 Welcome to the uh to the live man. Can you see me? Can you hear me? I can hear you good. I can see you good. Thank you. Welcome Thanks. Thank you, man. I appreciate the time good man. So what's the issue man? I don't have an issue. I just think it's kind of strange to me to see so much uh catholic bad. I mean I I would say uh on on the face of it is just like There's a there's a serious misrepresentation of the of the current catholic standing around many of these issues. Okay. Number one that number one that we put mary on the same pedestal as god or christ. It's not true It's not true at all. It mary is mary is above other saint. She's above other uh certain prophets But she's not above she is not on the same level as christ and she's not on the same level as god in the catholic tradition Not in the catholic tradition. I came up in now. Here's another thing that's being misrepresented that catholicism in general Around the world is monolithic. Yes, it presented as monolithic through a symbolic figure like the pope But every every congregation every separate congregation does not follow um all of these all of these nuanced interpretations of the text To a tee so you may get a priest in this place who Does this thing this way you make it a priest here who does this thing this way? so there's a lot of human a lot of uh a lot of uh Individuality brought to the way that scripture is interpreted in in catholic uh institutions Hence you had a catholic pedophile uh epidemic or a catholic pedophile thing Where obviously those priests were were deviating from the from the scripture and from the norm So, you know, these are just misinterpretations But but and I don't even that's not the big issue that I have the big issue is that it seems to me as though a lot of these nuances or disagreements around interpretation of scripture are used to keep us Distracted from the fact that an anti god force is on the rise and it's on the move and and I might add many 501 c3 christian institutions Have conceded the ground for this anti god force to proliferate in society While they argue about the interpretation of scripture and I'm not I'm not stupid to that and anybody who tries to who anybody who tries to have a sort of conversation that avoids that that Stark reality that obvious reality that the anti god movement is right in our face and at our doorstep Is is being dishonest in my opinion the proof is there the proof is there So like and I again, I appreciate you for coming on. So let me just ask you the question You said that mary Is placed higher above the prophet you said It's certain. I mean when you say prophet mary is in a special place according to what In court according to her being the mother of god in court and according to her being chosen as as um A blessed vessel to be able to carry The the trinitarian christ You have to believe if you don't believe that mary is unique Then you can't believe that god is god Why would god why would god allow even why would god Choose a woman a single individual woman upon no marriage. That's not a god that we would serve Okay, so unique unique in what sense are you are you referring to her being unique? being a virgin She a virgin. Yes. She was she was without sin Well, now you say she was without sin She was a virgin. She was without that type of sin. Okay. Now. Okay, so so but she was not She was not without the sin of adam Not without the sin of adam. No, okay. So no, okay So I want to make sure you're qualifying your point because you said at first you said she was without sin So now my question was not she was she was she was without Without sexual sin sexual immorality. Okay, so now Why do you have a scripture that will support mary being above the prophets or being in a higher rank? The scripture is that she was chosen. She was chosen by god to carry the son of of god that we agree We agree with that but you said that she I don't need anymore. See, but that's what you see the problem I have with your whole interpretation is that you'll say, oh, well We don't need any extra scripture or or it's just a scripture But i'm using just the scripture itself to to qualify my so then give me So to tie up the title of my show is called the scripture is that mary was chosen to bear jesus christ Okay, but but but but feral was i don't need no more than that But but rois, hold on. Hold on. Hold on rois. Listen if you if you're saying that could we have it We're having a theological conversation, right? Right. Okay. So we're having a theological conversation Then we need to have a standard by which we're discussing theology. Which is the study of god Okay, so then if you're making a statement about mary Birthing god and flesh, right? Right. Okay, so then we have to have a basis by which your statement is being buttressed I can say that no, she was not She was not Uh of special and rank and being above any other human being because the scripture doesn't teach that matter of fact Mary's own words and what I had cited i'm not really sure if you remember me citing it But I cited in luke's gospel She said that jesus was her savior and she called herself a bond slave So how are you a bond slave and higher ranked in the apostles and the prophets? And they call themselves bond slaves too, by the way, she said that she said that out of humility as Out of humility, which is right and us catholics would interpret her her Her statement there as being out of a rightful humility to the position of christ and her understanding of the position of christ Having been so close to him and so intimate during his lifetime. So she said the right thing But as we interpret mary, we interpret if if you're mary If you're mary and you were given a message straight from the from from the angel straight from god that you're going to bear The the salvation of man the the salvation the one true Son god christ Of course, of course you're going to Of course, you're going to exalt christ in a way that says You know what this ain't me But us to look at mary in our position like me today as rois white I have to look at mary and understand that just from a from a canonical sense God chose her makes her unique and not only did he choose her uniquely. She is the mother of christ That's a special position by any standard. Well, nobody no one is this Nobody's No one is disagreeing with the fact that she that she is the mother of christ because the scriptures make that clear Where you and I are contending is that you're making statements that you can't prove in scripture So if we're again, do we have it? Okay, so I chose her to bear But god chose a donkey To speak to belam that doesn't mean anything. He could choose whoever he wanted. He god chose a wall to write To write his to write his review when you know, no stop stop When you go to compare a donkey and a human being you've already bastardized. No, I'm giving analogies. No, no, no, you don't No, no, no, don't try and get technical. I'm not getting it. No, no, no, rois. I'm not getting technical You go technical and then you go rois rois rois rois the operative word you said was chosen donkey to a human being No, what I'm what I'm giving you are examples. You said that god chose her That's not a good example. Well, it's an example. We talking about the context. No, but it's a bad example It's not because of no the bad example is you don't have scripture to support your point You can't put donkeys. You can't put donkeys on the same level. Royce. Royce. What I'm saying to you is this You certainly can't put a donkey on the same level with rois. Royce. I'm not equating a human being to a donkey What I mean, what I'm doing though. Don't tell me that. Royce. No, I did not. No, I did not What I'm saying to you is this I'm saying that god can choose to you to play the tape bag Oh, yeah, we definitely can you can have a copy of it. I just told you for me on witlock You got the tape Yeah, well, you Listen, this is what you said, bro. You can you can take this video. Listen, you can take this video Wait a second. You can take the video and run it how you want to run it. All I'm saying to you is this Let me see if I understand what you said. Let me see if I understand what you I'm gonna ask you back. I'm gonna replay exactly what you said because I'm sure go ahead This kind of regard here Royce. Go ahead You said to me you asked me What scripture is there to say that Mary Is unique or Mary is in a in a special position Yes And then you and then I went on to say the scripture is plain She was chosen to bear Christ And then you said in immediate response to that Well, Christ, what the bible also says that god chose a donkey. That's not all I said That's not all I said. That's not all I said. That's not all I said. I asked you for scripture And you have not no no Royce. I asked you for scripture that that proves your point that she is put on a hot You didn't you didn't you said we this what you said you said we You said we interpret. So now the we is the capital No, we don't interpret the scripture says god chose Mary to bear Christ Show me in the scripture where she's at a higher. That's her unique Show me. No, but that's how you said you said that she is in a higher. Is your mother unique Is my mother unique how in what way? Is your mother unique to you? To me the issue you said is no, no, I'm asking unique how is your no Is your mother unique to see oh, there's no there's no other barber robbers like her. No, there's no other barber robbers Okay, so My point is this And it does Matt see this is another thing that I'm still waiting on scripture though This is another thing that gets misconstrued is is this sort of This sort of like alien Non-individual personal relationship with god not intimate relationship with god thing This is the intellectualizing of Protestantism that has plagued a lot of a lot of christian institutions And we could get the catholics in a minute because the rome catholic church isn't without it's uh, it's heresy and And and corruption and so on and so forth, but here I'll say this When you go to say Oh, my mother isn't the question my mother see you're bastardizing what what the sacrifice actually not not you're deflecting rice No, I'm deflecting no Because I'm still waiting on the scripture, but this is why I made the comment I made about slapping you out of all with all due respect It wasn't it's not it's not a raw rod thing. It's not a tough guy act when people start off questions By saying it's a yes or no answer When you tell another man that he has to answer a question in the yes or no You're bastardizing another man. You haven't been talking How am I how am I bastardizing? I'm telling you how no, no, I'm not if you have no, I'm not if I if I ask you If you go, I got all night. I'm not in a rush. That's fine. That's fine. So let me finish and then you could go Well, I'm just I'm just responding to your statement because now you try my statement's not done But you but you you you were defending you were defending your disrespect though, bro You're defending your disrespect. You're defending your disrespect. My statement's not done You don't tell another man how to answer a question. Well, I just did And that's and what I was telling you is when you do that. It's a sign of disrespect How you're telling me respect to you Royce No, I'm gonna tell you how because a lot of you guys who talk on the internet got this bad I'm gonna tell you how so that when you're actually in the real world, you don't real world What do you mean by real world Royce when you're not on the internet talking in a vacuum? I I talk like this all the time. What are you talking about? We'll never talk like that in front of me. I can't see that and what does that mean? What does that mean Royce? We was having a conversation now you all in your feelings over what? No, no, it's not emotion I'm okay. So then what you're talking about when you started when you start a question By telling another man how he has to answer the question It's treating another man like he's a child or like he's less than you Like you've already made the decision in your mind and you're giving him a fixed box to answer a question That's disrespect where I'm from. I don't know where you're from. I'm from Detroit. I'm from Detroit Are you from Detroit? Yeah, what up though? What up though midway? I'm from the midwest. What up though? See where I grew up you couldn't tell another you couldn't ask another man a question and say Royce you 31 years old, bro. You're 31 years old. I'm 50. I'm 52. What are you talking about, bro? Then you should have learned this. No, no, no No, because how you talking? Hold on man that got that wrong. Listen. Listen, Royce. Listen, Royce You're the one a 70 year old man who don't have sacred honor. Royce. There's a lot of 70 year old men who get disrespectful with their mouth Royce, Royce, Royce If we're talking right now, right? We're talking about right now. I'm talking about in the chat in the chat regardless. Whatever if you You told me yes or no answer. Yes or yes or no answer. Don't tell me how to answer Yes or no answer. Tell me how to answer. Okay. So if I ask you so it wouldn't bother me because I'm not in my feelings about that I'm not in my feelings about that. It doesn't be different. You ask me Royce it'd be no different Royce Royce Royce. It'd be no different if you ask me and Royce It'd be no different if you asking me. Are you a man? Yes or no? Yes. I'm a man First of all, don't hold on. Wait a minute. Stop. Stop You're trying to wait. Wait. Now you're trying to equate the Basis I was talking about the vibrato, bro. I mean because now you're in your feelings Now you're trying to equate. So you think the question you asked me is as plain and simple as It is. It is a plain and simple answer. It was a plain and simple answer. Do you remember what I asked you? Do you even remember what you asked? You tell me Because you don't want to offend you. No, no. You tell me what I'm showing you is that you run off with your mouth with potential Royce. Hey Royce. Hey Royce. Hey Royce. You don't even remember what you asked me. Royce. Royce. Then enlighten me. Remind me what I said. Go ahead Because if you saw offended by what I said then tell me. Go ahead. You asked me Do you ask me what position the Roman Catholics hold Mary in? Yes Okay, and then you said it's a simple. Yes or no answer There's nothing simple. I said I said was she called me. I said do you believe that she's co-mediatrix and co-redemptrix? That's what I asked you right and what I say. Yes or no. That's what I said. Yes or no There is nothing simple About the interpretation of Jesus Christ's mother and why she was selected. There's nothing simple about that Number one, and it certainly Stop it certainly isn't as simple as you asking the question of whether or not i'm a man or a woman That's a conflation. It's not conflation. What's conflation? You haven't answered my question You know, what? No, Royce Royce It's all the intelligence of your audience Royce Royce nobody in my audience is being insulted other than you because I asked you a super question No, they are No, so now you so now you're insulting their intelligence. So now you're insulting their intelligence So let's get back to let's get back to mary. Let's get back to mary. Do you have a scripture? Do you have one scripture that shows that mary is above my god to bear Christ? Is she above the prophets is i'm asking what you give me the scripture? Please I just say she's above the prophets. I'm saying she's in a unique position You said that she was above the prophets. No, she was above certain She was she was chosen above other human beings. You say she was above Other you want to retract your statement. Do you want to retract your statement? Not specifically certain prophets. No, I mean who was she? She is she is unique. Who was she above? You said she's above. She is unique You said she's above. Are you are you trying to retract your statement? Okay, she's not above. She's above certain human beings. Yes She's above what kind of what in what way? She's above many human beings. She was the mother of christ How was she above? How is the sinner chosen to bear? She was chosen to give birth to christ Okay, so so being above being above and being and being given favor are two different things Highly favored that's what remember if she was if she was called being highly favored Andrew called her highly favored, but it didn't he didn't he didn't put her above another human being What's lowly favored? What do you mean? What's lowly favorite? What's the opposite of high in order? Whoa? Whoa? In order to have a lowly favorite. This is highly favored. It's nothing. Just like you said she was chosen She was chosen. That was it higher favorite has to be by not not in the context not in the context that the angel was speaking to Mary She said now you're going to context Well, that's all i'm giving you Royce Royce Royce all i'm giving you is all i'm giving you a context Bro, you can do that to a bunch of royce Royce. If we're gonna have a conversation Royce Royce you give me your context. Let me ask you let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question Let me this is a simple highly favor. What's the opposite of that? Like i said if we're talking about the context with the angel what the angel was talking to Mary or favored lower She was she would not favor there. That'd be the opposite of that That'd be that'd be the opposite of that versus not favored or lower leaf. I said that would be the opposite of that She'll be not to be unfavorable. She'd be unfavorable. What's the opposite non-favorite? Okay, and would you say that those people are so non-favorite non-favorite? Everybody who's not highly favored has no favor Okay, Royce. Listen answer the question. No, because that I can't even answer that question Is everybody who isn't highly favored not favored at all or is there somewhere else? Is there another degree in there? There's no degrees when there are people who have lower favor than Mary according to god There are people who have lower favor than other people who were highly she was she was she was highly favored among women That's what the text says Okay, but it does not put her it does not put her above human beings because she said herself that she is a sinner Are other women not human beings? Royce I'm not understanding how you're not grasping what I just asked what I just made a statement on I just told you I just told you that this woman Who we both agree was chosen by who we both agree Listen listen who we both agree was chosen by god, but I'm not your place of worship have a 501c 3 taxes instead I don't know what my place of worship because I don't I don't go to that church anymore What's your next question last church have a 501c 3 taxes instead? Don't know What does that even know? Hey Royce you're not interested in that Royce Royce what I'm interested in what I'm interested in is a spiritual matters 501c 3 is not going to put me in heaven and hell Royce a Royce a Royce Royce while your worship institution is selling out to the government Royce See you you want to talk about you want to talk about politics? That's fine, but that's not taking it to the real well, you're not no You're not because you have yet you have yet to talk about the issue that you hear the majority of the woke lgbtq churches What what denomination does it doesn't come out of? worse, I don't care what I don't care I don't care what denomination they come up Royce a Royce Royce what we're talking about Royce what we're talking about is what you came on for rome catholic church and christianity, right? You conflate rome Well, what god are you talking about? We don't have we don't have the same god. We don't have the same god Yeah, I know you would say that. Well, I'm saying what the scripture says if you if you're not saying what the scripture says Okay, so let me ask you about for the for the record for your a Royce Royce favorite or not Royce for the record for the record. How is a person saved? Through through jesus christ that give me give me this give me the give me the plan of salvation I don't have to give you more than that through jesus christ That's not telling me anything jesus christ is out through grace. What must I do to be saved? What must I do to be saved? Yeah You must earn god's grace Earn it Oh, absolutely Oh, so that so you believe in grace by works No, I just said you know grace. You just said earn. You just said earn grace by works. You just said earn Through faith How do you earn grace? Okay, if you have do what's the difference between faith and non-faith You said you earn it. Can you show me a scripture that I earned faith earned you a faith Put you in position to be Judge and enter paradise Yes So grace in that context. I would say earn is is I was using earn in the context of faith How do I in the context of deeds? How do I earn it? faith How do I earn faith? No, I don't say you earn faith you through faith you can earn grace Or through faith you can receive grace How do I get that? What do you mean? How do you get it? Just simple question. How do you get it? You said I earned it, right? I just said how you get it faith You said you said I earned it. I'm not in the internet business of of interpretation I'm not I'm not listen. I'm listen. You came on the live. You wanted to come on the live Okay, but that's the wrong answer because you didn't give me any scripture for that Okay, so where's the scripture? Where's the scripture that supports your point? That's your business. That's not my life. Why why draw me into that? You can't draw me into that. So can I ask you a question then? Why are you here? I thought we were having a conversation. So I mean, I'm confused here, bro You made a bunch of you made a bunch of false claims improve me wrong by scripture If you say you're a christian then the bible should be our standard, right? You didn't make a scriptural claim about catholics you made a cultural claim about them How I make a cultural claim you just made the statement yourself cultural claim about the normal practices and beliefs of everyday catholics That wasn't true. What bible do you read Royce? King James version Okay, can you show me in the king James That salvation is merited by my good that salvation comes through christ No, that salvation is earned by faith through good works No, I I never said that you never said that salvation is earned No, I didn't I said it's earned through faith How do you earn that? It's earned by faith How do I earn faith you want to make a point about works and and bryce and and deeds and all I already said that I didn't agree with bryce and on that. Okay, so so if you don't agree with bryce and on that Grace grace is what grace is what gives you salvation. Okay, so it's grace earned Oh grace is received Okay, by what? By judgment by judgment Absolutely. Yeah, what judgment what judgment is that what god's judgment? And what is he judging me on? But what I do faith But what I do I said faith Faith in what? In in god in christ. Okay, so if you're saying that even that line of question right there. How you do that How am I doing? That's weenie stuff, bro. I don't know how much if we're talking to me, bro If we're talking if we're talking. No, but no, you're trying to you try to create a little gotcha situation for your viewers Royce Royce Royce Royce the gotcha has already been Royce Royce Royce the gotcha has already been stopped Do that in Detroit. I mean I'm from Detroit. What you talking about? I'm not Where you live now that that has nothing to listen where you have nothing to do with the conversation We have right now. No, bro. It does. No, it don't because you Why why do that in Detroit? Listen, bro. Listen. Listen, Royce. You don't talk like that in Detroit I know Royce Royce. Listen, bro. Listen. Don't talk like that. Royce You talk like that on the internet because Royce Royce You came on to get technical your 501 cp christian culture in in the west Provided you the technology that was an original heresy of the of the bible and of god That allows you to talk like this in a safe place to talk like you could have talked like that in Nazareth Royce Royce talk like that anywhere anybody serious Royce. You in a safe place. You know, you in the confines your own home, right? Yeah, no, but I talk like this. Nice scenery though. That's the nice scenery Nice scenery. I mean like this everywhere. I am and so do I No, you don't I'm I'm saying you don't Royce Royce. You don't know me You just just the first time I like that in front of me Royce. And what does that mean Royce? Are you just are you threatening me, bro? No, what I'm saying is that a threat? See you you talk like a liberal white woman Wait a minute. Is this the same Royce white? That's all I can carry. Hold on. Hold on, bro. Hold on. You're the same Hold on, bro. You hold on, bro. Hold on, bro. Listen. Listen Royce Royce. Royce Are you the same? I was if you disrespected Royce Royce where you tell me how I have to answer Royce, are you the same Royce white that's on fearless? Are you the same Royce white that's on fearless? Are you never you must never watch me on fearless? I mean, I thought you're the same guy that I've been talking to Because I Not really not really. I've never I've never heard. I've never seen you make no veil threats, bro To somebody that's asking you a question Which is kind of weak. That's how I know you don't watch the show. Okay, but listen, but listen, listen I watch you know You are sometimes he do Royce grand claims about Royce that you know a little about Royce. I gave you the opportunity Royce, Royce, I gave you the opportunity to defend your point. You couldn't defend it Okay, I asked you for scripture. I asked you for scripture. You refused to give it Is it not canonical that God chose Mary? Excuse me Is it not canon that God chose Mary? Yeah, that's already been established She was highly favored. Yeah, that's what the bible says So in order to in order to have the conversation with you and to prove my point I asked you for the juxtaposition of highly favored I just told you it said non-favorite non-favorite. Oh, so everybody but she did not earn that Listen, she did not earn that though Every it was given to her. It was exactly Exactly. It was given to her. It was given to her but I asked but I asked you another question Which you got offended by I said how how am I saved? How can I be saved? And you said you earn it You don't earn it Royce. You said no sir. You said you earn it. You don't earn salvation Yeah, we're gonna play it back because you said earn it you said earn it's earned and that's earned through faith You don't earn it Royce. Yes, you do Where's the scripture? What do you mean if listen if you have faith and non-faith faith is a prerequisite Faith is clearly laid out throughout the bible as a prerequisite for grace How does now you can call it earn? You can say that it's just I'm not calling it earn Okay, what would you call faith then? What would you call it? Faith is a grace It is a gift. It is a gift that god gives. He sovereignly gives it. Oh, he chooses to save But what but does judgment play a factor? If god wants it to be if god wants to judge as he would judge us based on the standards of him I'm asking a question. Hold on. Hold on. I'm asking a question. I'm asking a question If god wants to judge us Royce He judges us about it is you want to use you want to use scripture as as your reference point And then you want to talk about interpretation like the apocrypha But then you want to use english language, but you don't want to adhere to the english language I'm I just I just you not even have the conversation. Good. Hold on. You just lost me because I'm gonna slow it down for you because I can I was I was answering your question Yeah, you might want to slow it down because you're not making any allow me to but you go right ahead Go ahead go ahead. Okay. You talk about scripture, which we know was written in a different language We know that to be true And then it was rewritten and reinterpreted in another language And then finally in english, which we most of us now that are born in this century Read it in now. Some of us go back and read it in latin and he grew in other things as well But most of us understand the bible through an english content through an english commonwealth context from a linguistic standpoint Okay, but then you don't want to adhere to what the english version or what english words in that version mean If we say judgment in english We know on the other side of judgment is either a punishment or a reward Now if you're gonna say that you are given a reward a reward can be gifted to you But if you say that there's a prerequisite for that reward, you have now earned that reward through your faith Because if not, there wouldn't be a prerequisite. God would just dish out grace With no matter what you did and that's not how it works. You're judged upon Things you do and you're judged upon your faith. We know this is script. This is scriptural And i'm assuming you don't have a scripture, right? Can you can you say it is scriptural that would you say it? Hold on. Hold on Royce Royce. I you say it because they say this know Let's ask it the reverse way. Are you denying that that's scriptural? I'm asking for the scripture to support your point. No, I'm asking I can I can go to romans for you I can go to romans for you a scripture snakes. You do the scripture snake oil thing. I know that What am I what about what am I slicking around bro? Tell me you want to go to a scripture and then give your unique individual I'm not giving. I'm not giving. I don't want to interpret. It's just I'm not giving I'm just reading what the scripture says. Are you denying what I'm saying is supported by scripture Yes, I am denying what you're saying is supported. You're denying that that grace is a Grace is given as a gift based on on judgment No Because it was based on judgment. We'll all go to him. They my argument. No, no, no Royce if it was based on the scripture Royce if it was based on judgment Royce I'm answering your question Royce Royce. I'm answering your question. If it was based on judgment None of us would be saved If it was based on God's judgment because all of us deserve wrath Right. Okay. So you can't use that one So no matter what you're doing. So wait. So wait. So no matter. So no matter What's you doing your life you get to go to the kingdom of heaven you receive grace? No, no, no, no what I do as a believer Determines my rewards, but if I'm based in my salvation, you just said rewards, right? I said as a believer Hold on. I said as a believer. I said as a believer First Corinthians three as a believer, but right outside outside of Saving faith in Christ. Do you believe that all believe useful? Wait, you said that everybody deserves the wrath even believers Of course, because we're all an atom if Romans 5 12 Right. So even the believers deserve the wrath. So how no, no, no, no believers have been delivered from wrath first That's an audience one Believers have you just said everybody deserves a wrath. I said I said if it was based on judgment If it was based on judgment alone All of us deserve wrath Okay, so so it's not based on judgment. It's not based on God. We're delineated from that through grace Say again We're delineated from the wrath by grace But the problem that I'm having with your statement Royce is this because you're attaching works Or your work was earn which is which is which is works No, no faith is a work Faith is not a work Faith is a gift. Oh, no, no, no on the humans from our end from God's end Wait, wait, wait, stop. Whoa, stop from God's end of it. Faith is a gift from the human end of it. Faith is a work It's hard We know that from scripture. That's why Jesus was tempted you keep saying scripture Royce You keep saying scripture And right Royce, I'ma hold you to it, bro If you're gonna if you're gonna say scripture I need bcb bro was jesus tempted in all points yet without sin was Was jesus tempted in all points yet without sin Was his faith tested In all points yet without sin Okay, so can you have grace? Can you receive a reward without Without work What kind of reward you're talking about is faith of work? No, it is not Not according to not according to Ephesians chapter 2 verses 8 9. Yeah, you keep saying but you see that I mean, I don't know what else to give you bro. I don't know what I mean, bro It's like it's like bro. It's like it's like I'm Tyrese. What else do you want from me, bro? What else do you want from me? You do that you got a bunch of you got a bunch of cataloged Scriptures that you can take and say this is my interpretation You keep saying my interpretation. I just gave you. Okay. Oh, okay. Royce. Do you have your bible? Go back to the original Royce Royce Royce Read the read the scripture. Okay. Royce then take take take take your king james bible Open it up scripture Go ahead the scripture that I said on Read matthew 16 18. Yeah The video you play sure read the scripture without your context and interpretate go ahead pull your bible right now What is it saying? He said and you are peter and upon this rock. I'll be my church Now don't give me your context and interpretation read it again for me. I just said it I just say read it again Read it again and thou are peter and upon this rock. I'll be my church. Yeah, and upon this rock I will build my church. And what is it this? What is the antecedent of that? Upon this rock. I don't see there you go with the contents So are you allergic to context, bro? No, what I'm saying is I hate what people say let's go to scripture and read it word for word verbatim And then you got to give me your context Hold on. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hold it. I'm in the audacity of you to actually believe that Wait a minute. Wait a minute. But you the one you think you have a more sound interpretation Wait, but hold on Royce. The biblical scripture then Saint Thomas Aquinas Royce, you're the one Royce, you're the one Royce, you're the one that quoted Matthew 16 18 in response to Bryson Gray and him dissing trump Isn't that not context No, that was no, no, no, no, wait No, no, that's not what I did. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop it. It had nothing to do with trump You the one that mentioned him it had to do with christians all across this country playing a game With their christianity where they need a christlike figure to follow in politics and give themselves an out While the lgbtq takes their kids schools the context they say, oh, but I don't teach my kid that Why don't why don't all these 501c3 christian lutherans and baptists? Why don't they all homeschool their children? Royce, why do you keep bringing in 501c3? I'm not understanding why that what does that have to do? What does tax exemption status have to do with your sins being? Hold on. I'm asking what is what is 501c3? What does 501c3 had to do with your soul is what i'm asking I will tell you go right in Okay, I know I know 501c3 was was salvific. I will tell you. No, it's not salvific, but what it is is it's it's become uh It's become a way for the church or the the institutions that claim to to worship christ Sell out to their government their federal government. That's what it's done And in the 501c3 taxes and status it outlines plainly That you can't be christian or that you can't bear witness rebuke and refute It says that explicitly now and in the 501 you can go for your viewers and pull up the 501c3 taxes and status qualification and criteria from the federal government and you can see how All of what it outlines makes it impossible For many 501c3 christian institutions who had that status to speak with a full throat like Jesus would do About many political issues and the the excuse is well our salvation has nothing to do with politics or the government anyway, but satan Who is the whose this is his dominion the earth The the earth is his dominion satan has made it increasingly hard for you to live a life Up like christ or in a christian way because of these institutions And my only question is if we're so christlike, why do we still take all the material gain that this 501c3? sectarian government provide us If we want to be christlike and we have a problem with the lgbtq and homosexuality, which i'm sure many of your viewers do Why do we even send our kids to to school anymore? Why don't we just teach them at home like they used to do in the in the days of christ actually They actually taught their kids at home So why don't we do see i don't like cherry pickers? That's my problem and i have a wide enough view of politics and faith because i'm i'm i'm out there like that i'm a little crazy I have a wide enough lens on it that i can see many 501c3 christians including catholics That have no problem reaping the material benefits Of their 501c3 tax status, but they want to talk about profanity But then they want to talk about the nuances of scripture and and mary versus peter versus moses versus abraham versus Hagar versus but the whole while you're taking the 501c3 even the public schools This has become commonplace in our country and i'm not i'm not i'm not naive to it And you know what even furthermore i'm not looking for fans. I'm not looking for followers I don't care about that. I'm just bearing witness now if you can tell me With a full throw that what i'm saying about this 501c3 tax system status Doesn't come to bear on the faith practice and worship of christians in this nation Then you either don't know about the 501c3 tax status or you probably are in on it And there are a lot of christians who are in on it I do know about i do know about that and i do know that there are there are more churches You just asked me what it had to do with salvation It doesn't have anything to do with salvation It only has it only has something to do with salvation if you're using that as the means by which a person can be saved through I'm not saying that there are churches that are being are being Can you be saved if you take the lord's name of vain? Well, now now you're dealing with another issue. Um, you talking about as a pattern of life Absolutely. Oh, no, nobody can be safely delivered in sin What i'm telling you is that when the fible when you when you're practicing and worshiping christian and you have you have given over Much of your faith practice and worship and christian identity to a institution a place of worship and you follow a pastor or a preacher or or a priest At a 501c3 institution You are connected to that institution and you are connected to the Would you would you agree that much of what makes the catholic roman catholic scandal of pedophilia? A sin of omission or a sin by um A sin of omission not commission It can be both. They knew about that. It could be both people knew Both, okay. Well, it could be both, but it could be both, right? Yeah, but my point Yeah, but my point i'm telling you all i'm saying to you is When you take the christian identity and you and you wield it out in the public As a as a signal of virtue, that's fine, but it better be ironclad You better not be at the instrument at the congregation on sunday where they got a 501c3 tax exempt status And they're bringing homosexuals into the into the congregation and they're saying that this is all fair game You better not be you better not be the one who is who is ministering through a 501c3 tax exempt See, this is this is the spiritual pride that i'm talking about We're not even playing in the 12 dimensions as satan plays in He's co-opted and got a bunch of christians who actually are probably well intended Christians, I mean, they're probably generally well intended But he went the bet he went the back way on you he went around the back door He said, you know what? I don't have to get you to sin personally. I'm just going to co-opt the whole church How does that work? Again I know that there are churches uh roice that have it's like it's like 85 percent of churches Yeah, that's fine. But but you know what but you know what god, but god has some it's like the basic practice in the mirror Yeah, but but god has a remnant and so i'm speaking i'm speaking a remnant was render under Caesar. What is Caesar's? Okay, but that as long as it's not causing him to sin No, it's it's a sin by omission Well, again, we're i'm not see you keep bringing up the 501 c3 joint I'm talking to you Regarding the basic thing in american christian culture. Okay, but but the 501 c3 Is not the issue by which I brought you on now again. I will tell you this I appreciate the Catholic Church is in on it. You won't talk about the thousands Listen, I have not listen listen roice. I understand that. I know that You're proud of sin and catholic are You brought me on because you wanted me to say a thing that you thought I would say no no no no no no no No, I brought I brought you now who you think I am because what you said about what I say on jason's No, wait wait I brought you on because you you you accepted my invitation But I had I had kept because you said I wasn't a christian because i'm catholic. That's ridiculous No, I no I said you're not a christian I know a little bit more about the christian culture in this country than you do obviously with the 501 c3 status What is it? Hold on. Hold on. Do you know the 501 c3 wasn't in the in the first century, right? What do you mean? That's what I said. You keep talking about the 501 c3 The early church the early church the early church didn't rely on the government to do anything for them Other than leave them alone. Oh, and it sucked in that but my point my point to you is that I know Okay, so my point to you is this I can care less about the 501 c3 because they had nothing to do with my faith in christ now now Okay, well and listen listen when I pass to the church, we weren't 501 c3 Okay, we weren't we were house church Okay, now that's great. Uh, right. So so Praise to god So I understand I understand The the underpinnings of those kinds of things when you have these stipulations Then the point I brought you on right I brought you on because the statements that you made on jason with lock And what and what bryce and great but notice knows what I didn't do I didn't make statements about you and didn't tag you bruh I tagged you On purpose. I tagged you because I want to have a conversation with you. So again Okay, so so and I'm willing to have a conversation and guess what I even I don't dislike I don't know you I don't dislike you all I'm saying where I'm from If if if I'm a man and you're a man and you say something that I feel disrespectful like in detroit And we have a squabble we could be best friends after that all I was telling you in the chat is when you start off a question It could be a very uh a very genuine question when you start a question off and you tell another man How he has to answer That is a form of disrespect. That's that's telling you another man. I'm your master I'm gonna tell you how you need to think and talk. That's all I was saying we can talk Okay, so let me let me let me back on let me let me pause it time crunch Let me let me pause let me pause it in another way. Let me pause it in another way You have been in court. Okay. You have been you have been in court Oh, do you talk the you the center qua non of heresy the american? Have you have been in court? Yes, I have. Okay. You ever been uh interrogated Yes, I have I'm not gonna ask you to have a record. I ain't gonna ask you to have a record No, I don't okay. So so so when being interrogated when being interrogated Yeah Do you do you talk to them the same way you're talking to me now? Oh, yeah, I talk I talk this way in the court many times. Yeah Anyway, and they just let it slide No, they they they warned me that I would be held in contempt. Exactly So so it's not that they're taking what was the way to answer your question They're taking the Lord's name in vain too. But no, no, no, no at the point at the point the context I know the big c word again. I'm using c word the context of this discussion you and I haven't As you said if you was on the street, this and this and this and this. Okay, well, bro You in a court of law Bring that same energy to the judge bring that same energy to the lawyer We're not in a court of law. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no So so then so then you have more respect For what somebody can do to you Then for what somebody you think can't do nothing to you i.e. me I'll bring it down. I bring the cookies down. I bring the cookies down. No, no, I can answer you Okay, so all I'm saying is is that the same the same energy that you got That you've been having on this live No, the same energy that you have been having on this live about me this I'm from the trauma from the truck all that kind of stuff. Okay, fine Then why did you have that same energy when you stand before them white folk? I do You did Yeah, when I when I was in you made the same threats to them you made the same threats to them in court When I was interrogated the one time when I was interrogated by a detective one time and they they sat across from me and they told me I'm going to go out of my way to prove that you did this crime Which they ended up coming back and saying that they didn't charge me with the crime and they couldn't Prove that I had anything to do with this. I was 18 at the time by the way That's why I'm just I'm just saying you're just making the car. I'm just I'm just being transparent But the the investigation was carried out and they ended up charging They didn't charge me with with the crime and they couldn't prove that I had anything to do with it Because I didn't which I told them Um, but no, I did tell I did tell the detective 100 I told the detective if you weren't wearing that badge You wouldn't talk like that If you want to if you weren't wearing that badge, I slapped the shit out of you I said that Okay, and they threatened to arrest me for threatening an officer and I said well go ahead I said go ahead, but you know, but you've got to also play that tape back that you just basically, um Convicting me of a crime before I've been proven guilty in court of court of law. What is that? How was that? Oh No, the cops. Yeah, okay. Okay. Okay. I got you guys. Okay. So, so But I said it I said it in conjunction with this because you were also making a you were also Formulating a question in a way where the the the answer was already predetermined Well, because it still is because I know you see how the court you see how it correlates the way I talk to them And the way I talk to you, but but I don't mean everywhere But here's what here's what I here's what I would assume Here's what I would assume and know to be true about you though, too. Don't race I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure You would not have the same energy if you were sitting before judges and stuff And you knew that they had the power and the authority to put you away No, I've actually I actually you don't know me. I'm just saying I'm just I'm the dude who would stand up in the courtroom And and and shout the whole courtroom down for sure. Okay. Yeah when it's when it's appropriate But also I want to say that in many cases and this this would this may be a This may may give a lot of insight Out of all the courtrooms. I've ever been in I've never had a judge tell me how I need to answer Well, so I've never been I've never been in that position actually to but but but they but they are they are courtroom I mean as a matter of fact, you have attorneys and you have courts of law that say either yes or no No, even though even though you may not court of court have not experienced that And it does not mean that's a gross and I think that's a gross misuse of the law and the court system And I would say that in the court, but that may that may be your opinion But that does not make you to use it on the street is totally unacceptable Because number one, you're not a court, but number two, I wouldn't we not on it, but we're not on the street But we're not on the street No, we're yeah, we are we're not in the court. There's only a court in the street in your example Right. So but my point is is that you're saying you in the public. Okay. Let's say in the public Okay, but even but even then Making statements like that can still be be considered as a threat as well, too. Don't worry. So just like trying What do you what statement exactly when you were saying if you were if we if you were you and I would face the face You wouldn't say this you wouldn't say that that's that's that's a veil threat, bro That's a veil threat because you don't know what I mean And you don't know what I would do I'm giving my opinion on what I'm right and I'm getting and I'm giving you my opinion based on fact You don't know what I would do giving my opinion on what I would accept as respect or not In vice versa, but nobody can predict the future. I'm not I agree with that But all I'm saying but all I'm saying is but all I'm saying to you is this you got offended an opinion about Bryson Same way you gave no, no, no, no, I'm not giving opinion about Bryson I gave I gave I gave statements that he made and and in contra distinction to the scriptures that he claims to hold He denies and so I'm asking you on record because you said that you said it in the comics I didn't see it. So forgive me if I didn't so I'm asking you now Not answer this question already, but yeah I didn't hear you. So my pleasure. Okay. Okay. Okay. So Bryson gray says That jesus christ is not god He's just god's son My question. I don't agree with I don't agree with that. Okay If you don't agree with that and many catholic, but to be to be to be clear it is not a it is not a Widely held catholic belief in any way or a traditional catholic belief that jesus is not god We believe in a trinitarian god 100 percent. Okay. So if a person denies the triune godhead are they a christian? Okay, let's let's get to this now. Here's what I'll say. Sure. Okay. This is another problem that I have Why do we spend so much? Listen, okay, let's just cut through all of the We are living in a world where we are faced with and don't get me wrong I feel the spirit of what you're saying because the enemy within is just as dangerous as the enemy at your Outside your gates. So I understand I understand the spirit of what you're trying to say and do but here's my problem Give me the person who believe who at least Professes the name of jesus christ And and may be misguided may be misinterpreted may have May be wayward may be may be off the path in their individual journey with faith or understanding Give me that person Before you give me a judge Who's completely anti god but makes you swear before a bible or even worse A chinese dictator who has those judges on his payroll And that's what we were talking about in the discussion that you referenced between Bryson jason and I around the trump indictment and what bryson was talking about in that specific piece Uh was basically that he couldn't find himself to support trump Because of all these inconsistencies with his christian worldview. I know And and and what i'm saying is I have a lot of this i'm way further right than donald trump is I'm way more over on the christian side of things than donald trump is But at the same time we have to understand the situation we're in And there are matters of the spiritual and eternal and then there are matters of the world And my point is a lot of again i'll use the term 501c3 christians Have abnegated all of their worldly responsibilities or duties or or or let's just say um their worldly Their their their worldliness and and It's if you want to now here's the catch to that if you want to be a devout christian I mean devout like in the way some of our muslim brothers are devout And you want to resign yourself from the world all together and say it's all about faith and spirit Then go ahead and do that. I'm not saying that's a bad way to go about it But what I am saying is don't drive But uh catalac escalate and have an iphone and go to a church where they're woke lgbtq and then say it's all about faith It's not about politics. Come on, bro. You just reaping the rewards and then trying to hedge your bed I'm not going for that. So right seek first the kingdom of god Okay, so his righteousness and all these things will be added, don't you that's So you so yeah, so you quote Matthew 6 33 Okay, but you you still didn't answer my question and then you made another statement about muslim being brothers I'm gonna ask you this question. Are you mean brothers in an anthropomorphic sense? Anthropological sense. No, I mean brothers in the abrahamic sense So you so you believe that muslims Are our brothers in the faith as well as christians and catholics not in christianity, no But there are brothers in the abrahamic faith. Yeah Okay, so again Are you saying that and they would be another group? They would be another group like brison who I have strong disagreements with on their On their their details and nuance of scripture and and their theology. No doubt. Yeah, I had disagreements with muslims So, okay, so muslims god is who? Allah Allah and jesus are not the same And they believe that jesus is not christ, right? So how can it be our brother that he is the penultimate messiah, but but he's not god They don't believe me. He is god, but not god. That's right. Right. So then how can it be our brothers? According to matt according to matthew 12 wait wait wait every knee will first off if we're gonna go to scripture Yeah The messiah can't even come until all the gentiles believe Right believe in who? Believe in christ. Exactly. So how do how are more Muslims? I'm gonna answer you The if you believe that revelation and that the bible Prophesizes the end result When they say every knee will bow and every tongue will confess At that point when every knee does bow and every tongue confesses would those people not be our brothers at that point Not all of no No, no wait No, the ones who bow the ones who's knee who bow the knee and confess with the tongue at that point in time In the future which we believe because scripture is is is rock solid And we believe the outcome and result of the scripture at the time where the knees bow and the tongues confess With those muslims who bow the knee and confess with the tongue not be our brothers Confess with the tongue of that what that jesus christ is lord after just lord and savior that jesus christ is lord and savior They would do that going to judgment into hell But just because a person confesses that jesus christ is lord according to philippians chapter 2 Verses 3 through 5 He says yes every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that is not that is not by volition That is by sovereign authority Because now it is like I agree. Okay, so that but that does not make them our brothers in a salvific sense and neither and again No, no wait wait wait wait christians are not Whoa some of our brother wait wait hold on hold on go ahead My brother my biological brother could end up in hell right And even if and even if and even my my brothers of the abraham See, this is what i'm this is what you this is the this is the detail and nuance that people get caught up in and And it it it's kind of arrogant You know it kind of bastardizes god and christ because I actually believe that christ when christ comes back It's not going to be hard when when christ comes back and he he presents himself in the way that is prophesized It's not going to be hard for many of those devout muslims who have a very devout faith practice Maybe misguided and have scriptural inconsistency with our beliefs, but it's not going to be hard But you're saying scriptural inconsistency. It's not a scriptural inconsistency. It's heresy They don't believe in the same god that that christians believe in No, they don't believe in the interpretation of the trinity But it's not just the interpretation What does jesus No, it's not what what what does jesus say? He makes it clear who he is and the triumph god always existed in eternity He also makes it clear and the bible makes it very clear that people will not believe the last time jesus made it clear That's why he's coming back Right, but they're not but they're not but the bible already the bible already explains for this So why would you spend a lot of time? take Here's the reason why here's the reason why I spend a lot of time is number one. I'm a pastor Number two number two. My mission is to evangelize my mission. I was just too Are you worried about a lot of people becoming muslim overnight? No, i'm worried about people dying and going to hell And not necessarily worried, but i'm concerned. I'm concerned about what you're saying that people becoming muslim means that they're dying and going Yeah, yes, i'm saying i'm i'm using it in a global sense. My concern is anyone dying without christ But the 501c3 christians, well listen, you keep bringing up 501c3. I'm bringing i'm bringing up scripture Don't get him mistaken. There's a bunch of 501c3 muslims, too. Listen, i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure there's a bunch of The puritan-saudi deal just showed that I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of all of them, but none of that has to do None of that has to do but the 501c3 jews too But none of that has to do with a person being saved But it has everything to do with how they are now Deciding how they want their message to go out. That's another issue from another point And when you're saying that muslims are our brothers They're not my brother. They're not my brother My brothers are according to matthew chuckham quay See when you say that But when you say that i can see the fear in your eyes and there's a rightful fear to have What's it? I don't have no fear. What am i? What do i do? What am i fear? No, you do you you think if you build up the if you build up this intellectual structure that you can go out and repeat in the public That that's gonna that that's gonna cover you for the lack of your own faith, but it right rice rice rice Hold on rice. Let me let me explain to you. It won't do rice rice. Let me explain to you. Let me explain to you What I believe you think you think there are no wait. Let me be clear You think there are no there are no muslims or jews who will enter the gates of heaven Not if they reject christ Not if they not if they don't not if they do not accept what they with the bible says about You're gonna decide so now you you're gonna decide. I'm not deciding anything. Royce. No, yeah, you're getting close You say that you would know right here's the thing the dip between you and me. I'm giving scripture and you giving me subjectivity Listen, Royce Royce Royce if you decide at the moment Royce Royce no, no no no no In a muslim man's fine. Royce Royce. Hold on. You ask the question and i'm finishing you ask the question and i'm finishing it if a if a person if a muslim Jehovah witness or mormon a hindu uh, uh As a matter of fact a moralist anyone on this terra firma that rejects The work that christ did on that cross By the way and jesus ain't still on the cross. That's another issue that we muslims don't reject the work you did on the cross Uh, they do they don't believe he's god. They reject his metaphysical. They do not believe he's god They do reject but wait you i'm using the words you used You said anybody who rejects the work you did on the cross listen and as as god and human and human flesh They reject his deity. They reject his divinity. Do not believe he came from the father I'm sorry specific though. I just said it. That's that's all encompassing if you reject if you reject in who jesus is You're checking everything. He is muslims do not reject the work christ did on the cross They read yes, they do if they don't in fact age. They explicitly exalt listen. They do not they do not Except they do not believe in the trinity. We know we know that okay, so wait a minute But wait a minute They deny the trinity they deny his deity So how how was that mixing? No, they mean he's the panalt. Yeah, they say he's the penultimate prophet Right. That's not that that's not it. I don't get a man I'm sorry. That doesn't get them in Okay, well, how many christians matter fact jesus matter fact jesus said who do how many christians who exalt his deity and his Who exalt his deity and his sacrifice? How many of those are getting there? I'm okay. Let me show you say you said how many christians exalt his deity and his sacrifice All of the how many christians who who acknowledge christ as the trinitarian god And as as as the penultimate prophet or the the the the messiah, how many of those christians are getting in all of them Uh anyone who has placed their faith and trust in jesus christ What does that mean? I'm glad you asked. Thank you. Here's what it means. It means number one I recognize That apart from myself. I can't be saved on my good works Roman chapter three roman chapter four. Okay. It also means that I must Repent but I can't repent unless it is given to me from the father repentance is a gift I have to recognize that I am a sinner who deserves repent. Whoa is repent. Is repentance not a d? No, repentance is a gift act chapter 10 repent is see, well, okay Well, maybe we're getting a maybe we're getting our wires crossed on lexicon here because you're using the english language I don't I don't I don't know where you're going to know you metanoia metanoia Repentance is an action, isn't it? Repentance is a gift. It's a turning from sin to christ when you repent You said I must when you say I must do something. I'm commanded. I'm commanded to repent I'm commanded to repent when you just when you do something. It's a choice It's a god gives me god gives me the ability to do what you said you do it. You say what I'm commanded I'm commanded to repent. So I must repent. It's a command I know apart you won't you won't you Won't you obey the command? That is the choice that is by grace only by grace. It's I obey it because god has given me the ability to do it But it is a choice Because god has given me the ability to do it apart from myself I would hold up. Okay, so apart from myself, I would never be true apart but rest apart from myself. I would never choose christ never No man apart from apart from yourself apart from apart from the saving grace of god, I would never Choose christ apart from gods. Grace, you would never choose christ exactly never not apart from yourself Thank you. Now apart from the saving grace of God, I would never, in and of myself, in and of myself, I would never choose Christ. Never. Ever. Okay. So now, repentance is a gift. Acts 10. Yes. No doubt. I'm commanded to repent and believe. No, I would say it this way to refine it more. I would say repentance is a gift. I would say repentance is a choice of man's free will and faith. I would say the ability to repent is a gift and grace. There's a difference. Yes, that's wrong though. That's not what the Bible says about what man's supposed to do. Okay. I mean, I would ask you for scripture, but I know you're not going to give it to me. Yeah, I would disagree. I'm just not going to play that game with you. I'm not playing the game. I mean, see, here's the thing. One thing I appreciate about what you do is... When you live in English Commonwealth Christianity, but you don't want to go by the name Let me give you your... Hold on. Right. Right. Let me give you your flowers for a second. Let me give you your flowers for a second. I must... Hold on. Right. Right. That's a choice. That's an action. That's a deal. Right. Let me give you your flowers for a second. Let me give you your flowers for a second. Topside. Okay. When it comes to political commentary, when it comes to social issues, I appreciate what you do. I can listen to you talk all day. Matter of fact, when you had Alex Jones on, I was like, dang, it was insightful. What y'all were saying was spot on, there was a few things I disagreed with that Alex had said. Nonetheless, the point was... Me too. Me too. Okay. The point was, that's your lane. That's your pocket. And I can respect that. Respectfully in this lane. This ain't your pocket, bro. This ain't your lane. You're trying to say that using the 501C3 as a moral compass or as a barometer by which a person is loyal to Christ. That ain't scripture, bro. That's really... No, that's not what I did. Did we ask you? Uh-huh. That's not what I did. No. You keep bringing up the 501C3 as though the 501C... What I'm saying is that many people that live in this country and many people that live in the Western world and in fact many people, many Christians that live all around the modern world have their faith confounded by 501C3 taxes and status that hides in the shadows and in the catacombs of the basement of their workplace of worship. That may be true, but that's not all true. No, I didn't say that you couldn't still... I didn't say that you still couldn't have faith. I didn't say that you still couldn't receive grace. I didn't say that you won't make it to heaven if you've been a part of a 501C3 Christian institution. But what I'm saying is that the Christianity and the faith practice of many Christians has taken on the form of their 501C3 Christian institutions. And I think that's true. And here's the evidence of it. This nation, America, has become a 501C3 Christian nation and it was supposed to be more than that and it certainly isn't more than that. And the reason why it's not more than that is because we are influenced by our government, we are influenced by our culture, we are influenced by politics and Satan knows that. That's why Satan takes the time to delve in and put his hands on politicians. And we see that. We actually see Satanic politicians first and foremost, but we see a spiritual norm or even spiritual normiclature that has confounded Christian living and Christian life in this country. Here's what I want to say and I'll ask you this question. Would you like to come back on this live at another time and have another discussion? Of course. Of course. Anytime. I'm going to hold you to it. All right? And then also I want you to return in favor. Of course. You can come on my podcast for sure. So is that a public invitation? Of course. Okay, cool. I'm not ducking. I'm not. No, no. I like you. I like you. You from Detroit. See, look, I'm not dissing you, but I'm telling you. You from Detroit. I mean, for men who come from Detroit, I'm not saying I'm not making a monolith or nothing like that. But you know what I'm talking about. You from Detroit. I was in my opinion, I was just giving you a little pushback that when you talk to another man, me at least, I don't know about other men, but when you talk to another man, just don't put them in a box and tell them how they have to answer. That was my only problem. Okay. So I don't have a problem with your criticism of Bryson. I don't have your problem with your criticism of me. I surely don't have no problem with your criticism of the Catholic Church. I thought it was misrepresentation, but I don't have no problem with your criticism. But so two things, number one, I bring you back on my live. We're going to talk about the difference between Roman Catholicism and Christianity. Are they compatible? Are they in contradiction to each other? That's the good. That's going to be one thing we can talk about. All right. Secondly, I have to go back to the original point, not to one of the points that you made. Yeah, I'm from Detroit, bro. I've been in barbershops and have barbershop style conversations. You're not going to fix your face and tell me that when we talk about sports, when we talk about females, and we talk about politics or whatever. And you have Negroes talking, and I'm trying to be nice, but we have your niggas up here talking, right? Yeah. Hold on, hold on. So we talking about, we talking about Larry Holmes or whatever. We talk about Larry. We talk about Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray. And we talk about, OK, did he really want one? Did he really want one? No, no, no. Answer the question, bro. Answer the question. You going to tell me that that's going to be insulting? Come on, bro. Come on, man. You're contexting the conversation and here's another thing. Number two, you can't interpret. Go ahead. Listen, you can't interpret a chat conversation. I would rather you say, hey man, what did you mean by what you said? Because here's how I took it. You know what? On that note, then actually I apologize. Man to man, I apologize because you're right about that. When you talk online and you talk on a podcast or when I'm in the chat and I'm not there with you, because this conversations went differently, a little contentious, but for the most part we have that. We man, bro. I don't chip on it. We man. Yeah, but but but in the chat when I'm in the chat cyber, you know Texan and then you're actually talking live. That's a weird medium. So you're right I actually apologize because you know what? You were you were saying yes or no. Yes, it's different. I understand what you're saying But I will say I've actually seen barbershop debates turn into I have to I have to because they didn't it feels But and I will tell you this when I can't I grew up in the barbershop Sweeped up here in the barbershop when I was like 11 years old. No for real. Yeah, yeah barbershop for real Oh, I used to answer the phones too for the for the barbers and even at that young age That's a that's part of where I learned to kind of debate and kind of you know hold my own in that that regard But um even when I was in the barbershop as a young as a young little little tight, right? Little pop. Yeah. Yeah, just just bouncing around in there You know just watching and trying to insert my little opinion when I could and whatnot. Um I still I still would answer how I answered, you know, I wouldn't even if it was a grown man And he was and he was being you know, he was a certain himself He was being aggressive or he had his opinion or he was one of the dominant males in the in the barbershop Yeah, yeah Yeah, he was one of the alphas he couldn't tell me to answer yes or no If he asked me Kobe or Mike and he said yes or no, I wouldn't accept that's just who I am That's why I'm fit to talk about things the way I do because I don't accept any black or white answers Now if you ask me is Christ Lord and saved as we work our way up the hierarchy of questions They become more black and white But when you ask me a question about Mary and the historical significance of Mary or the metaphysical significance of Mary There's a lot of there's a lot of There's a lot in there I mean just from a historical standpoint alone the metaphysical is a whole nother can of worms and not a can of worms I don't say that but I think but I believe that that's where you and I differ in this agree And I believe it still has eternal consequences and repercussions No doubt it might but all I'm saying is if you asked me like you asked the Bryson when you asked me question about Bryson You said do you believe that Christ is God? Right? Look, I've been out there defending Jews Because I got plenty of people who are orthodox Jews and I don't agree with them on Christ Obviously, I got plenty of friends who are Muslims and I've been out there defending the Uighurs and the whole Uighur genocide The Muslims from the Chinese government and I don't agree with them on Christ obviously But if you asked so so so I'm on the record with with my with my Advocacy you could say of other religions other people's faith on general sense not because I agree But because I understand Injustice beyond my own personal faith and and what I'm saying is if you asked me a Question that I do think has a black and white answer. I'll give you a yes or no I won't take that as disrespect like when you say it Do you believe Christ is Lord and safe? Yes. That's a yes or no question But if you asked me a question that that I think needs nuance, but you forced me to ask answer yes or no I just can't accept that I Understand your point, but I'm referring to your faith as a Roman Catholic, right? because I'm looking in reading Roman Catholic dogma and if you are a Roman Catholic They make yes or no statements and questions and answers And they also and they also they also do okay, right? Okay, because they're an optimist They're listed the coming of the councils that they if you don't believe this boo boo boo Maybe may you be a curse? Okay, but bro, I mean that there's a difference. I don't take offense to it I think it's room for conversation and and even even for feisty real real real talk in debate You know even in your face conversation. I'm saying I ain't gonna get no fistic over nobody You know I'm saying about the same time I about take Noel and look and not go home to my family That ain't happening either You know I'm saying but but my point is I'm saying about about this conversation and the reason why and reason why I had this Live and I again, I appreciate you coming on is because these are the conversations Royce that must be had I Can I can still I can still disagree with you and state my point and and I believe you mentioned earlier I think you did about people being canceled up I mean, I don't think it was you I heard another free I think was another preacher heard that but but you you've seen the cancellation of people being silenced because they disagree with Oh, I'm gonna go on record and tell you right now. I hope that you let Jason know that you and I had this conversation on this Live and let that brother know man. I would like to have a conversation with him Okay, you know I'm saying Listen, I got you got more subscribers. It's this ain't about this ain't about cells with me, bro This is about right. This is about us having conversations with people for clarity and for understanding Whether I disagree or agree with you. That's that's a distant second or third My point is I want to hear what you have to say You hear what I have to say and let the people decide at the end of the day Because if I shut you down or say my man's sake was a hater. Hey, this girl You don't if we ever have a conversation why not you many you but you many people that that want to shut me out Right, I know right. So so why would you want to shut me up and shut me down because I disagree Oh, I have concerns about a person who says that they are a Christian But according to Christianity, they don't embrace the doctrines of Christianity But Jason may not be aware of that. He may not be cognizant of that and I'm saying hey, bro. Watch your six Watch your six because not everybody that's on your joint is supporting you but go ahead I'ma pass along the message for sure because I don't think Jason's trying to I don't think I don't Jason's not the kind of guy Who's who's trying to duck any conversation. I don't think he's I'm not saying that. Yeah, you know, I'm just I'm just saying I'm just saying for anybody listen. He's not trying to do that. Um, I'ma definitely pass along the message But as far as here's my take on it Many of us have been misled and misguided and probably misinformed by many religious institutions on a variety of points On a variety of of details on a variety of nuances of scripture and otherwise even when Jesus came He was literally revealing Revealing the knowledge to the high priests of the time, right? He was revealing it to the rabbis They were they were in all of his understanding and interpretation of scripture because it was it was as it was divinely clear And that what that will happen again in the second iteration the Messiah and I and I dare say that if you took the the most Renowned religious leaders across all denominations of Christianity and any Denomination of Abrahamic faith that all of those high leaders will be confounded in their interpretation of scripture when the Messiah returns He will return to set that thing straight again as he did the first time. I believe that So so but what my point is we don't know the time or place that's scriptural We don't know the time or place we weren't we were told or it was prophesized that there would be a thousand years Christendom but before You know to come What I'm what my goal is and this may not be my lane I don't claim to be a theologian I grew up a Catholic. I grew up in a Catholic church, but in many people who are Catholic or Christian or have any other denomination grew up with a plural pluralism of other Christian denominations So I grew up around Lutherans and Baptists and I grew up right down the street from the Baptist church I knew the Baptist preacher and you know, I had a you know the priest So I grew up around a variety of Christian thinking But what I will say is this and what my my warning is to you and anybody else who's listening There is a political force on the move who will not give us time to sort out These nuances these details these tough conversations that should happen theologically there is a political force on the move that has calculated our Impulse to argue about details while they plan to stop us from practicing faith in any regard Okay, and that and that is the elite in DC And that is the they're selling us out to the CCP and the European monarchies where much of this heresy stems from Not only the Roman Catholic Church, but the Anglican Church right there in the UK Right and Freemasonry and Jesuits and all these other all these other heretical institutions no doubt Darwinism Yep Darwinism all of it So I'm right there with you and look some of my scripture some of my understanding of scripture may be weak in some places I'm not I'm not I'm not running around here claiming that I'm ironclad. I don't think anybody should I would love to hear more and learn more and try and have a better perspective But but what I can say with surety is that if Christians all of those who will profess that Christ is Lord and Savior Don't tamper down our bickering and disagreements about details and arm up with the full box with the full arm of Christ Right here right now There will be a time that comes where we won't have the We won't have the the luxury of sitting here on a phone and in an office on a mic and You know in a in a in a decent-sized living room Um and have these discussions that time is coming and if you read a book like the Gulag Archipelago I know my Christians out there don't think politics is consequential, but if you read a book like the Gulag Archipelago Look at look at look at how one look at how one is forced to even reconcile or consider God in faith what we have now is a luxury that's why I jumped on the live. Oh, I agree. I totally agree I'm like ma'am this brother right here is right. We can have this discussion now, but if We don't take the political serious and in the political as a as a as a place or a Medium where we can preach the ministry where we can preach the gospel of Christ if we don't consider that Like look, I was the one the Republican Party here, Minnesota I went before the convention our congressional district convention and I asked them flat out Are we the party of God? Do we believe in God in this in this party is and and I got mixed reaction 5050 Basically, of course, you know, you got your libertarians who are like now We only got in politics. You got your Christians who are like we don't need politics in the church or whatever case may be But what I'm saying is this there's a dragon in the east that just made a Move to displace the American the United States dollar as the economic hegemony worldwide And that doesn't have all the consequence in the eternal. I get that. Yeah, but what it does say is that they will come door-to-door So whether your Christian your Christian faith may be stout It may be ironclad when I'm warning people is the times coming where it's really gonna be tested Because they will come door-to-door and they will say do you believe in Christ? And if you say yes, you will be hauled off in Carter So the time is coming when it when your faith is not gonna be professed in an internet group chat It's gonna be professed in real time at your front door. Let me let me say this and I know we got to wrap up Number one, I appreciate the conversation number two Most of people it's in my chat and in my and on my life I'm mainly a mostly Christian and They're two way all day every day They hold to conservative values Republican whatever the case might be most of them are right And and and at the same time we can walk and chew gum At the same time. So so for me, I'm just I'm gonna speak for me And probably those who resonate what I'm saying We hear this I see what's going on out here and I also see what's going on in here so What goes on in here is going to affect how I deal without here What do I mean by that if my if my understanding of this of this book? Does not affect how I vote Doesn't affect how I put in positions of leadership or quick, you know a quote-unquote, right? Because God works through means so I'm saying that as Christians as born-again Christians who follow the teachings of Christ who understand that their salvation has nothing to do with them But everything to do with Christ and that they're to live out their salvation and fear with fear and trembling Then we know that what we see going on out here. Yeah, it's going according to plan But at the same time we don't sit on our behind and do nothing about it. Okay We are to get involved with salt and light for Christians are salt and light for a reason Salt affects and it and it infects. Okay, so that means when I went when when the light of a Christian Interest of dark places should change the atmosphere when the salt of a Christian's life and testimony tells itself It should it should affect that which it has come in contact with so amen. Okay, so so I don't you not deal with people over here, bro that don't Understand what it means to be Transformed and be changed by the power of God and the spirit of God to where now it affects How we think and what we believe my point is is that if I say somebody's a Christian is Because I've had conversations with them or I've looked at their life for the most part from what I can see I'm not I'm not the fourth member of Trinity, but from what I can see I can say that person that man that woman Whoever that's a brother. That's a sister in Christ They're holding it down because of what they what they believe and what they believe affects how they behave So I tell people this you may not have a disagreement with that I'll tell people hey, man, you cannot be a Christian and hold to the party platform of a Democrat party Yeah, that's that's that's from what food because I know party platform So my point is as Christians Everything we do is supposed to it's supposed to honor God It's supposed to bring glory and honor to him. So my hope my whole thing is When I say what must I do to be saved? I wasn't asking a trick question. I wanted to make sure people understand that number one Mankind has an infection problem. It's called sin You me your mama my mama your dad all of us from Adam on down has been Infected and affected by sin, right? So that means that everything we do comes from a sin nature How can man's nature be changed when man's nature can't be changed by doing anything good because the Bible says in the please They ask he said chapter 7 verse 20 There's no one who lives on this earth and continued he does what it's good. Nobody so I know that God has given me understanding of that. So Lord if I'm at if I'm if I'm the the the object of your wrath Then what must I do? Well, I must recognize that I'm a sinner. I must recognize Get forgiveness, right? So it's right. So but what I have done what I have done is deserving of death So so if if if chapter one of Romans says that the unbeliever Expenses the wrath of God the moralists in chapter two experiences the wrath of God They think that by their good works and them not being 501 C3 or not doing this not doing that God says now you just don't you know different in the one in chapter one of Romans chapter three says all men are guilty chapter four tells us that hey Salvation comes by a grace and faith and trust in Christ alone So the fire says we've been justified by faith we have peace with God chapter six says that all of us deserves deserves death But the free gift of God comes to Jesus Christ our Lord. So what does that mean? That means simply this I Recognize because God has opened my eyes like he opened Peter's eyes to recognize that he is the Son of God. I Recognize that I'm a sinner Lord save me and he says according to Romans chapter 10 verse 8 through 10 He says if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart the God is raising from there Doubt shall be saved for the mouth man believes Confess with resulting in salvation But with the mouth he received resulting in salvation this he says so anyone anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord He says shall be saved it has nothing to do with good works matter of fact when I'm saved according to Ephesians chapter 2 verse 10 I I'm saved to do good works, but I don't do good works to be saved That's the difference and that's what I want to have a conversation with you and I you know and another and another live But I'm a hold you to it bro. I'm a hold you to this conversation The last the last thing I'll say that to end is and this this could be the start of our next conversation, too Is we have to talk about how? the faith and not deeds has also been weaponized in Weaponized because I agree with you but at the same time There are no butts with God in the word I mean But I'm just observing the people around me right and and a lot of a lot of Christians have used exactly what you just said Yeah, to abnegate what they do on a daily basis and they do it and they use Christianity as this crutch And it is a crutch. It was intended to be a crutch. That's what grace is. I mean Jesus as in Jesus in his entirety is a crutch That was given to man through God's love and God's grace, right? But it's used a little bit more disingenuous than that. It's it's used specifically It's used to say, you know what I can do whatever I wanted it at some point out I'll ask for forgiveness and then it'll be okay. Yeah, there's a word for those kind of people Yeah, there's a word for those kind of bill those people are not saved though Those are the Romans those are the Romans six that we continue and sin so that grace may increase of their grace may God forbid how can we die to sin still living so the question? Yeah, the question that we're going to question that we're gonna do we're gonna dive into hopefully next time Whether it's on your podcast or mine is Let's let's take a headcount of what percentage of Christianity in this country in Detroit in Minnesota Across the country across the entire Catholic Christian, you know, Christian identifying world How much of it is that that form or that belief or that type of faith practice? And that that's what I when I say five or one see three Christians That's what I'm really making a reference to right is because the two are linked Right, you'll see the Christians that are willing to sell out and give way to an institution of worship That are really sold out to the government. Those are usually a lot of your Christians who are waiting They want us bad to be saved and then continue this so they go hand in hand I got you Sam. I got you Sam. So let's let's do this man. You you emailed me, right? You don't mind. Let's exchange numbers offline of that. If that could do it Bad bad bad. So so email me your your number and I even and I in my face when you email me your number I'll send you a confirmation text from my phone. It's gonna be coming from a 3-2 joint. Okay, so we'll do that Look man. God bless you brother. Hey man. Appreciate dude. Appreciate ma'am. Appreciate the doc Have a good one you too, brother