 One of the big, big value of traditional forest knowledge is when in times of adaptation what they do is diversify. Diversify the uses of forests. So managing forests for them is not just to produce certain kind of products but also to diversify habitats for instance and to create different kind of environments for not just products but also services. For instance in the in the mouth of the Amazon, the estuarine area, a lot of what they're doing in forest management now is they're managing the forest to increase fishing grounds. Since they are exposed to tidal flats they found that tidal flats actually favors for them to have more fish in the forest. Therefore the forest has been managed to produce food for the fish. So this is one innovation to adapt to these tidal flats that are having now in the mouth of the Amazon. You have to understand also forests in extreme events is can provide shelter for these people. One way to reduce the damage from extreme events is to have protection from forests. So in many ways what I see is people using the forest to have some kind of protection from rain, from wind, from extreme floods. The big lesson for them is to really appreciate the way how innovation takes place in the area. To really go there and see how people are using the forest. Not to come with the idea that we are going to teach them how to use the forest in times of crisis but how they are already doing that. There is a lot of know-how in the local people. You do have a lot of different systems as I said they are already in place. They are already tested, they are already useful adaptation. It's a matter of the government to value that, to document and value that and to incorporate as a resource in their adaptation programs. In terms of science we have, it's a challenging for scientists because we have to start thinking more systemically, more as a system and not outside disciplinary boundaries to measure all of this complexity that's there. The problem with traditional forest knowledge is that it's very complex and we can't just understand the function of the system by measuring for instance three diversity. You have to measure much, you have to really use including some social factors there and a lot of us as professional as a scientist we are not prepared to do that. Starting from the simple one we had to see this adaptation mechanisms, this what how much of this provides the new technologies for instance, new arrangements, new ways or new strategies which combine some the value of some ecological principles there or some social principles or some ideological or climatic principles that are embedded within the cultural value, the cultural knowledge of these people which in some ways you have to depend some myth, some oral histories and all of this information that scientists who love to quantify things don't appreciate that, but many answers are in the stories that they tell you. Many lessons, I can tell you some of the lessons and for instance these allegories, allegories of saying English, allegories that this woman in Brazil told me that nature is like people, so nature doesn't like to be naked, like people also don't like to be naked, so therefore if you cut all the trees the nature will suffer, so I was thinking what this woman was trying to tell me about naked forests, a naked nature, a naked people, then I figure out the whole story is how actually you can survive in just having a cutting all the forests and putting cows, she was referring to her neighbor who is having a lot of problems because she cut all her forests and put some cows there, she was criticizing them and at the same time telling me don't do that the same thing because you know my neighbor is having problems because her nature is naked and she's having problems, so it's the philosophical part of what they tell you, you have to start thinking what they want to tell you, it doesn't take a day, it takes a month for me to realize what these people are trying to tell me.