 Coronaville, what's next here on Think Tech? I'm Jay Fidel, Stephanie Dalton, Tim Appichella, Cynthia Sinclair, and Winston Wells who's outside of wireless range. Oh, Winston, hope you're watching. Okay, so we're gonna talk about today, we're gonna talk about really interesting. If you push your head under the pillow, we'll COVID go away. We're talking about COVID here, so much to talk about. And the first thing I would like to discuss is Trump's COVID legacy. So Tim, what is he leaving behind? If we stop the world right now, what has he given us? What contributions has he made to our country and our planet in terms of leaving a world of COVID? Well, leading the world of COVID, there is no leadership in COVID. So the legacy that Donald Trump leaves is a trail of death. And specifically, we're probably talking 130,000 or more. If you look at each individual and the life they represented here on Earth and the figuratively pebble into the pond and the ripples that that individual left, the legacy is horrific. Think of all the sons and daughters and parents and friends and family that no longer get to enjoy that individual's company. And Donald Trump is directly responsible for the deaths of at least, I think at least 150,000 American lives at this point. And so the legacy is horrific. It's a horrible legacy to leave as our president of the United States. And you don't follow him to his last of his days. Yeah, and it's more than just the deaths in the cases. He's left confusion. He's left a lack of respect for science. He's left a, what do you want to call it? Pandemonium among the scientific agencies and organizations and medical organizations. He's left ultra-conservatives still denying it and planning kidnappings over it. He's left us no vaccine. He said he was going to do that and no effective therapeutic. He's left us a wrecked economy with people starving. He's left us with a divided Congress that can't get its act together and put out some more cares money. He's left us with the CDC, the FDA, the NIH and the White House with no credibility. In fact, the country with no credibility. And I haven't even started overseas. But Cynthia, you had some numbers you wanted to share on this. What are they? Well, there was a big study that was just done by a lot of experts all over the country. I saw an interview with a professor from Columbia University who was part of the study and they have said that if there had been aggressive tests and trace masks and social distancing done from the very beginning, Tim is right. We would have avoided 130 to 210,000 deaths, which means we only would have had about 12,000, maybe 20,000 deaths all total instead of 222 and rising. We had, if you can imagine, 60,000 cases just yesterday and we had 1,200 people that died in one day. So we're losing 1,000 people almost a day. It's just crazy. So beyond the death and the destruction of that, which is huge to think about families that have been torn apart, kids who don't have parents anymore, parents who've lost their children before they died, which is the hardest thing I think anyone could ever go through. And 31 states have an increase in cases right now. Nobody knows what the truth is anymore. And I think that's the biggest thing that he has laid waste to and that's true. The minute that Kellyanne, what three years ago said, well, those are alternative facts. That was it. That was the beginning of the unraveling of what truth really is and the fact that we don't, we don't know what it is anymore and we can't trust it. And that's big. Yes, Stephanie, how do you see the legacy? What legacy has he left the country and the world with in terms of COVID? Age of mendacity in government. That's all it is. That's the key word, mendacity. Everything's mendacious. He's lied about everything. And while it looks like it might be incompetence and I was thinking incompetence were above, but then when you start to come down to specific instances and examples, you see that there's quite a bit of know-how and planning and what it is that he's seated along the way. For example, I was at Kapiolani Hospital January, like the 25th or 26th, because it was a granddaughter problem. And while things slowed down, I asked the doctor about what is this COVID thing? What is this, whatever it is that's going around? And this was a pediatrician, but he said, well, I understand it's a virus and I do know that they're coming into the emergency room downstairs and we can't do anything to look at them or count them or anything because we don't have any tests. We are not able to get any tests yet from the CDC because of, and there is no test because of whatever reason we don't understand what it was. Well, ever since that date and then it went on for weeks until Hawaii got tests as the other states just being more close, they didn't get tests much faster than we did. But so right from that point, right at the get-go, there was something seeded in there by I believe the President Trump and it was doing something to kind of get in the way again of these counts and bring any much less. Not telling the truth. So Tim, aside from the mendacity, there's this warring. I mean, Trump wars with everybody he ever appoints. He appoints them and then he gets into a big fight with them. There's nobody exempt from that. He's been through so many, I don't wanna say hundreds, but close of people he's appointed and then shoot out of his administration or sideline. And most recently he's doing that to Deborah Birx and Fauci and Fauci has people who make death threats on him and his family and he's gotta have, you can see 60 minutes last Sunday. He goes down the towpath in Washington for his morning run and he's got a secret service on all sides of him protecting him from an attack. So what is it about this? I mean, the trouble thing is that why would Trump attack Fauci who was such a statement of credibility? Why would he sideline? There was a woman back when really in March he sideline her, she was pretty good. There was an article about that recently and he sideline Birx too. He sent her into the hinterland to make her go away. Why does he do that? What is in it for him? What are the options and what do you think is the reason that he destroys his own experts? I believe this is a political calculation and specifically geared towards the reelection on election day. And my rationale is this, Donald Trump tried everything to change the subject from COVID to other things be it Jerdon Joe Biden and his son be it that or any other host of shiny objects he tried to get the attention away from COVID because he knows that sticks. He knows that a majority of this country holds him responsible for the lack of leadership on the response to COVID. So he tried to change the subject and it didn't work. So what do you do? You tack back into the wind. You aggressively go after those that have the credibility and it's a classic propaganda strategy of scapegoating. You're gonna find someone and you're gonna say it's his fault or it's Dr. Bricks' fault. It's not my fault and that's what he is doing. That's why he's calling Dr. Fauci an idiot and with the other virologists that understand science he calls them all idiots because it's not my fault. I listened to these idiots. And so it's a classic tactic. Yeah, he's blaming Fauci for 500,000. He says, if it was up to Fauci, we would lose 500,000 people to COVID. Of course there's no basis for that statement but he's blaming Fauci on the deaths, imagine. Well, remember that Donald Trump is the savior to all things, to all people. And this is just one more example of his ability to be the savior. If it wasn't for me, you'd have 500,000 deaths under Dr. Fauci. I mean, what a ludicrous statement but that is his statement. Actually his statement was we would lose between 2 million and 2.5 million if it wasn't for me. And I get a 10 on my efforts. But let me ask you one other thing about that, Tim. What about the task force? Do you understand what has happened? What has happened to the task force? Cynthia wants to talk about that. Well, briefly I would say that Olivia Troy, she actually resigned and said, I'm going to speak out. I think Dr. Fauci in his own way has tried to minimize being in conflict with Donald Trump, but he's speaking out. I think Dr. Redfield in his way tried to speak out but less effective, of course. But in their own ways, they're all trying to say science must prevail. Donald Trump is not a scientist. In fact, he's the anti-scientist. And you know, follow Donald Trump and we will have 2.5 million deaths. Yeah. So you wanted to add something to that, Cynthia. So you asked the question of where did the task force go? And I was just saying, poof, they disappeared. They're gone. They don't have meetings really anymore. They don't get together anymore. And you know, I have a quote from Fauci. And it's kind of been, it's like Trump went away from his own task force and started listening to this guy and I can't remember his name. Atlas, Scott Atlas. Yeah, the guy that's a radiologist. And anyone who thinks herd immunity is gonna be such a great thing. And that's what Trump wants all along too because he doesn't want to have to do anything. Yeah. Well, you noticed that there was a time when he was in the Rose Garden making political statements and insults. It called it a task force briefing or a COVID briefing. That has also stopped, hasn't it? Well, that's because he kept shooting himself in the foot every time he'd get out there. So finally he said, I better not do this anymore because people are starting to see what an idiot I am. But you know, with the bleach and the lights and the let's put them in our bodies stuff. I have a quote that's pretty important for Fauci that I think is maybe one of the key parts that made Trump go after him so bad. If you talk to anybody who has any experience in epidemiology and infections and infectious diseases, they will tell you that that is risky in regards to herd immunity. And you will end up with many more infections of vulnerable people which will lead to hospitalizations, overload and death. So I think that we have to look that straight in the eye and say it's nonsense. And when he started really coming out firm and direct about, you know, you can't listen to this guy, we can't go down that road. And he really started to stand up to what Trump was trying to push on us is when it all shifted and we had to go after Fauci. Yeah, true. So let's talk about the shiny objects, you know, as both Tim and Cynthia have said, Stephanie, that he wants to change the subject in the worst way. He doesn't want to talk about it. He wants to claim that it's over. He's solved the problem when in fact it's worse now than it ever was. And then he has all these other things, these other shiny objects, you know, the insults are only one of them. But he's doing a nonproliferation agreement now with Russia, even though he's the one that pulled the wings out of it a few years ago. He's got all these things going on. He's got William Barr doing lawsuits against Google. And now the Republican Senate is subpoenaing Twitter and Facebook. And the whole thing is like looney tunes because the only issue in the country is COVID. So, you know, what is on his mind about that? The shiny objects thing and are the shiny objects, can there be a legitimate shiny object here? Are any of these things that distract us real? Yes, because he's going after those, the Russian arrangements and others like you just listed because he wants the Nobel Peace Prize. So he has got his application in for the Nobel Peace Prize and he's supposed to get that for coming up with Russia. And I'm sure this is something he was working on with Putin that there's going to be some accommodation here so he can get that. Of course, Obama got one. So that means Trump has to get one too. But the problem is also going on. He's just a major or anything that comes into his head. And unfortunately, he's got a pretty good imagination. I mean, like this poor guy, Christopher Wray, who's tried his farndest to do FBI well. I vote for him. He's great and he gives us malice. But he's out there with that stupid convocation yesterday and he has to stand there and do that and be told. And even though he did that, Trump is still thinking about today firing him. So well- I think that's why he's thinking about firing him because when the press took the Radcliffe statements to be from Trump but the press pointed out that Wray was not joining in those statements. About how Iran and Russia were interfering with our election. So I think he liked what Radcliffe said because it was what he wanted Radcliffe to say, another shiny object. He didn't like what Christopher Wray had to say. So now he's going to fire him. Yeah, and Radcliffe was scripted and Wray said the minimum he could say. But this is what's going on right now. I think all these people in these policy jobs are trying or they're not policy jobs. They're regular ongoing jobs. They're just hoping they can make it through the last 10 seconds here of if he wins, if he loses. So I'm really- Stephanie, is it a good strategy to throw shiny objects every 10 minutes with all these tweets and outrageous insults and crazy distractions? Is it a good strategy? Is it working? Because the fact is that COVID is largely forgotten among large sections of the population. This is an incompetent guy. He has no policy. I don't believe he's done the day's work in the office. It's the strategy working. And it's working because he's got over 40% of the country in love with him. And I hear people on the NPR this morning said, we just love him. He's so funny. He's just done so much for the middle class. Nobody just appreciating it. And I'm like, what, what? So they're these people that are in this belief system. And that's where we are. And we have to acknowledge that they're there, but they're carrying a lot of weight now and a lot of vote power. So it's really, that's the tipping point of our nation's crisis. But the other thing is, you know, I want to say on the COVID committee, you know, that was always supposed to be Vice President Pence's gig. And I mean, like, Biden did a lot of that for Obama. But this is the whole thing. Trump just cannot be outside of the spotlight. And immediately he saw people were interested, so then he got in there. And he really dominated that to everybody's detriment, that committee, by the kinds of things he said that were more and more different. Pence hasn't done anything about it. And Pence just backed off. So that just shows you the way they're so obsequious to him and nobody's standing up to him. And none of these guys on the other side, these Republicans and those who served Trump should be able to get out from under the burden of what their mandacity was. Okay, Tim, you know, one of the issues, I think, is that the press is also attracted to shiny objects. And Trump calls the tune every day, every night. You've got, I don't know, 80 million Americans watching what they think is important about the news, which is always Trump. But what are the Democrats doing? Do they have a meaningful strategy on getting COVID back into the public view, on making the public understand that is the most significant issue? I know you're gonna say, we'll find out tonight in a debate. No, I wasn't gonna say that, actually. What were you gonna say? I was gonna say that Biden is already expressing that as, I'm gonna defer to the scientific community, number one, we're gonna go back to basics and that is social distancing and masks. We're going to supply hospitals and all the facilities that need PPP, PPEs. And we're going back to the basics. I mean, Dr. Renfield said quite simply and clearly this mask represents probably a more effective case against COVID than a vaccine. And I think that's repeating that message and getting that message out to even all those in the red states is going to have an effect and we're gonna turn this COVID boat around. But it won't happen under Donald Trump's leadership, just plain fact of that. Well, we have a couple of pretty smart guys, Democrats in not only the House, but also in the Senate. Are they adopting a, what do you wanna call it, a strategy, a public statement, a rhetorical strategy? That will keep the subject more on COVID or are they losing the game? Because it's a competition between Trump's craziness with all these shiny objects and the Democrats attempt to keep COVID at the fore. Are the Democrats in Congress doing a good job on that? In Congress, I'm not certain, but are the Democrats doing an effective job? Yes, and what is that job? They're working on one thing at a time and that primary thing is getting Donald Trump out of the White House. Winning the election is where their energy and synergy is focused. And they're not in office yet, they're not in power. So their ability to basically convince all Americans that science is the way to approach COVID, not Donald Trump's rhetoric and bluster, they're just not in that position yet. Yes, but they're in a position to, that we have two weeks left, maybe is it two weeks? We have roughly two weeks left. This is the time when people are either made their mind up or might make their mind up if they vote at the polls. Isn't this the time to show them that Trump is a huge failure? Isn't this the time for the Republicans to come out and have that competition on what is really important here and it's not shiny objects? Are they doing a good job at that? Now I'm gonna go to your first point. The debate, the debate is tonight. That will be where Joe Biden needs to point out exactly those words that you just spoke. Yes, totally agree. Cynthia, you're shaking your head. Does that mean yes, no, or maybe? Well, I think it will see a lot tonight. You know, well, here's why we get to watch it at three o'clock. We don't have to wait until later tonight, right? You know, back to the COVID thing and to speak to that, 31 states have a gigantic increase in their cases just in the last week. And Hawaii, we can be very proud of Hawaii strong. We are the only state in the nation that is moving in the right direction and everybody else, I know, right? Everybody else is going up. So, and I mean, up by a lot. So they've got, I've got some numbers for you. It's all about that sturchest kind of rally thing. It's all about the Trump's rallies and the ultra-conservative meetings with the motorcycles that really has a huge effect. And I don't know if the scientists have an actual formula where they can determine how many people show up at the rally and then three weeks later, how many people come down with COVID. But you can see it in broad terms, that's what's happened. Well, if you look at the states and the numbers that are going up the most, they're the states where Trump has had rallies. So, Wisconsin had 20,000 cases in the last seven days. Illinois, 28,000. Utah, 9,000. Iowa, 7,000. They're just going up and up and up. This is like numbers since they haven't had ever for these states. And so even some of the states that had gone down again, we're starting to go back up again. And that whole swath of red states that goes down the middle of the country, those guys are on fire with COVID right now. So I think Trump is gone. It's not gonna be that hard to get people to think about COVID again. Cause really the only reason we're not doing it is because he's got us so busy with these shiny objects. Exactly, you were saying something, Tim? Yeah, I think Cynthia makes a great point of the states that are affected by COVID and these huge case increases. If you think about it, if those that are been affected with a case of COVID, they're probably not gonna vote at the poll. And they've already been persuaded by Donald Trump not to use the ballot. Those may be lost votes for Donald Trump and this could have gone horribly the wrong way for Donald Trump by holding those rallies without protection for the participants. How much creams do you give to the polls right now? I go about 60%. I don't trust them. I didn't trust them in 2016 and I don't trust them now. I think if Joe Biden's leading in a lot of these swing states is probably within the margin of error, two to 3% above. I just think there's a lot of people sitting there in the chair and just ready to vote. And there are a lot of them are Trump voters. And I think this election could be far, far closer than we ever imagined. I hope I'm wrong. I hope it's a landslide. I hope it's a blue tsunami. Don't forget the blue tsunami of litigation that will follow. We can't find out where those altered voting machines are. It doesn't matter who comes out because he's going to change the numbers. We know he's going to cheat and he's not just gonna cheat in ways like Russia sends out bots and things to make people think differently. He's going to cheat in a very mechanical way, I believe. And that's part of why he's so busy with the shiny objects because nobody's even looking at it because we're so busy looking at all the other stuff. You know, he's got a lot of things behind his back. So Stephanie, you know, here we are where one day, one few hours actually from the debate which presumably will have some effect. Although nobody can be sure, you know, it could have a terrible effect for Trump but it might save his campaign too. My question is what do you predict is going to happen there and how much are we going to talk about COVID there? What do you expect he got up his sleeve? Well, he's going to dominate. He will endure his two minutes because he has no choice and then he'll just come on as strong as before because that is his style and that is what he knows how to do. And he can do a coherent conversation or discussion of policy. He can't put that together in complex sentences. So this is what he is. But, and that's what is appealing to a lot of people is that he's not an egghead academician or an elector. Well, no, no, think, think, think, think surprised. Okay, what possible, and you can make speculation here what possible tricks has he got up his sleeve? We know what he is. We know his parameters, but what is he going to do in order to take the spotlight tonight? Well, he'll go after all of Biden's soft spot. So he'll go after the kid and that and he'll hold, and he won't be able to speak. Biden can't speak over him. So as long as he's gone, he's going to be going after all of the Biden holes that he's found in his life and history and he'll just do that. We can only hope that the moderator will hold him to answer the question post. That hasn't happened in the past. They weren't able to. I'm not that interested in watching it because I know everybody else is going to show the best part. I'm just wondering if that's generalizable to the population. Maybe a lot of people really aren't interested in this because how many of these deplorable scenes have we seen? I mean, the hulking of Trump over Hillary, I mean, and the walking around during Hillary and then the Biden. Yeah, that's the kind of surprise I'm talking about. So Tim, talk about surprises. I mean, we have not only, you know, this debate. We still have, even after the debate, we still have what, 10 days before election day when it all really heats up in the press, right, wrong or otherwise. What do you think he's going to do? There was another article by Barton Gelman in The Atlantic. I haven't seen it, but they promised they were going to go into great detail on this question. But what do you imagine he's going to do? What has he got up his sleeve? I think there's two surprises that Donald Trump's going to try. And I think he's been advised to do it. One, change his tone. Be lighthearted, be humorous, ridicule with humor. Here's the only problem though. Donald Trump has no humor. So it's going to be a uphill slog for Donald Trump to try to be light and try to be humorous. Now, number two is you may see him try to chart out a vision for the future. Something that there's been none of that in the last election, this whole election season is charting a path of vision. And you may see that tonight. What would he say about COVID? Blame Dr. Fauci, Dr. Bricks, Dr. Renfield. Anyone he can blame? He'll deflect the other one. He'll deflect the responsibility. Heck, he might try it in a humorous way to pin it on Joe Biden. Right, anyone, anyone. Anyone but himself. Lies galore. So let's go around the table here and ask you for your word or phrase that best defines where we are. I mean, you know, here we are. It's the 22nd. God, you know, do we ever believe we'd be here? The 22nd of October, 2020. Where are we? Let's start with you, Cynthia. What is your word or phrase that bestifies where we are? Okay, we haven't really broached this subject yet here on today's show, but this is my phrase. It's from Trevor Noah. And he says, Trump can't even pick a partner for life, for himself. But he gets to pick three Supreme Court judges for America for life. And I thought that was pretty telling and pretty important, you know, that whole for life part, you know, so everything is, you know, our healthcare is so tied into this new judge that it's kind of connected. That goes back to the legacy question, doesn't it? Yeah. He's leaving us a legacy that also includes a mess in healthcare. Yeah. She's shaking her head. Stephanie, why don't you adopt what Winston would say? Well, let me see. I was gonna, let me see. Winston's the opposite of me. He's so meganimous and he's so positive. Well, I was gonna, I think I could apply that to whether Donald has actually is able to con, I guess I shouldn't say con. Influence, the Nobel Prize Committee. That's outrageous. Well, he conned the Nobel Prize. Okay, that's Winston. What about you, Stephanie? He will. He will try to influence the Nobel Prize Committee to award him the prize. And that will be the final, in addition to whether he had the COVID. The final insult. And he didn't have the COVID and he gets the Nobel Prize for COVID. Final and stick in the eye to everyone in the world. Okay, Tim, you're last. You're the anchorman here. So what is your word or phrase that best defines where we are here in October 22nd in the world and our lives? Well, for Donald Trump since last week, I'm gonna rely on an old friend of mine, Literation. And that is deplorable, desperate deflection. That's what he's gonna do. He's gonna, he's desperate and he is going to deflect on anybody, everybody. And it's their fault. And if you follow me, you'll be in happier days in 2021 and my next second candidacy for president is gonna be a barn burner and just stay tuned. That's his message for the next week at least. Yeah, you want mine? Yes. Madness, it's madness. And if we didn't want to impeach him, why in the world did we not find him inappropriate and unqualified under the 25th Amendment? That's mine. Anyway, thank you, Tim. Tim Apachella, Cynthia Sinclair, Stephanie Dalton and other great Coronaville. What's next? And I look forward to seeing you guys next week for Tim's Trump week. Ooh, can hardly wait. What an important discussion that's gonna be after the debate and before the election. Aloha, you guys. Aloha.