 No, I didn't. I did not prepare the normal introduction for the ZBA meeting because I don't think we need to for a for an administrative meeting. But first of all, what I will do is have a quick roll call vote for who's in attendance. Steve judge is here. John Gilbert present. I am and Everard have you have you been sworn in? I have been present. Okay. And you're present. So we have a quorum with you of the full members. Mr. White, have you been sworn in yet? I have not. Okay. But you're present and Hilda, have you been sworn in? Yes. Okay. And Miss Marshall, have you been sworn in? Yes. Great. All right. So we have a quorum present. We can begin our meeting. This is really just an administrative meeting. We had originally planned to have a special permit to be considered. The applicant wasn't ready. So it actually gives us time to go through a few things. Get the sort of introduce the new members to the ZBA. You guys introduce yourselves to us and you can become a little bit start the process of you being familiar with the ZBA process, the kind of things we deal with in the way we deal here at the ZBA. So first of all, I want to just congratulate Philip and Hilda and Everard and Sarah for your reselection. And I want to thank you for your willingness to volunteer and help it and serve the town in this manner. So it requires some work. As you know, Sarah, and as you know Hilda, you've done this before and John, it takes some time and effort. And I want to thank you for committing to do that. So that's great. So what I'd like to do tonight is first just give everybody a chance to introduce themselves briefly so we know just a little bit about each other. So we're familiar. That includes both Rob and Chris. I'm going to ask you to just say just a word too about yourselves. And then I just thought I'd go a little bit through the role of the ZBA, your role on the ZBA, and then have time for questions, if you have them. And so that's really what I would hope to accomplish through this process today. So I'll start. I won't, I won't expect our new members to start off speaking immediately and immediately introducing themselves. So this gives you a chance to prepare. I, when we retired, my wife and I retired, we knew we wanted to retire to a college town. We thought the civic life, the cultural life, the academic life, the sports, everything of college town were attracted to us. And we found life in Amherst to be great. And so that's what drew me here to Amherst. And when I got here, I knew I wanted to be involved in the town and I showed out the form just like you did. And I had a meeting with some staff people in the town and I found that the ZBA kind of the role, the ZBA meshed really well with my professional, previous professional career. So I applied and I became a member of the ZBA, I guess in 2017, Chris, I think that's right, 2018, something like that, 2017. And I've been on the board ever since. I found it enjoyable, interesting, and I think fulfilling. And so I hope you feel the same way. So that's my history here on the board. John, you're a returning member. Can you tell us just to just do the same kind of thing a little bit about yourself and what brought you on to the board? Yeah, I think I joined the board in 2021. Is that correct? Yeah, summer 2021. I'm an architect. I worked in Boston for a handful of years, interface with the Zoning Board of Appeals out there on a variety of projects. You know, things that myself and the firm I was working for were, you know, bringing to the ZBA. I relocated to Amherst in 2020, September 2020. I was attending UMass for my business degree at Eisenberg and have since transferred into real estate development. So I'm working as a real estate development project manager for a local community development corporation by the name of Wayfinders based in Springfield. Do a lot of mixed income, let's say a lot of affordable and a handful of mixed income projects all across Western Massachusetts. But my desire to get involved with the ZBA out here was just, you know, from my experience professionally out in Boston. And, you know, wanting to bring some of that expertise that I had seen on the other side of the table. You know, out here to Amherst, to Western Mass, to Amherst in particular, especially with a lot of, you know, new projects sort of popping up for housing, etc. So it's been, you know, pleasurable amount of time that I've been here. I guess it's been two years now, just over two years. So, you know, glad to still be here serving and, you know, a pleasure to meet new members here today. Sarah, I hear a returning associate member. Can you just give us a brief introduction for yourself? Sure. And a cat may pop up on my desk. No, it's going away. All right. Let's see, we've moved to Amherst about 11 or 12 years ago and maybe six years ago I started to volunteer for town boards. I was on the Recreation Commission for quite a while and the Community Preservation Act Commission shared that for a few years. This sounded interesting. People in Amherst are very interested and or concerned about development and the look of the physical environment. I thought it would be interesting to learn about that. My husband is an architect. He's on the planning board. So I feel like I've been exposed to a lot of relevant topics, but this has been my chance to learn. It's been really interesting. Thank you, Sarah. Now we'll turn to our new members. We'll do the full members first. Philip, do you want to go through what brought you here and what interests you about the CBA? Absolutely. And first of all, thank you guys for having me. But no, I am from Wilmington, North Carolina. And my partner likes to make the joke to everyone that for my midlife crisis, I decided to go back and finish my college degrees, which is true. So I am a student at Amherst College, studying economics as well as political science. My background as far as governance government is I have a passion for municipal government. I ran for a seat on the Wilmington City Council. Wilmington is a city of approximately 145,000 in 2021, sat on several boards, board of directors. My background is in economic development plans in zoning. So I do know an awful lot about different things that may come up with zoning in North Carolina. I hope everyone will be patient for me as I'm learning this very detailed information from Massachusetts. But once again, thank you. Great. Thank you. Everyone, tell us a little bit about yourself. Hi guys. I'm Edward Henry. So I'm a local attorney here here in Amherst. I moved out here in the fall of 2016. My wife took a job at UMass and she was on a tenure track. And now that it's official that she has tenure, I thought that we're settled. We're home. I started doing some volunteer work and participating in local government. And I thought it was a good place to start. I serve as a board member on my daughter's school here in town. I do, I've been doing some work with the Crest program. So I'm trying to get involved as much as I can. And so I'm just glad to be here to help out anyway. Thank you, Edward. And welcome back, Hilda. Hi. Background. Oh gosh, I can fill a book, but I won't. I've been around here for a very long time. And when I, well, I guess I got into local history and Connecticut Valley, Art and Decor and architecture set her through my husband who needed an old house that was all he could afford when he got tenure. And so I guess I live in a very old house right now and have the joke is I guess every time I got a part-time job, my husband invested in another old house, which we have quite a few of them that we rent out. And that's supporting me in my retirement. And let's see. When we moved into this house, my neighbor next door recruited me to be a town meeting member in 1975. And I lasted to the bitter end. Let's see. In the seventies, Lou Hayward appointed me to the transfer. He was the manager and appointed me to the transportation committee. I guess I was the only one on it that didn't have bus service. And then I've been an assessor. I was on zoning board for eight years, starting around 2005. And I have been involved in four or five various parts of it to all of it. Strawberry fields, which doesn't exist. And it won't be a drive. And I've been chair of a few meetings. Chris can fill you in on the rest of it. But I, I've been, this is what I wanted to bring up. I've been observing planning and zoning and historical commission since the eighties. And I've been covering this board as you probably know, since you went on zoom. I covering it for the indie and I will be very well. If you find that that's a conflict. I will not cover any of the meetings for indie. I did not plan to cover any of the meetings. If I ever am chosen as a panelist to be on that, but that's for you to decide if that's a conflict. I guess. What else Chris, what, what should I tell them? Web bodies just driven me to more meetings. Holy cross college. Over the years. It's good training. It's good training. Holy cross college. And Hilda has a son, Joel, who also owns property in town and does a really good job of renovating his properties and keeping them up. So. Yeah, Joel. He's been before you guys. Yes. Various projects. Well, he learned from this model. No. No modesty here. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. No modesty. Thank you. There are two other members who couldn't be here to one full member, Craig Meadows. He's still working in his business. But he's out of town. And David Slaveter who's retired, but couldn't make the meeting tonight. So as he's an associate member. So those are our members of the ZBA. Again, welcome all. I want to give you a chance. I want to thank the ZBA staff that we work with. And it's a big job because we get a lot of stuff before the ZBA. A lot of it is complicated. It requires not only institutional knowledge, but I mean, not only knowledge of the ZBA and bylaws, but also institutional knowledge and knowledge of the town. And we have great staff that serve us. Our principal staff person, our primary contact is Rob. And then Chris Brestrup is the planning director. Rob, do you want to say a couple of words about what you've, how you came here and Chris, and then you can tell us about your story career here at Amherst. Yeah, sure. So my name is Rob Wachilla. I am a planner in the planning department. I am also the staff liaison for the zoning board and the design review board. I started working for town back in late March. I used to be the planning director in the town of where for two years prior to that. So basically what I do for the board is that I handle all the permitting. So every permit that comes before the zoning board, which includes special permits, it includes variances and also includes what are called administrative appeals. So that's when somebody challenges the decision of the billing commissioner. And basically what I do is I organize the permits. I schedule a meeting date before the board on your behalf. I create what are called project application reports. So basically I give you like an extensive report on a permit. It'll give you everything you need to know backgrounds. It'll give you any information that's important. It'll give you my analysis of the zoning bylaw and how it relates to the project. So I kind of give you guys like a cheat sheet. So this cheat sheet can be very helpful in your decision making. And I also help you determine conditions that you would instill on these permits as well. So basically what I do is I, I pretty much am your source of knowledge for a lot of these different projects. I know the zoning bylaws really well. Chris breaststroke knows them pretty well as well. As well as billing commissioner Rob more, who cannot be at this meeting tonight. So you'll always have us at these meetings. Usually it's not uncommon for, you know, staff to help answer any questions and stuff like that. But otherwise I'm the guy that you're going to be hearing from a lot. I will send out these invites and I'll probably call you out once every two weeks asking if you can serve on the panel. So I look forward to working with, with Phillip. Everold and Hilda. So. Lucky to have you guys on board. Chris. Yep. So I've been with the town for 20 years now. Before that I was working as a landscape architect. I was trained as a landscape architect at UMass. And practice landscape architecture for a couple of decades. But when I saw this job with the town was available, I was really interested. I'm also very interested in municipal government. I didn't think I would be because I studied international relations when I was in college, but municipal government is so interesting because you actually can have an effect on it. And you feel like you have an impact and you can do good things. So I started out as the staff person for the zoning board of appeals. And that was about the time that Hilda joined the ZBA. And I worked with Hilda for quite a long time with the ZBA. I'm now the staff person for the planning board. But I also kind of oversee the staff in the planning department. And Rob is one of them. Nate Malloy is another one. And Pam field Sadler is our administrator. And we all work together really well to try to serve the public and also to serve the boards and committees that we work with. So I'm really happy to meet you all the people that I didn't know before and happy to see people that I know already again. And if we can be of any help to you, please let us know. You will see me at some of the more. How can I say this interesting or controversial, whichever way you want to look at it. So I'm really happy. Thank you. We have some hearings, particularly with regard to applications for. Comprehensive permits for affordable housing developments. And also for solar developments. So I'm particularly interested in those two types of projects. And they do draw a lot of public attention. So, you'll, you'll have a lot of staff support on those kinds of projects. So anyway, happy to be here and nice to see you all. And I do want to emphasize that they're a great resource when you have questions for a host of reasons, some of them legal, you've got a question about a pending application. I think it's really smart for you to, after you do your own work, give a call to the staff and ask if they can help you. We have to be careful about talking to each other about pending applications because the open meeting rule, that's something else for later time to discuss, but the staff is a great resource and I hope you use it. I thought I'd like just talk a little bit about the role of the ZBA and what its function in town and then how it functions. So the ZBA is really a quasi-traditional body. Our role is to apply the zoning by-law given that we have a certain amount of discretion to make decisions to allow for a special permit or a special, not a variance in terms of the legal term variance, but to permit something that would not otherwise be permitted but for the special permit being approved. That is what we do. But our job is to take that, take what discretion we have, make the, and then follow rules that set out in the by-law for us to how we can make our decision whether or not to grant a special permit application before us or a comprehensive permit or a appeal of moving of the building commissioner. It's all based on the by-law and the by-law gives us a certain amount of discretion. That discretion is, we can use that discretion if we make certain findings and those findings are laid out in the by-law. Those findings tend to be most importantly in section 10.38. You're going to become very familiar with it. You're also going to become really sick of me reading about those findings that we have to make. But that's the nature of the job. And you'll, I think you'll start hearing 10.38 in your sleep at night. But that is one section of the zoning by-law that lays out sort of our jurisdiction under how our discretion can be used. Our role is not to make new zoning laws. Our role is not to provide sort of equity, fresh equitable decisions that are irregardless or not founded in the by-law. That was hard for me to understand at first when I first came on board. I thought that was going to be part of the job and it's not. I'd become very comfortable with what the role of the ZBA is and that it's founded on those and it's really based on the by-law and the discretion that we're given to make decisions based on the finding and based on the findings we have to make and based on the by-law. One of the ways in which we are able to make our findings in cases is that we will consider imposing conditions on a permit application. And that allows us to make the finding that, yes, it is not going to disrupt the neighborhood, it's not like trespass, it's not going to happen. It's not going to be noisy. It's not going to work to the detriment of the neighborhood or it's not going. It's, even though it's more parking than would otherwise be allowed, it's done in such a way that it won't disrupt the neighborhood. Those are the kinds of things that we do. And if we can't make those, if the conditions that we impose resolve a problem or a conflict with the zoning by-law, we can move on with the special permit application. And so the conditions themselves, while what I have found is that the conditions themselves allow us to make decisions that we wouldn't and to grant special permit applications that we otherwise would not be able to grant. We can solve problems for neighborhoods, solve problems for the applicant, solve problems for the town by dealing with these, by dealing with imposing a condition on a special permit application that then allows us to make decisions that are permitted under the by-law. So an example of this was a recent special permit that involves some parking issues. And those issues dealt with not only light trespass to neighborhoods, but we wanted to safely demarcate one parking area from a commercial area, residential parking area from a commercial parking area. And we did that by saying we had to create a buffer of light to prevent the trespass of light onto the neighbors. And you have to cleanly demarcate and wall off the residential parking from the commercial parking. So you provide a safe vehicular and pedestrian traffic in that area. The only way that we could meet those, those are two requirements of this zoning by-law. The only way we could meet those two requirements was to impose this condition. That was one of several factors that allowed us to make that special permit, to grant that special permit. So conditions and are an important part of the, of the special permit process. And that is how we many times can make our findings. So I guess the next thing I just want to talk about is, is, what is, you know, what is, how a special permit comes to us and how we consider it. So the first thing is the staff works with the applicant. They, they get at the first, they, they approach the staff. They either have a special permit package altogether or you help, the staff helps them put it together and make sure that it's complete before it comes to us. So we're not seeing incomplete special permit applications that we have to postpone until the work is done. Typically the, when it comes to us, it's all ready to be considered. And that's the staff working with the applicant. We have a meeting with, meeting is typically the first thing is that the, there's a presentation from the applicant. Then there's board questions from the board and answers from the applicant. And we open it up to the public and the public as can make public comments. The applicant responds to the board after those public comments are made. And then there's further board questions in this public hearing process. That's the first step in the special permit is a public hearing. Then we move to a public meeting. The public meeting is not typically where there's public comment or there's dialogue except between the members of the ZBA. We, if we need to have further information, we can seek it because we keep the public hearing open as a convenience. But we, this typically is just discussion amongst board members. And at that point, we start going through the conditions and making our findings. I believe that the only way you can make those findings is to deal with the conditions and so we deal with the conditions first. Approve those or just approve those in this environment of vote of the board. And then we move on to the, make the findings. And many times those findings are based upon the conditions. We make the findings and at the end we either decide yes or no if we can't make those findings, yes or no as to where the special permit application will be approved. What it comes down to is your many cases, you're not locked in. It's not a, it's not a straight jacket. You have to use your discretion as to, in the example I used before, you have to use your discretion as to whether that buffer is going to actually prevent the light trespass from cars onto the next property. That's your decision to make. I mean, there's not a, there's not a black or white on that. There's not a science on that in many respects. There is not an exact scientific answer. I mean, there was a science to how light trespasses, but, but there's not a prescribed answer to whether that's a trespass or not. It's your judgment. So that is where the discretion, your knowledge, your decision making comes in to the role of a ZDA member and how it affects the special permit application that you have before you. And the special permits are not, we do not, there's not a presumption that the special permit will be approved. If the special permit is, is that, it's a, it's a request to approve something that would, but for that special permit would not be allowed. And there's not a presumption that that special permit will be approved. So the conditions, the findings all have to be made to, to grant the special permit if that is the desire of the board. So Rob, you had your hand up. Do you want to add something? Yeah, so just a lot of the times when we're reviewing these applications on your behalf, we'll notice simple things that have to be corrected from what they submit to us. So like if, for example, their parking layout is incorrect and not designed to what's allowed in their zoning district or on their lot, we'll suggest that to them. But there's also other things where it's up to the boards. It's up to your discretion, as Steve was saying, for you guys as a board to make a decision on something. So for example, that could be requiring signage at certain areas on a property or the board discussing how, you know, whether or not a certain building or development is going to impact traffic, you know, those things, us as a staff kind of leave up to the board to determine as a group. So I just want to make that I wanted to bring that up just for consideration. Ms. Marshall. I wanted to say that we usually have site visits even before the first hearing, I think, and I have found found those very helpful to understand what we're seeing on on paper and what the specific concerns might be from neighbors or or whatever. It's just they're they're tremendously useful. I think that's a good point. It's really hard to visualize something just on paper, and it's really important if you get out to the property, you can walk the you can walk the boundaries of the building, you can walk the lot lines, you can see how it's going to affect much easier and it makes sense to you when you're back looking at the site plan or the drawings that otherwise would not be it would be hard to make the decisions without that site visit. So I think that's a really good point. I want to kind of stop here for just a second if anybody had a question or a comment about sort of the the role of the ZVA or the process we go through. I then want to kind of talk about your role and the ZVA and what what I found to be most effective, but I just want to open it up here for questions about either the process or the role of the of the ZVA in town. OK, I handle. You don't see it. Oh, I didn't see it. He'll do now. Go ahead. On one of the things that's bothered me over the years and it's coming to a head again is we have some really poorly maintained properties that came before zoning board. You know, I'll say way back when there. Well, in the two thousand five six sevens. They wanted to convert it from one family to two family and one happened to be on three fifteen Lincoln Avenue. It had been poorly maintained, needed a lot of. Window sill work that was rotten, a cell of bulkhead that had wood was rotten on that. And so one of the things that I decided as a new beyond the board that maybe this should be a requirement that certain things that we listed needed to be fixed within six months. Well, that was parallel to what was then put in all the time that the landscape had to be maintained in perpetuity. And I think that now that this new rent bylaws coming on that maybe we want to do something about sprucing up these properties so that they aren't that badly impacting a neighborhood. Put it that way, you worry about noise and about cars. But I think the maintenance of the property, both the building and the landscaping is important to me. And that's going to hit the fan this summer when these two bylaws coming, the nuisance bylaw and a rental registration bylaw. Thank you. Yeah. Other comments, questions? I don't always see hands up. So there's Chris, go ahead, Ms. Breschle. Oh, I just wanted to say to the new members that if you have an opportunity to read the Daily Hampshire Gazette, it's really helpful because it gives you a sense of what the cities and towns around here are like and what they're doing and what their values are and how the community operates. And just, you know, if you can get I get the paper cut because I'm old fashioned, but it's available online through subscription and it really is a good source of information. So I just wanted to put that out there because especially for people who are new to town, it could help you to understand how things operate here. Zero. Oh, go ahead. No, I was in in decision making for special permits. Is there a majority requirement or is it just is it unanimous or is it just majority? It's five, four, five out of four out of five. Superjority for four out of five for to grant a special permit. OK. And I heard site visits mentioned do we always do site visits or is it at a discretion? We almost most all I would say 85 percent of the time there's a site visit involved. Sometimes there's not if it's if it wouldn't add much value to the but most most times are site visits and we haven't been doing those site visits. We try to work around your schedule, your work schedule, so that there's one that works and and that will vary with the the panel that's proposed for that specific special permit. But that's one of the that's one of the headaches that Rob has to deal with, is how do we get how do we get everybody available to go to a site visit for a special for a specific application? But it's not a requirement. It's not a requirement that you go to it, right? No, it's not a requirement. Yeah, it's useful, but it's good. And my other question on that was do we go together as a group or do we can we go individually? Well, we try to have people meet together as a group that's that's preferable. I think you then can hear other questions that other people ask. But I at times when I can't make that when I can't make that site visit, I will either go by myself and observe the property or I'll ask I'll get Rob to go with me. And so we can walk the property and the landowner knows it. There's somebody there for a site visit and not some stranger walking around there on his or her land. So it's probably I think it's best everyone if we can all get together and go to that site visit, but it's not always possible. And sometimes you just go on your own. And do we give the applicants notification that we're doing a site visit and are they allowed to be there to give us feedback? Yes, but at the site visit, yes, to all those first two questions. Number one, we do they do know that we're there. We try to work with them in two. We do ask questions of them and ask them to give a very brief presentation, not of the merits of the case, but of what they want to do, not why, but what they want to do. And so we don't we don't want to litigate the special permit application on the site visit. And every time we make a list of questions that we ask of at the site visit and we we present those to the at the public hearing. So the public knows the kind of questions we ask and the response we got about it. So there's no sort of information that's not shared to the public at the site visit. But the site visit is really just there to understand the layout and understand the physical changes that are going to be made. It's not really to be there to talk about the relative merits of the application that's done in the public hearing and then subsequently in the public meeting. OK, Rob. So two things just to add on to the site visits. So basically, you know, when we meet up as a group for the site visits, we can only ask questions. We're not allowed to, you know, have any opinions, deliberate, no, that stuff until we get to the public hearing, which, you know, is advertised legally. And there's a meeting agenda posted for it. And the other thing I wanted to talk about was that there's a lot of resources available to board members and town committees and town boards. So, for example, as Chris mentioned, Holy Cross and Worcester, there's a lot of these in person and sometimes on Zoom trainings for local boards, especially those that are planning boards and zoning boards. So you'll have webinars that teach you about the special permit process. They'll teach you about variances, all the stuff that zoning board deals with, and if those resources are become available, of course, you know, us, the staff will make them available to you. Chris, I don't know if the town with the town have a budget for board members to do that sort of thing. Yes, the town does have a budget to pay for those trainings. So if you decide to go either to a webinar or if you want to go physically to Holy Cross to their day in March, where they have multiple trainings, then we can cover that cost. Yes. And so I know, Hilda, you've been on the board for a number of years, so you're familiar with all the permits the ZBA has to deal with. But Philip and Everold, I don't know, usually with new board members who come on to the zoning board and the playing board, we usually find time to meet with you one on one just to catch you up on speed with with the general laws that govern special permits and all the other permits that the ZBA deals with. So if you're both interested with meeting with myself and Chris Breschrup to discuss these with you, make that available to you. You can just let me know. Send me an email and we can find time to meet separately to do that. But that's basically all I had to say. I found that the Holy Cross seminars like in the two Holy Cross seminars are helpful. I haven't been on the Zoom and I suspect that could be more convenient. But the program on there was good and I found it helped me in my role. So that's number one. And number two, not only meeting with the staff, not only would it be good to understand more about the ZBA itself and the role it plays and about the different kind of applications, but there are also two laws that we have to be really cognizant of. It's the open meeting law. And I know you're going to get material, you've got material about that. And you've read it and you've signed a piece of paper saying that you understand it. But it's also good to have that discussion with human beings about what the open meeting law requires. And secondly, on the conflicts of interest, it's just really good to go over that. And I would encourage you to ask the when you do me with the staff, make sure you just bring that up as well, because that is sometimes counterintuitive to me to think that we really can't discuss matters outside the public meeting. And that's really true. We just we cannot do it. And in this it's and so we have to be very cognizant of that amongst ourselves as well as when the public comes and talks to you about it. And I my response when somebody asked me about a pending application is I really can't talk about it. And if I did talk about it, I would have to recuse myself from from dealing with if I talk too much about it with you and you spoke about my opinion, I'd have to recuse myself and you don't want me to do that. So you have to really be I think you have to be cognizant of that and aware of that and be careful about your comments around pending applications and talking to the staff will help you do that. You know, I just wanted to mention that was supposed to take the test online and get a certificate, which I already did last week. The other two people may not realize. And then there was something else in the letter. I don't I don't have a funny name, but I didn't know what it was. It's a harassment, anti-harassment. Yeah, yeah, I don't know anything about that. I didn't get any. Is that something I signed when I were in? I don't remember. I don't remember seeing anything about anti-harassment. So somebody will like it right to the clerk. And yeah, I did. I did do that when I signed in already, probably. All right. You may have I don't think you would have been sworn in if you hadn't completed your paperwork, but you may want to double check with. Well, I got sworn in and she had me sign a bunch of stuff. I don't know what it was, but I did have to do the course online and send her a certificate. Great. And, Phillip, you won't be able to participate until you actually are sworn in. So when you get it, let us know. I mean, as soon as you can, it's better than later, but let us know. How long? Yeah, the oh, sorry, I didn't interrupt. I know the issue that I'm facing is I was unaware that the appointment would be that quick of a turnaround. So I am actually in North Carolina for the summer. So since the COVID protocols are not in place, I cannot be sworn in until I am physically back president Amherst, which will be late August. So until then, obviously I'm unable to vote and I apologize to the board for that. But literally the day after the day that I get back into Amherst, I will get it done. All right. Great. Thank you. So I'd like to just talk briefly about your role as ZBA member and what the kind of things I think are important. First off, we meet twice, approximately, normally twice a month. You've got the site. You may have a one or two site visits for that meeting. There are Thursday nights from six, we hope six to nine. We try to keep that nine o'clock time as firm as possible. Sometimes we go over and I will use my discretion. If I think we're close to a decision and it's going to put us at nine fifteen or nine twenty, I'll keep going and we'll get it done. Also, if it's clear that we're not going to get, we're not going to be able to resolve the next item on the agenda. And it's eight thirty at night. We're not going to start it. We probably don't start it up. It's just the first one took too long. So I'm going to use my discretion on that. But my goal is to be done by nine o'clock. Three hours of meeting at night, I think, is long enough. And after that, I'm not sure that we all make a lot of sense. So by that time, I'm hungry anyway. So that tends to be what we do. Site visits are important. I encourage you to do that as much as possible when you can. And if you can't work with Rob, try to make sure that you can drive past the property or walk the property on your own. I think the one kind of the overriding thing I think is important as a member is that it's I think it's important to remember that when an applicant appears before the ZBA, it may be the most consequential interaction that person will have with the town government that in his whole life and his or her life in town, it can be about their home. It can be about their business, the future of their business. It can be about their neighborhood. It is really important stuff for most people when they appear to us before us. And I think that it's really important for us to be cognizant of that and to be respectful of that and try to show, number one, that is a fair process that we've deliberated. We have done our work to understand the how the bylaw applies in the specific case, understand the desires and the request of the applicant, the public commenters, that they seem that the process seems to be fair to them and that it is done in a way with full knowledge and full transparency. And I think that's really important because that gives us that maintains the legitimacy of the ZBA, the town in general, too. But it maintains the legitimacy of the ZBA that people think they got a fair shake and that and that I think is what's really important. That's the most important role I think you have is to do that. And I think you do that by being a diligent, hardworking member. And I'm convinced I know that my members have all been that way. I appreciate every one of them. And I'm sure that you guys are new members will do the same. But I think that is really what's important is that you're. And so how do you become a diligent and dedicated member? I think one, read the Project Application Report before the meeting. That's what the staff puts together is really valuable. We try to get that out to you in advance. I like to I want the material from the applicant to be into the staff so that they can put that thing together and get it to you days in advance. A week in advance is great. Days in advance, several days in advance is is a minimum. And if material comes in late and I feel it's significant material, I'm going to move to wait to make the decision so that we have the time to look at that material before us. So last minute change, big last minute change is not little ones or or decisions we come to in a conversation at the meeting itself. But if you get significant alterations to an application just before the hearing, that is unfair to us, unfair to town. We don't have the time to do the work on it. So I'd like to have that that stuff done and to you. But we can advance seven days, five days in advance. So you have time to to read it doesn't always happen. But that's the that's the goal and the staff makes it rather makes a great effort to try to do that. As we talked about site visits, I think they're they're important. But I think nothing's said about that. I also think it's a good thing to do is when you when there is a the applicant's presentation, I find it's really helpful if you write down your questions during the presentation and then have your questions ready when it's your time to ask them. There are times you'll want to ask a clarifying point. You know, I don't understand what you're saying or the pointer isn't isn't over the right place on the site plan. Or those are kind of clarifying quick shots that make sense. But interrupting the flow of the meeting with questions that can be asked at the end is probably the best way to do it. So take notes, just jot down your questions. I think that's a more effective way. It's also more efficient and allows the meeting to flow better. So that's a suggestion that I have. And I think that would be really helpful. I find it's very helpful. I also like I like to have everybody on board a meeting five minutes or so before we start. And that typically happens today. We just there's a little glitch. But get on if we have a Zoom meeting or any meeting five minutes ahead of time, at least just so we can make sure everybody's there. If there's any last minutes, administrative things, we have to deal with non-public things that they're at the meeting. So five minutes before is a good idea. We talked about the open meeting law, the be familiar and comply with it and conflicts of interest. And as I said, seek out the staff if you have questions. Or there's also the state ethics office through the state attorney general's office, Chris, or I think it's that's right. The state attorney, there's also the ethics office for complicated questions. I've used them at times as well. So and the last thing I'd say is get a hold of it. I know you've got a hold of the bylaws already. Somebody's given those to you. I'm not asking you to stay up at night and read the zoning bylaw because although it will help you sleep, it is not not all of it is particularly helpful. But what is helpful is to read section 10.3. It lists all the kinds of things that are the basic core of what we have to deal with and those findings that we have to make before we approve a special permit. That is going to be the thing that you hear most other sections nine point two, two and a few other ones, section seven for parking and et cetera, et cetera. But the big one is that and I think that would be helpful for you to review that, understand it a little bit, be familiar with it before you start your to have your first application. So those I think are the key that I would say would help to make you know, an effective, successful member of the ZBA. I don't know if any of my colleagues, current members have a suggestion or something to add to that that would be particularly helpful. If I may ask a question. Yeah. So I know the rationale behind the zoo meetings, but do we ever have these meetings slash hearings in person? We haven't since since the pandemic, we've had zoom meetings. So there's there's a couple of issues involved. One, there was a feeling had been a feeling amongst board members that zoom provided really good public access, even better than access at in a in-person meeting. And that's true. I mean, I think it's easier for people to log in to to a zoom meeting. There is a possibility of doing hybrid meetings where there's both some people are in attendance and some people are on zoom and then the public can be somewhere in attendance and some people on zoom. I've not done one of those yet. I don't know how that would work. I would like to see how other committees, other boards experience on that before we go to those hybrid meetings. And just in person meetings, I think there's some people that aren't as comfortable yet within person meetings. I know I've talked to Rob about this. Also, the other question is how effective is those hybrid are those hybrid meetings? And it's is the town really set up to do that effectively for the ZVA. They try it with the with the town council. I don't know if it's effective or not, but I've talked with Rob and I'll be talking with the staff about what we can what we do next. My preference, I like I like in person meetings. I think that you lose something when you don't have the familiarity, the body language, the eye contact that human beings are used to have. I think that's a natural way to talk to deal with each other and make decisions. But it hasn't been something we've been able to do over the last three years. So but Chris, I know you have your hand up. There's also some limitations on bandwidth of the town that we have to deal with as well. Chris, I wanted to say two things about the public meetings and whether they'd be in person or not. The state has given us the ability to have these remote meetings through. I think it's through March of twenty twenty five. So that is a fact. And then it's really up to the town manager to, you know, give us guidance about how individual boards and committees will proceed. But one shortcoming we have is that we have limited staff available. And some boards and committees can operate a remote meeting by themselves. They've been trained or their staff has been trained to do that. But others haven't. So it does, you know, require it to get involved. And and that's one of the reasons why the town manager has been reluctant to say, you know, the door is open to hybrid meetings. But I believe that he's going to give us some guidance sometime in September about how we'll be moving forward after the summer so we can look forward to hearing about that. The other thing I wanted to mention doesn't have anything to do with hybrid or in-person meetings, but I wanted to let you know. And this is something that I heard when I first came to work here. Everything we do in writing is public. It's a public document. So consider that whenever you send an email and make sure that it is in language that you wouldn't be embarrassed to see, you know, on the front page of the paper the next day or the next week because it's possible that somebody could make a public records request and your email would be would have to be put forward. So just keep that in mind. If you have something that's particularly sensitive that you want to talk about, you can pick up the phone and, you know, call one of the staff people. Or I think you could probably call Steve also because he's the chair. You wouldn't want to have a group of, you know, several of you doing that. But if I think of one person had something that he was really concerned about, he could call Steve or the staff to discuss it and figure out how to how to work with it. But, you know, I just wanted to give you that guidance. Don't put anything in writing that you don't want to be public the next day. OK, thanks. That's really good advice. Miss Marshall. Just one thing about the Zoom, I don't. I don't know if it's important for us, but it is certainly a great convenience to many of the applicants who may live. They live in Texas. The property owner lives in Texas and the landscape architect is in Boston. And it is easy for them to attend the meeting, obviously in cheaper to just do that by Zoom. But what I the reason I raised my hand was just to add from my first my year of experience on this board, that what I'm still learning and reminding myself is to separate the the discussion that the asking questions of the applicant in the public hearing. That's from giving my opinion about whether something is reasonable or a good idea, or why don't you do this? That that's later. I don't know that it's problematic, but but those two things are really supposed to be separate. Thank you, Sarah. Miss Greenbaugh. I just was wondering if it might be more effective when we have the training on the 40 B, that that be in person? Because I think that's going to be hard to do on Zoom. But I haven't experienced anything like that on Zoom. So it may work out OK. I just thought that that might be since it's not something the public would really be interested in watching. You know, I think I think we do have to have that as a public meeting. And I think it's it may not be much attendance to it, but I think it has to be we would be convening all of us together for the 40 B training. So I'm not I'm not sure that. Rob, I was going to add on to that. So the law firm that we work with, who's going to be doing the 40 B trainings for us, they're based out of Boston, and usually it's hard for them to get out here to attend a night meeting if it were in person. So the Zoom is really, the Zoom is really convenient for them as well. And they can like screen share and show us a presentation and whatnot. Steve, I don't know if you did you want me to go over like any like upcoming projects, or do you want me to wait till later to to bring it up? Well, yeah, we will go over that in just a second. The rock. I just want to give anybody else a chance to either ask questions like everyone did about Zoom or the process or anything before we go into kind of what's coming up next. Great. So, Rob, what what do we have coming up? Oh, I guess I take one last thing. We've got three different types of decisions we typically make. One is a special permit, one is an appeal to the building commissioner and one is a 40 40 B, right, 40 B comprehensive permit. And the 40 B comprehensive permit is a different kind of animal than the special permit or appeal to the building commissioner. It's done, it's principally done to combine a lot of processes in town to facilitate the provision of affordable housing in the town. And certain some requirements are lifted or eased, but the deliberation process for us is longer and harder. It's much more complex issues to discuss. We've had a couple of these in the last few years. We've got a couple coming up. And I think the staff has referenced that it's a really good idea that we will have some training on 40 B. It's not something you do very often. I've done one in my term as chair and there was one previously. And the one I did as chair was the affordable housing on route nine on in a couple of years ago. Also, there was a comprehensive permit. I think the the Mill District Housing was a comprehensive permit. Was it not? Yes. So it's not something that's done often, but it's a time consuming complex and it provides some real benefit in terms of affordable housing. And so when they do the training for that, that's going to be really important that all members the participate in that in that training process. I was just going to add that that's very important because robbery fields went through three different chairs and had to start over each time. So a lot of people had a chance to serve on that one. And then it turned out that the town bought it when it went back. Well, so it didn't happen, but I learned a lot on that one. All right, what do we have coming up, Rob? So before I get to that, I actually wanted to bring out one more important point, Steve. So when we pick a panel to serve for a specific special permit hearing, that panel stays the same throughout the course of that hearing. So say if a special permit has to go to two meetings, it's going to be the exact same five people at those two meetings. So that usually affects scheduling. Sometimes we might continue a meeting to three weeks out as opposed to the two weeks that you would normally see. So usually the ZBA meetings are done every second and fourth Thursday of the month. And obviously there's a holiday that changes it, but usually you don't see many holidays on a Thursday unless it's Thanksgiving, which is different. And then in terms of upcoming projects, so at the next meeting, which is July 27th, we have two special permits. The first one is for a what's called a non-owner occupied duplex. And essentially it's going to be two units, each with four bedrooms. So the eight units total and the owner has to go before the board to get a special permit or to build that building. So you will get meeting packets for that. You look at my calendar, not this Friday, but the following Friday and down the road in August, the the second meeting August, that's August 24th. There is a large solar project that is going to be coming before the board where it also shoots Berry Road. And it's run by a company that was known as AMP, but they got recently bought out by another company called Pure Sky Energy. And that's going to be 40 acres, the whole project. So it's going to be one of the largest solar projects that Amherst has ever seen. So there's going to be a lot of public attention for that project specifically. And in terms of selecting a panel, just generally, we usually ask the full members to serve so they get priority. And if not, all the full members can make it. That's when we start reaching out to the associate members. So everyone I'll probably reach out to you about the meeting on July 27th and John, I'll definitely reach out to you as well. So that's pretty much the gist of what we have coming up. Steve did mention the 40 B comprehensive permits. So there was one that was almost ready to be submitted a while ago, but they had some trouble with the site and the groundwater was too high. So they had to add three feet of fill to the entire 10 acres. So they're going to be coming for a little while, but the training will still be scheduled for Chris. We're thinking the first meeting August still, I believe, right? August 10th. We have to reach out to the to KP law to get that set up. Take that as a yes, you're shaking your head. Yes. So that's what's looking like for the next two or three meetings. We're going to have three special permit hearings. We're going to have that training first meeting August. And that's pretty much it for the for the near future. All right. Any questions from you guys from new members? Comments from old members? Questions? Any further? Yeah. You know, does Rob send out the packet to justify members that are serving? How does everybody get it in case they have to serve at the last minute? So usually I give them to the members who are serving. Obviously, if there's an emergency right before the meeting, I'll definitely send or give the packet to that member who has to fill in as soon as possible. The way it works is with the zoning board. And I don't know if it's always been done this way because I've been here since March, but I deliver the packets to each of you and just leave my front doorstep to make it convenient. I don't know if the board still wants me to do that, Steve. You could probably answer that question. I think it's really helpful. I mean, what happens if you complete the packet on Friday and you put it in the mail, you know, at the best will be Monday. So it's really helpful to have it delivered to them if you can, Rob. Yeah. You know, if you complete the packet work on Tuesday and you have a couple of days to get it in the mail so that everybody receives it on Friday, that's OK, too. But that doesn't tend to happen very often. Gives me an excuse to leave early, so I can't complain about that. But yes, that's usually what we do. We make sure you guys have at least six days to review everything. So you're prepared for when the meeting comes. These packets usually contain the meeting agenda, the minutes from the last meeting and then everything that pertains to the project, whether it's materials they submitted, the plans they give, pretty much everything that you'll have. Yeah, I got two more things. One is that the telephone number on the sheet that was sent around is not the telephone that I usually answer because it's my landline and it's usually spam and it's in the other room. And so I sent Rob my cell phone number and it looked like the same issue with everybody, that it was the same landline phone for both columns. If that's not the phone line people want to be called on, they may want to fix that. And then the second thing I wanted to say, what do you think about my still covering the meetings for the Amherst Enday? You don't have to answer it now, but think about it and Steve, let me know what you think. I will. I'll talk to Tom Clerk as well. And but I will get back to the conflict form, but it's not really something that I can claim because I don't get money for it. It's a loan to you. Yeah, I'll give it. I will give it some thought and I'll get back to you right away. Yeah, people read it. They really do. Ms. Bresko. So I just wanted to say that I believe that Rob is putting all of the packet materials online so that the public can read it as well. So that's another way that you can look at it if you don't happen to have your paper packet with you and you're in an airport and you're bored, you could go online and look at it. Let's just add the plans. That's all on an iPad. Or if you're not in power for that meeting, you'd be able to access the material that way as well. And you can easily get that material by going on the ZBA's web page on the town website. And then there's a little tab that says meeting packets. If you click on it, it takes you to everything. Easily access it. Yep, everything's there. And one other thing that people should know is that these meetings are all recorded and we often have people who tune in and watch the meeting while it's happening. And the meeting is also on YouTube afterwards. So again, you know, you want to comport yourself in a way that you would be happy to have people see you online, which I'm sure you will, but I just thought I'd put that out there. Wonderful. Well, this is the last call for questions, last call for comments. And if there are none, I just want to again welcome our new members. And thank you for your willingness to serve the town. And I look forward to working with you over the next three years. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. So we're adjourned? We're, we're, I, you know, it's a, it's a, I don't know that we need to have a- No, no, I just didn't want to, I don't want to- Yeah, I think it's, you know, let's, let's have the most and just so that we are official on it. So I will take a, I would take a motion to adjourn. Is there one? So moved. So moved. Well, I appreciate that Hilda, but right now only the full members- Oh, okay, that's a good one. I forgot. Yeah. So, John? Okay, moved. So it's, and we got, Sarah moved it. John seconded it. Did you, no? I'm an associate, I can't. You can't do it. Who, who did you second? Everald or yourself? Yeah, Everald, you have to do it. Move to adjourn. I, I, I moved to adjourn this meeting of the ZBA. There we go. And John seconded that. There's no debate on this motion. So it's a roll call vote. Chair votes aye. Mr. Gilbert. Aye. Mr. Henry. Aye. All right. Motion carries. We are adjourned. All right. And Sarah, you've been on so many panels. I just, by tradition, I said she must be the person to do that. I forget. I also like Hilda. I forget. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Good night everybody. Good night. Good night. Good night. She should be on there, but I don't want to go there. All right. Have a good night, guys.