 Paul Castello welcome the executive director of the Vermont council on rural development We're so glad to have you here today here in zoom land. It's just a pleasure to see you. Thanks so much Thank you so much Lauren Glenn, you know, I'm a huge admirer of your work and it's an honor to be on the shelf Well, I feel the same way about you and the other day we were talking about The pandemic and this period and how heavy it all seems and you were talking in very optimistic terms And based on the work you're doing on the future of Vermont, so I thought we could dive into it a little bit. Well Probably not all your viewers know even who the Vermont council on rural development is we're a nonprofit charged by the federal farm bill We do community organizing all over the state. We build policy councils take to Bring attention and energy and direction to fundamental needs that communities face and About 12 years ago. We built the council on the future of Vermont Which was a a deep study and evaluation of what Vermonters thought was most fundamental to the future We asked thousands of people what they stood for What their hopes and points of vision for the future was and then What they thought were some fundamental priorities? You're sharing the future of Vermont website right now, which is at www future of Vermont dot org And that Is sort of a next phase of this process? It's a bit of a long story, but we've come out of COVID at VCR D having really transformed our work and We're trying to be useful in In answering some of the challenges of our time by bringing people together Listening and adding up what they they think is most fundamental for points of action for us as a society Over the next two or three years that will help us move forward for the next generation So this is work that's been going on for quite a while not just during this period Now we've been thinking about this idea of developing a proposition for the future of Vermont for about three years And and it it follows from the council on the future of Vermont and all the other policy councils that we framed over the last 20 years But it really says what do we need to do for action? And we're going to be building a set of action statements on that website are a series of Sort of straw people the ideas that we've heard so far so that people can reflect off those they can rewrite them in the survey We're interviewing groups all across the state right now to get perspective on those and Ultimately, we're we've got probably 200 pages of contributed ideas from Vermonters that we're going to be digesting to produce holistic But directional platform of action that we think is most fundamental right now for the future of Vermont Well, and given that you have been doing this work for a while. Are you hearing new ideas? Are you hearing new? ways forward We're hearing a lot of a lot of Creativity, you know people are really engaged right now in this conversation when you think of the setting where we've gone through a We're going through a national confrontation with that the historic Historic racism in this country the the divide that we have and the need for action and Reconciliation and the political divide that is is also there nationally and the fundamental Economic challenge that COVID has presented and that we need to think not just about recovering backward to something But recovering forward and renewing the economy in ways that prepare us to be successful for the next generation and all these things come together in the crucible of this moment where Probably this this moment is unparalleled in the last 50 years. It's it's a little bit like 1932 when you have a transformational moment of reform for the future of the country and We are you know one of the ways that we have experienced that is when When COVID struck we had lined up. We were going to be doing community organizing in Barry We were going to be going to Milton We're going to be working with Bradford and all of our work sort of fell apart and we we looked at what was actually going on and the People that were stepping up as volunteers in small towns all across the state Trying to figure out how to deliver food how to look at the human needs how to make sure that no one was isolated or Left left out that that we were developing masks and the whole nine yards of the work that people were doing locally But they were doing it without protocols And they didn't know what each other were doing like for opening up their downtown or having outdoor seating at the restaurants or Whatever and so we started bringing people together to share what they were doing and and learn from each other and also set protocols for safety and for managing and And that was really interesting and then we started bringing together Resource providers who are doing work statewide to help local groups and for them to think about how they respond and work as a team a little bit more Then the governor asked us to chair his Local solutions part of the task force that looked at sharing best practices statewide and looking particularly at issues affecting Historically marginalized people people of color people who? Immigrants to Vermont and others and so we we we learned and and and dug in to those conversations and ultimately had statewide zoom conversations with thousands of people to learn about what they were going through and We and everyone is leaning to what does recovery look like? What are the key features of recovery? What makes Vermont come out of this? You know, we're strong right now We're we're working strongly together. We're building unity to respond together What do we need to do when we come out of this for Vermont to recover? We don't want to go back to economic doldrums in small towns and and the Demographic challenges that we've struggled with over the last 20 years or so How do we look at the renewal of Vermont? And and how do we look at both our values and our principles and our culture and our economy together as we look at What we need to do to step up and be more successful as a as a place in that as a destination What strengths does Vermont and Vermonters bring to this conversation? What makes you optimistic that we actually can Change the course for the state It's a it's such a question. I could talk all day about that, you know, I'm not an optimist by nature or anything I think partly we have to Line up together around key directions and commit with courage to make a move, you know Like it's like addressing any problem You have to be optimistic that you can make a difference and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and you get enough people and enough collective energy and you can move mountains, but Some of the things that make me optimistic are The the rational way that we looked at science and answered COVID very effectively the fact that Vermonters When asked by the governor to wear masks or when asked by the governor to take six feet, you know That's a step-by-step. We did it and we didn't do it because we were ordered to do it We did it because we're good citizens and we care about our neighbors and we have a sense of respect and civic consciousness That may be not as strong in some places. So that's an incredible asset And because of that, you know people outside of Vermont noticed Vermont and some of them thought of Vermont as a haven, right? So we've had some people move in there's challenges with that, but there's also an opportunity to to Engage those people in the future of Vermont as as partners as entrepreneurs as investors But another thing that that's that Vermont has is, you know, we we both Have this deep sense of community But we also have like being the second most rural place in the United States We're not like Jackson Hole, Wyoming with the Grand Teton in front of us You know, like this huge tower of a beautiful place instead. We're like Embedded in nature and we have direct access. So many Vermonters can step out their door to either get on their bike or or go out for a hunt or Get on their snowmobile or for skis and participate in the natural environment and I think that's something that people are Nationally really hungry for especially in in this COVID period I Think we're also a safe place and we're also a place that's small enough that you know with 630,000 people we can try things and model things just as we did with civil unions and as as we've done with some of the energy policy that that that's out there the model of distributed generation and others that we can model these things and Getting there Like it's like getting to the last mile of the broadband network. That's necessary, right? It's necessary for everyone to be able to participate as equals in modern society and have telehealth and have Opportunity for your kids to participate in distance lying all that says We're small enough That we actually can get that kind of thing done if we set it as a core priority as a people and as it and with our Government and with our federal delegation It's not insurmountable And so if we think together in a coherent way about some of our core priorities We we have a huge opportunity to get them done Yeah, and I'm sorry to go on but you know the other thing that we see is we go into communities all the time to Craftsbury or Wilmington or or Bennington and you look at what what happens at the desk of a select board where They have 20 problems that people are presenting them everything from the fire department to the culverts and all and so on and it all kind of piles up and and The towns that are successful Are the towns that engage together to say well, we can't solve everything at once What are the two or three things that if we try to do together? We become a collective spear point of activity. We drive together We build momentum we get those things done and then we go on to others and towns that do that build this momentum and energy and And they also have a sense of progress towns that don't do that and get paralyzed often feel like the glasses have Empty and you know, we we're not going to get it done and And that Perpetuates itself. It's paralyzing. So setting direction having a sense of mutual like putting muscle to the wheel together Has a huge impact and so we see that all the time and we we kind of say why not why not Vermont? Why can't the state? Why can't we think this way together? And we do this without any prejudice to say, you know We admire the governor and the good work the administration are doing we we we aren't interested in Republican democratic politics in this we just think that there are things that most Vermonters would rally to and That if they were prioritized and people lined up around them, we could Have substantial change like in this moment. We're right. It's a time to seize the challenge and build substantial change One of your more recent initiatives is the Vermont community leadership network Sounds to me like a necessary kind of infrastructure in order to realize These goals that you've described and to to actualize the strengths of the people in the state And I remember talking with you a few years ago and you said and I'm paraphrasing but When it comes to leadership development the issue is not so much the people who are the leaders It's the people that have not had the opportunity or don't have that what they need in Their communities to lead effectively So is that who the leadership network is for me to talk about this as a tool for achieving these goals? Well, it's such a great question. You know when we're in a small town We you don't go in and think you know better than the people in that town. What's good for them that fails You have to respect that nothing happens without local leadership. No one's coming from Washington, DC that can tell Bethel what what its vision should be for the future or what their economy is going to be No one from Montpelier can do it for you You have to set your own direction and the towns that set direction become the squeaky wheel that gets the grease from the state in the feds They get the technical assistance. They get the grants They they know where they're going and people want to support them and towns that don't do that don't So it's all about local leadership when it comes down to it It's all about people stepping up and democracy is a participation sport. It's not something you vote once and you're done it's about the way we live together and make things happen and so I'm missing some of your your question though Lauren Glenn because you wanted to know I What I want to know is really more about the leadership network and what it offers to people in communities and especially the people that are not Haven't been raised To be yeah, right, right. I mean there's people in every community who step up to help out to build a children's playground or to To set up an economic development committee and they're not elected. They're unauthorized They're just folks that are stepping up for the good of their community when we go into a community we help those kinds of things gestate and turn into past forces of working people forces of good and And you know, we've done we've we've brought together Thousands and thousands of people we've started three or four hundred different initiatives in small towns And we look at the people who come to chair those processes as real seeds to the future often their next generation people and They may run for the select board a few years out They may run for the legislature, but they start out doing some good project in their community and In COVID you see how important that is, but we've known it for a long time We actually looked at the history of our community processes and we said what are the core ones that have been That have happened more and over and over again building an ag network opening a daycare center What are some of the steps people need to go through when they're doing those? So we begin to gather that and then what are some of the skills? How do you write your first budget? How do you? How do you? Manage a good meeting. How do you and so we put together a community leadership guide? That's a hundred and forty pages of of pretty dense It's it's not an idiot's guide, but it's a basic clear set of definitions on how to move forward and Then we're bringing together people who are doing that kind of work all across the state into a network And I believe there's about 450 people in the community leadership network now John Copans is managing that project and They get together every two weeks and they talk about You know, how do we deal with diversity equity and inclusion issues in our community or how do I look to? raise funds for a small project and so there's a roving series of Agendas no one has to come to every meeting and you get people coming and going but there are also sort of like Networking lunches and networking connection meetings where people can connect to different resource experts on different topics and it's really Based on the principle that no one knows, you know, there's no one person who's the expert on Community and economic development. We all learn from each other Let's let's connect. Let's support each other in our work. Let's learn from those who've already done different projects and so So we're trying to support the people that we serve that way and We don't know where it goes five years out, but we're finding out there's a great Hunger for that kind of support for people who want to move forward right now You know Paul some of the issues that you've described facing the state, you know broadband deployment energy independence, you know these These are I would say fairly straightforward when compared to the question of racial equity and The hundreds of years really that have led to this disparity between blacks browns and whites And I wonder do you do you feel hopeful about our ability to Create a truly inclusive community and to in effect Heal what I would call, you know the cancer of racism in Vermont Yeah, I I'm optimistic that we can make a lot of progress and I think that I Don't know if even if in the 60s we all were confronting this as as deeply as we are right now I think It's hard to imagine someone's heart not being moved by this moment, you know, it's dramatic It's just dramatic and Um and in Vermont, you know, we're working with rural communities that Don't have a lot of experience with these issues some of them Don't Haven't confronted racism directly, you know, haven't haven't had the conversation in some communities and we're seeing those conversations right now But you know, one of the challenges that we think is really fundamental to this is a big Cultural question of of who who is a Vermonner? How do we define that? And I think we have unconscious sort of Ways of looking at the world like you the whole the whole newcomer flatlander Old-time Vermonner thing like you go and you ask someone about you know, where are you from or what part of town are you from or whatever and You know, someone might say well, I'm eighth generation on the land here and you know, my family's farmed here for 12 generations and stuff and So for some people that that question is a question that leads you to a point of pride But when you we're hearing from our friends of color that when when you say something like that, you may be saying Words that that say to them You don't look like us boy, you don't look like you belong here why are you here and and it may be without intention, but it it's that's what it that's how it is, you know and part of our our pride in Vermont, you know, we have this sense of exceptionalism and This is complicated because that exceptionalism and that pride can be Could contribute to a sense of superiority and and we have to be really careful with it When we think about energy and we think about civil unions and we think about Some of the areas of innovation where Vermont can be exceptional and should mark the way Racial relationships should be one of those things too but part of it has to do it and going back a little bit to that sense of identity and How we recognize each other in people who move here as Vermonters day one how we recognize the contributions and the enrichment that we have when you think about the fundamental economic problems that Vermont has and especially rural Vermont with with the loss of youth and demographic challenges we our economic and cultural future depends upon our ability to welcome recognize and embrace Multiculturalism and people of color as residents of our communities. It's it's the American nation, you know, we're in a shift and Vermont Will benefit from that shift we have to think of it as a as like You know, there's policy. There's anti-racism policies. There's there's Economic policies that are going to be important including reparations and including looking at equity gaps From an economic part point of view But there's also how do we recognize and welcome people and I think we need to have a big conversation around that as a state we have to We have to learn to welcome people in in all aspects of the Vermont experience for Vermont to be successful in and also to be a fair just a balanced place in the future Thank you. I I just want to wrap up our talk with Again, you know when we were talking the other day, I was saying to you I I actually feel like this pandemic is going to cast a long shadow on the next Generation the next 20 years might the rest of my life probably And it it it feels heavy and it feels like Yeah, it just feels heavy and a little foreboding and But you really have a different point of view on that and I thought you could just say a little bit more about why you think We're at a transformative moment. I Think it because we have to make it so it's like we we We as a society question everything We also are in a spin cycle with the internet that makes us constantly look for the worst in things and but with media in general and we We have to We can't lose faith in each other. We can't lose faith in common goodness or democracy If we do then we are just accepting defeat and accepting defeat isn't an option It's in the face of racism in the face of economic of of The necessity to have economic opportunity for all for monitors for all Americans we don't have the choice of of giving up and so the up the the thing that is The alternative is to recognize this moment and the crisis the compounding crises that we face and the you know the fact that science has allowed us to be relatively successful in meeting the covert crisis Also science predicts the cascading Catastrophic impacts of climate change that are already here and that are predicted to grow much worse Like in the face of knowledge and reason we can't step back We also be because we know better and we have to step up together on what we know and on what we stand for at this period in our history because you you must seize the day and In a crisis like we've gone through which has shaken us morally has has shaken up our lifestyles has shaken up our relationships It's the opportunity for growth It's the opportunity for renewal I'm I'm confident that when we're through this next summer and the restaurants open up And people are out on the streets and get to hug each other. We're gonna feel a lot better our Economic prospect of how do we become more creative? How do we become more creative in a zero-carbon environment? You know forward and and Chevrolet these guys are wrestling with us we're gonna wrestle with it on the ground and We're gonna wrestle with it creatively because we have to and we have to get it right and we're gonna see Major progress because the more we think about it together as a people the more we're gonna see the absolute necessity of us working forward with this in democracy and the forces that are against progress or Our around selfishness and you know looking backward I Can't we can't We can't be defeated by those forces and Condemning them isn't enough building the alternative work for our communities in our economy is It's like we are tested in COVID not just in Our stamina, but also in our commitment to each other and to democracy and It's our job to step up But you know so you hear this conversation around patriotism and people who feel like patriotism is the word of these people somehow we can't give up on words like justice and commitment and and and Mutuality We're called upon in our time And we're we're fortunate to have community leaders and organizations like the Vermont Council on Rural Development who serve this intermediary purpose and work with government and local communities and local nonprofits and all of us to build a better Vermont and You deserve enormous credit for that. I know Paul you will say it's the work of many many people and it certainly is And we're very fortunate to have you leading Some a big part of this work in our state. So thank you very much Well, thank you Lauren Glenn right back at you. I appreciate what you do and what you stand for so thanks for having me on Thanks a lot. We've been talking with Paul Costello. He's the executive director of the Vermont Council on Rural Development Involved in many interesting and important projects including the future of Vermont and you can participate in that We'll put up some information so you can participate. Thanks for watching