 The first item of business this afternoon is portfolio questions and the portfolio on this occasion is education and skills. Anybody who has asked a supplementary question should press the request-to-speak-butons during the relevant question. I call solution number one, Clare Baker. To ask the Scottish Government when it last met cosLa to discuss pay awards in schools. Cabinet Secretary. I'm advised that the Minister for a local government empowerment and planning met cosLa ond 24 Holyutor. Maen nhw'r goithsgwrdd y ddinllewid yw mewn og yn ymddangos y gwerth yn y ddisbu ar fy ngysylltu hwn i. It's important that I reaffirm that the workers involved in this dispute are local government employees, not teachers, so this is not a specific education dispute and I'm not directly involved in the negotiations. Negotiations on local government pay are rightly between COSLA and the representatives of the employer, local government and the trade unions representing the workforce. Nevertheless, I have an agreement with COSLA that we work together to ensure that any disruption to learning is avoided as far as possible in the event of further industrial action. I'll be meeting coesla ahead of further planned industrial action next week, similarly I met with coesla prior to the last action. Clare Baker. I thank the cabinet secretary for that response. She will know that while GMB and Unite have voted in favour of the offer from coesla, Unison staff overwhelmingly voted to reject and members are beginning a rolling programme of strikes in regions including in Fife. Even the unions who accepted the offer have stated that the negotiating process fuelled uncertainty and mistrust and the revised offer should have been put on the table months ago. I do hear what the cabinet secretary said about her involvement in the discussions with coesla. I would like an update on what the government is doing to try and resolve the current dispute but something that is purely within her remit as workforce planning and can she give also an update on what work the government are taking forward to ensure there is proper workforce planning in schools. I thank the cabinet secretary for her question and I do as she has outlined to welcome the news that GMB and Unite members have voted to accept the deal and negotiations remain on-going in relation to the wider challenges with Unison. I am aware that council leaders are due to meet tomorrow further to that. Of course, my focus on this as I have outlined is very much on ensuring consistency in relation to how our local authorities are engaging with industrial action when it happens in their area. I met regularly with coesla on this point in the run-up to the last action as I intimated. I was very clear of the need for us to have a joint understanding of what that looked like and my expectation was that most schools should have remained open at that time, subject to a school-by-school risk assessment, which is the responsibility of local authorities. We had agreed form of wording that I can share with the member. I do not think that I need to read it out today, Presiding Officer. That was shared with ADES and I think that that was really important in ensuring that consistency. More broadly in relation to workforce planning, I work with coesla very regularly in relation to that challenge. I have asked the student board for teacher education to look more holistically at how we can plan better in relation to workforce planning and I look forward to engaging with coesla on this point and on the issues relating to school closures when I meet with them next week. Thank you and supplementary, Alasdair Allan. Can I ask the cabinet secretary how comparable investment in school education in Scotland compares to that in other parts of the UK? Independent research conducted by the Institute for Fiscal Studies found that in 2223, school spending per pupil in Scotland was more than £8,500. That is more than 18 per cent or £1,300 higher than the level seen in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, where spending was around £7,200 per pupil. We also had the highest spending per pupil, the lowest pupil teacher ratio, and the best-paid teachers in the UK, all of that in the face of over a decade of austerity from the UK Government and further cuts. That is what we have been able to achieve, Presiding Officer, with one hand tied behind our back. Imagine what we could have achieved with the full powers of independence. To ask the Scottish Government what progress it is making on implementing the recommendations on the skills delivered on a landscape in the report, fit for the future, developing a post-school learning system to fuel economic transformation. The programme for government sets out our plans for implementing reform of our education and skills bodies and putting the voices of children, young people and adult learners at their core. On post-school specifically, James Willis report was an important milestone in developing our approach to reform. We have been clear that we accept the direction of travel set out in the report, but we will take a little bit of time to fully consider the recommendations and engage with stakeholders before updating Parliament in the coming months on a set of actions. That is what we are actively doing. Scottish ministers agree that parity of esteem across all qualifications is essential with recognition needed on the importance of vocational skills. What is being done to help deliver that message to our schools, young people and parents? How can we ensure that employers have greater input into skills development to ensure that the skills are available to fuel future economic growth? The theme of parity of esteem, as Kerry Gibson indicates, comes across very strongly in The Withers report. It has done, I have to say, my own interaction with a host of interested parties, not the least of whom have been young people who have chosen to undertake apprenticeships. There are a number of ways that the message has already been delivered to schools or in schools that develop in the young workforce network, and careers advisers are important conduits to giving young people awareness to the range of qualifications that are now available in the senior phase, including foundation apprenticeships and access to the support that they need in order to make the decisions on their next steps. However, there is more to be done, and I think that the delivery of an enhanced national career service, as we have in mind, will be central to that. On employers, they will always have an important role to play in post-school education skills development, whether it has made important recommendations about strengthening that role, and I am considering how we best do that with a number of employer voices. It has been months since with this report, and as we heard yesterday, the Scottish Government has been largely silent on it. Can the minister confirm whether the Government intends to implement recommendation 5, establishing a single national funding body, and if so, when? I think that Liam Kerr relates what he terms of silence with inactivity. There has been a great deal of activity going on to developer thinking on that. I know that the recommendation that has come from winners on that specific point, I am sympathetic to it, but, as he would expect us to do, we are working through any potential unintended consequences that would flow from that, because I think that, as we all do in this chamber, we want the best outcome here for our learners. Workplace learning is a critical part of ensuring that students maximise the value of what they learn in the classroom or lecture theatre. Can I ask what the Scottish Government is doing in response to the Wither's report to maximise the use of apprenticeships and other forms of workplace learning within the education system to support Scotland's economic growth aspirations? I totally agree with the member on the importance of work-based learning. It is something that I would like to see more of building on the good work of the careers advisers and, in particular, DIY networks, in highlighting the range of opportunities available in the senior phase. Apprenticeships, I can assure the chamber, will continue to be front and centre of not only our work on reform but on our whole post-school system. I am also keen to explore how, in conjunction with employers, we increase opportunities for work experience to help young people to decide on the best career options for them. To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on the potential role of emerging video games technology in education and skills development. Digital technologies have been used to enhance teaching and learning experiences in Scotland for some time. When deployed effectively, digital technologies, including video game technology, have the potential to increase the engagement and motivation of learners and develop skills such as problem-solving, critical thinking, collaboration and digital literacy. It is, of course, for teachers, schools and local authorities to decide whether and how to make use of all forms of digital technology to best effect. I thank the minister for his answer. Next week is the second annual Scottish Games week. I urge college to attend events at Dynamic Earth, Michael Marra's event in the Parliament and to speak in my member's debate next week. The cultural, social and commercial value of the games sector is staggering. We need to embed it in the sector into public policy because video games are used in so many instances, including in colleges and in schools, but also in medical advances and in gaming platforms, part of so much that we do in society. Can I ask the minister how the requirements of the gaming industry are being embedded in our schools and colleges to ensure that we can truly meet our ambitions for Scotland as a digital nation? We are in a period of rapid digital advancement. We should consider what opportunities that progress might offer for our respective interests. The education delivery colleagues are already exploring how available and emerging technologies may be used to enhance teaching and learning, including video game technology. On a recent visit to Stornoway and the newly merged colleges, I saw for myself how students and schools across the vast area that the institution now covers were participating in remote learning of games-related courses being delivered by the college. On a tour of Abertau University, I was fascinated to see the learning that can be delivered by games technology. Fascinated, I should add, is a 60-year-old whose most recent interaction with games tech was probably playing space invaders. In all seriousness, the learners of today are far more acquainted with this technology than some of my vintage, and we would be missing a trick not to seize the opportunities that it presents in the area of education. The minister should not knock space invaders. It is a great pleasure to follow on from Clare Adamson's advert about next week. Development companies have much they can actually offer direct into our schools in the terms of STEM education. I think of the work of 4J Studios, based in East Lint and East Lothian, with a small outreach somewhere in Dundee, and the interaction that they have had with primary school and secondary school pupils. So can the minister outline what work is currently being done to facilitate individual industry players to work in schools? As we move out of the territory of space invaders and I was by no means knocking, I am coming out of my comfort zone. This is more in the space of the cabinet secretary. I am in the context of primary schools, cabinet secretary. I think that it would be reasonable to expect that we will do as much as we possibly can to encourage this, and I will be happy to write the member in greater detail. Move on before the ministerial splits question 4, Monica Lennon. Thank you, Deputy Prime Minister. To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of any link between nutrition and behaviour in its work to address violence in schools. The Scottish Government's programme for government restates our commitment to ensuring that our young people have access to the right nutrition, and we will continue to work with partners to ensure that that is realised. The behaviour in Scottish schools research, which has been published in November, will provide teachers' insights into factors that may underlie behaviour in our schools. We are also currently working with Young Scott and Youth Link Scotland to understand the impact of the cost of living crisis on young people's readiness to learn. The Scottish Government will consider those findings carefully to identify any actions that should be taken to address the concerns raised. Monica Lennon. I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for her response and for recently meeting with me and the STUC Women's Committee to discuss some of those issues. Today, I was placed at a tender event in Parliament sponsored by Jim Fairlie MSP, celebrating Scotland's school meals and front-line caterers, where speeches by assist FM and Food for Life Scotland reinforced the importance of feeding and nourishing young minds. With the Good Food Nation Act national plan coming to consultation, does the cabinet secretary agree that the roll-out of universal free school meals has never been more important, and can she update Parliament on when universal free school meals will be piloted in secondary schools? I thank the member for her question. We had a really worthwhile meeting with the STUC earlier this year, a few weeks ago now, and we discussed the issue of school nutrition at that meeting. I touched on some of the work that I hope to take forward with Mary Gougeon in the space of the Good Food Nation Bill, recognising the opportunities that that provides us with in ensuring that there is appropriate nutrition in our schools, and particularly in relation to our roll-out of free school meals that she touched on. We have recently established a joint ministerial working group on food, which will enable us to have a cross-government approach to those matters. I specifically asked for an agenda item that relates to school nutrition, to the member's point more broadly. That is in addition to some of our broader work, which supports the Food for Life programme. That aims to increase the amount of healthy locally sourced food that is served by local councils and schools and currently operates in 17 local authorities. That is another option to work more closely with COSLA in relation to that as well. The member asked for an update on the secondary pilot. I do not yet have a date for the roll-out of that pilot, but I am more than happy to write to the member on that. I know that we discussed that in some detail when we met recently. I have a couple of supplementaries first. The roll-out of universal free school meals for all pupils in primaries, one-to-five and in ASN education, has been startling. Could the cabinet secretary provide an update on the uptake of free school meals in general? The Government is very pleased that we can support families at this very difficult and challenging time through our free school meals scheme. I can confirm that our latest pupil census shows that over half of pupils are now registered for free school meals, with the proportion of eligible pupils increasing to just over 70 per cent. I would like to see that figure increase. We will continue to work with COSLA on ensuring that that is the case. This year's healthy living survey also found that 2,301 free school lunches were provided to children and young people on survey day. That represents an increase from the previous high of free school lunches provided in 2022. However, I am keen to work with COSLA to ensure that we can see that continued increase across the piece. We recognise that some of that has been impacted by changes in relation to behaviour at school as a result of the pandemic, but, undoubtedly, there is more work to be undertaken with COSLA on increasing that figure further. Not only is good nutrition linked to tackling violence in school, but it is also linked to physical and mental health, attainment and malnutrition. I am sure that we are all fed up seeing the cues of school children outside the chip shop at lunchtime, so it is not just about ensuring high-quality school meals, but it is also about encouraging that uptake in school meals, which is too low, especially in urban areas. Can I ask the cabinet secretary what the Scottish Government will do to promote and encourage school meals uptake? For his question, I recognise his interest, particularly in relation to physical exercise and the impact that that can have on raising attainment more broadly. I have provided an update in response to Michelle Thomson's question, so that proportion of eligible pupils has increased to around 70.4 per cent. However, there is more that we will need to do working with local authorities, particularly as the member relates to urban areas. I recall the chip man, for example, when I was at school that used to be parked outside. It is not a new problem that schools are facing, and I think that it is imperative that we engage with local authorities directly and actually head teachers in our schools who know our school communities and can help to put in place the encouragement that is needed to see that uptake increase further. Question 5 has been withdrawn. Question 6, Maurice Golden. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. To ask the Scottish Government what discussions the education secretary has had with ministerial colleagues regarding action to reduce instances of vaping in schools. We remain concerned about the proportion of young people using vaping products. Scottish Government officials in education and in health and in social care are working together to ensure that we have a holistic approach to tackling vaping in schools. We are also working with Education Scotland, Public and Third sector partners to support work on substance use education, and further work will be informed by insights from our forthcoming behaviour in Scottish schools research, which I alluded to in a previous response that we will publish next month. We would expect local authorities to work with our schools to ensure that appropriate measures are in place to deal with instances of vaping. Maurice Golden. I thank the cabinet secretary for that answer. We know that underage vaping is widespread, but we do not know how prevalent it is within our school system. Analysis that I conducted at the start of the year revealed that at least 22 local authorities were unable to provide information on vapes being confiscated from pupils. Can the cabinet secretary disclose what information the Scottish Government holds on that problem, and how many schools are now recording that information consistently? In terms of the evidence that we hold on this issue, although the most recent survey of young people in relation to substance use shows that the vast majority of teenagers do not vape regularly, we are concerned about the proportion of young people who have tried vaping. We know the majority of pupils agree or strongly agree that their school has given them the advice and support that they need to make important decisions about drinking, alcohol, smoking and drugs. However, more broadly, I think that there is further action that we can take. The member will recognise that there is a split in terms of responsibilities here, in terms of health and education. Education Scotland is taking forward further work to that end at a national level. However, I will be more than keen to see the members' data that he has gathered on this topic. I have not actually had sight of it, but I think that it is a really important topic that he has raised more broadly. I alluded to in my initial response to the behaviour in Scottish schools research, which will look to tap into some of the behaviour change that has happened in our schools, particularly since the pandemic. I will be more than happy to meet with the member to talk about this issue in more detail, recognising that it is a challenge in our schools at the current time. We know the colourful packaging, cheap price and easy accessibility of vaping products confirms that they are targeted at our younger population. We think that almost one in 10 of those who vapes are thought to be under the age of 16, and the health implications are still not known. Urgent action is required. Can the cabinet secretary update members on discussions that are had with schools and local authorities about stores that sell those products in close vicinity of schools to work towards ensuring that youth vaping, particularly in the school setting, is reduced and, indeed, eradicated? The enforcement of the legislation around the sale and the purchase of those products is carried out by local councils as part of the Enhanced Tobacco Sales Enforcement programme. That is overseen by the Society for Trading Standards officers in Scotland, and it is also funded by the Scottish Government. We did write last year to all retailers selling nicotine vapour products. The member makes an important point about the targeting of young people in this space. That was to remind them of their responsibilities to comply with the legislation around the sale of those products. More broadly, we would encourage anyone with information about suppliers who may be providing, for example, vapes to underage young people to contact trading standards. There is a challenge here, though, in relation to some of the legislation that we have been keen to work across the UK to have a four nations approach to tackling this issue more broadly. As I alluded to in my response to Maurice Golden, there is a separation between the educational opportunities and those in health. I will continue to work with my colleagues in the health directorate to ensure that we have a consistent approach across government to dealing with this issue. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to increase the number of new secondary school teachers. The Scottish Government is committed to supporting the recruitment of more teachers, and we are providing £145.5 million in this year's budget to protect increased teacher numbers and support staff across all local councils. We will also work with partners to promote teaching as a highly rewarding career and the opportunity to make a difference to the lives of children and young people. The aim of this work is to improve recruitment and retention, and to attract more highly qualified individuals into teaching to areas and subjects that are needed most. In addition, the strategic board for teacher education, which is made up of a range of key education stakeholders, is looking at issues around the recruitment and retention of teachers in Scotland in detail. Jamie Greene. I thank the cabinet secretary for that response. She must be disappointed though that last year over 800 vacancies went unfilled in our secondary schools. There is particular widespread concern about the lack of STEM teachers, and particularly in rural areas. Of course, take-up of the Golden Hallow aimed at addressing shortages of rural teachers have reaped disappointingly low levels of interest. Can I ask the cabinet secretary why she thinks her own government is struggling to meet its own targets for recruiting into secondary schools? More importantly, what reassurances can the Government offer parents and pupils that they will not be facing reduced subject choice because there simply are not the teachers available to teach those subjects? I recognise the member's interests in this area. I know who has asked a number of written portfolio questions on this recently. He talked about the Golden Hallow. I declare an interest, having ticked the box myself back in 2008, and I went to Elgin for a year to teach. The preference waiver payment provides probationary teachers with an additional payment, as the member has alluded to. More broadly, there has been a change in relation to how people engage with that system. I held a round table with probationers just before parliamentary recess and heard from them a number of different approaches to how they are regarding their employment, with people perhaps less likely to move than they may have been in the past. We need to recognise that challenge, particularly to the member's points on specific subjects. We have a teaching bursary scheme that gives bursaries of up to £20,000 for career changers wishing to undertake a one-year postgraduate qualification in hard to fill STEM subjects that the member alludes to, such as physics, maths, technical education, computing, science, chemistry and home economics. That scheme has also now been extended to include Gallic as a secondary subject and Gallic Medium across all secondary subjects and in primary. It is worthwhile pointing out that the number of school teachers we have in Scotland has increased since December 2014. The number of school teachers in post has increased by 8 per cent. However, I recognise that there are subject-specific challenges in particular in secondary. That is why I have commissioned the strategic war for teacher education to look at the issue in further detail and to provide me with greater advice on how we can support that challenge. A couple of supplementaries from Audrey Neckle. Alongside increasing teaching numbers, retention is also a key matter that the cabinet secretary has alluded to. Can I ask the cabinet secretary what further work the Scottish Government is undertaking to promote and support retention across Scotland's teaching profession? The retention of teachers is absolutely key and also undoubtedly the historic pay settlement that reached earlier this year will go some way towards showing our teachers how valued they are in Scotland. However, we are also working with our partners to promote teaching as a highly rewarding career with, as I mentioned in my initial response, the opportunity to make a difference in the lives of our young people. The aim of this work is to improve recruitment but also to the member's question of retention and attract more highly qualified individuals into teaching to make a difference in our classrooms. In addition, as I mentioned in my response to Jamie Greene, the strategic war for teacher education is looking at issues around recruitment and retention of teachers in Scotland in detail. I am also looking to work with our teaching unions on this issue more broadly to look at how we can work together to encourage more people into teaching. Thank you, Presiding Officer. The Institute of Engineering and Technology highlighted some of the problems that they are having or they are seeing in finding teachers in STEM. I welcome the cabinet secretary's comments about the bursaries, but in the report that the organisation used, it asked for a review of those bursaries because they are not attracting people who work in those sectors to change careers and go into teaching. So what can the cabinet secretary do to try and attract those people further into teaching? I thank the member for her question. I think that she raises an important point as she has touched on. I have outlined in my response to Jamie Greene some of the additionality that we have provided here. There have been historic challenges here and a number of different subjects over a number of different years. I know for example that there are gender divides, for example in the teaching of physics and maths and we need to be cognisant about that and encourage more women into the teaching of those subjects more generally. I have been more than happy to meet with the member to talk about some of the opportunity here. Although I am not going to, on my feet today, commit to review, I am more than happy to look at this issue in a bit more detail. Because in our secondary school recruitment process specifically, there are gaps in terms of certain subject areas and we need to be cognisant that different action will be needed to respond to those challenges accordingly. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on any discussions between the city of Glasgow college senior management and trade union representatives regarding the on-going industrial dispute. Presiding Officer, while colleges are responsible for operational decisions on resourcing and staffing, the Government expects that the principles of fair work will be at the heart of decision making and I have written to all college principles to make that clear. I expect every effort to be made in consultation with the campus trade unions to protect jobs. On the city of Glasgow colleges specifically, I have also engaged with the chair of Glasgow colleges regional board which has all governance oversight here on the situation at the college. In addition, the Scottish Government has regular meetings with both college employers Scotland and representatives of campus trade unions where workforce issues are discussed, including those at city of Glasgow college. I thank the minister for that answer. I have been contacted by numerous students, parents and staff and this dispute has been on-going. The continued impasse leading to further strike action has caused disruption to students' educational experience with the potential to do severe damage to the reputation of the college. What additional powers does the minister have to intervene on this matter and does he agree with me that now is the time to step in and exercise them in any way that he can to help bring about a resolution? I think that I have outlined a very workforce issues relating to redundancy and severance and operational matters for the college themselves to consider and ministers have no locus to intervene. I think that I have also been clear, however, that in all my discussions with the sector matters relating to workforce, fair work must be the guiding light. In my engagement with the chair of Glasgow College's regional board, I sought assurances that fair work principles have been followed at city of Glasgow and the impacts on learning and students have been considered in decision making. What I think we can all agree on, Presiding Officer, regarding this college is that industrial relations there are extremely poor and without doubt, as co-cab students are allured to. That is a detrimental effect on students. I hope that the member will be interested to learn that Education Scotland has commenced a planned thematic review of all three colleges in Glasgow which, while among other things, cover governance and management. If, and I stress if, that activity will not highlight any areas of concern, then it would be open to the SFC to take an interest in such matters. Thank you, and with a bit of time over the course of this afternoon, I will take a brief supplementary from Willie Rennie. The industrial dispute at the city of Glasgow College is symptomatic of the wider problems, deep-rooted problems, we have in the college sector. As he prepares for the budget process for next year, where do colleges fit within his priorities? And secondly, will he review the Government's policy of no compulsory redundancies and bring them to the college sector? Minister. Presiding Officer, I respect Willie Rennie's position. I mean, the underlying message is there that you have to find more money for colleges. Of course, what we never hear from the Opposition benches is where you would find that money from, you know, and that's the luxury I accept that Opposition benches are. Of course, colleges are a priority for the citizens. Willie Rennie well knows this isn't simply about the budget process, it's also about how we engage with the colleges. He knows that we have been doing a lot of work around flexibilities for colleges to allow them that bit of scope to create a more sustainable immediate term until we can get them into a stronger position. On the point about compulsory redundancies, the position on that has not changed. There has been no change to that. I hope he now accepts that. It's not that colleges have been moved from that policy. They've always been where they are now. So I hope that answers his question. Thank you, Minister. That concludes portfolio questions. There'll be a brief pause before we move to the next item of buzziness to allow front benches to change.