 Okay, we're back at Oracle Open World. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE.com. We're inside theCUBE, where we are live in San Francisco, California for Oracle Open World 2011. We are inside theCUBE, our flagship telecast, where we go out to the top most important tech events and bring all the tech action, commentary, insight, opinions, entertainment to you and share that knowledge with the world, extracting the signal from the noise. And I'm joined with my co-host. I'm Dave Vellante of Wikibon.org and John, there certainly has been a lot of entertainment today, hasn't there? Been entertaining, so the morning breaking news was Mark Benioff's keynote was canceled and he had a gorilla marketing keynote called, I'm calling an un-keynote at the St. Regis. We were there covering it live. We got it right in the front row. We live streamed it in tandem to their stream, picture in picture. I got a one-on-one interview with Mark Benioff and Mark Benioff certainly no stranger to Swagger and he was swinging the Swagger big time this morning. Huge, huge turnout at the St. Regis. I mean, there was a revolution coming out for Mark Benioff who's a pioneer in the social area with SAS, with Salesforce.com and obviously the apprentice to Larry over the years now on his own, really, really sticking to Larry in his comments, Dave. So let's listen to Mark Benioff at his un-keynote where he was booted from Oracle Open World and he went out on his own to the streets. Back to Larry. We're gonna come right back to Larry. All right, so tell us about your keynote and why you're excited and you're gonna be not around tomorrow. So you're not doing the closet keynote tomorrow, are you? Yeah, I'm on my way to do a keynote right now actually in Ohio. So I had to recreate my keynote here at the A.V. restaurant at the St. Regis Hotel because Larry canceled my keynote. But we were able to quickly respond and change and we just did a great job. So your Facebook message is obviously home run. Facebook is huge, open source. They're creating real value for their customers with open source, big data, Hadoop, commodity servers. But they are a big Oracle customer. So like they print the paychecks probably on Oracle, right? They probably do some... They use Oracle's General Edger. Yeah, some basic stuff. It's like running orders. That's right. It's like really adding value to their business. Well, it's not delivering the $100 billion transactions that they're doing for their customers. And the point is that they're not using Exadata mainframes around Facebook. So the question is... They're using the files. So the question I have for you, do you think Facebook would be successful if they were running Oracle systems as their core technology? I don't know how you built Facebook on Exadata. Maybe Larry knows. Mark Benioff, Maverick. Congratulations, you got some major big hones. Thank you very much for finding us. Thank you for being here. Okay, you heard Mark Benioff there, any of you? Okay, so I got Mark on there. So great comment from Mark Benioff. He's here doing the rounds here. And let's see if I can't get the little background shot here. So he's continuing to talk to the crowd here. I see Facebook in my opinion would not be a real big business if Benioff didn't highlight that point in terms of the overall Facebook value proposition. And what he was highlighting is that General Ledger is just a perfunctory function for Facebook and that in no way would Facebook be a huge business if they used Exadata. So I think that's it guys. I'll be right back. I'm gonna walk over now to your place. I'll do some live footage before I walk out. All right, folks, that's John Furrier. He's live at the conference. You saw John had Mark Benioff on. Mark Benioff doing a sting. Give little photos with his hands. He's the bad boy of tech. Mark Benioff, the bad boy of tech. Live commentary from at Furrier. Broadcast live on siliconangle.tv. Covering all the angles. Now Furrier asked Benioff a question. Do you think Facebook runs Exadata? It was obviously tongue in cheek. And Benioff's response was I don't think so. I don't think they'd know how to do that. Maybe Larry knows how to do that. What social needs, obviously, can they bridge that social divide? And to me the social divide is about really being a time-waste around social versus real productivity. I don't think social is there yet. I think the trust and noise problem on social is a big issue. And so we're gonna get back down there and Google will address all this in depth on the cube on siliconangle.tv. All right, guys, see you later. Hi, John Furrier's out. That was John Furrier live from the press conference over at the St. Regis AME restaurant in San Francisco. As you no doubt know by now, Oracle canceled the Mark Benioff keynote this morning. They had a scramble, Salesforce had a scramble, move across the street. Mark Benioff would have spoken to tens of thousands of people this morning, but they moved across the street, spoke to about a hundred people. There was a line outside the restaurant he could not, they could not get in. But the publicity that Salesforce mark, Risen Hopkins that got out of this is huge. We've been covering this live. Many others have, I'm sure as well. Just you can't buy this kind of press, can you? No, absolutely not. And you know the thing that, substantively from his keynote there that struck out to me or that stuck out for me was the Facebook, incorporating the discussion on the open graph which I think would be new since his dream force keynote, right? Because that open graph was just announced a couple of weeks ago. I think it's interesting that he's presenting Salesforce. It's almost like a totally social company now. It's almost in that web 2.0 camp, almost completely divorced from enterprise other than the enterprise benefits of being such a social organization, a socially centric organization. So obviously messaging and positioning hasn't changed much for Salesforce but what has changed is the crowd he's pitching it to. I can't recall a time where he's come into an Oracle open world in the past and had executives from Facebook come on and talk with him. Well as we've seen social media is changing every part of society, politics, business, the economy. You're seeing the Arab Spring catalyzed in many regards by social media and I think it's a recognition that the traditional sales model, Salesforce.com started with CRM, what used to be known as Salesforce automation. Those terms are dead terms, they're old terms. Benyeff has always been an innovator, started the company in the height of the dot com boom and is now transforming and sees the social wave. He basically laid out that the next wave, he's called the next wave beyond mobile, beyond what Steve Jobs created as social with what Mark Zuckerberg is created and he wants to be a part of that. Basically think, Mark, about how sales is done, it's belly to belly, it's on the phone, it's through the reseller channels, Salesforce has automated a lot of that and essentially we're seeing the dawn of the age of social sales and Salesforce is going to be part of that, of course you're right. He's talking about much more than Salesforce automation, he's talking about automating social connections. Right, and that has, as we know from watching the whole web 2.0 social revolution, it's got hooks in PR, it's got hooks in marketing, it's got hooks into sales, community management, I mean just creating a social organization from the ground up out of your company, out of your business as innumerable benefits. Mark, we've been talking all this week about cloud, big data, obviously we cover social a lot, we haven't been talking a lot about social until today. You mentioned Facebook's Open Graph, new announcement a couple weeks ago, talk about what that is and how that relates to the cloud and big data specifically. Well I mean it's, Open Graph is actually a year old, what they did is they've expanded it a little bit in connection with a bunch of other announcements that Facebook announced in Mark Zuckerberg's keynote this year and it's opening up the presentation and changing the way applications will interface with Facebook users. So I'm sure we've all had like sheep thrown at us or been super poked and all these other kind of like weird almost annoying notifications that we get. It's like a denial of service attack with pokes. Yes, exactly. All right. So what they're doing is they're taking a lot of these application notifications and they're deprecating the importance of it. It's not going into your main feed like it used to. We've got almost like a secondary feed. If you notice if you log into Facebook now you've got this little constantly updating thing of what all your friends are doing and all parts of your life. Someone just listened to a song on Spotify. They just moved a chess piece or put down a word and scrabble or whatever it is that they're doing. These little mundane updates, it's still being chronicled and pushed to the users but in a deprecated way that doesn't completely obstruct social interaction and communication through the wall and the activity stream feeds. But it's essentially making a lot more data available. And that's how I guess it ties into the big data theme that we've been talking about here. Some really clever marketing that we saw at the event. NetApp had Billy Bean yesterday. John Furrier in his inimitable style covered that as well. Had Billy Bean on a social cam. Had Tom Georgins. Outstanding marketing. Here's a conference. Everybody's talking about the big data and Hadoop cloud meets big data. NetApp brought in Billy Bean for those of you who don't know he's the general manager of the Oakland A's. Billy Bean was a star athlete but never really made it big time in the big leagues. Became a general manager of the A's and really embraced analytics. And the challenge that he had was the Oakland A's have a tiny little payroll they can't compete with the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees and other major cities on a payroll basis. So he has only one way to compete and that's data. So he used data to find value. He developed with his team new statistics and used those to identify players that were as productive as the 20 million dollar a year types or maybe slightly less productive but cost maybe a million dollars a year and built a competitive franchise and year after year after year the Oakland A's have competed. Number of times they made the playoffs. They just missed getting the World Series a couple of times. And so a phenomenal story there and of course NetApp brings Billy Bean into Oracle Open World, good marketing, signing books. Also subject to the movie Moneyball, right? That's correct. The book was Moneyball and now the movie's coming out. Brad Pitt and Michael Lewis wrote the book. Same guy who wrote The Big Short and Liars Poker. So a fantastic book. If you have not read Moneyball and you like baseball it's a must read for any baseball fan. Okay, we're here live, siliconangle.com and Wikibon's continuous coverage of the Oracle Open World event here at Moscone. The big news today was the salesforce.com conference. Mark Benioff was basically his keynote today was canceled. He had a scramble move across the street. We covered it live. Some other news going on. Cisco, John Chambers had a keynote today. What else is happening, Mark? Well, I mean like the aftermath of the Apple thing. Actually, before we transition off of Benioff I wanted to ask you one question. John asked me while we were chatting back and forth and watching the keynote. How do you think that this is going to impact Larry Ellison? Because we're going to have Larry Ellison's keynote at least partially at the close of the show today. How much of it will be devoted to response to Benioff? How much do you think will continue the circus? I think that there is no question in my mind anyway and we'll see in a couple hours. Larry Ellison is going to have the last word. Of course. That's why Larry goes on at Wednesday. And so I find it hard to believe he, I can almost promise that in some way, shape or form he is going to address the criticisms that were laid on him today. And those criticisms include Oracle is all about the next generation mainframe. In Benioff's mind it's not the next great thing. He said Oracle is the false cloud. Basically depositioning Oracle as a company that is proprietary closed, lock in, undemocratic, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And Ellison is absolutely going to respond to that. I don't think he'll mention Benioff by name. He very well may mention Benioff by title as he did last year, but I have no doubt that Ellison will respond. He's one of the best in public speaking environments. He's smart, he's funny, he's clever. And I would expect that he's going to devote a fair amount of time to repositioning Oracle in the minds of the attendees here and those watching outside the show. So how do you think he'll do it? Will he refocus the messaging about Oracle? Will he maybe tie some social or some kind of hipper things into the messaging or will he just kind of reiterate what he said in the opening keynote but in a way that he did last year that kind of answers Benioff's allegations like being false cloud and whatnot? Ellison is one of these unique speakers who has the ability to get his message across which he's going to do. He's going to exa and mega us to death. But he has this unique ability through humor and sarcasm to make a point that puts himself on a pedestal and lowers the other guy. I think that's what he's going to do. He's incredibly clever. He's always done that. He's done it in the past with the likes of Bill Gates, this whole thin client thing. He did it last year with Benioff. He had the last word. He had the audience laughing. It's now famous and he had the upper hand at the end of the day. So I think that's how he's going to do it. John Furrier's in. Phenomenal job. I got a hats off. John Furrier. Good job. It was, no it was fantastic. The Benioff interview was great. John Furrier came in today. Gorillad is way in. There was a line outside the St. Regis restaurant. Of course, John Furrier got in, flashed the Silicon Angle logo and he was in. Oh, come on, come on in, John. He was there, Skyping. We had it covered. It was just fantastic. We're going to bring John Furrier in right now and get his take on that. We were just talking, John, about the event, within the event. What was the vibe like over there? Nice job, by the way. That was my lid sweating like a pig. I was in the front row. So, essentially, you saw the posters, right? So, you know, the Benioff. Benioff, too innovative for Oracle Open World. Essentially, it's the clash of the big egos. Mark Benioff's egos is huge. Larry Ellison. So, you heard from Michael Kringsman, who's a blogger, that apparently the notification that Salesforce got was simply an auto reply responder. One sentence email says, your keynote has been canceled. And then, they couldn't even reply back because it was one of those auto responders. You get an email. So, that set the whole stage. He went off on Twitter. SiliconAngle.com broke the news. Obviously, we had it on Twitter. Benioff then took my tweet, turned it into a live revolution tweet. I said, hey, we're going to come over and stream your meeting. It ended up becoming what I'm calling an un-keynote. Very similar to an unconference. So, and it's basically an un-keynote, a revolution keynote. We didn't want to call it underground keynote. But the vibe was amazing. They had people outside. It was classic textbook guerrilla marketing. I got an umbrella. They got people outside, looked like a political rally, holding up Mark Benioff signs. Salesforce.com. So, the full marketing machine of Salesforce went into action. Essentially, after the canceled keynote, they went in and said, we're going to go make this happen. Line around the corner. I went up there and they're like, sorry, you stand in line. I'm like, well, no, we'd like to just live stream it. And then that was just someone from Hill & Nolton, some PR firm. This guy didn't even know anything about tech. Hill & Nolton. I mean, I've heard of them before. They're apparently a big firm, but classic PR. This guy was clueless. And then I then was like, okay, I'm going to then do a social cam and tweet about it. And then one of the sales was like, no, no, you got to come in the front. Sales still can angle. You got to get up here. So essentially cut the line. Mercury News, Reuters, Wall Street Journal, all there. I'm in the front and we were streaming. You saw the guerrilla streaming, essentially Logitech's Mark. So Mark knows, are we going to do the Logitech's? You guys did a great job. Second 2009. You guys did a great job of carrying the live stream. And it was great. I mean, I thought Larry's rejection of Mark Benioff really came down to the fundamental fact that Benioff was going to upstage Larry and didn't want to have it. Now Larry's going to have the last word at 2.30. We'll be covering that live here, Dave. We'll do in our commentary on that. I can't wait to see the explosiveness from Larry Ellison from this keynote. Essentially Mark, essentially give him the bird, pull down his pants, shine on the moon, as they say in the tech business. So we'll see what Larry does. There's no doubt he's going to have the last word. You're absolutely right. Now he, Benioff apologized to Larry at the start of his talk. Did it come across as sincere? Well, he made a joke about his mother being there. And I just, you know, so his apology was not sincere. The apology was not sincere. He's like, oh, my mother's here. I want to apologize for my mother because she really wanted to see my keynote. And so, and I also want to apologize to Larry Ellison. So, you know, underhanded, you know, dig there. And he made the comment, next slide please. And oh, I have a clicker. And, you know, so, so, so it was all in good fun. Obviously they worked together. They, you know, Benioff was the apprentice. Larry, the master, way back when in Oracle, you know, the history is, as we know it, is sales, we went out and spun out Salesforce. Mark, a technical guy, a great marketer. I'll see the, but, but the core message was social. Social's changing the world. Social everything. You saw some of my tweets. I was trying to chime in some comments because the audio was down, but, but it was a great message. I felt that he might've blown the opportunity with the gorilla marketing, but he went into too much of sales pitch, the chatter demo, you know, the can keynote stuff. I think if he toned that down, it would have been an absolute home run grand slam. Right now it would give it a home run by itself, but it would have been a grand slam, Dave, if he just like cut out some of the sales BS that was in the chatter demo and, you know, hold on. I agree. I mean, frankly, when, when he went to some of that heavy demos, we can't, we cut back and, and, and summarized. We thought that was of more value to our audience. It was good. It was the Burberry, you know, it's good to get a little flavor for it, but it was, I felt too heavy handed too much. I would have liked to hear, heard more of the vision. It's good to have some proof points, but I thought it was a bit too much. Yeah, I mean, he had a lot of the canned keynote stuff integrated in us. He didn't have a lot of preparation to make it more gorilla, but I would have definitely doubled down on the Haruku message and the fact that developers can boot up apps in, in, in days, not weeks. That was a transformative message. He missed the boat on that. He kind of talked about it. The other thing that was getting a lot of Twitter negative was that there was a lot of Salesforce.com employees and cheerleaders doing the normal social media BS like, oh, we'd love Salesforce and kind of polluting the stream. So that was just some feedback from people on Twitter that I noticed was that it was getting noisy in the Twitter stream mainly because of too many pro Salesforce employees trying to push the Kool-Aid a little bit too much when it was already a home run. I felt that was a little bit underhanded and quite frankly, you know, just poor social media execution on Salesforce. Yeah, one of the comments you made, I mean, I think you were right about the Haruku message. I think that played very well. You made the comment on the, the feed through Skype that, you know, CNBC kind of really sort of an old media story. False media. Yeah, false media. If Oracle's false cloud, CNBC is false media. And Haruku obviously, if company founded in 2007 next-gen application platform and... Well, I mean, I thought there was a disconnect between CNBC as one of their examples. I mean, he's out there saying social's changing the world and all of a sudden, oh, CNBC. CNBC isn't really the poster child of social and any kind of new anything, the cube of anything. Here, what we're doing is the future. Certainly not CNBC. The cube is more future than CNBC. You heard it here first in 2011, when we bypassed them in a few years, Dave. No, but seriously, one of the employees of Salesforce, Kevin Marks, his Twitter handle is K Marks. He jumped on and jumped all over me, like a fly on, you know what? And said, oh no, no, that's not the message. And he's got a good point, although a little bit too heavy-handed to try to jam the Kool-Aid down my throat. But his point was, it wasn't a disconnect. Salesforce is trying to show that they're transforming CNBC to be new media. Okay, I buy that. I give him that. I'm not going to argue with that. I think that's- Yeah, and maybe CNBC, you know, like ESPN, is going to- But I'm not sure that's keynote worthy, personally. I don't think that would have been keynote worthy. A different message would have been highlight a developer who's knocked it out of the park and proof points around new examples of disruption, new examples of innovation, like what we see, what NetApp did yesterday with Moneyball. I mean, I thought that was really a clever example of taking something current and showing an example of big data. I didn't see that. I saw a lot of canned things. Again, the Heruco thing was positive, so. Yeah, I mean, the big updraft was the fact that the keynote got canceled. I mean, I think that Benioff said it today in the Wall Street Journal, or so the Wall Street Journal article said it is, they should thank them for canceling the keynote because you can't buy publicity like this. That's interesting, you're saying your guess that you had on, what's his name? Michael Krinsman. Michael Krinsman. He's saying about the email now. That conflicts with the report in the Wall Street Journal today that said essentially, and Benioff sort of confirmed this, that they moved, he said they moved his speech from 10.15 on Wednesday to six o'clock. He said six a.m. Thursday. I had read it was eight a.m., whatever. It doesn't really matter. You know, maybe Oracle doesn't want to give up the million dollars that they paid for the keynote, which has been reported as what they paid, so they move them onto, oh no, next day we're having a scheduling change. All that is all underhanded, and reported after the fact. I'm sure what happened was when this story started going viral, they had to look at angle.com, broke it, Clint Finley broke the story, and then picked up by all things D and everybody else, because it was on Twitter. When it got out of control, Oracle then issued a statement, oh no, no, we didn't cancel it, we just have to make the change of plan. So they made up an excuse. Because of overwhelming attendance, they said. The classic messaging. Yeah, I mean, so it was basically FU, Larry basically came down and said he's out. Essentially what happened folks is Mark Benioff was kicked out of the Oracle party, and that's just the way it is. And he was kicked out for basically retweeting and posting on Facebook, Kristen Nicole Story, and saying Larry set the bar really low. Yeah, I mean, he was aggressive, and he's a showman, and that's his goal. I think they shouldn't have canceled them, but then again, you don't want to be upstaged. Larry Ellison does not want to be upstaged by Mark Benioff in any way, so clearly they'll either give the million dollars back, or even more of a diss to Salesforce is to take the million, screw up their keynote, and then put them out on Thursday morning. John, he said Oracle Open World is all about the next generation mainframe computer. It's not, in his opinion, the next great thing. He wants to get away from proprietary hardware and software and move into the cloud. He's not here to sell more computers. He's here to create growth and to create jobs. I thought that was good messaging. Oh, it's great. You can smoke that peace pipe all day long. It's great messaging. But the reality is that there are some serious issues with social infrastructure that they're promoting, and that is the following. Social media, as we know it, is a time waster in most people's eyes, not a productivity gain. They're pushing the productivity gain. It might be a little bit too early, we'll see. I like the message. I think that's a good one. The other one is there's a lot of noise and a lot of trust issues on social media. I just don't see the enterprises rolling in and using social media to the point of making a killer productivity tool. Today, I think there's a lot of things that need to be developed, as I pointed out on Twitter. In my opinion, the algorithms and the relevance side of it really needs to be developed, and that's clearly going to be the case. So that's kind of my opinion. I think Salesforce is really early on this, as they say, wicked early in Massachusetts, and so it's good. I mean, they have the road, now they're going to retool. The other thing that I thought was compelling in his message was the Facebook positioning. Obviously they're putting the whole like button out there, which I think is a little bit over the top, but it makes the point. It resonates with the 800 million people who use Facebook, but his point is, Facebook's value proposition to their users and their revenue and their impact to society has nothing to do with Oracle, meaning Oracle runs General Ledger, and that is basically tech code for, they run irrelevant plumbing. Okay, they do accounting, that's important system, and it's like plumbing in a building. Yeah, it moves the water back and forth, but it's critical, but no one really thinks about it. You just pay for it, it's a utility done. It's not really innovative game changer. Well, but remember, it reminds me of your conversation with Dave Hitz, a NetApp founder and former CTO, and now just evangelist or whatever he does now. He does a lot of things, but he talked about plumbing, storage is plumbing, and you said cold, clear water, when the plumbing breaks, there's a problem, and the reason I'm bringing that up is, the dirty little secret is that Salesforce uses proprietary software to run its business. Okay, they don't talk about that that much. And they're a customer of Oracle's. We know that, we're in the valley, you were plugged in, right? We know what's going on there, but I guess the point is, so what? The new growth, the new jobs, the new innovation is not around running payroll, running finance and intro. Well, I think in the keynote from Benioff, or his un-keynote, was the fact that he showed that Heroku demo. I thought that of all the canned demos, that was the most powerful. The music was great, as Alex Williams on Twitter said, it's like Vikings going down the street, right, bro, and the music was good, but the message was good, literally. We want to get stuff up in days, application development, and that really is the reality of business. And I think that, as one of the things that I see happening that aligns with that message, is the real-time business, we talk about analytics, is going to be on the application side too. I think developers are going to have to be more real-time than ever before in the coming years, and that is going to be what Heroku points to, and that I don't want to do a lot of specking, I want just apps up and running. So that message was absolutely what they should have focused on more, and they really didn't. John, Benioff put up a chart showing the progression of all the great leaders, Ken Olson in the mini computer, and Bill Gates in PCs, and Sergey and Larry in Cloud, and then Jobs with Mobile, and then he put Zuckerberg up there with Facebook as the next big wave. What did you think of that? I think it's totally true. I mean, Facebook's undeniably force, huge growth. Zuckerberg, honestly, is who he is, and he's a young kid, and he's growing up and managing that company in the way he sees fit, which I love. I love the fact that he's still CEO of the company and has not given up control. You know how I feel about that, Dave? I feel founders should be in control of their companies all the way until they step down, and I think they should have the right to drive the ship into the iceberg or not, or if it's growing, stay and grow with the company until they feel they should step down. So I like how Zuckerberg is still the CEO, but absolutely the force of social graphs, open graph, the CIO talking is a real force. Obviously we rely on traffic from social channels and SiliconANGLE, Hibon, and theCUBE, so we cannot deny the fact that this is the future. I mean, there's no debate. That's the future. People are doing more social than they are actual old school search. Well, I'm just saying the trend is to move more towards social than old school search.