 We should probably start Hello and welcome to this characterization about media and Drupal My name is Yanis. I'm slash RSM on IRC Twitter Drupal.org What I want to do with this session is to initialize a discussion about Where can we go? From the point where we are now with media. I Probably don't have much answers I just want to try Push things forwards. So what I'm hoping to get here is a discussion about Where can we go? What should we fix how we should do this stuff like that? If you're looking for answers, that's Probably not really a session for you Few words about me. I am developer from Slovenia It's a small tiny country on a border with Italy, Austria Croatia It's what Slovakia it's usually switched I work for examiner which is big media site in US and I've been interested in media in Drupal for some time now it basically started with my summer of cool project a few years ago and Even before examiner I worked for for a media company in my country. So I Saw a lot of issues that companies with huge amount of media and when they Rely on media heavily have with Drupal and that's why I'm interested in I just want to say that I don't want to make war I'm not trying to rage against anyone. I'm not trying to blame. I would just like to analyze where are we now and Try pushing forwards All my intentions are only positive. So So first some introduction there is Drupal 8 on the way and We had a lot of plans How to improve stuff related to media in in in this new shiny version of Drupal We didn't accomplish all of our goals, but there are some improvements that are worth mentioning I Chose three, but there are probably lots of more and there are also Some patches that are still in the issue queues that will probably be committed. So, yeah First one is file listing In 8 we now finally have a file listing Which basically displays all the files that you have in your site It wasn't there before you can also see where are these files used in terms of entities and It's built on views. So actually using core allowed us to build this and That also means that it's Easy to modify and easy to extend. So I think it's a it's very basic But it's a good step in direction of real global library Next improvement that we have is Whistle wick which is by default in Drupal 8 now and we also have of the box ability to include images in line in Whistle wick Which is as you will see later one of the most requested features by the users developers And it's it's Done nice. It also records the usage of a file. So it's you you cannot Just delete a file that you're using on some nodes in in Whistle wick without knowing that you are breaking something I Checked with with four plus in Jumla and and they basically don't do that if you include something in In a post in WordPress and you delete it from library. It will Just allow you to do it and We also now have multi upload by default if you have a file field or or an image field or even if you're building your own form with Form API elements from core You can set an attribute that will allow user to select more than one file in a single step and upload them In in a single process, which is also quite nice if you're building calories with a lot of images stuff like that so We did improve some things. It's it's it's not much, but Especially the Whistle wick is very important because all the people requested We could argue if it's good to include stuff in text area and or not, but Yeah People requested and we probably have to have to give them that if We want to fix Stuff because when it comes to media people are always complaining with Drupal I heard this all the time and I was complaining also and and my stakeholders were complaining and First thing that we need to ask is why are we doing this? What's wrong if we know what's wrong, then we can fix it right if we don't know what's wrong, then it's impossible to fix it To help to understand that I in in During preparations for for this conversation. I published survey Where I tried to collect some answers It was a short one intentionally because I didn't want people to be scared when they see it And I got more than 200 answers Which was quite surprising for me and I actually had to buy a premium membership for Survey Monkey because They would not allow me to download more than 200 answers with a free plan And it's cool. It's fine. I loved it. I loved it What I wanted to to get from from this survey was to understand How are people using media with their Drupal sites on day-to-day life? Which solutions from contrary where they're using? And Which features they find most important? It's it's not everything it's dark They were also allowed to to leave Comments and I later found out that That was very good decision because I got some really nice comments and It gave me even better insight into especially in in their workflow and How are they using media? I Am not I will not present full results here, but There's a blog post on my on my blog where I attached PDFs with all the results so you can check it by yourself and analyze it I just decided to to to To present free most Requested features because I found something that seems interesting to me when related to features The number one feature that people requested was in line media and with the week We kind of have this now in Drupal 8 for images It's still just for images not for videos and maybe other type of files like documents But it's a start and it will probably make people happy Solution that we have in Drupal 8 is Probably based on what we have in contrib for Drupal 7 at least I see it like that Approach similar to what we have in media and That's good because we have to build on on top of stuff that we have and Interesting part is that this most requested feature is also provided in I think most of the general media solutions that we have in Drupal 7 contrips so We kind of had that also in Drupal 7 The number two was reuse of media which is also provided by At least four different solutions in Drupal 7 contrips, so we also had that one and The number three is site-wide media library, which is again provided by at least four It it depends on interpretation, but we have libraries in contrips solutions and and If you read my post or if you will do it afterwards You will see that if we compare top 10 features that people need They are mostly provided in current solutions So we basically have features that we need, right? So what's wrong? Why are we complaining about it? It's Definitely not just about features so What is wrong? Is it documentation? Is it ease of use? Is it maybe pace of development? Are we too slow with with the progress when it comes to to media solutions? and I think that it's probably a mixture of all of those and even in some other reasons that You can help me to find I also Invited people to to give me answer to this question before before the conversation and I got some answers but They were not very concrete It was more in terms of like yeah, I want to do that and I cannot do it with this module Okay, this is not something that I'm looking for. I'm trying to Find other reasons. Why are we complaining in general? Maybe we can See some of the comments that that I got from people Most if not all of the comments were were expressing the importance of media fields in in Drupal and They were convinced that media is not getting enough attention They said yeah, we have something but It's not it's not the the real initiative as others in Drupal 8 were which got a lot of attention and and a lot of Developers joining to help make progress A lot of them were comparing different solutions in contrib and There were not that would there was not a single comment that would rage or blame against one solution and Say that another one is is great or something like that. They were mostly comparing and Finding advantages and disadvantages in in all of them There were some complaints That were related to user experience, especially the content creator experience and Yeah, that's basically the wrap-up of all the comments Of course a lot of people told me that they are using Some other solutions that I didn't mention in my survey and that's cool But what I was looking really looking forward looking Forward to get from this was this feedback so Where should we go from here? We obviously have good solutions, but we have also some problems that we need to fix I think that There is great time to start thinking about how to How to proceed with with media In Drupal 8 because Drupal 8 is still in development. It will take some time since it's released and We can we can use this time to work on it I believe that when people start to use Drupal 8 they will start to look for solutions and It's it's probably impossible to have Something really solid and stable when on the day when Drupal 8 is is Released but at least we can have a plan and we can have development going on and Maybe people that that will realize that they need something To solve their own problems will join us When when if they will know that we are thinking about it and there is something going on So we should start now I also think that that that one of the problems with media which is a great solution was Base of development when I built my first triple seven sites Immediately after after Drupal 7 was released Media was already there. It was very buggy, but we were trying to use it and It reached the the pretty solid state Just recently now during the summer. There was alpha release. I think so it took us two or three years I remember right now. It was long time ago so yeah, and during this time people were building sites and They they needed solutions and they often found media to to buggy and to hacky and they decided to either take something else either to hack something by their own or Build another yet another solution and also if we have something that is stable and relatively ready early enough It's much higher probability that we will also get documentation and tutorials Which will also help adoption to happen I Think that we need to talk My belief is that we have Smart people working on this field and one of the problem which I see is that we are wasting energy With reinventing the wheel So I believe that we should work On top of that that we have now We have great solutions and they're mostly not integrated between each other which means that if That you have to build everything from scratch Every time you do that and if you would work together, maybe we can split our Our work in a few parts if somebody is better with content Creator experience let them do that if somebody else is better with lower API's Maybe we can allow these people to do that and not to to bother with front-end experience So yeah, I think it would be much easier to work like this oops And what I realized in this year's working for for Bigger media companies is that these are very complex problems almost every website is a bit different So it's hard to find something that that fits everyone It's needs a lot of work, but work needs to be done and we have to find a way to make it is sustainable I'm not saying that somebody should come and fund this but there are a lot of companies that need these and they are There are also a lot of companies that are already investing in this field and if we can Make these people to work together it will just follow because if they're investing their developers in Different solutions right now if they would be investing their developers in The same or different solutions that can work together We will save a lot of time So yeah, this was my introduction kind of And now as I was hoping to to to get some discussion going on So if you want to say something just please there's a microphone, which is wireless so you can stand there Or you can just pass the microphone around So hi everyone The problem we had with media in the past was that I needed like file entity media Probably media handler or media browser plus and some other modules and there was all always one of those There was failing for some reason What was buggy or there was an update from one module and then the other was broken again and so on and so on and so We always had to patch it and I hope with the file entity stuff that's causing to drool plates And with some basic media features in the plate I think hope we can just make one module that does all of that so that we don't have to be scared With upgrading or media module Yeah file entity is is not going into drool plate as far as I know Just didn't work out. So You will not get fillable files drool plate Yeah, it also was entered in triple seven, but just a really basic one Yeah, I mean that's probably related to that problem that I expressed before About really long development cycle of media Whether we need just only one module or more of them. It's it's very very much up to the bait. I'm more in favor of having separate stuff which can work together and the reason for that is that There are so many use cases outside and if you build just one solution that assumes stuff Then you're probably not Very good at covering those use cases I'm gonna second that I actually agree that You know, you don't want big monolithic media handling modules. You want the tool chain that's You know kens divide and conquer the problem space because as I said, it is a very complex problem space The trick is getting that balance right and it sounds like I'm not a heavy media person myself But it sounds like the balance for where the dividing lines were and so forth didn't really work in triple seven So I think a lot of the question is all right, you know, where do we draw those lines and where do we break up the problem space so that we can have You know these three relatively stable modules and then do the crazy stuff on top of that in first expense Experimental ways and are there pieces of those, you know baseline modules that we can push into core within Drupal eights development cycle to make that easier if we can we should Exactly where that line is. I don't know but That's I think the question we should be asking is where can we divide this up to minimize the amount of duplicate work that has to happen Someone else is here is asking how do we make that assessment? I don't know. I'm not a media guy but You know my Kind of my knee jerks thought there would be each module should do Something atomic on its own something useful. So like, you know file entity I think is a good example of a place to draw a line because that's take, you know file entities and put fields on them That's one problem space just deal with that and be done with it And then that module should not do anything beyond that File browsing and selection might be another one again I'm not I'm not the right person to decide where those lines are but I think the guy line is Atonic chunks But but it needs mapping that we need yeah, do we still need to map that problem space then yes and See the moving parts in that ecosystem, I think that we should make these parts work together and and definitely those parts need to be stable enough for people to use like like you mentioned and That's why I think that we should start to think about it Early enough to reach the stable state In a decent amount of time So based on the research that you did do you think that you would be able to identify maybe three or five kind of Core standard sets of features that you could then kind of reverse engineer to do those things that you were just talking about and say You know, these are the three kinds of implementations that are most common And then work backwards from that or do you think you'd need to I mean, it's you know sounded like you did a lot of homework It's it's I believe that it's possible but here's also Diplomatic problems, you know Yeah, political stuff because people are working on their solutions and they love them it's it's totally human thing and If if somebody will come and say we should do this like that then those people will not come together and they will can just continue work on their own solutions and Right, right Code that does the same thing four times or five times, but you brought research. Sorry, but you brought research It's not like you are saying we should be doing this no research. I don't want to do that I mean, I would never do that because I don't believe it's a solution. I Think it's it's possible to do it, but it's neat. It needs a lot of Conversation it needs Some serious approach maybe a dedicated sprint where People that are most active in this field would come together and spend a week together and try to To find similarities or something like that. I don't know. Maybe that's that's that's a possibility or solution for that One thing I would like to see right in the beginning that we separate file handling from media handling Because there are different things and if I might not be Might not need to be field of it, right? If we say file is that thing on the file system It's something completely different that could be handled by Drupal core like the way it does it right now And we had media handling by having a media entity which may use files or may not or may use several files on one media Yeah, we could I agree. I I had a use case where I would definitely need file entity and on something that would represent media That would attach files and also other stuff to itself Because it was some metadata overriding stuff going on and Yeah, that's why I said that there are very different use cases out there and it's not good to assume that if I need to Fields and files then somebody else will need it. So, yeah Can use file entity, but it can also allow people to use something else Yeah, probably one thing that could help us with this a lot is entity reference in core because now everything is much more flexible But we shouldn't over complicate it because then we just complicated and never Come out with with a good solution, but yeah I've been also thinking a lot about these questions that you brought out and I Don't have definite solutions. I know what kind of solution would work for for projects where I was part of But that's definitely not the only case that can appear Yeah, I basically can just agree that File entity is something awesome and necessary as an API But as one of the poor guys that had to maintain media browser plus with the earlier really bad Cod base in version 2 It it was also pain like we had this API file entity and It was a moving target and even now we have code that checks Okay, is this method part of media or is it already a next version? And is it in file entity and then you have this crazy ifs and and that's just Unmaintainable. I was close to creating stuff like trash does for in deciding on which environment it acts, but that that's just not the thing that media browser should do so it's definitely about Yeah, creating an architecture where we define domains problem domains and who is responsible for that Like having an API freeze actually that would help very much at least that I agree. I I remember when on my summer of code project which is Working with derivatives of us and stuff There there there was every few months. That's an issue appears that Methods that returns all the file types is not there anymore So I now I have like for for if statements there to to to decide which one to call Yeah, so I have a couple things So in terms of like organization what you're I think what you're basically saying then or at least the conclusion that I have from what you said is that Media really needs to be an initiative like a top-level initiative for Drupal 9 Which is which would be awesome, of course, but I think which is something Although obviously the it's not community decided in in a practical sense. I think that's something that we could actually At least make more probable if like people start blogging about it or you know if there's like a real consensus or a community movement that Media handling is the next the next thing we need that Drupal 8 just doesn't cut it in in terms of media handling Yeah, so that's basically just a comment Yeah, I mean media initiative was Unofficial media initiative was there for Drupal 8 right, but it didn't really succeed Because it probably didn't get enough attention and the main developer was busy and didn't have enough time to to To push it forward, I guess, but it shouldn't rely on you in one person because then this stuff happened and Yeah, I believe it should be an initiative or However, we will call it for Drupal 9, but I also think that it's More important to to have it fixed in Drupal 8 Maybe to add some stuff into core if we still have time. We don't have much time left. I guess to make big changes but we can we can do it early enough in contrib and and then will be much easier to to Work on this for Drupal 9. So yeah, it's kind of what I tried to say, but We probably have to focus on Drupal 8 right now Right. So and the next thing I wanted to say is that what was talked about Like cutting or making the cut or drawing the line between different modules or when to when to start a new module or I think that's Maybe the crucial or at the very least a very crucial part of the problem Because I think especially with media handling and especially because there are so many use cases They're like two Two fronts crashing with media handling because for instance, I'm a developer So if I were to tackle that problem I would create file entity API or file entity in core and then I would create a maybe Media browser module and then I would create this module and that module and then we'd have 20 modules And then they all have their own admin interface and then the UX team after we'd have 25 modules They'd say like, you know, that's Completely bizarre and we should start the other way around so but you have to do it in between so you can't like so it's also hard to to start with mock-ups completely without any code behind them and then Find your way down. So I think that's like especially with the handling because there's so many different use cases media browsing of local files remote files embedding and you know, it's like a very So it's that's I'm not like providing a solution But I think that's like the very crucial thing that we have to somehow figure out how to get both people in the same room or yeah Yeah, definitely. I'm I'm very much On the side as I already told you that that these parts needs to be cut, but I really believe that Planning of this has to be has to be general. So we shouldn't plan each separate parts separately, but we should plan it together and also plan the lowland architecture of this and the user experience and UI and Then get it done in smaller pieces Because if we plan just piece by piece Then you end up with something that it's not very Yeah, yeah and Inconsistence you eyes and all the problems So yeah, that's what I think that we have to talk I don't think that we have to start code right now I would love to say that we should go on Sprint on Friday and start Doing stuff, but that's that's probably not a solution It's a lot of discussing and planning that has to be done before that How do we do it, I don't know as I said my idea was to organize something where Where people can come maybe as a part of some events that are coming like Bad camp or in Europe is trouble camp in Vienna that has Prince I don't know Those are my ideas how to approach it and but probably needs to be really focused if you want to come with Good conclusions with good plans you have to get those people there and Allow them to be focused only on this problem for probably a few days at least Yeah, so I've been telling my customers for the last sort of year and a half That based on rumor and blog posts here and there that medium was going to be part of drew play and therefore it was the way to go So to hear that not even file entity has made it into drew play core is quite frankly Incredibly disappointing to say the least Hold my hands up. I haven't directly contributed to any of this. So, you know but Surely that is the place to start like I'm actually going to disagree with one of the guys who spoke a bit earlier because I think If you get file entity in there and you make sure that Drupal core all it does is treat files as entities So if you upload a file you get an entity with that instantly means you've got bucket loads of functionality You know, you can apply permissions. You can you can field it. You can customize it You can you can choose how you want to display it and you would have all of that stuff out the box Drupal core shouldn't be thinking about anything else And then you can let the likes of media modules sculled whoever else Bally out over the user interface because they are very different And you know, it just seems to me that it's fairly obvious that that really is the way you ought to go because even in the case where you've got Files where you're not interested in in having fields and permissions. Just don't use it You know, if you if you if Drupal behind the scenes is just taking care of creating an entity And you don't want to add extra fields to it. Don't you know That's definitely a word approach it not a media guy either I've done a little bit of work with media module and usually I choose to work on something else I had a few questions around this and I guess I don't really know any answers, but I'd be willing to kick in a little bit of research if that's gonna help It looks like there's a whole range of possible solutions from I just want to get a picture into my blog post to Sort of the high-end being digital asset management type of solutions Probably we need to address the high-end as well as making sure that it's usable for the low-end for the high-end What what is out there what what are other open-source projects doing is there anything that we can Leverage and with the commercial digital asset management products Are there Apis that we should be looking at or are there any standards around this? I don't know has anything been done in this in terms of this part of the research or I Checked the most obvious open source CMS's and And What what I saw, but I'm not expert for any of them is that they basically tackle this Basic part of the market with maybe there are some plugins or anything. I didn't go so deep but I would expect that there is something that also solves problems for for for higher end of the market and But I'm not aware of the solutions and maybe what I should have done But I didn't so this would probably be a really nice thing to to research Ideal solution would be that we can plug something in and it works great And it's it's something that's emerging as a standard and and I've been also thinking a lot about this problem there is definitely a part of our users that that have very complex requirements and there is also a lot of Very small sites that have just basic stuff to do and I'm still not sure if We can tackle this together. I hope that we can But I'm not really sure how Because for for someone who is having a blog If we speak about Sidewide media library and If we have categorization of this media They probably just Need something that is similar to IMCE which displays folder structure and It doesn't use the salmon taxonomy or any other mechanism to to do categorization while for someone who is Who have very complex system It's definitely a must to have more powerful System for for categorization than just fast system folders So yeah, I've been thinking a lot about that and I'm not sure yet, but Is there a place where there's ongoing discussion on this? I just know it's a pain point for me and a lot of people but there is there is a Groups to Drupal org group called media Where discussion should probably be taken It's not much of traffic there right now. It just Just hate posts comes from time to time And that's Definitely not the way to solve problems I'll check it out. I certainly going to kick in some research Yes, Michael from please Discussion about integrating to pull some way with the al fresco And then the way they were trying to do it like Mapping Drupal nodes to al fresco directories or something so it was very for me it was and I guess for my customers as well. It was kind of Not exactly comprehensive solution So but if you want to reach The enterprise and corporate markets We we absolutely need something like that So probably not that complicated because we We made it with al fresco and then it showed that it was too much functionality or it was very difficult to get Microsoft Office metadata from documents and stuff like that so We couldn't even use it so if we want to to get into SSI corporate markets then They have they used to have intranets and the file document management in any form comprehensive Is a must so it's more of a side note it definitely sounds like we all agree that the Meet the status of media handling in D7 is inadequate Just reminder the tool chain in Drupal 8 is vastly different. I think vastly improved between Plug-ins in core views in core Some of the file handling that PHP 5 3 enables our ability to stream files much more easily I think this is a good time to not start from the base of media or scald or any other major D7s But actually blue sky it because it's not going to be any more work Then trying to Straight port one of those existing solutions So this is a good opportunity to just reevaluate the tool chains that's a better available Identify those gaps and build on that new model just like media or Commerce one were built straight for D7 and it's just left off what came before them I think that the changes for D8 are large enough that that's the right way to do it And that's also going to be an easier way to do it for figuring out what exactly how this should look in D8 Just that the tool chain is different enough that it's better to start with a fresh look at what those tools offer Thanks You're a tall guy Like not to have one solution that tackles most of the problem, but like we have file entities we have Media Rosa plus whatever The problem I see that is that like current media solution has too many different stuff trying to work and don't work The only good example that really complex one that works is like I guess see tools use panels combination, but It was managed only by one guy for the most of the time miles that right the most of the code That's the one thing. So if we want to do it. I agree that that would be the best Best thing to do to decoupled everything and that everything works nicely and can be used in other places but It would be very difficult. I think because Like for a file entity Have a bad solution that is not maintained anymore and if all other let's say new media Thing for duplicate will depend on file entity and that make time step off during the big problem I would more and also You shouldn't expect form and user that they should install five or ten models or whatever For some media handling, which is very complex to configure or whatever. I Would more prefer that we have a solid base that is let's say tackle 80% of the End-user problems, but we do it like very extensible. So others can plug in Yeah, and the second I would like to To see how we can perceive it is because most of us agree that For Drupal 8 we should maybe start from the scratch because it's completely new system and we all are here gather it so How to proceed with it now should be like I don't know if Friday Get somewhere and talk Because probably we cannot call now that the silly but I guess we should identify people that Want to contribute and or start organizing Yeah, we can definitely do that I'm prepared to attend this kind of Sprint or meeting if we decide to have it What I can also do is I can I can try to write a wrap-up of this discussion on groups so we can We can maybe also use that. Yeah Okay, then we can we can try to we can we can say that we will have a Sprint or or a meeting on Friday Where we can talk? How to tackle these problems for Drupal 8? That's great Good point. There's something where I wanted to talk about I do not understand very well spoken English So excuse me for repeating something with which was speaking spoken I Feel that you talked about the big chip picture and we here Started to talk about parts of it. It's not a good thing. You said This is this can't rely on one man To solve this problem, but I think it's a very big and very complex problem and we can't can't solve it if we Didn't have a leader We need at least one leader just like the initiatives of Drupal 8 And we we have to work a lot of On to have enough people to work on it. So I think we need a leader. We need a plan It's which can based on what you have researched Maybe I don't know. I don't know what did you find? Maybe we have to make much more research. I Came here. I Hope that we your research will give some answers, but it seems we just have more more questions So it's definitely what we do Is Rightest questions find the people who are Interested in and and make a program make a progress. Maybe we should Create a distribution a program like the spark Was for Drupal, but they not a user and editor experience, but about the media handling so I think the first thing we have to do is the gathering on Friday and On this gathering we should to start the right code, but should find people and And the program of what what we have to do We have to create the first plan and after that we have to do a lot of other plans And we have to communicate it very very much very everywhere. We we can the video isn't enough You have to tweet it We have to find the people who can a big voice it cause we thought we won't be able to do it The That's my two cents Yeah, I didn't say that we don't need a leader. I just said it if one man band is doing it. It's not okay it's So complex problem space that it definitely needs a leader And I agree that it probably needs to be someone that is respected person that others will follow So Yeah, and there are a lot of a lot of questions So once I like to go out from here that we decided or at least one thing So it is that thing that this discussion will be continued on Friday. That's a good thing I think so just I just I don't want to leave that way that we have a lot of questions We have opinions and and we didn't go forward Yeah, that's I think that's that's a very good conclusion for the first step Hello, I'm the author of PDF E-PAP and Apache solar file Modules and all of them are based on file entity. So I think I have some experience to share At the beginning I released this module space depending on the file entity the recommend did a release as soon as found Most the issues are fixed on the devil and but It's not so frequently to release the recommended release. So I end up just asking Users to use the kids to check out the latest file entity to and use with my own models Yeah, I think is Difficult for users to maintain stare That was definitely a problem. I had same problems Even today we are talking about Drupal 8 for 7 the 32 is still on after 2 Yeah, I mean that I I mentioned this problem that the the the development cycle of media was very very long and it the Development version was basically the only one that was Suitable to be used, but it was a moving target So yeah, those are problems that that are right now and I think that only in the best thing we can do It's learn from this and try to avoid this Kind of things in the future. So I I if I don't have a solution for you how to Fix media for Drupal 7 right now, but maybe we can change the strategy to release Like Firefox or Chrome, it's not perfect, but you can make a recommended release and look up profile Pornopoli is also depending on file entity and it's quite a popular distribution So the developer I think they also use it to check out the certain release from the depth of file entity It's quite tricky for Uses to track that and I can't know no should I update the Files entity module to the latest that word or not Yeah, that is a problem and I think that one of the reasons for that problem was that as this system was being developed People realize that something is not working and Took a different approach at some point of time. So between Media 1.x and file entity which is in that media and to point x. It's a huge difference and I'm not sure if if a different release cycle would Would fix that because that would happen anyway, I think I think that the way to approach these problems is to start working on it early enough To have it in something that we will hopefully have in next version Being stable early enough I think that's the way to approach that problem Yeah, but I agree with you. That was a huge problem and I had some problems with my projects and modules Hi, Genez and I I made a session about Scal yesterday, so I'm really interested into your conversation And I just wanted to say that we truly agree with your constructive approach Because I think now is the time to talk and to share and to see where we can go based on your experience from big media sites and based on our experience and I just wanted to point it out that there's an issue open in the issue queue Media about merging these two solutions for Drupal 8 So maybe we should continue this into this talk and this issue queue Because we didn't want to we do not want to make two solutions again or three solutions again so I just wanted to say that people at Scal they have a very Constructive and share your approach and that we should design first like design the UX and design the technical architecture Whether it's entities. How should we use these entities and what are the use cases? So Let's talk on Friday. Yeah. Yeah, let's do and maybe if you if you agree people that are Working on these solutions. Maybe you can prepare a presentation How you architected stuff and why did you make decisions like you did? What are the arguments that you have? So we we have maybe we have few presentations and then then we have something to work on because if we'll just show up there It would be much harder to To talk Maybe just one comment more because it's coffee time, I guess And Well, firstly, thank you very much and thank you to everyone that's made contributions This is my first Drupal conference and I've been going to all the business and strategy streams and learning nothing. So This has been really terrific I'm one of those enterprise corporates is looking for a digital asset solution and We all have very similar challenges. We have many different Business models different channels to market Which means lots of different brands and we want to reuse digital assets across all those different brands know where they are And not waste a lot of money on people development But I just wanted to just throw in one other thing to think about a few years ago We were looking to replace an intranet Corporation I was working at so we did a survey similar to your survey monkey and we asked everyone What they use the current intranet for and we got some incredible responses people were using it in all sorts of ingenious ways that we hadn't realized They were searching for policy documents that were buried in within the intranet They were using it to seek out people that they could collaborate with and work with and Just all sorts of imaginative responses And then we looked at the logs and we used some software to read to interpret the logs and tell us the traffic and Tell people tell us what people were actually doing And 99% of them were looking at the cafe menu the internal job vacancies and the org structure So so what's for lunch? What jobs are out there? And who do I need to smooth to go and get one of those jobs? So so I think surveys are great I think they give you some sentiment data But if you can get hard evidence of the problems that you're all having And how you're all having to come up with different solutions to similar problems Then I think you've got real momentum because this is this is a big topic lots of companies in order interested in it Okay, that's common. Thanks Okay They asked me to advertise sprint which we're obviously attending now I can I can try to contact sprint organizers and Make this thing kind of official So even people that are not in this room can can hear about it and Yeah, I will try to push information about the location and and You know room information stuff like that to Twitter or Maybe on most session page in comments so you can find it That's my Twitter handle And yes, please please evaluate the session I will also publish the slides on on on the session page. So you don't need to write down URL or my Twitter account or something just go there and you will see it there and Thank you for attending and hope to see you on Friday You