 We're finally doing e-fap again Yeah, wait. This is your sixth beginning, right? That's how this is the beginning of the year six arc Man, what crazy adventures will we have who knows yep e-fap number one of year six We got to make this a real banger or else they'll all leave. Yeah, this is this is the pilot episode for the brand new reboot Run by Disney People worried about it, but they shouldn't be Disney great Disney controls all the seasons of all the television. That's why it's all so good. Yay That impeccable eye for quality So I'm We're premiering a soccer episode one people are like I really want to say what episode four It's like yeah, cuz everyone said it's good Do you think episode four of a soak is good? You're retarded. I mean It's already been spoken about a couple of the streams anyway, so it's not like there's some kind of huge reveal but the main thing is It'll race Stevens and they came out these performance out anyway And what exactly is so great about the episode. It's hard to say at that point Yeah, it has non-sensical combat wastes a lot of time people like nobody does anything intelligent. I Have no idea what the stakes are. We've introduced Amazing things to the amazing capabilities Involving the temporal nature of reality. Who knows what will happen I can't wait to see the Starwars fix the problems of whatever the hell they're going through Lonnie's gonna save Star Wars guys. It's gonna be pretty good. He's he's oh, yeah It's true. He did and boy. He did such a good job at doing that. Oh boy I think everybody would concede Mando seasons one two and three with Boba Fett and Kenobi being Added to Star Wars has helped it dramatically Most people say like when I think of great Star Wars, I think of the OT and I think of all the TV shows think Definitely not fodder content that is to be forgotten and most people kind of remember what happened in Mando season one Nope, they can't but I can and it was never good Could you say it? Random film talk of you seen all of these wonderful shows Hello, and I have seen Mando season one and season two and Then I watched Kenobi through the fat movies and I have no interest in watching a soka Or Boba Fett Should I ask how how does a soka compared to the others? um I'm gonna say that by the end of this it might be like the worst Jesus when we're done. It might actually be the worst It it's it's proudly introducing the multiverse So it that's terrifying prospect. It might be the worst thing that they've made As in like alternate timelines kind of thing. I don't I don't know Yeah, from one of her the soka is gonna view her Stealth on different paths in the world between worlds and then she's gonna realize that her fate was always to be Where she is now or some bullshit? Oh It's funny there's like fan speculation on what's gonna happen and every one of the ones I've read I'm like, oh god I hope not. Oh god. I hope not. Oh god. I hope I mean I don't know why there would be any cause to speculate in a way that's gonna improve the story You know so funny because as much as Star Wars sucks. It's like at least it doesn't have multiverse stuff But it's like way way way way We're now way Multiverse right now Yep, and it's doing so well with Marvel stuff. Why not introduce it to a Star Wars? So we can do everything for Star Wars that it did for Marvel. Hooray Didn't nuts This is probably all the damage that came from stuff like no way home What we're talking about when it came out It's like wrong lessons being learned everyone's like let's get these multiverses going everybody And you know a lot of them is still cranking up at the point of everyone being incredibly exhausted of them It's like maybe don't maybe don't the fact that everybody's exhausted of multiverse stuff a couple of years into the trend Meanwhile, there's probably still a whole bunch of things in production Multiverse major component You know models walk in for the next four years We so many writers that are like, what do you mean they're tired of it already? We've got loads to show them like yeah, they've been so great so far They've been amazing. That's why people aren't tired of them at all because they're so good Yeah, that's why people will soon go into the theater to watch Marvel movies In record numbers I haven't seen the flash the new one. Does that have a multiverse does that in trying to do the same thing? That's the one that's made all this discourse That's the one that people think that it killed audience investment in a multiverse Well, I guess the audience that was still left that went to watch it. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah Progressively killing it one film at a time Because I'm kind of wondering like there's there's a whole bunch of reasons why theoretically using a multiverse as a storytelling device Would be something that you may want to do because it allows for the cameos and the nostalgia and it allows for different versions of projects to Beyond going at the same time like you can have the Robert Pattinson Batman I don't know if that's having a sequel at the same time as however many other Batman, which means that you have more projects So theoretically if more of them are hits than misses, but then that doesn't work when you're spending 300 million dollars on each miss So the interesting thing about that as a proposition is that I don't think that that's the motivation For the most part. I don't think Marvel has any interest at all in creating a continuity beyond Their mainline MCU. I think everything will always revolve around their MCU and Whatever stuff that they take from the multiverse of like existing properties like Fox and Sony They'll all try and incorporate it and have it all revolve around their MCU Like that's probably what Deadpool 3 is gonna do right is integrate like the Fox stuff in there But it all revolves around like the mainline Marvel universe rather than creating alternate continuities that they can like Fire multiple shots and see what works. Yeah, I saw a room of the Batman is an anomaly I'd say yeah, I was supposed to like set up the next Avengers film Deadpool 3 and I was like how weird is that? Deadpool movie set up Avengers Well, I mean the fact of the matter is that like Deadpool is Probably like more profitable at this point than the majority of our MCU projects We're about to find out just how profitable right like in the same way that we are with pretty much everything There's there'll be fears for all of it. There'll be fears for Batman when he pops out part two Especially with brand potential brand confusion and everything. Well, let's say it caps out at 700 million I feel like that's that's gonna be like a mountain. It's like well You had a good run there Matt, but we're gonna gonna commit with Ravenbold Batman now When the Dark Knight and the Dark Knight rides is met over a billion dollars over 10 years ago 700 million ain't fantastic. It's not terrible, but it's not it's not amazing either. I mean not when you're spending I mean how many hundreds of millions? Cheaper than a lot of these other films. I think yeah, man with like 150 million Yeah, which is which I compared to the other ones. It's cheap. That's yeah. It was I just looked it up It's the Batman was 200 million which is gonna be cheaper, but it's still you know Damn, yeah Well Yeah I'm hyper worried about Deadpool 3. I mean, it's probably gonna have like crazy time travel shit in it What did you guys think of Deadpool 2 by the way because I rewatched that fairly recently? So the thing is I remember really liking it, but I haven't seen this since it came out same Okay, fair because I mean there's obviously time travel shenanigans in that but it's condensed to it's not multiverse and whether they Because you've got the whole post credits sequence where he you know goes backwards and forwards in time a whole bunch And it could be that maybe they're gonna use that gimmick to open the multiverse I don't know if they've said that they're not gonna do that or anything, but I Don't I don't know why it's me. Yeah They could use I guess it's more so that I imagine that three is gonna revolve entirely around it Whereas two more. So just sets up the scenario Yeah, two kind of uses it almost like the Terminator does yeah kind of Until you get to the you know the post credits in the year would be like hyper I'm travel it'll probably have crazy like things happening in it because it's not gonna take itself very seriously Which the thing is all Marvel like the fact that the director of the marvels is like, you know The thing that make our movies stand out is that it doesn't take itself very seriously That it's like a sort of fun movie and just have that statement really yeah, and you're like, oh, oh Shit then Well, just which one wasn't trying to be the funny goofy like movie, you know, which which Marvel movie I guess secret invasion wasn't trying to be that maybe that's why they said that to train distance themselves from it Yeah, we're not like secret invasion the one that we all agree sucks At least we all did agree Yeah, the whole world is like yeah, okay Eternals was also one of the ones that took itself seriously and nobody liked it either But I mean nobody liked Ant-Man That wasn't taking itself too seriously Almost yeah But anyway welcome to e-fab episode 251 wow one out of 50 episode toward the next Anniversary I'm gonna keep pointing out the second quarter towards the thousand is he's just go by they go And yeah, it's still kind of it feels weird six years the year six feels that feels like a chongas number I think seven is gonna feel like a real big chongas number and what better way To celebrate the return than to have a guest that has been requested again and again and again It's good to finally have you sir. This is for everybody doesn't know random film talk Hello to e-fab officially, I guess Yes, well, uh, yeah, thank you for inviting me and I guess thank you to everyone who has asked you to invite me because I'm still pretty new relatively to this whole youtuber thing and And yeah, well on Tuesday like three days time is gonna be one year from when I released my first rings of power video Which is essentially what caused my channel to grow so I'm I'm very very new to this whole thing and I'm kind of learning as I go Well, uh, I think you're doing pretty well if someone who's pretty new to it That rings of power is given a lot of people potential careers. It is just that good, you know Everyone couldn't stop talking about how great it was Yeah, you've uh, you tackled the Hobbit after that sort of right Yeah, I'm still in the process of doing it because the way that I mean I didn't plan to do this from the start But the way I've found that structuring videos makes the most sense is to do one on each episode or each film in The case of the Hobbit and then to do like a final roundup at the end where I cover everything knowing like perfect information about the whole You know, I don't need to know what comes next because I've seen the whole thing now Yeah, yeah, um, so that I'm still working on for the Hobbit and Part of part of what I've done today actually as I was checking out a couple of the fan edits of the Hobbit just to see What differences they what differences they make and there's one that I watched that cuts out 51% of the footage and it's Ironically, it's pretty fantastic Some of the fan edits, you know So I'm gonna watch a couple more but Because I think that a lot of them are gonna chop chop out different parts But there is a lot that you can remove without changing how coherent the film is Yeah, and you want after Barbie, why would you do that? Yes, sorry, I'm a bad person for that. I was Well, yeah, I wasn't planning on doing that same with avatar to actually I did an avatar to video Which was nowhere near as long But I did avatar to and Barbie just because I went to the cinema and saw them and was like Yeah, I probably have enough to say about this to warrant a video and then my notes just kind of Kept getting longer and longer and I thought, you know what it might not be Uh, Tolkien related but I'm gonna make a video and I'm gonna say what I want to say so plus I hate women So there is that that makes it easy It does. Yes. It's uh, that's the hidden motive What have you got in the pipeline? What are you interested in? What do you what do you think needs to be taken down a peg or perhaps raised up? Do you need praises? so Well, this one might be controversial because I know that you more have said that you don't like this rags and fringy I'm not sure but the first video essay that I did was about three years ago When I had like 50 subs or whatever and that was on blade runner 2049 Yeah, um, so I really really like that film um That is the one video essay. I guess that I've done that's positive um And I don't know why I be Oh, of course, of course. Um as for what's going to come after the final hobbit video I don't know but I think I have decided that it's going to be positive So one option is the lord of the rings. Um, I could try and approach that in a similar way to how I've done rings of power in the hobbit Um, another option is arcane because obviously arcane is going to have just just that. Yeah Yeah, it's going to have more seasons, which means that theoretically if it I mean I I really really really hope that it maintains the level of quality Yeah, we all do Yeah, but if it if it doesn't for some reason then There's I'm going to have a lot to say about that anyway And I feel like if there is any chance of me having a lot to say about season two I might want to um unless I come up with a better idea. I might want to cover season one first Um apart from that I don't know so at the moment my brain is just in full hobbit mode Well, you got a exciting prospects ahead and Um, well and and and look at that look at you you could be doing all those kinds of things Instead you've been dragged on a 10 billion hour podcast talk about art fundamentals. Oh, yeah horrifying But at least that's true of checking out a video, you know, that's that's exciting. Who knows what it'll take us But before then it is worth talking about The vinyl figures Absolutely Guys, there's only four days and 23 hours and 38 minutes and 23 seconds left Go go go go do it. If you run out of time, they're gone forever. This is it's a limited time run after this Yes, absolutely all the ones that aren't purchased will explode in the warehouse killing millions So you have to make sure that you buy them because after four days go by They're gone forever. You will never be able to get your hands on them They'll get onto the black market. They will be The the prices will be exorbitant because they're limited time and unique and amazing and cool and very awesome So you better buy them now They come in real neat packages and They can stand on a shelf on a desk On the floor if you really want to judge people too much in terms of what they end up doing with them You know, it's really up to you. That's the beauty of private property. I guess Yeah, because you're you're at e-fap. We we are pro-private property You can own your own figure. You can own your own private property in the comfort of your own home today So by now Yes, by now they will be gone after four days. You need to get them If you were thinking about it if you will hold them off for a while now is the time if you want to grab one Yes, you've got less than five days left. They'll be gone forever And everyone else what what's gonna happen is you're gonna see them behind all of your favorite youtubers whether it's Well, not the three of us, right? You'll just see us in person. So it's different But when you go and you see as when you see Drinker when you see all those guys who have all their super cool stuff behind them. Look at us We're neat. We're awesome. We know what we're talking about. You'll be seeing them there staring at you And you'll be asking yourself Fool that I was Anybody who has like just a you know plain background. It's like what are they an expert in paint? I don't know like that seems to be what you're trying to apply I'm gonna fill it with figures. Otherwise, how is anyone gonna know And as we all are going to learn paint on a wall is is the really good art Yes, that's that's gonna be relevant. Actually. Yeah, damn. I didn't even think about that I was just sort of moving but there it goes, you know Our imitates life or life imitates art, whichever both fuck it both Oh, yes, they are there Only under five days remaining Yeah Today though, we're gonna be checking out a video cold. Oh, I accidentally killed my own watch together. Whoops But something I didn't mean it. I just did it I'm sure you didn't mean it, but nevertheless, it's been done I was too busy buying even more of those incredible vinyl figures because he knows that in four days five days They will be gone forever he knows That procrastination is not the name of the game not today Maybe another day it will be but today ironically it is not the name of the day Uh, there's only three people in the watch together. Who's holding out? Hmm. Hmm. Well, I'm uh I think it was random. Uh, no, I'm in No, no, it's all right All right. He got it. He got it. We're good. My screen must have been lying to me Yeah, he got he got in guys. Don't worry. We he was Lost his little icon popped in and he was lying. No, that's not true. I don't have an icon That's not true. That's impossible Because of It's just your your devious lies and slander. That's what we are now not me. Look at my face. I'm not deviant Well, actually I do haven't been I've I've picked my especially devious face. Um, but it's just an act I'm just cheeky I'm just cheeky. It's called you're wrong about modern art and The reason that I was made aware of it was because it's a response in part to moist criticals controversial opinions on art Um, and I was like, I wonder what his controversial bit is at art because he's not one for controversial opinions He he plays it safe safe safe safe safe So he's a safe boy. He said something and then it pissed off this guy who's like it's time to learn you about modern art So before we hit play We know the meme everyone knows the meme You had art and then modern art was like this There's bin on the floor and it was like what? No, literally it was just a bin on the floor. That's modern art. Mm-hmm. So it was like, hmm What's this what's going on and then someone said that's bad and then someone else went well, what is bad? And then they they were like, whoa, and that's where we're at pretty much Yes, whoa So It summarized it real well Uh, I I guess You know, we can we could talk more or we could let this man take it away. It's really up to you guys Well, what would you um, what would you propose? We discuss before we start with a title like you're wrong about modern art Maybe we should put out our opinions on modern art and what that means to us and what we think about modern art We've all I assume got a story where we went and saw some modern art and we were embarrassed to be human Um, that's all that's all happened. Uh, I've told mine several times. I believe ringy has two Uh, yeah, just a big canvas that was just red I was talking with my father the other day About this that and the other thing and my father is an architect And he had mentioned to me that one of the things that you have to do as an architect There's a lot of city codes and ordinances and rules for if you erect a building Or if you add an addition to an existing structure There needs to be a certain amount of work that you put into Maintaining the style that is already present Um within the local area. For instance, there's a lovely town called deadwood up in I believe it's south South dakota I think it's a south dakota went there once and it's like this old west town That's where calamity jane and wild bill hickock are buried and it's where he got shot. It's not a west town It's really cool, but it's modernized and it's a bit touristy, but it really has that vibe However, um, one of the main streets of deadwood, which isn't a very big town There is this ugly Gray box That's just this modern building that is constructed for pure utility and probably pure ugliness And it sits in the middle of all of these buildings from the 1800s and early 1900s that have this Gorgeous brick and rustic signs and it's it's marvelous looking town except for this one horrific building And that to me is what comes to my mind when I think about modern art Because architecture is a strong part of art and I really hate and we all know my opinion on painting bricks But I really hate this uh, how modern art comes through in the buildings because buildings are things that we leave for Future generations typically. I don't like the idea of saddling those to come after us with these horrific ugly minimalist gray and white boxes called buildings Um, what was the question? The is the funny the words modern art don't really like that that that concept doesn't Evoke what the words are supposed to mean anymore. Just art. That's yeah, it's like no it is like shitty Like oh, okay. Are you an artist or are you a modern artist? And then people be like, whoa, whoa, do you don't like anything from it? It's like no, no, no, no I don't want to be too hyperbolic. Um, have you guys weeks through once in a while? You guys heard of that one, um, I wish I had the name of it, but I assume you guys know about the It's a king one the the robot that is constantly cleaning up its own leaking Oh the blood the blood Yes, I do Okay, for you to love it. Um, I probably would like him Yeah, it was here's an image of it. Um, the the construct itself is just a machine that's constantly Mopping or rather, you know, just pushing back all the blood that's coming out of itself Over oil blood whatever and uh, you know, it's there's so much to draw out of this you watch it as it It's just desperately trying to get the blood back in slash oil and it just keeps coming back out Um, I think it ran for like a year or something and yeah People just watched it and they would think about what this thing evokes and I understand that and I appreciate it and there's work that went into the creation of this thing and Holy moly moves. It's striking. I mean the blood on the floor this concept of you know, are we is that what we are? We're constantly trying to clean up our own messes is life futile All sorts of things you could draw from it and that's like, oh, that's interesting. That's neat One must imagine the robot happy One must imagine the room. Oh and we um, and all that stuff, uh, we watched a harmful opinions video Mahler and I did where he brought up a lot of cool Uh modern art things of that nature. Yeah, so that's something worth mentioning before this as well. I uh, uh, Turns out this video had been responded to by someone called harmful opinions of it It's going to be one of those like a name. I've not heard since the before times he's um Uh, I think the most well-known thing he did was calling out candid. I would assume I'm not actually sure I don't want to summarize his career My mind is big thing I suppose. Um always a lad with very interesting perspectives and uh, he talks about Uh, this video and how he's got some favorite more what would be called modern artists versus not and that um You know the value and the blah blah blah and and obviously he had opinions about this video as well Um, I guess I would say yeah, I'd recommend it. I recommend the channel Um, you're not going to find you agree with him on everything But hopefully you'll find that he's got insightful povs on a lot of things. I like the way he makes argument I like the cut of his jib. Yes Might it be uh, worth while to mention before we start that we have a we have a What I would say is a more broader definition of art than a lot of people have Uh, do we I think we're I I think we're certainly watching this video. There are a lot of people who would say that there are certain movies that aren't art Oh, that sort of respect, you know, are they being hyperbolic when they say that or do you think that's for real? I don't I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't know. This isn't even art. Like do you think they mean it or Sometimes I do. Yeah, sometimes I think they do sometimes For example, if you're ringing sometimes they do mean it Someone might say quantum mania is not art and you're like why and it's like because it was made strictly for money It has no artistic like integrity or merit and it's it's it's it's the opposite of what we should be striving for in the in the industry or aspect or skill level of art or something and you'd be like Okay, but loads of people like even if that was true. I'm not sure I buy that as an argument But loads of people worked really hard on that film Uh, a lot of artists as well it's I think it would be impossible to call Anyone film that if if the requirement is as long as one person felt artistic and inspired when they were making something as a part of it I guess the the point being that uh The way that I and I presume you guys would approach it is it's bad art. It isn't that it's not art It is creative expression bad art. Well, yeah, and now you've unraveled Well, I mean the web is open Again nice on my own perceived, you know, like my own perceptions of reality my own subjective experience of existence I do like that. Yeah, all right leave me alone. Yeah, you know, they sit there with art not art You're like, here's the problem with that you explain it all you're like, let me present an alternative good art bad art You're like, wait, you think that makes things easier You like Why I I'd like to think so. Yeah, it's like how do you have it in bad? People seem to really not like it when we present to them an idea that they believe in they just don't use those words for it Yeah, it is I have a feeling that in this video and it happens all the time all the fucking time with people we cover on efap People will say no, no, no, there's not there's not good art in bad art It's just about x y z different interpretation of it But then they'll say this movie sucks. This movie's great This statue's great. This statue's horrible. This music stinks and they'll they'll always do it They'll say it all the time and then they'll say there's no such thing as good and bad art Well, the thing is like if we if we want to just That's fine. We can I could just change the words to you know art. I like an art I dislike Yeah, that that'd be the one that's the most agree. No one's gonna criticize you for that one. Sure We're run with that then. It's not that I would say that something isn't odd. I just said no boring There you go. We got to do more than that today. We can't just say it's about art We like and all we don't like bye everybody. Did it did it? Well, I I think it's I think it's interesting to dive into why what rags just point out why everybody ultimately feels pretty comfortable In one way or another the best example Is when you know in their own subjective experience of art, you know, I believe there was a chap We covered slash interacted with a long time ago who said to me in a call that there's you can't Can't call the last Jedi bad because there's not really any such thing Like it's really down to the individual a lot and then I said, okay, what about the room? He's like, oh, we all know the room is bad Like I feel like that breaks the entire system Yeah I'll just you can't just say that I guess the thing is to me is like I don't feel like saying that I think something is good or bad you know, obviously The More contentious when you say that you think something's bad Like devalues something as a form of creative expression. I mean it is creative expression ultimately But like dismissing something is not art Can be a little bit more like who all right calm down So like if you want to go Sorry go on fringy were you? Oh, no, no, that's it. Sorry. Um, yeah I was going to say like you could go really extreme with it and Like what would you guys consider to be something that under no circumstances is art? Because I'm kind of of the opinion that anything as long as like the the viewer or the person perceiving the art Quote on quote art if they're able to draw something out of it then that makes it artistic So even like nothing like literally silence I think someone may have mentioned this before John Cage Who the composer who wrote a piece of music that is I think it's called like four minutes and 33 seconds It's something like that and it's just silence every bar is just a rest So you get the orchestra up on stage he counts them in and then they just do nothing for four minutes and 33 seconds um if someone Quote on quote here's that and is able to draw some kind of meaning out of that Then silence is art. I believe that the better way to probably put that is that they experience it because That is going to create a sense in us if you turn up to an orchestra and they don't play any music That's going to create something. However, I do think that most people consider that below the bar for qualification of like You know creating something you win an award for that like Sure, but if the point if the point of the piece is to make a commentary on what you just described Then would that not be enough meaning for it to be considered artistic? Um, I don't I don't know if I would want to cancel it out from being considered artistic In fact, it's it's a pretty good hypothetical once you decide that Or if you decide that art has to be intended It can't be accidental. I would say that I would say that art needs to be either Purposeful or sufficiently subconscious in the sense that if you are We've had this conversation. I remember before we might this might take a while if we Well, it was like a year ago. It's time again But but yeah, I guess to wrap it up if you are um, uh Taking a photograph of something that you find meaningful or interesting is an artistic thing But if you accidentally drop a camera and it just lands and snaps a photo of just whatever it was front of it That is not art Yeah, so I disagree if you drop a camera and then take a photo The second that you recognize something in there that you believe has like some sort of value to you Then I would say that's different. Um, I'd say that's different because if you see something And you pull some sort of meaning or something out of it and you're just an observer watching it I don't think that makes it art. That just means that you are able to place something out of it so So like you drop a camera and then it snaps a pain like a picture accidentally And then you look at it and you're like, oh my god, this is like beautiful No matter and let's say it's like genuinely like everybody on the planet thinks is beautiful But because you didn't mean to do that. It's not art. It's not art Is it is a mountain art? No, I do not think that a mountain is art unless a mountain was created purposefully By some sufficiently capable agent in order to express themselves. No, but a naturally occurring mountain is not art So if if you were to believe in god, then that would make the mountain art um I mean it would have to right because that would be like intention That well the reason why I'm asking is because that's a justification that a lot of religious people will give Um, you know the natural beauty of our world could not possibly have been the result of Particles smashing into each other at random is is the argument if people if people make that argument in their mind I I suppose they would consider that art Yes, I would though Out of curiosity Fringy, what is absolutely not art as a random film talk mentioned? So, uh I would say that like nature as it exists like without some sort of perception of it and uh some Input I don't know if I'd say that like existence itself is art Like so I don't know if I would say that a mountain is art in that it exists because obviously I believe that it just occurred as a process naturally and that like How do you draw the difference between that and the random photo from the drop camera? Um I I think the I think that um, there were some amounts of uh, I think that's something I would say for that is that there were some Amount of even if it's like I'm not I'm not sure how I want to square away accidents in terms of art, you know Like I'm not sure that I want to because how do we how do we deal with like, you know, happy accidents or something Well, of course, yeah, uh an ai generated like hair Um simulations Or you drop a bunch of balls in a in a pachinko machine like and and what they end up Maybe they roll paintballs and where they end up splatting down does that count as art or not that too much randomness to now count I assume it still counts White sorry, could you say that last part again? So like you throw a bunch of paintballs into a machine that bounces them around on pins And then wherever they exit they splat down onto a piece of paper Whatever image they create is now yours, right? Even though like your your artistic imagery even though there's not much intention between you and the final image I I get what you mean Well, it's possible to be intentionally random You can you can say I'm going to create a painting by, you know, randomly throwing paint brushes at the wall Yes, it's going to be random, but the intent was there. Mm-hmm. I figure there's just uh an example of how you can Create some gray areas I mean would you make the argument by virtue of you even having the camera in your hand that even if you dropped it that you could You know attach some broader intent I think that this the the hypothetical was to try and highlight zero intent on the creation of the image Yes, like a literal accident. There was no conscious effort made in That process whereas even like my my floor for art is very is fucking subterranean But there's that huge chunk at the bottom. That's virtually worthless, but technically qualifies um, so like a A 10 year old being told by their parents you need to sweep the kitchen It's part of your chores the child sweeping the floor is an act of you know in a way it's an act of their expressing themselves Technically is that art sure? For the purposes of most discussion would I call that artistic? No, it's it's basically Worthless unless there's some more conscious process and making the sweeping of the floor some sort of expression of who they are And I think that whatever Framing you you create or limits any kind of boxing in of any of this the extremes always come up and they're difficult to deal with some The tough and then people get really mad as well about it I think people really seem to be unwilling to bite a lot of bullets when it comes to the artistic discussion And once you just once you just like close your eyes and let it wash over you and you're like yeah sweeping the floor is artistic whatever Yeah, like at that point the definitions Kind of loses some of its use even though technically speaking I would I think I would agree that the kid sweeping his kitchen is A form of art. It's just not really useful definition at that point It's kind of funny how most people might resist that right up until the kid at a boredom You know hits two dots and a smile and makes a little face You're like, oh, well, that's definitely I mean, I would even say that if the you know parents come down and they're like, holy shit. You did a really good job This looks amazing like they they you could arguably consider that to be art because Of the parents I'm saying that like to get it to a point where people can understand it easier is just One stroke in the pile of dust Someone would be like, that's just that's just dusting whatever but as soon as you make a face out of it They're like, oh, I understand now. He's like, yeah, there you go Right, but then it's just how far do you want to push it in terms of a In terms of what what it means is a process art is a process or a product. So the cleaning is not art What are you all about? Yeah, so I saw I saw somebody say that like a lamp post isn't art, which I hate to break it to you But it absolutely is yeah, you need to check out some more lamp posts So this is the thing you got a when you're just like, no, that's not art. You need to chill out We do this all the time go expand the mines because a lot of people You would say like designing a car. Yes, there's like artistic albums, but it's not it wouldn't be art. It's for function And it's like what are you talking about? A car is obviously an absolutely art During a recent trip Over to South Carolina We went up a bit about an hour's worth to a North Carolina transportation museum Where there used to be a Norfolk Southern like railway station and and they had a whole bunch of old cars out there from the 40s 50s 60s and the trains of all eras and It makes me kind of lament how a lot of cars now just look bland and boring and shit When cars used to look really cool Man, I'm not sure I grew without I feel like cars still look really cool Um some do but I think that there was a certain aesthetic that cars used to have That was very striking and prominent that I think we for the most part lost I think the vast majority of vehicles now are very bland non distinct And uninteresting So it's it's interesting because you might have like there are going to be a lot of cars that are built Not a lot of cars, but there are cars that are built for Uh form not form for a practicality overall, you know, land speed record formula one cars all that kind of thing um You don't apart from like the color that you put on it There isn't really any thought given to what it may look like because all you care about is whether it can do the thing That you're building it to do and most cars A lot of most cars you see on the road a lot of thought is put into their aesthetic But I feel like the aesthetic that is uh agreed upon and decided upon in uh focused towards making is not an aesthetic that is anything nearly as interesting or striking or um Pleasant as what we used to have when we say that's reflected in uh buildings as well Yes, I think in a way it is. Uh, I think with Interiors of buildings as well, uh, my parents watch uh hd tv shows and so sometimes when i'm over there I I kind of watch them and a lot of these shows have very very Cookie cutter kinds of concepts for the interiors of buildings things are very Structured and organized and flat a lot of grays blacks and whites a lot of boxes straight lines very kind of sterile kind of looks um And I think that's often reflected in the way that we Design a lot of buildings now as well. Um, I think we see that reflected in The painting of brick and the biggest horrors when they like Add on a modern thing to an older thing like it's like like an infected thing that's poking out of it An addition that's modern. Yeah, and a lot of places will they will literally not allow you to do that Um, if you had I know once my parents did an addition for a courthouse Uh, and the courthouse was it was like from the I think 40s or something because it was brick I had columns and it looked really nice and then yeah exactly like that, you know McDonald's look like Too clean and sterile. They look too many buildings look like like Penitentiaries and shanitariums They don't look like places where human beings with hopes and dreams and expressions and creativity live They're just dull and boring and bland and they're so copy-paste But it's art still or no It's art. Yeah. Yeah, it just I hate it Yeah, which pushes I mean if we you know, it depends on which time you guys want to spend on talking about what would it qualify I don't know. It's the more difficult Because this is a 43 minute video. Well, the difficult follow-up question is um What would make it good or bad and is that even possible? Yeah I uh, that is a That is a question that I don't think can be answered in any short amount of time Like even if you would just if it ejects storytelling like for a minute and if you're just talking like McDonald's Um, the the image of the McDonald's that they put in like why is one better than the other? I feel like you could talk about that all day Yeah, uh, well you could because I don't I don't even like dislike the way that mcdonald's looks now I think it's fine to decent even I think it looks if if it wasn't to mcdonald's and it was like maybe a bank Or an insurance office. I'd be like, okay, but I don't know. I feel like we've lost something I would happily concede it evokes Oppression to an extent Uh, yeah, unity at all costs. This is like this is the building. I imagine that the nazi headquarters the mcdonald's I just see the big red swastikas draped over the front and the sides I would love it if like more banks and like estate agents and everything looked like the uh, the before photo for mcdonald's That would make them you know making more fun more approachable insurance is fun Yeah, and they have a little uh playground outside Yeah, um, there's no reason why we can't tangent when we're into the video Why don't we uh, why don't we start her up? See see what this this uh, this artwork has to offer us, eh? I would love to do that Very well. I am going to hit the play button now and I will listen and interrupt Intermittently I like the banana duct tape wall. Oh, that's not a good start. Oh, no the banana duct tape ball is shit It's a yes. Yes I'm happy to see that, but yeah, I would be like this I just did the lame I do not find it appealing I mean, I mean this then gets into how much people are value Like perceived hard work when it comes to art, which I would say most people value a lot The oh god this one's this one's complicated because if we were all doing a presentation in like let's say college or whatever and You know, everyone's working really hard. Some guy comes in late a drunk He's been partying. He hasn't done any work and he's got a banana And he puts it on the wall and goes There we are. And then like the teacher's like this is incredible. The guy's like, yeah Awesome I know we're only Three seconds into the video. Um, so the um what I was gonna ask I hope this won't take too long and maybe it's something that this guy's gonna cover But the the banana on the wall has intent if you remove the intent and and we're just talking Um, you know, someone has dropped the banana peel on the ground and then the other people in the art exhibit Oh, like You know, they think it's a piece of art, but it no longer has the intent Does that affect whether or not you guys would consider it to be artistic? I think well, I don't think that art and artistic are necessarily the same People can if if someone dropped the banana and in the hoity-toity fancy modern art exhibition And everyone's like, oh my gosh, it means so much. I can't believe oh my gosh Wow, this is so unsafe for go-karting and then everyone was staring at it and they're thinking it's amazing The banana would not be art, but that doesn't mean people are by no means Excluded from being able to draw out whatever, you know Meanings and things that they want to from something in the same way that I've been moved to tears by landscapes I don't consider the landscapes like actually being out there the mountains as if I don't consider that art But it is powerful and striking and moving that makes me think about things in my place in the world and so You would agree that it becomes art with intentional framing like the pain of it. Yes with intentional framing. I agree it becomes art. Yes Or if you were to take a photo of the landscape Yes, okay I've mentioned it before I shall again that one of my most memorable and favorite moments of all time In in life was moving through many rooms in a big old gallery exhibitiony thing Plenty of awesome things plenty of things made me think and between two rooms a little room fire extinguisher in the corner Five people watching it looking at it very curious thinking about it And I was looking at it for a little bit and then I was like, I don't I don't think that's uh I think that's just a fire extinguisher. I think that is actually just a fire extinguisher in the floor like in the corner that's meant there for safety and Um, that one's probably one of the most interesting because it was placed there for the intention of safety not for art But then it became became perceived as as art is that yeah Uh, how what do you reckon on that one rags? How you feeling? Hmm I mean, do you think a fire? Like maybe that might be a good place to start as a fire extinguisher art Yes It has artistic qualities if that Wow, so I think people would find the lettering right at least I think tech probably technically yes, but hardly barely Old fashioned red fire extinguisher. Yeah, I would say that and that's an interesting aesthetic I think people would have to admit that there's some technically yes As far as it is exists as art in regards to being in a gallery um, I'm wondering if I consider the Pure utility based placement of an object in a building for safety code as being um art I don't think so, but possibly I'd say by default. No, but it could be So like I see some people disagree and at that point if it was like You would have to seriously like unpack what we like because the idea of its utility not art There's a like a carers utility, but everybody would agree that like a car is is odd, right? Or maybe they don't That's the thing I would hope that they would that that should be pretty clear that a lot of work goes into making the ugly ass cars of today Yeah, and not even if we're talking about like the most beautiful cars if you're just talking about like a Honda Civic or something It's like there's obviously a design like a thought process behind the way that it looks I mean, do you think like do people need to know that when the thing was created? Let's say the fire extinguisher in this case It was a guy who was like, oh, I love the way that this is placed And oh, I gotta put this here so that I wanted to be eye-catching But I also don't want to be off-putting and this needs to be here Oh, there's a bit, you know, like a guy who's clearly into it and enjoying it and Consider it's an art making for when then it'll print sound completes and they have the fire extinguisher Would then people be like, okay. Yeah, okay, fine But seeing it in its you know in and of itself knowing that it's meant to just put out fires for safety It's not it's not like anything It's not the same as a canvas that has a painting on it And it's like I know But I mean arguably there are pieces of it that certainly were when it was Created so yeah, a lot of people are trying to go with them I wouldn't hang a car in my living room But like a car is still odd whether or not I would hang it on my wall doesn't like yeah There's plenty of artistic works that I would not hang in my living room Yeah The banana and tape shit just seems to me like it's it's it's almost the realization of hypothetical Which in a way is a good thing In and of itself for that and and someone could be like, so is it not Making you is provoking thoughts and feelings in you because I've already concluded its art Now someone could try and fight me on whether or not I think it's worthwhile or good Or which is a different conversation completely Yeah But it feels like those conversations are often blurred that by virtue of you saying that it is art that it has some implied like transcendental Value that can never be like, you know or that it puts on the same level as I don't know like a baroque painting or something Or like an impressionist painting Which uh, I don't know There's there's an inherent thing in people I think to be like you don't deserve to be respected in the same way banana But I mean that Put on art simply for existing You know I'll say it that's I that's pretty cool art and then when that guy came up and tell me why I ate the banana That's even more art. I used to hate I mean, uh, it's even more art. How is it even more odd? I guess I guess he's saying that you had the art and now you have another Moment that is Another art. I don't know is eating things art Is eating it like performance art or something? I guess it can be That's another one The the bank see shredding his His picture after it got sold at an auction or something the banana guiding Okay, the banana guy just reminded me. Um, I don't know how this fact is into the art discussion because I'm not sure I would Know Well, yeah, I don't know if I would call it out, but so obviously a bank see painting is art It just it's a clear-cut example of art as possible. Um, it gets sold at an auction for a A lot of money. I can't remember how much and the then, you know Once the hammer is struck and a deal is made then the frame starts making a noise and it starts shredding the Painting because he had rigged the frame to shred the painting as soon as it got sold Um, do they know the active? Oh, oh, it was the person who bought it did not know that and there was some obviously legal issues Yeah, there were legal issues there definitely, but I I don't know enough about it to say what they were Um, the reason why I mentioned that is because it's similar to the guy eating the banana in that it Raises the question of is the destruction of something that is artistic art I mean, I guess it depends on whether we want to say it's like performance And everybody would agree that performances are when it comes to like a theater play or you know acting on music Yes Yeah, so I think I think the instinctive reaction would be no, of course not, but then I don't know like Try and separate Or anybody thinking about this we're not talking about justifying the action. That's a whole different conversation. Like Conversation for sure. Yeah You guys are spirally out of control. It's super easy to follow. You're gonna be fine. Don't worry about it You mentioned the banana But like people who Like people who make these kind of videos and they say things like that You're just a coward if you say something like that and you don't tell me why he's like Why is the banana cool because you're wrong? It's shit. That's what the whole video is about rags Yeah, maybe he'll explain it Maybe that was his hook. Maybe he's gonna explain it It's just hard. He's hooked me. You don't know Modern art. I used to think it was too simple too easy. It's not like the Mona Lisa I'd mentioned before one for me was uh Was uh, I went to an art gallery and it had a whole bunch of different like I had, you know Older paintings newer paintings and everything like different different uh Genres and then it was just like a big red canvas and I really didn't like it bugged me when I saw that there Especially knowing that they paid a lot of money for it. There's like, yeah, that's You know, I think that will be Raised in this video as well. Um Again, I think I think a lot of it does I think a lot of people do feel like man That one took like a lot of hard work and that one if it was like it didn't and that's bullshit Yeah, that's that's one of the easiest ways for people to understand Uh, a sort of like kinship and being like, yeah, that thing's bad that thing's bad And they both be like because of how shit it is because of how much effort it didn't take because much talent It didn't take right. But yeah, yeah, like it's super easy to agree on um then Because like uh, the one the thing for me wasn't just seeing because it was a giant Square or rectangle or whatever and it was a big red splat. It was it was enormous the one thing I found impressive about it was how huge it was but Uh, the thing that really cinched it was the teachers were staring at it I remember asking them like what's what's the dealio? And they were struggling to explain anything. They were like, it's it's It's interesting when that's the case, right? It feels like you grasp it I because I remember there were a lot of conversations that we because I was part of a school trip and uh The the kind of things that the person who was taking us on the guide was like saying I just got the distinct feeling of like man, I feel like you're reaching. I feel like you're I feel like yeah made all of this up I feel like what's the difference and actually draw this from the creation If someone were to argue that like our interpretations and viewpoints of a thing are what almost Defines whether or not it could be considered at least from that person. What if they're lying? What are they making it up? What if they don't even know that they're making it up as in like they They're adding a bunch of their own shit onto it like does that devalue the art itself I think it's something that reg said is like somebody can look at something and absolutely extract a lot of meaning from it And value from it and they can even extract value from it that was not intended or that wasn't even there Um But like whether or not that makes it art the fact that you extracted something from it It depends. Is it is it like a is it based on the viewer? Is it based on the creator as like a definition? I think uh For some something pretty much anything can be artistic if it's from the subject's perspective But that's not something that's not actually a part of that thing. It requires a subject Whereas I think that something being art is intrinsic to that object In the creation process But so they can exist separately there was like no I remember we had this conversation when we talked about this like a year ago But let's say I don't know you just take a painting like Mona Lisa or whatever and then everybody doesn't exist anymore Is that still art? Yes, you don't know the lack of context A knowledge if all if all agents and the cosmos disappeared All the things that we consider art would still be art Um, that wouldn't go away the ability to appreciate those things would not exist It wouldn't be capable. It'd be like color and things of that nature But those things would remain in my uh, in my opinion. I'd be happy to settle on It's not like whether or not it is art is not determined on whether or not someone can see it or experience it would be based on the Like intention in the first place basically Yeah, knowing as well that we can't always know what the intention was the creation was for example If we found out I think we did this as well in the future if Mona Lisa was Actually constructed because a bunch of paint randomly fell onto like a page in the future and they sent it back in time Just to see what people would think about it and they said oh it was made by this guy Yeah, definitely that guy Like it was so Sorry, I was going to say it also can't uh necessarily be dependent on people being around to perceive it because uh like if If people just went extinct Things that are art are going to continue to be art even though there's no one there to view them Yeah, which is hence there seems to be um A line between like what we call the experience of the viewer and what it means to the object for the viewer to have that experience Um, because of course, I think a lot of people even non-religious people might think like The landscapes that make you feel a lot like I think I think they have a natural inclination to say it's art when uh I think it can but because what I want to avoid I want to avoid making it so that it's everything. I want to you know, you don't want to have that You want to make the categories useful to some extent and if it gets brought now to everything then it's like okay cool awesome Like that's very productive I'd have to be argue down from everything Because my gut is is telling me that if you can find art if you can find meaning in something I'm trying to be careful with my words if you can find meaning in something or if artistic intent was put into something if either of those um qualities are present within a thing Then I'd be comfortable calling it art Both of them I would say One of them is necessary Uh, because now I'm thinking about let's say that there's a painting and I don't know the wizard says I don't know if someone made this But there's there's a less than there's a more than zero percent chance that somebody didn't make this that this painting that You get the distinct impression that somebody created it. You know, it could have just happened randomly like What like how do we how do we feel about that? Like I don't know again. You just take some painting Uh, and then and then the wizard says there is a greater than zero percent chance that this occurred naturally You trying to highlight the issue of like if I adore let's just take um any of my favorite art of all time And then you turn out, you know, it wasn't created by an intentional author or anything It's random. It came together randomly What does that do for you and your because I would argue like a change is nothing about what I draw out of it myself But then yeah, would it be considered? Maybe not unless I was mistaken. Yeah because I think we could all agree that you can draw like because I don't know how do we How do we feel about nature as art? Is that a is that a yes or a no? We already covered it, don't we? No, well, yeah, but I uh ran and what do you what do you make of like art? He said yes, so I my I would have to be argued down from yes Um, because I I think I think yes, even if there is no like I'm not religious So we're not going to like throw that into over complicated things, but um, if it is just a completely natural thing like the example of the Random number generator that came up with the Mona Lisa or whatever it was That doesn't change the fact that if I see artistic merit in it Then it is bad that would be way more based meanwhile if Soma were randomly Created I would happily say that uh, I don't I don't have as much of an emotional attachment to labeling it art But it wouldn't change how much I draw out of it for me Like and the meaning I get out of it in the same way that it wouldn't Seeing a mountain like rags mentioned like it might make you ponder about your Uh position in the universe that doesn't if someone said yeah, but it's not art. It's like, okay Yeah, I think some meaning is the art being able to take artistic like things out of it I think those are two, uh, uh completely different things that are actually in no way rely on one another Well, so this would be the it seems like we've hit bedrock then it's the uh one side of this would be It's the creation the context the creation that decides whether or not it's art The other argument would be it's what it does for a subject That's what decides whether or not it's art and at that point a random film talk I'm curious if someone spent a million years and all of the talent in every way shape and form to construct the most beautiful You know piece ever in existence So to speak and someone walks up to it and says You know, I feel the same way about this as I do just a bit of rocks I see on the floor when I'm walking by Like and if I feel nothing basically I assume that doesn't reduce the art What are the the the artness of the of the piece itself? um I feel like that's almost a different question because um From my perspective something being art or not is binary something being good or bad is not It's it's a sliding scale. I don't think that there's a sliding scale on whether or not something is art because it Yes, or no In that case, it would be yes um, I would say In that example the perfect piece of art and the pebble on the road If the guy walks past and says I feel the same about both Then I mean, I would say yeah, they're both art. There's just a There's a massive disparity in the quality which is an argument that you could then make Sorry, I wasn't trying to go that direction. I was trying to okay. Maybe the pebble confuses it I'm trying to say he feels nothing He's he's completely apathetic about this piece Absolutely, nothing comes to him from it so I would say that that This is where we're getting into the two different definitions and that's why I feel that one Not necessarily both one of the definitions needs to uh, it needs to adhere to at least one um, because if I if I write a book that's really really really good But I don't show anyone and then I die That doesn't change the fact that my book that no one will ever see Was art because I created it Um with I guess artistic intent I was able to get something out of it and now that I'm dead and or now that the book is gone or whatever That doesn't change the fact that it is or was art I think that's um, probably very common as a perspective that those two things can make it qualify But now I'm settled on The intentionality of the creation Aspect I do I do find that more convincing and more easy to box things in and separate things out and that um I would defend that Something I find meaningful doesn't have to be considered art necessarily like I can I can Separate those things out, but that I could also find that people be like, how do you separate those things out? Which would lead us further and further, but we can carry on if that's all right Yeah, let's do it I don't know the thought Is a garden art Yes, yeah Yeah, okay, absolutely so Let's say You know, we're trying to we're restoring a forest And then one guy Oh restore you said you said restoring and then I was like that that confused me Restoring restoring to store it to store it somewhere else We're gonna pick up a forest by planting some trees. Uh, so a guy plant A bunch of trees in a neat little row next to the road and then like, you know arranges them that way backward Is that art? I think you're are you getting at the pachinko example already gave It's just uh adding levels and levels and levels of less and less control Yeah, because it was yeah, I guess so because it was gonna Wow, but again just for clarity. Do you think that's art? Yeah And then we push it to the furthest extreme He's just flying in a helicopter and just throws them out randomly Just throws them out tosses them out like Jackson Pollock is an artist Oh Well, I mean that's not controversial Yeah, you're the controversial one right now for you. Okay, trying to imply that Tossing seeds into a garden wouldn't count as expression The argument you could make there is that he's making the intention of creating randomized art That's that would be my argument. Yeah I think he was I think it got yeah, I'm not sure this might go into like I I'm not gonna be able to determine it potentially. Yes, potentially No, I think it depends on how he Goes about doing that. Um, well, it's all I could be throwing out gracefully, but it's just about looking through the tick I mean kind of yeah, like there I think there's some element to be said about how he Makes it because technically it's not random But is he doing this and like with any intention of doing something or is it really just oh I do get to just throw him out there like in no way is that like him expressing how he does it It's not really like a conscious effort and in any sense Strength of intent. I don't know That's why I don't think that this is one that I can uh, I could ever answer In terms of one of them is true, but I don't know which one right Yeah, no, I I go any man. Like it's just that I feel it was like that can be stronger and lesser amounts of extent of intent somebody could do it Way more utility but still have some tiny amount of Consideration for how it's going to look versus somebody who is very very very thoughtful about how it's going to look But yeah, anyway, there's plenty of jobs that people do that they do so often And it have become so habitual that they're basically on complete autopilot Uh, like sometimes if you drive to work You just like suddenly realize you've arrived and parked into a parking spot and you're at work And you can't remember like anything about the trip You're just there you are on such autopilot mode. It's be it's so habitual for you You don't even remember the conscious act of doing the thing Even though obviously driving to work takes conscious effort So like that would be an interesting element of You know, it just goes to show how our I guess how our brains kind of work and I'm sorry. I've just seen two comments much like cleaning gardening is not odd Okay, that definitely is Hey, what are those what are the what are those Japanese tree things bonsais, right? Like boil it down to just a garden in front of somebody's house that they put a lot of time into making beautiful That's obviously got that's obviously creative expression And and you would have to consider as well some amount of hard work Sometimes I wonder it's like do you need to see the example of the person who grows a bunch of green flowers? And then a dot a dot yellow and a smile in yellow and then you got a little face Oh, look at that Right beneath it. Jackson Pollock isn't an artist. He is. Fuck off. He is I know what you're appealing to that you don't like his art, but it's art It's funny that you don't like it though. It's okay I'm gatekeeping that shit. He's absolutely an artist and there's such a thing as thinking the Art is bad. I'm more than fine with you saying that you can go ahead, but I think he's not an artist as far as he is not He is not Your comments are art I'm up in an eighth of banana. That's even more art. I used to hate modern art I used to think it was too simple too easy admission here being something's gonna be more art than others I assume that was like a passing joke comment Yeah, because it makes you wonder uh I would also Just say quickly as well the whole like I used to think like you guys I used to think modern art was silly It's like, uh-huh. Yeah, did you did you know you were never one of us, but I teared up I discovered the truth. Oh, I used to be an atheist. It's like, oh, that's not true Oh my god, no people say that all the fucking time They're like I found gourd I used to be an atheist and then became religious you mean All right, I hear all the other sales videos and stuff back when I was an atheist and then they'd say something That's like fucking bash it and saying I'm like, oh, okay Mona Lisa that's art. I thought it was less valuable than something more realistic because it didn't take as much skill the Mona Lisa Hmm could be his accent. Yes. Mona Lisa. Yeah Mona Lisa Yeah, I guess it's an accent thing. In fact, I've probably said that before it's just I noticed it's like, oh my god That movie's ruined that fucking picture for me. Yeah, you had it burning And the film being like this is amazing and she is so cool for burning. Oh, yeah. Yeah, not Why'd you remind me of that that that was like That that man that made me really old but now here That was a really upsetting. I did not like that at all Um Yeah, he's he's presenting the um the like This is the you know, this is a common perspective. I would argue it was too simple too easy It's not like the Mona Lisa. That's art. I thought it was too simple and too easy lacks talent lacks time lacks effort That it truly be considered While I agree it lacks a lot of those things. Um, I don't think it doesn't make it art um easy and simple and That's what I think Well, it's uh, it's it's the point the mall is making is that intuitively it just feels like now it's bullshit You know, like this one. Yeah, I think this was made in the 15th century That would have taken like five years to construct using like much Cruder instruments than we have now versus like people intend to insult things when they say they're not art That's that's the goal. Yes, pretty much. And especially artists People don't like calling ryan johnson an artist. They're like, he's not and it's like, no he is obviously is He's just I just think he sucks Yeah, it it does remind us of our react discussion where there is this element in our brains That's like man, you just took that and he worked hard on it and you're making all this money off of it And like, I don't know the song about that that makes me go I think it's just that a lot of it's People value the sense of like fairness and the idea that like something that You whipped up in an afternoon can be put on the same level as something that somebody worked on for years That has like clear and obvious talent behind it. There's something about that that doesn't feel right Intuitively, I feel like he's potentially conflating the idea of How valuable something is as art With the question as to whether or not something is art in the first place Yeah, because it's thrown in the word valuable in there that that definitely shakes everything up It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on because valuable to who Yeah, you are. Yeah What what Yeah, like in bouton mountain intrinsic value the value like monetarily or That you can't reach individual God damn it knows how each individual person values that that's like a whole different fucking conversation We got to figure out what artist first before we could talk about that And ate the banana. That's even more art. I used to hate modern art I used to think it was too simple too easy. It's not like the Mona Lisa. That's art I thought it was less valuable than something more. Yeah, I don't even buy that this is a perspective he has because Modern art as a whole there's plenty of incredible works in modern art. Like you'll find them Yeah, there are plenty of disgustingly hideous sculptures that must have taken months to make I was going to say that there are still things that we would all be very impressed by and do take Like a lot of work as well. They're out there Yeah, but wow, I think it's um, I don't know if it was either you more rags who said that uh, you know Modern art it's like that's not a great title for it because when people say modern art That don't mean art that was recently created. They mean something else Well, and it's certainly bad for this video because if he's if he's mainly saying well modern art I mean the art that I think is and then all the descriptors he just describes modern art You know what I mean? Like it's like just well, that was pointless If you if you just mean the ones that you thought was shit You know, I mean like in a video about modern art this this we had this problem with philosophy too But others were just like this is the one where you really need to be careful with the words you use Yes More realistic because it didn't take as much skill I used to think that until I actually went to an art museum and I learned about the stuff I was looking at and that was the opposite for me. I learned about modern art by going to a museum The opposite for me as well. Uh, yeah, that's the yeah The big realization that uh, it wasn't and so this is super interesting too because That red splotch when I was talking about where I was asking different people and nobody was drawing anything out of it If someone says to me then, oh, yeah, but you didn't read the history of it I'd be like, hmm. I'm not sure I feel about that. I made I made all of this third potting material to get it You know, yeah, like there is an element of how much What is to be said about a piece of art that exists only as A way to convey an idea maybe or a story that in no way actually requires the expression itself if I'm supposed to look at a A block on the ground and it's like well this represents that's that's that's that's that's that's so it's really not even about the block At what point I'm like, it will Well, I think that's the I mean a lot of our discussions right about like movies and tv shows and video games Well, a lot of it all of it. Oh, yeah with themes Which we're trying to draw things from what actually exists in the story that we can point to clearly And usually it's you know, it's pretty obvious, right? What's the the intent is a lot of the time but like The idea that you can like derive a whole bunch of things that exist like completely and utterly independent of the original creation Kind of makes you wonder like why am I even here like consuming this? Yeah, everything I draw from it doesn't exist from this thing that i'm looking at That red blotch. We talked about this with themes. Yeah Uh, if if the plaque of its history was basically just the entire story of lord the rings And the red blotch is supposed to represent the eye of saran I'd be like, okay that I mean I mean you say that but like I don't I don't know if I believe you Well, if someone was to try and argue like all of that meeting that I just got out of reading that history or slash context I feel like the history reading would be the art. Yeah, of course not the art It would be the the better The thing that I drew all of the great meaning from He drew the meaning from yeah, rather than the other thing And so like the fact that he said what changed his mind so much was discovering the context for the creation of like These things and seeing them in a gallery, which by the way, what a self report like I came to this conclusion well after going to galleries like Why were you why are you so proudly ripping into art when you hadn't seen any of it Like in person all of the stuff that he's been And I I wonder too like what does it mean that none of it survives being taken a photo of and seen on like Google images or shared online all of it dies when it hits that point really That's kind of fascinating. Isn't it as the robot example? I only showed a picture of it and I yeah, and I still well, and I mean, of course, you know It's a theater play like if you record that and then I watch that, you know It's like it's not like it's not like I lose everything from that experience. Yeah, if I watch a recording of a play Rather than seeing it in person or you know, like a recording of a concert Yeah, exactly or an orchestra exactly there's a difference But there's definitely yeah Well, yeah, that that's a good example actually because obviously the acoustics of like the room that you're in and being in that is going to be different than like You know, like how it's recorded anything post-processing or anything even if it's the quality of the microphone It changes the experience, but I mean, there's still You know like how much do you lose compared to the idea that you lose everything by like Looking at a picture of a piece of modern art rather than going to see it in the gallery I'll give you an example or something I give you an America moment example on this trip. I made recently a lot of us went out there And they're about 10 or so of us and we're all pretty pretty big gun guys And a lot of us brought firearms with us and we went to a range outdoors And at the end we'd been out there for hours But at the end before we packed up and left 10 of us got in a row We all loaded up our guns our ars and ak's and Grains and all the stuff that had been brought and we just unloaded everything at the same time one final little foof You know before we left and the concussive force And the dust and the noise was like legitimately an intense experience that I've never felt before But how many times in video games and in movies? Have you seen a bunch of people shooting and it just has like no effect on you whatsoever? But actually being there with all those guns to the left and the right and you going and The heat of it all and the casings hit in the ground and the noise it was legitimately intense and incredible And how do you feel about that as odd? Oh, it was glorious Wow So just quickly before you hit play There's something that he said that I I wanted to hear him say it twice because I wasn't sure if I misheard him I don't like that. He's equating difficulty with how art The artness of something true Well, because like as an example making a film that involves dogs or children or just animals in general Not that children are animals, I guess, but you know what I mean Um animals are worse. Yeah That's really hard to do especially I'm like I'm thinking of the um 101 Dalmatians live action Loads and loads of dogs most of them puppies Getting them to do what you want is going to be really really hard. Which makes it impressive But it doesn't make it more art than Um, let's say the exact same film that just used visual effects for all of the dogs I think he's presenting that perspective as the wrong one. Um, yeah, okay, okay He's saying he learned from having that perspective that that was wrong. Yeah I go into a gallery the more realistic He was saying like, you know, the Mona Lisa being art is because like more effort and talent put in so the other one's simple and you know, lame Because it didn't take as much skill I used to think that until I actually went to an art museum and I learned about the stuff I was looking at I learned the context the purpose you idiot skill behind interesting You learned about it Makes me wonder Yeah, the the background of it the law of it is the uh Deciding factor then which is very very strange as a It can affect your perception. It can affect your enjoyment again, it's If he's going to fall back on whether that makes it art or not I just don't see how he can make the argument if he is going to make the argument The thing that's awkward for me is that when he says that my impression is ah, so they convinced you Um, you know, you have two Jackson Pollock paintings one He made as an expression of his rage toward his marriage or something And and the desperation of trying to make ends meet through blah blah blah And it's supposed to talk about the uh calamity that is the universe Coming down on him or something and the other one. He was like I was bored. I just splattered some shit I'm guessing he would does his his perspective now that uh, it used to be that he'd think of them as the same But now if you hear those contexts behind both of them, one of them would become super art and the other one would be like man Really interesting because if you presented them and they look like basically identical to me If you explain this like without one, he was just fucking around but that one that meant a lot to be like, okay Like Feel about it, you know, like I still it's a real value all that much And by the way, the same goes the other direction, right? You see something you think is incredible Then someone says he made that like out of boredom. He was half asleep and he made it I'd be like I don't care. Okay. I'd still valuable to me. Yeah, this goes again I think I would sort of by default Generally value like all things being equal the one that took more effort and I guess to do I think in a way seems a bit more valuable Always appreciate Aspects of that like stuff behind the scenes filmmaking stuff when they talk about like efforts that you didn't even know about They were like, oh, they actually overcome this incredibly difficult thing It can make the scene more meaningful when you watch it again in future, but of course Definitely I try not to let it's almost the death of the author like tangential thing of You know someone saying like Actually, did you know how shit this was in terms of creation? This happened. This happened. You're just like, well, it is what it is now For example, uh mistreatment of actors Like this scene's incredible But did you know that they were like whipped to to get them to do this? You're like, oh, well that that's unfortunate and bad and wrong and illegal, but It's a really fucking good scene It is what it is You know, sometimes if the thing is the thing the backstory the info can give you a different appreciation for it And in a way can help you value it differently, but You know, not necessarily but sometimes, you know Making these pieces and it started to make sense and since then I feel like I've only benefited from having more of an open Super Mario galaxy music. Why not? It sounds like um, like the you know, the ones where you are now the space basically zero gravity And then you grab on to the different like grappling points to get Mario across That's what the music sounds like Yeah, I think that's beautiful. That was art. Yeah, no, it's it's man. Super Mario galaxy soundtrack God, I fucking love it. It's so good You made it sound excellent just now. Yeah. No, I know I I mean guys chat that was Look, that was odd. Okay. It was Indefensible What's interesting there is he just said that uh that process he would describe it as having more of an open mind I wonder in isolation if it really is or not Going from you treat a piece as is as presented or You adhere to whatever you're told about the piece of history, which is the more open mind Would you say? Sorry, so he's he's described himself as having upgraded. He's got more of an open mind Now the and I understand his logic is that he went from You know the piece is what it is to me versus the piece is what it is to me But also I'm interested in hearing what people have to say about its creation slash the creators blah blah blah But one could argue easily the opposite, which is that he's being told what to think and feel about it um so The awkward thing for me is like, I don't know. I feel I feel pretty cynical about sort of like it Sometimes I get the impression that um, the way that some people would talk about modern art is essentially kind of like um Man And I am I can distinguish myself from the plebs because of my greater appreciation for art Sometimes I get that impression. It's kind of like it's almost like a cope to try and make yourself feel like more special um, you know reminds me of Is uh chris duckman continuously watching bladerunner until he had the correct opinion That one is that is not fascinating right because it's like you're you're a film guy You're meant to like bladerunner You didn't and you had to keep watching it and watching it and watching it until you could make yourself hold the perspective You were meant to have That's yeah, that's not indicative of an open mind to me. It's one that's desperate to follow the trends Well, I think I don't know if I describe it as like open or closed mind It's just like a weird way to approach art. It feels like less pure, doesn't it? It's it's like too mired and and how you'll be perceived or like how uh The way that yeah the way that you're supposed to think the perspectives you're supposed to have It's like peter right when they're all yelling at him because he said he didn't care for the godfather you know, that's peter peter's got the the perspective he's not supposed to have and then yeah And you know They done for him over it Even though all he said is he didn't care for it the open mind aspect is being open to the new information But that does not define like You know Quality now like that's the next step of deciding whether or not you believe that additional information Changes anything was it stuff you missed the stuff you miss contextualized or misunderstood Or do you just think what they just said is kind of bullshit? It's kind of made up It's kind of a lie or or something that doesn't relate to the thing or doesn't change the thing It almost feels like um like there's something there that's worth You know considering and listening to right that there's like something calling out from deep within your soul of like Well, there's also a purity of being like I don't care how the thing was made I don't care what the author says the meaning of it is i'm going to appreciate it as is Again, I think um it is you know, it's kind of the reason why death of the author is an interesting concept beyond the concept itself is uh Is is the idea that like It it's it is it is intuitive in a sense But then it's almost like some people kind of get taught out of valuing that that it's like well no the There always has to be you always have to have like the intent that's so This i'm trying to organize this thought in real time If it was like somebody could be convinced out of like feeling that death of the author is true Um and that like intention is something that has to be like inextricable from their analysis of it like they have to Hold on i'm trying to i'm trying to figure out where i'm going with this thought um Do you think the death of the author is like intuitive? Do you think that do you think that that's something that people Like whether or not they've heard of the concept that they apply when you gather a huge Take for example the gray if someone took watch that movie and got an invigorating sense of sort of uh You know wanting to live and and experience meaning and move on and change their life and someone said You know, no, that's not what that movie's about. It's just an action film about guys escaping wolves Uh, like the the director and writer told them that I would hope that they be like I don't care if you think that that's not what the movie's about And uh, that's that to me is death of the author I like to stand in the way of the Of the intention if the thing itself matches enough that you can draw whatever you whatever you drew out of it And I think that a lot of people would experience that and understand it very well if they had those kinds of potent experiences because that's a very strange hypothetical That would probably never happen, right? It's not going to be such a blatant interpretation of a thing That the author is like nope, not intentional whatsoever, but it has happened it is out there Like I think I would probably say that what the author or the writer Has to say about a particular piece of art is likely or possibly going to change your perception Uh, but that doesn't as you've said it doesn't change what the piece of art actually is Yeah, I think the intuitive position is that the author decides what the meaning is I guess um, but I I guess where I'm going with that thought is like How how common do you think that it is that somebody would like go and try and find out what the author How often do you think it is that somebody watches a movie and then tries to go and find out exactly like What the creator of that film what the creators of that film were like going for How many people don't believe that happens much at all However, if I showed my dad like some movie and then I said this movie was about communism by the way He'd be like, oh, yeah, I go. Yeah, the director said and he's like, oh, okay. Yeah Right, right. He wouldn't go like I don't think so because well, you feel like sure, you know, he would know best He's the guy who made it that um It's not common that somebody will even if somebody holds a perspective that like what the creator says essentially determines what it's about That even if somebody believes that it doesn't mean that they're likely to go and find that out every time They go watch a film or read a book and it's like well now I need to know what the creator said to like Form the complete perception of this creation I mean, I always appreciate additional information Uh from different contexts even Any random person being like my take on this thing was this and I'm like that sounds insane. Let's hear it Like, you know, that's always fun It's like I guess my question is ultimately how often do you think a normie is looking at behind the scenes? Not much at all It'll depend partly I think on what if we're talking films what the film is because if the film Um, if it's your regular, you know, whatever is out, you know in cinemas star wars or Marvel Most of the time basically, you know, those films are designed so that when you watch them you should hopefully be able to understand them Is I think the goal? Whereas if you had a quote unquote normie watch something that was a little bit more abstract And it didn't hold your hand quite as much and they watched it and they were like I don't know how to feel about that I'm going to go and do some research and do some reading and then it clicks Or it doesn't click and then they they then have a greater understanding of their opinion of the film based on Additional information like one example. Have any of you guys seen the film mother darin aronofsky? No, no, yeah Okay, I'll avoid Yeah, I'll I'll completely avoid spoilers But let's just say that the film If you don't know what the allegory of the film is going into it Which I did not and if you don't kind of get it while you're watching it Then the film is almost going to seem like incoherent nonsense um And for some reason it just didn't click with me when I saw it and I watched it and was like well, I feel like There was a point to that but I can't work out what that was did a little bit of reading and it was a it was a very Coherent might not be the right word, but a strong allegory for something in particular and it was like, okay That explains everything my opinion of this film has now gone up Yeah, oh, yeah, I mean that that can happen right when you get information But I mean it almost feels like it wouldn't be appealing specifically to the fact that you like that it was you know the authors It'd be like it just it makes it all coalesce. It makes something click right in your own Uh, yes, that's been of the film. It's like this is new information that helps you Kind of in the same way that like, you know watching more films can make it easier to understand and appreciate or you know Grow to dislike other films. It's just new experiences changes how you go into something Yeah, the equivalent with the the lord of the rings law on that blotch of red It would be more so like a paragraph's worth and it's a really well Drawn image, but you couldn't quite make out what like the other maybe there's flames and then there's Some some chains. There's some demon creatures. You're just like, uh, is this hell? I don't know Then the paragraph is like no, this is a representation of heaven from the viewpoint of someone who You know hates the idea of conformity slash Pleasure also and you just you read all that and you're like, okay And then you look back at the image and you're like, oh because that's the oh, okay now Yeah, I get it all as opposed to the red blotch where you look back at it. You're like, well I don't I don't you know that additional context has done absolutely nothing. In fact, I think you're just cheating Like you're adding a bunch of stuff. This is not actually that that's just you know That's going to be down to the individual again probably about art wow I guess she was having a bad day that day. Yeah modern art can be weird and Frustrating and confusing but rather than embracing and trying to understand those feelings and why you feel them So many people choose to let that frustration trick them into thinking the art is at fault It's not how is it being tricked? tricked is an interesting uh It's an interesting word to use here, isn't it? What exactly can we wind it back five seconds? I think I need to hear that again All you're saying is the people take modern art to be weird and strange and they don't quite understand it and that um They'll be tricked into their position as opposed to genuinely thinking that it is strange and weird Well, yeah, this is kind of funny, right? It's it's it's it's being spoken Like the way he's saying it is meant to be like a more of a uh, you know, it's okay But like what's just been said there is pretty hilarious. Is the art ever at fault? Ever no no never maybe well, maybe maybe that's not true It's like a defense mechanism for nuance before we get into it though. This video is sponsored by raycon defense mechanism for nuance I don't understand that Nothing really, um No No, it's summertime now and the song of the summer is already here. It's pineapple upside down by queef jerky Uh So while technically that's art is what we call really shitty My god, I don't I don't want to be rude, but when we were talking about how difficult something is mattering My respect of art is changing as we Layers convincing me because not only does the thing itself seem No offense. Shit. Uh, it's totally art though. I'm not I'm not gonna take that away from you Um the way you incorporated it into this piece of art being the video was pretty bad by dude We just went from like a very fundamental important statement to time for my raycon ad. It's the summer's music time This is like I was not ready for this roller coaster. Okay. Yeah, we already have a song for the summer and it's kocomo by the beach boys So we no longer need your cake toilet song Thank you very much. And if you want to hear the new song, you're gonna need premium audio and thanks to raycon Well, I want no audio you need to be able to hear pineapple upside down. We need it for you need premium I need raycon quality to listen to this wonderful song. They're one of the more like Seemingly reliable sponsorships, right? They're just making headphones, right? Yeah, probably pretty chill you have to raycon's wireless earbuds started just half the price of other premium audio brands But you get all the same kind of juicy sound quality in there They have noise isolation 32 hour battery life. You already know. We already know all this. Listen, mike. Okay. We already knew Just move on. No need for the ad Tyson snoop dog ray j Oh, I've just noticed. So he's got he's got garfield. He's got an among us guy He's got totodile and he's got is that sonic holding like an xbox 360 controller. Yes, five Yeah, it's a playstation controller or something All right. Oh, yeah. Yeah the both of the the analogs to at the bottom there That is not someone I expected you to make the mistake offering. I'm surprised I think it's it's because the text is like over it right now and I'm just trying to Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a no, that's a ps4 controller, right? Well, it's one of them. Obviously being read. I can't quite tell Yeah, that's a ps4. I think that's that's not the dual sense. I think that's a dual shock for Oh, and he's got spider-man. He's got another among us down there Is among us? I wonder what do you think? Yeah Roger even was totally wrong when you said You're taking him out of context That was an absurd thing to say But he's not the only one who said it. I'm pretty sure amazing. Atheist said it back in the day at video games Don't count a lot of people can be wrong as we've just come So fucking nuts though When did you say that? I can't remember exactly when it was but Oh, I think it was in the 2000s. It wasn't like it wasn't like even if you said it in the 80s You'd still be wrong. Super Mario Brothers is art, but like I think it was like it's art Why would you even suggest otherwise? Yeah, I can understand someone saying that pong is not art I don't agree, but I can understand that. Um, I don't think I can understand like a film guy saying that I don't think I can understand a guy who's familiar with the concept should not be saying that Never say that. Yeah, you you expect better from these people. I guess Well, maybe not amazing atheist, but you expect better someone said that's actually tj's least worst take Probably We all have in common. We love racon. There are so many different colors to choose from different fits different patterns different styles You're definitely going to find the pair that's made for you. You will racon even has a 30 day return policy So for whatever reason you don't love the earbuds you can send a bright back and they won't ask Cinematically, I listen to music every day. I can't stop my new song just sounds so good and I like using Choose premium sound quality without breaking the bank if you click the link in the description You can get 50 off your racon purchase or go to buy racon.com. Is there anything wrong with buying like Relatively cheaper like how much different is the sound quality in terms of all right ear earphones? I don't know. I can't speak to any of your stuff, but it's weird. I'm referencing a lot, but on my trip a friend of mine Uh, dion he he brought some headphones and they were they were like $900 headphones And he wanted and he wanted me to listen to him He said listen to these and they were fucking incredible to the point where I'm like legitimately considering buying some Um, so Uh, I guess it's one of those things where maybe it's like monitors I suppose and fps and stuff like that. Sometimes you just kind of have to Experience it to know but with sound I guess in but any of your stuff is getting so good that You know, there's a big difference It's like I understand over ear headphones That makes a lot more sense to me in terms of like a massive difference in terms of the way I sound like it's a lot over ear versus like a you know, 400 500 is inevitable Yeah, technology and time and everything How we're able to cram so much into little, you know spaces of the head, you know in your stuff You know, if we've probably come a long way since the you know, the first ones I know growing up as a kid I had some and they were fine, but yeah, I bet modern ones are really good I mean, I'm your guy I just I have a hard time describing any Thing like that that is wireless as anything approaching like audiophile level Of quality and I'm currently using a wireless headset, but um, I don't use this when I'm doing any audio work because The go on sorry What is your favorite audiophile? Because I think it's like mp3 for me is a is a classic. I really enjoy that one I know there's some others, but I'm just not that really into wav. No much of the difference So wkv is very good. That's right This is the thing is on something like I don't know raycons because I've not I don't own any But like I have wireless earbuds that look similar to that and on those you basically can't tell the difference between Like different bit rates and different file types and all that kind of thing Whereas if you're wearing like the really nice 900 dollar headphones that you mentioned You'll absolutely be able to tell the difference between an mp3 and like a lossless audiophile format And that's one of the things that like mastering engineers kind of lament now is that They're You know you you spend however much money on all of the gear to write to write and record a song You get it mixed you get it mastered and then it gets played on like $50 earbuds. So what was the fucking point? Um, there is even the same. Yeah, like the go ahead. Go ahead I was just kind of saying it's probably the same right for you know in terms of films and then someone puts it on there like shitty Like, you know badly color corrected tv watching Oppenheimer on your mobile phone. Yeah, exactly. Yeah Yeah, the way it was intended with uh, what's called subway surfers on the bottom of it I use a program to download the audio from youtube videos and depending on the program or the site that you use You will absolutely be able to hear the difference depending on the song Some songs just the way that they sound and the the wave formats and stuff that they use just if they're in low quality You will hear some is I don't even go a ratchety rumbling or whatever it is. So So, yeah a lot of a lot of that a lot of that is going to be due to the compression that youtube puts on audio Which again is an issue for mastering engineers when they try to get something standing as good as possible On really nice speakers and then it gets crunched to hell and back when it gets uploaded to youtube There's some way to get like different qualities though Um out of youtube videos some sites will only I use you get better quality with premium right now. It you do. So I use 4k um 4k youtube to mp3 and they had a sale and they had there's a company that makes a bunch of them they make the 4k 4k video downloader um, and I have the premium for them and I can there is an actual difference whenever I download the audio from a youtube video It literally does sound better. It uses like a higher Thing to get the audio from it. So Yes Yeah, there definitely is but the cap on it is going to be whatever youtube can handle which is not going to be lossless I don't know what it is. Um, but like in the case of It won't be like what you download from itunes or something. You'll be down Yes, you'll be downloading like I probably about the best you can because they're selling to you from like a premium store Yeah, and like on 99 of speakers or headphones or raycons or whatever No one is going to know the difference like you will only really notice the difference Between that kind of thing if you're on high end equipment Yes, or if you have unbelievably good ears Yeah, I think uh, yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's important too knowing kind of like you've got to be able to know the difference Because a lot of people could know the difference, but until you actually like sit down and try different things Yeah, yeah, it actually really is. Yeah learning the difference Um, I mean frame rate's the same way as I mentioned earlier, you know years and years ago when I was just on a You know next box 360, you know that I didn't even know what frame rate was Um, you just it's something you didn't know but you knew when you played Yeah, bioshock. Yeah Mm-hmm Bioshock had the 60 fps mode and I was like what what's happened because you could turn it off and on You're like that you want the quality mode or the smooth mode and I'm like the smooth mode is so fucking amazing I don't even know why it is. It's just like better. It's smoother. I couldn't put the name to it But I would say it's something that probably contributed to call of duty success on consoles was that it was 60 fps when a lot of other uh, uh, first person shooters were 30 Yep, yeah 30 Uh battlefield 3 was about 17. So uh, yeah, not bad. Not bad. Um, how bad? By the way having partially brought it up, uh, if ever you unfortunately get, uh, drawn into some shorts ever or or those kinds of formats sometimes you'll see how Maybe like a manufactured like food is made or whatever products on a mass scale and it's like fascinating how the machines are all set to work and what it can do. Sometimes you'll see someone woodworking someone, you know, working with like locks or any particular, uh, field that they're in and then I just got uniquely sad that there was a podcast clip In the top left top right was one of the manufacturing things for like Jelly or whatever the fuck and then bottom left was subway surface and bottom right was someone chopping wood And I was like good god Like the top left was the content quote-unquote the rest of the visuals were just there to keep you there and uh That is uniquely just like not only is it stealing all that other stuff It's like this is popular. It had like millions of views and I was like, oh my god Are you are you that lacking in attention span that you have to have four things happening on the screen at one time? Have you seen those memes where it's like the cinema and it has Oppenheimer And then it just it does have like subway surface on the left and someone like playing a game on the right Someone's chair reacting to it. Yeah, it's it's just like good god I hope this is the trend that dies quickly like it doesn't actually have a foothold in culture at all because Again for 15 off your raycon purchase. Thank you so much to raycon for sponsoring the video Please check out raycon. It does really help the channel and that's it Of course, there's a political component, right? All art is inherently political That came out of nowhere I think the the only way to make this true devalues the concept so much that it's not even worth mentioning at that point I'm happy to say no, um I would prefer an argument, but like when we can develop into it, but just like I just hate hearing that so much He's just saying it's exactly all art's just political All art is political and then you're like, okay So like I don't know you just draw a tree like on a piece of paper the tree existing and is represents freedom in a society If we keep chopping down chopping them down, then you wouldn't know what a tree is Just a planet in space almost lonesome just out there. I do Yeah, because it's all said like a stroke of Literally a pencil line and then they're like, yeah, where was that pencil from who made it? You know, like I didn't that's not that's not my art. I'm just the pencil line Like, oh, yeah Well, where's the where's the lead come? Yeah, we're led was putting pencil back there. It's like, yeah, I'm not talking about that It's a fucking line Yeah, but I feel like that's what that's to me. I despise it always have done Is that you know, it goes both ways, right? The the cartoon version of that on the other side is that there are no politics I love when games weren't political and it's modern warfare. Metal Gear Solid, BioShock Well, that's the only time when Pete went when this started rising your prominence this whole I mean, it always existed, but it really started to pick up steam and You know, these online political spaces was because there was a lot of games that came out with very very In, you know, down your throat overt shitty political messages and a lot of people were like, please keep the politics out of my games Yeah, well, what people meant was they didn't like shitty, shittily conveyed like over like heavy-handed Reaching like this is presentation. Yeah, exactly. So like it's not that they don't like politics It's just that and at that point it's like how how good faith do we want to be are we even interested in understanding What the other person is saying and by the way Just to we can be the even more progressive people here If someone plays BioShock and adores it and talks about everything they learned about Whatever particular thing and then you say what you know, what do you think it has to say about objectivism and then they go, huh? I didn't know anything about that And you're like, okay, what do you think it has to say when you're just like nope didn't notice any of that I was just thinking about how what it has to say about You know society and how it can crumble just in general any society And does that make them wrong? Yeah, they're they're watching they're playing games wrong you fuck Not saying that you're playing games wrong, but you're playing games wrong And that's the thing Because he thought he was right Ah, yes, of course. I feel like there's a an extremist bad take in all directions for this topic, you know But the the one that gets misrepresented all the time is the one that says like good god I hate having the moment where the character grabs the camera and explains to me their thoughts and feelings from directly From the writer as to what the problems with the world are and how to correct them And then someone else goes like yeah, all is that like no, it's not like I mean we appreciate that it's obviously not all that Yeah What is the politics? Uh, wait, I was about to say don't do it politics and mario and that don't do it The notion kingdom is a monarchy Yeah, and then the gender dynamics between mario and peach and yeah, all right. What's the politics of the banana? Hmm represents the industries of fruit trees. Yeah, that's right. That's yeah, exactly in the Yeah, the banana republics. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah See, yeah, isn't this great conversation Well, yeah, because wonderful way to talk about art that well, okay Because everything that you just said is about bananas not that banana. So it's like you're not drawing You're not drawing any kind of political Messaging out of the piece of art itself You're drawing it out of what you think it is You wonder if they think all art is political is valid is all art is sociological valid is all art technological Valid is all art Philosophical is that valid and if so Then it really does dampen everything doesn't it's just like everything is everything. Why are we doing this stop? To categorize it with meaning instead of just throwing everything on there and feeling Because there's always a sense of superiority that tends to be delivered with that line It's all political you silly idiot. Yeah, exactly. You fill a stain. You Clubby and you simpleton I'm really curious what direction he's going to take this in because I I can't So many directions either in its influences messages or implication one on one guys Either in its messages influences or implications. It's going to be political So awesome. Cool. What are the implications of the banana? I don't know. What about just like I don't know what what about what about like an elephant making a painting or something You know it's political who who owns the elephant who allowed him the tools who kept him This is what I mean if you're gonna expand it that far Like if he actually legitimately argued like the the child who made the finger painting does belong to a capitalist society You should be like so what? You know, like you take that context and yeah, just everything is everything like what's the point Yeah Art critique is really just opinion, but a lot of people let right-wing propaganda cloud their judgment of modern Gonna need a reference on that Well, whatever this comes up immediately switch out the keyword and see if the sentence still lines up and it's like Right-wing propaganda makes people think particular things about art It's like, yeah, but it couldn't possibly happen with left-wing propaganda. Could it like that's that wouldn't happen Nope Why Unless This is why I don't know where he's going with it because if he would just be I guess apolitical and say Everything is all art is inherently political to some degree and it's influenced by the right and the left or whatever Then that's an argument that I could potentially be convinced on Like I don't think I agree, but just straight up saying Who do you mean right or left? It's just anything anyone can yeah Sort of convince you that artwork means a particular thing with their own sort of rhetoric. That's more than possible Yeah, look it but you know that that's the thing about videos when they say like this person Uh, you know a good example would be cag in quantum media when he said that uh, don't trust Janet because she changes her mind It's like everybody does. What do you mean? It's influences messages or implication one-on-one guys is a baby stuff art critique is really just opinion But a lot of people let right-wing propaganda cloud their judgment of modern art whether they realize it or not All because it helps them feel better in not wanting to engage with it in an ideal They allow right-wing propaganda to essentially Cloud their judgment on a thing because it makes them feel better about having not to engage with it. That's a theory I've got nothing. Sorry. I mean, I just disagree. So You have to go further a conservative world art is interpreted for people through a youtube video full of lying misinformation emotional manipulation So this is one of the fascinating fucking statements He could have made considering if you were to summarize what he's done so far It is to say people interpret art in a particular way. They are wrong. I used to do it too I do it right now and the right way that I do it is to be told what the message behind the piece is And he just listen know all of that and then listen to how he summarizes the bad videos In not wanting to engage with it in an ideal conservative world art is interpreted for people through a youtube video full of lying Misinformation emotional manipulation false. Do you get it? Like that's fascinating, isn't it? That's exactly what he's done in the first two and a half minutes I wouldn't necessarily say he's lying, but he's definitely told us how to interpret art and he said that's the conservative I mean, he told you that the it told you that the original The way that he thought about it right before that like that his perspective being on it based on Oh, you know, it's simple. It didn't take much hard work. It's like that's somebody's perspective That is like an approach that they're taking to what that you've said is now completely and utterly That's why I brought up the whole open mind thing because I don't know that he has Increased his world view in a beneficial way by going from I take the art piece And I think I take the art piece and I think all the way over to I take the art piece I go find out how it was made and then I absorb that as the truth and move on Like hmm, and that's that's the correct way to do it. And yeah, I know And then he decries that process when it's right wing Yeah, I was going to say what if he listens to I don't know like if he's watched I don't know Jurassic Park or something and then he listens to I guess a filthy right winger talk about the film um, and he actually listens to what they have to say despite thinking that Uh, it's all misinformation because they're a right winger or whatever And then he comes away being like actually those were some good points But wait a minute. They're a right winger. So they can't be like is that what he's doing? I guess it would be I assume he's not saying all right wiggers I don't know though. You never know. I think he said that. I think he actually said that Not wanting to engage with it in an ideal conservative world art is interpreted for people through a youtube video It's so untrue. Yeah, because you're right an ideal conservative world So like this would be the conservative perspective The world perfected The amount of conservatives that fight each other over what a piece of art means the idea that they're all Hoping to be like the Borg when it comes to understanding art I don't think so and by the way, I would give this benefit of the doubt to all like political persuasions Everybody has their thoughts and feelings on art. I don't think anyone is like I got to go to my political party to understand what I'm supposed to think about the art What I will say is that there are plenty of uh pieces of art that get used as a Calling what should I say like a Like a beacon in one direction or the other so for example like You know something that is a heavily political film in some way shape or form One side might claim it as sort of like we should support this because it's blah blah blah And then the other side might be we should fucking hate that because it represents blah blah blah Like that happens But then you get films like fucking dead reckoning for example It's just like who likes and who doesn't like mission impossible dead reckoning part one It's like who knows it might be might be anybody might be not anybody people just a green all over place in a green All over place it could be anything the idea that the right wing Put out a fucking thing about like how you should feel about I just I just don't buy it Like what is it like the the right wing art? Like channel or something that for every new thing that comes out as like here is the correct opinion on like What is that? I don't I don't understand what that dynamic looks like But something of a meme I've noticed is that with political pundits especially and this could include people like Ben Shapiro destiny Whoever else a lot of their biggest fans will be like, please don't talk about media Yeah It's not like they go, oh, yes my political thought leader tell me how to feel about the media No, it's the opposite. They're like shut the fuck up. So I'm talking about it. It's horrible I really don't like the idea that like a film can be used as a political litmus test We're like the hive mind of Of whatever persuasion you think you are or whatever has decided that you're going to like it or not Because what that then does is it also means that if Someone who is of that political persuasion or someone who just doesn't care If they then say I liked this film or I don't like this film In the back of your mind, if you think the way this guy potentially seems to He's going to be like, oh, well, you're one of them like he's justifying why you think this way without actually listening to what you're saying Yeah, you know what's sad as well as if if this section was Applied broadly like all political sex do this. They'd be like, you know, I can I can get like I don't agree with a point But I can at least see it but it's like no the right wing do it. It's like, okay Yeah, how to put your cards on the table. He doesn't mean this is like that's Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay. All right. Yep. Sure. You're smart information emotional manipulation false comparisons But this happens every day. Prager. You has made at least a dozen videos fooling your old Fooling people Uh, I don't actually have arguments. Don't really have any opinions on Prager. You don't watch them at all But hey, we'll uh, we'll see we'll treat what they say in the clips that he gives in the same way We treat what he says Are they is Prager you who we've been getting our orders from because I haven't I don't know if we're right way. Are we who knows? I do. I don't I we probably are I don't know I don't know who Prager you is They exactly meets yet. I got I don't know who they are. I have never heard of them before. Who are they? I don't know They don't quite be able. We don't have we don't have secret moon bases that nasa runs Where we go to all of our meetings. No, no, do I actually a tank tank, right? Yeah, it's like a conservative tank tank channel kind of thing organization. It's like a wiry kind of thing Then we shit tons of videos about all kinds of topics that Have a right. It's safe to call them right wing, right? Oh, yes They're conservative right. Yeah Modern all of them are completely nonsense and wrong completely nonsense All of them. That's probably not true Why is it then I hear the same boring shallow fragile talking points from people fragile from you or Other people who should be way more in touch with culture. Listen. Yeah, I know his face is in the thumbnail And yeah, this video is kind of about charlie. But listen, it's not personal. I'm trying to compare content that Why so we actually watch anything? So he is he is scatterbrained and this this is a Badly fucking structured video. But what he just said to us was I'm gonna cover preg use perspective on art because it's backward and crap And I shouldn't be hearing what they have to say repeated also by someone like uh moist critical Okay, so he's attaching Why okay, why do that though? Well, and he described the points as fragile as well, which is or it's the implication that like moist critical Has fallen victim to the propaganda. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah because he brought up earlier There's right wing propaganda that'll cloud your judgment on art. You can't let that happen He's being brainwashed. Yeah, it can't be at all that everyone has opinions and they all share them and other people are convinced by them Don't be that but can't be that that's exactly what this video is trying to do Yeah, all right, let's wow. So this is gonna be a fun video. Isn't it? All right, let's you can quickly if there was a lack of self-awareness competition for efab covered videos I mean, I was about to say this one would win. It's like wow You know, I'm not gonna make any claims. We should have nothing in common fascist propaganda And gamer streamer should not be saying the same things. Why? Why not? What if they're right? Yeah, what if they're not your statement? That's just true What if a gamer streamer is just a fascist? That's his political opinion. Yeah, you could be a gamer fascist Streamer you could stream and be like, yeah, I am a fascist here's what I think I just uh, you know, preggy. You were like you should have a healthy diet like well Comfy's saying that anymore thought the same thing. Wow Do we difference is preger use content? Sorry. Yep. Go ahead. Do we need to know what? Moist critical said or is the video gonna tell you because I have no idea He's gonna give us a preggy you first and then you'll go for critical Okay, realistically should have nothing in common fascist propaganda And gamer streamer should not be saying the same things the difference is preger use content is Motivated and has an agenda charlie is just being a useful idiot for that agenda with so I don't think that's applicable because charlie's just expressing how he feels about art. He's not Yeah, he probably doesn't have to know anything about preger. He's not on his own though That's probably what he's gonna say. Well, I feel like Correct me if I'm wrong, but useful idiot requires at least somewhat of like I'm like You will love our team because it's gonna help you do blah blah blah and the person's like it will and you're like Yes, yes, it will a hundred percent when it won't but they're like, okay cool I'll I'll I'll you know, I'll um spread your ideology because I think it's true because it helps me in this way And then someone else is like you fool you useful idiot. It doesn't help you at all. You think it does Meanwhile, someone advocating For a position they hold for unique reasons the benefits someone else's position I don't think that should be considered the them as a useful idiot for that other, you know group That's just it There's a crossover at that point and the thing is it almost implies like I say implies it says the charlie does not understand The you know, he doesn't even believe in his own position It doesn't benefit him at all and that he's just a useful idiot for prega you. I think he would laugh his ass off He heard that Um, you know a spoiler alert charlie's perspective is basically just that he doesn't he doesn't he's not impressed by a lot of shitty modern art That's it Which is the correct opinion. It's a normal person's opinion I would argue it's one of the more common opinions ever like just that you see a splat on the wall and you go shit Sometimes it is actually literal shit because that's the artist's intent They wanted to throw this shit at the wall to make a point like when someone when you hear that you just like, ah, come on You're fucking with me now. Someone else is going to tape a banana to the wall. There's like, oh, there they go You're like, oh for fuck's sake. There it is I'm glad you said that mohler because um earlier on someone sent me an image which I put in the Chat, um, and he says that this is an artist called pierre meant manzoni who took a shit in a can sealed it Spray painted it gold and sold it at auction for $300,000 plus Yeah, and see you just hear that and you're like art scams Okay, I bought my $300,000 can of shit today. How much is your shit? I bet you just flush that away not me Yeah, this goes on the mantle Yeah He's in gold. I know it's not on purpose charlie doesn't watch prager you for his art analysis content He probably didn't even get the talking points from them, but guarantee you charlie doesn't watch prager you Well, that's right. No, but you see that's a point. He doesn't watch him and he didn't get him from there But that's not the propaganda seeping through How does so so it's not from them, but it is their right wing propaganda I imagine what his argument would be is that basically like the think tank puts the thought out there The thought then seeps through other channels and arrives. So even if you haven't seen prager you Whatever it was that they put out has found its way like to seep through to like the consciousness of the public I was about to ask Does he not think a left winger could come up with a position that modern art can suck? You'll probably be like the second you have that position. You're no longer right wing I mean, he might think that that would be really stupid. Uh, he thought that but he might They're still saying the same thing charlie's just an average guy with an average brain in his head florida average, but An average brain in his head cool. So like put it up. No, it's just not very intelligent. Yeah, it's just like, all right Not like me. I'm really cute all over here. Tell us what you think Like I'm sure I mean, holy shit This guy's a big brain. I'm sure How similar normal average guy language can be to Ah, that's right. So you know, yeah, this is what a normal average guy language Not like me the sophisticated art analysis man Which all he's told us so far is that he's been told what to think about art and that changed his life It's you're so far. He's communicating in regular every day You know words But do you do you have what I mean though that the the whole criticism he has of prairie u is exactly what he said changed his life About art being told what to think There's so much subtext here. The subtext is i'm much smarter I What I would need to know is What exactly did most critical say that this guy thinks was taken from prairie u I'll say we'll get there. It's going to be a while before we get to see the actual quotes My guess is it's going to be that the quotes are vaguely similar But that we will rule out any possibility that he could have arrived at a similar conclusion independently I'm as far as I'm concerned. It's it's a normal perspective to say That that pile of shit is shit. It's just it's not Why are we treating this like it's a political thing is insane Evaded propaganda content that we all get everything is political. So no is dishonest listen It's nothing personal. It's nothing against charlie. I've met him before. He's very nice. I just don't know why he's like this He's not smart, right? Don't know why he's like this. Why do people look at a pile of cheese and just not go like this Is incredible art once I read the plaque He just gave your normal of a pretty normal and probably pretty accurate perspective Uh On art that most people would hold Yeah, but it's a right wing Oh, okay. Well, I think I think that's something that he probably needs to understand first and foremost is the average person Isn't sitting down having these massive philosophical No Yeah, the average living lives and going to their jobs Having a conversation like so is a mountain art Like I think if you if you just have that conversation with like somebody who's just leading their life and you know Consumes art in between like general like family activities and work and things like that They just love the fuck you talking about. Yeah, they wouldn't even ask They just wouldn't be that interested in the conversation. It's like because it's just like, you know Like I understand what art is right. I go watch a movie I you know, I I go I see a painting I play a video game or whatever like The average person isn't having these sorts of conversations to figure out what is an isn't art Like definitionally and whether or not that applies consistently to the guy eating the banana off the wall exactly um And then the idea that that average person You know sees The banana on the wall and says how is that art and then this guy is like, oh, are you right wing? Have you fallen for the propaganda? You don't know It's just like Okay, first things first. Why is modern art so bad by Prager you from eight years ago, you know, like a painting Next to a bunch of splotches on the wall. I mean, you know, it's a fair question I like how that's basically what people think of instantly with modern art is like just random splotches Random splotches or like a toilet in the middle of a room. Yep. I wonder why they The foundation of what I'm going to be talking about and since this video is made to target fatherless teenagers Fatherless Tina. Okay. I'm sure that Okay, okay. What can you say? You're saying that so fatherlessness is a problem then right? What do I do with that if fatherless teenagers are gonna really find this Video about how shit the banana tape is gonna be like what? Just rubber flurks. Fuck you for not having a dad Who helps us all think from Leonardo to Rembrandt to Bierstadt Produced works that inspired uplifted and deepened us The text on this by demanding of themselves the highest standards of excellence Improving upon the work of each previous generation of masters And continuing to aspire to the highest quality attainable conservatives are so all right now If you went to an art school or you took these guidelines as what you should do for your craft and you took them to heart You would probably make some insanely good art. So this is the thing If we were told to tear into this as best we can I believe we could we talk about definitions We talk about where he's drawing a lot of this from but this is some standard Like advice that is you know improve upon the work is like Yeah, basically have a high standard and work hard If you wanted to do like the big ol stretch It would be that maybe it's narrowing in too much on one way Which would be iteration rather than like massive sweeping You know what I mean like if you wanted to read that into it But the problem is I feel like we're not going to get the full context of the video So I don't actually know what this guy's Broad point is Yeah, nor are we going to be able to ask him for example like, you know, you seem to have Uh, as you just mentioned like working from previous generations and eras But what about like experimentation combinations and Outright just crazy shit that you just want to see if you can create a new new standard new Format sort of thing. Yeah, like would you yeah exactly? Like how does he feel about you know, I guess deviations from the How does he feel about impression to start for instance or like abstract on and whatnot Can you to aspire to the highest quality attainable because aspiring to the highest quality attainable is all well and good But of course we need to know basically the same thing Demanding the highest standards of excellence and aspiring to the highest quality attainable Yeah, I feel like they're basically the same thing. Um, which which kind of well the interesting difference to me Like includes the second I wonder if uh aspiring to it is the Like the pain to themselves and then demanding the highest standards of excellence as I like in review And so if it's not that you get maybe yeah Like the process that you essentially go through to become better is that you have an expectation of yourself But then again, the problem is what do we mean by quality? What do we actually want to say is the reason why I was gonna pause it They're the same is because I kind of I I'm okay with number three I'm not as much okay with number one because Like aspire to greatness. Sure demand the highest standard. It's like Um, well, is that the way it's saying like be very like intense on yourself? I guess. Well, I guess the thing is when you start you're probably not going to be very good and you need to be Yeah, and that's okay very good for a long time and well hence is aspire is the word I like aspire is better Yeah, I think aspire is better because it's more of the long game Also, if you're relatively new at whatever the art form is you may not even understand what the highest quality attainable is Exactly. Yeah, when you draw the shitty horse and then you draw the fire horse You know 10 years later you get to look back on your shitty horse and be like there you go Yeah Done in Kruger, right? It takes some time To actually like even understand what you don't really confident Yeah, and then eventually it's like you don't know what you don't know and then you know what you don't know Like the the longer that you go it's like the more of an understand And then of course it depends on like the process, right? You could get locked into a particularly rigid way of thinking about your craft or you could be put into like a more Open-ended Here's methods of the masters. So That does seem to make a little bit more sense in terms of this is under the context of previous, you know, very good in their fields people Like these three maps that more than they do art in general necessarily Sure Conservatives are so artistically and creatively bankrupt that their understanding of art And these images of the background that'll Look at this back That's a beautiful painting. It is Wait, hold on. So what happens what happens if I write a really cool song? And then I I guess transition and become a conservative is the song no longer good. Yes Do you know tests like that would be so much fun when Well, uh, because that happens all the time My impression would be that this guy Probably rarely if ever can divorce the art from like some broader societal context I need to know the politics of the person Exactly. I I get the impression that he probably is Beyond the point of being able to look at something in his vacuum as best as possible The first thing he would ask is well, what what are their politics? Who is this person before? Yeah, so for me, I could do is I don't look up their youtube look up their twitter I could imagine that with this painting it would be like well, you know The painting may look nice and all but you need to understand that in the context of which was painted like 19th century trends on you know like the You know what I mean like It would be I feel like I imagine that he would struggle to just talk about it for what it is I'm also slightly confused as to why he would have this perspective because if he believes that all art is inherently political But then he's going to say that all conservative art is What exactly did he say it was bad or something like that? Right, so that about the art or about the interpretation of the art Let's have a look each previous generation of masters And continuing to aspire to the highest quality attainable conservatives are so artistically and creatively bankrupt artistically and Like broadly because that I just can't you can't create I mean why why think like that? Why be like that? I would actually say yeah, that doesn't make sense He can't like you might be able to creatively bankrupt meaning what they can't create they won't create But I mean How does does this mean that like any art that was made before the 20th century? Considering that the vast majority of the artists of those times would be considered pretty conservative compared to like the average person of today Would that be applied retroactively? Like that all of those people by comparison are like creatively. Do you know what I mean? Like that anybody created something in the past would be creatively bankrupt because their perspectives are probably more conservative than the average person of today Yeah, I mean you think Leonardo da Vinci like what do you think his opinions were like politically and socially It's like probably like a lot of other people which was probably by our standards not that great dude What the fucking you know aug was painting on the cave is like yeah, but what's your opinions on immigration aug? Why that is really funny. What is the politics of aug's painting on the wall? His position on dragging women into the cave by their hair Me for it Like would it be fair to maybe assume of this guy that he Potentially wants to know the politics of the artist so that he is not then caught out thinking that conservative art is good Based on the fact that he thinks all art is political I don't want to be that cynical I I get me It's just I wouldn't rule that out Because that's all that yeah that explanation fits. It's just it doesn't necessarily catch all I just get the impression that like I'm super getting the impression now that it is like this is a way that he can separate himself from the crowd Look at my wonderful like enlightened perspectives on art and how developed they are compared to the pleb We're not far in but it feels like the cartoon he's describing. He is just the other side of it I mean pretty much seems that way But maybe maybe it'll become more developed and less of a caricature is uh as we progress Yeah That their understanding of art hits a hard limit at if it's not pretty I don't want to see this old stuff. It it's pretty and it took a long time. So generally Why just why'd you say it like that? I was gonna say and it took a long time. I would prefer to see pretty things So like do you really think all the all the right wing perspective on these paintings would be is that it's pretty And it took a while to make that's all they've got really I mean, can we can we be a little bit more like good fair slightly more generous? Yeah I find it amusing that he keeps leaning on the idea that it's hard to make being a conservative Uh perspective because that is kind of suggesting that Trying your best is a conservative value. Yeah, no, you're completely right. They accidentally sort of backfire with this He's he's sequestering hard work to the conservatives. It's like why why are you doing that? Why would you why would you surrender that ground? So strange Yeah We'll have to see it depends on where he goes. Let's say. Yeah, that means it's better They pretend like they don't think exactly like that, but they do but something. Oh, okay. Well, all right. Well This guy I don't know man. I don't feel like you can say stuff like that after making fun of charlie, you know So I might consider it to be a bit I was actually gonna say this video can't have done that great for charlie fans so far, but uh, we'll see Charlie's an idiot, but i'm smart. I'm big smart. I went to a gallery once I went to the gallery that blew open my but the implication of that statement, by the way If you if we were to roll back redo d2 was that uh, nobody else who has the perspective has done that He was like and then I went to a gallery and looked at the art You know, like the implication is if you have the perspective that modern art is shit You haven't been to a gallery When hence why I believe that both me and fringy I didn't know what modern art was until I went to a gallery, you know, I could be wrong here But hey chat, let me know. Um, has everyone Been to at least one like art museum slash gallery in their life A lot of them are free. You figure right because a lot of them are free because a lot of your you already fucking paid for it Yeah, there you go The thing is for me it was uh, like school trips was uh, the initial exposure is just like yeah for a school trip You go to school do a lot. Yeah. Yeah, so And everybody's saying yes except for a couple of people Yeah, you should Go with a friend and you'll find something definitely and every one of them It's just you'll find a lot of stuff and of course it's cool to see You know from differing sort of uh genres and differing techniques and everything medium like there's a good amount of variety Yeah, exactly. I would have loved to have seen that robot in person. Uh, I would have loved to see that robot too I'm so glad that you introduced me to that because that's like a really fascinating one for me I find that one super interesting It's um, it's particularly cool the uh because this is an aspect of all we didn't even necessarily talk about but The video I remember seeing of it originally was there's so many people just surrounding the piece and staring at it Unthinking and it's like that alone is super interesting. Just looking at everyone's reactions to it, you know What are the what do you think they're thinking about that sort of stuff? And on the way to the 20th century The profound the inspiring and the beautiful were replaced by the new the different and the ugly No, I wouldn't say replaced I mean, yeah, this existence for all of this Sure, but I I don't I don't know if I like the use of the word replaced Yeah, or necessarily ugly things change over time. Uh, yeah Attitude's changed. Yeah, do we want to unravel the fucking concept of ugly? Yeah, I wouldn't call an impressionist painting I mean like ugly compared to the pietta or something, but they're just like yeah Different at first and foremost is they're different if you want to you know what I mean Yeah, well, it feels like there's almost at least two stages of ugly like ugly in terms of good god That was a pathetic attempt to make this like that I can see how you made it and it looks crap Versus you painted something incredibly well that is ugly Do you know what? But that's just too this way more of that Style's ugly. I mean, that's mad. Not only is that completely subjective But the other two are synonyms in this context. Robert. What are you doing? But all new and different new and different on synonyms are not synonyms at all. They describe this No, I was no different because You can have two things that are old that are different from each other and new and you can have a new thing that's similar You can have two things that are different Exactly you can yeah No, it's just wrong He might be right in the there may be context in which you can use the You could switch one out for the other and it doesn't change the meaning too much But yeah, he's wrong to say that they are just strictly synonyms Yes, that is that is wrong. Yeah And he said it so smugly too Well, he's really smart. He's not like that idiot charlie with his florida brain. This guy's a really smart dude So maybe you should shut your fucking mouth and listen to him talk about art because he's He's really smart guy. As you know as you can tell this is a this is a really smart guy He really knows what he's talking about. Also. He's talking about Impressionism ugly. Yeah Ugly there's wait. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Is he talking about impressionism? Hold on normally that but he just said ugly Yeah, there's like wait I think I think he's he's memeing right? He's saying like you're actually saying the impressions is ugly really Okay, i'm super lost because didn't he just say the opening fucking point he made was that it's subjective Can we uh, yes, but you know Let's rewind here rewind time But the other two people were replaced by the new the different and the ugly Nah, and they weren't styles ugly. I mean, that's mad. Not only is that completely subjective, but The other two are subjective in this context. Robert. Sorry He's saying ugly. He's saying that he was is subjective about him saying it was ugly, right? Yeah, that's what I said something at the beginning of Yeah, okay. So why why would you even oh, oh, right, right? If you if your point is it's subjective Ugly is subjective and also you saying this is ugly. Really? It's like wait. Hold on Yeah, because it would be like if you've already blown open the doors that anyone can find anything ugly or beautiful Then what's the point in saying like yeah, but this isn't ugly though Yeah, because then you would have to accept that he could look at that and say it is absolutely Yeah, you have no argument. You would have no means of fighting him on that That's the direction I would take it is that he clearly finds a lot of this ugly and that's whatever. Yeah, fine Did he even say this about impressionist start? I don't know century 19th century was like when impressionism started to become more prevalent Because we haven't gotten to whether or not what he just said as representative of what the other guy said is even true This is a video with layers What are we doing? But also he's talking about Impressionism ugly. Oh, okay. Absolutely. Okay. Is he I don't know you didn't show me Ugly there's a reason they aren't using any actual examples today The silly the pointless and purely offensive are held up as the best of modern art I guess this last one is supposed to be Warhol. I guess people I imagine you're not supposed to get that deeply into it. Yeah, I don't know about that But that's you know, that's the joy of art. You could if that's how you deep you want to look into it Though, I think we should be a bit charitable. Um I'm the thing is Warhol's fun memes and all but you know, it is fine. Yeah Well, he's also saying purely offensive as if that's the that's the that's all it is Like something art can be offensive as well as being something else If it is just offensive My you know, he's loading the state today the so if you look at this I think I think that the art direction of this video isn't necessarily 100 connected with the person who wrote it And what I mean by that is that when they say Three aspects or three dominant aspects of art creation these days is to be silly to be pointless And to be purely offensive The representation of those three things it was up to the uh the person who you know does the artwork for this video I don't think they didn't talk to each other Yeah, I don't think the writer was trying to say that Andy Warhol does it purely offensive works I don't think we're supposed to interpret it that way though I will say it is the video raises an interesting point Which is does this video have any example specifically because that would be good if it did I think it does an example of what it's talking about. Okay And uh, and what I will say by the way is that matching your Visual in that way is still a plus to the video especially for like understanding your point better So if they had chosen a well-known style for purely offensive from an artist They believed to be purely offensive that would be you know good I'm kind of trying to think like from the perspective of What you guys have told me about prega you What would they deem to be a work of art that is silly pointless and purely offensive because i'm kind of thinking I've no idea family guy, but then like I don't I don't think that that is true of family guy I just think that maybe that's a perspective that people like that might have maybe I could I could see them saying that about like if they saw a scene, you know the one where they all throw up From the I could see the I could see the conservative guy being like this is silly pointless and offensive purely It's shock shock comedy basically Purely offensive are held up as the best of modern art I guess this last one is supposed to be more hall I guess people typically like those they can't use real examples People relate and connect to modern art, but in order to manipulate the viewer more It's the point that people typically like it. So I don't think what I don't think it was surprise conservative man to be told that there are people who like them or not and connect with it You'd be like, okay. Yeah, especially warhol's a famous pop artist. So like that won't I'm gonna surprise him that won't surprise him. Yeah And I mean we're all on board the idea that people can connect with anything nothing even We can connect with the Labsense of things Proficiently, they have to use blank straw men to apply all their talking points. Okay, but what you though We've we've heard the guy talk for like 10 seconds So, you know, could you at least let it play a little longer to see what the context of her thing is You're telling me you can't think of one example The only examples that they do use in this video are of like extremely graphic modern art Like I thought you said there were no examples and then you say that there are these examples What is that in the bottom right? Is that a guy doing what's a dude taking a they oh, that's a slav squatting That's a media colon something and metal. I don't know Oh, I guess like it's uh, how it was made Yeah, but the top left one he said it's made with cow dung I assume that's part of what they think is offensive possibly. I don't know This is the thing this this obviously the video he's responding to has now been butchered Um, I'm particularly annoyed that he said there were no examples and then he shows the screenshot. It's like yeah That's that's not a very that's not a very Florida brain take right there Bad example. That's a bad example You're talking about like warhol and then you're talking about like the pissing woman statue Well to you I thought you were saying like someone could find these equally offensive or artistically Maritable because it's all subjective anyway in terms of how ugly or beautiful you find them Because it seems like he's drawing the distinction out, doesn't it? You can't you can't be saying that these two are of equal standing in terms of how beautiful they are It depends on the political meaning behind them, I guess Do you have a robot nick like little sticker on his uh microphone there? Yeah, he does I didn't mention it earlier, but I could have I I just noticed Actually comparable michael angelo carved his david out of a rock The los angeles county museum of art just offers us a rock A rock all three hundred and forty tons of it That's how far standards have fallen again more deceptive language more lying by omission Everything you just said I assume is true I assume it's it's gonna be pretty hard to because from what he just said unless the rock No, it doesn't matter what can't the fact that he said there is a rock. Is that wrong? Yeah, I mean, I mean michael angelo did carve Like and if this one is just a rock if it is just a rock It's like titanically less impressive And if it's like You don't know though that the guy who put the rock there went through, you know a civil war It is the original country, but he's like, ah, blah, blah, blah. Is it a rock? Yeah, but the rock was taken from his original. He's like, ah Just is was it a rock? Why are you saying this like the he's immediately talking about how the guy's like lying deceptive language? Look what he's done the propagandist Which is weird to almost like hype up how incredible Michelangelo's accomplishment was was to say he carved it from a rock It was just a rock before but now look at what he's made out of it That's a credit to the artist if anything else. I guess it can be used In a dismissive way, but I imagine that for the most but I guess I imagine that that's his point right Is like oh Michelangelo. Yeah, you know carbon out of a rock hyping that up hyping that one up Well, just saying the other one like I just is it a rock? Is it a rock that's just sitting there? That's what I want to know If it's a rock that's just sitting there, it's gonna be it's it's gonna be a little bit further down from the fucking david Well, that's the thing that's the comparison clearly. So if you're gonna say like he's being deceptive because he hasn't explained what I'm guessing by the way because the You remember the intro to this video is that he went to galleries to understand the histories behind the thing And so he's going to explain the history behind the the rock And then it's going to be like you see there was a lot more to this than you might think And unless he's going to be talking about the construction or that it was chiseled in that particular way through a lot of time and effort Don't think my opinion is going to change that much, but let's see and Again going from the additional contest. He's going to give us Listening to the preg you guy again. Do you feel that he was deceptive? All right, so listen to him and then listen to the the additional context who carved his david out of a rock The los angeles county museum of art just offers us a rock A rock All 340 tons of it if you walk that's how far standards have fallen again more deceptive language more lying by omission We all know michael angelo and his classic rock, but weird that he left the artist out of the second one, right? That's just the l.a. County museum of arts is rock. It's actually called levitated mass if you even care It's by michael hyzer. I've seen it in person and it's really cool. What robert forks leaves out of this video Is the actual experience of oh, you just walk under it. It's not just a rock that you look at like other sculptures It's a sculpture that you walk. All right I'm standing directly tens of thousands of pounds of rock you could do anything around it suspended just enough by these small Yeah, yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. So this is the thing. Do you feel the preggy man was deceptive? He was it is just a rock you I guess You could walk under it and that's not typically how you engage with boulders No, you don't see them come below so I would say you have to be pretty fucking harsh to say that uh The preggy man left out incredibly important context I would argue instead That he's clearly not phased at all by the you can walk underneath it and read about what it means Part of the art he's more phased by the construction that The clear rate of it is that is not that he's trying to misalige you it's that his true perceived Yeah, like his true perception of it is it's just a rock like sitting there Not that he's lying to you Yeah, his phrasing of it as it's just a rock like that Makes that's not deceptive That's him structuring a sentence to make clear that his opinion is that it is just a rock Which is a you know in contrast to the to the statue Yeah to help illustrate after this whole explanation preggy man's response would be so it's just a rock Probably yeah, and then this guy would be like wow. You're still deceiving people. It's like well I do I think we can probably assume that preggy you guy knew that you could walk under it right like I don't know if this is some famous rock. I guess it must be Well, yeah, and and I think it's more interesting to us. He's like he left the artist's name out of it There's like why do you think he did that? He doesn't see this as like a thing that was created by an artist necessarily It's just a rock that was moved from one place to another Which yeah, uh, we were talking about artistic expression what it means to qualify as art We would probably say this absolutely does qualify, but man, you know it's just We're now into Why that it's even arranged and like all of the structures surrounding it that are supporting it. Yeah, sure I'd say that. Yeah. No, I I do think it qualifies, but you can understand why someone would say this versus david That's a rock. I mean, it's pretty obvious, right? You think about like david and the fact that it was carved from stone and how long it would have taken And how and the process behind it versus putting a rock on a like a thing above you suspending it It's just like intuitively. It's just it just seems like it's lesser It kind of to me seems like the difference between let's say watching the lord of the rings and watching 12 hours of footage from your ring doorbell like maybe maybe some pretty interesting stuff happens in front of your house, but um, it's not structured it's not intentional and I Would completely understand someone saying that it isn't art, but then I could also understand someone saying that it is So like the difference is that the the preger you guy is saying Or it he hasn't said but he's implying that the rock is not a piece of art or at least if it is a piece of art It's not on the same level as the statue What this guy seems to be saying is that preger you guy is lying or is being deceitful or or manipulative or whatever He doesn't think that his opinion is genuine seemingly yeah, because people are mentioning the The guy who made it is prominent and it's like, yeah the point isn't uh, the I think you should credit the artist no matter what I'm saying that the fact that he's not the implication of his statement is that it's um Michelangelo's david is like a Expert amazing thing that he crafted from rock versus a rock like you get It's it's for the effect of trying to illustrate what's gone wrong But of course I would even this is not the defense. I would give of it I would probably argue that these are completely different mediums with a completely different intentions I don't think like compete with each other. Yeah, would it be you want to take the greatest Like you want to take the greatest of each probably would be a better comparison You know Sorry rags, um, would it be fair to say that like the comparison that he's making between the rock and the statue would be like if For example, he didn't like preger you guy didn't like Jackson Pollock because it's just like random spatterings of paint Or like that's what he perceives it as and he would have compared like say the Mona Lisa was You know painted and he gives a bunch of information about it and these days we just get It's just random spatterings of paint. It's like come on. That was Jackson Pollock or it is Jackson Pollock, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, and it's like he's he's famous but okay by emitting the name You're kind of making the point that I I don't care who did it. It's just a spattering of paint or in this case It's just a rock which is his perspective Yeah, the way you might phrase that is that we had like incredibly perfectly crafted painting versus just paint Yes Yeah, because that is the point that the uh, pray you master and make This is why I don't see it as deceptive. Uh, he's more trying to insult this work Yeah, I don't think I agree with him, but What he's saying it makes sense Well, because he said something about um, we've we've uh, our standards have of like declined And I guess what he's trying to imply with that is that people will see this and be like, well Who is amazing and great in the same way that they may have with uh, Michelangelo's David and he's like, how how is it that we've how are these getting the same reaction? That's insane that is obviously his perspective Yeah, which is a whole conversation on his own, but my response wouldn't be a bro You left out that you can walk underneath it and that you uh, you didn't mention who made it and that it's Supposed to represent blah blah blah. I was just like, yeah, but it's really not hitting the subsets of what he thinks It's almost like they would have the opposite effect that by saying you didn't even mention you could walk under it It's like, yeah, it's like, okay. Yeah, it's uh, all right. Is that Is that a key part of the experience? That's it, isn't it? That's the thing The better argument would have been to like explain what's around it or the way that it's arranged Like to just describe that it isn't just a rock like it's part of a bigger thing a bigger structure That might have yeah, maybe it's part of like a big like landscape garden In the imagery he involved the fact that there was a pathway you could see it Rags even said uh, oh sure sure that uh, I guess when I saw that I had no idea what that meant Like I didn't find that now the image makes sense to me having seen it But at the time I was like, why is there like a a concrete pathway like leading to the rock is like Is it like a concrete path that narrows to the rock sitting there? It wasn't super cool to me because I've never heard of this before. Yeah, no That is art. It's easy to dismiss But to be pretty human didn't say it wasn't all right. He said it was shit. Well, he's saying it's more than He implies that it's bad Yeah, which I mean, you know, I feel like that's much more defensible than it's not art Either when you've never seen it in person most physical art Especially sculpture was never meant to be looked at on a fucking screen. It's like watching the theater But you would have to agree that if I saw like a picture of david that I would get more From that even if I can't see it in person then a picture of this rock He was nuts as well in terms of the experience of perceiving it We had like a hyper 8k you know 4d Scan or whatever of of david from every last inch and then you could Go into vr and move around it fully zoom into any part you want and even go from like top down Right places that you likely wouldn't be able to in the original presentation of it Does that Then mean that the experience in that vr is like because the implication here was that it's superior to see it As it's intended I think you just had to be careful with the language there, right as intended versus better or worse because you don't want to say Yeah, that's right Because I think we're all happy to concede seeing a pyramid in person versus on google images, right? It's like sure Yeah, absolutely But you know senior on vr instead of google images like well, that's probably you know, this is a significant upgrade and then um But you know what uh Like that example with david is like if you got that experience So you could look at anything and into a fine detail that you probably can't even do In real life like how close you can get to it. Maybe you can zoom into the fucking Molecules That's the thing that offers in the vr experience is like does that mean it's a better experience now Does it mean it's a different experience? Does the artistic quality go to someone else? I don't know It's just that The implication of course is that we recognize what this is until we go and walk underneath it ourselves We shouldn't be allowed to comment on the quality of the experience. I suppose and it's like, okay Fine, but you're still talking about the fact that it's a rock, right Yeah, um, I was gonna say does do you because I don't quite know where I stand on this Do you think that the Effort that you have to go through in order to experience a piece of art like Going to the cinema for example rather than streaming on netflix or climbing ever is versus viewing a picture of the top or something um That I don't I don't want to say that that makes it more art because of what I said earlier And I'm trying to get it straight in my head But uh, I feel like that would definitely have the potential to make it more meaningful Um, well, I mean you could change it to a more common one playing the video game on a different difficulty Is gonna ultimately create a different experience in your mind And if you play it on I don't know easy mode versus you will accomplish it on very very hard mode That that will create like a different sort of feeling about the the art that you've consumed That's true. Yeah, I'm like next the potency for sure of how you value and it can change your opinion on it in a way that's more I guess quantifiable like that you can point to more Rigid metrics for it, you know how does the game play on easy versus very hard difficulty? so I mean the way that you experience it as a part of it for sure Like the medium especially if you're talking about like a picture of this rock compared to seeing the rock Or a video of the rock compared to a picture of the rock, you know Yeah, like being you know as this video just showed being underneath that rock and being like holy shit This thing's big it's heavy and maybe you know thinking about I mean I probably wouldn't think this because I'd find it fucking boring But there's a whole bunch of stuff you could be thinking about while standing underneath this gigantic 300 ton rock or whatever it is Um that you don't get from just looking at the video, but that isn't a comparable experience to looking at Michelangelo's David At least I wouldn't say so They're complete. It's like, you know, listening to a song versus looking at a Painting, you know, they're completely different essentially And things get complicated with like if you Just finalize your divorce and then you go and see this thing versus you just had the birth of your child and you go and see this thing Like it that's gonna factor in him normally Age Yeah, you know how old were you when you saw something? What life experiences did you have when you saw it the first time versus the second time versus the third time? According of half of a movie. You didn't really see it. They do is levitating mass everyone's favorite sculpture No, it's not even mine, but if someone told me their favorite Was Michelangelo's David then it probably means that they don't really know about any other ones levitating. What? David's really good my dude. It's also very famous I guess that's his point, but I would make that point in reverse I'd be like well the reason it gets mentioned is because it's famous like a lot of Yeah, fame often feeds into itself. Yeah He could have said Mona Lisa same Well, it's just the reason why it's a lot of people's favorite is because more people get exposed to it than other You know sculptures Well, I mean that was just pretentious move on. Yeah Your favorite thing is this wow your lame. No, I bet you've never seen another statue Favorite statue was Michelangelo's David then it probably means that they don't really know about any other ones Levitating mass is built to stand exactly like that for thousands of years. That's longer than David statue is going to be around. So if that's not cool, that's not true What does this have to do with anything? Yeah, I guess I was just focused on the accuracy of the statement But like also yeah, what the fuck does this have to do with anything? It's gonna last longer There's no way that he's going to apply this same argument to some piece of modern art that's designed to deteriorate rapidly Well, the fucking robot that that is designed to run out of uh energy it did and it's it's been packed away now Done. Yeah, exactly. So I don't even know why you brought this up What a What a dumb thing to say and I imagine that somebody would yeah, I imagine the easy retort someone would make is yeah So I do the pyramids, but I can see how the pyramids took a lot more work than the the rock. Yeah To you, uh, let's see who has more statues in 3000 years. Whatever their intentions. What does that do? Like what does that do with anything? Statues you have you could just be memeing. I don't know if he actually thinks that the integrity of the Itself has any relevance to how like why would Well, that's the problem with these videos that would be terrible. I can't tell oftentimes Yeah, the structure of this is shit, but all right, let's go modernists sewed the seeds of aesthetic relativism The beauty is in the eye of the beholder mentality. I guess the art expert here All right, so is he saying that the beginning of the end was impressionism Probably Okay, all right. Well, that's an interesting thought if he considers it the beginning of the end not the end You know as in like this merit Impressionism is still chill, but it's so the seeds of the destruction I don't know because I've seen the video the new modernists sewed the seeds of aesthetic relativism The beauty is in the eye of the beholder mentality. I ask the art expert here to tell us that art can be I mean he is an art guy, right? Wasn't he? Yeah He doesn't seem to be any more any less of a He certainly seems to be more of an art. I don't know You're sure I don't know. I remember the one he popped up on screen that said that he was an artist Sorry, yeah, I'm not sure what his credentials are. Yeah, I don't know. Um who he is exactly but Uh, I feel like what he just said isn't something you can disagree with like just Hear me out. It what is in this clip. Can you disagree with what he says? For their intentions the new modernists sewed the seeds of aesthetic relativism The beauty is in the eye of the beholder mentality. I well, yeah, like is he saying something that's wrong? Or do you not like the implication? Yeah, I think he's going with it He's like he's like responding to the idea that the guy just said this is bad But like you got to wait for him to say that Because for now he just said that they introduced this idea which The interest to me is that I want to know if he thinks the it's okay to introduce the idea, but that it's uh, run amok, you know And There's something to think about but like He's in studies, uh, bitten his head off straight away Yes, the art expert here to tell us that art can be scientifically measured and is objective It just needs to look like real life and the more you could do that That is a scale you can use That's not what he said. Damn it. That isn't what he said, but that is also a scale you can use though You can use that it is a standard Your scale is essentially true to life then you can create some kind of grading system for how true to life something is I suppose Yeah, but he's he's just conflated Being able to objectively qualify art With how realistic it is Yeah, he's I guess he's done that because he's ran away with again because impressionism is like Deviating from an attempt to create something what? Okay, um Fringy, what do you think about the Mona Lisa? What what do you think what do you think I think I think it's cool I it's not like my favorite painting, but I think it's cool and I think it's pretty cool Well, I want you to think about how you feel about the Mona Lisa What it makes you think about how skillful you consider it Maybe it's legacy and art history. It's value to civilization And I want you to hear it This that zigzore just made So I don't want to over exaggerate, but I feel like this is a strict improvement I mean, I update you. I think I think this is pretty cool I think this might be the profile picture for the stream. Hold on. I'll sort that out in a second That is really cool. Did they work on this since the beginning of this stream? Yeah, he said listening to the stream now art is fun. Here's some art for you He says I call it the Fringy Lisa You made this in a few hours. That's really cool, man I don't know. Yeah. I I mean regardless of how long it took you to make it This is very cool and I like it a lot and it's making me smile, especially the beefy grin It doesn't have teeth Yeah, that's why I like it I like it behind the lips there. I uh, I like it I like the addition of the little shrek ears as well It took a took a bit more than an hour to do which is insane I mean, of course Aside from the memeing as well like the the actual painting is really like cool Like is really impressive. The shading on the breasts is just wonderful. Nice. Yeah, the shading on the boobies is real nice and on the helmet Well the helmet is I mean Mosk and helmet and head Because it's like it's a new creature. It's a new being. All right. Let's uh, let's make that the propo pitch That's that's really good That's really cool. That's incredible the Friggy Lisa You are bald You're balding Like we like it looks the better at it. This guy has the brain of a fish today. Everybody loves the Do you even let him make a point you just declared like what I see is as a relatively Undeniable statement and then you just went and mad at him. Let it let him make bad points. Let him let it play the clips Allow him to make those bad points. Yeah And the more like real life it looks the better at it. This guy has the brain of a fish today Everybody loves the impressionist And as with most revolutions the first generation or so Produced work of genuine. Ah, yep. There you go. Right. So he does like impressionism and think it's cool And he thinks it's run amok afterward So Okay, because I was about to get really mad if he was going to say that impressionism sucks That was that would have been super lame, but it sounds like that's not even his point Yeah, if I can I just want to hear him again. I has the brain of a fish today Everybody loves the impressionist And as with most revolutions the first generation or so produced work of genuine merit So I feel like that's not what he told us. He said Well, yeah, because I mean Why would you make the argument that he's saying that there's like some objective metric for judging beauty based on realism when he admits Then impressionism, which is not realistic has a lot of value and that there's a lot of great pieces of impressionist genuine merit That's a compliment I mean I I would be Yeah, like I don't even know what to do with that. It's like if it was like you totally misinterpret like wow Monet Renoir and Degas. He's even given examples was even given you examples. Yeah I like that one, uh, the water lily pond phones. I like impressionist paintings of water They always look really really cool very pained elements of disciplined design and execution So much like a disappointed father, robert florck zack says that impressionism is this it's all right. I guess That's a really you showed us the clip and that was your summary He was like it started out real strong and then you know iteration It's it's uh broken apart that you say he says that it's all right. I guess If you're going to lie about him, you could at least cut out the bit where he says Yeah, don't make it hard on yourself by playing the thing right before you lie Holy shit That's bad. I'll give it a pass because it still looks like the boring paintings. I like what the What are you talking about paintings you like because a banana tape to the wall is so fucking excited Why do this? Why make like, why would you say that boring like you're so antagonistic? I want to begin with trying to unpack that. Ah, yes the boring paintings Yeah But with each new generation standards declined until their This graph is particularly His data is but of course But this follows his uh his point that's been made in the video that just art standards have fallen over time That's the big point. He's trying to make Uh, like the standard. I mean, I mean, I'm saying that we don't necessarily agree with him, but like You know what this guy is responding to seems to always be like tangential points. He's not even making I I guess uh because the reason why I find this awkward is it's like the implication When there's like still so much I I guess what you would call more conventional traditional art being made today You know what I mean, like it almost seems like people can get too fixed It's like, ah modern art the prevailing form of art that is being made right now And it's like, um, I mean there's a lot of just like regular normal conventional Incredible art. Yeah By the way, I don't know what happened in the 1940s, but it all went wrong It all went wrong in the 90s. The 19 this was hitlers doing by the 1960s. It was over Is that when the yeah, it's the 40s to the 60s was the the absolute destruction of that again Yeah, that's when they put the rock there and then it What is what is wikipedia saying modern art is because i'm pretty sure that modern art at this point Isn't even modern anymore like as a category. Yeah, replace New stuff like people who are my post modern, uh, it's a lot of It takes up a lot of like discussion as well. Yeah Good old wikipedia says it's stuff that was made from the 1860s to the 1970s So at this point modern art drawn to its latest date isn't even that modern anymore Again, I don't feel like that's what people think of when they think of modern art They think of the toilet in the middle of the Yeah, which I think a lot more people would describe as post modern instead of modern All that was left was personal expression I don't really have anything to say other than this is just a fake. So that's kind of an interesting Well, I mean, of course, it's a fake graph But the interesting thing is I think that that's kind of like a big part of the discussion is how how much in terms of determining whether art is art is based on creative expression versus Like how good you are at realizing something Uh talent essentially is art expression plus talent or is art just expression? Which I guess is point. I wasn't getting the sense that he was talking about whether or not it is art is whether or not it's it's good Uh, oh Yeah, yeah, sure. Um that like that in terms of determining metrics for good or bad anymore That doesn't exist. The only thing that exists in matters is the fact that it is creative expression Yeah, which is kind of like an interesting conversation to have because I really really really really really really don't want to devalue The importance of like actually being really talented Yeah, the craft. I mean the craft seems like it's got to be hyper important because the craft is ultimately determining the experience that you Like what does it mean? What is a film without the craft of filmmaking? Right? I like what does it mean for uh Yeah, well, no, I mean it does have like, you know, it's got people standing in the camera that are framed. Oh, I see what you mean But what I what I mean is that um, it's like the the the craft it's like the expression it's There has to be some amount of craft like invariably otherwise it doesn't exist You know what I mean? Like what does it mean to express without some amount of craft craft is like the thing that makes it Like tangible it makes it the thing that exists rather than just an idea in your head And if it was like if that's the case then there always has to be a conversation about the way that it's realized Like that that can't be removed completely from the conversation So saying that craft is always present Um, but the degree to which I don't know what I don't know what it means for there to be a piece of art that doesn't have any craft at all Even if it is like the most basic most even you know, the guy dropping the camera right the craft of even holding it in the first place They're dropping it and then it's the mountain which is nature did it Well, yeah, like what is the craft other than I guess you looking at it But even then you looking at it is not like something that you can translate to other people Like it feels like the art has to exist in some way shape or form independent of your Independent of you as the creators like you know subjective experience of reality, I suppose Do you know what I mean? Like it has to exist in some way that's legible to somebody else and that like That is the craft it has to be and then at that point you can start talking about like the quality of the craft in terms of you know If your objective is to create a very realistic painting Then you can measure how well you succeeded or failed based on you know Well, the easiest one to just go with for the helping people understand it would be life drawing It's just like Yeah, life drawing is easy one that the objective of life drawing is to create something that is true to life If you don't do that you failed Yeah, and if someone said How accurate to life doesn't determine how good it is like well it does in the context of creating a life Life drawing yeah, and in the exactly in the context of uh, whatever it is that you're going for Well, even still someone could be like nope not even then because humans don't have full perception of the universe or whatever And it's like well, it's from a human's perception with a human standard We can get past that. Yes. Well, that's the thing It almost comes back to the subjective objective stuff It's just like why why blow it up to borders that we have no ability to actually reach yet Well, it's a very helpful is it? No, I want to have a conversation about it and like i'm a human I can't divorce myself. I'm a human you're a human we have human tools and we're analyzing a human perception So it's all human and that of course, you know how much stock we want to put in the fact that there are sort of generalities in terms of the things that people consider to be beautiful and the things that people consider to be ugly You know, I mean that exists that definitely exists in terms of broad trends what people like and dislike um Yeah means nothing. Oh god forbid art be reflective of an artist's personality and life experience Yeah, that's not that's not all what he said. You're saying the sole focus is on expression How can he even say that this guy believes that? I mean landscape painting in some way even if you're trying to make it realistic Would have to reflect the artist's like interest and passion for like nature itself It was it was very easy to understand He basically said like there was a high standard for craft While expressing yourself and it's moved into simply expressing yourself and then this guy is like oh god forbid an artist expresses themselves And it's like that's just you just not addressing him like at all Yeah, you're really not engaging with this video that you chose to engage with He doesn't like it feels like we're taking a piss right? You have to accept that the guy who made this video believes that like the purpose of art to some extent is personal creative expression You know, he's an even conservative who just wants to What does he even mean to have the passion or the idea to create something if you don't remember? So they creatively bankrupt Ah, yes, of course. Yeah Creatively and I would hate that. This sort of gives the game away for Robert. What he's telling us is that You've given the game away multiple times. Yeah Was it 30 seconds in? Yeah, he gave it away after like a minute Is basically another way to look at pretty pictures of people in mountains, which is great What a way to summarize that shit, man People in mountains like oh, yeah What is on like landscape painting? Oh, yeah people Oh, so this is what I mean. He called the boulder a rock I uh, yeah, that's right. He called the boulder a rock, but he's acceptable beautiful landscapes It's like, oh, yeah, just you know people in mountain. What the fuck man Yeah, and I'm still waiting for him to take this Why I don't understand why you can't defend modern art without like fucking tearing down You know one and attacking points the guy didn't make like come on Do better. Yeah, get all the people in the mountains you want But to imply that modern art is inferior because it doesn't meet the extremely restrictive guidelines that Robert specifically and arbitrarily has um, he He didn't necessarily give us what the standards were exactly. Um Well, it's nice to be dead. I haven't seen. Yeah, we haven't been shown that yet I think I'm missing that part of the video He was appealing to like the we've moved from having For aspiring to any standard at all and just we just go nuts. That seems to be his point of view His argument is that We yeah, we have devalued the prop to the point that It's it's like irrelevant to the conversation about art I mean, that's not like a crazy perspective to have. It's normal. I think A very normal thing Pretentious So because this Prager you video is Sorry pretentious. Can we rewind what he said the extremely restrictive guidelines that Robert specifically and arbitrarily has I mean, that's pretentious Because you just said that oh, yeah Look at the pretty paintings of the pretty people in the mountains like come on Come on This video is hyper pretentious. You said like people who like Michelangelo's David. They haven't even seen statues I really I kind of dislike that there's almost this implication that you couldn't earnestly enjoy landscape paintings You know what? I mean, it's almost like the implication as well. You know, you're pretty boring You don't have very interesting taste and odd or like yeah, you fell victim to the propaganda It couldn't be that you just genuinely like Landscape paintings. Well, again, is he not becoming the caricature he wrote for the other side? You'll stand in there looking at this thing this banana and you're like, uh, and then he's like you've been tricked You've been tricked. I'm telling you that you need to understand you've been tricked It's like it feels like you're trying to trick me man. Like is this what I actually believe Yeah, I uh, I also find it quite funny. I don't know if you guys know the south park episode where stan is Being pretentious for some reason. I can't remember exactly and he keeps doing this little laugh After he said he's explaining something and he just kind of goes Every time he says something and he's talking down to kyle This guy just did that after he said the word pretentious. He gave a little sarcastic laugh I can't remember that one, but I remember that it was when uh, when it was with the hybrid cars where it was that, you know Uh, they were becoming so smug that we were always talking with our eyes closed It's like, well, you know, I just care so much about the earth, you know Good for you This prager you video is formatted like a middle school persuasive essay this I wouldn't know because you chopped it to hell and back I mean, I like I don't do much better now. Sorry for you. Your structure is really bad To be the bearer of bad news, but like the structure of this video is really f***ing jarring Is the counter argument paragraph uh in this segment robert says that art can be objectively measured By looking at the great art historian jacob rosenberg wrote that quality in art is not merely a matter of personal opinion But to a high degree objectively traceable. Well, what was he referring to when he said that? Yeah That quote on it. So I mean, maybe he's saying outright the quote cannot be true But the problem is like again like life drawing is the easy one to go to You you draw the arm of a person and then your f***ing teacher is like you you haven't got the shading, right? The anatomy is just off the there like there's a dip there. You haven't done stuff like that It's like you can call that objectively traceable I guess the interesting thing is the fact that the quote even says to a high degree concedes that it's not Hotality, it's not to a total degree. It isn't absolutely everything. It isn't the be all and end all a drax arm Yes, you could have objectively traced how accurate that drax arm is to drax Okay, it's true Oh god that drax arm my I mean that's an interesting one, right when it comes to like a lot of the time The objective of visual effects is to achieve photorealism. Oh by the way Uh someone has highlighted this and it is worth pointing out. There's uh the dot dot dot anything could be between that and objectively anything Who knows? Yes, but you well you could argue it's on the behalf of the video from preggyu But surely surely it's on the responsibility of the response video to find out what the actual quote is about Yeah, because now i'm curious what the what they are the quote is in full But the idea of a universal standard of quality and art is now usually met with strong resistance if not open ridicule How can art be objectively measured i'm challenged in responding? I simply point to the artistic results produced by universal standards compared to what is produced by relativism His first example standards Yeah, that's still pretty big I'm not sure I like that argument Well to be fair If you create something two things exist and the whole world loves one while half the world loves the other Which one's better? It's like clearly the first one is like, I don't know about that Just because we use that metric because by that metric transformers is better than sure shank. Yeah, which I don't yeah I think I think it's a shitty standard. Um, but yeah Yeah, um, I would disagree with this people is birth of venus Well, what okay, what just happened we're going back hang on I simply point to the artistic results produced by universal standards compared to what is produced by relativism His first example is birth of venus. Why'd you sound like one of the most famous paintings of all time? Um, also why I thought you didn't give examples, sir He only gives silly examples God it's so annoying. Also, uh, I guess if we let it play, uh, he's about to give his reasoning for why the birth of venus is, uh, Not good So When when the uh, when the guy in the pregu video says universal standards because it sounds like the Is the the argument he's making is what are the results that you get from universal standards for like art versus relativism? Does he mean by universal standards? Basically, you get better results when I don't know we form some kind of consensus on what we consider to be good or bad But those are But those just happen like naturally those are just sort of like emergent things that occur What he would appeal to right? It would appeal to those emergent Uh, no, okay. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I'm unclear on exactly what pregu man thinks But I want to know what he thinks about birth venus the venus, which I don't that I don't know about that one I don't get it waves don't even look like that What is this so sure but like the birth of venus is a mask But who are you arguing with? And it is a huge painter, but it is not the piece that robert wants to bring out when we're talking about artistic objectivity compositionally little crowded very again, the anatomy is I mean, I guess I can respect the confidence with which to do this, but like yeah, it's It takes a certain amount of confidence to just crowded That's not how waves work. It's crowded and flat Like okay, my dude. Um, all right. If you say I respect the confidence Yeah, it takes some balls. We'll have to again see where he goes with it Again, he's equating Objective quality with realism Yeah, this is what I don't know what you man thinks exactly So it's hard to parody him when I don't know what he thinks that's a problem No, the fact that pray do you man likes? Likes impressionism to some extent Means that his metric can't just be realism. It can't just be that Yeah Like impression is realistic. It isn't realistic. So like it has to be something different. Yeah Give me wrong and it is a huge painter But it is not the piece that robert wants to bring out when we're talking about artistic objectivity compositionally Little crowded very first. I mean that's kind of interesting that he would even like what do you mean? What is it? Are you saying that it is like objectively? What does that mean? What if it's supposed to be crowded? Bad I don't know what it's a big mistake. Why would you say that? And dull just like the colors which is a product of its time But dull man colors to him dude. What what does it mean for the colors to be objectively dull? What does that mean my man? Like what does that mean? That that's that's kind of like saying like I'm not a fan of the Beatles really I just don't None of their music does anything for me But that's kind of like saying that x beetle song is bad Because the audio quality because of the the gear that they had to work with back then is not up to today's standards That way an interesting question though already about like how do you how do how do we value it? Based on the tools that people had at the time And also a lot of that stuff just is aged since then I mean it will not get brighter since then but yeah, if you if you look at uh channels that do like recreation or re sorry recreations Or um restorations of art. They're they're actually very vibrant and bright oftentimes We just see them after many hundreds of years. So they seem that way That's the meme with our old, you know greek and roman uh Statues as often perceiving them as you know that they were always made white when it's like a lot of them were Had color. It's just that the color is worn away Yeah And yeah, well brome was Colorful, you know, like absolutely people liked color Yeah, medieval peasants. They wore like colors Isn't that an interesting thing in terms of like art evolution, right? Because like obviously there's a lot of greek influence in like american, you know, like national Architecture, right like the you know, the white house the capital building and all those things And they're like a lot of it is derived from Sort of like what it was perceived as being Uh when it wasn't quite that way in terms of you know color or lack thereof. That's kind of interesting to me it seems kind of Uh color color was invented after world war one, right? Uh, that's yeah, it's true actually. I yeah, yeah with with a bit of history there. Yeah And this seems to me kind of like he's it seems kind of like if you were to criticize the Statue of Liberty for being too green Because it was Because um, I just saw someone in chat say is he saying it's like dull because it's not as vivid The problem is that again, are we saying that vivid is better? Like what is the implication is the implication that it's worse, but like dull That's a that's a very uh loose word, you know It's uh and and like the idea that you can attach quality to whether it is like, you know More vivid more saturated versus more washed out or more dull. It's like, all right. Let's uh Let's let's pump the brakes here You know to say that the painting is dull and that that would be like a bad example to bring up because that's not Very objectively good is is like bizarre. That's the fucking weird things to say The way it is but I unlike Robert can find value and appreciate art that I think is really Okay, you can find value and fucking anything That doesn't like that doesn't change anything necessarily That wasn't it's like he's saying um if Robert looked at you know that painting and then Came away being like wow the craft that went into that and then Looked at someone else like his kids painting that he just splattered something like his hand when he was Six months old onto a page and and he's like wow Robert You must think that that's worthless because it it took so little This is what I mean. It's like you need to treat these people as human beings You can't just look at them as cartoons Do you really think Robert would never say that there could be value to a piece of artwork beyond its craft? The easy meme is oh look Hey, dad, I you know I drew I drew this picture and then you know the the parent like looks and it's like Oh, well, I love this right because of the sentimental value because it was their child that made it That's my whole point with the Paint hand on a piece of paper, especially a six-month-old who doesn't know what the fuck they're doing Yeah, you're like look they've been a handprint. I'm gonna be like I can make a handprint. Why the fuck do you care? It's like my fucking beans exactly Yeah, like I'll be and the idea that this guy would be like Whatever the composition Objectively speaking the handprint is too crowded and dull Try again He colored outside the lines What a finger to space ratio is just out of whack Unacceptable It sucks odilon redon painted his own version of the birth of venus in 1912 And while it's hard to compare because they're two completely different works. I mean, this is so much better. It's got What that sucks, mate I'm gonna say it sucks. I just don't like it as much. I think it's as good as the other one. No, it's it's uh Um, you know what good job Good on you, man Let me guess the reason why this is better is because of the paragraph that came with it Because he taped it to a wall so it's better Better it's got style and flavor. Oh shut up as if the other one What is flavor? Yeah, exactly style and flavor. What does any of what are any of those words mean? What do they really mean? So like the idea that this is good art discussion pisses me off This is like, oh, yeah, no, it's got more style and flavor that are my job. It's done. You know my work is done here So earlier when he was criticizing what sucks, that's how it is When he was um criticizing the uh, the previous version he was saying that it was too dull Um, you couldn't measure how dull something is like that's an objective standard Whether it's good or bad is a different question, but you can measure it You can't measure. What did he say just now style and what was the other word? Uh flavor Yeah, so those are not objectively quantifiable. Well, yeah, I don't know if that's why I need to know what he means because flavor on its own It's like I was assuming you're not tasting the paintings. Do you want to tell me what you mean by flavor? It's savory I'm fine by the way with describing that something has a unique flavor when talking about something you're not eating I just need like that's on its own is so vague. I don't know what you mean An emotion. It's a great piece. Oh an emotion by the way. There's more motion flavor and style. Jeez Yeah, the original didn't you're in a shot and really good art discussion is super lame And by the way not claiming that we are revolutionary Roushabushifying art discussion either but like come on You could try a little harder But unfortunately like Robert says without aesthetic standards, we have no way to determine quality or inferiority Which is the same as saying I'm a little baby and I need people to tell me if art is good or not Okay Without aesthetic standards, we have no way to determine quality inferiority. Uh In regards to something that is strictly aesthetic if you have no way to Analyze it then. Yeah, I guess you have no way to determine equality that that just follows. That's like a robotic statement almost Yeah Not even that, um Yeah, if if it's a painting and I have no aesthetic standard not even the standard of just how does it make me feel If if I've got no standard of aesthetic for a painting then I've got nothing Okay, how can that be equality without a standard essentially? Yeah, because if someone said like I don't have standards It's just how I feel it's like well that is a standard That is a standard. Yep So yeah, uh once again, I feel like if we were responding to the Prager U video We will be like without aesthetic standards We have no way to tell me which is like I guess so until you add more to that I don't have this isn't this is almost like self-fulfilling without a standard. We have no standard Like sure, I guess Do you want to go further than that? But his response to it is standards We have no way to determine quality or inferiority, which is the same as saying I'm a little baby and I need people to tell me if art is good or not You're just making shit up at that point if you don't have any standards You're literally just like you're just making it up on the spot based off of how it makes you feel I think it's just wrong I think you just misinterpreted what the guy was saying like I think so It sounds like he's saying that you know the guy's saying I need the standards to determine what's good or bad When the guy's actually saying if we have no way of determining what's good and bad then we can't determine what's good and bad Which is just I mean, it's self-fulfilling. It's a boring statement if anything Yeah Inferiority is an interesting choice of words as well because that implies that the only purpose of aesthetic standards would be to gatekeep art I mean technically, yes What is the point of a standard if not to gatekeep uh quality levels? Yeah, I don't want every fucking piece of shit Art in galleries like I want to celebrate things that are you know considered good and have a lot of You know meaning and effort and work and have a certain quality level to them I just I don't want like you're fucking asshole kids finger painting. I just no it doesn't belong in a gallery. No Yeah, he's using loaded language again Oh, I think he's picking on him for saying inferiority as if His goal is to try and like point out like you suck and you suck but the thing is He said determine quality or inferiority the point being you can't have one without the other That's how it works the standard you need bads to have goods and vice versa I meant his his use of the word gatekeep because it seems like that word is I mean, it's a loaded word It's like everyone knows that gatekeeping is bad, but okay. Is it in this context? Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm pretty pro gatekeeping I'm neutral on gatekeeping. It depends on the context Depends on the thing Like you know building airplanes Yeah, I definitely want to People who perform brain surgery. It's like, yes I do And it speaks to something that you said rags like at the end of the day There is like a finite amount of space in an art gallery Then our choices that need to be made about what's going to be displayed and what isn't And like what's going on? Are you going to use to decide that? Yeah, anything makes it into a gallery. No one's going to go people are going to stop going to galleries If it's just random shit in there, um I mean part of the cynical perspective is that that's not true Is that people don't even know what the difference between good and bad is anymore Well, yeah, that's the meme right of like somebody just makes some bullshit And then the guys are like, uh man, I mean it was like the fire extinguisher That wasn't a piece that people thought it was because it was the uh the the south park episode the tale of scroding mcbooga balls Where it was just like riding the most yeah Yeah, the the point stan kyle karm and kenny They just wanted to write the most offensive book possible And then everybody was reading in a bunch of stuff that wasn't there And then butters wrote a book that was called the poop that took a pee and they did the same thing It was just like just a bunch of nonsense That's crazy I want to buy that book Well, it took a pee. Yeah, wouldn't you I mean I know original butters work I mean, that's that's the thing is that I mean they all thought it was profound And I mean, of course it was the beam with the tale of scroding mcbooga balls Was that nobody could read it without vomiting profusely They just couldn't get through it Like you just have a ready ready. He's like, oh man, oh As well because that implies that the only purpose of aesthetic standards would be to gatekeep art If it's not good enough for robert, it's not good enough for the galleries Here's a test. I give my graduate students all talented in well-educated. Oh my god. So he's actually like he's an Yeah, but this random is gonna Fucking dress him down hardcore. I mean, I feel like if I had to choose between which one of these two I want teaching people a lot about art. It's the it's the old guy. I mean Something's about you Didn't the guy say before like that? He didn't like downplay substantially like his credentials Yeah, like who's this guy this art guy Teacher thing good enough for robert. It's not good enough for the galleries. Here's a test I give my graduate students all talented and well-educated Please analyze this jackson pollock painting and explain why it is good Explain why this pollock painting is good If I was an art student in grad school and robert florksack brought out this fucking Shit stain toilet paper or whatever this is and told me to tell him why it's good Dude, just ask for a college refund at that point No, like it's a thought experiment you fuck. Yeah How about you do like a thing that you do in youtube videos and engage with content and actually offer some sort of insightful perspective that isn't Obviously to make you think about like what what exactly are we appealing to when we say good if what is what even is good That's obviously the point of this Yeah, that's what we learned from wisecrack is that uh hypothetical thought experiment No, yeah, why even bother What's the point Would you refund it is only after they give very eloquent answers That I informed them that the painting is actually a close-up. Oh, that's the thing that he says without substantiating There is totally value to this To get people This is the thing if you had gotten to those people in that gallery I was talking about and said that's just a fire extinguisher I'd love to know what they have to say once they know that Oh, that's a great name. I like that Yeah, well and by the way, that's why this guy already knew that this wasn't a Jackson Pollock painting because that's why he called it a Shit stain or whatever But it's just like you understand a lot of people look at Pollock's work and think that it looks like a shit stain, right? When he said that I was like, wait, why is he saying it's a shit stain? He can't shit on Jackson Pollock, right? Like he's he's not allowed to to make this argument I don't blame them I would probably have done the same since it's nearly impossible to differentiate between the two No, yeah, it it is possible to differentiate between the two. You just have to I'd say I just agree with him Like I think when you know Pollock's work that you can tell that that wasn't Pollock's work, but I get the point. He's making Views Robert Florxac wants to flatter himself and saying that he accidentally creates Pollock pieces all the time Oh, no, just a little Pollock on my apron, but if if you know even a That's kind of funny Didn't you say that he was doing this to his students? Yes, it's right. It's a test. It's a meme right. Yeah, which means that The fact that his students aren't aware that it's not a Pollock painting means that it this guy's wrong That is interesting actually to point out. Yeah, that there is if there is a style to Jackson Pollock in a way that he does it It is interesting that if the students don't ascertain that that they just sort of buy into I'm pretty sure Gordon Ramsay's done stuff like this before as well in terms of like food to test people Oh, yeah, I remember it was on Hell's Kitchen. I think he um, he prepared Uh, he prepared something that looked really elegant, but all of the items were like bought from a grocery store. They were like really cheap Uh, basic Things and he just sort of watched them as they talked it up and then he's just like, yeah That's just like cheese out of a like a can It's like, you know what I mean just to see if they're like even taking him seriously or they're just bullshitting him Which is a really good test Yeah, remember By the way, this whole thing he needs to like completely reset and tear up like all the thinking it's it's super interesting to Not only draw a lot out of a Pollock painting, but to also draw a lot out of a fucking splat of paint on an apron Exactly It's super interesting that you could present because that's an interesting one because doesn't that speak to the nature of art Right that the way that you framed it The fact that you were framed it in this way and presented it in this way Changed the sort of attitude in the mindset that the students were bringing into that analysis. That's a fucking fascinating also like This guy will have been told at some point that like I don't know Pollock at all But like I'm gonna assume that that painting that's behind him is Pollock So this guy will have been told at some point that that painting is Pollock and that therefore it's good Yeah He called the shit stain like he hates it because there's no intention or Contacts that makes it meaningful to him Yeah, when otherwise he may not actually know so if it turned out that that was not actually Pollock and that that was just It was someone else's like apron or whatever If anyone's seen better call Saul there's a particular I think in the episodes called chicanery But that would be the ultimate double double twist of You show them that it's the apron This guy is in the room and he says I fucking knew it. I knew I knew it wasn't Pollock It's such a shit stain and then the teacher's like It is Pollock And he's like what? Like it actually is it's one of his Just to see how he deals with that because It really is so dependent at that point on what you know about it surrounding it And it really has nothing to do with the actual thing itself And I've got to make you think It's interesting because it has to make you wonder how sincere you're being In terms of your observations, how much of it is you feel compelled To say certain things because you know who it is and they have like some amount of pedigree or renown That you can't just be honest and be like, yeah, I actually didn't like it like the good Ramsey one Right. It's like, oh, yeah, like three miss one star chef. I think I had more at the time I just made this food. I mean, it's got to be good I should keep the thoughts to myself that it isn't so good you know A little bit about Pollock, then you would know that this looks nothing like it By the way, you're allowed to not know about Pollock be told This is Pollock and then ask your thoughts and feelings on why you believe it's a good painting by the way That this guy if we made if we did the whole movie bobber hitler quote version of this where it's Jackson Pollock and just other stuff And we lined up a whole bunch and said, all right, which ones are Pollock's and which ones are the imposters You wouldn't be able to nobody would I don't I'm sorry. Nobody would yeah Yeah, if you say you can Unless your name is I don't think Jackson Pollock if we got him would be like, oh, I've done so many I just can't remember I'd be willing to guess that I honestly I'll be like super charitable and I'll guess that maybe this guy who's making this video I'll assume that maybe he would be able to tell a difference No way. There's no fucking way. I don't buy it. Especially if we like um took You know, you know, I'd be curious to try and gaslight him So the ones that he says are his and are his we say that's not one of his And then just to see him look at him be like fuck. Really? Okay See if I'll give it And then you're like no was and he's like fuck is it Talk more about Pollock later though, and who will determine quality is another challenge. I'm given If we are to be intellectually honest We all know of situations where professional expertise is acknowledged and depended upon Sort of point out this man has interesting hair Isn't that interesting it seems like No, I kind of like it's it's like fluffy and curly sort of right and it is voluminous But only in a very like the back half. He has he has I wish I wish he hadn't Because before I wasn't noticing but now that you've drawn attention to his head Yeah, now I'm noticing his hairline's pretty far back on his head. Yeah, it's it's like someone It's like sort of like normalish kind of hair But you've just like rotated it about 90 degrees back and now that's where it is Like it's slipped and it's fallen behind him and he needs to pull it back up to the top, you know He has a he has a full head of hair, but it's on the back of his head Yeah, yeah, he does have a full head of hair. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah He's molding because he's angry that he's wrong about it. He's angry about the impressionists I yeah, I'm pretty sure make canyons xqc. That was really funny. Oh god. Yes Oh, yeah, if anyone doesn't know um xqc's got his own meat canyon video now, and it's amazing when you should see it The xqc is like a goblin man sitting in his chair rolling around and sucking people's eyes out of their sockets and putting them in a little vase It is a view. It's not like you really need them jet, but you know I watched another thing this with seed is meet the papa beat watching xqc watch that animation And you know what he just I find to say I love how wholesome Papa meet is he he seems to have the most fun when xqc is laughing Like he's the happiest at that point Did you mention that xqc's reaction to that video was only like Well, was it 10 seconds longer than the I even say that What the the fact that he could have paused on the first frame and just talked about how he was drawn You know as like this disheveled, you know skinny lanky the fact that he like crawls around He crawls around and he's attached to his chair Yeah, his chair attached And just the fact that he keeps saying chat over and over. There's no way to run chat. There's no way to run So don't even bother chat No, I would take your eyes. I'll take your eyes. I would take them away chat It's so good Things where professional expertise is acknowledged and depended upon. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Robert Florksack Wants to to be the guy who determines quality. I think uh, This is the thing the question you're trying to answer is really fucking difficult. Where does quality come from? It's like, um The best we've got is the people create disciplines And then they kind of like create standards and then achieve highly in those standards and then they become relied upon for uh What the quality isn't isn't ramsey would probably be just the cooking version of that, right? It's all kinds well Yeah, there would and and and even even in those disciplines like gordon ramsey or marco p.r Wide or any of those guys would still say like you have a pallet and you can trust your pallet and lean into that path Like I don't know that you would ever find a place where there would be like an absolutely iron clad completely and utterly rigid like quality system even in You know, even in disciplines where there would be accepted, you know experts and Generally accepted ways of doing things. Yeah, that's no you will find stuff like if the food is rotten you've lost That's it. There's no. Oh, yeah, sure. Sure. Like if it's under cooked, it's under cooked, right? If you can't eat it then, you know, like how about if you made a delicious dish that was like It tasted phenomenal and it was unique and it just inspired but it was totally like exotic In terms of its presentation and its Ingredients, I don't know how much like pushback you're really going to get if ultimately it is delicious Yeah, exactly because it's I mean cooking is art. Obviously, especially, you know, especially we're talking about like Yeah, do people disagree with that one too cooking is art probably probably there'll be someone in chat Yeah We'll be the brave one to say that you're I mean, yeah, I mean if you're feeling particularly But the point would be that even like I don't know that you would find many people in like in in these sorts of disciplines who would say that there was like an iron clad Sort of rule for like good or bad that there was no amount of Deviation or whatever from those systems, but it almost seems like the video guys like ran off with a kind of crazy conclusion of like Oh, yeah, this guy wants me to soul deter Yeah, I know right. That's crazy this time the soul determiner of art I imagine that this guy would absolutely not say the fact that he even conceded Wow, not even conceded. That's a bad way of framing it. The fact that he would say the impressionist who deviated from the traditional um Like sort of artistic disciplines of the time created something of value obviously speaks to a flexibility in his mindset on quality Yep, like how uncharitable do we need to be? Pended upon. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Robert Florsack wants to to be the guy who determines quality Or maybe his son Philly Florsack, but I mean you You know, you said that you thought that the repainting was better than the original Yep So There was more flavor style and emotion. Yeah, that's right. Would he say that that's his opinion though? I mean probably but but I mean what Like I guess I find it interesting the the brazenness with which he said it was better It because it almost implies that it's beyond that like what does it mean to say? It is more it has more emotion and flavor That is like not quantifiable in any way shape or form. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, like when you say these words, I need you to link back to something that we can share When you say it's got more flavor, you're gonna have to tell me what you mean Like point to a point to a part of the image and say like this part is more flavorful than others Yeah, what does it mean to say that it has more flavor if it can't be derived from the work and Properties which are just present, you know, that I would also Pause it that if he's gonna argue it has more flavor more style more emotion How does he not conclude that it is just better? Exactly. I mean whatever the standard is Even if it was this as standard that was only held by him. He would have to say that it is better within his own framework Yeah, this sounds like there are things you can point to that prove what he said is true No, at that point, you know There's all these steps are just not getting addressed at all the olympics where artistic excellence is judged by experts in the field Surely we would flinch at the contestant who indiscriminately threw himself across the ice and demanded that his routine be accepted as being as worthy of value As that of the most disciplined skater figure skating is a complete non sequitur No, it isn't what it's not in it. We're talking about standards and quality skating is art by the way just in case And it's objectively measurable Yeah, because of standards that were created a long time ago that we've now adhered to and become masters of And the standards are very clear much like um the things they do and the what's it called when diving like from swim pools and stuff Like I guess that brings up the interesting one in terms of you know, you would point to Sports within their framework have rules for like and conditions for winning and losing Like in chess if you get checkmate, you can't say Well, no, I mean, I disagree with the chess standards. Yeah, that's just your opinion Yeah Yeah, that's actually perfect Um, just to be real quick with the chess one if someone said like uh, they lose 10 times in a row and you go Man, you are objectively a shittier player than that player that he'd be like no, I'm not that's your opinion You have no way to say those standards are objective. It's like with the standard of chess That's not You have lost more than you have won you are worse than him. Yeah, it's all it's it's ironclad. You can't get out of it It's done So at that point if we if there are some gent if there's some agreed upon rules for figure skating Then of course you can measure it in some way that is approaching You know impartial or if you want to use the scary word My god. Yeah, like I don't I'll be honest I don't really know anything about figure skating But like I I do know that they when they hold up those numbers It's not oh, I felt like this was a nine out of ten It's no did they what moves did they do? How well did they do them and all of that is going to be falling on objective standards They can't look at a technical error and go well, I thought that was pretty amusing So you get more points like if you follow though, I like that. I like their guts. So, you know, they got gumption pretty good Yeah, it was a pretty gutsy move Get up and go I mean a lot of this just A lot of this relates to just sheer utility in order to have these competitions Generally in order to have the olympics in order to have a lot of this stuff There has to be some kind of standard that we're shooting for and it's kind of the thing with like art competitions Right where some competition or games Yeah What does it mean to say that a game is game of the year or that a film is best picture? What exactly are we appealing to because there's got to be something All different contexts and standards all with different levels of respectability and consistency as well Is there's all things to be like There are standards for what is best picture the question that I would ask is are they those bullshit and do they Do they adhere to the standards that they set out because like if If half of sorry, I think I think it was in the case of Not 12, 12 anger men 12 years a slave More than half of the academy voters didn't watch the film Yeah, yeah, they don't have to watch all the films to vote Which I don't You have one job Yeah Like if that is your standard then okay, but it's a shit standard I didn't know that that's horseshit. I would have assumed that of course you had to watch the contestants you're voting on No, no, sorry. Sorry to interrupt me That is wild to me But also it is worth note as it's been pointed out in chat People are in the academy. They have jobs. Not all of them just do the academy. Like that's the only thing that they have They're like people in the industry No, I agree still I feel like you have like an obligation to make sure that you watch every single thing You can find time Well, and you then it sort of realizes that they they don't necessarily vote on the film's quality They vote sometimes on its cultural relevance or what people say about it or society's opinion at the time Which sucks or how much money was put into um campaigning by whatever studio, which is largely why Uh, Shakespeare in love beat out saving private ryan Yeah, like I mean I I don't I don't have enough information in front of me to fully back up that statement But I mean come on Titanic is not as good as ellie confidential. Sorry I really like titanic, but you are not wrong ellie confidential is a better movie And also the hurt locker is not better than in glorious bastards And I think I think that was the same year. Oh, was that the same year as what else came out in 2000 and avatar, but I mean Nah, no, well, it was it was in the running is what i'm saying I think district nine came out that year and I think district nine is better than uh, then the oh, yeah district nine is good The thing is like this discussion about like what what did win what should win I think that is quite an interesting discussion, but imagine now that if three of us hadn't seen the film Like that's essentially how they do it And the idea that you could even like feel confident voting when you haven't seen especially when you know For best pitchers like you got to see 10 films You can see 10 films in a year In a year. Wait, what else? Yeah, no those are the main ones And funny that he even dried if we have to use examples that aren't real to prove points about real stuff Maybe we what because skating's not real I guess skating is real. Well, okay. I'm trying to give him better fit in the tout Let's let's listen to that again something's wrong here. I discipline I think it's figure skating is a complete non sequitur and funny that he even dried If we have to use examples that aren't real to prove points about real stuff What's with the dog? I am lost I think it's because he thinks that they're just holding up numbers because they He's saying no one ever fell over in figure skating and said I deserve to be respected or something So that's what's called a hypothetical. Yeah, how would you feel if you had any breakfast yesterday? Yeah, okay His whole point is that would be absurd. Why do we not have the same standard for I just can't believe we just got told something that hasn't happened shouldn't be used as evidence for why something would happen Also, like as you just said the whole fucking point is that it's absurd. That's the point. Yeah That's the point he's making Maybe we should reevaluate a little if you're wondering, uh, Robert forks act does not bring up a single actual example of modern art I don't trust you Proven to be a liar and a charlatan Unconstitutional, how do we feel about this dog being made to do this? Looks like he's having fun. He's out there on the ice. Yeah, I'm in fun. I hope he's having fun It just looks like it might be really uncomfortable Yeah, like the pads on the ice Surely they would check like if he got hurt they'd actually they wouldn't allow it if he actually got hurt I assume I would hope not. Yeah. Yeah, there were two. Yeah, he may in these days about stuff like that Which is good the poop related stuff that he made up Robert does have a solution for you though If you're really frustrated about the modern art problem His call to action paragraph at the end tells you to patronize the right kind of art galleries and by the right I agree patronize the right kind of art galleries. I was about to say doesn't everyone agree with this Uh, my internet cut out for a second. What did he say? The he said the Robert's point is you need to start supporting the correct kind of art And then I said isn't that basically what everyone thinks? Like obviously their version of what art should be supported is different for everybody Yeah, of course And I mean if you want to see more of the art that you like then you have to support it I hate to say it but when I when we're like hey guys go and watch arcane season two when it comes out But don't go watch the ray movie for star wars when it comes out What do you think that's based on it's like well The the assumption of quality based on previous works from the artists that are currently creating those things and that the The support to that work being less and or increased willing less and or increased the likelihood of future works being created Artists got to eat, you know So I don't this is what I mean like everyone does this. I don't know why you're treating this like it's a huge shock He did it right. He's saying that that impressed his painting was better Like what what is the objective of that if not to get more eyes and attention on that kind of art Hmm. Yeah, I know right By the art we patronize at museums or purchase at galleries We can make our opinions not only known but felt I'm not sure who I'm speaking to how many people are The crazy thing is that how do you disagree with anything he's saying though like everyone thinks I'll agree This is like someone saying do the right thing like everyone Yeah, this is what if anything these are mundane statements that it's difficult to disagree with because you're just like well Yeah, sure support what you think is good art. Sure Of course, I think an explanation might be that the guy that's made this video As he said at the beginning believes that Prager you guy is being dishonest and manipulative So therefore he has some kind of ulterior motive for rewarding certain types of art because all art is political with that Does that make sense? Yeah, but he he's got to show that right He keeps showing us clips where the guy is very chill Sure, I'm suggesting that maybe the video guy who made the video is working on that presumption And he's maybe assuming that his audience are on board with him from the get-go. He doesn't have to convince anyone but What the fuck is the point if you don't like just trust me bro when he's like, yeah Showed himself to be uh a little inaccurate several times already glory after all Is a business like any other what won't so won't get made wait. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Let's roll it back It tells you to patronize the right kind of art galleries and buy the right kind of artwork At the galleries by the art we patronize at museums or purchase at galleries We can make our opinions not only known but felt An art gallery after all true is a business like any other what won't so won't get made That is like not even how the world works It's it's a pressure on the world that exerts influence This is what I mean. It's so unfair. It's not like the guy said money is the only thing that determines what art will be made He he's he said support the art you like that it will be felt. That's what he said, which is true Yeah, which is true Like it's not it's not like it's gonna track Absolutely, right that somebody that there won't be people who even if they don't get paid much money We'll like stop making the art that they want to make But I mean he's not wrong Like in terms of the pressure Behind it then that's not how that works like it also is how it works a lot of the time Popularity and monetary advances for any kind of media means that more get made. Yeah, that's a thing crazy Why do you think there's four john wicks? Robert ends the video making the story A quick jab at robert rosenberg's three panel white painting Let's celebrate what we know is good and ignore what we know is not By the way, the white background you see behind me is not simply a white graphic backdrop It is a pure white painting by noted artist robert rosenberg He does really say wait, sorry. What were those edits see behind me is not simply a white graphic backdrop Yeah, no I'm sorry to a normal person that does look like a backdrop. That's just a backdrop Yeah, that's just that looks like a blank backdrop or yeah, I love I love this is no shit. What? Why would you assume anything else? It's like, yeah, what you're not familiar with this artist work is like no, I am not familiar If someone told me this this backdrop wasn't actually backdrop. It's actually a famous painting I'd be like no, we're looking at no, we need to sync up watch together We're looking at different frames right now. You're like minds blank and I'm like, yeah Yeah, you're like no, no, no, no like it's actually blank and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you're like What's happening are the lines part of the painting? No, it's Okay, so it's literally just three blank. They're not blank. That's the big twist you'll find out in a sec Yeah, oh painting by noted artist robert rosenberg. Yeah, it's not blank. It's white paint. This seriously is how the video ends Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It kind of illustrates the whole point he's making doesn't it We've gotten to the point where a blank canvas is being appreciated as much as some of the most incredible paintings of all time That's a very intuitive thing for a person to be like what the hell happened In fact, I'm gonna go out and say that fucking sucks. Well This is the complication I think that it's worthy to discuss because it makes a lot of sense that people would find it intuitively retarded Why try and go high and mighty and pretend just to be like you don't understand the value of a blank canvas It's like of course. I don't a blank canvas is synonymous with the scratch of art the beginning of it Not like the end concept of what could be one day art Not it currently is the art and why pretend to be so fucking above it when this is a very normal perspective Yeah, if you don't think it's normal you just got to get more you got to go outside Reality Yeah, maybe yeah, maybe go to less galleries and start talking to more human beings. I don't know man All these galleries of robots and aliens. He's like these guys get me This is art He doesn't really say anything about it other than he obviously wouldn't feel he needs to it's blank Yes, the point is being made by him pointing it out. It's white. Yeah. No. No, I see it Robert This isn't a blank canvas as many conservatives will leave you to believe right good fucking god conservatives Left wingers are allowed to say it's blank too It's worse than that if you're a left winger that you have this magical ability to know that it isn't blank Or if you're left-wing and you say that's black you automatically lose all of your political positions. They turn right way Oh, dude, your left wing, you know that this canvas is uh, well because it's very white insist upon itself I mean it absolutely insists upon itself. I mean If we were if we were all the same school we would took here and like the the teacher presents this as everyone I would just be laughing. I feel like this is funny. Like what's the meme though? It'd be like no, it's not No, stop This is to me less artistic than if Someone took the fire extinguisher from the earlier example framed it and put it on the wall This is worse than the boulder Oh, yeah, the boulders way better than this. Yeah. Yeah. This is definitely this isn't even close to boulder tier You've this is this is like bananas here Let him explain to you remember the beginning of the video the conservatives have to baby you into understanding why to appreciate art You have to follow their measurements of their standards Maybe us into why yeah, he's about to tell us why we have to appreciate this Painted perfectly white three of them. Yeah, perfectly white Particularly that you can't see the perfect white. First of all, you can't see the brushstrokes, but like Depending on how it's photographed. It would also benefit the painting in terms of the lack of seeing the brushstrokes as well What if they're spray painted? It's like there are a lot of different shades of white. What is perfect white? First of all I'm not sure. I'd have to find out who's and also like you can't even measure the brushstrokes Like that's how most That's that's most things that are painted are not going to show the brushstrokes Um, these rollers are spray paint or some sort of a mechanical application or Part of the problem is like I I haven't seen it in person, but I wonder if like if I got real real real It being it's really if perfect white relates to a particular shade that wouldn't make it better or worse than any other shade, right? Yeah, why yeah, it's just awesome that it's a perfect white compared to like red Is is he appealing to the fact because like I don't I mean I do like what I'm a painting because I'm But um, yeah, I don't really know a huge amount about like painting in this Style and I as far as I'm aware white is a pretty hard color to work with So is this guy appealing to the fact that maybe this hadn't been done before that's all I can think maybe Okay, like it's more impressive than if it was green is Inherently because white is a harder color to paint with it's also more impressive than nothing Um, sure, but it looks like nothing. Yes Yeah, that's because you're a plebian fool. Yeah Oh What kind of makes me think about um, that's because you're a conservative I'm sorry if there was a stack of a thousand a four pieces of paper and someone's like I did all that by hand. It's like, okay Yeah, I mean that would have taken a while. Yeah, these pieces of paper were black and then I painted them white But why but why? Which on its own is impressive there are multiple versions of the rosenberg white paintings But the three panel one is definitely my favorite Why why why first off? We don't have a favorite you're lying, but let's go I don't think you're lying. I'm just so curious. Why what possible reason you're my favorite It's okay. Let's say it's so cringy All right Really big too much bigger than what robert suggests in his video. I feel like any artist who's ever been Go back and we go back 15 seconds Actually a canvas painted perfectly white three of them painted so meticulously that you can't even see the brush strokes Which on its own is impressive. There are multiple versions of the rosenberg white paintings But the three panel one is definitely my favorite and they're all really big too much bigger than robert suggests in his video Wow, so he suggested they were It's just his favorite, but like why like seriously, why would you prefer any of these over the other? We wouldn't want to baby you into thinking about it just as whatever his perspective is, right? I'll be considered you gotta Like when you're like isn't part of being a youtuber Like the joy of that is that I have the ability and the influence in the audience to share my perspective And people just don't do that. They're like, yeah, that's what's my favorite and they stop there This is my favorite. It's like what they're like all the same panel one more than any other one Why why like why I like the four square ones because of the angles That creates a little bit of a star in the middle. There you go. I did it. That's more than what he just I won but It it reminds me when he was praising the one What was it birth birth of venus was it was the one? Yeah, another big big one. Yeah, so he when he didn't really explain why he liked the other one He said it had buzzword and buzzword, but it's almost like it's the start of a thought but he's not actually Exploring it. Well, so I'm starting to get an impression. He's a little bit of a phony. He's like Yeah, I like this and then you're like why it's like I have no clue Why is most important odd? I was told to yeah, like like he he says like it's a right wing sort of think like Machine that you just have to go this direction But one could easily argue that he's on the opposite end Which is that you have to find all of this shit meaningful And just like that blade runner example, he could be like I love the white canvases. Why they're beautiful. Why? they're so I just I think the All the style of course and the emotion of it and it's like what emotion? Well, obviously when you consider how it was Made you get a really big sense of like how How much would have gone into it, you know And the funny thing is like I feel like I could make up a bullshit answer for it. I could say it's easy It's fascinating to think about, you know, all of the effort all of the toil that I put into making this perfect You know perfect white You can't tell the strokes all of this effort and it just manifests in nothing Everybody looks at it and they think it's a blank canvas as though I haven't been here I think that speaks to the toil of existence, you know that we can put as much of an impact on the world as we You know, we'll try our best to leave our mark on the world leave our paint strokes our brush strokes on the world Oh, yeah, that's true. You know, at the end of the day from the outside Exactly, it's nothing. It's nothing no impression. No impacts. It's just avoided We are nothing in this eternal You know the sea of stars and this cosmos. There you go. There's a Yeah, I don't even I don't like painting by the way. I I think this is lame That's a way to put it. Yeah I just like the idea of the artist is here right now. You go. I think he's coming out as a conservative Wow It's like it is odd. He paint like it is but yeah, I don't like it What I find quite interesting about this is that Fringy, you could have said everything you just said about a truly blank canvas or like a sheet of paper Yeah, yeah, which um Kind of feeds back into what I think we were talking about earlier in that to some degree The art is in the eye of the beholder um the value that people extract from it is absolutely Like I like if somebody if somebody actually, you know, if someone said that to me and then the wizard said Yeah, he's telling the truth. It'd be like, okay. That's that's really cool Then that you were able to pull something out of it. Yeah, that's that's great. That's cool That's swell and I mean I would say that this is art like of course. I would in this case Like the fact the fact that it's even been painted Uh would have to give it that but like as for me. I just I don't like I don't know man I don't want to pretend like I could look at this and value this as much as like some incredibly elaborate and detailed Um painting that you know, like this incredible photorealistic like landscape, right? Like the I'd look at You know the Arcadia the what's what's that one called? Uh That thomas I think it's yeah. Yeah the the Arcadian or pastoral state you guys know that painting It's good. There's no Fringy Lisa. Uh, can you show me a picture? I might know of it, but It's uh, it's it's it's it's really Like I'm I'm always going to have more respect for something like this. Like I'm sorry. Oh 100 fucking percent. Look at that Yeah, I like I really love it and I'm always gonna like I'm always yeah, I'm not I'm not going to pretend that I don't Although I I think over there on the on the right hand side by the tree. I think I see a brush stroke. So I I was gonna say like I appreciate it, but it does lack flavor. Um does flex style It's too crowded. It's just too crowded. So many people here. Couldn't you just let nature be nature? Greens a bit dull. I guess yeah, there's too many greens. It does dullify it. Yeah That's not what waves look like I don't know. I think I go really like when he was saying, oh, yeah, just mountains and stuff like I'm sorry, man I really like these landscapes. Like I really like this painting Um, I'm not I didn't fall for like conservative propaganda because I like them my dude All that you didn't like the white paintings that makes you conservative. It's like it's retarded What I what I feel like this video meant to be was about a minute long and he says There's more to a painting than simply looking at it and being done with it Like there can be more in terms of how it was made or why it was made and that can really change your mind on the Piece of artwork if you put it all that way, that's fine. It's totally fine. Yeah, he did that Yeah, if he was like technical impressiveness is not the be all end all of what makes you know art good or bad or whatever So I just mentioned he hasn't even gotten to charlie. Yeah, that's true I don't understand the political spin that he's put on the video because it seems that's what that's left that That's what people on both sides do lefties do it all the time Everything is a conservative this or a fascist that Well, the only thing that seems to be conservative about this video is the fact that it was uploaded to the preguiou youtube channel Basically, but that's enough If I were to figure out what I think the argument would be my my guess would be that these sort of standards are rigid and conservative by their very nature because they limit the Like the breadth of artistic expression that people can feel comfortable with that would be my guess That's probably his position, but I don't like it like the we sequester Like older and more formatted standards to conservatives. It's like I mean there's plenty of lefties that likely standard. So Well, the the idea that you can't take like a more. Yeah idea But my guess is that that's what he's saying is that like these standards are inherently conservative, which like is weird But yo, I feel like any artist who has ever painted before should be impressed by these if you've ever seen Uh, I mean Once you know the Can he at least concede seeing these without context is like it almost evokes embarrassment Yeah, if it being really difficult to do but not looking like it was really difficult to do You you're not gonna know how hard it was when you when you look at it, right? Like I said, the most striking thing about this one is the image that's created with the four of them Being put together the way they are. You know what I mean? I'm like, yeah I'm like, why are they why are they off like center, you know, why are they downed a little bit? That's clearly intentional. Why what is that supposed to mean and then already already we've gone further If I stopped there, it would be more interesting It blows open the whole concept of like you can't experience a piece of art correctly unless you know about how it was created Is like I don't know that that's true I don't think we can do that standard because then it means, you know somebody's like I made this painting heart attack and then they die And they never wrote down what they meant and they never told anybody what they intended that like that They never told anybody what they went through to make it. Yeah, it's not ever Even though it is complete. It is a complete work. You know, the wizard even says Yeah, he said it was complete and then he died right there The idea that that artwork would be in Ogg's wonderful painting on the wall. We don't know what he did to make it Yeah, exactly Isn't a lot of what's meaningful that you can kind of like infer and read into and think about what they may have Intended even if you don't necessarily know And like I said, it goes both ways. What if you see something like this? Foreset and then you go, oh, what was the context? You know, there isn't any these haven't been paid yet. Yeah Like someone put them on the wall because it was a mistake They put up ones that haven't been done yet and he's like, oh But I drew a bunch of meaning out of it. It's like you can keep that beating. It's all yours It's okay. You can draw meaning out of things that are random or like don't really have like some elaborate or fascinating compelling like sort of explanation for being the way that they are So what if the guy who painted these Only had like Only had one arm didn't have any arms and he painted them with his toes Like he held the brush with his toes that would make it harder to do and therefore more impressive But again, you're not going to know that unless you have been told that right? Yeah, yeah, which by the way, I don't want to consider that irrelevant or anything I just I just don't think it should be considered exclusively relevant Like it has to be a part of the artwork's consumption Yeah, it definitely makes it more impressive But how impressive it is. I think it's a separate question There's a there's a lot of factors that come into the appreciation of an artwork It can be the amount of time it took to make it even on an incredibly low skill Like I said about stacking the a4 pieces of paper anyone could do that But if you did it for like a million pieces Like holy shit that is kind of impressive Then there's like the talent aspect someone is just incredibly fucking good at the thing You don't even they're not even 100% sure how they they were always good They always remember being good And then there's effort Like as a Variable that could apply like a lot at a small amount of time or a huge amount overall large amount of time And you create something incredible as a result like these all these factors um someone lacking particular limbs Or um senses. Yeah, those two and all that stuff, but then you know at some point We're gonna have to talk about what the thing is Like an example that I would give I don't really listen to them But deaf leopard their drummer only has one arm which makes playing conventional drum patterns pretty difficult for him You don't I mean again, I don't listen to them But I would assume that a deaf leopard fan doesn't listen to them and just kind of give a proverbial pat on the head and go Oh, it's good that he's trying like he's it's really hard for him to do this It's like no you listen to the drumming does the drumming sound good You don't add the caveat that oh, okay. It was done with a Guy who only had one arm in order to get past the fact that it doesn't sound very good The reason why it's so impressive though partly is because he only has one arm and he's still able to sound like a drummer That's the thing it applies to all of those you could spend a million years on something It could be crap you could have the best talent in the world and still make something crap You can give a shit and you can put in the most effort ever and it can still be crap Oh, yeah, and then conversely you can see like Da Vinci's just you know His little illustrations at his notebook that are like incredible when they were never meant to be complete works They were just ideas, you know experiments say yeah go to taking him no time no effort no talent necessarily and it could still be considered Some of the greatest artwork of all time. That's just how it wasn't that the uh I remember I know it's not quite the same What's another meme with like Picasso that he like drew something on a napkin and then said that would be like $10,000 or something when like some woman asked him to draw something Also, I don't remember. I'm sure that's happened many times to be honest with you. Yeah, maybe he seems cheeky It's a funny meme just about like that. It's like, oh that took you like a minute And he says, you know, no that took me like 30 years Like 30 years through the culmination of uh, you know boyhood memes it took 12 years Seeing them in person they're pristine and that's not even talking about like any like meaning or symbolism That's just technically impressive not liking art like this is a choice and it's no No What you like and what you don't like Sorry, they're not choices. You don't get to determine the things you like and don't like it's like dexastic and volunteerism You can make claims publicly, but they're probably gonna be lying if you know, it's uh, I hate that so much And you don't only be lying to yourself, you know, I just like it Just just do it. Just choose to like it. Just choose to enjoy watching this. Why don't you just like it? Well, shit, then I would just like everything It's it's the same. It's like saying you choose what you believe. Oh god, that one's even Yeah, I think it's the same thing you don't like a volunteerism. You're you're either convinced or you're not like that's It's surely that simple And there are times in life where someone will give you every reason to feel a particular way and you just go I just don't Sorry and vice versa be like, why would you feel that way when all of these things and you're like sorry, I just do And then and then this sort of brings out this discussion What exactly is the point of the craft of creativity? If not for that craft to influence whether you like it or not The like if you can just like anything why why why would you go about like the the methods that you use to create something? If if you can just arbitrarily choose to like anything or dislike anything Yeah, just make shit like what is the effect of the craft? What is the effect? What does it create? What does it realize in the world like for people if they can just make a conscious choice just like that about liking and disliking it, you know I think this kind of the fact that he's now said that he thinks that you can choose what you do and don't like That maybe contextualizes why he's been very harsh to the Prager you guy because he he thinks that you can choose what you do and don't like He thinks that all art is political and he thinks that the guy is pushing some kind of political agenda Like all of that together makes his video seem he's in quite a bubble. You might say a political bias clouded bubble Yeah, it could be that he's approached this with a certain uh predetermined outcome Oh your symbolism. That's just technically impressive not liking art like this is a choice And it's a choice that people should be able to make with all of the context available. Robert is It's what's not a choice. He can make It's a choice they should be able to make with all the context available. Okay. Now I'm just lost Is he saying like we should be able to decide whether we like something We decide whether or not we like something but this guy's saying you have to like things You know, you have to adhere to my standards. Is that what he's ramping up to? But they're both doing they should or else I'd get if we'll know I think the old guy saying you should like these things because look at this shit here You don't want more of this shit. You can broaden them both out hardcore Pray to you man is like You should like these things because they adhere to greater standards of masterworks This guy's saying you should like these things because they mean more We're saying you should choose to like them because they mean more right that doesn't you can't choose to like something I know I know but that's why I'm cutting out the middle man is like he's saying no You probably should like this more it's it's more style more spice more flavor Yeah, the rock you can walk under it. You can't walk under michael angeles david Fucking useless statue. Yeah, it's on the floor. I love how that's a criteria whether or not you could walk under the art You can walk under it Yeah, it's presenting these pieces and rubbing the context from you while either Come on. I I haven't even seen the full video and I get the point. He's making straight away I think the decline of art and then he presents to you at the end. What seems to be a blank canvas synonymous with the concept of the lack of art That's at the end of the video. What point do you think he's making? He's not I don't believe for a second that What the prairie man wants to convince people who are watching that is that there's no artist to credit and there's no intention behind the paintings at all it's just A blank canvas or someone popped on the wall randomly. I don't think he's trying to say that he's trying The point is only meaningful if there was someone who created it and people who value it. That's what his whole problem is He sees it as the degradation of art Which you know, you can have that argument if you want. I am happy to live in a world where people are able to create artworks Quote-unquote like that I just don't think they're very good I don't think they're good either and if people want to pay a bunch of money for it and go to the You know make special trips to the gallery to take a look at it then man more power to you sometimes I envy you but not me. I just can't I don't know. I just doesn't work for me. It doesn't doesn't do it for me I'll pretending to inform six months ago. Prager. You posted another certified for exact classic Why is classical art so good in it? He claims that art history has been modeled by the humanities and social sciences and the uh social significance and political messaging you just play his clips Yeah, I'm curious I'm curious about that video. Why is classical art so good? Like that would be I want to hear what why does he think because remember he talked about why these things are good Or he said that they were very good Right and getting into the why they are good is a very important part of the discussion So I'd be curious what he said regarding that Being an art was only ever added by academics not artists Art is a matter of personal taste. There's no such thing as great art or bad art Where do these assumptions come from? For the most part they are the result of art histories written and taught over the last century Not by artists, but by those in the humanities and social sciences Not having an artist's point of view or experience let alone artistic talent These authors and teachers have therefore framed art in the only there are plenty of artists that would have these perspectives I don't buy the there are exclusively like a social scientist perspective No, why it was just academics only language they understand Meaning and social significance artists don't which are important as well To artwork a lot of some of the reason like while praise and artwork will be its social significance slash meaning so Yeah, we want to throw don't throw the baby out with the bath water as they say Think like that at all. They only care about making it look real When a visual wait hang on. I think he's doing a parody. I can't quite catch that Which they understand like a balloon meaning and social significance artists don't think like that at all They only care about making it look real Oh, no, I think that was from the the the video was that uh, the modern art was the balloon animal What's his point? I'm not sure what his point is honestly. I was more distracted by the balloon animal We just carry on because I'm not I listened to that twice and I was I didn't quite catch so when a visual medium becomes more about what it means And less about its pure visual experience It might succeed as a journalism or social commentary But it has failed as art That's an opinion and a standard, but I don't agree with it Yeah, I don't agree with it But that's something that we could definitely talk about because I think that deep down Inside of that idea there is something worth discussing um When he says failed as I don't know if he means it's shitty and good art versus it's his art and isn't art Failed as art, you know the fact that he says it has failed Me would suggest to me that it has it has failed as being a piece of art. Therefore. It is not Yeah, especially when he says it would be like journalism, you know instead Yeah, I don't categorize as something different which again That's real awkward because like journalism when you write it down or present it on television, you know It's like that's odd Yeah, Hemingway was the journalist, you know like a lot of writers were journalists Edgar Allen part right uh journalism, I believe I had to see that Robert Is still just as dumb eight years later in a great oil painting by the 17th century dutch master vermere The quality is there in the controlled balance of its composition the harmony of its color The masterful hand-eye coordination of its brushwork So many masterpieces were only ever made because they were commissioned Like that's why does this guy has nothing to do with what he said What was commission like what Justine chapel was commission dude when he was playing this clip. I legit was like, okay He stopped it. What could he possibly say and then he said that Because This is all very straightforward like this is you can agree with this it won't hurt you to agree with this And my coordination of its brushwork. It's it's lovely. You could have just agreed not on my wall Could have just said yeah, that's true. And then what does he say many masterpieces were only ever made because they were commissioned Like that's how what does that have to do with anything survived? That's how great artists survived Okay, uh, okay, I see I mean, yeah, great sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Does that have to do with the lady? Uh, I think I think he's leading towards the broader political context. I imagine that was their thing It's not like the 16 chapel happened because michael angelo was there you go rag see He did he got you don't give a fuck. That doesn't change anything No, that's what I said. I said he was commissioned. Yeah What does this have to do with anything? Ding michael angelo but regardless the constant masterpiece comparisons never stop with fake art critiques like this Right, so what's the point of that? Why did you bring it up legit like structure of making video you present clip clip says this piece of art from an older time Better for these reasons and your responses. Yeah But it was likely made or at least a lot of artworks were made for money. Anyway moving on it's like what? Why why even bring that up? Why bring up that a lot of art was commissioned? What does that have to do with whether it's well composed or it's got good lighting and color balance We actually get into the the concept of you can be an artist and also create art for money We do we need to introduce this? This is a possibility. Yes. You can express yourself and do it for money Well, also, why do you guys said? Prager you guys said more about that whatever that painting was then this guy said about the three white squares with a big rock Or the other one that that's vivid and you know, wait, he didn't I don't why keep saying vivid It was emotional and flavorful. Yeah, that's right Teen chapel happened because michael angelo was bored after all the pizza. He was eating michael angelo Yeah Yes Did you know that the teenage mutant ninja turtle was named after artist? Did you know? Wow? Oh my goodness. That's incredible Leonardo Raphael Donatello Michelangelo. Oh my goodness Survived that was their thing. It's not like the 16 chapel happened because michael angelo was bored after all the Pizza he was eating michael angelo, but regardless the constant masterpiece comparisons never stop with fake art critiques Yeah, what does fake art critiques mean? I'm kind of waiting to get to the end of the sentence. What because he has a fake art critiques mean Robert claims that art is a visual medium and how it looks matters more than anything else The great artists of the past didn't care one wit about reflecting their times. They cared primarily about creating That's not true. Yeah, don't buy that. That's not true. Do not buy that looked good There are plenty of people who may have been solely Motivated by making things that looked like real life But the idea of the artist back then when interested in reflecting their times As a rule This video is more cringe than the other one This one is worse than the other one based on what little snippets we've seen Art by definition is a visual medium. Nope um No, but by depth. Oh, so blind people just cannot exclude what on music It well, hold on. I know. Yeah, or is he just talking about painting? Yeah. Well, then why do you say art? I don't know why he said art. I'm sorry I'm I think that's what he's talking about I'm going to assume he misspoke or chose words poorly because I'm going to assume that he would not exclude music as art I imagine that he is saying that's what I'm thinking work in a museum and not in a museum in a gallery paintings Hold on What was the name of the video that this guy's playing because if it specifies in that that he's talking about a particular type of art Then that would explain why he doesn't Still think it'll be worthwhile in this moment in the video to say that not just art Art by definition is a visual medium. Very strange thing to say in terms of preventing misunderstandings Therefore, it's meaning an ability to make you think Are secondary to how it looks Well, wait, hold on. So I guess it is he saying like as a logistic process you must Look at it and then process it part of So the thing is is that it seems like he's working towards the idea that beauty is like paramount but already I mean, what about an image that's meant to scare the shit out of you? Like a painting that's haunting or terrifying or disturbing Like it's not necessarily, you know what I mean like if we were to appeal to like beauty like I don't know if we'd say like Do you know what I mean like that? I mean, I'm trying to be nice. I think I think he's saying that you can't draw anything from it until you've got it And to get it is to look at it. So you've looked at it. Sure. I mean, is he talking looking at it? Yeah Is he saying beauty or is he saying fidelity? I I don't know. It seemed like he was saying beauty could be as fundamental as You cannot gain meaning from it until you've experienced it and in this case This is a visual medium of a painting or whatever. So you must see it I mean, yes, that's I would look at it And I think this is supposed to be supporting the idea that that's the focus of the art as in like they They have that supports the idea that they they focus on the way it looks Rather than what it means, which is not true But yeah, but the the thing is again when we say focus on what it what it looks like Not true necessarily I mean, there are plenty of artists that will maybe focus on how it looks as opposed to what it means But there are plenty of artists that do the other so I guess what I mean to say is that when we try and make a standard Based on how it looks. It's like well, that's not like Based Yeah, how do I mean, maybe we'll get more context in there and how it looks That's really stupid because art is a visual medium It can convey things that are indirect through a visual format, right? Is that I feel like that makes more sense than whatever the fuck he just said I don't think that necessarily contradicts what he said though. I was about to say I don't think so Like a visual made it how it looks is first and then like what do you pull from it? It derived from the way it looks. It's not a surprise. He's like Has barely ever responded to him accurately. It's insane Before almost, you know, it's like saying words can't mean other things other than just what the word says What? When did he ever say that? What I mean making the shit up meaning also words have meaning Also to make a broader point art isn't a medium painting is drawing is charcoal is those are visual media But art is not a medium art is much more broad than that, but this guy doesn't really care about this It is I think it's I think it's when he said like art is a visual medium, right? And he's saying what I mean I'm surprised he wouldn't have focused harder on that because it's such a on its own statement being insane Yeah, I I still feel like I need to push back on it It's difficult to do that because of the way that this guy's presenting the plague of you guy But every example he's given has been that of a painting So I feel like given the context when he's like sure he's maybe phrasing it In a suboptimal way, but given the context I go Um, yeah, if if pray you go here right now and we said, you know music is art, right? He'd be like I'm talking about paintings Yeah And then you like I don't even think you'd see the problem We'd be like, okay, uh, obviously my recommendation is don't say art is a visual medium in your video Maybe it makes more sense when you watch the video as in like what that what preceded that sentence Maybe who knows possibly. Yeah, because he's stupid. That's the summary of this video. Yeah, that's the conclusion. He's stupid No benefit of the doubt. It's fine I mean, that's the synopsis of the video Robert doesn't know the difference between painting and art So he keeps saying art when he means paint and he's still wrong Robert does clarify. He's not talking about Whatever, I think he just made a mistake there in his terminology. I think you're actually stupid though. That's the difference Realism he's just saying it has to look good. Great art need not even look realistic to be great It's no wonder that many people believe the myth is that oh, wait, I'm sorry. What I said earlier He literally just said the opposite this guy's been arguing throughout this whole video that the main standard has been how close to real life it looks Look from conservative slash Robert. So he's correlated the two like at least twice possibly three times But now we've just found out Robert doesn't think that at all And he's still wrong Robert does clarify. He's not talking about realism. He's just saying it has to look good Great art need not even look realistic to be great It's no wonder that many people believe the myth that photography put an end to classical art Given that they assumed that looking photographic was the purpose of a painting But that was never the goal of the classical artist Quality of execution was whatever that means Robbie What you don't you can't you can't rub two brain cells together to come up with what you think he means by that When you create a photorealistic image with a camera Very different than a paintbrush, which is very different than a pencil Which is very different than sculpting which is very and all of these things have different crafts and skill levels and Requirements and things to master obviously what he's referring to He has to likey it's not about being photorealistic It's about how you manage to achieve photorealism through the medium at least I assume is what he's saying And earlier in this video when he talked about how that's what he's been saying this whole time Well, you can't because that's not what he's saying You might be thoroughly impressed with the work of a cutting-edge artist. I remember being shown this I think it was how do you feel about it? Uh My dad's signature is like a sideways tornado. I love it Yeah, um, because that's I remember when I was super young and I first saw him do it I was just like you're trolling. That's so great Like the you can just make up your signature to the point where it's just I'm not exaggerating You just did loads of circles and they got smaller and smaller as you further along you went sideways tornado and uh Yes, because it matches enough for the letters in his name. And so it was just like whatever. Um, when I saw this I remember thinking about that. I was like Yeah, I guess my dad's signature is art too Like it's yep, you know With its impressive theory But you have no way of knowing if you're being taken for a sucker You have no way of knowing you're being taken for us. Okay, so yeah, I could probably I probably push back on that If you drew meaning out of the squiggles. It's yours. I said it earlier. That's totally fine I don't and and if someone said like ha ha you fool. This wasn't even an artist that made this It was a bunch of random bullshit. Uh, I I would implore people to not let that take the meaning away Yeah, she's feeling all right. Yeah. All right. In the same vein If you interpret a particular message within a story that very much is supported by the story And then the author tells you that you made that up. They didn't put that in they shut up. You can ignore them You don't have to believe that's what they said just because they made it. It's uh, it's it sounds unintuitive, but there's a lot of um A lot of importance there depending on what you drew out of what stories slash pieces of artwork. So yeah, uh Uh, maybe maybe I'd need more on what he means by sucker Sucker. I usually don't go to museums trying to figure out if I'm about to be tricked or not But maybe that's more of Robert's personal insecurity. Unlike the I assume Robert's saying that like Uh, so mark can be so bad. You don't know like if I actually shit You don't know like on a piece of paper and then put it in the not thing and then do what Fring did earlier And just make up a story. I literally make it up. It has nothing to do with the actual thing I just had to shit something out real quickly to make some money that day I guess Robert would be saying like so you tricked me. You wanted me to think there was meaning behind this But there isn't actually Which is an interesting perspective on art, right? The there's only meaning truly there if the artist intended for it to be there I don't I don't agree with that, but that seems to be Rob's perspective. Maybe Yeah, that's a standard. So as long as he's consistent with it, which it seems like he is inspirational work of the past Much of today's art exposes how course and I disagree on that one more I do not think you can for example draw gender politics out of jr. Tolkien when he didn't put any of it in there if I drew out of lord of the rings that it's more important for us to work together to overcome the biggest threats to The world that it is to stay apart and try and like win on separate fronts And Tolkien told me that wasn't the case. I would disagree with him Uh, if I said there were gender politics, I don't even know what my references would be Like I you know, obviously for the one of binding together and fighting a greater threat. I have shit tons of references Um, and that's the important part as far as I'm concerned using the actual art to prove your point instead of just saying I don't I don't believe in the whole like I just decided that this thing is about this thing now Like it, you know, that's just like arbitrary and nothing. There's no meaning. It's Pointing to references as as far as I'm concerned super important. Um And if the author disagrees with your references and as far as it goes, it's just no I'd be like, um, okay I don't want to do that at that point In the same vein if the artist told me like if tolkin told me it was about gender politics I'd be very confused that I'd be like told you might you might explain it to me He might do like a little just point to the things because I I didn't quite grasp that Vulgar a society we've become much unlike 1400s Europe a very clean and civilized time Robert floor time. I'm a sposh painting my dude. Um, it's supposed to be about it I don't that one is Probably about either hell or purgatory. So it's not even supposed to yeah Hang on. I just want to see what he said. Oh insecurity unlike the inspirational work of the past Much of today's art exposes how coarse and vulgar a society we've become much unlike 1400s Europe a very clean and civilized time I don't think he that's he's not this isn't the same thing. He's talking about like Uh, uh Well a tacky representation of artistic meaning versus This a painting that's Also, didn't Prager you guys say that uh artists of the time don't try to reflect the time They just try to create something that looks nice Which means that the time being horrible would be irrelevant to the art being made within it Well things I didn't agree with that at all from Oh, yeah, I I just I disagree as well But I don't know why this guy has then cut in saying well Well, the 1400s was so nasty If the other guy doesn't factor that into his Because surely surely an artistic depiction of like hell or something along those lines like a biblical or mythological scene Surely that's not on the same level of someone having a dead horse on the ground with inri on it. Exactly I think the way he's looking for is tacky and lame as fuck. Yeah, that one's tacky as fuck But the other one's like a work of art in the painting Robert Florxack is an interesting case. His ignorant takes on art are almost palpable in his own work Well, technically impressive most of the time some of them are. Oh, is that him? This is robits wick. Look at it go. Oh, wow. Wow. Look at that Oh, that's nice. I like that with the big moon and look at the the snow leopard there And this is this gives me maxfield parish vibes Well, let's hear the criticisms just fucking insane robert. What's going on? Yo, that's insanely good Look at those mountains And the water that is what water looks like that looks really fucking good, my dude you attacking his art You are he's got to rags. He's got to you are so fucking What is the broader point that he's trying to make? Yeah, let's let's hear what he says about it Interesting case his ignorant takes on art are almost palpable in his own work Well, technically impressive most of the time some of them are just fucking insane robert What's going on here? But his work is clearly restricted. Wait Oh, it's the same snow leopard. See he's there again. What's this guy? Who is it? Are these from like a book? Maybe he's commissioned to do like book art or something I want to know what he's going to say about the artwork. Damn it Some of them are just fucking insane robert. What's going on here? But his work is clearly restricted uninspired. It's the same subjects over and over again White people hanging out outside White people hanging out outside Imagine imagine you said that about any other race. Holy shit Holy fuck. Look at the just the shadows on the tree Well, no, but you see he already is like, yeah, it's technically impressive, but he thinks it's shit Yeah, because it's really basic repetitive lame Yeah, I guess it's just white people really all this time learning how to like make art instead of taping berries to a wall I just Can't fucking believe it's like clockwork, but actually white people specifically Yeah, thanks, bro. White people you're white and you're not a great representative of our people But like man, you do you whatever this is this is really good. This art is really good Um, you should know it's just technically good, but it's not good. Yeah, there's no meaning behind it There's no meaning. There's no there was no plaque. There was no law. There was no law. No law. There's no law. Yeah If he had said this represents the love I have for my wife I put it into my characters and that this tree was a tree that we planted when we met and blah blah blah He'd be like, oh now it's good good up. There you go. He did it He's got to have some kind of inspiration. He would have why why is he drawing like horses in these landscapes and stuff If there wasn't like some inspiration white His inspiration is lame It's it's boring. It's conventional. Which like I mean if he told us he figured it out I thought I found it really weird that he can flash these up these things that would have taken Like an insane amount of time to make and then just like dismiss them so flip it And by the way, he's doing the thing that he said Stupid republican conservative evil people do at the beginning. He's like, oh, they just take the art and tell you how to feel about it Yeah, like Yeah, I want to highlight that he's shown us multiple examples of prega you guys art and we're all like, holy shit This is fantastic and the example of his art was the song that he played Yeah, I mean it is awkward. These are good paintings like You would have I mean, of course as he had to concede technically. Yes, you have to concede which by the way is the best kind of correct Yes, and how can you what do you mean technically good? So there's technically bad I think I think he's conceding the Robert like Robert is a man of his word in the like Robert said the most important thing is Achieving in the craft and he's conceding yet. Yeah did that I guess It is really awkward, right because that guy is living his values ultimately as a as an artist He believes that this is the most valuable and he's doing it like this Surely that's it. Surely that's a like a good thing, right? That you can see that he's at least consistent in terms of his art philosophy Who can compare the two? Compare the two people Robert talking about art and the art he produces now compare this Guy and what he says about art and the art he produced and you're like, man I don't know if I was gonna pick which one I'd probably want society to lean towards It's probably the evil conservative Robert man. I don't know. You're not making a You hit it here for us folks rags wants to see more white people hanging around outside. That's what this this is I do. I want more snow leopards and big moons and bridges. Yeah, that's no leopard one with the big moon was cool I like I like the landscapes. I like it all and uh, yeah, I don't need to be told about its fucking law in order to like it If anything, I I'm curious if these two are the same people and it's like part of a journey or a book series because The snow leopard being prominently beside them can't be like an accent. Someone said they could easily be book lovers Oh Just imagine a big gloid Alexander over the top or something like that Yeah All right, man. Even made the Egyptians white. Oh, that's interesting. What is your fucking focus? Okay, calm down Maybe he likes about the other Egyptians. I need to draw a comparison here. So I don't have you guys seen the film moonlight No, but I need to I think I have yeah Okay, so I haven't but one of the things that I know about it is that the director I saw an interview with I think the director of the cinematographer Where he was basically discussing why he likes filming black skin as in black people Because it has a particular look on film If you light it in a certain way and all the rest of it So it could it could well be that prega you guy when he's painted the Egyptians as white You know, he could just like that color like what what is that a problem? I mean if that with the sun being there and it being very bright, maybe they just look lighter I don't know. Yeah, Egyptians were a brown skinned people. They weren't black. So I mean if his if his goal there is for that to look like Egyptians give a shit Yeah, yeah But like all the stuff we've said about all this artwork. What is he saying grand total technically good, but the race The race Oh, wait, I thought portraying things realistically was bad I thought that was There was one before he said technically good But like what's going on here with this pain it like he didn't even elaborate or expand on what he meant by what's going on I thought he said that could go both ways Is implying that it's busy Maybe that would be He said it's fucking insane. I believe was the words he used Oh, yeah, sorry, but with no elaboration at all. That's the thing that it could be that he's saying like what insane detail Good job or what insane clusterfuck this is I think he's implying it's not very good Well, yeah, I mean to be fair the thing you have to remember is he can't compliment Robert The best he can do is technically it is acceptable This is the end result of what like tribalism does to someone Everything that this one person from the southern tribe has to be bad. Even his art is shit But when I look at this I'm like dude, that's super awesome And it's cool like just the just look at the look look at all the characters, right? And now how they have that the light glow You know on the back from the sun and everything and just the minimalism of the background But it's egyptian and just the color of it It looks really good my dude like come on Like you shouldn't have to bring this up. I prefer it to the blank canvas What? Wow, it's just it's just because the egyptians are white, isn't it? Well to be fair I haven't explored the law of either necessarily so I could change my mind still is pending May the egyptians I could probably change your mind the blank canvas is even whiter Yeah, he didn't talk about the race of that image gosh White well, what I'm curious about is how can you bitch about the egyptians looking too white here? When you castigated him for this opinion of his that he supposedly had that it should be representative of reality But the egyptians weren't actually white so surely there's no problem with painting them as white people If art isn't about accurately. Oh, yeah, okay, so he's assuming it's not a yeah, because uh, he should be able to paint them Fucking green if he wants to right 100% yeah, they could all look like the monofringy and that'll be fine Yeah, and in fact, I have a feeling that the shittier and weirder they look the more he'll like him Yeah, it just like disintegrates into squiggly lies. He's like I actually quite like this Yeah, I figure interesting Robert has clearly focused all of his artistic energy into making as realistic of renderings It's possible, which I obviously not I don't believe that's what we would call those no We must have been looking at different things What remember he's the one that's hyper media literate while robert is the embarrassing ignorant fool Can be You don't need to be painting photo realism to be an artist. You already put you played the clip where he said that He didn't even say that He's already said it's not about realism Come on, you do focus this guy's a gold mine. Probably study some other stuff too You should go to school once for a day You guys haven't covered this guy before. No. No, it's new. This is a new discovery You need to know he's he's now in this video in total said like people who like michael agiles david Haven't seen buddy statues people who think that you know art is based on the way it looks probably haven't been to galleries You know what people who blah blah blah haven't seen blah blah blah I was like, yes, you're better than us. I get it. Can you make some arguments? Please the conservative guy at least is making arguments that are not always even bad Some of them are Some of them were shit, but some of them were some of them were like, yeah, I get where you're coming from, you know Well, I don't I mean this is the stricent effect being full effect. I want to see more of his videos Nah, I don't I'd way rather watch that guy's videos I mean if I was forced to watch one more of him or him, you know, I know which one I'm picking. All right. Yeah Oh, by the way, weird fact about Robert. He also composed the music for roar the tippy head. Oh, shit Where they just let up lions around what? No way Wait, so he's you Composer then as well Oh, then he obviously misspoke with the art thing About oh definitely. Yeah, I'm more than willing to completely agree on that I would still caution that you shouldn't do that even if you think it's intuitive that he was talking about uh That painting so it's still so don't do it But yeah, that's uh, I don't know why he's bringing this up because he seems to despise robert. This just seems cool And films. Yeah, that's just a fun fact about robert flork zack. That's a flork zack fact for you This guy knows art That's the crazy film right the people got it. Yeah, yes, but I mean that's not his fault If he did the composing of the soundtrack or something or whatever is his name in there I'm looking. I want to find him. I've got him here and I don't see him here as being the composer I've got him here as being a producer That's all I can got got shulk. Is that his name robert e got shulk flork flork zack flork zack Let's walk Floag well, then his name isn't on here robert flug flug maybe Maybe he's not just here on this part. I don't know. Yeah I don't know All right. No more robert charlie time. Oh, we're done with robert. Bye robert Goodbye robert for those of you who don't know who this is better. He is just a youtube. He's like markiplier if markiplier is just a youtuber cool Just a youtuber I don't know just a youtuber I mean, you know, we've got good faith and he's just saying by comparison to artists I've been covering like robert Accomplished artists who've been involved in movies and much of his own artworks, right? Well, hold on most critical was in one of the hunger games films Wait for real Yeah, well, it's kind of a meme. He put a video well partly So he put a video up where he was an extra in one of them and he kept sabotaging the shot by like moving into frame Um, so I think you can see that You can see like the top of his head in the cut that's in the finished version of the film So he is in the film, but I am also me. He's an actor You technically speaking. Yeah. He is an actor. Yeah And I'm just a youtuber. He's like markiplier if markiplier played fortnite instead of five. I do want to be his chair I don't even know what that means, but i'm gonna assume it's not it's a joke All right Cuttable is possible. These videos are from streams. So it's not like these are written and produced like robert forks Man, was yours written? It's just something in his little house that he lives in. I didn't even think about the fact that this was a scripted video. Damn I mean, I figured I figured it was scripted, but like god damn. Yeah Man, what do you what do you produce off the cuff? Fuck me. Yo art makes no sense Charlie is watching a video by solar sands about thomas king cake Solar sands Are they conservative? Well, so if they make it fun of art then yes Because you don't do that if you're no like good art you're conservative if you're if you like shitty art And you don't recognize that fucking baby. He's in chat right now solar sands That's Oh, hey, hello solar sands We're about to watch your work being watched by someone being reacted to by someone else. This isn't gonna be cringe During the entire lead up to the intro he won't stop assuming It's either Jackson Pollock or Damien Irish. These paintings make my corneas hurt. I'm ashamed that this Okay, so where do we begin with this like I'll be so critical doesn't like Damien Hurst or uh Jackson Pollock, I think was the other day was just dropped there That's fine I'm so fucking fine with that like someone being like I hate I can even be fine with hatred Because I assume that they hate that they sold for like millions or whatever when they're just splatterings. I understand But this has apparently offended the shit out of the guy who made this video So I'll have to see what the arguments are George is Damien Hurst of art. Gee these paintings must be pretty bad It's Damien Hurst, isn't it pictures of babies eating each other alive Charlie's already mad about modern art and this video isn't even about He's just smiling. He was smiling. He's bested around smiling. He's having a good time His smiling day for me Again, I want to clarify. I'm fine with people being mad overseeing what they believe to be shit. I'll be hyper successful. That's fine That's a I think it's okay to see, you know What you consider to be a movie that destroys an entire franchise making over a billion dollars and being a little bit Of sad about that. I think I think that's noble, right guys Yeah, yeah Modern art. It's about Ducky. It's that these people they want us to evolve instantly into stoicists whenever it suits them But otherwise they have to you have to really be in tune with your emotions and your emotions are just as valid as blah, blah, blah, blah So that's kind of interesting, but whatever. Ducky jigsaw puzzle art made by an evangelical alcoholic con man What does that have to do with what? So this is what we call poisoning the well. Yeah, so those paintings are fucking amazing Well, I was sorry. I'm rolling them back What just happened? Okay, so he's he's saying the video itself isn't even about the shitty art It's about this art as he's showing us right now, which by the way looks pretty damn cool I kind of understand what he means that this could be jigsaw art, but what's wrong with jigsaw art? Jigsaw puzzle art is often really good. There's a lot of great jigsaw puzzles But you think they you think they just make jigsaw puzzles of shitty art I don't understand like he's degrading the art by being like this would add to butter jigsaw. He like Okay Did I miss hear him or is he saying that those four painting or drawings were done by an alcoholic con man? Yeah An evangelical alcoholic con man. Yeah, what does rag said he's trying to make the Kind of poison the well. This is bullshit. Like what does that have to do? Yeah, this this video is clearly comparing artworks. Why would you be like? Yeah, but this guy made it as an alcoholic con man You're like, okay. Well, see that's that's the received wisdom That's the extra information that you need in order to properly understand the artwork I see. I guess To complete this jigsaw puzzle you need to understand That this guy drinks a lot. That's what I just said. Is he guys seems like he's trying to tell us how to think about that Interesting These are the kinds of paintings. Those quotes are referring to Artists are late artists. Thomas Kincaid. God damn it. He's so mad about paintings that aren't even in the video He's getting distracted. I hate that's fine. So it's his most critical is what we call a human being And when they react to videos By the way thumbs up for reacting to the video Good job. You're doing a bare minimum thing I like I just love that he's like he's distracted with his frustration. That's been brought on by the subject of the video That's not necessarily a what's on screen right now. It's like Yeah That's okay He can think about things that aren't necessarily 100 percent what's on screen at the moment. That's all right Hey, Thomas Kincaid with every fiber of my being our long channel that energy to someone that deserves it like Damien See This video has already brought me more joy than yours and he's been on the screen for 15 seconds If those images we saw the four the jigsaw puzzle ones Someone said I hate them because that doesn't give us reasons like they look, you know generic or Whatever reasons, um, that's fine as well It's uh, but most critical, I guess is trying to say like, yeah, but they're a hell of a lot better Than a Damien Hurst image I suppose which by I don't understand why I haven't seen anything objectionable yet. I don't know why more people don't hate people like Damien Hurst and Jackson Pollock Their work is the most Damien guy I just see why more people don't hate them. That's just a funny that's a funny sentence Awful dog shit shit ever and when someone points out in the chat that all art is subjected He says this it is estimated his business brought in a hundred million dollars in revenue annually Art is always subjective. Yeah, until it comes to Damien Hurst and Jackson Pollock Which by the way that is everyone's opinion is subjective other than this though Always what happens it is objectively dog shit Which i'm not the biggest hush head in the world, but Pollock really the three artists that were I understand Pollock more than Hurst in terms of people Or yeah, Pollock I'd be like I could put that on my wall and walk by it occasionally Sure Sure beginning of this video could not have less in common Charlie says that most modern artists can't pay Like a face or anything like that. I guarantee you Damien Hurst Jackson Pollock all of like your most famous artists Like more modern artists. I guess Jackson Pollock doesn't fit into that I guarantee they couldn't draw a single person's face. They couldn't paint a single thing that looks like anything. This is Wow Charlie go brutal a challenging critique he then immediately oh shut up like you've done that throughout this video Does he have nothing for that then because that's kind because it'd be interesting to give you a pointed out No, they're actually like hyper competent in that field, but they choose to do this I think it is absolute cringe that you've taken a stream where he's looking at a video about art Comparing it and stuff and then he just says about some of the artists. He doesn't like Jackson Pollock and everything they couldn't draw anything that looks like anything like it's it's such a casual comment Then he's like well, that's not very constructive criticism The product of conservative propaganda. Remember Yes, this is Prager used propaganda bleeding into Charlie's head. Unfortunately, he's been infected Gotta save him defends Bob Ross who rarely ever painted faces because those are hard to paint Yeah, I remember Bob. Hang on Bob Ross paints things that look like things though I is he actually wait what wait, sorry. Where is he going with this? Can we rewind a little bit? Well, he's not gonna he's not gonna like shit on Bob Ross, right? He well, no, you have to so we have to remember about him. He's Yeah, Charlie will like Bob Ross and he's saying yeah, Bob Ross can't paint faces But to be fair to Charlie his broad point was that they couldn't draw anything that looks like anything What do you think the implication of that is? Well, yeah, hence why I was looking at this up. That's a random result for Bob Ross. It's like that looks like something That looks a bit crowded Dull, where's the flavor? Exactly, it's it's you know, it's just so uninspired. Yeah Like this one of the disingenuous shit like we know I'm going to say intuitively we just know that when he says palette can't draw something like this or paint something like this We know exactly what he means. It's like you can't splatter your way to this Like you actually have this just takes this you can't you can't Stumble upon something like this. You can't accident this. This is something that you have to make It's something you have to do with a deliberateness However, if you do make a happy little accident, don't you worry about it. That's right Because he had a great attitude on on uh On odd. I like happy accident. That's such a that's such a fun Sort of wire frame in it, isn't it? Yeah, some people in some people in the chat right now are happy little accidents Oh my god Really ever painted faces because those are hard to paint. Yeah, I remember bob ross was shit upon by most like fart sniffing artists back in the day This is pretty fun. It has any form or shape to it or anything that looks like it took time and effort Anything that it looks like it took time and effort face charlie. Yeah, I know right Very frowned upon in the community I don't think the level of realistic face you can paint determines your value as an artist Is that is that the extent of what he was saying? Do you think that's the point that he's making he's making an observation Which is isn't it interesting that some of these guys can't do that? So they feel and they do something else instead There's such a desperation to deconstruct every last thing being said and everything that somebody every artist when It's super simple and you can even say wrong. I don't blame you for that to say Pollock is splattering Bob Ross is constructing like an image based on real life and it approximates it pretty damn close And you can tell how much effort and talent and time went into it. That's the point He doesn't like artists who splatter getting all of like recognition and selling their works for millions of dollars It's a super straightforward and super normal perspective Albert florks act paints faces all the time they sock that doesn't make his work any less bland Also, why are you gunning for charlie? Like what's the fucking point of this like got to get that moist critical got to respond to his stream Where he casually checked out a video quickly about like why why wouldn't you want to go for like the most prominent art reviewers? If they had the these sort of perspectives Yeah, because he's not an expert in this at all moist critical is not an expert in this at all He's just he's a guy that's been shown a thing. So it I mean he's already this guy's already I think made clear his motivation in going for him But Well, he wants to make a grander point about like propaganda seeping into the minds of the innocent or something which is insane Value as an artist robert florks act paints faces all the time. They sock that doesn't make his work any less bland Wait, did you say they suck they suck? I thought we saw several of his faces. They did not suck. So here's the problem Uh, you made the critical error of showing us their thing Next time Do you lies a bit better dude? There are better ways to lie like not showing us the truth Uh charlie gets really frustrated at the definition of the word kitsch because he thinks it's pretentious Kitsch is unlike art a utilitarian object lacking all critical distance between object and observer God these people are so fucking pretentious. It hurts He doesn't really elaborate But i'm going to assume that he's saying that it's pretentious to seek meaning in art that looks passable enough No, I think he's saying that it's pretentious to give a word to the concept of not adhering to like Uh, real life or whatever I think he he would respect the concept that you could have something that's abstract That he sees i'm guessing kitsch as like an excuse like a way to categorize it that escapes Uh criticism like if someone said pollock is kitsch and you don't understand it He'd be like, yeah, fuck off. I I understand it well enough that sort of attitude But I don't know Because this is all said very quickly in a stream seemingly almost at random He's looking for a fucking intricate view of the world the challenges thought process with a fucking jigsaw puzzle Like it doesn't need to mean anything So why are you mad that it doesn't especially when modern art is just baby doodoo doodles and crayon Thomas kinkade robert florkzak. It doesn't matter uninspired art is uninspired art. What? That's crazy. If you're robert How do we find out if something is uninspired or not definitive? Yeah, what does it mean for something to be uninspired art, you know Like really and truly if we want to delve into it It would require that you have background knowledge about the artist. Yeah, you need Yeah, you need it. You need knowledge you probably wouldn't have Yeah, like in most cases, you're not gonna have the knowledge and then if he was like you can tell someone inspired or not just by looking at it I'd be like, okay You know, well, yeah, no, we already know that you can't because of the The the white pieces of paper one that he showed Like in order to even know that that is a piece of art you have to know that someone painted it Um, some people said that it catches uh the reverse as in like kitchen was what remained good while everything else was Not non kitchen. I don't have uh It's not a weird. I'm not familiar with I was just going from what I saw on screen What is thomas king kade paint cottages god in the form of like light behind a cottage Just like with robert's little apron trick earlier pollux work is often extremely misrepresent He painted what hell looks like this is like the real hell show us It's just abstract dog shit that even a child can make and yeah, if Okay, why did you not show me that thing? I I What am I to do with this if I can't see it? Well, google's your friend on this one pollock. Hell what it's jackson pollock. Hell Okay, so he painted hell and apparently charlie's reaction to this image was the it looks like shit that a child could do Now, what do you guys think? Yeah, I I think I'm with charlie on this one. I think a child could do this. Yeah I think a child connects Yeah, hell is the fact that this is Probably an insanely valuable I would love to know what would happen if you showed that photo to someone photo painting to someone What is this a painting of none of them are going to say? I would say And he just no matter if he says he painted hell. They're like, yeah like a fucker line Yeah, I I don't know mad if you told me that this is hell I just be like, oh, well, so let's let's be real. What are you gonna say after a while of trying to construct a meeting for it? You're like, well the chaos the um the Contrast of the black and the white clashing and you're just like, yeah, what else you gonna fucking say There's nothing else to say The way that the colors are different from one another Is basically what you can say We talked about arcane for like 25 hours We're not gonna be able to talk about this without log, okay Well, we could but most of it would start to be so disconnected from this painting Yeah, so season six of efap is where things really I And this is the thing if you just hype a zoom into it take like a piece out recreate it Like I get a child to try and recreate it on an apron and then show him it and he's like, those are shit stained I just feel like yeah, okay. You can always tell the difference. This is a shit stain It was a shit stain on our civilization If you did genuinely try to talk about that painting for 25 hours or whatever it was um, you would end up spending most of the time talking about the concept of hell But if you don't know that that's what it is, then you're at a dead end A whole bunch of what we would be talking about would be derived from other creative works as well I kind of yeah, I regret now What I should have done ahead of time is to show you guys that image and then how to give you each five guesses Yeah, like That would have been revealing that it's called hell after a while would be so funny, especially if one of you would guess Hell is a joke A child had the ziggler is way better than jackson pollock Um, I don't I I don't have much um, how do I put this in a nice way? Jackson pollock doesn't impress me I I kind of enjoy some of the imagery I guess in some way shape or form But like if someone said what do you think of him as an artist? I'd be like, I mean, you know I've known about him since like high school. He was one of the people that would get To as like the guy who does this right kind of like the quintessential example of throne painted stuff and And then people I don't know much about him. Yeah, I just to me always seemed like a hypothetical come to life Which is fine. I by the way in terms of like this plenty. I don't know about him I'm sure he's great abstract dog shit that even a child could make and yeah, if a child had the same mental illness and chronic addiction And somehow got a hold of one of the giant canvases he would nail on the ground spent hours upon hours Splattering paint to cover the entire okay You can do as much of a delay delivery of hours and hours of but as soon as it ends with splattering paint Doesn't quite maintain that impressive nature. Does it? Yeah, like all of that all of that preamble to the to the payoff of splattering paint. You're like Yep, it all leads to it all leads to the sequel trilogy Yeah But you understand it took mental illness. It took injury. It took life experience It did take mental illness I'm that we agree Again, how difficult it was for him to create and how long it took that doesn't have any bearing on how good it is that Not necessary. Well, it would it does to him like his standard, which again, that's okay. If that's something you include It's not something I include necessarily Higher thing maybe Charlie's point about kids being able to do the same thing as Pollock would make a little more sense Love him or hate him. He was really painting on the floor. You don't have to look like Like a child. Yeah, I don't understand What Pollock's work you can hate lucifer my favorite one of a fuck's sake Why why is it your favorite? Exactly I think that one's shit by Jackson Pollock standards I uh, I like the other one that we saw more than that one. How do I know that green images like this The the thoughts I end up having right I'll have them and partially enjoy them Maybe and then I'll start to question whether or not it's the painting or if it's me As if so first of all one of the first things I went to and seeing this behind him was like cancer in the brain or something And then yeah, it would be like it'd be like oh, is that the painting because like and then you find out of course that It's called lucifer. You like okay, so it probably had nothing to do with what I thought it was and so now like I don't know hell more than lucifer I think I like hell more than lucifer as well I like hell more than lucifer and I know maybe in the art in the art community. That's a really controversial Yeah, maybe I'm sort of going against the grain here But I can't see lucifer properly because this guy's face is in the way So maybe there's a really important bit behind the important bit in the middle. Yeah Yeah, it's a little picture of a little devil Um I should find if there's like a list. Maybe we can still do that thing. I suggest it actually Pollock or five-year-old Because I'll see if I can find a funny one actually. Hang on. Give me a sec. Talk about something random you bucks I sure do like um Okay, this one might be perfect What what did you find something that oh god? This is yes. This is the one play artistic. Okay, so what I'll do Obviously is show you it and chat and then I will give you each five guesses as to what the title is And then I shall reveal it when all of you fail because that is the only outcome Is this a pollock painting or you're not are we not supposed to know? Yes, this is a pollock painting. I'm not gonna lie about that at least okay according to google it is And according to google I got the title of it as well So if you just to make sure there's nothing else that you see in terms of a stimulant If you want to boot the stream and just see the image and don't look at chat as well And we'll go one by one each of you And I gotta go to the screen. Okay. Yeah, I'm walking it's on screen now Yeah, because if I link it maybe the url gives something away as well, so I'm just gonna okay I got you so I'm looking at the picture. Mm-hmm. We'll go That is a jackson pollock painting. It has a title. We'll go Uh, we'll go we're free. Do you want to go first and then we'll go? You know you rags around a film talk and then you know again You get five guesses in total Guess a title for this painting and when you fail it five times. I shall tell you what it actually is How do I even begin to guess? Well, we it's not hella lucifer those are locked out. Okay, that makes it easier Is it uh I can't fucking wait to tell you the name of this Uh, is it is it called um Nightmare no rags Um, I'm gonna go with uh tar No random film talk, so I genuinely had nightmare written down as my first guess Their life, uh, my second guess is autism No fringy Okay, uh, is it called cold? No rags Graveyard No random film talk Fear no fringy. All right. Who's who's been closest? I'd say none of you So it's not some kind of abstraction then I don't want to confirm or deny anything It's just the none of what you've said so far evokes what I I think the title evokes. I don't know just so to speak Uh Uh Nope rags Spirits no random film talk Drowning. Nope fringy Uh Ghosts, I know you said spirits but ghosts. Nope rags. Um, I'm gonna say, um Industry no random film talk Smoke or or um, you smoke go with that. Nope fringy Okay, uh Light bulbs Rags Let me see. Um discontent. Nope final guess random film talk Uh I'm gonna just I'm gonna move my eyes over and look at chat and the first one I see is what I'm gonna say because I have no fucking idea Uh Lives of people No Okay Okay, that was a good guess So from from the tape this one and like I said, I just when I saw it on google. I was like I have to so This is what it's labeled. I'm gonna show you it instead of saying it just in case I've got anything wrong here It's in fact labeled yellow islands Oh Okay Okay, yeah, all right. Sure. Okay. All right I mean you were close ish with um, light bulbs Yeah, I saw the I saw the yellow bits and I was like, I wonder if that's what I need to be focusing on but uh, I would never have guessed yellow islands Yeah, I went for something dark and since well, so it's very intuitive because of the yellow ish background And the way that the black cuts through it creates all the islands Ah, right I'm noticing is definitely like not the yellow of the canvas back. That's a different shade for sure I thought it was interesting how all of us went for things that are spooky Yeah, but maybe that's a trick. You see your mind is so fixated on the shadow I don't appreciate the light because there's light even in shadow, you know even in dark Yeah, no, it's it's pretty. Yes. This is what I mean. It's you know, you haven't read the books. I've read you haven't been to the gallery Maybe one day if I go to a gallery, I'll learn about yellow islands Uh, somebody in chat just quickly imagine playing garlic phone with Pollock Jackson Jackson, what is that? He's like yellow islands What Just every image would end up as just a mess of spaghetti You can hate it, but if your reasons for hating it are it doesn't really look like anything. Yeah, no, I know I That's like the point. Oh my god Oh, it's it's supposed to be shit is that's what this argument is But even if that's the point like I can hate something for the point that it was made for by the way Oh, yeah It seemed like he was shitting on that other guy's paintings for what they were. Yeah Like he just like they were fundamentally, but that's valid because they were uninspired. Yeah, because he said technically they're good Yeah, exactly. He even had to concede that but then still shit on them for what they were But you're not allowed to dislike this for what it is like. Yeah, I get it. I just I don't pull anything from this I really don't no That's not really about that. Look how much paint is layered on this fucking thing Okay, my mind looks like oh, that's the amount of paint. That's what your mind looks like. What does your mind look like? You might need to see a doctor When I said it looked like cancer So looks like your mind. I did say braid but braid cancer Head I had to take a hot dog break. Anyway back to charlie He has this idea on stream to create a fake alias and sell really Shitty art on purpose. I thought it would be a really interesting idea if I did like some dog shitty damien Hurst Jackson Pollock style art under I mean, this is a meme as old as time. Yeah, it's funny What if I pretended like that I intended to make it look like, you know, what if I was just me being what if I was trolling And then just had like a really wealthy person. I know buy it for an absurd amount And I just give the money back obviously but making headlines Which a lot of people have already done prager. You actually did a That's an interesting idea by the way to go a step further than simply making it and hoping people buy it but to Have a friend. Yeah Pay all the money give it back to them. So then other people like, whoa, you're buying. Oh, that that's a that's a charlie moist critical Original look at it. Oh, wow. That is yeah. Mm-hmm. That's that's something really lazy version And we're gonna watch that now. Don't blame me blame charlie. I didn't want to watch any more of these Oh, yeah, yeah, you didn't want to make this video, okay So bad with will wit a will wit moment classic will wit the intern from prager you that looks like he's got nothing going on in his head I mean Maybe maybe gloss houses. You know, I don't know he Dennis a two-year-old and a five-year-old Made a bunch of paintings and he tried to get people to look at them on the street Will is trying to trick people in public, but the first thing you will notice Wait, I thought you said you can't trick people with that. You can't trick. Yeah, I mean It's about all of these things is that they all look like ass. Oh, I could make that. Oh, yeah, can you this is what you Yeah, every time someone's whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Whoa, what are you implying hang on that could be considered infinitely better or similar or worse? It's all up in the air. It's very much subjective. You can't just declare that this is worse than Pollux. Can you Can you better and worse? Wait a moment The flip that just how quickly he just breaches his own system Like clockwork, man It says modern art is like lazy and anyone can do it. I think back to these paintings the video very quickly derails And it becomes less about trying to compare their art to modern art and instead about trying to make people look stupid For commenting on it. What do you see in this one here? A dagger at your back apparently. It looks like a long sword dripping down the side So this kind of represents like japanese masculinity This is funny I mean, uh, I think that the the way to top this out would be a um A word randomizer with a little thing in his ear where he has to connect the Meaning of the piece to whatever word ends up coming out Yeah Do you remember um Oh, fuck. It's like a really funny clip. I think it's an interview for that relates to like mission impossible but simon peg Is saying words into someone who's getting an interview like the joke of it is that she's getting interviewed And she has to use the words that simon peg says Oh, yeah, yeah I remember laughing my ass off of that because it was funny as fuck I can't remember what the context was someone in chat might but I'd love that in a sketch where you have to take You know the painting of some two year old and then someone puts words into your ear And you have to justify that that's what the painting is about. It sounds like it'd be really fun kind of like how these shapes are kind of like This is a japanese influence and then it's all Kind of all over the place. We'll wait more like fucking wet noodle couldn't even come up with what the paintings are supposed to fake mean It's a meme dude. Oh, that's the whole Yeah All right. Also, what do you mean is his interpretation incorrect? Yeah, why can't what can he struggle to explain it when it's so dense With meaning he's he's struggling to get it out For him it's impossible, right because the fact that it was produced with a cynical purpose I suppose he'd be like, well, you know, I wouldn't even bother trying to like do some analysis Like I would have Jackson Pollock's thing because it's obviously bereft of merit or value But the only reason he knows of the context is is because he knows He's familiar with the video that they're in if he was presented with the videos without the context But the thing is is that that's uh His approach is that he needs the context always, right? He has to always Have it and that's an like inextricable component of his analysis It almost to me seems like his mind is made up before he even sees the art But there was there was no potential art that we would have just seen five seconds ago that he would have gone actually Yeah, that one was all right Uh, well, yeah, we've seen that throughout the video, right? Like he's got a very strong bias Uh against and for depending on who made it not not the law just who made it He had all the time he needed to figure it out and he couldn't figure it out He just didn't come up with anything will tries to convince these poor hostages that there should be some kind of like artistic Standard and none of them are really buying it. Do you think there are standards to art? Um, no, I think that it's just expressing yourself and everybody's expression is Valid, I think every um the problem is that people say before they think about it at all Really? Well, but she might be correct if she thinks the question is what makes art art And if she if the question is just what you know, it sounded like he was asking What makes it good or bad? But the thing is the problem is standard what standard needs to be achieved for art to be art and then she's like Just expression, you know, I mean like there's a lot of ways that could have been interpreted I don't know if she thinks there's no such thing as quality in art. There's just art Not sure I can't tell Everybody has their own personal standards, right? But do you think there is like a higher standard of like what art should be or what things should look like? You know in more a sense. No, not at all. And then he does the big reveal. Oh, guess what kids Did everyone have that opinion or just some people? It's a normal opinion. I think a lot of people wouldn't want to say like art should look a particular way Um, without further context You know, like when you tell them should life drawing be accurate to life, they'd probably be like, well Yes, I guess. Yeah, but like it's art probably Yeah, when you say This is I mean, I don't even know what the what's the answer to the question. What should art look like or what should art be? Yeah, that's that's a incredibly complex question These were done by children. What would you think? I believe you believe it. It'd be so great if you had a Jackson Pollock painting among those Oh, yeah, there you go They were Even though everyone already already kind of now if I wait, but what how does that help you? How does that help you? What do you mean? They knew they could look at it and they could tell Must not be very good I know it looks not a good like painting and think that a kid did it Yeah, we weren't looking at prega you guys Paintings and thinking this was done by a child and it got put on the fridge like those were really good paintings However, if it were we'd be like, holy That is true And it was so objectively embarrassing that I already had to edit it down I'm going to be honest with you. What you showed me was kind of interesting and funny. Um I don't the problem is like when they make a video That's supposed to prove like modern art is bad and that they should be standards And then they come across someone who says I don't think art should be standardized in any particular way I don't think that means the video like failed or is bad. That's just yeah, you got a genuine reaction from someone. That's fine I mean, I don't watch prega you but like the clips he's given He makes it sound like we're watching one of the worst channels on the internet But they're mostly fine At least the ones he's shown down to like three minutes and it was still this cringe. I would just not it wasn't really cringe I don't think so your cringe I just wouldn't post it the comments in this video are really funny because they're so clearly biased against modern art That they're clinging on to anything they can to make their point. Does it make you feel any kind of way? Uh confuse give that kid a medal I'm a classically trained Realist artist if you guys only knew how hard it was to learn the skill of the masters because of these people Oh It may or may not surprise you to know that the realist classical Ataliers and academies are not eligible for accreditation and therefore promising students cannot receive loans or grants Yet at a modern art school you get a free ride for edgy period blood paintings. You did your senior year of high school Again, we never sucks. Yeah, wouldn't that suck if you worked your ass off to be able to be Like of a high standard within the standard of maybe realism whatever else and then you'll beaten out by someone who splattered period blood on a wall Yeah, if that's true that absolutely sucks. Yeah, it fucking sucks. That'd be awful Never talk about like real examples. It's just like oh, no those They are real examples though. You have it in my fight art course. Um There was a girl who did I kind of threw a vagina drawings or sculpture, but the um They were it was either period blood or used tampons that were in the thing and I remember being like, okay Okay, uh, I'm gonna go back to I was drawing characters and cartoons and stuff illustration and Uh life drawing. I like them. That was more fun and photography. I like them too It was a foundation course. It was fun, but that was Bit much for me sometimes and if someone said like you're not looking at the meaning of it I'll be like no, no, no. I was following. I instead she explained it as well It's just not my preference for all that's all And I do think it's more impressive to draw photorealistic with like a pencil that that blows me away compared Oh, shit that they make up that never happened. It does happen. Why are you pretending like it doesn't? It literally does. We were just talking happens all the damn time not an hour or so ago Take to a wall the shit in a can Yeah, why are you pretending like this doesn't happen? It totally does and it sells for hundreds of thousands of top millions as an artist I think modern art sucks. I have standards cutting to a little later on in charlie's video He's insulted by an art critic's assessment of king kate's work. We think it's stupid art for stupid people. How can you like Like how do you read this and not just get insulted? Like reading pretentious garbage like this is so upsetting to me Look what they used was stupid art for stupid people, which is definitely harsh But I think king kate definitely deserves it He made simplistic digestible accessible hotel art because he knew that hotels and grandmas had to put something on their wall Um, I don't I guess I just don't care that much like someone saying that the king kate stuff Is simple and unchallenging or whatever I should be like, okay. It's still pretty though And probably took a decent amount of skill to make so I don't know, you know, I mean like it's But it's something more than he usually gives I'll give him that Even though it's not him. It's he's reading the comments I guess churned out hundreds and hundreds of paintings and recreations just to make money But isn't that what people hate about modern artists? They just churn out whatever they they just they're not quite It's the the the pieces are making so much money when they don't feel they deserve to Very straightforward reaction a lot of people have It's not like I don't think anybody takes issue with people making money off art as a concept in and of itself Well, some people might but you know what I mean canvas and they sell it for all that money What do you think this asshole was doing they hate that Picasso can churn out a hundred canvases a deck abstract art is so much More challenging. Well, don't you think I was to the the amount of skill and technical, you know Like like how in-depth And difficult something is to do if you can do it a hundred times a day and you're making like canvases of art Like isn't that You know, like if someone said if Michelangelo got hired to paint that ceiling in the Sistine Chapel And after two days, he was like, well, I'm done. Like wouldn't that worry the fuck out of you? Also He's like said that an art piece being challenging is automatically like a better state of being That true. I don't know. I don't know. I don't see why it would be. I don't Is it more challenging to have a sad face than a happy face? And does I mean the art piece is better now? I don't know Good canvas is a deck abstract art is so much more challenging to conceptualize and actually execute Unlike a tree that Thomas Kincaid painted the why why it's really fucking good I noticed that how you could say that like the tree is easy the abstract art is challenging I just don't that's horse shit. You're sitting here. Like I can't imagine the level of skill It would take to paint this and he's like, oh, yeah, but you can't even see the brush tropes on this white box Look at the glow on the on the light. I know he's talking about the tree not the glow, but On the ice. I like how cozy it is I find out how unbelievable it is how just quickly he will throw out these incredibly dismissive sweeping statement Yeah, but it's not challenging Although also presenting himself as being the enlightened nuanced art guy It's not even he's gone backward. Like it seems like he's actually gone backwards and so you are backwards Yes, compared to the way that he described himself before This is just a backwards way to look at art to Constantly spending the whole time telling us how to think about it too Like I think that's the overwhelming vibe I get from this chill out Like just chill like some Freaking out like and being so um Like knee jerk sort of responses whenever you feel challenged on your perspective on modern art Why is it so relative, you know, why is it why is it so relativistic like all of it's wait, is that that's not the right word Why is it so relative So charlie is still mad that people pay millions of dollars for jackson pollock paintings make sense And then of course this we think it's stupid art for stupid people Yet people paying millions for jackson pollock's absolute trash Like four people that have ever been able to do that none of which were really Unable to it's points is that it the fact that it is worth that much seems absurd to him It doesn't even need to be true necessarily that it's happened in theory It would be would be enough that the pollock could ever sell those for a significant amount of money is offensive to him That's I understand that position It's so straightforward. And then the fact that he's like that's only happened like four times like what What it's happened four times apparently. Yeah, I don't have no idea, but the point is obviously very clear It shouldn't that's what charlie's position is Don't 100 necessarily agree, but I can understand why it would annoy someone if they see that happen Really worth anything until after he was dead unlike kink aid Pollock made lucifer for a friend and gave it to him as a gift this have to do with anything Wow, thanks for lucifer Now it's on display at the at stanford universe. Okay kinkades work on the other hand is meant to be purchased a lot of times So which oh, this is so annoying. What does this have to do with anything? Well, uh easy pollock made it for the sake of like an emotional artistic intention while kinkade made it for sale So there's less challenge and meaning in kinkades work Just I guess intrinsically. I don't know he's saying all of this like we should just agree with the like underlying sentiment Alone drains his work of a lot of soul and yeah, see there's no soul in kinkades work This is the lack soul external meaning not that santa's night before christmas is all that engaging of a painting Oh, fuck off, man. What the hell like You can't just draw santa in a snowy place in a cabin and expect me to say that the art is meaningful That's ridiculous. No soul Charlie stops watching this video to start looking up modern art examples at sf momma I am curious. What gets seen in high-class museums now. I'm pretty sure all of it is that Super trash thing like a banana tape to a wall or like banksies balloon pictures stuff like that Let me see. Well, I mean even on just their home page like their art collection here's kind of ass I think it's good to show kids stuff like this. I mean Yeah, that's that is nothing to do with what charlie said necessarily Like charlie said do not show children this Is that better or worse than the three blank canvases? You asking me or do you approximate what you think? Oh, I'm no, no, no, I'm not I'm I'm wondering what you guys think Um, because I don't I'll take I'll take this over the blank ones. I guess Yeah, this is something at least it's like they had to work minimally to get this hung up. I guess I'm uh I feel like this would be an example to point to of how much work i'm doing But I don't think is there I feel like I see a platypus Maybe a stingray I see some animals here and it's like, yeah, but that's my brain fucker with me Yeah, it's not Doesn't this kind of look like the ones from the prager video the kid Yeah, I don't know why yeah, that's uh, yeah, it does But you know what yeah, this guy this guy would see right through it He could tell when it's done artistically versus when it's not This looks like something that would go on your fridge Yes I might demand higher standards for my children Painting uh, maybe not my favorite, but also sfmoma is full of tacky lame shit anyway It is a seven story museum. It has everything. It's full of tacky lame shit. Oh my god. That already looks really impressive I was gonna say why do we hate this now? If you get a chance to go you really should it's a great experience and it helped change my it's full of tacky lame shit You should go Okay, this is one of those rooms. I wouldn't spend too much time in I don't know it depends what's in it. I don't know I mind a lot about modern art I think you would even change someone like charlie's mind if he actually gave it a fair shot But anyway, he moves on to some random website called contemporary art dot com But instead of actually engaging with it or talking about what he does or doesn't like about it He just dances around it and uses it as an example You didn't talk about why you liked or disliked a lot of the things in this video I know you just said it was my favorite. This is my favorite flavor flavor That was the most I think he talked about that and criticizing the the venus Meanwhile, this is a guy on a stream talking about how modern art is kind of shit Boots up a bunch of pictures scrolls down through them and starts laughing Well, like that's just normal behavior. What you're doing is a full Like coming up to 45 minute Scripted video and you can't even be bothered to tell us why you think something is good or bad beyond soul flavor style spirit So modern art is bad You gotta really stop and digest this one. Actually, there's a there's a lot going on here I like that one. I don't I don't hate that one. No, that's uh Looks kind of interesting. That was a tv, right? Look, it's like it's all popping out of the tv and it's kind of interesting callous game And there's a neat texture to it. Ducted. I think see look, I can do I could take like a yeah, I don't like this one so much. Yeah This one's kind of this one If I paid for a ticket of admission and I walked into a room that had this I'd be like give me my fucking money back What I said about the Film festival with yms I would only want to go to this if it was with friends because I would want to feel insane I'd be like Let's walk right up to him and talk about the bluff and then move on to the next one That's the fun to me. It wouldn't be the pieces themselves I need my tether to reality reminding me. I'm not actually insane. You intended the reality If you lose if you get sucked into the black hole like I could just imagine the artist stand next to them and they've got like the cap of face. They're just like do you like it? I like the idea that they're right next to you just hovering over your shoulder You look at it. You look to the right and their face is like they're right within, you know Like a few centimeters just staring and you watch like tell me about it The guy who made this video is like these are amazing and the cap face artist is like, yeah Man, I feel like a meme for like a potential, I don't know like horror story parody cartoon would be like A realm where you have to find Interpretations of the modern art or else you like disintegrate or something you have to you just have to keep coming up with interpretations of things that don't And the longer it goes on the more obtuse and abstract They become to the point that it becomes really difficult to keep generating new interpretations I mean that could there's another saw movie being made so That could Trappers present me with a really good interpretation of this abstract art or you will die You will have your eyes plucked from you or something Yeah, jigsaw got pissed off with people like the guy who made this video and just plunked him in a room with a bunch of art And said like you've got it You've got to tell me which of these were actually painted by a five-year-old and which ones were painted by like a you know a painter All right, well, yeah, I mean it seems like it could be uh, it could be yeah, that that feels like a game show Was it you know, jackson pollock or a kid? Like in terms of a painting The most art music exhibits I imagine. What does that mean? It's not and listen, I don't even hate these paintings again If I saw what they actually I mean, it depends on what it depends on what yeah, uh, like I don't know that I you can go to Plenty of uh galleries that are just filled with your more classical Romanticism, you know baroque all sorts of uh, I guess what you would you know What people generally think of when they think of like an art gallery Um, also, I don't hate these. I kind of nothing them. I feel like they're awkward and weird I don't hate these but I don't yeah like what am I to do with them? Yeah, I guess that's what I could hate There's kind of a there's kind of a plaid You know pattern there that's kind of neat, but I don't know why we've taken blocks out of it Yeah, I looking at these. I just don't understand what I'm looking at which maybe that's the point That's a thing you're you're a pleb. You're a Philistine. You're not you're not enlightened Dude, I I'm sorry, but I do feel like that's a lot of what this comes down to as it makes It's it's like a way to feel more enlightened and intelligent than the like the plebs Be a lot easier to actually look like it'd be a lot easier to have an opinion on it And I think that's why charlie doesn't even have an opinion on it He's just using them to critisize. He's just laughing at it because he thinks it looks bad. It's very simple. There's nothing complex happening here It's so bizarre that we had too big prank of you like Videos in here and then it's like yeah, here's charlie talking on a stream Just about why he doesn't like jackson polka. Do have that other guy Well, and to be able to try to connect them to this loose wire of like you guys just like it when things look like real life Even though he showed us a clip where he explicitly didn't say that but like me I I can't felt full for propaganda I am above we see all these losers like charlie and the fucking prairie you people They look at the artwork and then decide whether or not they think it's meaningful or well made this guy this genius This non-propagandist you'll look at what other people say about it and then decide if he Well, there is no deciding you'll just absorb it actually But also very authoritatively ordain the the works from people he doesn't like have no value no inspiration No nothing behind them Yeah, but they're the wrong wing. So if they were the right one or rather the left wing then He uh, they'd be it'd be great and good to go because There's something just infinitely hilarious to me that he's like He had to be told what the meaning of these pieces were to like them And yet he's like accusing that of everyone else that everyone has to be baby fed to what they mean It is it is fascinating It's it's just like good old cognitive dissonance. Is it cognitive dissonance? Or is it something else? Or is it just Good old hypocrisy. I'd say projection maybe like he's projection. He's doing the thing that he's saying everyone else is doing You're all you need to be told how to interpret not like me. I know I'm Not only does he have to be told he has to tell us then already or not. Yep. That's right general lack of self-awareness Oh Quite significantly. Yes. Besides all of modern art. He mentioned selling the paintings for 50 grand Here's some canvases that there's like some scribbles on it somewhere in there I don't know just hanging up put like 50 grand on it. Someone's gonna buy it And we'll talk more about how modern art critics are constantly complaining about how much art costs when it's literally just a money laundering tool It's literally just a money laundering tool. Well, I mean sometimes sure but like not always Yeah, you could do it that way. I suppose. Mm-hmm. It's just it's just funny that like We can't we can't just accept the point for what it is. It has to be something crazy or different By the 1% and it has nothing to do with the actual art itself. But where did 50 grand come from? He just made it exactly. It just it's a big number $50,000. It's a lot. You could do a lot with that. He doesn't think the random scribblings are worth $50,000 That's the point he's making. Okay, very simple. You don't need to look into it so hard Keep that up. Yep. There is no record that this piece has ever been sold or ever had any offers on it For all I know every piece Charlie looked at it's a joke It doesn't need to have actually happened Didn't make any money I mean the next exhibit is just a bunch of boxes and a sit and go like that is explicitly something to experience Okay, so this would be one if we were walking through and you guys started looking at it I'd be like, are you sure this is an exhibit? Are we should there be like a are we allowed in this room yet? Are they done? Is everything still packed up? Yeah, you need like a plaque saying series of boxes by you know somebody like Oh, okay, okay, I think to own and I think that's an even better version of art The only thing though is Charlie never actually looked at what it was. He just saw a picture of boxes and didn't investigate any further He's what it is. That's not necessarily what it means. Why is it the with Visual imagery of artistic works. I have to go and inspect how and why they were made instead of just seeing them for what they are Why is that something I have to do? Why am I being shamed for not doing that? He's just looking at a picture of it. I don't think he knows what the whole thing is And so he starts joking about what the piece could possibly be about. It's pretty funny, dude. It's a bunch of boxes It just looks like a warehouse. So this is the thing The reason it's funny is because if you've worked at a noble job Got into the warehouse. You're like, oh, you're in an art gallery Look at that. Isn't that crazy? What crazy meaning that is going to be attributed to it? Is our our his carry on carry on was it like you you have to ask yourself. What's in those boxes? Are we purchasing too much? It's a display of excess And you see how there we do with the meme and it's funny. Yeah, it's a display of excess. Yeah Blind up the same. There's a pattern to it. There's order in the chaos And then you also have to wonder who packed these boxes. Is it amazon workers that are miserable and you can feel the hate Is it someone like maybe a home business with a family that packed me? There's just so many things you have to ask yourself This really is a challenging piece. And then he doesn't look up what it actually even managed to parody you Look up what it actually is. That's pretty funny. It's like, uh, because he's wrong But Charlie the Ed said it's really challenging piece. This guy not a few minutes ago said like the better pieces of the ones that challenge Yeah, that's right. Oh my god Also, our hasty interpretations invalid because he was wrong They're invalid because it was a correct interpretation. You have to line up with what the artist wants you to think or else You're wrong. There is no such thing as good or bad art But there is such a thing as corrected incorrect interpretations of By this guy's logic This is like super life of the author You you were having you were having the incorrect Um takeaway from this art because you didn't even look up what it really meant The author has determined the way that the art is meant to be experienced and and um, I guess, uh Meant to be I got what's the word The way that the art was meant to be like interacted with or What would the takeaway should be from it sort of yeah in this case? I think anything In any way that you think that doesn't line up with what the artist wants is an incorrect interpretation So this is like the opposite of death of the author. This is like the eternal author. Yes At which point you wonder like what the point of the art existing independently of a big paragraph that explains to you What is even the point of that? Yeah Yeah, what's the point of an investing in a vacuum? It needs to always have footnotes Uh, all of the preliminary sketches and just all of them the writing is a total explanation Talk to bottom This is what this means just so that you know How to engage with the art because if you're not engaging with the art as I intended as the creator You are doing it wrong You've done it wrong If you play a video game and you mess it like moley you engage with the last of us too wrong Meming about it. Oh, yes, of course I broke it to play that way. That's yeah, you broke it, which is that's very cruel And also, um, I like to I'm really surprised. I hadn't noticed it before but this this uh Genuine gentleman here his glass frames are hexagons Oh, just very unusual. I've no I don't think I've ever seen those that those are amazing. Um Yeah Oh my god, I just noticed he got shadow the hedgehog on the uh, that's the other stick I was waiting for a while Because I saw dr. Robotnik there because he was often facing that way But now I see he's got shadow the hedgehog as his other sticker and robot nick What's this other tattoo? It's like a like a leg with a chain or something. Can you see all of me? Something relevant Expensive Modern art she mistook for trash. No, she did a mistake of her trash. That is trash Oh, that's I've heard about that. Yeah, a cleaning woman in an Italian gallery accidentally threw away thousands of dollars of art by New York modernist Paul Branca when she mistook his crumpled newspaper cardboard and cookie installation scattered across the floor For garden variety trash the pieces Estimated to be worth around $15,000 were apparently intended to make viewers think of the environment We are obviously very sorry for what happened city marketing commissioner Antonio Maria Vestil said The gallery says they do not blame the cleaning woman who did not realize she had thrown away two works of This is fucking priceless If you're the kind of artist and you're having your your work mistaken for trash and thrown away That's not that can't be very good. I'm you know I remember I remember it was uh because there was a sleepy Uh, there was a sleepy cast episode where they were talking about the hating modern art And I remember that one of the attic doze that was brought up I think it was there was this guy who everything that he made Like the town that he lived in always perceived it as being like amazing And so one day because he was so pissed off about it He like took a shit and then put it in like a glass cabinet or something And then put it up on display just to push it as far as he couldn't and everybody thought it was great Just shit in a can I don't know. Is that true? Does that sound familiar to anybody in chat or somebody who got so mad that they I can believe it Highlighting is exactly what charlie's joking about it's what we've joked about this guy's like infinitely offended by it When it's like just join the joke. There's plenty of good modern art. There's plenty of shit literal shit Actually means he also doesn't understand even what he's looking at. So none of the jokes really land. No, they did I liked him. It was it worked for us. We thought it was funny Especially the power he said what they made with hatred if by amazon workers like that that sounds Just funny like the it doesn't quite light up. It's like crooked with anger Because charlie isn't talking about what's in front of him. He's talking about what he thinks is in front of No, it literally is what's in front of him. What do you mean? It's I guess not literally wait Sorry, can we hear that one more time please means and he also doesn't understand even what he's looking at So none of the jokes really land because charlie isn't talking about what's in front of him He's talking about what he thinks is in front of charlie. Um, he's correct. No, he's correct. He was he was engaging He's not talking about what's in front of him. He's talking about what he thinks is in front of him Isn't that what we all do all the time? Is that what everybody does? Yeah, isn't that what it means to like exist Like like most things that you deal with are apparent as they appear Yeah, like, um, if we're gonna get this obtuse about it Like how often you talk about what you think is in front of you versus what you know is in front of you You'd be like, why are you even? I mean do we want to even wheel out, you know Do we even want to wheel out the whole idea of like perceiving the world world as rule of representation or any of that shit? This is cringy shut up Why don't you just say he didn't look up the meaning he finds it shit when he may not have thought It was shit had he known the context of it. It's a fine point. You can bring up He's still making fun of how on its face a lot of modern art is basically just stuff silly Yeah, a lot of us very silly You're making a fool out of yourself. There's so many more boxes than that. I think there are wow That doesn't change anything this installation and I think More boxes than I thought there are so many ways to interpret it, but his is wrong because his is more boxes So it's better his was memes though My interpretation of this piece of art would change fundamentally if I knew that there were more boxes Yeah, what he thinks is in front so many you're making a fool out of yourself There's so many more boxes than that I think there are so many different ways to interpret this installation And I think writing it off is a little aggressive. What are you scared too many boxes engaged with it? He did he did the opposite of what he's saying he did Charlie looked at it. He laughed then he gave a bunch of jokes about what it could possibly mean Obviously implying that if he was given the true meaning that he would find it as meaningful as his own made-up ones because there's so much of a disconnection It's insane like the point where it almost makes the artwork irrelevant Now i'm not saying that that means that would go for any explanation behind it Nor would it necessarily account for the uh efforts put into constructing it or anything It's just that this is a very common sentiment and it's super easy. It's not right wing It's just a perspective a very normal one like I said I mean the fact that the boxes are filling a synagogue is significant Charlie didn't even know that even though the synagogue is on earth The thing about that wow and earth is part of the cosmos Oh my goodness. Is that what you know or what you think rags? It's what I believe to be true. Oh my god. We added a third one What we know what we think and what we believe Yeah, did you choose that though or do you I choose all the things Regardless of context That was he was written but charlie was still so mad at the picture. He didn't even like see he was laughing, dude He was he was big. No, he was big mad. I even care if he was mad whatever who cares That's not even critique. That's just refusing to engage with art charlie's getting It's not critique. It's refusing to engage What if you just don't buy the engagement that you're told to it? Isn't this what he was talking about at the beginning of the video You're telling charlie how to engage with it. You're babying You told us that's bad and conservative stop being a conservative sir You're ruining a bit of a conservative my dude. I think you need to chill Mad at this art because he doesn't understand it. Yeah, that's that's the key. We don't understand the art When someone presents to you just a shit in their hand and they ask you to sniff it and you say no It's you not understanding Just don't get it. If you got it you would really really appreciate it and admire it for what it is. You just don't understand it Not even a neg on charlie. He admits that he doesn't understand it He doesn't get it and he's not trying to so no wonder you're still engaged not trying to I just I find it funny that his equivalent of trying is looking up the meaning as according to the author That's what trying to understand it is Trying is accepting. I think that's so lame That's his recommendation for all art. Imagine like just you watch a movie or you read a book or whatever else You immediately go for Like anyone the author's breakdown of exactly what all of it means instead of just thinking about it yourself even briefly Like that's his recommendation for all that's how you he sees art as a Uh like like a thing to be completed Which is lame as fuck I am all for analysis of artworks that I love and hate and even feel neutral on Um, but I just don't like the idea that that's Like the companion piece that you must consume after the art in order to understand the art. I think that's bullshit Straight it You have to try a little bit in the comments of all these videos You see the same like mpc talking points stuff like if you have to explain They're the NPCs not like me. No still needs an explanation to make sense. It's called context You can appreciate what wait, what do you what? Sorry? What do you mean that you need an explanation to make sense of like What does he mean by that? Like mpc talking points stuff like if you have to explain why art is good plenty of classical art still needs an explanation To make sense. It's an example To make sense. What does he mean by that? I don't know what he means by make sense If we see like a painting of just a sailor in a storm or something He's like, yeah, but you don't know what the storm you don't know what the guy's trying to do You don't you can't make sense of this. I feel like I mean I can't I can make sense about using my own brain When there's just like a circle and a dot and then a stick and it's like well Yeah, I'm gonna need someone to tell me what the hell this is supposed to be Like and you know to make sense of it, but yeah guy in boat in storm water The argument that like oh, yes those dumb conservatives need to be told how to interpret art now He's arguing. We need to be told for all of lightly lightly admits that for all of art You need which you don't by the way. No, no, I like I said, I take issue fundamentally with the concept that Art is like to be experienced and then uh, you know understood by watching reading someone's analysis of it Mainly the author and then you like I have it's the blade runner shit with with chris southern I have the correct understanding now. It's like no Can you I would prefer you encourage your own interpretation before locking yourself into the author's interpretation And also I'd step up for a moment, but um one thing I'm wondering too Is it is it really worrying that he hasn't told us how to actually interpret the church art box thing? Because he said he didn't even look up what it really supposed to mean No, wait, I totally didn't engage with it. We have to look it up because I'm trying to look it up, but I gotta like find it I'm hoping he's gonna have a video to follow this video up to explain the art of this video as well because uh boxes Maybe called con I hope you can appreciate the aesthetics of art without context But you're not going to understand found it. Sorry night takes on an Wait, do we want to do we want to guess if you have the right answer? Do we want to guess maybe? So let's see, um, I found this is the Uh It's called Merlin Merlin Merlin no, wait Merlin carpenter by delmi or delmi by Merlin carpenter I don't actually know. I fucking hate that one. Like I can't tell if is this the song or the band. I have no idea, but um Yeah, I found a picture Here, but I don't Okay, um, I'll keep looking industrial Let's see a cute supply to um liking Let's see our our front Merlin out front Merlin carpenter has parked a brand new bright red Forklift and positioned its metal risers is that to hook onto the temple's arches and pull the structure right out of the ground The gesture is playful if not aggressive in its precision. No, this is different inside for archive elastic Carpenter has stacked neat columns of thousands of unmarked cardboard boxes of identical size large enough to accommodate an on-board Remoa or a bulk order of surgical masks Okay The exhibition was installed last fall only days before the country's second covid lockdown And as the french museums and cultural spaces were shuttered again This time for much longer than they had been the previous spring carpenter's boxes became Portraits in a way of the suddenly sealed inaccessible places and of the digitally enabled mass consumption So many turned to in the meantime, of course Of course an amazon warehouse comes to mind when navigating the narrow passages between carpenters brown boxes Oh, no charlie's interpretation was not only valid But one of the primary ones You didn't even look You didn't even look it up You just crossed your fingers and you hoped you lazy fuck. You hope oh charlie. Look at you media literacy god He was right. He accurately engaged with the art And you're you told him he was wrong and he did it without looking it up Oh my god, he did it better than you. He ought to be better than you It's a quadruple iron Unbelievable Molding Oh god, ethan all you had to do was look it up. I just I just googled stacked boxes art synagogue and it popped up Wow Even the thing was like, you know, obviously amazon would be evoked We know what you're looking for meanwhile this guy's like, you know, I even tried to engage with it So let's see. Um, remember that interpretation is only valid until once you've been told it If you came up with it on your own, it's not That's that's that's all i'm learning from this Uh, it says of course an amazon warehouse comes to mind when navigating the narrow passages between carpenter's brown boxes But so does a medieval labyrinth a devotional path The parcels are held shut by clear plastic tape each strip of equal measure and lay down just as carefully as daniel buren's stripes Which almost 25 years ago covered the synagogue's arches their outlines still decipherable under layers of house paint Carpenter is still talking about painting even when rendering it almost disdainfully invisible This is my lily and davies A great piece. Yeah incredible and it really is incredible Um, that's actually incredible that that's amazing Everyone remember this for the the e-fap to the e-fap 300 best moments Remember the years after a good start charlie won the war against a guy that no exists charlie, uh, yeah charlie beat eithan had engaging in art and on that note Uh, mr. Random film talk is going to have to Leave us slash. Oh go on to other places But before he goes Perhaps he can tell everybody what he gets up to in the world and why they should subscribe to his channel Yes, um, well, yeah, I mean firstly, thank you so much for having me on this video has been enlightening if not frustrating um Yeah, so the next video that i'm going to be making is the Fourth part of my hobbit series, which is going to round out the whole thing Parts one two and three are currently on the channel Um, it's going to be quite long, which I am told people around here are fans of things that are long Oh, yeah I don't know exactly how long but it's it's going to be a chonker Um after that, I genuinely don't know but that video is going to be up Uh, you would hope within the next couple of months um Yeah, and uh, if I've been told apparently that during this stream, I've hit 25 000 subs, which is Yay, which was a bit of a milestone because again, I wanted to hit that before tuesday because tuesday is one year from my first ring I was brings power video so not bad Yeah, I don't know how quick that actually is but it sure as shit feels quick to me I I have no frame of reference for this kind of thing though, but that was my goal And thank you you'll be at 100k no time and well no limits beyond that of course Yes, uh, the sky is the limit as they say Well, um appreciate hanging out with you, sir. It's been a good time. Thank you for joining us Yes, uh, it's been good fun chatting with you guys and um Yeah, I hope you're able to survive the rest of this video. I'm sure that we will We've been we're we're hardened veterans Yes Yes All right. Thank you guys. See you see you in a bit. Goodbye. Bye. See you Makes sense. It's called context You can appreciate the aesthetics of art without context, but you're not going to understand the piece without it Sorry knight takes on an entirely different you're not going to understand that again meaning isn't actually inherent in any work of art Meaning is something that we imbue onto the things we create we find or reuse So this idea of you cannot understand something Unless like like a piece of art Uh, unless you get like the context behind it I mean then like what's the point of any piece of art that we don't have the context for? Like is it inherently less valuable to us? Is it If we don't have The context of its creation then I mean, what's the point of the art? It really robs the experience of Fucking contemplating art, which is seriously like a big thing to do with all of this. Is it not? And also art can have no context and be way more interesting than art that has context in its Oh, it's a it's a some boxes in a broom like oh, yeah That that could still be shit But if I found like if I didn't have if we came across like a mone painting or a Leonardo da Vinci Whatever or a Raphael sculpture and we didn't know the context behind it I think I could I think I know which one I'd find far more interesting and And it worthwhile of my time even if I didn't have context behind it I've seen someone mentioning music and I feel like that really nails the point Someone can like a song just for the the tunes like they just like it And then they could also like it because of the lyrics and what the lyrics might mean to them Then they could also like it for what the lyrics mean to the author as opposed to what they meant to you Or you could like it for all of those things or you could like it because you listen to it while something great was happening in your life All of these are valid options All right, Bayou and has some art I'm gonna post you It's really something else. This is really something else. Oh, we got here. Oh, wow That's incredible This is so topical Look at the fire extinguisher. Yes. Yep. We got our fire extinguisher our Fringopolis Blongius birth of ragas and random thought And down to being a thousand a thousand a hundred dollar free. He's just trying to get rid of him, but this guy empathy. Oh empathy Two and a half million dollars This now this is art. Yeah, this will show those conservative I just I like the idea as well as like so the fire extinguisher is a part of it and the people who made it like I don't know We better leave it there just to be safe. I don't want to fucking destroy a million dollar project by accident. So, uh, let's just say maybe Some good shit. Thank you very much. That is Hopefully random talk sees it as well Well, I'll I'm in our group so we can at least be aware Anyway, yeah, uh, because you got the chin, right? beautiful That's quite a chin. Ah It's a good boulder though That's a very good boulder. Look the light from heaven is Shining down upon that magnificent boulder god approves of this boulder. It's just his creation However, the problem with this boulder As you all probably have already guessed is it doesn't look like I can walk under the boulder So but even then still clearly better than the rest Well, that if you could walk under it then it would be worthwhile like 10 million easily at least double double the price easily bare minimum Yep, levitation. Yeah Empathy Meaning when you realize that it was painted from an asylum And that was the view that van Gogh had through his window learning about art can be really that is awesome context to have But you can also appreciate it greatly without that context Yep, I mean that's definitely how art works But you're not going to understand the piece without it Sorry like all I get from this whole video is his desperation for you to be Tracked into a particular meaning from a thing Which is like the whole opposite of his point as I thought it was stated anyway It takes on an entirely different meaning when you realize that it was painted from an asylum That was the view that van Gogh had through his window learning about art can be really fun Maybe you care and it can learning about art can be fun when you care I don't know you've been incredibly dismissive of lots of incredibly Talented and amazing pieces of art The impression I got from charlie and from uh preggie you man is that they do Greatly care about art and they're frustrated with with it's gone in certain places Which I feel like almost everybody probably has a perspective. It's just in different formats and standards, right? I mean if you were to tell me who between Ethan this Ethan guy and the robert man which one of them cares more about art is like I'd answer robert in a heartbeat Well, what would happen if you were here right now? And he said you guys you hate a lot on star wars marvel. Have you even looked into how they were made? We'd be like We're judging the stories as told and it's like, yeah, but do you know what they went through to make those? Do you know what they meant by the stories they were giving? You're like, um Unfortunately every time we dig into any of them it gets much worse the quanta mania for example And it would stuck into the point where it's like do you mind like, you know What are you even trying to suggest that like no art is completed in terms of your perspective on it until You get every last morsel of exactly how it was made. It's insane. What if what if we have our I mean, it's probably not even hypothetical almost certainly exists our hypothetical painting For which there are no notes about it. We don't even know who made it And they died You know, we said like it's painted from his view from the asylum. It's like, what if you didn't know that? What if nobody knew that what now what if it was what if it was unknown as like this work would be incomplete forever How could you even know what it means for it to be complete and incomplete unless you knew the totality of the information that there is This is really about a piece of art. It actually breaks the whole thing The totality of the piece of art There's always going to be information that you could include that isn't typically included or that is lost to times You can't know. Yeah, what if yeah, exactly. What if it's bullshit? What if he never went to the asylum or the it was actually his brother that made it and he What if he said what if he personally told you me being in the asylum personally didn't influence it at all? It honestly didn't Yeah, so it's so annoying to listen to him say like that is the thing you've got to focus on and understand that That is the meaning right there. Whatever they tell you it's like fuck off Your appreciation for art in general art is a scam is the next video we're watching Starts out and charlie's watching this video with like 400. What the hell is that? Oh Are they just like some cold snuffballs on a wall? But then you look at charlie's expression like I'm just like I don't have the energy to conjure up. Yeah, I don't really have an expression for this I'm just full balls on a cliff It's it's certainly not my my Uh, uh, fringy lisa or mohner fringy expression here. I'm not I'm not very happy about this. I'm just you know Just I don't art gallery in portland and the first thing it shows are these acrylic half circles glued to the wall Charlie is just a little too excited about hating on this one and misses the point of it completely Which is a bummer because this installation is actually he's watching it now. We could see you the point Please tell us and it's here. Oh This is incredible I need to pay a visit to this Each disc is color coded and that color matches a frequency that the app the artist developed translates into a sound This isn't a visual exhibit. It's an audio exhibit. So, okay So that's the audio equivalent of the visual sludge where you're like, it'll make a sound It's like, okay. Wow. Are you okay? Most things are you okay with me saying that shit? Is that okay? Am I allowed to have that opinion or not? And then if you was like, no, you have to experience it first. You have to listen to I'd be like, okay fine fine fine fine And then it just goes This is what I'm saying like oh, oh, okay I want him to accept the fact that some people can just find this to be shit Please. Yep. So yeah when you're bullshitting and not paying attention does look like you're pointing your phone at a stupid orb But I don't know What what the fuck do orb look like he's never pondered his orb. He doesn't know what they look like He hasn't pondered or orb That's like the only time I've ever seen something like that. Is that not I don't care Okay, cool All right, well I've seen stuff like that before You know blotchy pixel circle. I've seen that. Yeah And then he makes fun of this big Oh, I think that I guess was that supposed to change my mind I don't know When I went ooo but that's just what it does. Yeah Then I'm like This is what I could do that from home My whole frustration with all of this is just why are you criticizing everyone for being so normal? This is the most normal reaction to all these things ever most of the people who love this stuff are all very engrossed in the culture of it shocking The video has fucking 400 views. What do you expect? This isn't devinky over here This artist's name is actually jordan rathas and she has done a few of these Wait, did he say devinky? It was a joke Exhibitions of the work most of it being art films not my thing But when I looked through her website, she did an art installation on a steamboat like an old steamboat. That's awesome I wish there were more pictures. Okay. Just that in and of itself. There you go. Okay All right. Is it just like unusual therefore good or it doesn't like you don't need any more content Key hyper values What's unique? Yeah, unconventional seems to be on its on its face like just valuable Pictures of it, but this is the only one listen I don't have to be completely impressed by something to give it credit for creativity and originality. Okay Don't have to be completely impressed to give it credit for creativity and originality. Yeah, I agree I don't think anybody disagrees. You can think of something original that something is original without it being impressive Mm-hmm think it clear that this isn't charlie's fault at all But holy shit if you go to the comments of this video, it's like nauseating Uh, yes, I intend to simply spit on a canvas and sell it truly what a wonder modern art is You can't say that's extreme when someone's shat in a can Yes, if anything, I would prefer the spit on a wall to the shit in the can Again, not a thing at all. Actually, what do you mean? That's not a thing. Okay. See, I feel like this is an honest video He might open with that's not a thing, but what if it were For you in your your world where if that were a thing and it was sold for a lot of money What is that? What do you what do you think? Is there a limit? You know, is this something someone can make that'll make you go wow that's shit Is it possible how come you can how come you can shit in a can and that's art But he's just like no one would spit on a wall. That's ridiculous. I don't know. Don't get it Stop being so ridiculous by saying spitting on a wall Humans we are the most intelligent species on earth Also humans the dude who makes the resin discs is punching the air after he figured out about qo Why are you reading like one like comments? Why aren't you reading like the ones that have hundreds of thousands because they're probably detailed We don't want to do that Completely misinterpreting the entire video not even paying attention in charlie stream goes to the video Leaves a comment on the original video without watching it. Still getting it wrong. You didn't pay attention. That's so embarrassing for you Again, it's not. Yeah, it's so embarrassing. Yeah, this is the worst thing that's gonna happen where We're the embarrassed ones. I feel so embarrassed right now I'm not the one who called birth of venus lame, but you know what that's you know That's on you the guy who made a shit the cat. He's probably feeling pretty good right now. Yeah The really big audience and they're very unfunny so charlie moves on Looking for a video defending boy. You haven't so much just made me crack a smile this whole time and you've clearly tried so I don't know. Well, I've smiled slash laugh when watching this video. None of it was from him, but You know, oh, yeah charlie. Yeah, he made me smile Yeah, that was fun jackson pollock and then gets mad at the title of the video Oh, I already hate the way this I already fucking hate the title How to understand a jackson pollock painting. I agree as if you're too fucking stupid to get it It's funny because it's true I don't understand it though. Is that not your problem? No, so I I saw hell and lucifer and they both sucked balls But like again intellectual honesty, so if I just just can I just make something anything at this point? It's what we're talking about earlier when I was responding to someone in chat Just take any movie and just be like this is about a thing That's just completely not what it's about and then if someone says like what I didn't get that at all Can I claim they didn't understand? Am I allowed to? What does it rely on, you know, what is in there? Yeah Proveably and when you say jackson pollock is like clearly this is hell dude I'd be like you're full of shit and you know it Clearly this is hell sure buddy Like you have to be able to concede that it's a bunch of stuff and splashes and clashing that could be interpreted in a billion ways Which I feel was proven with the 15 guesses as to what yellow islands was I don't I don't mean to say that that's like proof that it's meaningless or anything I just mean that it's it's perfectly reasonable for people to Quote-unquote misunderstand or rather There's nothing that's going to lead you to the correct interpretation as said by the author Now is there mr. Reads what the author's intent is and then claims that that's something that's very very interpretable if you simply understand Like that's just the height of being full of shit You can't look at jackson pollock's paintings and just be like it's obvious if you knew Yes, you don't I mean can't you tell as if these people would have any fucking clue if there wasn't a big Yeah, this would be this it's not what was supposed to be It's not some kind of admirable position to be like well. I was told the law Um, so I know it's like I get it. I think it's obvious It's like uh-huh get it the video is one if you had a is you had a jackson pollock like gallery You could just take all the little info cards and just switch them all Yes, you could and it wouldn't make a difference and I don't buy that this guy would ever have noticed that Like if you'd switch loose loose fur and hell would he really have known? Absolutely not As though I can't blame him for clowning on it making a painting which is about the substance of paint itself The fact that paint is liquid And when we see paint that's funny. That's very funny The painting is about painting itself about the liquid of paint you're like oh fuck I mean honestly why you can take it out of a can Normally Why that's so true. Why can't the paint can't achieve the exact same thing? Why tell me why even Why even take it out of the wrapper just don't even buy it Leave it at sure when williams and let someone paint their living room fucking kick it down a staircase. Have I not achieved the same thing? Just made to resemble something else whether it's the sky or a field or whether it's the sky a field or flesh What they're very commonly mistaken for each other Is that a what oh my god? Oh, no, it's just it's just the sky guys. I thought it was flesh But what pollock does is just presents us with paint as paint, but again, he just keeps focusing on Lucy Then who knows Selling the art that's not what this is about You know who you know what else presents paint as paint the fucking can that the paint Okay Has anyone done that Get it on the ground floor go go go like paint cans Like if I put paint cans on like a table at an art gallery, could I sell that the video keeps going and By the way, he said like he keeps focusing on the selling point Yes, because charlie has no issue with anyone making these things go nuts He has frustration that they would be at the top of the art world or sold for millions or hundreds of thousands It's obviously his criticism Frustration charlie keeps saying that it wouldn't be that hard to make a jackson pollock painting. I agree None of them have the energy The spontaneity and the sheer skill in handling paint that he has very skillful I don't know. I just feel like that's a lie Like just show me Yeah, show me how he does it and then I will concede if if somehow you show me something that I just couldn't even Can see if I'm like wow look at the look at the technique. He's using I couldn't do that like show me it Well, wait, we can we can look right I can go to youtube And I how when were these made? Jackson Pollock making I'll be generous and call it art um How to paint like jackson pollock 12 years ago from the museum Oh, wait a video Oh, oh, this is a this is a video of jackson pollock action painting. Oh, this is so exciting Do you want to do you want to find out together? Do you want to watch? Yeah, okay, sure. Uh, yeah, we want to take a detour and just just so that we've got context and we know um One second. I'll just make a note where we are 35 24 Oh Hold up. This may be copyrighted. So I'll mute it. Sorry. Yeah, you could you could mute your watch together if it's coming through there So it's up to you Okay, so So far pretty pretty good pretty good It's the way. Yeah, the way that he's smoking clearly hell the hell who's an egenic while he makes his paint Okay, that's yeah Wow, that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah the way that he dips and then splatters That way he's got a very strong back. I bet Oh, yeah You could just tell you could tell Oh that kind of skill Oh my gosh Wow, yeah, um the doobie in this matter. Yeah, I mean, what am I even meant to do with this? No, the closeness of the the brush to the canvas Yeah, yeah, yeah the technique. Now notice how he holds the canyon. It's the freneticity. Okay. That's right Yeah, that the kineticism the uh, the the sponsor variety Oh, and look he littered Wow You know, you should let it just land on the painting and you can become a part of it Well, no some of the smoke particles, you know, they imbued in the pain and nobody's done it like him. Nobody ever didn't like that Look at that. Yeah Yeah, I know and it's reserved yet the paint speaks for itself You know, but yeah, he gives voice to the paint. He gives voice to it. Yes Feel bad. This isn't this isn't Pollock's fault. He was just doing whatever the fuck he wanted This is everybody else's fault Wow Oh, man, this is so inspiring Look at him Robert Robert doesn't have shit on this guy To try and be nice. Look do whatever the hell you want. Like I said, but like this you can't convince me This is something that like only he could do or that was a highly skilled thing that he's doing Like I I just don't believe it Maybe there's a lot of stock to put in the fact that he was the first person to really do it like that, you know Yeah, the audacity you have to appreciate Yeah, yeah, I suppose Oh, wow, this this is a minimalist piece you could tell by the fact there's not much Here it's the beginning of the piece. Yes. This is just the beginning. You could tell this is the base layer You could tell by the lines Yeah Yeah, sorry, this is not convinced me of anything. In fact, I think it's further solidified my position that anyone could do what he does No, he's creating volume in the spaces with the paint. You could see yeah there at the bottom And then he then he has the balls to sign it Whatever, I don't mind that far. I don't this is a thing. I have no issue with him doing this at all I have issue with the guys being like this is something that only Pollock could do This is Pollock's talent coming. He's like, okay It's me Skulls of all the great masters looking at him going. What the f*** am I doing? Yeah, uh, that did not make me think That uh, anyone else couldn't do it. I believe How about Jackson Pollock's most expensive painting is worth 200 million dollars I'd rather not know that I'd rather not know that you didn't have to tell us that and now we know Well, now you know Oh very skillful Does he see how much paint is on this? That doesn't mean skill. There's so much. Wow. There's so much There's so much paint. There's so much paint on a canvas means skill. It's more skillful to put more paint on Dammit, it's it's covered and it's really big like especially you even sound desperate to explain it You don't know how to explain why it's skilled. So you went with big and lots What's a man? Ethan is so stupid. He thinks that's a counter to what charlie said Don't you see how much paint there is as if the skill is literally in just placing Volumes of paint. That's it. Like I said an infant could knock over a can of paint kick it down the f***ing staircase It'll splatter everywhere. It's so skillful. It's it's so skillful. It's indistinguishable from accidental Especially if it's on the ground he had to walk around Whoa, wow. He had to allow gravity to let the object fall He had to walk around it. Wow. He had to can you imagine being so skillful? This is indistinguishable from parody by the way This could be a montipython sketch. I could believe it. Yeah, this is like a tim and eric thing. You'd see at 3 a.m He had to walk around it. He used lots of paint You know a lot of people don't really rely on those two aspects when talking about some of the most talented painters in the world Usually say holy f***. Look at the incredible painting they made He had to walk around and on it. He could swing his whole arm out and still be painting on his canvas. That's So, so it's just because it's why why why are you doing this? Why? This is what I mean Paul Jackson Pollock who's probably just having the time of his life splatter and some s*** and then he sees this guy being like What he's doing is unrepeatable It's like uh Unlike any other artist listen, maybe it's just me but knowing this like mentally So manic alcoholic freak was sitting in like a barn drunk Blinging paint everywhere in anger gives a certain emotion to these paintings that I think is very valuable So that doesn't count to what charlie said at all. I don't even think it's charlie's not said it doesn't contain emotion If it's valuable to you, that's chill. That's fine. Nobody's ever taken issue with that He's talking about skill and you've said no this takes a lot of skill and what you cited is not skill Also, it's a lot of pain though. This is the part that is like the anger and hatred. Oh, how do you know? You don't know yet. How do you know that's not a how do you know? That's not yellow islands. How do you know that this isn't like a oh, it's a life I don't know. It's not heaven. How do you know? It's not him saying this was me on my vacation A brief time away from my family who hate me. This is what I love this is grilled zucchini. I sure do like it This is pasta Oh, yum How do you know because he told you? Because you looked at the law Can I find can I put let me do this like red jackson paul good luck You're gonna try and find this one and see the name So let's see, um Yeah, of course All you have to do is you just have to look for the yellowy whitey ones And then this the yellow whitey ones with some of the black in it And then once you find those it's it's basically if you do find it Being free you should do a quick back and forth guessing the name. Um, well, actually I think I've already got it I've already found it actually. Have you got have you got a name? Okay, um I do have a name Okay, is it one word or two words? Uh It's five words. Oh, what? Oh, I know. Yeah, I'm never gonna be able to guess that Yeah, I'll I'll give you a hint. It was made in 19 You cut out after 19 It's it was made in 1950 That makes this so much easier. Yeah, that's that's your hint. It's an oil painting I'll give you a it's at the Tehran Museum of Contemporary Art in Tehran. Um The grand pizza of death No, I'm out of ideas Flames it's five words Oh Flames flames flames flames flames of flame land No, but that's closer than mollar. Oh, hmm the grand pizza of islands No, we're further away now. Damn it I dude, I nah, what is it? I also give up This one is called mural on indian red ground Oh Which is the best one yet because it has red in it. Yeah, there's a base of red The title the the title has the word red in it and the paint has the color red amongst it So that's actually like the best one yet. Not bad It lives only in this man. Oh my god. The painting really tells you everything you need to know about the man behind it Oh, I never stopped to really think about the gestures required for such precision Like it looks chaotic to the untrained layman's eye The the philistines, but when you really take a step back You can see The laborious nature of each and every Splatter, okay, so now charlie is like completely The narrative of the video and is now implying narrative of the thing How is what charlie said any less ridiculous than what the video said what this guy said Fucking throughout the whole video. Let's be honest Pollock meticulously planned every stroke and oh, he's memeing dude We already know he splatted it at random. That's the joke. Yes, we know Jackson joxson pollocks that he is the meme He's the splatter man If someone ever describes anything that I make As being akin to jackson pollock. It's an insult and no one says that to be like no one's like Oh, it's just like a a jackson pollock painting No one says that as a like a term of like as a as praise In every little dip and drop the entire purpose of jackson pollock is to not do that charlie gets mad again Because someone is describing pollock's painting style by painting with gestures rather than brush strokes, you know using his whole arm As opposed to someone who paints using their body as well, but actually paint something it is still But actually paint something do they not do they not think that like all of the great masters Involve their bodies. Yeah Don't like use their bodies and their entire arm to hold the brush or how they might steady it up close to them Or the techniques of the brush did how come you get to just be like, oh, yeah, he just slung it everywhere It's like his whole arm. It's like a baseball player Them as a person creating that art they make this weird distinction. They look for any and all fucking At absolutely asinine Explanations for why anyone should care even though charlie's right. So I good god. I totally agree with him. I guess 100% Yeah, yeah, really mad at his desperation the distinction that characterizes his entire body of work. That is why it looks like this It looks like shit What yeah, what is he saying? I don't understand like the reason why it looks like that is because he moves his whole arm Okay, a lot of artists do that. That's great Yeah, like I don't know. It's really strange. You know what? Super unique that he moves his arm if his brother jeremy pollock didn't move his arm Only have afflicted his wrist and that was the restriction and created art. That wouldn't be any less valuable, right? Of course alternatively if somebody else now moved their whole arm that wouldn't mean shit Because jackson pollock was the one who did it first pretty much I somehow Put multiple fingers up my ass sniffing them to get the the fumes up there to really like delusion myself Like hugely enough to find any kind of meaning in this. There's no way that's a painting Oh, wait, that's a painting. He's looking at him. I didn't know I legitimately didn't know I thought there's like some graphic or something or I I I legitimately didn't even consider That's a painting this this has been a roller coaster Reward in it for me. I don't get anything for it I don't know why he says that there's no reward for finding meaning in art The meaning is we often find rewarded meaning Yes, the meaning is but that's what he's saying the meaning is the reward But but yeah, I don't think anything was disagreeable what charlie just said the reward It can change your perspective make you feel seen help you understand other people You just have to be open to it. I've yet to hear a Um, so does it is it always said there was never a time where there's a lack of meaning ever It's not even necessarily valuable It just it just feels to me Like we actually are demeaning a fine meaning because It's everywhere all the time and it doesn't matter where it comes from just just embraced meeting Cibletadiously kinkades work sucks How boring his santa and snow images soulless No flavor Single argument other than non sequiturs and emotional language why it's not worthwhile to engage with modern It's so fucking baffling to me He puts up such a hard defense for a fucking blank canvas, but that he went so hardcore on the the snowy cabins Yeah, those are shit and venus sucks But the man this blank canvas is so amazing. Like what's your end game here? Like what's up? He said that venus was a masterpiece, but you know, it's dull and the composition's not it's a bit busy. Come on. It's a bit busy Yeah crowded crowded There's literally nothing at the end of that tunnel The only reward is to the artist that put no effort into it and sold it for a lot of money To people that have been brainwashed that to make them believe that it's worth that price Just try to think that the people who are attending museums are buying the art again We're at this some of them maybe um times. Yes, actually. Yes, unironically. Whoever buys it is the people he's talking about It's weird part where we're mad that paintings cost a lot of money The only person you know, he's mad that such little work in effort could be sold for such great amounts of money Yeah, it's these ones that suck and he's correct Another basic human frustration when you feel a lot of reward goes to a place that doesn't deserve it It's just a normal human thing. He's worry about that is the bozo buying it Just really isn't about the money. It's just not and also let's I think it's exclusively about the money if people were making random images of shit that he didn't Didn't go anywhere. They're in their own house stuff He wouldn't mind It's the fact that they sell for so much money and they consider great works of art Those are the two big factors be serious for a second modern And by the way, you've defended the shit out of Pollux like greatness as an artist So you can't say that's not happening art has money laundering happening in it Sure But classical art is where the money's the most expensive painting in the world Sat on a Saudi yacht for two years Yeah, this little t-girl Jesus is the most expensive painting in the world from Leonardo DaVinci It's not even you know what the second most expensive painting is though. It's like another it's it's uh, it's an expressionist like abstract painting I don't even know why is he bringing this up? It does not. Yeah, I mean It seems when they're talking about the thing of money He's like saying oh you think that these are too expensive or some of these ones that are too expensive The most expensive painting in the world from Leonardo DaVinci. It's not even finished hair does not look like that classical What are you doing? Wait? What are we trying? Do you think that tearing down DaVinci? It's not in any way What are you doing? Wait, I thought wait. I thought the point was it's not supposed to be photo realistic and portray reality as it is So I think the generous interpretation is that he's parodying those people But he showed us a clip of Prager you man saying it's not about being realism Not about being realistic. He showed us that clip. Why do you keep saying this as parody and making fun of them? When that's not what their positions are Why do you keep doing this to me? I don't even know why he's brought this up because it's like charlie's point is fundamentally that he thinks it's bullshit That these are paintings are worth so much and he's like well Yeah, but also, you know money laundering and also some paintings that are expensive aren't like Abstract or postmodernist or which is nothing. He just doesn't address the points at all. It doesn't mean anything School paintings go for way more money are owned by way worse people if they're not already stolen from the country They again Jackson Pollock like it's called number 17 a it's like the fifth most expensive painting ever Like there you go. I don't know why he's saying this I guess maybe on average but He's like you should be mad at other things Already stolen from the country. They belong to I don't think anyone's mad that Jackson Pollock trickled little driblings of paint across a canvas or someone submitted a canvas they bought from michael's as art Submitted the one they bought just like didn't add anything to it They're mad about the price that it sells for and the people that defended it's never there it is This is exactly what I Was never about the fact that people do it. That's fine. You can do whatever you want really the piece itself so I guess charlie's biggest problems with modern art are The price it's sold for and the people who defend it Even though he said in the last video that no one defends modern art art like modern art is one of the most bafflingly Outrageous things to me And the thing is I never see anyone defend it. I literally never see anybody online defend it That isn't also laundering money with art themselves. Like it blows my fucking mind So there you go. He's he's included the people who Uh defended as those who are interested in the money aspect And then his primary concern is the fact that they sell for so much It seems consistent. I don't I don't see any contradictions. Yeah, the people whatever art people I think he's trying to solidify the point as nobody really likes modern art This is all bullshit something's going on like that seems to be his position though I'm sure he'd say it's hyperbolic that there are a lot of people It's just that he doesn't meet many people who say they like modern art, which by the way I agree. I don't meet many people who say they like modern art It wouldn't refer specifically to those types, you know Probably a lot of people who who would like employ occum's razor to think like no, no This is some scam people don't actually like it's that reason. No, no way I think most the most common reaction you get showing someone with Jackson Pollock pain and be like, huh And you're like, do you like it? It's like you know And then you tell them to and then you tell them it's worth 16 million dollars and then they probably start to not like it Yeah, and then they're like, wait, what? How but but how come my super talented friend on the internet who is an incredibly capable artist with How come they are struggling to make a living? He's like, well, yeah, it's this thing man, you know But I don't think he knows anyone in real life who likes modern art I don't think he knows any gay people and again Well Was there was there a crossover between people who like modern art and gay people I missed that Do you have to be gay? Laundering money with art themselves like it blows my fucking mind the people whatever our people are freaks But I don't think he knows anyone in real life who likes modern art. I don't think he knows any gay I don't think I do I can like it on occasion. Some of it is like appealing in a sort of Way, I guess but I'm surprised you focused on that instead of the gay people comment, but okay No, wait, wait, what I was thinking to say what what gay people comment. I might roll it again clearly wondering what more time Make sure you go back enough because chat of freaking out as well blows my fucking mind the people whatever our people are freaks But I don't think he knows anyone in real life who likes modern art. I don't think he knows any gay people and again the price Gay people like modern art. You see the way he said that was that he probably doesn't know any gay people because he doesn't Know anybody who likes modern art Gay people is that a thing that gay people like modern art? Is that a thing? Gay people like modern art What it yeah, I I don't know if that's a joke or something. I don't if it's a joke I mean the the law factor comes from it being sincere because like I just Like like the fact that he's like you probably don't know any gay Because you don't know anyone who likes Only gay people like modern art. You're like straight people are too into it, you know Bit homophobic of you to say that but I don't know why you insult gay people by saying they like modern art What's for is irrelevant doesn't reflect on the art at all. It's not a dictation of quality and the only people pay Um, that's true, but it can still frustrate anybody that something like transformers or whatever else makes shit tons of money That's totally normal. Yeah Hang for it or rich freaks with more money than they need I would much rather have the money go to a museum where they actually spend it on public education Some non-profit museums do college grants. It's not really a bad thing when art is sold generally That's a way to put it. It's not really a bad thing when art is sold. All right And he also said that it's just money laundering I feel like In the specific case of money laundering it is bad when I saw Is that charlie never actually brings up an example of art that sells for too much He just keeps making up examples like we looked at diana earlier Which was a potted plant that was store bought and put on a shelf and that was the art I'm not mad about that. I think that's fucking great. I think that's a wonderful joke But if I heard that sold for 100 grand if If I heard that sold If he said he's making it up If yeah, he actually signaled that he was making it up That would be upsetting to me. Okay 100k actually If it's such a horrible problem that is so frustrating that you start the video mad about it. Why are there no examples? I think there are plenty of examples if you actually go to just like the top You just did it again like I said you look at the top five most expensive paintings jackson pollock One of his is number five and it was sold for 200 million dollars like 2015 And you don't have to go far for another jackson pollock one that sold for two 100 sorry 140 million because once you adjust for inflation then it starts to get a bit crazier um Yeah, like They're expensive. They cost a lot of money. I mean to bear in mind like 200 million dollars You can make a movie a big expensive movie for that much money. Mm-hmm Charlie has been misinformed about modern art. He said jackson pollock a bunch But not exactly a fair example using one of the most well-known artists in america That doesn't change anything that I don't even know why you would say that like all he needs to show Is that art that he thinks his shit is selling for a lot of money you saying yeah, but he's famous If anything just proves the point No, shit. He's gonna sell for a lot. He's not even making the money. He's dead I don't think I don't even know what like why are you just not addressing his points ever If there's anything anyone could ever say or any explanation for any of this that would ever actually change my mind on the interpretation of empty canvas work and splatter paintings It is all Trash if nothing changes charlie's mind. That's fine. I didn't make this video for charlie and I doubt he'll see it I mean there's not much in this video is going to change his mind. You've not really done anything to do so. No It would be the real when you try to tell us about the artistic integrity of like pollock's work You said he uses lots of paint and he moves around and then he moves his arm and walks around the canvas Oh, they said that that that was just insane in terms of like you you kept that in the video too That's uh, that's what that's uh, that's a nice halo reach is what that is Learn for yourself art is subjective not in a I think this is good And I think this is bad way But in a way that's unique to everyone your appreciation in your taste in art is reflective of your subjective experience Your identity your personality these are all factors in observing art and I think Right and his and all of that has fed into him thinking that this is bullshit Yeah, I was gonna say none of this contradicts anybody yet More important experience and think for yourself rather than letting you don't do that You explicitly told us you have to get explanations. That's right. You need the explanations I don't even like it's actually It couldn't be that charlie came to this conclusion On his own or hell, you know, maybe some of the propaganda reached him But he also had other propaganda reach him and just other earnest perspectives reach him and then he came to this conclusion Um, yeah, just you know psa. Don't be like this guy. Don't decide that art is worthwhile or not based on its law You can you can decide it for yourself and you can incorporate that if you are interested on its own. Yep, you can exactly Think narratives you like charlie Look at the art and think about what you think about let's dictate what you think I'm gonna end this video by telling you remember he he didn't even connect charlie with prairie. You he just said that was the case All right, what did he say? Sorry? I had to Well, we're at the conclusion of the video and we're just pointing out like how remember that the intro was like He connected charlie with prairie you but there was nothing there was a useful idiot, right? He was a useful uh fool or something useful idea But there's nothing to connect them whatsoever other than charlie thought jackson pollock paintings were shit and prairie You I guess made fun of similar stuff but like there's But I mean jackson pollock paintings. I think if you showed most people they wouldn't be that impressed by that pretty You can find people who dislike pollock from all walks of life Yeah, I can imagine some right wing or centrist because it's not actually like some big political statement You know these canvases of art they you could try and say it's inherently blue You just say that but the moment you give it this the little tiny iota of thought it doesn't really mean anything You about one of my favorite art pieces. It's just a fan and a little for fuck's sake Trick bar here we go into the wall in the museum like any other covered in plexiglass Blowing through just a few holes at the view at first glance a few it's just a fan in a room But the description reads but the law Ah So now like at this point I have completely disconnected from the fan And I'm just focused on the little story and that's going to be like probably is it going to be like completely We should do that right listen to his explanation Brush the fan from memory and just listen to the explanation. Do you need the fan at that point? Let's let's think about it. I was already there. I'm already there. Get ready for the mold up everybody soon after Museum like any other covered in plexiglass Blowing through just a few holes at the view at first glance It's just a fan in a room But the description reads soon after the death of his lover Steven Arabino from AIDS Los Angeles conceptual artist Boskovich discovered that Arabino's family had completely cleared out his apartment Including the artist's possessions saved for the electric box fan in this work an entire person Existence and relationship had been erased like so many were during the AIDS crisis Boskovich encased the fan in plexiglass as a kind of evidence and created cutouts to allow its circulated air to escape And be felt by the viewer almost like an exhalation In a sense restoring Arabino's breath at least as a facemill in memoriam. Boskovich makes a tender broken hearted gesture Wait in facemill facsimile I think he means facsimile interrupts the story. Yeah, that looks okay. All right towards some form of eternal life Oh, that's it All right. All right Yeah, okay, but if you didn't have the plaque there, how could you have ever possibly ascertain that? I feel like it's worth saying straight away. Um, that's a better short story than that is as a piece of artwork Yeah, I think that's a great story. Um, that's that's a really that's a great story. But like I mean, how could I possibly like why do we need a fan for that almost? How could I possibly glean that just from looking at it for what it was? Yeah, what if someone just didn't have that story? Maybe the plaque fell over or it got delivered to the wrong room or whatever and And someone just looked at it and they came up with their own meaning about an enclosed fan and Like what it's supposed to mean or whatever Yeah, I just I mean like, I don't know I just like it feels like we're we're attaching so little value to being able to look at the piece as it is on its own in a vacuum Even even acknowledging that getting the additional context or explanations from either the creator or you know Like just anybody else can be valuable. Absolutely can be but like why are we putting so little stock? In being able to extract value from it for what it is on its own Because sometimes you'll have to sometimes there won't be an explanation or like any additional context Sometimes a creator won't explain what they were intending. Sometimes a creator dies before they could explain it and is unfinished I feel like it's probably a really healthy thing to kind of like give the thing itself a lot of you know, um I get I don't know. Maybe not necessarily reverence, but like, um Like that you don't don't lose the the art piece itself, you know behind of the story or let the story do all the heavy lifting and That kind of thing It feels like we're barely appreciating the work for its own sake Which feels like an important part at least to me of like absorbing something that's been created as like What is it? You know without any explanation from the creator without any of the explanations that you're going to be getting from people who You know already come to their own conclusions based on like what can you draw from it? You personally it was like it's interesting because he's trying to put a lot of more stock in the idea of like your subjective experience of you know consuming art which like I mean, yeah, but But at the same time like your process emphasizes heavily like finding out Basically where you're meant to focus your attention how to think about it what to think about it rather than developing it on your own Because without that story, I couldn't have how could I possibly create it and guess that? Yeah, no even close to that Meanwhile Behind it Meanwhile to once again make the point with this lad I think there's lots that we could discuss As to what it means with what it's doing, especially when in motion, right? um Then if you were curious enough and you were like, what uh, what do some people think about this? Uh thing and read about it says, uh, the piece is called can't help myself and uh For example, um, it goes without saying that there are plenty of theories about what can't help myself is actually about in the comment section Continuously cleaning up pieces of yourself as you endlessly fall apart writes one user Inting at an underlying commentary on mental health Alone while everyone watches you and uses you for entertainment. No piece of art has ever emotionally affected me this way Uh, as much as this robot arm has reads another interpretation It's programmed to try and contain the hydraulic fluid that's constantly leaking out and required to keep itself running If too much escapes it'll die So it's desperately trying to put itself back together to continue to fight for another day It's like super It was already fascinating and then you get to read these interpretations and think about what it is And he's just like, oh this this is what I love about art. This is great And the thing I feel like, you know, because if I presented one you could just make this is like almost an observation about the nature of like Existence and kind of like persisting to retain a sense of self, you know as you like gradually decay away over time Like that it's ultimately like futile pointless fruitless and eventually you're gonna run out of energy Like I feel like that's a reasonable interpretation I could pull from it that in some way kind of differs from the one that was presented there But I feel like I can actually draw that from this From this like piece of art essentially I don't need to be Yeah, and yeah for the records there's there's loads of examples that I think are great and that I love But there's also loads of examples that are absolutely horseshit And it's just like what the hell is this and we need a way to be able to distinguish them And that's probably the main question I would have for uh, Ethan is have you ever come across a piece of art that you felt was just bullshit? Yeah, has there ever been one where you thought I don't know that one buddy. Do you always wait until you get an explanation of how it was made before you make that call? I don't know it's It's weird that that the additional context behind A work as it is whether it's a painting and I guess I presume we would extrapolate this from him to like Films books and everything that it's like it is it is incomplete without this information rather than this being additional information Perspective and commentary that it's that you know can whether you agree with it or not can influence your uh your opinion on it Yeah, like exactly like the Mona Fringy You know, yeah, I just thought we put some excellent artwork up, you know I mean, I don't like it So there you go You guys know night hawks. You familiar with that painting? Uh, maybe I'm not sure Hmm Because I really like night hawks And I've been curious if you know, no, it's too powerful Too big Yeah No Oh, this screenshot or no Yeah Goddamn it hold on All right. Well, I was gonna say anyway that uh It's quite an intro to the next the sixth year of evap, I guess Yeah, that was something else. That was really uh starting strong. We've already got some good memes from that one. We uh Yeah, but that was pretty painful. I'm not gonna lie um I that really I think is in all the years of evap that we've done There is this element of if you're talking about x you should sort of like I expect you to be An expert or to be learned about it or to be in some way You know able to speak on the thing more than a layman, but that was like worse than average um Oh, yeah, I've seen that Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, that's really famous when it's parodied endlessly. Yeah, simpson's even parodied it But I guess the thing would be like there's plenty of different interpretations of night hawks that you can find But I feel like this is this would be you could you can look at that and like make something of it without This is But someone explains to you what this painting is it's infinitely frustrating to me And there's a story that's present here that you can glean without being told what you're meant to think about it Well, that's the thing imagine like seeing this and being like I'm not I'm not I haven't I haven't consumed the art yet And it's like what do you mean like well now I need to look at Tell me what I'm meant to think about it And I didn't consider night hawks within the context of all of hopper's other works Like it's essential. I need all of that information. Otherwise like I'm not you know, I am lost I can't make sense of it um, also, uh So the sands if you want to add me on the old discord we can get you in for an episode if you want apparently He's got some context to add for the uh the video coverage. You can please do get time to Wrap it. I imagine then we can bring you on for um, whatever it is you have a speciality in maybe art maybe Movies of some kind TV shows games who knows but we can uh, we can sort it out because obviously we'll be heading off at this point Yeah, we've done our damage What a video seven Nearly seven hours. Yeah, look at that. Yeah Oh We did it. We talked we we solved art. We figured it out Yeah, we know that we no thanks from this ethan fellow. He was um profoundly uninformed bizarrely opinionated uh tribalistic Nothing about that struck me as intelligent or insightful So maybe next time just uh, maybe next time just to like not to make a video Isn't it boring how much politics infects videos? I mean that one felt like he couldn't even remotely, but then again a full-length pull a damn man That sucks for you like, you know, sorry. You're so infected by it. It's a virus What's the political memes of of monofringy, you know What? Well until we talk to the artist we can't possibly know or appreciate and we wouldn't want to get it wrong So don't even think about don't even think about having an interpretation You can't get it wrong even though it's all based on your like subjective experience of it. You can get it wrong You kept trying to like go for like not even trying Yeah Also final That's right. Yep. Look at that. What a segue. Remember limited time This is actually the last time We'll be probably live on efat because by the time we stream next it'll be over Remember earlier Robert was saying You need to buy the good art. You need to encourage that sort of thing go go and buy the good stuff Let me tell you this is the good stuff right here And there's only what four and a half more days You got four and a half days and then that's it then they're gone forever That's it. They're gone like jackson pollock paintings. There's no more Stream if you were thinking about it and you were sort of holding off and you were waiting and you were pondering it You know, you still got time but you are out of time. So you are running. Yeah, like don't procrastinate. You'll forget That's right. And then you'll be really sad and remember get all three of them together because you get a big old discount And they do they belong together You know, yeah, we do belong together as if the last seven hours wasn't proof You know, we've got all three of them together. They they form their own Grander broader, you know artistic Metatron they make a statement together. Yeah Good stuff buy them please they help us out a lot Appreciate seeing them out there and uh, you will be sad if you don't get them It's true. It's scientifically verifying. I mean, I mean, oh, yeah, I yeah, I think they look really great I'm really great. You do look really excellent makes it really hit it out of the park once again with the movies So yeah, patronize the good link in the description go go take a look If you were thinking about grabbing them now now it's now or never basically it is now or never. That's true And we'll say uh, we go uh, it'll be a meme fap next uh So the following saturday and the sat after that, uh Well, there's like three different episodes of three different guests. I'm trying to set up so If that will be good for a while the tips of uh, crazy events and from what I understand, you know We're running low on new releases for movies. So we'll just have to check out some videos. I guess Yeah, so never a shortage of people who uh, have opinions. Yeah, who have opinions Like Ethan here. He had a lot of opinions a lot of opinions on art Some of them not as crazy as others. We'll say that. Yeah, that's a nice way to put Yeah, um, and of course, uh recordings still continue on them super chats But uh, we've we finished up the anniversary ones that'll be out Wednesday And then uh, we're just getting chugging away on all the episodes getting them all done obviously like said Oh, yeah, sorry. It sounded like you had more. I was just gonna add something else Uh, like I said, the vinyls have four and a bit days left So links in description links easily findable makeshift vinyl figure. It's all there about to run out and then um Yeah, like this this Good ol efap ev episodes on the way for a soca as well. I know you guys um Are unhappy at the idea that episode four is out and episode one just came out But as you probably noticed the editing is top notch. So it takes time Yeah, it's uh, but episode two would quicker. It's it's very nearly done It'll be out soon and then obviously straight on to episode three Episode three Thankfully, but uh episode four was a bit of a chonga. So uh, It's a bigger episode a lot of discussion So, you know, yeah on their way and I hope you enjoy them and apparently five is gonna have big happenings in it So Of course it is Dude this show man. It's so bad Like and by the way guys when it comes to like trying to actually edit these episodes It is unbelievable. Like how many big pauses there are between every sentence that you can just like drop them out And then of course to illustrate how long those pauses are is It's so long remember the part when uh Like asoka was talking to our whatsa name as they were traveling through that uh that that facility where they were building the ships And it's like, you know Sabine's not ready to be a jedi and then there's a big pause. I'm curious Big pause. How do you know when someone's ready big pause? You just know and then about 20 seconds of pause for the rest of the scene as it lingers out and then we cut to the next scene Oh, just wonderful. I love it. I love all of that's good writing. That's really good writing Yeah, it's building it's building character. You know, it's just building It's so is It is, you know when the characters are just walking towards each other for like a minute holding their lightsabers out It's really it's really brilliant and inspired You don't want to overdo it. You don't want to get a coolness overdose. You got to pay some out I wish to have it on record the since the release of quantum mania I've been trying to sort out the halloween arc for this year It has been a fucking nightmare absolute crazy nightmare the copyright protection on this series of films has been insane You'll be finding out what it is probably in like 10 15 15 days I think we'll put out a trailer for what it is kind of like last time with the We did one for final destination resident evil, but there'll be a new franchise this year There will be 10 films in total for this franchise And Whoever the fuck Organizes this franchise in whatever particular way of a copyright on youtube Kicked my ass hardcore to the point where it was picking up like four seconds It was insane And uh, I have had to do some this is like a warning ahead of time You won't see the first one until the end of probably end of september But that uh, the copyright protection is insane in these videos. You've never seen it this bad and just trust me It's what had to be okay. Like it'll be annoying You'll rarely be able to see a lot of what's even happening in the films But hopefully the most important parts are shown you can still kind of make it out with the cover but my God Sometimes it would be like all covered and then the the copyright thing will be like oh this selection of 10 minutes It's just like how could you possibly have clipped all of that most of that isn't even the film It's just like yeah, well, fuck you. It's like, okay You have to go Heavy and crazy on it a lot of speculation here. I'm seeing some scary movies saw halloween Long war Could be any of them as as per usual you'll get your uh your trailer and it'll confirm it And uh, well, hopefully you guys enjoy this one has been worked on by several editors And uh, well, we're looking forward for you to see it. Halloween is set to be a lot of fun this year. I think Hooray also, thank you very much a lot of people bought the figures already Absolutely Thanks guys seriously like we we have fun and everything but they really do help us out a lot They're a they're a huge help to us and we love we love supporting makeshift because they do incredible work with these It's a huge props to those guys And again, like it really does help us out a lot. Um And boy, do you get something for your money? He's a great. I've got all mine up here On my little loft ledge and boy, look great. Just a big lineup of all my uh all my friends and It looks great. Hold on to my plushies. Just Around in the office. That's what I got was my I got my rim world thrumbo and All the boys great. Yeah, get them help them out. Yeah, seriously. Thank you. Yeah, the support is super duper purchase Yeah, it's uh, it's really cool that you guys like these so much And well, I suppose uh, what is there anything else you guys wanted to talk about before we head out? No, just um It I I seem to always be well not always We have um It makes videos like this really appreciate the way that we engage in art and sort of I guess challenge the way that we perceive it The questions we ask ourselves in each other how we Just how we discuss the entirety of the topic because so many people seem to have these bizarre Um, like they have this at the same time. It's overly broad and tunnel vision at the same time There's no consistency with the way that they view the topic and I mean, I think we do a really good job sort of, you know, given these things good discussions because boy Ethan is uh Well, what a mess. What a mess So hopefully he gets his shit together and uh, you know, you know, good luck to him. He's got a lot to learn He's got plenty of great videos to come Absolutely I'm sure he's got this was just the bad one the rest are total bangers. Yeah, I'm sure they're all great I would never watch them, but you know, no, I would never watch them No, sometimes the law was so low that you But maybe I'll check out solar sands. He's got some jocks and Pollock stuff and some art discussions So then he was referenced in the video. So who knows? Perhaps we shall see him here in the future Who knows but yeah, but now totally pip cheerio. Have a good night everybody Bye everyone. We'll see you later. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye Toodaloo