 Daisy Olson here, Justin Tadlock, and we're talking about block theme features coming to WordPress 6.1 in a few weeks. And Justin was just sharing about how block theming is allowing him to do things that previously maybe we're just like on his wish list. So super cool. Yeah, you kind of got cut off mid ramble there. Sorry about that. But yeah, like I think block based templates and classic themes like or the like that's the where the transitioning point now like people can really theme authors can really start just especially if you have like an existing user base, you know, maybe you got 10,000 users you don't want to just like suddenly turn your classic theme into a full fledged block theme. And like you can just start like with specific sections at one time like say, like just a really like low hanging fruits like the four four page content. You can't edit that traditionally without diving into, you know, a PHP file. So like just drop in like a, you know, block template part that you know users edit that content and something they're likely not to like screw up the whole site with like just introducing that one thing. And then just start like, you know, picking up more advanced things, things like, you know, switching out your header, you know, footer sidebars. I actually like using this system for sidebars more so than I do the like the kind of implementation we have with blocks, which lot widgets now. So then there's a lot of I think I agree with you on that. There's all some things to do there. I don't know how much I'll explore just because I'm like fully on board, you know, 100% block themes now. But I'd love to see like what our community does with it. Has anyone here tried any of these, like taking one of these block template parts and putting it into a classic theme. So this kind of reminds me a little bit so way if we go way back to ancient history. When I first started using WordPress widgets were actually a plug in so really weren't very many themes out there. And that would, I'm sorry that there weren't that many themes out there that that I used widgets at the time so it was a very popular plugin. Huge amount of support behind it and it wasn't too long before it rolled into core. But the other the other time in our history and this is kind of interesting because I've known there's there's some work being done to kind of replace this old old menu system when you would be looking to insert a new menu part of the new menu navigation system back in 2010, I think it was. And at that point we were, you know, moving from all of the themes just had to build their own navigation into like a centralized. Here we have a way to build navigation from within WordPress. And now we're moving even further down the road to saying okay well we can build these content areas that are going to maybe be used in more a place on a site kind of like a widget area. And now we can use them or build them similar to the way we would build with the block editor. Oh yeah I still remember the widgets plugin to those like version 2.0 or 2.2 somewhere in there somewhere in there. So Lisa says she has made a hybrid theme so far. Yeah, and I kind of hate that the word hybrid because that was my old business like my first theme and I'm still like subscribed to every like the hybrid word on WordPress so like I just get random emails now. I need to shut that off. Hey, I bet you do. All right, and Sally says that she just made her first full site editing theme but haven't tried the hybrid model. I'm curious to try it too I'll have to go find an old theme somewhere and just play with it. I really everything that's in this field guide the related to things I just want to poke at and give it a good run. Make sure that I understand what it really does and how it's going to help people so that I can continue to try to share that word. Yeah, can I chime in real quick with something. Sure thing. One thing I've noticed that I like to call and I know this is for theme developers but if you're in like an agency land I know that's one of the things that people have been really excited about from the outreach program is being able to use block template parts and an agency setting. So maybe you had a bunch of requests where someone wants control over the footer or the header. You can provide that and there's also a ton of just locking API is in different ways you can curate the experience along with these block template parts. So I think when combined will be really cool. Obviously that's probably more in like an agency environment where you're working like one going with someone rather than rolling it out to everyone but I think it's easy to see how these things can combine. Yeah, good feedback. Like I've done a lot of experimenting with this like a couple of weeks ago so like the biggest issue I've run into with the block template parts is like just CSS issues like if you just like I went like full out and like wanted to put a hero header in 2021, I think. And so like it wasn't built. It wasn't built like in terms like to handle blocks in the like template outside of the content area. So like, you know, I was having an overwrite like old CSS. And I think that's just going to be individual themes like it's going up there's a little bit of a hump you're going to have to get over. If you're like plugging it into an old project. But not to make it sound like, you know, just walking the park doing you know just plugging in a template and being done with it there's some work involved with it but I think it's worth it. Yeah, but I that one of the things that and mentioned about locking content kind of leads us into another item that's in the field guide which might, I think it's going to probably relate more to people building custom post types, but there are some content locking features coming that so previously we were able to lock down like moving and removing blocks. And when we added them to templates but now we'll be able to lock down more specifically down to just the content of a block so things like media URLs and the actual content maybe like of a paragraph block or something like that and and everything just locked down around it so if you're creating for a client or for really custom very specific thing, and you need everything to like really stay where it is the design the, the, the where the blocks are and and all of that then being able to make it so that the something that the end user the the content creator is going to edit are the things that are relevant to them. So I think that is going to be really interesting for things that are maybe using more creative use of post types for example, or things like that. So in the Dev know it talks about example with a custom post type template that would be registered. Yeah, in my mind, like I'm thinking about the, like the content only editing, like when you lock that is the ability to create like, like a whole set of patterns that can keep the consistent design experience like throughout the, throughout the system and like users and users can just plug in their contents. And you know, maybe they instead of changing to the design on individual blocks, they kind of head to the side editor and change like the global styles. So they're not like say if you do a pricing table on, you know your front page and decide to change the colors from blue to orange. That's where like, and then you have a different pricing table and you forgot to change the color. You kind of want that same consistent like branding across the site. So like when theme authors can like present like these pack packages of different designs, usually like along with patterns and lock down the design editing so the users only edit the content. And that just kind of forces them over to the global styles to make the changes. Yeah, because that's been like a pain point for a lot of people with theme authors like because like, you know, you might have a user use a, you know, a certain pattern like 100 times and then all of a sudden they want to change their site design but everything's tied back to, you know, any changes they made before. Yeah. Yeah. So thinking back to some experiences that I had working on client sites, you would come across a template or or a post type, maybe where the content area had been removed entirely and all you had was a list of fields to complete. That we're going to populate the front end but you had no idea what that was going to look like, except experience of having done it before. So, or even worse is you leave the content area but you don't use it. And you got to scroll down to see where you're actually going to be adding your content I think that this way of like building out a kind of like it's like a hybrid of somewhere between a whizzy wig and I don't know, an actual functional way to edit content. And it's never going to be quite what you see on the front end but but I think that that's just the nature of having something that can be changed you know it's never going to be, it's you've got to be able to have a way to interact with things. So, all right. So what else do you think looks interesting from the list, Justin is there something else that you think we could jump over to you. Does anyone have any questions if you feel like there's something that you've seen or you've heard about that you'd like to chat about. Call it out this is not just me and Justin talking necessarily I'd love it if we get some, some other voices in the mix on your video will not show up if you talk. So it's just me and Justin. But if you have your microphone on you did go ahead and and call out something that you think is very cool that's coming or a question that you have about something we've already talked about or something that you've heard about. Then let's continue. So, this feels like a pretty small change but it might make it feel a little bit more consistent if you're working with the theme that register I say register register is not exactly the word. If, if a theme uses a navigation block in usually it'll be empty. If it's in a theme that's been distributed. Then the fallback behavior of that is going to be changing just a little bit to make it more consistent between what you see on the back end and what you see on the front end when you first activate that theme. So that's the way I'm understanding it at least. Like previous versions I think on the front end, like if the navigation block was just the default. Then like when the user added to their website, it would just put out a page list on the front end, but on the editor it would just be like, you know, pick a menu. So the experience was different. The only way I've really worked around that is I've just like put some like, you know, demo links in there in the past, but like that shouldn't really shouldn't need to do that anymore. So, if anybody's right, so if you're a theme developer I would say and you want to control that experience so that whenever that theme is activated. Um, you want to know that these items show I think you can put like placeholder items into your menu. Yeah, and there there actually is a fallback hook to I don't know if it works in the front end and the editor though. I have to test that. Yeah, it's it's kind of like going back to the previous menu system and having to write custom Walker functions to make it work a little bit differently than the default right it's it's a lot easier to do that now. Yeah. We're responding here. Oh yeah I don't even miss custom walkers at all. That and comments to we had to use them a lot for comments. I'm just tapping in the chat there. So, yeah, that's just a minor thing. I know one thing everybody's excited about is the fluid fox sizes. Yeah, that's, it's not what we could do fluid for you just had to do it on your own. So, now there's you can tell WordPress to do it for you. I'm just curious about what that means basically it's your, your setting a default font size. Based on I think the 16 pixel base, and then using realms to to determine the sizing. And then you can set a max and a min size in rems. And then as your browser grows and shrinks. You can adjust the text size accordingly so we have there were some videos I think demonstrating this in the dev note. Maybe I can find one of those. Yeah. I was trying to say I've had an example on this computer. I don't think I do at the moment. I don't have a 2020 23 up somewhere. All right, let me see if I can share, share my screen. All right, can you all see that type setting and printing workshops. I can't see. Yeah, I'm good. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and play on this. I don't think there's any audio I think it's just a screen capture. I think as the, the display gets narrower, it changes the actual size of the text. So you think about, like we've come so far with mobile responsibility and you remember when smartphones, or even worse feature phones first started to come out, and we were suddenly trying to access the Internet on them. And everything got like really, really tiny as we tried to cram entire desktop websites into these small areas and now we're getting to a place where we can have, you know, infinite responsiveness. And so no matter what size, the display is it's going to be useful. It's going to be usable readable, but not necessarily the same. So it's not like you're trying to create this specific pixel perfect experience you're trying to have a website that's usable by human beings so. Yeah. I had, yeah. Actually, I think Michael actually is bringing it up in a chat about if I can pull that up. Yeah, bypass and media queries. That's like kind of a good thing to mention because we get a lot of questions about like, when are we going to get, you know, like some mobile, you know, mobile or tablet like design options on blocks. But that's really not the direction like, you know, quarters taken there's more of an intrinsic design direction. So like we use things like clamp to handle the fluid typography. Like, you know, so things are just, you know, you don't have like, you know, dozens of media queries and your, you know, design. I mean, because there's new devices every year. New, you know, screen sizes is not the ideal way. There are some situations that is ideal to like, base your design off with media queries. But the more we can get away from that and just have things that are fluid and move along with whatever screen size that the user is viewing from, that the better. And that takes some time. So I know like some people get a little frustrated without like what they've seen maybe over the past decade from like different design tools. And but I think cores are going in the right direction with this. It's a different way of thinking about how to deal with responsibility. I think. The CSS is like much lighter at the end when you. But harder to wrap your head around. I feel like if you're used to that idea of at this point, I'm going to do this thing. It takes a little bit more work to like figure out like there's more math involved for sure. Clamp you. Oh yeah, I have a I have like a SAS function for just to like automatically do that sort of thing from for me. So I don't have to think about it. If anybody needs that just like ping me on slack or something. Well, now that we have fluid typography. Yeah, but yeah, but we still have other areas like, you know, like padding margins that could use a similar treatment. Sure. And I would imagine that we're going to get there at some point in some way what it's actually going to look like. It's a little hard to save at the moment. But because, you know, with this trend towards fluidity, I think we'll see more and more getting built in. But I think the font sizes is a really good place to start. The one thing I would say watch out with font sizes is like your line heights. Make sure you're testing those as a designer. So you might want to throw in like some like, you know, customization there with your line hats if you're not comfortable with them. I know something like I get super picky about that. So, like, you know, you don't want like, you know, you know, 20 pixels of gap on your like, you know, h1 heading element or something. Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, it can look pretty, pretty wonky there. So there was a question about implementing custom designs and block themes. And yeah. This is this is such a thing that's really, you really have to understand how theme JSON works to figure out which things are going to become part of your sites defaults your themes defaults. In terms of what CSS is going to be output through the block editor system. And then what you actually do need to create as custom CSS and everything is kind of like a, it's still in progress, you know, we're in the early days of block theming, and we are going to keep finding new ways to improve on what we do. And one example that of something that we hadn't been able to do in theme.json that now we should be able to do would be setting some some styles for like states of links active hover. That wasn't something that we had enough of the option to do there's also some element styling that can be applied coming up and the site was added and you can also do the the state on the button on buttons to. Mm hmm. Yeah, so I'm going to throw this link into the chat of the styling elements. And that that's the direction where we're going in I don't know that you'll ever be able to do like we're not trying to necessarily recreate CSS in in theme JSON, but the idea is that you're going to be able to create this these really efficient style sheets that are going to get better and better over time so. I always describe it as a common language between like WordPress a theme and like the user to like, that's like what the theme JSON is. Yeah, just a way for everybody to talk to each other. Sorry to have somebody coming in or add some feedback there anyway. I heard something too. I see, yeah, cool. I don't know if I said your name right but I see your hand is raised did you have a question. Yeah, I got a couple questions. I mean, this is a very basic question but so like I can put text into a header blog and select which header I want. Using the blog system and kind of in each post like one or two or three. What I select each of these headers there's kind of like a pre formatted font size and style. How do I like change the defaults for those. So, you mean on a per template part basis. You're like for the entire theme like it could be done through theme JSON. You can set defaults. Yes. Like your styles that you can do it on end of like you can set some defaults for all heading all headings. And now I have something else coming through. You can set the defaults for all headings. It's also in Wordpress 6.1 so it's like styles that element that heading. And then you can also like go break that down to individual headings like styles that elements that H1 that takes to. So, but I found at least at this stage. So, I'm coming at it from a little bit different. And I found that when I if I had a specific template or template part that I wanted to style differently. Then I would make those styles at the block level in the templates and not try to put them into theme JSON. But I think that we'll probably get to a place just like we're now going to be able to do more styling from the JSON on a more granular level. You might also be able to target a specific template part styles. I am going to mute everyone for just a second and then you can unmute yourself again. Okay, yeah. So Justin, you'll have to unmute yourself. Okay, yeah. So, I don't know. I think that we'll see more and more but I found that sometimes there are ways to use the JSON to style something just by thinking about the nesting and in like a more creative way. I think that one thing that would be really cool would be for a lot more code examples. I don't know where they're going to come from necessarily some of us are going to have to go make some, but just to create a theme JSON recipes or cookbook, you know, that's going to show us lots of examples of how we can structure our styles. So that they are there giving us the results that we're looking for it's, it's, you know, we're all very probably a lot of us are accustomed to how to work with CSS. So this is a different paradigm where it's a different way of thinking because we're trying to apply our styles to controls that are in the block editor. Can I ask a quick follow up to that. Okay. Yeah, I guess in general I'm a little bit unclear on the systems of like overrides because you know there's like multiple levels with which you can program a theme. And I'm not sure like which one WordPress checks first, like back then when they had before the site full site editing they had like the additional CSS kind of like type additional CSS I didn't know if that applied globally or on a per page basis so anything you can speak to in terms of like the override hierarchy for any like style changes that you make whether it's by CSS or JSON. It's going to cascade just like any other CSS. What order everything loads in. Yeah, there's a lot of levels to that now. So you have WordPress like default block styles that are like at the very lowest and then like, then you have, you know, theme.json styles I think would kind of come in next and then even user overrides and then you got per block styles that come in. And somewhere in the middle of that to you can also have like style sheets attached to the blocks to as a theme author. But basically at the, like the very tail it like the highest and the level is like what happens on the individual block level. That's like, that should be the like final say so how something looks. And I've seen somewhere I wish I could find it right now I don't know that is we actually need a good like hierarchy page for the docs we need to like. Yeah, there are some posts in core in the make core. Probably maybe even somewhere in docs where it talks about. Core styles and then theme styles and then user styles and that that should be the hierarchy that first we pull it from core and then we then we pull from the theme and then we pull from user. So. Yeah, and user styles are things we do in full say editing basically that's it's the difference that changes you make from what the theme is pulling it. I think we may have covered that that question. I'm trying to catch up with questions in their chat now. They tend to come in. Yeah, so I've seen a couple of mentions of learn WordPress and I do want to throw a little plug in there for the great work that the training team is doing on making self paced learning opportunities to learn all kinds of things about WordPress, not just development but also just how to use it how to build block themes how to build blocks. Lots and they're working on doing more and more and this actually is kind of kind of part of that is we, you know, it's it we publish it as a workshop and that's probably how a lot of you are registered that was through the learn WordPress meetup.com group. Okay, yeah, there's just some good links from Michael in the chat for everybody else. And Lisa's got one too. Yes, we're there other specific topics are like we wanted to make sure to cover. I know we have some other questions like that came in with RSVP. Yeah, let me see if we have anything that can pull out of there. Yeah. Oh, Sally asked about first attempt as as using fonts and theme JSON didn't work. I mean, that's a very specific question. It would be like a, I think we're going to have to see your code to answer that but I think that. Yeah, I was just kind of interject for a second we actually have a course coming up that's going to have a whole section on fonts actually just wrote it. Yeah, I mean I went to a learn session on fonts and it looks, you know, beautifully easy to set it up you just put the font families, you know you put the fonts in the folder you put the font family info and your theme JSON. And, you know, presto change. Oh, it loads your custom fonts and when I tried to actually do it it was not working. But so I still had to, you know, and queue the fonts. So I'm sure it will improve with practice and and also it's just possible that some of the some of those features were not in whatever I happened to have active at the time. Yeah, I actually like completely done the same like it didn't work for me the very first time I did it. I think I actually had that happen to me too when I was prepping for WordCamp US and it took me a couple tries. I don't remember what I changed though. Something changed and then it worked. Yeah, I like I'll be happy to like if you're like so having issues. I'll be happy to like just to walk you like through it like one on one or because that's a can be a bit of a process because it's not just like the like loading font faces you also have to attach it to a font family. And then actually use it somewhere after that. I did that but for some reason it it wasn't working until I, you know, added something in the functions file and then it behaved itself. Yeah, it's a yeah I still look up even though I'm like writing one lesson on it like I'm still looking up and like just copy and pasting from like things I've already got working. Hey, that's the trick to being a great developers copy and pasting. I absolutely agree Google Reddit Stack Overflow, the codecs that still shows up in the Google search. Yeah, all that. So, here's another interesting thing and there was a question about tools for development. There was an example of composer but I wanted to throw out a couple of things that I think can be really helpful for from for the block theme development specifically and one is if you are using theme chase on. Make sure that you include the schema definition in your file because it's going to end use a ID that supports schema autocomplete it will revolutionize your ability to write these files because it will give you lots of little hints about what is available in any given space but also will autocomplete some of it for you with the default so then you know what to change it to. So I think that that is such a great thing that some of the developers have taken on to make sure that we have a good schema. And if you if you use the one that has trunk in that in the URL, that's the that's meant to work with the Gutenberg plugin, but there's another version of it that's specific to the WordPress version so you want to make sure that you're using the one that's that's right for your installation of WordPress so. Yeah that's change that's just completely changed how I've right like interacted with the inside now, like just moving the vs code and like, you know, put in the schema. Like, it's kind of easy now. Text expander for it. So yeah and so Michael blinked to a to visual studio, which is a Microsoft software that's cross platform compatible and it's free and it's built on an open source base. And it's one of several options that will just work with with schema out of the box so a lot of us have have started using visual studio for as an ID. There's a there's a lot a huge community surrounding it lots of extensions to to make it work the way you want I actually was working on building a whole mark down notebook. Like a personal knowledge management system that was all in VS code. I ended up moving a different direction but it was really fun to go through that journey and see what kinds of things the developers and that open source community have have come up with kind of like our plugin and theme community and WordPress. Lots of stuff out there. And then the other tool that I think is really helpful is there's a plugin in the WordPress plugin directory called create block theme. And that is a really helpful way to it does a few different things but one thing you can, you can do is spin up a like a blank empty theme. That's a functional block theme it has just the basics in it, and then it gives you a starting point to build from but the other thing it can do is it can take any changes that you set make within the site editor and save them back to your theme at the file level. So it was a very cool tool to be able to start off with some basics there are probably still things you're going to have to do in the code. But to actually build a theme mostly from within WordPress is pretty neat. Yeah, I'm just going to plug another like theme JSON related plug in. It's like called theme YAML. I tried it out like earlier this year I think if you just prefer like, you know not working in JSON like you just want something that's readable like I don't know. Like, it felt pretty neat to do it and like just like like transfers to the JSON for you. And if you don't know what YAML is it's it's basically a super set of JSON. So it's a different way of structuring your content in a still in a value or a key value pair sort of format, but without all of the brackets. I would like to see that as like a build script instead of like a plugin though. So there's probably something out there already. Yeah, I was just thinking the other day I was not aware of this plugin but I was just thinking the other day as I was working with some other non WordPress related things that they use YAML and I was like, wouldn't it be cool if I could write my theme JSON and YAML first because it is a lot easier to read. Yeah. And plus you can like the last easy to just leave comments, you know. So, yeah, and theme JSONs are getting like, kind of large or they can be. Yeah, I have a feeling that we're going to get get to a place where we need to break them out into smaller pieces. But not today. I'm just trying to look over our list now. I haven't touched, we haven't really touched on like the presets for adding more jet block gap. That's like the spacing. Yeah, they're spacing. Yeah, spacing presets. You can basically set like, you can like customize like every like spacing option. Instead of let and then like turn off custom spacing for users. Yeah, thanks. That's for the whole link there. They're like, there's two different ways of doing it. There's like a whole like steps thing that was a little confusing to me, but I just kind of like made my individual like spacing sizes. And that, I think it's going to be really useful for keeping assistants facing across your theme. And like just turn off like the custom stuff and like, you know, let the users, you know, choose size, you know, 100 200 or wherever, ever however they're naming them. You know, so like, you know, you don't want to use their like picking like this crazy big number. And then like it not work, you know, and then they kind of switch some things up and it not work. It just completely doesn't work with the next design. You know, like that, you know, 200 pixel gap, you know, and this one design might look good. And then the next one, not so much. I think there's like some internal mapping there. I haven't dove into it as much as I wanted to in this cycle. And yeah, I'm just going to be rambling about that. And we can move on to the next thing if we need to. The next thing. I know we do have a few questions. Okay. And I don't I haven't dove into the like reference styles yet. And Theda and Jason, that's a whole another topic too. Yeah, it feels like, I don't know. I haven't really wrapped my head around it, but the idea that you can reference a style. We typically are referencing the variables that are created. But to reference a style and another in another place within theme Jason is an interesting idea. And I don't, I don't know that I fully understand what that's going to look like in practice. Yeah, I need a project before I can really talk about it. But there's some stuff about filtering theme Jason data, which I think is going to probably affect plugins more than themes. That's my, that's my hot take on it. Where as a plugin, you would be able to filter in your own theme Jason type content or data. Yeah, they're, yeah. Yeah, PHP like filter hooks for, you know, overriding. Yeah, the theme Jason stuff. Yeah, that's probably going to apply mostly to plugins. I think maybe there are some times when there are probably some situations and things where you might want to still like lean on like a custom theme options page or something. Like, because you know, like right now you, there's, you can't do like Google fonts through the font system or something. And maybe you want to like let it use or like choose fonts and your theme, and then like auto download them to host them locally. And then you need to kind of hook back into theme Jason to like overwrite the font families or something like that. They're, you know, we just have to wait and see what, what people deal with it. Yeah. Um, it'll be curious. I'm curious to see what the community does with all of these things. Honestly, it feels like there's a lot going on in here and none of them are like, as Earth's shaking is like full site editing in general or the site editor or some of those really big things that we've had in some recent versions, but when you look at how many things are in this list, it's pretty, pretty wild. I see a question from Lisa about block gap being confusing. It is a little confusing. The main idea is it's the spacing between blocks so it doesn't put spacing before the first block or after the last block, and it's being applied to inner blocks so you actually apply it to the container, and then it gets applied to the next level and blocks that's that's kind of like my oversimplification of it. Yeah. Yeah, that's basically it's just like, well, in like the flow layouts, it's margin. And like then there's the flex layouts where it's actually an actual like gap value. So that it makes it even more confusing, like, because sometimes it's a gap, sometimes it's a margin. Yeah. And I think that the main idea behind it is to take the need to understand all of the technical details of it for the user to be able to say, Oh, I just want this space to happen here. I don't know if that's really working in practice but that's the main idea but it is a pretty confusing it is. It's caused a lot of conversation in the, in the core channels as we try to sort out the best way to implement these ideas. But at its basic it's it's how much space you're placing between blocks whether they are going horizontally or vertically. Yeah. I'm trying to think I like there's kind of an interesting question I don't know how much wonder how much it buys the themes but like this is from the RSVP lists as can query loops have conditional logic such as displaying only if the date has not passed. And the there are actually new tools for like hooking into like creating your own query block variation. Yeah, variations now that is in the field guide to but the way that we've done some of this up until now I haven't used these any I've done I've not done anything with the new custom query loop block variations yet. But one way that we've worked PHP into our block themes kind of through the back door I would say almost although it was in a core theme so I guess it's it's canonical at that point is to use block patterns that are hidden from the because block patterns are registered with PHP. So we can actually use conditionals in those in order to kind of get back some of our old temp our old way of thinking about how we do conditional so yeah. What patterns are like anytime you need to do something the block editor isn't capable of yet just kind of stick it in the pattern and hide it away. You know some of the PHP stuff. And the reason that it works is because they're the first of all you can create a pattern register a pattern. It's a PHP file it's got some header information most of the file is just HTML blocks but you wrap it up in whatever whatever old template tags you need to do what you need it to do. And then you register as a as a false for the insert so it's hidden and then you use the pattern block in your template to pull it in. So it's kind of like this it it's a creative use case of things that already existed. Just a quick note on like doing conditionals and block patterns with PHP is they're actually registered I think on the net hook. So like if you're expecting like like some condition that happens later that might not work. So, as far as references for doing this the best reference that I know of is to go look at the 2022 theme, because that's how some of the header is handled. I think the birds in there that section, it's, it's like, you kind of have to like break it down into pieces as you start to see how they actually constructed that header, because it's like a pattern within a pattern within a block within a template. So that might not be the right order of things but that's that was kind of my feeling when I was looking through trying to reverse engineer what they did there, but if you want to see a place where that where that was done that is a that's a good place to go. Yeah, I know we got a few minutes left, like just on time wise so like I want to make sure like we're covering any questions anybody has. Like, I just want to make it like open up the floor bit. So, yeah, can says doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose of WordPress if I need to know HTML and CSS to a professional degree or technical detail to do these basic customizations. I don't think that's the intention. I think that you were trying WordPress is covering huge amounts of ground in terms of being able to to meet the needs of developers that are building enterprise level applications for huge clients. And also your hobby blogger who just wants to have a website where they can talk about, you know, they're crafting. It's it's covering all of that. And so there you might not be able to do every single thing without some HTML and CSS experience. But there's a lot you can do without without any or with very little. Yeah, I'll say like, I have a cousin, an older cousin, he's just not really technically savvy. So, but he wanted a website several years back. So of course, you know, Justin, the WordPress developer and the family gets to set it up for him. And so he had such trouble just doing base what I would call basic things like adding a link or like bolding text and like classic editor. And like every week I would get a call I mess something up. But since then, I think like he like since he's moved I've moved him over to the block editor. I've had far fewer of those questions. So I don't really like this is an example of somebody who's just like not he doesn't know code doesn't know HTML doesn't CSS nothing. And like so you don't need that level of expertise until you want to start getting into more, you know, advanced stuff. So, yeah, I mean, it's just different, you know, WordPress is covering a big a large spectrum. Absolutely. All right, do we have any other comments questions before we wrap things up for today. So I'm sure that we have a pretty wide variety of people with different levels of usage here today and I hope that everyone found something interesting or useful today. And we will, we'll keep seeing what comes along and try to maybe do some deeper dives into some of these specific things would be pretty cool. Yeah, and I didn't even have a cat show up like like once the meat like the whole thing got started like they missed their cat. Yeah, it was it just it was here at the very beginning and like, you know, that was it. Yeah, seriously, I mean we're like, I mean y'all got any questions. I mean, uses, you know, use whatever knowledge we might have. You can always find us and the make WordPress slack. Yeah, I'm at green shady, so not my. I am at Daisy Oh, the letter Oh. I'll just type in this like in case anybody wants to. Like, if you have a question about anything we're talking about today, you know, don't hesitate to. You know, just, you know, DM or something. Absolutely. All right, well thank you all for coming today and let us know if you have any other questions or if you'd like to see another topic we'll see what we can do. Have a great one everyone. All right.