 How long have you been at Dartmouth now? Three years as of July 1st. So I always have felt like when you go from one job to another, that it's an opportunity to sort of abandon strategies that hadn't worked and adopt some new ones. Did you do much of that or was it? Yeah, because I have one, I had to do an evaluation of Dartmouth culture. You have to fit in as the CIO, right? You can't just go in and think that you're going to be walking out of an EVP job at a small liberal arts college and be in an EVP position when you're taking a VP position and you have people above you in a different hierarchical relationship and how those people integrate and work with each other is something you have to take into perspective. So I wanted to be myself, but I also recognized that I was taking a job and they had a goal for me. What a great tension built into what you've already said, which is you want to make sure it's a fit, but you also want to be a change agent. And that's a tension I imagine you've lived with for a while and found peace with it. Because I've been alive. You've taken me back to my imagining Mitch in third grade and I'm not sure how that went. I was the same kid. Well, we've been talking about change, you and I over the years, and always been interested in your comfort with working at the edge of things. I thought we might take some time just to probe that a little bit and think about it. And I'll start here that to me, one of the most complicating factors in the COVID pandemic has been the tendency to bring out deficit thinking, focusing on all the things that the pandemic has taken away or changed in a way that's uncomfortable. And I get a sense that you're seeing it a little differently at Dartmouth. So I'm going to step aside and hear from you on that. People get so wound up in the past that all their sort of intellectual ability is focused on thinking about what they could have been rather than what could be. And for me, I don't have all those free cycles. So I try to strip out anything that I can actually do and focus on something I can get done. And it's what I do every morning is I wake up in the morning and I think this is my first day in the job, my first day alive. What is it today that I can do to make tomorrow better? I've been doing some community conversations where I've been talking to folks and I've questioned, I've asked everybody, what was the thing you did best? Like what was your, that happened during the spring that you're particularly proud of? Almost everybody said some version of the same thing, which is I used to believe the narrative that higher ed can only move at glacial speed. And yet we discovered that we can do things way faster than we ever had before and do it, you know, better than we thought we could faster. So I imagine that's been part of the, what's happening at Dartmouth. All the promises of change in higher ed that people used when they were talking about MOOCs all came to true with COVID. It just took a few years. It just took eight years. All the change MOOCs into a thing, but COVID in a very short period of time has changed higher ed in actually a good way. Operationally, it has them focused and they started to learn that, hey, we can move fast. And actually in the future, we have to move fast. So if you think about this, this is like a primer for the future. It's preparing higher ed to actually operate in a way that it needs to be successful. It just needed a kick in the pants to do so. Are things going to go back to the way they were? I don't think so. I think there's permanent change. That permanent change is one just operationally as people are not all coming back to campus. We were already hiring people and not even having them move. That's a permanent change. How we, now we're able to recruit across the United States and maybe around the world were before that would have been highly resistant. Now it's just another option. And then how we work digitally is if you think of higher ed and sort of online education has been pretty stave for some time. I mean, I could go back 20 years and look at what we were doing for online education at Stanford. And it's not much different than what they're doing today. So you think in 20 years there'd be a lot of innovation but what you're seeing now with people, everyone being involved and there's a lot of energy and thought going into it. There's everything from VR, there's different ways of integrating with Canvas. We need tools. We're actually working on a project with Slack to build an integration of Slack into Canvas and they're kicking your money. We're kicking your money. It's going to be a service that's going to be available to anybody that's using Slack. That sort of business academic partnership is something that I've always fostered but it's becoming much more apparent and much more easier to do to the point where now we're actually having to say no to various projects because we have to weigh how much can we put in to all these sort of business partnerships that are out there to build tools that actually make education a better space in the future. So the environment's changing. The potential partnerships outside of higher ed are changing. What about the sort of the, I think in an email you referred to it as bureaucratic tendencies of higher education. Are those, is this a temporary change or is this going to continue past pandemic? I think it depends on the institution. The ones that are actually cataloging and sort of finding the attributes of the things that were successful and they want to continue forward and they're actually thinking about the future that's fine. A lot of people are again are back in that survival mode. How do we get through this rather than how do we thrive into the future? How do we take everything that we've learned and come out of this running rather than walking?