 This is Carl Ackerman, host of History is Here to Help, and I am so pleased that Colin Baker has taken the time to join us all the way from Virginia, and he is working now for the European Union, and helping to define the European Union for schools. And Colin, thank you very much for joining us, and I'm going to begin with your first question, and that is, can you define the European Union for us, you know, expecting that many Americans know what it is, but there may be some who do not. Right, well, good morning, Carl, I know it's a different time zone where you are. Yeah, so the European Union is just a relatively recent, the last couple of decades name had various names after World War II. But essentially it's a collection of sovereign nations who have pooled their sovereignty and the resources and start off as an energy club and it's developed into so much more. It's got 27 members started off with six was expanded since 1950s. And today is one of the largest economic groupings in the world, but its influence and power goes beyond economics is very important for liberal democracy. Well, Colin, that's a great definition and I want to sort of ask you because I know you're a historian that you are you are trying to really explicate the European Union in in the school systems, you know, not only in Virginia but across the country so I like you to sort of characterize your work and what brought you to this work and of course, I know that you have both Scottish and American citizenships probably right now case citizenship and United States citizenship. So how does that all work and you might tell us a bit about yourself in answering this question. I used to have EU citizenship as well until Brexit so I was that was strict for me a couple years ago that's interesting. That's another issue. Yeah, I work for a Jean Manet Center so Jean Manet is one of the three people behind me that's the one right behind my head. This is our conference room at Virginia Tech for our European Union Center and it's funded by Jean Manet funding from the European Union. And Jean Manet himself was one of the founders of the EU, but one of the education programs linked to the EU is named after him. So we get a grant from the EU Virginia Tech is a grant from the EU to establish one of these centers of excellence there's 11 in the United States there's not one in Hawaii but there's certainly several. There have been several there's at least one left in California. And his job really is to be a centers as a name implies of excellence but spreading knowledge about what the EU does about its importance about modern European studies it's not just EU focused. And that our center particularly is as a big long complicated name but it's Europe as a whole and and Europe's near abroad to so maybe we'll get chance to talk about Russia, or the Middle East or North Africa. And of course it involves NATO to one of the two flags behind me is a NATO flag. So we do work with NATO we have security experts as well. But essentially as Jean Manet Center has three legs to its kind of stool of work that is supposed to do in return for getting a grant in the EU. So we have visiting professors and they're like I'm saying security and economy and trade and all sorts of identity and culture and language, different parts of the EU. And then we have masters and undergrad courses minors and majors and European studies, but the third leg is where I come in is outreach. I'm not just a university and stays at academic level. They have outreach to the broader community, particularly down one level to high school level teachers especially but also to students. And that's where my involvement came through my work with the AP European history across the country and so I happened to be living here in the town and they sent the center up and I had already known the professor here and work with them who's a director and he asked me to be involved in this for three years now. No, sort of a large question here. Why does this matter, I mean why, why do you think the European Union is important of course, you know, following politics, you know in the news today with Ukraine, of course, people are well aware of what's happening in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe but you know, why do you think that this is important for Americans to know about, especially high school kids about the European Union. So it's important, the boring answer and the most important and really the reason the EU started in one sense, it was for trade, right and in a place like Hawaii where you import most of your products right trade is a big issue so promoting global free trade and having a trade union that can attract being a big enough trading block, it has a lot of influence on all sorts of things connected to World Trade patents and standards. And of course it can influence through kind of soft power I guess countries who are wanting to join the EU have to adopt so many of the EU values, we're talking democratic values. They want to get in for the trade benefits, but the EU is going to attract them to become like liberal democracies. So trade is definitely connected to democracy as well right so Eastern European countries joined the EU have to follow the Soviet Union and they actively try to reform their societies, so that the EU would accept them as members, and they would benefit less they have to accept that dramatically in the last 20, 30 years. Poland is a great example of that for a good example. So if we're interested in world trade and we're interested in liberal democracy around the world and values that we all share here in the United States, then Europe and the EU is a natural partner in that. I think the EU promotes a lot of free the four freedoms one of which definitely is economic but into trade but it's also freedom to move freedom to speak freely. And it's the things that we take for granted here in our democracy the EU's also promoting the same thing so it's like a natural partner with the United States, and so many areas, and then you could get into security as well as a whole different to open. I would be my first answer yeah that it's, it's a place continent that has a lot of power and influence and is a natural ally to what the United States is trying to do around the world as well. Do you think a colon that you're from your work and educating the youth of America, you know with 11 centers. Is it directly influenced do you think about your Scottish background, I mean the words do you think that you present a particular point of view, I mean not one, but many. That would be probably not as diverse in the in the real sense of that term meaning, you know, you know having different tangents. Had you had you been an American in that same position. Well, it's interesting that there's definitely an element of identity in the EU and you can be European but also be British, or at least used to be, and also be Scottish just like you can be Spanish and from Catalonia and are these competing identities are the overlapping you know, and that that's not just a European phenomenon is the same in the United States right and then many other parts of the world. So it's an interesting dynamic to to make students aware of that there are parallels to dynamics going on in Europe populism. How do you immigrants coming to your country that this is definitely a theme here in the United States. They're not quite the same as you how do you integrate them into your society should they share your values or can they live separate existences can you be have a dual national and identity and is that something that we value or not right and that's one reason Britain left the EU it definitely didn't want to accept as many immigrants as the EU, because of free movement of people was allowing but now Britain controls his borders but but then there's downsides to that businesses have suffered and so I guess my own personal background is I thought was a gigantic mistake to have Brexit and I'm not apologizing for saying that. But this is some people have said, why do you do this and I say jokingly it's my best revenge on Brexit right to work against the forces of populism and promote the European Union in the United States but I think there are so many other reasons to want to know about the EU and for our students. I could get into some of the programs that we run where they take on the role of EU countries and they debate with each other and they prepare. So it's, I'm not just a, although the center in one sense acts like an ambassador for the EU, it, it does so many other things right and connects students to wider issues that are really useful for when they go to college. Well, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to press you on that and what you just said and so, um, as you know for years I've worked at a school a large private independent school the largest private school in terms of population in the country. I announced to my students that we're going to have this gentleman by the name of Colin Baker come into our school and discuss the EU so what would you do I mean what would, what would be the, you know, the core curriculum and, and how would you handle all of this because the EU in itself, you know, I mean we would be going back to the coal and steel community and it's many years and many facets and so I just want to know how specifically you do this Colin. So, in, as you know, because you taught this for many years and AP European histories are the curriculum like in many elective courses you're going to the deal with world or European issues at high school. You're going to have some part of modern Europe like post World War two I'm talking about. And that's in the curriculum. But even if your course is not doesn't specifically cover the EU or if you're not even taking a history course like, for example, we have this EU Council debate each March you've done it for the past five years. Students regionally from around this area but we're trying to expand now to different parts of Virginia. This is the sort of thing that could be done in our schools and in Hawaii to where students take a role of one of the 27 EU member states countries and if you have more than 27 students you can have two or three or more in a group. 120 last few years students involved in five or six high schools. And they actively research their country's position on two or three pressing like current issues in the EU. And often we try to make the issue so that they're transactional so that you can take a position in one area and not be so firm in another and then you can negotiate. Right with trying to reach consensus with 27 members EU has to act together right it has to reach a consensus. So can you do that and Poland agree with Portugal right can Ireland agree with Greece right and on different issues that they might have different priorities on. So the students have this knowledge not only are the researching but they're also collaborating with other groups and it's over two or three days. They have a time to do online negotiating and then they meet in person and it works really well it's a joy to see it happen. All their hard work is suddenly into action now they're the ambassador of Slovenia and they've got to make the Prime Minister of Finland and can and they agree or negotiate on one or more of their issues. And they little huddles of form around the room and the students report back and just how much they've learned and just how much they've enjoyed and. And it's it's a it's a fantastic one of the projects one of the programs that we have here for high school students most of our programs are actually for high school teachers but that's one of the biggest and most visible events that we do. I'd love to do that. Yes. Can you can you further explain what you mean by programs for teachers and how that operates. Yeah, so. We have a program called transatlantic scholars where we pair up teachers from Ireland we have three and we pair them with three teachers in Virginia. And they collaborate throughout the year we've been doing this for the last couple of years. We kind of tweak the format a little bit each year that can be synchronous mostly asynchronous. And we try and pair teachers who have similar age students and classes that can overlap to some degree. So that's a program and they click collaborate not just just one on one is teachers but their classes can collaborate on projects and we put them up on our website Virginia Tech. For example, last year, one of the groups in Dublin and Ireland did a project on memorials and how. How memorials have changed and how they're being some have been defaced right and of course the group in Virginia with Robert E. Lee. And Monument Avenue in Virginia is that's all over the news and they were doing the same thing so they then they could share with the other group. A similar issue but involving slightly different figures and time periods perhaps as well. So that was immensely helpful and we students love doing that and teachers can collaborate there but we've also have a biannual conference we're going to have another one in November. Last time we had eight different states. I think the furthest West we did have someone want to come from Colorado but then turn out in the end we had people from Chicago, the Florida to New England and all over the East Coast come here to Virginia Tech. And we had over two days, we had a big conference or 25 teachers. We've managed to do Scottish country dancing and Irish Irish dancing and linking that to Appalachian culture. So it's not just lectures on or forums discussions on political economic events and they use culture and identity and we try and make it fun in the evening. And the whiskey tasting as well, which is a lot of fun. A lot of me teachers like that. So, these are some of the programs that we have and I can share my website with you and teachers can discover for themselves because we have plenty of online events with ambassadors and other things that anyone's welcome to join. Well, I'm glad you emphasize the teachers with a whiskey tasting so that's that's just great but do you have the possibility of teachers to have exchanges and students to have exchanges with the EU. You know, you, you and I both know that some of the most powerful educational lessons occur when people are actually placed in the setting. They're first to sort of deal with different cultures and in some cases languages. Right. We're exploring that there are some of the other EU centers, other Germany centers of the 11 and I states do have programs that the teachers at least get to go to Europe's a lot harder to do it for students. I'm not aware of high school students who travel to Europe or do exchanges through the German a centers but I know that there are programs for teachers to do that and if there is a. I think it's through. You see Berkeley that would be the nearest one to why but they have students that go every year to Brussels at message students they have teachers that go every year to Brussels. So that there is an opportunity for teachers around the United States to do that and perhaps if probably if you could fly to California then maybe they could fly fly you there to Europe but there might be an opportunity for teachers in Hawaii to do that and I can certainly provide you with details about that program. That's not run through us but it's run through other Germany centers there's a network that we all collaborate on. So from what you're what you're saying, all the 11 centers do have sort of a independent framework somewhat. Yes, I'm if they're doing, you know, you know, different things and as does the main funding come from the the original. Funding source that that's providing the money is also for Virginia Tech. There's different sources of funding depends on the different universities and they can come across a private funding to but the EU, most of the funding comes through the German a centers, you get a chair or university professor. There comes the chair and then you can get a center of excellence and then you can have a three year grant. That's what we've done over the past three years here at Virginia Tech. I'm just asking that the one that said Berkeley is it connected with the University of California Berkeley. I believe so. Yes. Would it be possible and I'm just asking because you know we here in Hawaii would love to have an EU center here. It would be attached to another center. For example, there's two centers and I'm thinking of the whoa international center at Puneau school, or, you know, also, you know, at the University of Hawaii, you know, with a variety of different centers and then also at Eleni school with their Sullivan center. Right, it has to be a higher ed institution. So we need to be the University of Hawaii. There are some schools who can apply for smaller grants, but recently the EU is respected that to just being European schools. So the only institutions in the United States that could apply for EU funding or EU center money would be a university. So, but the University of Hawaii could certainly do that. Apply for chair and then a center of excellence. That sounds wonderful because we have what's called the East West center that was developed in the 1960s. And actually interestingly enough developed by an art professor how that worked out, you know, who knows, but the East West center was sort of a, you know, a counter to during the Cold War to the old Moscow oriented. But in any case, it's very short as that would probably be the opportunity. Now, you know, one of the things I wanted to ask you today, which is extremely important to you and me as, as AP European history instructors. And that is, what's the effect. What do you see as a liaison in Virginia. What do you see the impact on the kids. You know, when you see these kids exploring the wonderful things that you were presenting them. How does that, how does that, you know, how does how does that affect them what's your, what's your takeaway from so from seeing what the kids are taking away. Right. This wonderful experience. High school and I teach high school as well. It forces in a college town. So students here are sort of exposed to some international things more than perhaps typical high school might be. But we make it a point to reach out to the local area and the area around here is very rural in Appalachia. So we have students teachers and come to our programs from as far away as North Carolina. And the neighboring states and then we had this EU debate in March where we had students high school students come from a very. You might say rural high school and what we heard their teachers say and these other teachers are conferences is, it's, it's like opening a window in a new world, right, they can go back to their students other students who come here can see it in person. And hey, I can do this. This is something I never thought even didn't even know what the EU was before right until we did research on this or my teacher presented it to me. And then we got involved in this as cool debate thing and my teacher gave me these resources from the conference. And we hear feedback that it's, it's open eyes of students that the to do something and to be aware and connected to different parts of the world. That's the way that they never were before. So that to me is really the whole ballgame right there. Right. You want to inspire curiosity and. Sure, you want to prepare them for college and there's all sorts of other benefits and teacher to write well. But when you're an educator what you really want to do is to have that light bulb turn on and their eyes wide open and hey, I didn't know I could do this right this was great. I was their mother. I was ambassador. I, the mother's actually spoke to me. She said, oh, so and so really enjoyed being the prime minister of Ireland. He was really turned on that now he might think about doing a political science degree college. I mean, that's, that's the sort of thing you want to hear from type of programs we offer. I, I was, I was intrigued by, you know, the, by your last comment about the student who really was motivated by, you know, the absorption of a lot of Irish culture in the Republic of Ireland, but do you see any kind of increase in not only interest in the culture but perhaps development in terms of languages because, you know, the, you know, the work has always been, you know, what, what, what country is monolingual and the answer is always the United States. But, you know, and getting these kids interested in, you know, French and Spanish and Italian, Romanian and Polish and God forbid they want to study Russian and things like this. So, you know, Russian is not a member of the you but I mean, maybe now Swedish and perhaps the most difficult language that I've ever come across outside of some of the Eastern languages finish, you know, the European Union. So, let me just ask you that question. So, you're asking how can students learn world languages or will they get motivated by this EU experience is like, you know, kids saying, oh, I was, I was, I focused on France and now I want to go and I want to be another meter and then I want to go or I want to learn French, you know. Yeah, I, well, we do at our conferences that we run every couple of years we do have language teachers come and so that would be more a question for them in a history setting. I think it's more of the diplomacy and negotiation that I see but I don't. There are students of course who are actually in my one of my own classes this year I had students from France, I've had students from all over different parts of Europe. And Belgium Luxembourg and they actually want to represent their own countries which is Croatia was another one this year. They're family the parents for Croatian they're like the Croatian American and now they get to be the ambassador for Croatia you know it's like a reawakening of their cultural roots so. But I'm sure that can happen for any American student they can just get interested in in a European country and I can spark a desire to learn more about them perhaps learn a language or study about that place and. And they're political science classes so yeah. So, let me, you know, we only have 2 minutes left so I'm going to ask you a broad question so that you can really it's you know the the ball will be in your court as we say, and in the United States Colin. But, you know, you are a historian by training. And so my my last question to you is, how do you think your history background is critical for your work here at the EU and coupled with that is. Why do you think that it's important for kids to learn the history of the EU. Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that because I think that one of the most important things about the EU sure it's liberal values and it's. Giant energy club and trade and all that is the fact that it's incredibly successful as a diplomatic as a as a tool to promote peace in Europe because when it was founded France and Germany as you know had fought many wars over the previous 70 years right. I think the question will work to it but now in the last 70 years France and Germany are in lockstep in this peaceful democratic club right so what a transformation the EU actually got awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for that right for promoting peace on the continent of Europe. Before Putin comes along but but nevertheless, or most of the last 70 years Europe has has had this period of stability and Pete and the large NATO is a big part of that definitely. And the United States has a big role to play in that too but the EU itself and promoting its values and things we talked about. That's why it's worth noting right it's a type is a formula for a type of association and that has been successful and promoted peace and that other regions of the world could learn from definitely. Well, thank you we're almost out of time, but thank you Colin Baker from Virginia Tech. This has been most enjoyable. And of course our goal should be to establish one of these 11 sites make it 12 in Honolulu and get you to come out here to Hawaii. Colin and do your magic with the European Union. Colin Baker again from Virginia Tech. Thank you very much. Thank you very much girl.