 Everybody has an opinion about the Arab Spring. It is striking to me how many people have very strong opinions about the Arab Spring, but with very little information, and with very little information about the diversity of experiences that countries have gone through in this Arab Spring. And yet you hear from senior politicians in the region, in the West, intellectuals, commentators, they are all sure that it is a wonderful thing, a terrible thing. And I think what we are going to try to do is to drill down and to try to understand this phenomenon, understand where it is going, and understand the political economic context of the region we are in. I think that while it began in Tunisia, the centerpiece of the Arab Spring clearly was in Egypt. We all have the memories of what it was like. In fact, it happened right after Davos. And in fact, we were all here while Tahrir Square was filling up, I remember talking to Amor Musa, who was leaving that night to go to Tahrir Square, which was probably a more important place to be than Davos at that moment. And so I'm going to start by asking his excellency, the Prime Minister of Egypt. Given where we are now, there are lots of Egyptians, as you know, who feel that they have been let down, that they expected something that was going to transform their government, their lives, it was going to create, depending on whom you talk to, a free, a modern, an open Egypt, a dynamic Egypt, and they feel as though that hasn't happened. What would you say to them? Well, as you rightly said, today marks the second commemoration of the Egypt Revolution. Actually, Tahrir Square, as we speak, has some people there in thousands. Those are the people that felt that they were not able to get from this revolution what they have been aspiring for. But expectations are different from various groups. And this is the nature of the transitional period. So though we're about to complete our democratic institutions, basic ones, because democracy, democratic values requires time and effort and patience and accommodation till we really inherited and will take time. But maybe in May we'll have, or April, we'll have our parliamentary election and the institutions will be in place. Economically, in the same time, we have inherited lots of difficulty and challenges. So this is the situation, is we need to strike a balance between achieving the targets of the revolution and the reality on the ground. It is not easy to do what the people wanted to do without a lot of hard work. People, you know, I think this is the story across many of the Arab Spring countries is the expectation, there was some over-expectation, I should say, but the reality on the ground, we were left out with shuttered economy and that would require assistance, would require support from within the region and from outside the region so we can live up to the aspiration of the Egyptian people. So if I want to tell those people in the Tahrir Square right now, demanding the, you know, the bread, freedom, social justice, human dignity, you know, after you eerie out your voice and your statements, please go back to work, work hard for yourself, for your people, for your family, because that's the only way to achieve the aspiration of the Egyptian revolution. You have to clear jobs. Let them go work, where do they work? Well, some of them have jobs. Maybe. In Egypt, particularly, there is a concern about the Muslim Brotherhood, about the prime minister. Before you start talking about the Muslim Brotherhood, before you start talking about the Muslim Brotherhood, I would like to say the following. I think that the dissatisfaction of people, the reason for that is that 50 or 60 years have gone by since these countries gained their independence, and there has been a revolution too. And I think that the way in which the regimes in place managed the region in general made people disappointed, because there were so many aspirations for development in the first 20 to 30 years. The regimes were able to control matters to their favor, and there were small groups of people who controlled everything, and this led to disappointment. So we moved from dreams to nightmare. And this nightmare continued about 20 or 30 years, depending on the country. Let us not forget that the Tunisian president remained in power for 23 years, and during that time, human rights suffered. There were no freedoms. Social justice suffered. The economy suffered. So it is normal that the people of these countries want equality. They want their lives to improve. But ever since the revolutions, things have been turned upside down, so it's really illogical to think that everything, all these problems could be solved in one or two years. So people have to understand that their freedoms will not be taken away from them again, but that will take time. There will be problems, but I think we will achieve good results in the end. Let me just come back to Egypt, because it is so central. But for the jobs, maybe they can go to Lebanon to work. You're almost welcome. One of the concerns people in Egypt have, as you know, in Cairo, but also in the West, is the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, the election of a Brotherhood president, and the constitution. And the fear in Egypt is that there is a danger that the freedoms that were about to be won are being reversed, that the constitution does not guarantee, for example, the rights of women as strongly as it should, the rights of minorities as strongly as it should, and that the Muslim Brotherhood is not committed to a truly liberal democratic vision for Egypt. Well, the only response I have for this is, the Egyptian people will not have any more a dictatorship. It's not gonna happen. I mean, I guarantee you that. The Egyptian people know what it takes to put down a tyrant, and they would do it again if they have to. So this is the guarantee for the future. But at the same time, I would also ask the people to ask the other world to respect the choice of the Egyptian people. They selected President Morsy as the president elected. They voted for the constitution. The challenges, I guess, will come into the implementation. And as I mentioned in my introductory, trying to respond to your first question is, I think the economic, the democratic value that we have to work on. Maybe this morning, we were in a session, and Mr. Blair mentioned that the biggest challenge in democracy, how the majority will treat the minority. And that's the case. That's the case in Egypt. We really need to adopt this, inherit that, inherit that to really accommodate the needs of the minority. Not winning an election means that you can take up everything. But these things will come with time. Prime Minister Mikati, I want you to elaborate on your comment. You think that in the Arab Spring, the crucial issue is the economies, the economic system needs to be able to generate jobs. Before answering this question, if I may say, today we all talk about democracy, freedom, transparency, governance, enhance the role of women. What are the meanings? This is a long process. And we cannot do it overnight. We cannot do it by one revolution, or one season, one spring season. It is a very long process, and we have to achieve this whenever we have the right culture at the end of the tunnel. That's what I believe. Definitely economy is very important. To create jobs and to create the right environment is the most important. How we can create this environment today with this kind of instability? We need a political stability. We need peace. What happened to the struggle between the Palestinians and the Israelis in the region? All this, we have to talk about it, and we'll be very frank to see how we can get to end of this tunnel. For this reason, yes, frankly speaking, I am not very optimistic about all this slogan, or generic words today. If I ask anyone what we want me to talk to tonight, they say, it's very easy. Talk about democracy, freedom, transparency, governance, women, but let us work for this. And this is very important. Let me ask someone who has built some of these institutions under the most extraordinary conditions. Salman Fayad, you have built functioning institutions in the West Bank. You have created an economy that has generated extraordinary growth over the last few years, and you've done it under very adverse circumstances. So what would be your advice to people trying to build these institutions? Thank you. With all due modesty, I contributed to that effort. I did not build institutions by myself. I contributed to an overall national effort that was guided by the need for us Palestinians to get ready for the emergence of a fully independent and sovereign state of Palestine on the territory occupied by Israel since 1967. And that was really the focus of the program which I've been associated. But this is an opportunity, the question that we raise for me to underscore the extreme importance of having functional institutions of government. And I think the challenge that faces all of us in the Arab world is to ensure that we have functional governments. In fact, I myself read what happened, the phenomenon that's known as Arab Spring, Arab Awakening, what have you, which to me, to my way of looking at things, is more in the nature of a revolution than anything else. And that is really what adds to the challenge that all of us face because we've been affected by it to varying degrees. How to manage expectations if this is a revolution? How is it that people in the Arab world can be accepting of a logic that says if only you can wait on us, things will be better? That's the serious challenge because this is what they had heard from the previous regimes as well. And I think people are right to expect dramatic changes, particularly given the backdrop against which that Arab Awakening happened. I think the jury is still out on this. The verdict is yet to be written in terms of whether or not the extent to which this is going to be successful. For it to be so, I think has to be given the chance. But that has to be analyzed in terms of what the nature of that Arab Awakening was about. Was it in response to democracy deficit or functional democracy deficit? And if so, how do we define that? Democracy in the way that it is practiced, perceived to be adequate elsewhere in the world, or democracy that is understood to really be more consistent with the region's understanding of a reasonable norm and standard of governance. Something that responds to the needs of people in a responsible way. Hence the importance of functionality of governance. And I think that's really a key challenge for all of us. The extent to which we're successful in coming up with functional institutions would help all of us in the Arab world to be convincing in terms of the capacity of various governments to be responsive to the needs of their people and therefore to manage expectations. This is really the political side of us, but this cannot be separated from jobs and from the economic dimension. Unless this effort is underpinned by recovery and quickly, the whole doctrine that is Arab Spring or Arab Awakening is going to be discredited as a matter of fact, because ultimately it's about jobs. The biggest challenge that faces all of us in the Arab world is high and rising unemployment, unemployment that's going to rise even further given the very high degree of uncertainty that currently prevails. The fact that the jury is still out on the Arab Spring, high degree of instability with the situation, particularly in Syria, continue to go in the way, tragic way it has been going, and until that is really settled in some fashion, it's going to be extremely difficult for us to be talking about the aftermath of the Arab Spring. These are all enormous challenges. It's very important for that to be taken into consideration. Are governments in the region going to be given delivery to carry out economic policies that are geared toward engineering economic recovery, creating jobs, and then later on to really address issue of fiscal imbalances, or is the world going to really expect governments undergoing transition transformation to early on adopt a tight fiscal policy stance, which is going to be to make it extremely difficult for them to create jobs and under conditions that are extremely not so conducive to the private sector to come in and invest and help create creating jobs. These are really important challenges. So the process I think is in set of parallel, both domestically in terms of the capacity of governments to really actually govern and deal with the aftermath of the Arab awakening, their capacity to create functional institutions, this is on the one hand, and on the other, in terms of how the world is going to really deal with those countries, how international financial institutions are going to deal with those countries. Are they going to really go to Egypt and say you have to reduce the deficit by such and such over a year's time, which by definition is going to mean higher and more unemployment, or is it going to really be based on a different kind of understanding? Our challenges in Palestine are those, plus of course the fact that we have to operate or had to contend with continuing oppressive occupation, and that these are really important challenges to deal with under any condition to really add to that restrictions that have come with acting or having to act under occupation made it all that more difficult for us. Prime Minister Ben Zedan of Libya, you face what seems to the outside world and even more dramatic set of challenges. The basic function of a government is to control the territory that it claims to govern. And many people look at Libya and wonder whether the government of Libya is actually in charge of all of Libya because of the role of tribes, because of the role of al-Qaeda affiliated groups. How much instability is there in Libya and how soon do you think the government will have that basic element of governance, which is the ability to say we are actually in control of this entire country? When it comes to the level of stability in Libya, Libya, I would like to assure you that there is a reasonable level of stability compared to when the war was still ongoing. Life continues at a normal pace when it comes to services. For example, in the major cities, the markets are open, the hospitals are functional. There are services which are getting better and better every day. There are some security problems from time to time. These are punctual events at certain times in certain places, but these events are dealt with when the government intervenes to solve the problems and deal with the revolutionaries. When it comes to the issue of whether we control the whole country, yes, we do. The head of the National Assembly was in Al-Kufra a few days ago and made sure of that. Two days ago, I visited Ghat and Ghdamis on the border with Algeria in a ways. These are very far off places. They're isolated, and it can be assumed that we are targeted there, but we were able to move around quite freely and safely. One of the problems in Libya is that at a certain time, the borders were wide open and we were only able to control our borders at a relatively late time. So some elements came through the borders at certain times. We are now closing our borders. There are now only three nationalities who can enter Libya without visas, Tunisians, Turkish citizens, and Jordanians. Other than that, people of all other nationalities require a visa to enter Libya, but we have put in place this measure to try to avoid security problems. So what I'm trying to tell you is that people have normal lives. There is relative stability. But if in the middle of the night there is a certain event somewhere, then that's a different thing. What happened in Benghazi, I think that there was exaggeration on behalf of some countries who took some preventive measures, and we can understand that. They asked their citizens to leave, but the reality is that these people of foreign nationality live very peacefully in Libya, and there are security measures to protect them. An al-Qaeda presence in Libya. It is said that that is so. There are some Islamists whose beliefs are close to those of al-Qaeda. But the reports we received from our security apparatus show that there are a few people who have come who are known to be affiliated with al-Qaeda, but there are not many. It's not really a phenomenon, shall we say. We cannot say that al-Qaeda has a true presence in Libya. So you do not believe the attack on the American consulate in Benghazi was an attack by al-Qaeda. The matter is still being investigated. We have not received any, we have not reached any final conclusions yet in this investigation. We have to talk to all of the witnesses and all the accused, and then we will draw conclusions. However, everything being said now is really just guesses. Let me ask you, sir. In Morocco, do you expect a reform process much like the Jordanian reform process in which there will be elections, in which there will be a spiral of elections and reform in which you will move towards an essential parliamentary system with a constitutional monarchy? I think you should have asked me this question two years ago. Because thanks be to God, we experienced the Arab Spring in Morocco in our own way. We modified the constitution in 2011. We held elections on the 25th of November 2011, which yielded a new political map. We have an opposition party which came first in the legislative elections and gained 107 seats. It's the first time in history that a party got more than 100 seats. On the 21st of November, the new government was created, which I had. The society mostly trusts the government. We have continued our work with the media. The parliament is functional and efficient. The situation in Morocco is stable. Our system is not based on a one-party system nor on the influence of the army. We have one family which has led the country for many years and which plays the role of referee, shall we say. His Majesty the King, after there were demonstrations, made a very courageous declaration. He took into account the demands of the people. He embarked upon constitutional changes. And thankfully, we have economic stability in Morocco. When we ask for loans, we obtain them. We have lines of credit, big ones, open to us. There are many tourists who continue to visit Morocco normally. Political life is not always easy. There is a strong opposition. There is difficult dialogue sometime. People ask themselves, is this government going to remain in place for a long time or not? But we consider this to be part of the democratic process. And thankfully, things have been going well so far. And we think that the problems you mentioned are now behind us. There are many people who believe that Morocco has backtracked on some of its reforms. What do you say to them? No, there have been no backtracks. There's no backtracking. We are experiencing a situation similar to all the other countries which are in transition. But thankfully, we have stability. Perhaps there have been steps backwards because there are certain people who were in place before the Arab Spring. And perhaps it does not serve their interest that there was an Arab Spring. And we have to achieve balance in society between rich and poor, for example. In today's Morocco, any citizen can say anything they want. Obviously, there are people who do not like the new situation. And so they put pressure on the government. And this is difficult for the government. And sometimes they try to put obstacles in our way. However, we are committed to reforms. And we want society to support the current government. I'm not trying to say that we have no problem so that there have been no attempts to undermine stability. But every time there has been a terrorist plot, it has been foiled. And in the last two years, we have not witnessed any terrorist acts. And so the problems we had, that is why I said, that we consider them to be behind us now. And obviously, we have problems related to this period. But mostly, we've overcome our problems. Mr. Mikat, let me ask you, as the Prime Minister of Lebanon, how serious is the problem of Syria spilling over into your borders? Many people argue that Syria will not implode. It will explode. And it will explode onto Lebanon, onto your country. All the neighborhood. And the neighborhood, but in particular for reasons you know with regard to relating to Hezbollah and such in Lebanon. How real is that danger? And if it's going to happen, my question to you is, what are you going to do? Because at this point, it seems as though it's already happening. There is a say in Lebanon saying, in time of nations change, please save your head. What does that mean? It means we are dissociating ourselves from what's going on in Syria by all means. We are dissociating because we have a kind of historical, geographical relation with Syria. And now today, if we take any position, really, we would be more boosting the division in our Lebanese society and between the Lebanese citizens. For this reason, we had the position as Lebanese government to dissociate ourselves. But this doesn't mean that we dissociate ourselves from humanitarian issues. Today, we are helping and receiving Syria without any limit. And why fully we are ensuring for them sheltering, medical care, schooling, food, everything. Also, this doesn't mean that we don't have to put all scenarios in front of us and to see what kind of implication will affect Lebanon in future. I don't know if it's time to talk about the options, but before talking about options, we have three questions we have to answer. When it's going to finish in Syria? How it's going to finish? And what's next? So whenever we're going to answer those three questions, they're very good ones. Tell me when, tell me when Assad will leave. Tell me what will replace him. So far, nobody is answering this question, believe me. And always in my discussion with all world leaders, nobody is answering. When, how, and what's next? Who can guess? For this reason, today we are taking different options depending on the answers and apply on this, on those questions. Should the Arab League put greater pressure on Bashar al-Assad to do that? We are disassociating ourselves. And here, as prime minister of Lebanon, Mr. Prime Minister, you may disassociate yourself from Syria, but Syria is not disassociating itself from you. Definitely. You're getting thousands of refugees every week. We are not disassociating from himitarian. We are receiving them and they are most welcome. And always we have to do what Lebanon do. It's an obligation. And we are ready to serve the Syrian in Lebanon. But you don't want to get involved in the politics? In the politics, we don't get involved because God knows what will be the implication on Lebanon. How it's going to finish? That's the question here. You're saying all the neighborhood, all the region, what will be the future of the region if we take any scenario? How it's going to finish? That's the answer. Should the government of Egypt, as in some ways the historic leader of the Arab League, should it take a much stronger position? Should it be trying to make sure that President Assad recognizes his days are numbered? Yeah. We cannot disassociate ourselves from what's happening in Syria. And it is impacting everybody, whether this is directly or indirectly, in the region and in the world. What do you do? I think the best thing is to try to end this soon when the sooner the better. How peacefully, as much as possible, what is next? It is to be much better if we can negotiate it beforehand. And this is the philosophy of our support. I mean, I see my colleague here shaking his head. Yes, but how do we do that? Of course, it is very difficult. I wish we had the magic answer for that. It is difficult. But you need to talk to the key players in the region, the people that have stake in Syria. You need to talk to the Iranian. You need to talk to the Russians. You need to talk to the, of course, to the Saudis, Egypt. And you need to work together so we can craft this out. This bloodshed has to end. Everybody watch this in the news every night is horrible. And it is impacting everybody. The refugees are coming even to Egypt in hundreds of thousands. And we feel their pain. And we sympathize with them. But the most difficult thing is the aftermath. If we don't design that, if we don't engineer that, then it will be a real mess. This is the message that we're trying to convey. But shouldn't you be doing that? I mean, when you say you should talk to them. We are talking to them. We haven't strike the solution yet. This is the fact of the matter is. But we are working on it. We are working with our allies and colleagues and friends in the region and outside the region to convince Mr. Assad that this cannot go on and to convince him that if we can negotiate a deal now, it would be better than later. And it is the best interest of anybody. And obviously, we have not been successful until now. But do you get the sense many people believe that Mr. Assad is going to fight to the end, that there is a sense that the Alawites feel that they will be slaughtered in a post-Assad situation. And so there's no reason for them to not fight to the end. I think if we discuss this genuinely, there must be a solution to this. There must be a way out. But I don't think that we are to that stage yet. I'm unfortunate. Prime Minister Fayad, how does this impact on the Palestinian situation? Because Syria has had, it has always had a connection. You can't disassociate yourself from it. Obviously can't. As everyone knows, there is a substantial Palestinian presence in Syria that has been since 1948. And they were once adversely affected by development in Syria. Of course, before them, Syrian population, to whose plight we Palestinians cannot be in the front either. But to have Palestinians in dual, having to emigrate time and again and to find themselves in Lebanese refugees, refugee camps in Lebanon is absolutely devastating. We have tried desperately to keep Palestinians out of that conflict. But that was not completely successful, resulting in additional tragedy. As I said in my earlier remarks, difficult for me to think past Arab Spring or Arab Awakening while Syria is going the way Syria has been going ever so tragically. But I go back to what it is that needs to be done to really give this phenomenon some credibility, which I think is important, given the overall values that this phenomenon was supposed to respond to. I think it would be complete travesty. If end of the day, after all, it's said and done. People in the region would find themselves having to make a choice between either having stable governments or democratic governments. And I think that would be travesty. And I think governments now in power have special responsibility in ensuring that would not happen. This phenomenon happened in response to citizens in the Arab world feeling that they were not enfranchised. They were not really getting the rights that other citizens around the world got from their governments. The respect that the citizens should get from their government. And I think a delicate balance has to really be struck between, on the one hand, the need to find just enough space for governments to function, while at the same time giving them the room to once again get the economy to begin to move again, something which is not really easy under conditions of continued conflict in Syria and violence. And with the Arab Spring itself not having settled down completely elsewhere in the Arab world. And all of us have been affected by this directly or otherwise to varying degrees. And I think that balance can be found in governments being very serious about truthful to the principles that brought them to government when it comes to political reform. I think when it comes to questions of equality, for example, an approach that's half-baked toward that objective is just simply not credible and has gone to discredit political reform. So I think on issues of political reform governments must really be forthcoming, must be progressive and true to the values that brought them and they say that brought them to government. They should really strive to creating institutions that are responsive to people's needs in a fair and equitable fashion. I think it's about time for governments to be extremely progressive in dealing with the rights of women, for example. There's no justification whatsoever for this to be only you give us more time. And similarly, youth issues, they cannot really continue to be overlooked and give us more time. I think governments are forthcoming on those issues. Then they really can buy the right, just enough time to begin to engineer and generate some recovery because political reform is going to suffer badly if the economic side of the house would not move and the economic side of the house is not going to move under the existing conditions of turmoil. Mr. Kandil, let me ask you, Prime Minister. There are a number of Egyptian women who have told me that they believe the situation of women in Egypt today is worse than it was under Mubarak. Well, I'm not sure, you know, but I have five daughters myself and my wife, so I don't think they agree to that. Well, they would probably, they're doing fine. They're living in the Prime Minister's house. My friends are not. No, I mean. But there is a feeling that in Egypt there has not been much progress on women's rights and there has been a rise of a populism that has been quite sexist and... No, let me explain that. It is clear that some voices that want to limit the freedom of women, that's clear. But that's the name of the game. People can speak out their thoughts and their words right now, but it is the focus. We had this guy that was irred out one time in TV that he wanted to put down the pyramids and the Sphinx because people used to worship them. So he said, let us put them down. You know, you can always find the crazy people in one person in the street. You don't give them a half an hour TV or an hour airtime to speak about that and you think this is the creator, this is a phenomenon in Egypt. We don't ever have that in America just so you know. Well, we had this. So what I'm saying is, of course, there are people that letting women down. There's a group of people that would do that, but it's not the mainstream of the Egyptian people. You know, the mainstream of the Egyptian people respect women. And that was in the preamble of the constitution. The women are our mothers, our sisters, our daughters. And if you read the Egyptian constitution, it talks about persons afterwards. So at the preamble, it talks about women, the importance of women. And then it talks about Egyptian. It doesn't talk about their sex or religion or sex. It continues talking about Egyptian as persons. So that's the whole thing. Mr. Ebb, do you want to say something? I believe that the West must be aware of something. Now, after the revolution, the West wanted to deal with Arab regimes that were similar to his own regime, similar to his own situation. They thought that the situation would be similar to what they had in the West. However, the people in the Arab world don't want that. They want respect for their own specificities. They have their own conditions and their own contexts. What do we want as Arab people? We don't want women who wear the veil to remove the veil. We don't want women who don't wear the veil. We don't want to force them to wear the veil. We want everybody to be free. We don't want to force anybody to do anything. Now, of course, we are witnessing this movement and this transformation in our society. And we have some people who might force their wives or their daughters to wear the veil or to remove the veil. However, this is not the opinion of the mainstream of the population of our countries, of the majority of the population. We don't want anybody to impose anything on us. We want our own way of life. We want to be able to change the past conditions, the past situation. We want to change that lack of freedom, that lack of democracy, that lack of openness that we had in the past. And we want the West to accept us as we are. We want them to accept our specificities. We are not Western countries. We are Arab countries. We have Muslims. We have Christians. And we have Jews who live in our countries. And we have all lived in peace in the past. Now, we still have Jews living in Morocco. And they are a minority. And they enjoy their full liberties, their full freedoms. And they are respected by the population, by the Muslims in the country. We have women who wear the veil and women who do not wear the veil. However, what we ask of each citizen is to respect the law. And I think that you in the West must take care and must be aware of that. Another issue, it's about Syria. Let's talk about the women's issue, because it's an important one. First of all, nobody in the West is trying to get women to take their veils off. The issue, as described in the Arab Development Report, written by an Arab woman, is that there are three great deficits in the Arab world. And the third one is the rights of women. This is written by an Arab about the Arab world with enormous amounts of data. By any comparison with the rest of the world, the status of women in the Arab world is poor. So I think part of solving the problem and dealing with it is to acknowledge that it exists. My own humble suggestion would be that you can make this into an anti-Western crusade. But the truth of the matter is the women in the Arab world deserve that. No, I didn't say that intentionally. But I have not blamed the West. I have not blamed the West. And I don't know why you applaud. Usually, we applaud in Morocco. And we hold elections and applaud in Morocco, not here in Davos. I have not said that the West is to blame. I said that the West wants us to be at its image, to be similar to it. But do you deny that you have supported Ben Ali, who has denied the Tunisian woman the right to wear the veil? Can you deny that in the West? You cannot deny that. So let us speak in all honesty. You talk about freedom, and we talk about freedom, and it's the same freedom. You talk about democracy. And we also accept this democracy. But if you talk about democracy and want us to be democratic, and then we hold elections, and we have Muslim parties who govern us, you say we don't like your democracy. We are people who have a say, who express themselves, who vote, and who have taken the initiative, and who want to be at good terms with the West. We want to develop our relations with the West. We want to develop economic relations with the West. And we believe that the West can help us. We believe that the West has its and carries part of the responsibility for the situation in Syria. And we also carry part of the responsibility for the situation in Syria. However, we think that we need to find a solution to the situation in Syria. And we need to find a different president in Syria. And we all have our share of responsibilities here. Now, if you talk about this report, this human development report, and this report written by a woman, we have 150 million women living in the Arab world. And some of them are happy with the situation. Some of them are not happy with the situation. Some of them have written reports. Others have not written reports. However, they all have a will, and we must respect their will. They don't want anything to be imposed on them. They want to enjoy their freedom, and they want their freedom to be respected by others. They don't want to be forced to do anything. They don't want anything to be imposed on them. And I believe that trying to impose anything on them would have negative repercussions on us all. I see that they are now applauding for you. Oh, good. They're now applauding for you. Mr. Ben-Zadan. You do it. It's only normal, because I'm a leader in my country. It's only normal that they applaud. But they used to applaud for Ben-Ali, too, so be careful. So, Mr. Ben-Zadan. No, no, no, no, no. There is no harm in uploading. I don't think that any applause could create leaders. It seems that Mr. Zakaria, it seems that you have a little bit ignored me. I would like to say that the Arab Spring happened because of the oppression that was taking place in the Arab world by Arab leaders in the past. This is something that is well known. And we have to admit that we did not enjoy our public and our freedoms. It is true that women did not enjoy their rights. And this is something very important that we must acknowledge from the very beginning. Our societies need to re-examine a number of issues. I'm not talking here about Sharia. I'm not talking about Islam. I'm talking about a number of practices that were taking place in our country's practices against women, against human rights, practices against journalism, against the press, that practices that were taking place in our countries, and that must end. We now talk about democracy. And I believe that democracy cannot prevail if we do not respect human rights, if we do not respect the rights of women, if we do not respect public freedom, and if we do not provide the environment that is conducive for development, that is conducive for education. We also must ensure economic development and political progress, political development. These things and these principles are very important. And this is why the Arab Spring took place at the end of the day. And I believe that such principles are still not respected in our countries. Such freedoms are not yet respected. We still have a long way to go, regardless of what the West thinks or does not think. We don't really, we should not really mind what the West says. The West can speak and say, and we also can speak and say whatever we think. However, I believe that the reform process must start from us, must start from the Arab world, so that we would bring back the human dignity to each citizen. We must respect individuals. And we must not force any citizen to do anything that he or she does not want to do. I believe that the Arab Spring happened because of the oppression that we were living under. That oppression took away our freedom, took away our liberties, took away our human rights. And that is why I believe that we need this revolution. We needed this revolution and we need reforms. Now, the Arab Spring, we still don't know exactly what the root causes of the Arab Spring happened so that we can find solutions to those root causes. We need to have, we need to examine the situation. We need to find a jurisprudence for this Arab Spring. We need to understand why it happened. We need to put in place a number of principles, principles that relate to the respect of human rights, to economic and political development, to the development of our rural areas, of our desert areas, and of all remote areas in our countries. We need to respect democracy and we need to ensure that we are capable of building institutions and of building a state that is governed by the rule of law and by laws and by democracy. A democracy that must be clear, a democracy that is based on the separation of powers and on a free and independent judiciary. It is this way that we must examine the Arab Spring. It is this way that we must try to solve our problems. I'm going to have to hold all of you because we have to go to the audience to take a few questions. As I said, if you can make sure that they are actually questions, Ken Roth. The Moroccan Prime Minister said that people were free to say anything they want in Morocco. And the Egyptian Prime Minister said that while he urged respect for the electoral choice of the people, that that government must operate within limits of rights. Those are very good statements. But each of your governments has used criminal defamation to suppress dissent. Morocco, just this week, is prosecuting a journalist. In Egypt, there has been just an explosion of criminal defamation prosecutions under the current government. Would you both commit your governments to repealing criminal defamation as a violation of freedom of expression? Why don't you go first, Mr. Cohen? My friend, I mean, I hope you will put a lot to protect the prime ministers. I mean, I've been pounded by sometimes unfair and lies that, I mean, lately they put in my name that they said, and I mentioned that today, we need to claim our rights in the lands of Libya. Never said such a thing. That could have created problems, not just for our relationship, but for, you know, risk the lives of the Egyptians living in Libya. You know, I think the freedom of speech doesn't mean that you go wild. But however, you know, we realize that this is a transitional period and we understand these things. So we work on them, we talk to them, and personally, I have never pursued any journalist for the things that have said wrongly on me or my people. I don't know if there have been cases of defamation in Morocco, too. Can you provide me with more information? What problems happened in Morocco? This is the head of Human Rights Watch, so I imagine he actually could provide you with a great deal of documentation. I mean, just three days ago, there was a journalist, Gabriel, who was prosecuted. There's a big movement in Morocco to repeal criminal defamation. People can still be sued civilly for defamation if they defame someone, but to prosecute somebody criminally is a penalty that is widely considered to violate international freedom of expression. Both of your governments are making regular use of criminal defamation prosecutions, and I'm asking whether you'd commit to stop that. Let's make some news here at Davos. Commit to repealing this. What's in your heart? What's in your heart? What's in your heart? What's in your heart? After you're going to the committee. Let me answer it. I want to... Can I respond, please? I think that this shows that things are excellent in Morocco because only one year after the elections, which were held on the 29th of November, if there was only one trial three days ago for someone who engaged in defamation, then I think that that shows that there have been no violations of the law in Morocco when it comes to the media, compared to how things were a few years ago in Morocco and in other countries. You'll see the difference. Do you want us to move forward, but do you want us to become Switzerland in one day? I'll tell you that's impossible. We have a law, and for example, our laws say that you cannot say anything bad about the king. That's our law. This is the way things are in our country. But you can criticize the prime minister all you want all day. I'll speak less than a minute. For Mr. Kiran, I was in Marrakesh for the holiday season. I read the papers by force of habit. Every day there were front-page stories of corruption. Is it the case that now corruption is more freely reported and was suppressed later, or did it increase under the prime minister? For Mr. Andy, I'm still 15 minutes. No, you've got one question. Thank you. Very quickly on corruption. There has been no report of corruption when it comes to myself, Mr. Ben Kiran, or my government. But it's true. There are things that are written and said about corruption. Some of what is said and written is true. And what is true is followed up on in one way or another. But then there are other things which are not true and obviously cannot be followed up because they're not true. And just because a newspaper writes something doesn't mean that it's true and we have to follow it up. We are committed to respecting the law. I recognize that there are some people who have enjoyed impunity so far. However, if these people continue, then one day they will have to face justice. One last question over there. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I'm Mohamed Rifati from Libya. I would like to comment and raise a quick question. No comment. Okay. Just a quick question. What is the debate today? And also another similar debate. A question. Really, otherwise we're going to move there's a gentleman there who wants it. The question is, do you think that the debate has moved us from the core issue that were pertinent two years ago, which was youth unemployment and dignity? And we've moved to a spectrum where I think we have retracted back to what was the debate, maybe seven or eight years ago. This is not a question. So why don't you ask your question? Yeah. I'm sorry, it's not respectful to the rest of the audience. Yeah. Just a question actually to both the ministers, prime ministers of Libya and Egypt. I mean, one reason we've had the uprisings was basically the corruption has been mentioned plus the economic inequality. Now, what a lot of people are saying, specifically in those two countries because the things have happened that sense of uprising is that the old blocks on the, sort of all the kids on the block have been replaced by the new kids on the block. So the corruption and the elitists are still benefiting the new ones like the old ones were. So there's no change from the old to the new. What would be your answer to that? So there's definitely a change. I mean, I tell you, and I know that by heart that the people in charge are not corrupted and they refuse that you say such a thing. And I actually, I would ask you to apologize for that because people are working night and day for the best interests of the people. The big change is now that people, their work, whatever they do, come to them. Not like the other old neighbor, I mean, the old kids on the block or the old way of doing things or benefiting small group of people. Things have changed tremendously, but what we have left on, the big burden of economic problems due to the previous corruption is what's hindering our ability to achieve the aspiration of the Egyptian people and I trust in other countries as well. Mr. Ben-Zedan, a quick comment on the issue of, has the corruption stayed the same part of the argument, I think, is that the state still controls large parts of the economy. The revolutions were carried out because of corruption. And I can't say the corruption just disappeared overnight. Perhaps there is corruption, maybe there will still be corruption in the future, but one of the goals of the revolution is to change mentalities and to change certain practices that were in place after 42 years of a regime which worked to destroy people. We are trying to change all of that. But we can't change things overnight, especially not mentalities after all these years. Ma'am, and the last question to you, yeah. Yes. A very quick, yeah. The region are not only a function of what governments or the people of the region want, it's a very strategic region and we know how much interference there were from the rest of the world. I would like to hear the reading of the various, their excellencies, the prime ministers, of what are their geopolitical interests and what's their effect on what is going on today. It's a wonderful question, but we'll have to leave it for another time because we have two minutes. I want to close, unfortunately we have to close, by just saying, for those of you who have followed what I've written or said on television, I have been optimistic about the Arab Spring and I persist in being optimistic by just pointing out the nature of this panel and the nature of this conversation that we have had. Imagine if two years ago you had had a panel with the head of the Libyan government, the head of the Egyptian government, the Lebanese and the Palestinians would have been the same articulate and in Morocco. I think the fact that we can have this kind of an open, honest conversation about all these issues is a sign of progress. It doesn't mean that these goals have been reached, but I think it's- Why are you talking about the moroccan? I did not forget, Morocco. Because you acted so fast in your reform process, I think that two years ago maybe you would have been here. And so I was being careful. But I think that that itself gives one a great deal of hope. And I wonder on that note, ask that you all give these gentlemen a wonderful round of applause.