 China. And I couldn't believe that the US would think it was a good idea to go to war on China, since we must be cooperating with them right now about the planet, about the people. I mean, we live in fragile times. And there's never a reason for war war is never the answer shame on anyone who thinks about war. And so that's, you know, always true. But what madness to be pushing a war on China with the exact same playbook that they use every time they go to war on someone. It's like they play it out the same way, which, you know, doesn't bode well for them also as warmongers, because they have no creativity. So end this drive to war. We've just have a new coordinator, which will meet in a few minutes. And one of the first tasks was we've created a new mission statement for our campaign because it is so big as the years have gone by and it's increased and like the different weaponry that they're using and they're already at war with. So here's our new mission statement for you from sanctions to military expansion. The US is heading towards a dangerous confrontation with China. Our campaign aims to stop this march towards war and redirect resources to cooperation that benefits people and the planet mounting hostilities are stopping us from addressing existential challenges like the climate crisis, as well as harming Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders, and people in the wider Asia Pacific region, all caught in the crossfire due to escalating tensions. Propaganda is driving heat and intended to make China an enemy. So the US people will feel comfortable giving over 50% of their taxpayer dollars to go to war. We are at a pivot moment in history. The US believes that they can win a nuclear war against China, and it is preparing for that war. One of those preparation is to manipulate the minds of US citizens to support this war, which threatens our society as much as China and the rest of the world. So welcome to some of you who are coming in. Welcome to another episode of China's Not Our Enemy. And if you want to put your name and where you're from in the chat, feel free. So the last few episodes of China's Not Our Enemy, we've been listening to voices from Asia. A few weeks ago, we heard from Seyo Saruta from Japan, and then John Peng from Malaysia. And listening to them and why we want to be hearing these voices from Asia is that we live in a narrative. So I want to say the dictatorship of the war economy narrative. And we're just not aware that we live inside of that. I know some of us were very shocked at the fog of war that happened around Ukraine. But that's the that is the narrative. And there are narrative controls that we live in. And shockingly, since I've been working on this campaign, the racism and the lack of information on China that most people have is kind of staggering. But it's not just not knowing anything. It's knowing bizarre things that have nothing to do with the truth. So one of the, you know, things that we're doing with China's Not Our Enemy is trying to actually expose China to you. Instead of China, the construct that you've been fed for, you know, not just now, but decades. And it's, it's gotten existentially worse. It's just, it's on steroids, the lies and the propaganda that you're fed each week. So having voices outside of the narrative, give us an insight into what's happening is what we really want to be focusing on for the next few guests. But today, I'm super excited to introduce you to Kale Holmes. He's an international relations analyst, a writer and environmentalist who has lived in Beijing. He's joined Code Pink as our China's Not Our Enemy campaign coordinator. If you want to know more about our campaign, I'm going to put it in the chat right now. But just so you can know that it's there's a lot been happening, we have a lot of actions, you can find more there. But for now, I'd really love you to listen to Kale because, you know, living three years in China, that's a rare experience, especially for an American. So, Kale, say hi to everyone. And if you want to say a little more about yourself, than I did, I take this opportunity, maybe like, where you grew up, where you were educated, just take it a little personal for a minute for us. Absolutely. Well, hello, everyone. Thanks so much, Jody, for that introduction. I kind of, I remember since my childhood, I've been interested in the rest of the world. I think that Americans don't really have a deep understanding or enough of us don't, I think, have a deep understanding of the rest of the world. So I was fascinated to learn more. I was actually born abroad in Saudi Arabia. And I was raised between there and Texas. My parents were working over there. And through, I guess, a series of decisions, I ended up, you know, being involved in activism, when we moved to the DC area, I was involved kind of in the Occupy Wall Street movement and Power Shift, the Power Shift conferences for, you know, climate action, a lot of student environmental conferences. In college, I also was kind of a leading campus organizer for different social justice causes. And then college was also when I started learning Mandarin. And when I first went to China in 2013, and I kind of was very captivated by that experience was really captivated by my Chinese teacher in college. And I always knew I kind of wanted to be some kind of bridge between the US and China with that unique background. Just knowing about what China is, and, you know, what China is depicted as. I always joke it's like Schrodinger's China, it's two different Chinese. And so yeah, I, you know, I care a lot about peace and I care a lot about, you know, international relations being as harmonious as they can be, because I feel like especially, you know, my uncle comes from a background of activism in the 60s, he was in the Communist Party. And he was very into national liberation movements. And I feel like, you know, I have a lot to learn from those national liberation movements. You know, I think us in the US, whether we're fighting racism or other economic ills. And yeah, I just want to work for a world where we have more understanding. Awesome. Well, thank you. You're definitely in a community that gives their life to that in the group we have listening tonight. So you went to China, you studied Mandarin. How hard is it to learn Mandarin? Let's just start there. Yeah, so I learned Mandarin. It's kind of interesting. I really excelled at it when I first started learning in college. It's very difficult for me still with characters, you know, there's no alphabet in the Chinese language, but there's like, you know, lots and lots of characters. But like, one thing that helped was being immersed. As I mentioned earlier, I visited China during my college years as a study of broad student. And I spent three months and I had a language pledge. Couldn't speak my mother tongue. None of the students could speak their mother tongues. And that immersion actually helps, you know. So I think Noam Chomsky has that idea that every language is kind of, you know, pre-programmed into our brain. It's just a matter of, you know, immersing to bring it out. And that definitely was the case for me. Cool. So then what took you to live in China? You're in school and you visit and you're learning Mandarin. What was that pivot moment for you to live in China? Yeah, well, I guess during my, you know, when I visited in college, I was very interested to kind of see China's place in the world. You know, I was very cognizant. I was also researching Chinese politics and Chinese history. And a lot of interesting developments were happening when I was in college, including the, you know, the creation of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank and things like, you know, China's Belt and Road Initiative launched in 2013 the year I visited China for the first time. And, you know, I hadn't seen anything like that. And I think I hadn't read anything like that since happening in World Affairs for a long time. And I was like, I think, you know, not in a cliche sense, but I think China is going to be a very important part of international politics going into the coming decades. So I want to be the center of that. And of course, I also saw the pivot to Asia, which happened under Obama on the horizon. And I kind of wanted to be, I guess, a cultural interlocutor between American and Chinese culture, because I had such a fun time in China. And I want to convey that back to people here in the States. And I, you know, I went to school for journalism and got a job working for state media back in 2019. So that's pretty impressive. Yeah, it was a very kind of a good way, I think, to get introduced to China and also understand China's political culture, too. So what did you do? What did you do? I mean, I don't. Oh, sorry. What did you do in China? Oh, yeah. So I was working for state media for multiple years. And then I also worked for different groups, too, like China Development Brief and NGO. And I was, when I wasn't doing journalism and when I wasn't, you know, working as an editor, I was, you know, kind of just experiencing Beijing. I lived in the Hutong, which is a very ancient kind of dwelling around the forbidden palace in Beijing. They date back to the Yuan Dynasty, which was in the Mongols rule of China, and very, very, you know, beautiful architecture. And that has a vibrant culture, the Hutongs, all, you know, in of themselves, different restaurants, you know, bars, different museums. And so I would explore those often. Also, I was, I did stand on comedy when I was in Beijing. I was a kind of a pillar of the stand on comedy community to quote a friend who's at Paddy's, which was one of the Irish pubs that I performed in. And I also kind of volunteered to, you know, the most, you know, reasonable extent, you know, of course, knowing my roles of foreigner and what capacity I can, shouldn't, shouldn't have in a foreign country. But, you know, I participated with groups like Beijing Energy Network, or, you know, different folks advocating for environmental advocacy in China. So kind of a hodgepodge of everything. But wait, you're saying that there are groups in China that advocate for things? I thought it was a dictatorship. Yeah, it's one of these things people really don't understand. You know, China is a lot more socially and politically, you know, vibrant and fluid than people think. It's not really like some kind of, you know, rigid and inflexible kind of society. It's, there's so much, so many things happening all the time. So, you know, what was it like to be black in China? I mean, that's, that's, you know, a rarity. Yeah, I mean, I was actually there also, and we'll get into this a little bit later during the COVID pandemic. And there was a big exodus of a lot of, you know, foreign residents during that time. And, you know, people will definitely, you know, people in China, like locals will definitely like notice you. And, you know, there are not that, there were more black people before the start of the pandemic. And, you know, now I think there's a blow coming back again. But people will definitely notice you because you stand out. And, but, you know, it's people aren't necessarily like staring out of like, hey, you know, that's not really something I experienced. It's always, you know, out of a place of curiosity. And then a lot of people, you know, Beijing is a very cosmopolitan place. So, you have people from all over the world, people from Africa, Latin America, Middle East, students from everywhere. So, it's like, you know, you're in the thick of it. And, you know, if you're a local, if you're a resident and you live in Beijing, you kind of are treated like a local. So, that's kind of my experience. And also people are often interested to, you know, ask me about, you know, the state of race relations in the United States and, you know, what I think about, you know, how a certain presidential candidate, whether or not they're treating the black community fairly, that's a question that will come up and taxi rise from time to time. So, when you're doing your stand-up comedy, it's in English, right? Yes, yeah. I do, I intermix Mandarin while I was in Beijing with some of my jokes, but mainly in English. Okay. Okay, let's talk about food. You know, my experience of China is just food is a whole nother experience. What was your favorite food and tell us about food culture in China? Yeah. So, my favorite food, I go back and forth and it changes all the time, but I have to say it's Chongqing Liamian. It's one of my favorites. It's essentially a noodle soup from Chongqing, China. It's one of the spiciest things you can ever eat, depending on how it's made. It's, you know, it's just delight and, you know, I'm almost like craving some right now. And, you know, food culture is really big in China. You know, I, as soon as it's like maybe 10 or 11 a.m., people will kind of, you know, people who are at a workplace together, people who are in a team, colleagues will go to lunch typically. Sometimes people go by themselves, but there is a culture of like kind of people going to lunch together. A lot of big companies, especially state-owned companies, will have cafeterias and kind of like almost eating for free there and people just kind of converse and it's really interwoven. Food is a deep, deep part of Chinese culture. If someone invites you over to their family's house for a meal, it's such a loving experience. And it's almost like, you know, you might find yourself in a situation where people you're with are like so, so generous, almost too generous, like, you know, eat more, eat more, doh he, doh chi. That's a big part of the food culture in China. All right. Well, let's talk about getting around. China is all about subways, trains, and planes. And I'm sure you had a chance to get around. So you lived in Beijing. Maybe you share with us some of your favorite places that you visited and what it's like to be, you know, in all the transportation that China has to offer. Yeah. Well, Beijing has, you know, I think, I have to double check, but I think it has like one of the top 10 rated, you know, public transit systems in the world. It's very, you know, it's often like a train comes. You can never technically be late for your train because like you missed a train that you see when you're about to get on the platform. And then like another train's coming. I mean, when you get to the outskirts of the city, like it is kind of, it gets a little bit less dense, like the subway coverage, but, and especially in the center of Beijing, very efficient, very, very clean and safe. And nationally, China has the the Galkia or the high speed rail system. And it's really amazing. I mean, I've never, you know, been on a train where it's like, it's almost the experience kind of is like, you know, being on an airplane. And, you know, you can go almost anywhere in the country. Most people in China actually prefer to travel by train as opposed to plane domestically. And, you know, I would often visit places like Qingdao, which is the home of Qingdao beer, some may know. Xiamen, which is one of my favorite cities in China, very beautiful city. They have an island called Gu Longyu, which is the world's like one of the world's pedestrianized islands with no cars, no, no bicycles. And, yeah, Chengdu, also one of my favorite cities as well, because it's just been kind of at the forefront of a lot of cool tech innovation and a lot of interesting kind of environmental and social policies that have become much more nationally adopted in China. Well, maybe you can talk about that a little bit because those are two very different places, the no walking and then Chengdu, who it was once, it was like farms, what, 10 years ago, or some very short period of time ago. And now it's just, you know, kind of overwhelming technology. But maybe, you know, use that as an example of, if you could take us a little deeper, and what does that look like and how do you experience it? Because it's kind of a brand new city, but huge, right? Yeah, yeah, it's a place where, you know, you have a good convergence of, like a lot of places in China like this, the old and the new. And, you know, it's, there's been like a lot of, you know, people also moving there from all around China to, and that's made it almost like a very kind of a crossroads of Chinese culture as well as like, you know, all this, you know, big technological innovation going on, which is like putting it on the world map. And so it's, it's almost surreal, you know, as you feel like you're kind of walking in the future and also connected to, you know, times, you know, centuries and sometimes millennia ago. So when I was just in Beijing a few months ago, I learned about Xi's Clean Waters Lush Mountain Campaign, because all the, every road we were driving on, the center of the road was more roses than I'd ever seen. I was like, Pasadena, you've been, you know, overtaken. Can you tell us a little bit about that Clean Waters Lush Mountain Campaign? Do you know anything about it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's been a big priority of the, of the Xi Jinping administration, you know, because of course during the 1990s and the 2000s, environmental problems were very, very much a feature in China's development process. And, you know, around, especially like from the mid-2010s onwards, there's been so many, so much national, such a big national focus on just making sure the rivers and the soil and the water are just, you know, sustainable for everyone, because they, it's seen as like a quality of life issue. It's seen as a biodiversity protection issue. When I was in Beijing, it also kind of fed into kind of making Beijing a biodiversity. And I didn't know how many, so many different plants and animals are in Beijing. Like I think a species of wildcat even, which I didn't even know until I was there. But, you know, also I did a lot of stories when I was working in Beijing about how there's like, you know, river, you know, river guardians all across China who are, you know, kind of in charge of making sure the rivers are clean and, you know, really kind of putting people as like the hand and foot of environmental protection policy, especially when it comes to, you know, restoring the rivers. And also there was the landmark law, which kind of protected the Yangtze River in, I want to say 2022. And it was done in a way, consultation with like Fisher, Fisher people, Fisher vogue, as well as environmental advocates and yeah, it's quite, in the shielding results, you know, I saw a report that said, you know, pollution has gone down, people are even living longer. And, you know, it was such an interesting, it's interesting to see that and it's a big priority of the Xi administration. So let's talk about like change. We live in a country where change is just like, we keep voting different people in, but nothing changes. And talk about, you know, because some people say, oh, well, you can't live in Shanghai and Beijing because the air quality is too bad, except I check it every day and it's better than LA. So, which is where I live. So, you know, maybe talk about the experience of change because that's, it happens and so fast and the acceptance and how change happens. Maybe if you could share some of that. Yeah. I mean, China is always changing. I feel like since, I mean, in its history, certainly in, you know, the past century, past few decades, past few years are no different. You know, it's one of the things I always like to say is China is always changing. There's always, whether it's, you know, different groups within, you know, the Chinese system or, you know, different, you know, different generations who are, have new ideas about how things, how work, for example, should, how the workplace should be run or like how we should think about the environment, for example, and how do we deal with the pandemic in a way that's sustainable. All these things are, all these things are always being discussed. You know, people say that like there's kind of no debate in China, which is like, not true. Like every, I actually was hearing from a friend when I was in Beijing about like a very, very intense debate that was happening on a remaining university campus about, you know, China's modern history and like how to analyze the mistakes of, you know, certain policies. And, you know, even with like during the zero COVID kind of, the dynamic zero COVID policy era, that policy was always changing and always kind of, it was happening that like necessarily, though this is a situation that it was always in flux you know, there's always different interests which are being, which are trying to assert their own agency within Chinese society, whether it be different social classes, whether it's regional versus the national government. So that's always happening and you have, for example, people hear about 996, like long hours and yet, you know, you have a new movement in China, the life lap movement where it's kind of similar to, I guess, the Great Resignation, but a little bit more, I guess, tailored to China where people are doing that in different cities, for example, and migrant workers are also part of this life-flat trend. And in some cases, it's leading to better opportunities and migrant workers are able to kind of assert more of their rights through these kind of things. I mean, there's still lots of changes and people in China will always tell you we are always changing. There's always, you know, problems that we're dealing with. But that's kind of the, the Chinese political culture is one of change, I would say, right now and it's happening fast. So yes, one of change, that's not what we're taught is that that change can happen and people can agitate for it. You talked a little bit about COVID. You know, what was it like to live under COVID? You know, one of the things I feel happened in COVID is that you really got to experience the direct democracy part of China where it's really happening, like you said, it's changing all the time. But also it determines what happened to you was determined by the neighborhood you lived in. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, I mean, different cities are doing different things, different neighborhoods were always doing different things. You know, there's actually, as I was saying before, often like a, you know, a toss between like regional and national government policies. And that's definitely a feature of China. Speaking of kind of, you know, when I was in Ningbo to visit my host family who I stayed with when I was in college, I remember my, I called my Chinese brother, he was telling me about how they have kind of like the neighborhood kind of local elections. And then they elect, you know, people upwards and it goes from, you know, so on, you know, more and more all the way up to the legislature. And I feel like that's interesting kind of, that's an interesting feature of China because people say like the era of mass politics doesn't exist anymore that existed, you know, in the early days of the Chinese Revolution. But there's definitely a feature of mass politics that's still common in China. So what was it like with COVID though? Like what was your neighborhood like? What were the rules? What happened when the shutdown happened? How did that feel? Was the community there to support each other? Like what, what was that like? We were here and the streets were empty. So just, you know, what's... Yeah, I actually, it was interesting because I actually had kind of two experiences. I moved departments twice when I was in China and, you know, when COVID first hit and, you know, we all were working from home, you know, luckily in Beijing there was never really a lockdown in the sense that there was a Wuhan or Shanghai. So I was able to kind of always go get groceries around the corner and, you know, the neighborhood kind of workers were always, you know, making sure that I knew where to get, you know, tested for COVID. When the vaccine came out, they were often kind of... There was never a vaccine mandate in China, interestingly enough. There was what I like to call when people were encouraging you to get vaccinated that neighborhood workers would often ask you, oh, like, are you getting vaccinated? You know, you could, you know, you would always tell them, yeah, I plan on it. And I actually got vaccinated like very quickly when the Sinopharm vaccine came out. But, yeah, and then neighborhood workers were always kind of, you know, letting people know the rules. People had groups on WeChat. WeChat is like this app that's similar, I guess, to Instagram and Slack and Facebook and Twitter all in one. And so different apartment buildings would use WeChat often. And yeah, that was my experience. And my second apartment, when things got a little bit more severe in Beijing, there was always kind of someone going and letting you know, oh, this is where the community can go to get tested. And, you know, if that place is a long line, go here. And kind of like always, you have to, you know, scan your QR code to ensure that you hadn't been to a place with any close contacts. And I remember one time my phone died, and I was like, I got to go upstairs and put my phone. And then, but luckily in that case, the, you know, people in the community were understanding. Good. Well, that's, it feels very neighborhoodly. What about the, there was another campaign, kind of like the Clean Waters Lush Mountains, the, I forgot, the separating of the Waste Campaign, I forgot what it's called. Oh yeah, Laji Fen Lei. That was a big campaign, you know, because especially when I lived in the Hoot Hall, there was always, you know, people, it's like very kind of ancient housing or, you know, really, really old buildings. And so trying to organize a way to make sure, you know, waste is kind of officially, efficiently sorted was a big thing, like all across, you know, China, but especially in Beijing. And in Shanghai, you know, Shanghai folks, I knew, I had some friends in Shanghai and they said that, you know, in Shanghai, we're really, you know, we take Laji Fen Lei so seriously, but Beijing sometimes, you know, is slacking. And I was like, come on, you know, in Dongcheng, we're doing our best. Dongcheng was where the Hu Dongs I lived in were. And, you know, Dongcheng is actually, like a big part of it, because, you know, people in the neighborhoods were always soaring things. And it's kind of what we were just talking about, about neighborhood almost being, the neighborhood folk, really being familial. You know, you have a connection with everybody, where I was like taking out the trash and, you know, this other uncle would often, you know, ask me, oh, like, do you have any questions about how to separate things? And he would often help me. It was a very kind of, it's a very interesting feeling to be that connected to your community. And elections, were you there during one of the elections? Yeah, I was there during the 20th CPC National Congress, very historic time in China. And it was, it's interesting because, you know, I was, you know, working with colleagues and we were reporting on things like, one of the kind of recent reforms in China is, or kind of buzzwords, is this idea of a whole process, people's democracy. And one feature of it is, you know, kind of, it's kind of localized in, you know, only a few cities at the moment, but kind of getting recommendations on legislation from citizens, rank and file neighborhood residents. You know, in Shanghai, there's a big center for this. And that was like, you know, this 20th CPC National Congress was one of the first times that was kind of part of like the, you know, both the messaging and the Congress itself. And like, how seriously do people take voting? Is it something everybody does, you know, kind of like here it's a day and everybody's voting? Does it have that sense? Not really. I feel like, you know, since it's a lot more localized, it's a lot more, you know, community-based. And I feel like politically speaking, you know, people kind of see their engagement as, involves in their community, but then also if they are like, you know, politically active, doing much more, you know, kind of like working on issues they care about, whether that be, for example, the environment or something else. Oh, wow, so actual engagement instead of just voting. That sounds exciting. We're not to the U.S. So what was your heartbeat at CTGN? What issues were you covering? Yeah, so I kind of did a bit of everything. I was mainly focused on like international relations and the environment. I pitched a climate segment called Planet Matters. And, you know, I was very happy about that. And, you know, that's one of the things that Chinese media is focusing a lot more on these days is, you know, climate change and, you know, energy politics and climate change finance and things like that. And I was trying to definitely push, definitely like push so much, push like climate, you know, justice stories in there as well and talk about, you know, the impact of the global economy and how, you know, it's harder for some countries to make this a green transition than others, right? And also focusing on the effects of climate change in Africa. I, you know, tried to pitch that often. Cool, cool. Is there a way people can see some of your shows? Yeah, if you, I don't think they put like the tab on, but, you know, I did, you know, have a, I narrated, I, sorry, I, yeah, I worked on a package, news, we call it like a two-minute story package. And it was on U.S.-China climate cooperation, which has been on shaky ground as of late. But I did that story. And, yeah, if you look up China-U.S., climate dialogue, CGTN, you should be able to find it. Well, we have to know, we have to put that in our Code Pink slash China spot on the website under, you know, cooperation. Well, we'll make sure it's there. You can find it there next week. Absolutely. So what did you learn that you would want people to know, like, about China when you were there? Are there any lessons you want to bring home to us? Yeah, I think, like I was saying before, China is always changing. And, you know, it's not, it's not static. It's always, you know, it's a society that's definitely grappling with lots of issues, grappling lots of problems. And it's often, you know, beyond the headlines. If you read, I recommend different, you know, sources to watch China that are much more, you know, balanced. You can kind of see that in the coverage. I'd also say, you know, China is still developing country and it's still developing in the sense that, you know, its healthcare system is, you know, still in development compared to, say, more industrialized nations, especially in the West. And so that was actually a big part of the logic behind holding onto the diameter of COVID policy, which is like not overwhelming hospitals and understanding, like, you know, because COVID had, you know, there was a study that was showing how it kind of had a class character to it where people in rural areas where there's still kind of sparse hospital coverage were more supportive of it than middle class urban residents. And, you know, when it comes to things like the China's environmental transition, you know, things, it's, you know, China is still in that developmental stage. And that kind of gets to my third lesson, which is China is, you know, really focused on security right now. The world is in crisis and, you know, China is aware of all these things post 2008 recession, especially post COVID. And it's in its messaging about its economy, you know, whether it's assuring investors or whether it's, you know, the way it covers the way it covered the U.S. Afghan withdrawal and, you know, the concerns for Afghanistan's future afterwards. China is very, you know, focused on, like, it's financial. It's like territorial integrity and people should really understand that. And, you know, I will also say people in China are still open to the world. I mean, you have so many stories that in Chinese media that are about like international students coming in. I was there during the meeting between Xi Jinping and Olaf Scholz from Germany. And that was an amazing kind of period where it was kind of like a little bit of like a kind of post-COVID diplomatic breakthrough in some senses. And, you know, I think engagement with the world, good faith exchange is definitely something that, you know, people embrace and respond well to. I mean, the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics was another example of that. Whether, you know, people were, I think Anthony Blinken, or sorry, someone in the White House, I forget, was trying to send Beijing a message by boycotting the games. But, you know, China treated athletes from all countries very, you know, very well. The same at least as any other country that hosted the Winter Games. And, you know, this is all to say that, like, China is not our enemy. And that's, you know, probably one of the most crucial lessons that I learned. Oh, that's beautiful. So is there any questions before we say goodbye and our gratitude to Kayle? I think what I've heard is, you know, it's a place just like any other place with humans just trying to live their lives in caring and beautiful ways. And it's not our enemy. Is there any outstanding questions you might have that I missed? You can put them in the chat or Pedro, it looks like you unmuted. Are you having one? Yes, I was wondering if Kayle is thinking about, I would love to see something, a comprehensive book, maybe on his view of China and what he's experienced. I think that would be a big, big seller here. People are interested in what's going on there. Thank you. Are you considering anything like that? Well, he's writing a piece in the code, and the code pink China is not our enemy book. So you'll hear from him there. But yes, you're right. We need to, that's why we're listening to him today. We don't get enough of just what China's like, especially from someone who's lived in many other cultures. Can see the differences and can see the similarities. Good point, Pedro. So if no one else has a question, thank you for being here. You can engage with us where we want to let Congress know that China is not our enemy. And so I'm putting in the chat that our action that you can take tonight, it's www.codepink.org slash China Day. We need to tell Congress that China is not our enemy. And we also need to be building this movement. What we know is that too many people in the United States are lost in a narrative, in lies, in facts about China that are very, very old. And as we heard from Kaila, China is changing constantly. So to identify with a China that doesn't even exist anymore, except at the core, it's got a very peaceful culture, a culture committed to harmony, a culture committed to care, culture that is not about individuals. It's about the whole. It's about the planet. It's about your community. It's about your family. And as we heard, it's about service. So share these conversations with your friends. And we need to spread the word that China is not our enemy. This would be a mistake for the entire planet. For the US to go to war on China. China doesn't want to be at war with the United States. And when I asked the people of China as I was leaving for my last trip, the US is planning a war on you. What do you think? And they're always like, I'm worried about the people in the United States. So let's worry about all of us and work together to end this war on China. Thanks for joining. Thank you, Kale Holmes, for not only sharing your experience, but being part of our Kudping team. And thanks, all of you, you beautiful peacemakers. I love you. Thanks for joining us until next time. Onward to peace. We've only got a few more weeks left of the summer of peace. Get out there. Be visible for peace. Thank you. Good night.