we've got very Lisa. Thank you very much. I'll be very quick because I want to leave the floor to other comrades. Firstly, I want to thank pianist for his appreciation and also for recalling Palestine situations and I just wanted to say that tomorrow I will be in a demonstration for Palestine with the flag. Going to the issues of our meeting, I would like to say just that I totally agree with the Melita said about the potential DM has in Italy. And I think that we could concentrate on some really few questions, which are the economical issues, of course. And we need to connect the European level with the national one, of course, which because it is in our nature. But just to hit the mantra of the balance and we have to remember that in the USA, the state invested $5,000 million, sorry, trillion, $5,000 trillion to face the crisis, while in the European Union, the recovery fund is just 7.50 million euros. So I think that this is our starting point and then we've got to go through the national recovery resilience plan in Italy, which is incredible that we have the world resilience in a public policy because it simply means that we can stand anything that we can face anything we can go home without changing anything. And this is, of course, not our horizon. And then we we've got to face the vaccine campaign. And we've heard Biden talking about the waving of patents. But the truth, in my opinion, is that they are going to make a lot of discussion of talks without going nowhere. And instead, they could just use the compulsory licenses, which are already provided by the treats. So this could be a contingent solution and this could be a proposal we can spread. And the deeper solution is in another time and in another level of international discussion. To answer to the question Yanis said, so how do we do this work in Italy? I think that we need to organize much more than we are. And I thank Ludovico, because he broke a sort of taboo when he talked about the party in Italy. And I think that this is what we are. We need to concentrate our efforts now. I just say that in Italy, we suffer of at least 15 years of disappointment towards political representation towards political representatives. And I feel that Italian people really expect to have a new symbol in which to believe it in which to believe into and to vote. This is the need. Thank you. Thank you very Lisa Michele. Yes, thanks Meran and thanks everyone. Yes, I think really as Veralisa and Ludovico were saying now the time is mature to try to start a process deep in the Italian society in the suffering Italian society to launch this DN 25 party that we already propose in December 2019 before the pandemic and the necessity then became the necessity of this kind of political subjectivity. This novelty in Italy became, I think, day after day during the pandemic. As something that almost all our membership and beyond is is feeling as something we have really to do. And I think regarding the analysis, social analysis, political analysis, the comments already said many things. So I'm not going to repeat repeat what I am going to do, even if I'm not a lawyer like Veralisa, it's like to read something that I think many Italian comrades, they know by heart, any citizen has the right to freely establish parties to contribute to the determining national policy through democratic processes. This is the article 49 of the Italian Constitution. And I wanted to read it because party is a it's a it's a it's a bad word, you know, especially in it's perceived as a bad word in the Italian cultural diffuse common sense, political and cultural common sense. And this is one of the reasons also why happened is terrible. I don't know this integration of left political forces in Italy because all became also the the editors of the greatest in terms of, I don't know, at least the numbers communist party in in in Europe. Not considered Russian. I mean, after Europe because Russia is part of Europe. Because they become all like electoral committees of few leaders, few leaders that at the end became leaders without without I don't want to say army because it's not good. So sometime the army metaphor with politics especially electoral politics, it works, even we are, I think many of us more disciple of Anna and the idea to open political spaces, not just struggle in the relation of forces, but also open new type of political spaces. But that's the point I mean, there are a lot of leaders without people, right without neither not only without electoral consensus or political following, but also without now without activists. And it's all done in television basically television squares. So now, I think this is important also for us. Are we able to build up a political mass subjectivity, which is not under the threat of being the idea money on the way we are doing politics. And this is also about the sovereignty technology as we are doing policy now we are like I'm in direct play stream we are exploiting exploiting YouTube and Facebook all the instruments that financial capital is made, conjoining this with innovation made by the state as our friend Mariana also brought the Italian public. And of course we have to act these instruments to change the structure. So one important thing is also to give a new, a new way of interpreting article one or Italian Constitution. Italy is a democratic republic founded on labor. Now also labor by trade unions is often too traditionally interpreted and to a too often many categories of workers were left out by representation of trade unions and there is also a problem there. How represent the workers on that the progress international made a gigantic job on creating the make Amazon pay campaign that as you maybe have you have read was followed also by some category of our big trade union biggest trade union and other trade unions in Italy. I'm sorry to cut you off if you can conclude sooner because we've got loads of people coming up after you. I'm closing the other thing is surviving sovereignty belongs to the people, and is exercised by the people in the forms within the limits of the Constitution. This is the second power article one of Italian Constitution. Also there, I think we need to create a new paradigm where the sovereignty is not only interpreted by the parliament, but it's created by a series of assemblies, cities and assemblies people assembly call it as you want new form of participate in the democracy that has as the end as let's say leaders of a broader movement social movement. We are able to build up to give representation participation that participation to all the suffering people all the people. They have not voice in this moment. So to really realize the article free that is probably the most important Italian Constitution all cities and I've ever equal social dignity and equal right before the law without discrimination and is the duty of the Republic to remove the obstacle for the real for the real enforcement of these principles. Thank you. Next up, Pierre, let's see if we can keep the three minute limit please. Hello, all camera, all friends, all gathering people, young people. I am Peter Stefani from Bologna now in wintertime and alias, Stefania Wolf in radio and Facebook. As Stefania Wolf, I put in my first issue, the, the knowledge of the important policies that Mela 25, my, I don't know, Mela 25, I'm sorry. I'm a little passionate is working in opposition in parliament and I want to take I wanted to take this voice in Italy that was not really very new. So thanks all. And thanks a lot to Yanni, because you introduce a horrible dramatic problem. The middle. The struggle of of Palestine. The struggle of Colombia. The struggle of international issues that we have to follow. And the struggle also in Italy. In Bologna, you know, it's a workshop, political very important workshop with those are our small collective. We work at a lot. We are doing a lot of manifestation. Yesterday for Colombia to tomorrow for, for a Palestinian. We are. Yes, we said, though, a center of struggle. I was thinking something now. Look, we were fighting and supporting yesterday in the main square net uno Bologna, the, the struggle of the women of Colombia. So as a Colombia that are raped are killed for a fiscal reform and for the health, health policy. And now tomorrow we will be together in solidarity with the people, the Palestinian people that is fighting for the land for the houses. We will fight on Saturday against our neoliberal patriarch patriarch policy of the drug of drug of dragon cell. We will fight with the police of the dragon cell that is near and so nice with the Salvini policy. We won't fight. I will finish. We won't fight for going drinking. You understand me. We won't fight for drinking. Nice beer and I apparently very expensive. This is now the situation dramatic in Italy. The with the not also now but before it was also but now we have this dragon neoliberal way that is very dangerous for us all but for the women is something horrible. And we are working a lot and now I have to finish also with the women. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry to rush you off but we've got 15 minutes because we've got another event that starts and we've got five more people to speak. So next up. Thank you. And thank you for your passion. Fabrizio. Okay. I am a researcher associated with the National Research Council. I work in the field of health. There are three aspects I would like to highlight the subject of health. One vaccine. Health is a common good for real life being in between the covid must be eradicated in our county on the world. We need to get the European Union to come out of this closer on vaccine. The vaccine is financed by public grants. It's possible to follow the Biden position. For me, it's important that DM 25 must pass the European Union to stop the protection of vaccine patents. Two, national health system in European country. The health situation in different European country is too different. Health is public good and therefore uniformity of care in needs across European country. For me, it's important that DM quickly define and manifesto. It is the guide to give obligation to various European country so that the national health system are public and universal. Some media justice. It is archived by many association. Health needs to depend and extend. For example, the well-being is defined by World Health Organization. Second, expenditure of health must never follow the gold rule. Health spending is not current expenditure. It is investment in life and therefore in this component. Health care must be person-centered and not about treating of a clinical problem. Health care is a world health. It should be made compulsory to comply with indicator by number of citizens. For example, hospital bed, physician, intensive care, social and the service and all. Mauricio, if I can ask you to please conclude soon because we've got some other speakers and we've got now 13 minutes left of this call. Go for it. For the last point is the Global Health Summit 20 May room. We submit to approve the principle of declaration of the room to prevent future global disease for a joint committee to build a new, sustainable world. It's important. DM must present together with other organizations. Thank you. Thank you Fabricio Andrea. Your concise intervention starts now. Okay. Thank you. Hello everyone. Very briefly. First of all, let me say something about Europe. I think it's a shame that Europe has failed once again this time to manage the pandemic. We haven't a common public vaccine. Europe has no response to the pandemic by creating, for example, a solid research infrastructure for this virus and the possibility, the possible next one. It's a shame what we see in Middle East, as Yanis said at the very beginning. It's a shame the absence of fair and humanitarian migration policy while the horrors of Lesbos and Tzarkin continues and citizens of the world continue to arrive, for example, here in Italy in Lampedusa. It's for that that we must fight for a better democratic Europe altogether with the DM 25. Regarding Italy, I can only say one thing. The Italians have already trusted and hope in the outsider politics. I mean the self-proclaimed outsider of member of the five stars movement, which have failed miserably. So we can present ourselves in Italy and say, Hi guys, we are the new outsiders. Instead, I'm convinced that we have to present ourselves with a few innovative and radical political proposals and open a big debate in our country. I mean, for example, for some labor market proposals about working time and lifetime about the universal basic income about the right to disconnect from digital devices facing all the new problems with a new approach, possibly a revolutionary approach. Thank you for the possibility. Thank you Andrea Luke. Good evening everybody want to say that. Thanks for just letting me have my two or three minutes here and I agree with very much of what's been said already a share. Very, most of the concerns here. And obviously what's behind most of the problems that have been emphasized this evening has been that. I think we'd mostly agree on the structure of the political economy but not only that but I think the structure of our movements are ourselves, you know, our own movements. And I think they, I think we could take heed to give a bit more attention to, to the structure or our own movements and how we, how we communicate with with with popular audiences more and the public in general. And on that note, I know Antonella and I were started a conversation over the winter. In terms of vision, not only for our movements were for the economy. And, of course, on the heels of course of Janice spoke as well I was I was very happy to get Michael Albert in touch with Janice and have them start a conversation. And in terms of that regarding that we were hoping just wanted to make a quick comment on the proposed workshop this summer on post capital is vision. And so, you know, the question would be well why and why now, why, why, why would this be an ample time to to come out with something like that and I just you know obviously in recent years with the new generations coming up for post cold war. There was a very well known Gannett poll from a few years ago that showed even younger people in North America were so much more open, look more favorably on socialism than they did capitalism, whatever that socialism. Luke sorry if I could ask you to conclude because we're really cutting it fine. I apologize to cut you off go. No problem. So I just just to the focus on that proposed workshop on the vision that we need. And I think there needs to be a much more emphasis placed on it and I think we need to ask ourselves much more. First of all, if we're trying to win new society and if we are what what that's going to look like. I think we need to place a lot more emphasis on that and I hope I hope that's done in the coming period. Thank you. Thank you Luke apologies for the pressure Dario if you could do it very very fast 30 seconds or so because we're really running out of time and then go for it. Thank you. Thank you. I'm very happy to be here and to be there at the same time. I just wanted to make a know my appreciation to what Ludovico and Veralisa said before about searching and call to calling to action, especially the anti mafia civil society. I refer to a lot of professionals and categories and institutions as well as public and private. We have to call for action, all those people which are, I believe hundreds of thousands of middle class let's call it, but they are able I think to promote or to be the next leading generation in Europe and in Italy. Thank you. Thank you Dario Rosemary you had a response to one of the questions and then we'll conclude with the anise go for it. Of the CC about our relationship to the future of Europe conference and the European constituent assembly task force. Of course, we've been working on the European Constitution as a citizen led European Constitution from the beginning of dm 25 as many of you will know. But the task force is about to send out a questionnaire, which will include a question, the question that she asked, what should be this relationship. Our concerns are three fold. Who should participate in a citizen led EU Constitution. Who should set the agenda. And what should some of the content be. So our 20 questions will also include include how should we relate to a future Europe conference that I have to say is not at the top of people's minds in vast swathes of the European public. So what was just said by Dario is very interesting. I think we should not rely on middle classes and NGOs and informed people who will be involved in the future of Europe conference process for a democratization of this whole process. We have to ask ourselves, how are we going to involve all the people who have been so oppressed and excluded and suffered under the pandemic. The EU is already dictated the agenda. So there's no question of asking people what agenda they actually want. They have four citizens assemblies as a kind of disguise in university towns to say that they're going to be representing the people's voice. But actually, they should be offering funds to every major town and city in Europe to organize their own citizens assembly on what they would like to see from a European Constitution and from the future of Europe. So I think we've got plenty of work to do, but it is work to do to show what the alternative really is and what the priorities really should be. Thank you for a fascinating discussion on Italy, by the way, fascinating. Thank you, Rosemary. Yanis. Rosemary, you said it all about the importance of democratizing a process that sounds wonderful. That which was instituted this conference for the future of Europe. So as not to have a conference for the future of Europe. Remember how it happened. It was a proposal by Emmanuel Macron. And I can tell you, I can seriously tell you can put my hand on my heart and tell you that he stole this from them. And I know that because he told me it was his idea to take the idea from from DM and completely to destroy it to use it as a fig leaf for the fact that they are not putting the citizens at the center of the process of transforming the European Union. DM's position has always been that the citizens assemblies would be driving institutional change in what they're doing is they're using a so called of get together for everybody to feel good about the fact that nothing is going to happen. And that citizens are not going to be empowered in the same way that the initiatives, the European citizens initiatives, you know, you gather one million votes and then they're put in a show on a show or in a box. And that's it. It's forgotten. It's a whole legitimizing process of not changing anything. Whereas we're here to change things. Okay, now, down to the business. Look, today, we had the first meeting, we were not going to discuss everything and we were not going to write a manifesto amongst us. It was an important opportunity, firstly, to herald the beginning of a new relationship between the CC and activists of DM Italia to thank all of you for the work that went into these wonderful answers to the questioner. And to start the process. So I have a concrete proposal as we like to say in DM 25, and it is this, that now we put out your answers as they are without any interventions from the CC, put them out for consultation to say to our members. Okay, here are questions. Here are the collective answers we received from members of DM Italia. What do people think generally across the movement, not just from Italy, but from everywhere, regarding the situation in Italy, regarding the answers to the questions that are pertinent to Italy. And once we get all the data in all the data and all the responses to agree on a path that would lead to the writing of a manifesto. I think we should also within the next few weeks, at most, find a way of agreeing to a date in the future for a DM Italia assembly where important decisions will be made or proposals will be put to the rest of the movement so that we can have an old member vote to decide what we're going to do. We have as part of the discussion to distinguish what the movement does as opposed to what an electoral wing does. And last but not least comrades, we need a leadership team, you know, because in the end, you know, we, if we have an electoral wing if we manage to make a splash to work with others and other movements across Italy in the context of common campaigns, somebody is going to have to represent us in the media to speak for them to defy in Italy. And I'm not saying that we have to create this leadership team now, but have it in your mind that the two go together. The organizational part, the writing of the manifesto and the creation of a leadership team and remember we are a pan European movement. And that will be something that will be decided by everybody in the M25 those inside of Italy and outside of Italy. Thank you, Janice, and that concludes our call today. We're sorry for putting our foot on the gas at the end of the call but we have a second call which is coming up and you out there can also tune into it. That's the launch of meta, the new research and cultural center of the M25 there is a link in the YouTube chat for that. So our coordinating collective calls. The next one will be a fortnight from now where we'll be discussing the UK, and that will be at the old time of 7pm CET. So thank you again to everyone here to our colleagues in the team 25 in Italy. And thank you out there for tuning in. See you in two weeks. Let me put the link. Go for it. But if you put it in the zoom chat, we'll lose it. Okay, just let me say that, you know, just go into into YouTube and just type meta M E T a center for post up civilization and join the fun.