 Welcome back to the original gangsters podcast. I'm Jimmy butchillado and we're recording remote today and But my colleague and a friend the intrepid Scott Bernstein is joining us here. Hey now and Benny the engineer the man behind the glasses with us and We couldn't get together in studio today, but I think will things will go well and We have a topic today that a lot of people have requested. It's a pretty hot topic Buffalo Mafia So before we get into that just want to remind everyone, please subscribe to our YouTube channel Please follow us on social media Twitter Facebook Instagram We actually do have a tick tock account, but we're not very active on that But we hope to change that soon But anyhow anytime you like subscribe share retweet whatever it really helps us grow this podcast in a grassroots way It's really important. We appreciate your kind words and support Anyhow Buffalo Mafia a lot going on. We've actually recorded audio episodes about this topic But I don't think we've ever focused a video Since we've started the video channel and so a lot of people have requested this a lot going on in the news now so we'll do a little bit of Breaking news sort of breaking news, but also some historical Context for people that are less familiar with what's going on in Buffalo. So Bernie you want to start us off with me some of your gangster report stuff and then we'll unpack it from there. Yeah, we have Quite the courtroom drama in the making for the summer of 2023 for the Buffalo mob the Magadena crime family it seems like this is Maybe a microcosm in some ways of the net that appears to be At least attempting to be cast by the feds on the Tadaro Alleged Tadaro mob empire and the boss of the the alleged reputed boss of the Buffalo Mafia is Big Joe Tadaro It's never been convicted of any felonies Beat a couple federal cases over the years and him and his father are In addition to being alleged Mafia dons our were in terms of his dad and him now are They have a pizza and wing empire to go along with their alleged Mafia kingdom the La Nova Pizza and wing franchise was started by lead pipe Joe senior back in the 50s and they're credited with pioneering the marketing of Buffalo wings putting the taking that Western New York delicacy and and spread it around the country in grocery store freezer aisles I mean I can distinctly remember a time when they're We didn't know Buffalo wings were and then at a certain point in the 90s All of a sudden every restaurant you go to there's bw3's And it's just a staple now on menus everywhere, but it wasn't before probably the 80s and 90s and The Tadaros are responsible for that but according to the feds. They've also crafted this Mafia dynasty in Western New York big Joe Tadaro always denies any affiliation to the mob his only real official Connection on paper other than allegations was that he was booted out of the labor union about 25 20 25 years ago along with his dad and some other people for their ties to organized crime figures but His nephew Peter Jiracy Jr And a retired DEA agent Joe Bon Giovanni Are going on trial in august in a racketeering drug and prostitution case And this is one of many Cases that have been built either against reputed Tadaro lieutenants Reputed Tadaro family member slash mob figures His his underboss Took a case about five six years ago where There was a lot of information allegations about him leaving that grind family and bringing it back to prominence over the last 10 years was in the court filings against Don Bioli who is his alleged underboss So this you know, this should be really interesting To see what evidence is going to be rolled out in this case There's already been a lot of it that has been shown in court filings leading up to the case that's been about A couple of years in the making to get to to get to trial But Peter Jiracy Jr. Owns Pharaoh strip club, which is the number one Gentleman's club in western new york How many I wonder what that ranking system is like What's the number two? Listen to the sense that I think that's where I would be hanging out at the number When they want to go to the strip club they go to they go to ferros and Ferros was originally opened by Peter Jiracy senior Who married Joe Tadaro's sister? And then at some point in the last 20 Let's say 10 20 years uh Peter Jiracy Jr. Purchased The strip club from his dad What's his dad? He was obviously the brother-in-law, but was he a maid guy? Do we know we don't We don't know but we know for sure is according to these court filings over the last couple months They have witnesses that are going to testify or have testified in front of the grand jury that Jiracy Jr in addition to running the strip club also running drug rackets prostitution rackets and bragging Uh about being a maid guy and then there's this bombshell that Silently erupted last week and it I scratched my head and why this wasn't on the front page of all the newspapers there And I don't know if it just went under the radar and they're not paying attention because it was in a court It was kind of dug. It was deep into a court file, but I reported it is that New York's or former New York Supreme Court judge John Mikulski Who committed suicide last year Is an unindicted co-conspirator in this case Uh, that's going to trial in august and includes this dea retired de agent Joe, Joe Bon Giovanni who I guess grew up with Jiracy and was according to court filings informants has been protecting buffalo mafia drug and sex rackets Uh for a decade or so has taken over a quarter million dollars in payoffs according to the prosecutors So I'm shocked but maybe I'm not that that the Mikulski The revelation that Mikulski was an unindicted co-conspirator in this case and they actually have text messages showing his involvement in the prostitution ring Wasn't covered since His suicide was covered very heavily and another suicide attempt by him Where he tried to jump in front of a train was covered Pretty extensively, but the fact that he was an unindicted co-conspirator in this case Which came out last week in a court filing I'm the only one who's reported it What do you what do you make of that jumping in front of a train? I mean that we could let's get conspiracy-ish for a moment to you uh But I guess if someone were going to throw him in front of a train and it didn't kill him They'd finish him off. They wouldn't what they wouldn't so he maybe he did Jump in front of a train, but isn't that it unusual? Yeah, not that we're psychiatrists, but I mean that's an unusual way to commit suicide Yeah, and then his when he succeeded in committing suicide I'm in the spring. I believe it was this this is the spring of the summer of 22 uh It was within a week or two of The feds raiding his house At the same time that they raided peter duracy's house Do we know how he when he Finally when he ultimately killed himself how he did that Did he shoot him? I don't remember wow the shack on it. Wow so um in terms of the The details of this case My understanding is I thought I read somewhere that they're talking about sex trafficking so Does that mean? Because you can have prostitution rackets where the women are uh voluntarily Partaking in this and it's still illegal and if you get if you get busted you get busted But sex trafficking to me Tells me that this these are women forced against their will to be involved in the sex trade to me sex Maybe we're into semantics here, but to me sex trafficking sounds more severe than prostitution Yeah, which could be a kind of voluntary even if you think it's even if you think it's Whatever like you don't think it's a good thing. It's not it's not moral or you can even get into certain arguments that that you know women May find themselves in those positions because of other structural forms of discrimination It's still ultimately an agreement between two people to to have sex and if the money is exchanged you can still make the argument It's a What would you say what's the term for it? Um victim agency over your body. Yeah, right and victimless crime Sex trafficking to me implies something more severe where there's coercion. Do you have any insight? Yeah, I think it's but I shouldn't say anything but the um indictment and alleged is both uh traditional prostitution and then You know straight up raw sex trafficking where they're forcing women uh Applying them with with drugs and forcing them to perform uh sexual acts on On clients customers Um And what do we know the judge like how does he get mixed up with with these? Do we know like anything about his bio? um Off the top of my head. I can't give you a ton of bio on on mckalski other than uh was an eerie county supreme court judge and eerie county is uh, you know the big county up in western New York, uh and this isn't speculation or here say this is text messages and wiretaps Where he is clearly participating and I think you can kind of Without him here to defend himself it's I Think there's a A multitude of ways you can look at it when you're dissecting what at least what the feds are showing you in terms of what his alleged participation is Whether it was simply him partaking in prostitutes Uh, or was he Feeding the enterprise Customers in addition to himself And taking the you know taking finders fees Yeah, I guess the the the um the one connection is apparently he was a lawyer for The strip club owner before he became a judge so there is this Pre-existing relationship between the two, but I don't know much else about he was 61. He was 61. I believe. Yeah but he definitely had ties going to to uh Jorakji or uh It was like hundreds of texts. Yeah talking about getting girls yeah, um And you know he knew this guy, but it's interesting how many mainstream people were caught up in this case because you have a Obviously a state supreme court justice Again, not like uh, you know some lower court. I mean that's pretty fucking big right state supreme court Especially the state of new york, and then you have a de agent, but there's also a school teacher. That's Yeah indicated in this who come no who's pled guilty um, who who's According to the government Possibly a made member of the buffalo mafia. Uh, who's been teaching in the buffalo public schools, uh, as well as I think some private catholic schools um and coaching football and wrestling Uh, and he's doing seven years in prison right now and part of his plea Was an allocution where he implicates bon Giovanni Uh in protecting his drug operation and his knowledge that bon Giovanni was protecting Durasie's uh operations out of out of ferro's I think we buried the lead a little bit and I want to be sure to put this out there that Peter Durasie jr. When this case came down Uh was out on bon And in the last couple months he was violated uh, and now he has to Finish his weight To get in front of a jury later this summer behind bars because According to prosecutors and the judge believed this Uh, there was some pretty severe witness tampering going on witness intimidation And one of the main witnesses in this case against him um, we don't know if it's a a man or a woman, but uh, both Them both the person who's the witness and that person's mother Um have walked out to their cars in the morning a couple times of within in their apartment complex and uh, there are rats like dead like Why we're not live dead real dead rats that are on their on their windshield and The prosecutors put pictures of said dead rats in the court filings Last week when we found out that that makalski was a unindicted co-conspirator Yes, so that's definitely not a good look for for the defense We also know trying to flesh out more of the details here that there's one count of Conspiracy to distribute cocaine. Do we know do we know what kind of weight? the Some serious weight through that club um, and that's where we see a dovetail with Uh, the outlaw biker group The outlaws my motorcycle club they were not indicted in this case, but My sources are telling me and there's some other reporting that's been done um out of the buffalo area that There's a separate federal investigation going on right now into the buffalo chapter of the outlaws and Part of that investigation involves allegations that all of the drug activity being perpetrated alleged drug activity being perpetrated at faro's is being supplied By the outlaws and we have found out through court filings in these cases out of uh, the buffalo area related to this It's almost like a shadow attack on to darro in my opinion We are going after all these people in his orbit without going after him hoping that you know You know, Humpty Dumpty falls You can't put that together and it's like you can take these pieces and and make uh take a And use them as a a legal weapon against big joe, um the reputed boss, but um it It's it's it's it's tenuous. I mean it's um It's a situation where You we know from these Recent court filings that john armin Who they call tommy o Isn't just the biggest biker in western new york right now He's according to these court finds that came out in the last couple years in these cases he's the the the international president of Bow laws all the power in that global biker empire Is is centered right now in buffalo specifically in faro's where where tommy o is the head of security Yeah, well there We're talking about upstate new york. So That obviously is Very close to canada. So maybe just to give some larger context to this It's interesting. They've always had these historical ties buffalo And canada for a long time hamilton and toronto were considered part of magadino's territory the old man the undertaker Stefano magadino, and then of course montreal was bonano territory and it seems like For a while, we thought maybe the buffalo family was defunct And as a result we just assumed that all of the action and hamilton would be independent of kozenostra activities in in new york And now we're rethinking all of that right now. We think that the buffalo family is actually Not only functional, but but maybe even thriving. Yeah, but but also as a part of that is that connected directly to Activities going on and hamilton Especially in terms of the administration someone you've already mentioned So you want to update us on that because he's he's on the streets now. I believe yeah, both the only brothers are Let's unpack that for a second. So I think the seed of the Buffalo mafia is dead narrative goes back to the mid-2000s when led pipe joe who there were some guys in between magadino and mud pipe joe, but Really the two preeminent bosses of the buffalo family Over the last 50 or last 80 90 years or whatever Have magadino and to darrell. Like I said, there was a some bridge gap guys um for about 10 years there, but when when led pipe joe took over the family in the early 80s uh he really He was a real power player not just in his his crime family, but across the country in terms of respect in terms of money Big big time earner, which is where his son has gotten a lot of that Acumen whether you believe he's a criminal or not. These are people that you have to acknowledge their business acumen their multi-millionaires 100 times over because of Not and it's not just the piece of the in the wings. They own hotels. They own real estate I know from my research in detroit They were involved. They were actually unindicted co-conspirators in the game tax case in 1996 what took down the whole detroit mob administration and some of that stuff had to do with Investments in Las Vegas and back in the 80s the to darrow father and son Worked with jack toko Who was the boss of detroit in putting the investment together for the edgewater casino? Where they ended up building and stealing by 10 million dollars from it before they sold it? uh, so these are just really really accomplished businessmen and alleged accomplished gangsters, but Lead pipe joe retires basically big joe ostensibly takes his place according to some members of or according to some court records and and fbi filings But what what what happens next is what I think seeds these These rumors of of the buffalo mafia dying Lead pipe joe's in retirement big joe wants to focus on growing the pizza and wing empire And basically steps down and gives the gives the the the role of godfather to his to lead pipe joe's longtime conciliary lenny foul zone And Lenny foul zone was just He was old I think he was a little disconnected from the street uh and the family floundered Under Lenny and and he had trouble I think getting that family to grow They were stagnating They there weren't any there wasn't new blood the the rackets were very In the 90s in the 80s even though it was the late 2000s That me I don't know about him or buffalo that that era sorry to interrupt you but Based on our conversations about places like detroit pittsburgh. He may have been okay with that Right, we've had Lenny foul zone was okay with that. I think yeah, right, right, right just letting it sort of they got the sopranos die on the vine Have as you know gobble up as much money you can as the boss. Yeah insulate yourself. Yeah And then according to My reporting as well as uh, what what's been put out there in court filings over the last decade it looks like big joe recognized the issue um And came back returned to the fold to Return the crime family that his father had been at the top of for so long returned it to to prominence And get it into the 21st century uh, and some of that involved New blood some of it involved reaffirming and and Reconvening their relationship with the five families out of new york city and some of it involved hamilton and canada and and reaffirming and and reconnecting and reconvening more activity Over there johnny papalia had been one of their guys. He'd been dead for 25 years And they're really now they've Kind of absorbed a lapino uh group that had Not been under the banner of of buffalo, but now is the And these are brother-in-law a brother-in-law of the violi brothers and that brings us to Don violi who Don and joey violi who's who are mafia princes their their dad was Gunned down in a mafia war in in montreal in the late 70s with the risottos And he took the violi's took refuge in in hamilton um under the lapinos And it looks like part of or a big part of a big big joe's rejuvenation plan Was getting the violi brothers made um There was debate about where what family they were going to get made into this is all again. This is all in the court violence This is in speculation. This was Right put into the record that there was debate amongst the bananos And the magnadinos who was going to get the rights to the violi brothers uh, and then in 2015 and 16 Don violi is is made in 15 and then joey violi his younger brother is made in 16 and then in 17 Allegedly Don violi is up to the underboss post by joe tedaro at a top secret ceremony in florida and there's uh sourcing That I have as well as some of this other reporting that joe tedaro likes to do most of his talking business In florida. He doesn't like to talk in buffalo business in buffalo or in his restaurants or anywhere that He'll he'll travel You know Through multiple states to get to a place that he feels comfortable having conversations and doing business about his crime family Which is hundreds if not thousands of miles away. I'm not sure what the Drive is from the top of new york down to florida. Well. Yeah, I mean we that's uh, not completely unprecedented I mean, I always go back to detroit because it's one of the families. I'm more familiar with but At one point. I mean joe's really blackville toko and pete licavoli who were like the the top three guys hardly ever stepped foot in detroit Toward the end of their lives pete licavoli in arizona and the brother-in-law as toko and zarely in florida So if they needed to weigh in on something you had to go down there and talk to them so but Yeah, and and we also know from from these investigations of the violi brothers that they That They had to clear this with the five families. Yeah, I think there was even a reference to the commission which was really Yeah, and really explosive and they were doing all their communications through a familiar name in our podcast Mr. Michael mancuso Who is the boss of the bananos right now? And mancuso was in prison but was communicating through his One of his then conciliaries porkies and kocho Was was liaisoning with to dara according to these Court records Yeah, I think it's a really interesting discussion just because I you know, I like theoretical criminology And I like talking about these things whether or not the commission exists and and my sources In terms of guys who have some, you know experience in the life. Let it's let us say It doesn't exist like it used to like in the sense of like the five bosses getting together in a in a restaurant somewhere I don't think you'll ever see that happen again So they use the term. I believe they use the term commission I have to imagine that he meant it in the very looses terms Very loose just that the five families do communicate with each other. We know that We know the five families do communicate with each other. So in a sort of network kind of way I'm guessing that that's what I think the court planning says they got sign off from four of the five families Yeah um, and I don't want to I'm forgetting on who the one family that that they didn't have sign off on but It appears that to dara has Leverages, you know his and his dad's old connections to new york um tap back in and you know rumors of the uh the death of that megadino organization were quite premature And although it might have looked like the family was dying in the late 2000s early 2010s According to reporting of my reporting according to reporting in buffalo and according to court records It's far from the case and according to a wiretap that gombi oli was caught on There's at least 30 soldiers in this crime family not counting admin Um, and that's a pretty big family for 2000 in the 2020s 100 percent um, I mean, I would say buffalo Was always one of those organizations that it's stature and its influence was probably larger than its membership ever was anyhow Yeah, right. Um, so the so if they have 30 guys now, it's pretty pretty remarkable um I would also um I wonder in terms of the Any kind of connection to the violence that's going on in canada not necessarily matri all but but at least We know that there's violence in Hamilton, yeah, i was I want to those are traditionally buffalo territories where the vial, you know, the violi brothers. That's their backyard Yeah, so I want to throw this out there and this has not been This isn't hard reporting And I wanted to throw it out there is some stuff that I've heard and I've not gone to vet it yet And I I will probably report on it at some point once I properly Lock all the specifics down but As recently as today I've been getting some sourcing That is telling me exactly what you said that um Some of what's going on in canada right now and some of what's been going down in canada the last five or six years at the I don't even want to say back end of the canadian mafia work because who knows where this thing's going and when it will end but uh Stuff that you know, this canadian mafia were started in the 2000s And I think according to my People by the late 2010s the buffalo group Was playing some role and there's some Maybe even with this most recent Uh del basso chit del basso assassination And I'm not saying that to to daro is anything to do with it or you know, joe to daro is guilty of of ordering a murder but um I don't I just want to be clear, you know, yeah Yeah, I think yeah, I agree with you again joe to daro is uh According to the to the law He is an upstanding member I mean according to the official record. He is an upstanding member of society. He does not have any felony convictions yeah I always want to be clear on that and he he adamantly denies that he plays any role in the mob and I want to You know anecdotally I I've reported and I think this is interesting because I love the minutiae He has a uh an edict out there since he came back Where nobody can say his name And if they want to refer to him in a conversation, uh, they they pretend like they're puffing a cigar That it's an homage to his father Who who addition to led pipe joe was known as joe cigars And who I guess his dad had implemented a similar No name No name spoken edict at some point Well from from what I can tell I want to come back to the canada thing but just for a moment with to daro since to digress for a moment about From what I can tell his his attitude is different than Like jack toko who who would get really uptight if his name was mentioned with anything like mob related cousin ostra And in fact, he might even threaten to sue you He had 12 there were 12 separate lawsuits that jack toko filed against media outlets over the years until he was convicted right and so Even though even though his even though his name even though he may not have been convicted of anything prior to that His name was in congressional hearings and congressional investing So his name he was on public record as as someone involved in cousin ostra. So I'm not sure what what he was How but to your point joe to daro has a different approach and he kind of makes fun of it Yes, that's where I was going right jovial about it. Yeah, like come on. You've watched too many movies You're watching too many goff on him around the pizza and wings guy like get out of here as if I would you know And he's even said I'm I'm way too busy Running this pizza and wing empire to be involved in any any shenanigans like that like get out And that does pass the eye test if you talk to people that are in Buffalo that yeah, you can find him daily behind the counter at a lot of his Restaurants, you know being a very hands-on Owner, he's not an absentee like corporate overlord or something like that. It doesn't he's very he seems very affable Uh, yeah approachable likeable Um, he doesn't come off scary. I think his dad came off a little scary Yeah, he's a popular guy. I mean people seem to really like him that at least that I can tell and let's point out We can go down a whole rabbit hole about why things don't get reported and how certain things Are just accepted and I scratch my head about it. He has business affiliations official sponsorships with not just the nhl but the nf out So he's been vetted By those two professional sports leagues, you know when you're in Buffalo the official Pizza and wings of the Buffalo Sabres and the Buffalo Bills are Lenova pizza Yeah, that's a big that's a big business um But I would say where things could be connected to canada going back to the violence is because I i'm skeptical that I mean with all due respect to your sources, I i'm skeptical that Buffalo has anything to do with Montreal I I would I would Glad, you know admit. I'm wrong if that that comes out, but um Where I think it's connected as more indirectly is that The risotto has kept that whole region in check and once that organization destabilized There were ripple effects across Even as far as vancouver let alone In ontario as far as italy as far as italy as far as mexico south south america, right? So so that opened up things in hamilton uh for the Los atanos and the lapinos to kind of go go back at it again And we know that there were you know, they were killing you know murders down there And so that's where I think it's it's more of an indirect connection to to montreal Where the whole regions became destabilized and then this Provided an opportunity for buffalo to kind of reassert itself I I think that's a possibility again to your point. I'm not comfortable coming out here saying a hundred percent that that's what happened But there are certainly some signs That that that's what what is going on And there are there are just droves of little information nuggets that are in these court documents that have trickled out online over the last couple years as we've been waiting for this geracy bond Giovanni case to Get in front of the jury and It's pretty disturbing some of the stuff that you're that you're consuming in these court filings. Um that the work conditions at at ferro's the the work environment the According to these they had something like 12 to 15 Either witnesses or confidential informants quoted in this where the The drug use and the drug trafficking just rampant and being used as leverage over employees Um Where now again, I want to be clear with You know where where geracy stands legally there had been a couple of of Searches of his person and some vacation property I believe Where they had it they thought they had on good authority that he was he had large amounts of drugs on him for sale And these were unsuccessful Uh searches So that will go on the rack that will go into the record that they're in addition to the searches that they made where they found stuff There were other searches where they were looking for specific things that they didn't find based on Sources that had been previously reliable And then there's the relationship between Not just between makalski and geracy But between geracy and bond Giovanni You know there there's one alleged situation where a girl a stripper overdosed at the club and uh He needed help getting rid of the body and he possibly According to Informants and some of the allegations that he called bond Giovanni and bond Giovanni helped uh, I guess To separate geracy and faroes from this Dead stripper Yeah, it's I mean, I don't know all the details of this of this specific case But just in general the the strip club industry is can be pretty sketchy And again, you know, there's an interesting debate between This idea of like agency over your body is this is this voluntary exchange if people want to go to a strip club and Person agrees to dance there for money It should that be anyone's business From a libertarian perspective the answer is no and and politically that's sort of where I lean like like grow I think grown acid the hulk should be left alone if they want to do drugs go to strip clubs, whatever Listen to the kind of music they want Whatever that tends to be my position not to get too political here, but I think we should basically leave people alone um, but If it in that industry, we know the same thing with pornography There becomes a fine line because then we find out that some of the people who work in this industry It's a little bit more of a gray area than just oh, this is my agency and I'm I'm volunteering You know to to do this especially if you're talking about like human trafficking um, but also when the studios or the strip clubs use like coercive techniques to keep the women In a situation where they actually end up having very little agency So I mean we could do a whole episode on that But I I do think that that there are some gray areas here when we talk about either pornography or or strip clubs and I want to be clear I'm not like a puritan like oh, you know Ban pornography shut down strip clubs because again I think I think adults should should be left alone as long as no one's getting hurt And I think that's that's the debate here as well If people are getting hurt then that then that I think that changes the the formula and the calculation about If the authorities have responsibility to intervene and let's make no mistake about it Let's as we wrap up the last 10 50 minutes of this What the end goal for the federal government is here they want to squeeze to racy jr specifically to have him flip on his uncle That that's the end game and I don't really think there's any debate about what the end game is I would think so I want to ask you something else though theoretical There are still we've I think we've talked about this on some of our audio versions but not on video yet There are still skeptics out there that think that That that the Buffalo mafia is defunct that this doesn't prove anything And part of it is this semantics argument that in these court filings when you look at the public documentation It's it's an interesting phrasing they talk about italian organized crime, but they don't use the m word Yeah, and I wonder from your from your perspective as a an A reporter but also someone who has a law degree What do you make of this semantics here of not just coming out and saying mafia family? It's kind of curious I think a lot of it has to do with Who they believe is the godfather of the mafia there If it was a hardened convicted multiple time convicted felon Who had done 20 years in prison for racketeering and had been connected to a bunch of murders You're not talking about philadelphia by any chance, right? So, you know with a guy like tedaro Again, you mentioned it with jack toko here until 1998 when jack toko was convicted in detroit of Being the boss of detroit mafia and orico He'd been boss for almost 20 years and the media around here had to tiptoe around it Because of the litigious nature of of toko now tedaro hasn't Shown in history as being litigious But i'm sure there are a lot of Media outlets as well as you know businesses That that don't want to roll the dice on that Yeah, and a they don't want to put themselves, you know give themselves legal exposure But b they don't want to alienate themselves from a Upper echelon member of the community there godfather or no godfather No, that's right that that the right that the legitimate side of his his World is very influential and and as you pointed out and so i can imagine that The m word would some people in that community might find very alienating So there's a the prosecutors are sort of trying to be very careful in how they Frame this, you know, there was a I want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but you know, there was a murder in 2007 now that was 16 years ago, but um That was at a time when the reports were that the mafia buffalo was was dead and gone and um The guy's name was monti mesimi. I believe massamini mesimi And uh, he was killed in a gangland styled hit the guy that killed him was Uh arrested and convicted I believe but there were a lot of people Whose names came up in court filings related to this monti guy who was a wholesale drug dealer Had done I think 10 years in federal prison Had come out Had started moving again moving away again And some of the names of some of the people that were involved in some of these Operations that this monti guy was involved in had ties To the to darl family now again Not saying that big toe to darl had anything to do with this monti guy's murder back in 07 But just another example of how there are so many Layers here in in buffalo similar to detroit Where the leaders of this group in western new york seem to be very adept at Insulate insulating themselves from what's actually going on Down on the street that in in some families there's there's one layer Or two layers it looks like with buffalo. There might be 10 layers But according to the feds once you get to that 10th layer It's leading back to big toe to darl Well, yeah, when you say the family, I mean I I a lot of times I use the term organization because people get confused about You were talking about genealogy versus but when you say the to darl family you're you're you're talking about the Megan also trying organization. No, but I'm also talking about the to darl father and son had some connections to some of the people that were in this drug operation specifically one guy that had some Some Pretty deep connections to the tutorials now that doesn't mean That the to darls were benefiting or knew anything about this drug Operation that was going on in the 2000s. It just means one of the people that was allegedly involved in that drug operation um It wasn't that hard to connect to to the two joe to darls Well, another thing that's interesting from all of this just at a macro level is again how many uh, cosinostra guys Are involved in narcotics. I think it's so common now to see these guys pinched We've done episodes about or you've done reporting guys from philly from genovese family I mean, this is what I mean. This is it was always the the big you know the The what do you call it the um worst kept secret In terms of what was going on between prohibition in the 70s and 80s But you know since the drug rush in the mob In the 70s with the heroin um It's just I just think it's It's a staple now and every in every family and it's not really even hidden anymore now It had been hidden But I would guess in the last 40 years as a general rule If there was any hiding it was simply pageantry prompt prompt in circumstance I agree with that. I think It goes back to the the godfather myth. Yeah, I think that's where a lot of that that that starts and that's from Yeah, go ahead and especially and again, I don't we could go down this rabbit hole and I don't want to go down it but believe me if you think That this trend around the country with marijuana legalization If you think that lakosa nostra doesn't have involvement at all levels Of the legal marijuana industry in all these states you're fooling yourselves Yeah, yeah, that's just a little bit of involvement right and and The the scale is so large that it's not to say that Because people will are going to take your words out of context with people that criticize you online You're not saying that every single operation has cosa nostra fingers on it You're saying that cosa nostra has its fingerprints on a lot of the the the operations and those are not even necessary I don't even want to say necessarily. I mean, yes, lakosa nostra, but I would cast a wider net and just say organize crime Oh, yeah Yeah, and at any level with any ethnic group. They I think they're all they've all been on a I'm on a mad You know like like a a snowball that picks up Momentum the further you go down the hill they're they're trying to crash in to the legal marijuana industry because They they they wrote they wrote the blueprint on how to do it illegally A lot of these guys they want to benefit from the legal aspect of it now Well, and they and they weren't able to do that with booze and they weren't able to do that really with the casinos now, so maybe they can Get it out of the marijuana it just like when they just like in the early days of vegas They don't need a license They just need to have somebody that can get a license Get somebody license that becomes your front and that's the person that has the license to grow That's the person that has a license to distribute. Well, who's that person? Who's where's that person getting their money from? Yeah And we know that there's a big case investigation going on in in new england with uh linking narcotics and posa nostra We actually we're gonna talk about that today and some things didn't go According to schedules, so that audiences can can look for that in the future You may you may do that one solo. We may do it together. We haven't figured that out yet But but that's on the horizon is a episode about This same topic with uh, what's going on in providence just to close it down jimmy. Let's Both sit here and you know put our uh wizard hats on What's what's in the future for big joe tedaro jr. You think that in five years from now When he's 80 years old or uh getting into his 80s Is he has he taken a case or are we sitting here in five years from now? And he's still squeaky clean and all of this has been you know, kind of for not I predict that he will not be he will not face any legal Consequences, I think if if his nephew is convicted If he keeps quiet um I I think that some of these smaller families seem to do a better job of guys keeping quiet and and and doing their time Especially a relative But I will I will point out I don't know the exact number but in addition to peter duracy jr his brother and I believe is anthony duracy also took a drug case and there has been three four five other Buffalo mob affiliate or alleged mob affiliates to have taken cases over the last couple years and that's why i'm i'm saying that they're they're um the feds are are Taking that humpy dumpy approach where they're just like chipping away Yeah, on the margins Hoping to get to the center. Yeah, it seems so for sure. So that's to me it's it's clear as day that that's That's the plan. That's the government's plan now whether the plan works Is yet to be seen but I just want to be clear that whether or not Duracy flips on his uncle that seems to be the the the one they could get the most meat off the bone on but what if you know some of these other um lesser figures Could decide to turn and then their turning could Lead to someone bigger turning and that could lead to tomorrow. I don't know It just seems like there's a lot of cases and a lot of resources being put into that region by the feds and everybody that they're targeting has some direct connection or or One person removed connection to Tadar Well, I think it would have to be something catastrophic like like salvatally or gravano flipping I really I really don't see it happening if it's a guy who's like one or two degrees Away, and I'm so cynical. This is just this is just my intuition. I'm so cynical, but the the whole point of being infiltrating the legitimate economy and having connections to people in the state supreme court and dea and mainstream society is to insulate yourself And and so I'm so cynical I think that that's the whole point and so when you're insulated you you you don't take the fall But I realize that the feds certainly have a concerted effort here to chip away at those not just gangster alleged associations But these mainstream, you know, these mainstream connections. So I point well taken, but I I'm I don't think so that that would be my prediction. I think these skates, you know, I'm gonna just, you know, put my Two cents in I don't foresee a Tadaro junior bust in the future as well I think that the fbi is is giving it the good old college try and the dea and the atf and and homeland security It definitely looks like this isn't a half-ass effort or As you know, my One of my one of the guys I pay homage to george anesthesia who coined the term racketeering light It looks like they're they're coming with a full arsenal But this is this target might just be too big Uh to take down because of everything you just said that's that's why he's been able to Or him or I shouldn't say him. Well, that's why his nephew has allegedly been able to to um Get get his hooks into a state supreme court judge D a dea agent Is to to have that type of uh protection and insulation from busts Yeah, it's invaluable for a crime boss. Yeah, and it it's and believe me with a target like that There could be very well intentioned Buffalo feds That are desperate to bring a case but the the the justice department in washington with A potential defendant or top defendant like joe tadaro junior You're gonna have to get their sign off And the bar that you're gonna have to meet Yes, the threshold that you're gonna have to meet of not just We think he's doing this or this guy related this guy related this guy said he's doing this You're gonna need first hand Right people or wiretaps and I don't know If you'll ever get it and I would if I had to bet I'd say no But it's definitely fascinating to keep keep track of for a family that everybody had written off the page Is now one of the most, you know compelling fascinating Groups in america to keep to have Yeah, I mean and one thing that doesn't help in terms of the insulation is notice to your point about racketeering light Notice they're going after narcotics and sex trafficking I mean other things witness tam I get it but but those are the two of the big to the big counts here and that's that will get generate less sympathy then The racketeering light. Oh these guys are running local Crabs games and some juice loans You know the average person is like I roll like really you're gonna go after a 70 80 year old italian dude because of Juice loans and crabs games. You say sex trafficking and narcotics all of a sudden It's like, oh, whoa, whoa this that that's maybe we're not so cool with that and believe me The prosecutors in august are going to do everything in their power to be able to get in that story About the dead stripper the od to overdose stripper And I don't know I wish I could speak more authoritatively on it I don't know what evidence they have or they don't have But that anecdote If they're able to get it in front of the jury Speaks volumes whether or not you had anything to do with their death or not But you come across a woman that is overdosed and instead of calling 911 Uh, you call your alleged corrupt federal government agent To to watch your back Yeah, but again, like you said that That could have been something completely a decision independent of Anything organized crime. No, I'm not. No. No. Yes. I'm not. I'm not saying that I'm just saying that in terms of what you're talking about optics and Yes, it doesn't look like a jury Against somebody or turn the public against somebody when you hear stories like that You don't come across sympathetic whether or not and had anything to do with the mob or anything to do with your drugs or not right Yeah, I mean, there's there's a parallel somewhat with calling kill patrick here, which which is we talk about bribery and You know pay for play A lot of times the average person is like what that's complicated Like what are we talking about like white collar crimes? Like I don't know But when you talked about kwami being at this party where there's a stripper who too Turns up dead and and there may be some connections In a lot of ways that was sort of the beginning of the end for him in terms of public relations Like even though by the way he was never that that's he was never convicted. He was never tried There's never been anyone charged with that. There's never been anyone talking about in detroit We had a mayor named kwami kill patrick Back in the 2000s that served two terms I think so And in the middle of this second term He was forced to resign because of a giant scandal Related to perjury Then he was hit with a racketeering case And a lot of this was stemmed from a party that he allegedly held to celebrate in mansion Yeah, we he was celebrating his victory. He was only 32 years old and he had been elected the the mayor of detroit And he was celebrating his victory at the mayor's mansion And it was a wild party with Allegedly there was a lot of celebrities there and one of the Strippers that was allegedly there if the party ever took place because there's a lot of people who claim a never actually took place But one of the strippers that allegedly participated A couple months later Was killed And there's always been a Of a dark cloud Hanging over the kill patrick administration because of that party and because of that Yeah Yeah, I mean once once that story broke even though again nobody was even charged let alone convicted It just became a uh, you know, what's the cliche like a bridge too far? It was like people people started bailing Yeah, up until that point people were still standing by him with the with the racketeering and other charges People just bail it was too hot. It was way too hot And there was some people that i've talked to there was another stripper who ended up dead in atlanta A month or two after that that's never been been been really reported the name of the stripper in detroit that was killed was Tamera green they called her strawberry yeah, um, and there was uh Informants that and this has never been Confirmed, but there were informants that say that strawberry and kwami's wife Got into a physical altercation at the party. Yeah, that was that was publicly reported again It wasn't confirmed, but that was publicly reported and that his wife had to go To the either kwami's wife or or strawberry I don't remember which one I think it was strawberry had to go to the hospital and there's like a hospital report right and uh, yeah in terms of the idea that She's not the only one strawberry um I will confirm that People detroit pd people Are aware. Yeah of those of those rumors. That's all that's all in some of it is like What I've heard is and and this we're going down a rabbit hole. We'll be done in this in a second, but What I've heard is that Kwami might not have even known what these people were doing, but they were doing it on his behalf and it was probably if if anything was done Uh all allegations that have never been uh Confirmed but that you know, these were possibly people that were doing things to clean up kwami's mess, but Kwami had no direct knowledge of the the dirt that was being done to protect the kingdom that was the kill patrick Uh political kingdom that came falling down and is never recovered. He got pardoned by donald trump though Uh 28 years since that he did seven years of and now he's out and owes the city a million dollars and that the city will never see I could predict that I can predict that too. The city will never see that it is it is gross and let me it isn't and I don't I just want it drives me crazy when people try to paint that as a racial situation That was this guy was It didn't matter what race he was this guy was as corrupt as corrupt can be well and nobody nobody takes up for him I mean he was that he he's very unpopular in the city of detroit and the city of detroit is majority black city But he still is the race car to this day. Yeah, but I don't think anyone He got railroaded because the uh that he people in detroit couldn't handle a powerful black man and I'm like dude Anybody in your situation would have got brought down on a riko You were you were shaking everybody down your dad was shaking everybody down. Yeah, he was he was a bad Five minutes on detroit politics. Uh, this was fun. Um, we'll we'll uh Definitely keep an eye out. What's going on in buffalo? I want to have uh, uh, a buffalo guest on in the next month or two either a former Affiliate or a reporter or an ex uh law enforcement So I'm talking to a bunch of different people and I'm hoping that that will get one of them and we'll get their uh insight from you know ground zero All right. Thanks everyone for listening. Please follow subscribe and we'll see you guys soon. Wow