 Okay, let's get started then. So welcome to our latest Taiwan Indigenous Studies lecture. This is a project that we've been doing, that we're going to be doing for this year and next year. The aim of these lectures is to look at topics related to contemporary issues related to Taiwan's Indigenous people. So quite different from our previous focus on quite historical issues. The project is sponsored by the Shunni Museum, which is the museum that focuses on Taiwan's Indigenous people, that's opposite the National Palace Museum. And today I'm delighted to welcome back Joyce Yeh, who is at the National Dong Hua University's Department of Ethnic and Cultural Relations. But I say welcome back because she was last at SOAS in 1999 when she was a first year PhD student. She did her PhD in Sociology at Lancaster University. But somehow we've never managed to bring her to SOAS. So I should thank Jiayun for a certain degree for the invitation and persuading her to come here. She'll be giving two talks. Tomorrow's talk will be at the same time as 3 o'clock, but in the Brunei Gallery. We'll confirm the exact location. I think it's in B204. So on that note, let's give George a very big SOAS welcome. Welcome in and it's great to see it's really my great honor to be here to share what I've been doing since 2004 when I back to Taiwan. So today, actually, I think we changed the time because we want to ship, otherwise people will watch football. And I hope after the talk I let you feel who is much more important than football. So thanks for coming and my talk is learning to form and cook participatory action research on edible heritage. So I'm not going to tell you about what is participatory action research, but I'm going to share with you what I've been doing and how I do it and what I've been doing. So it's also a contemporary issue about I think food is everyday life. And how is the everyday life related to identity? That's what I'm going to focus tomorrow. But today I'm going to start with a little bit about my personal because it's probably very me. So I'm going to start with this. So my standing point, who am I? So as a Taiwanese single woman and Han Chinese father and a Taiwanese mother. And so in Taiwan we call this sweet potato and tau. Half Taiwanese, half Chinese, so all Han Chinese, so I'm kind of missed. All this cultural identity actually lead to me interesting in learning English literature. So my PhD actually is on a Chinese American woman, her name is Matthew Hong Kingston. And her research is about how these two cultural myths survive as one person because she was born in America as a Chinese. People think she's Chinese, but she thought she's American. And all this breaks silence and how she used writing becomes such an identity. So all this kind of breaking silence, so that's my MS thesis. And after I got my master degree I taught English for eight years. So during that eight years I had four months pay holiday. So that's why I travel around the world to learn English. To make a better English speaker. So at that time most of my identity is more like a Western culture. So that is, and then after that eight years traveling about 40 something countries backpacking by myself. And I want to get a more intellectual level. And I found a book called Tourist Gates that's written by John Erie. So I wrote him a long email and said, oh this book, I found this book in the library and I know nothing about you but I think what you write about is really related to what I want to do. So and then he just applied to me. Applied, interesting applied and put me in contact with secretary. And that's how I end up doing a PhD in sociology. I sometimes say sociology of tourism. So my title is Journey to the West. And if you know about the Chinese literature, you know this is praying words, C-O-G. But this west, what I mean the west. And so traveling, learning and consuming Englishness. And for a Taiwanese who research on Englishness. So there's also interesting kind of culture. So I call this reverse orientalism. So that's my PhD about. So it's nothing to do with indigenous studies. It's nothing to do with what I've been doing. But when I do this research, a lot of Taiwanese young students come to this country in order to learn the culture, the language. But what they do is they're complaining about food. It's horrible. English people are cold. So but I want to learn about the cultures here. So for me, this is kind of journey. It's also for me to rethink when we talk about authentic culture. When we talk about English culture, what does that mean? Then when we talk about west, from where? What is the point of view? We talk about west and east. So already thinking about this post-Colonial concept. But then when I back to Taiwan, I applied. So I got a job in 2004 and I teach in this ethnic relations and cultures. At that time, that's called indigenous cultures. And that's the only school I applied. University I applied. And I taught since then. So it's been 14 years. And I remember when I back to Taiwan, it seems like I completed doing another PhD called indigenous studies. So that's how. And then 2012, my life, I built a place called Breathing Life in the east coast. So now we're likely to continue what I'm doing besides as academia. And now I live with 32 chickens and two geese. So that's me where I stand. And this is the story I'm going to share with you today. Participant action research to me actually is, you're not only seeing the problem, it's really what we do about the research. So my action is about what we, are we really what we eat or what we form or what we do. So it's like a field work. Amanda Kofi in her book, Writing Ethnography, Writing. So field work is a personal emotional and identity work. And if I change that field work into research, especially for qualitative research, it's really about your own identity, what you're interested, what you're concerned about. So this is a starting point. And this is where I, when I started teaching a lot of full related courses, I went to learn how to cook. So this is also my field work, to walk in the kitchen with the indigenous chef. So this is part of my action research, how I do. And I also brought, later you will see, I also brought this kind of indigenous chef to the university campus to be a teacher. So they can share their knowledge with the university students. And this is my home. People have to pay for me to walk and fun with me. I'll tell you more about all these working holidays. So probably not many professors on university will bring your Wellington boots to go to university. So I want to put, because sometimes I talk, I kind of sidetrack. So this is actually my conclusion about all this kind of talk and also framework about food. Okay, why it matters. Okay, and also here. So it's actually for indigenous people, you probably, if I ask people even you've been to Taiwan, if I ask you, what is indigenous food in Taiwan? What will you come up with? Since you have a Taiwanese wife. Yeah. Yeah, I really don't know. Now we have what? Macau. Macau, yeah, okay. Macau is a mountain paper. Yeah, macau. What else? We have other Taiwanese. Yes. And I met a friend from Amis. Amis? Yes. She'll be... Thank you. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. But like in really small flights. It's like little plans. Yeah, like little plans. But with just like one side. And so... Because she's talking in Amis. Do you remember the... It's okay, it's okay. Laura has been to Taiwan one year, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's okay. But we have a couple of people who might be there. And then we do have an indigenous... Beyond his funeral tribe. He's almost got his PhD. Yeah. So what would be your answer then? Another guess I brought myself. Chinabu. Chinabu? Yes. I'll show you later what does Chinabu look like. And also actually, I wish I could share some of the food with you. But of course, the law is not allowed. But I do have some... This is another thing. It's supposed to be like for indigenous people that stuck the sticky rice inside it. And steam it. Okay. So for those people who later ask questions, you can get one of this as a token of souvenir. And I will show you this. For that, they use this for nature, the plant. And they start with the rice and steam it and bring it to the mountain. And then when they finish, they just put that and become part of nature again. So this is their ecology knowledge. So it's then shown for... I will tell you more about what is indigenous food. And you can tell. It's very hard for people to say something about indigenous food. And I'll tell you, we have 16 recognized tribes. And still, so far, people are still hard to say something about what they know about Taiwanese indigenous food. And this is part of my research. We made this invisible culture to more white visible. Okay. So it's actually indigenous festival and traditional main food of everyday life. For when they have festival, for example, there are certain food like millet. The millet or the millet wine and a certain food, they will be offered during the festival time. And of course, it's... They are traditional main food and now they are already because of the rice. They all change that. And the ways of social communication and cultural healing. In Taiwan, when we have that huge disaster, and then people, you know, the food give them sense when they eat it, this is their food. And they feel kind of connection with their own past. And ways of social exchange is more traditional self-community than ethnicity. Even we said there's a mainstream fast food culture and they still remain about their certain special food tradition and that's part of them to say who they are. Okay. And the food, of course, related to the land... And you know, land issue is always the main issue for indigenous people. Not only in Taiwan, but also in the war, too. And also, there are people of lifestyle and this traditional ecology knowledge. I call it... Not everybody in the TEK, but traditional ecology knowledge because from that, we know how their relationship with nature, how their relationship with environment and how they position themselves with this food chain, the system. And of course, according to Apo Durai, there's also collective representation of ethnic landscape. So this landscape, full scale, this is how I want to bring more people back to the farm, back to the land from campus to community. Okay. Yeah. So... And there's two important books actually help me to come up with this concept about edible heritage. So I invented this term and I need more theoretical idea to talk about... Because when people talk about heritage, they talk about tangible and intangible heritage. They use UNESCO definition. But so far, not people talk about edible heritage. That's a part of our everyday life. So this kind of edible... These two books, actually... But these two books are all cases studies. It's all different cultures and because you see the edible... This is all come from conference and they combine with the book. So I use this kind of edible identities and heritage cuisine become this concept about edible heritage. And I hope maybe later when we have a Q&A session you can give me more feedback help me to think about how make more theoretical. And of course, all these cases, again, there's only one... There's two books, about 28 chapters in total. Only one chapter talking about Japanese food tradition. Nothing we like to Asian food culture. But we know Asia is the major food culture in terms of food heritage. But it seems nothing there not to mention about Taiwan or Taiwanese indigenous food culture. So how many people can recognize in this part? Yes, you got one present. Yes, it's millet. And this millet, actually, for some people think it's a bird food. It's for birds. But for Taiwanese indigenous people it's their traditional man food. And they make this especially in the festival, all kinds of festivals, they use millet. And beyond, say, about Chinavu, they have to use millet. They pound it inside and steam it. And you can cover it with another plant's leaf and steam it. And it's come out from... so land, food and land justice. And also related to how they look at the food. For example, Poonong tribe. All the festivals related to when to plant the millet, the seeds. And when to transparent the plant. And when to harvest. And when to put the seeds, to save the seeds. All that related to you. And also it's related to their language and their culture. And if people don't plant millet they lose all this. So it's also significant for them. And I use that for my students including Indigenous students and non-Indigenous students to learn through all these festivals. So I show you more. And so we create something on campus. So I want this to show that in Chinese. So people will know my research partner. So we don't buy university where I teach. And then also the millet farm I have to say proudly to say millet farm is all initiated by students themselves. Like me. I'm just the one who work with them and support them behind. The students say we want to grow millet on campus. What do we do? We need to apply the piece of land. And luckily Donghua University is the second biggest campus in Taiwan. So when we're going to have a new president and it's very political that moment students apply and we got it. So we got the piece of land on campus. And after this I also have my FAFTS team. I tell you more about what this FAFTS team means. And then also from university I also work with Chengri Elementary School. So since 2013 we work together and the project still continues with or without project funding. I'm still doing that. And then also since 2012 and this has become part of Indigenous College features. And also the civil, the Amis. So now I want to, and there's a team called Mi Ba Li. Mi Ba Li for Amis language is sharing labor and it's share cultures. And then a concept to make a team which can promote their Indigenous community, Indigenous culture and also doing some tourism promotion. So, yeah, back. How many? I think I already said. Taiwan has 16 recognized tribes. You can see here. And Donghua is located here and the elementary school is about 60 kilometers. So actually I'm learning my Amis language with all these student elementary kids. Every Monday I go there and I also participate with them. And I just passed my beginning level and I'm going to do the advanced level at the end of this year. So we have 16 tribes, yeah? And so before you see the nine tribes it's not anymore, we have 16 and I'm sure we will have, we still have more but the government will recognize more. I think the plain tribe in Puchu will be recognized very soon. So this is to give you the map of Taiwan. You can travel from those to South in one day even return trip because we have high speed train. But not in the East Coast. Yeah, here. So this is welcome to Donghua. So this is the land we cultivate and this is our students and you see the mountain. They've been recognized Taiwan. Some people vote the most beautiful campers in Taiwan which I don't agree but because of this to me it's because of this landscape. So this is a piece of land and so the student was trying to reclaim the millet because you need to make them have some space so they can grow well. And here. So here, everything we made by ourselves, by hand and all these students are initially by themselves and later I combine with my class together but still here. So participation research for me is way so knowing, especially for students and also for me as a non-indigenous people is also a way to decolonizing so-called Western mainstream knowledge and putting the indigenous knowledge back to them everyday life. And it's also their identity performance. We also teach the hunting culture but in Taiwan people know actually hunting is still against the law but that's one of the things that practice their way of living and we brought that back to campus. So they are not knowing from the books the written words they're learning that by doing and who taught not me because I don't know about this. So I brought the indigenous elder to the campus and we also give them a certificate as an honorable Ph.D. Miller farm lecturer so they are happy. Normally they wouldn't be able to come to university to share our knowledge but we do that and it's also like uncovering the indigenous knowledge territory, sovereignty for sovereignty or the indigenous sovereignty subjectivity is very important to me. It's actually when I told 2004 when I was back I really know nothing not much about indigenous but for me my knowledge is from when I was in university I was in a we call mountain service I got the knowledge from that so I kind of romanticize about indigenous people or think they are poor so they need me to help them to serve. So this is more of Han Taiwanese people the concept about indigenous people but when I back to teach the more I teach the more I know nothing and I need to learn so for me it's another Ph.D. or another and then I learn from my go to indigenous community and do a lot of your work and a lot of talking with elder people to get myself knowledge so I can stand here and share my knowledge with my students yeah so for the middle form then we have this so we also do field work during the winter break we also have farming and workshop we know nothing about even myself I know nothing about how to farm and how to grow millet so again we do the field work and we come and practice so we learn by doing and all this different festival I'm student doing community service that stay with community to learn all this knowledge and then bring back to campus also it's kind of intercultural interaction and learning from each other and so this is kind of a circle a learning circle and then see does anybody know this it's very popular now very healthy food yes, Juliet you're right you got another present yeah it's we call Taiwan Famosa Hong Li but Hong Li now because there's some orange color so now people like to use Taiwan Li rather than Hong Li because there's some orange and the red orange between there's different four colors so here and this is our harvest and you can tell this is the cultural teachers this is Sakilaya and for Sakilaya for them they lost their language and they bring this back so they bring their culture back because of that and this is Boonong tribe and this is student and imagine when they wear this tribe their traditional clothes and with this and that never happened on campus in 2012 and then we have first harvest and it's become quite news on some of indigenous media you know and then also because my background is tourism so I also when you say and how do you manage to have this funding so I organize walking holiday people have to pay and walk with us yeah I have to pay so this walking knowledge yeah see walking holiday and then come and help us this is saying please come to Donghua middle farm and walk and labor with learning and labor with us together so they pay for us to work with us and then we build this house yeah I'll show you more see here we build so I build my own classroom because I don't like the traditional classroom because we extended the kitchen too and that's all so here are the students we all learn this kind of handmade by hand and then walk with the elder because none of us know how to build a house so we invite the elder and come and help us you can if you have any questions you can stop me because I think we are quite laid back I write the interaction way and if you feel sleepy ask questions because after lunch this is supposed to be good sitting outside enjoy the sun yeah so for me this kind of open space is also alternative mode of education and that is also as a teacher for me is to change the way students learn you know now most of the students only use hand to talk computer to use their phone they don't know this they don't know how to build a house they don't know how to grow their own food so this is also my my as an educator how I want to achieve and it's not only here it's all from this made by yourself and also bring your relationship with the land with the nature people start to think who really and then that comes back with the whole global this slow food movement so yes see you can tell this is Buono Troi elder comment show us about how the important for hunting culture and by their narratives their stories students will know why we want this kind of hunting culture to be legitimized and there will be our supporter ok so and this is our harvest we pass up we don't use this for business we use that to share the seeds for people to grow more millet ok this is what I say the summer camp a winter camp yes so this is kind of intergent different elder we also have students parents come and help help us and we have international students come and join us and we have some indigenous students which one isn't it this now that's his team now he's doing a PhD in our environmental college indigenous student and so for them very few so I wear my Chinese curly hats to university to teach yes and he's really good he use and this is our cultural translator because my Buono language is not good enough to be translated he can speak some Mandarin Chinese but he use Buono language one of the indigenous language and then she can change that for us so indigenous form is Donghua and in 2012 if you remember there's also an occupied movement so student think or I think it's also an occupied movement at Donghua University and also for them it's a cultural practice of their lifestyle and it's also where being and doing this is culture for me is a life and culture if it was a traditional life knowledge it's not in a museum it's in your everyday life and pass on and for me that's traditional culture and this is culture heritage heritage and this is also proud to be who they are and they can tell people about even how one is you can be a cultural mediator to introduce about the culture you know to other people so if you come to Donghua University come and take a picture being there, taking pictures in this cultural landscape and of course for all this combined with tangible and tangible heritage culture and it's also an intercultural platform and of course inter generation learning sites yeah so so far so this is what we're doing on campus, any questions? so what course are the students taking? okay yeah so later I create a course called food, culture and society and it's a general education Tongshi so in Tongshi that means it's general course so all the department students can sign in the course and that's my purpose because I don't want the indigenous knowledge only learned by indigenous students I want more Taiwanese students to know about Taiwanese indigenous culture because that's part of Taiwaneseness any guess? I just want to know who are the students yeah so and I also have my own I have also ethnic and culture and that's selective course in my department yeah and I want to create more so more students can come and my course is also open to the public so we have some the public people will come and join and join us yes because the kids talk about the course the parents were very interesting so can we come? sure I want them to come so you will see like I have others so this is growing things learn to form and then the other part is learn to cook yeah and that's more exciting too so then it's a middle form still student center they initiate their events so for that food and culture sustainability actually it's not food and tourism studies but then I thought if I want to do something I don't want studies okay so then and then the more I do food and tourism then we like to agriculture because I started to think about where the food comes from yeah and then so how do people grow food it's become part of my major concern and then so this kind of nature this is organic I call environmental friendly growing I don't use organic because you need to certificate you can call organic but for natural ways of growing food yeah that's what we promote yeah so now it's become food agriculture tourism sustainability yeah and all this is my it's kind of gradual activism and it's a university and community partnership work together and then so all this and then I don't know whether I think in England especially Oliver you know I wish he can come to Taiwan and then to cook with our indigenous we have a university letter and they can cook together and promote the food so we have Shi Nong Jiao Yu in Taiwan so equity food education yeah and it's now very popular and I think they're going to become required and I don't like that idea everything become required is horrible because the teacher probably know nothing but they have to teach so they hate this and they will end up all the kids who will hate that courses too so I don't know and then I promote this kind of responsible travel and then tourism concern and then this yeah and here I have to say ecotourism doesn't mean ecotourism a lot of ecotourists will become ecotourists yeah because everything is self-centered and I think that in tourism there's always have this different hierarchy about you tourist or you traveler and we are better the backpacker is better than all these mass tourists yeah but for me we all damn tourists anyway yeah and then we all want to take picture we all want to buy souvenirs we all want to get the most of things but we want to pay less yeah so this also respond how can we travel in a responsible way yeah so this is also how and I'm very happy for me I also teach some reluctant tourism courses and my student for this at the end one have a project how can we travel to make this group better yeah and so they will come up with a lot of idea you can every time you go to a beach you take 20 keros garbage away with you so to clean the beach so they come up with some ideas and they want to do that every semester so not only the project finish they want to do that every semester and when they finish their university they'll be doing become the expert and they can continue organize wherever they work so I'm happy that kind of things happening they become not just like okay it's the end of this class end of this term they will continue practicing and doing and become part of their life which I think knowledge the function for knowledge yeah so this also this farm to table from from farm to table this also encourage people to grow the food and then all to know where your food come from or this farmer's market and I have to say actually farmer's market when I study in Lancaster I already that's my first first counter with I think every Wednesday right or whatever and there's a farmer's market that you can talk really they will tell you about all this organic food and how they different apples it's not only the supermarket you see oh yeah they have different varieties of apples yeah so this is facts and facts are still if I work with my student who also interested in food and tourism but this is this is this is as a researcher as an educator I combine with my patients about food and tourism and that's part of my participant action research yeah my two old friends are here they all know I have patients about food remember I have an eating club yeah when I was writing my thesis one of my therapy is to have an eating club and we can cook together and then so we can share the industry reduce that so I I never know I can continue to have this kind of teaching or lifestyle I think as I say we are all what we do so you really pick up the thing and then I will combine so I also encourage you here we have student and PhD students do what interest you and really you care about and I will lead you to something which you enjoy doing and become so successful I don't know how successful but I'm happy and not many academia happy now I'm happy to elaborate a bit on food sovereignty yes food sovereignty yes food sovereignty yes in terms of food issues for indigenous people food sovereignty is their food right and their right to grow the food because for now with globalization everybody want a cheaper apple to other countries and so this is a little bit complicated about the issue but if we simplify these people's right about food what they can eat what they can eat, what they can grow yes they are on the land if they lose their land they don't have the place to grow their food in Taiwan I don't know how much you know about the government take a well allowed indigenous people's land so oh they don't allow they become a national park a national park you can't hunt you can't grow anything but pick up like wild vegetable wild mushroom or hunt hunt the animals for the festival it's part of their life and you can't do it so they don't have their rights and food sovereignty is actually to bring that back to them do they detect the land do they taxation for the land tax the land you know when you've got a piece of land you pay to own that yeah it's not just tax the problem they lose the land that's the problem that's why you've got to come back to the point where you say because they're indigenous and it's important to the country make sure the politicians do not put a land tax on those land rounds the area you know the problem is they already lost land so you can bring it back but that's the problem because the government wouldn't allow them to bring the land back no because slowly if you have got enough power or publicity to say this is our heritage now that's where you go that way and get enough and you nestle in all that people to put pressure yes let me tell you a story we still have indigenous people camping outside the presidential building in order to take their traditional territory back and it's because government doesn't listen to them even our president apologizes to indigenous people but the policy never bring the land back to indigenous people believing that it will come back what you do is go on YouTube when you make it international yes that's what happens if you say you're fighting you don't, what you decree is what you get back so be powerful and say it will happen yes that's quite an encouragement yeah we don't lose the faith but I have to tell you it's a long struggle everything looks like it's a long struggle just believe that I believe that's why because when you use the words that it's hard don't use those words thinking positively it's a quick question because I was ignorant of the history so when they took away the land did they relocate the tribes just to do elsewhere and use your kind of plans then you cut your cultural roots that's your ancestor and this is a tragedy but then we try to tell and we hope we have that faith that you gather you see when people you find the same problem in your part both in another country and that and then when you all join together yes international Facebook or whatever you'll be strong enough where people who are as you say St. Paul's the two thousand and one of them and it will happen I think you're doing really well this presentation is part of the struggle yes right I can tell you I also do North American Indian research and then standing rock standing rock we have some connection one step one step and you'll be so strong yes it's good we have a really fast forward audience here and then we know you know we know all this unity together and they are not by themselves they are not alone and then if we walk together if this was happen like this I think but we start with small stage everything in small stage we think of women's right material on the top yes thank you thank you for giving us the hope so yes it's a part of like I believe that you have to do something to make changes that you want to see and this is what I've been doing so I don't lose that hope and instead so learn to cook the second part here and this is my part of my courses that many every semester like September to December this term I call four semester and this is since 2013 actually I use so this is I call the class many yes and this is different I invite other people so very very interesting and that's actually it a lot of my time because a lot of preparation a lot of context a lot of before and after so and this is all run by fast and also from and also community yeah and I also have to find the funding or sometimes if I don't have the money I pay my own money because I invite a lecturer yeah and you need okay so this is my 2017 the last year and see this is Amish and she know all the plans and she teach students you know this is all editable plans yeah so for this knowledge and this is the pigeon pink shoot out yeah from the we brought here and indigenous people like this things a lot because that increase in men's sexuality yeah okay and then so the student how to know how to prepare the food this is kind of bamboo only come out in springtime yes yeah Amish people yeah so I really and I found this poster all made by students you know I think for me as a teachers I'm good at finding students talent and then I will develop them and they get the confidence about that and I pay them too it's not cheap labor you know they do pay them yeah to do that and they can put that with their portfolio yeah when they want to find a job in the future yeah so this and then we build this that's our kitchen best yeah I move this to my house now I'll show you later and this is the community I work with together and now they adapt the pattern from the campus and they also before if you go to indigenous community nobody will serve you food so you just come and sit and eat like a guest and they serve like a servant but now you have to do it yourself with them together yeah so you cook together you share together so the position about host and guest the equality yeah so bring that and so you will know it's not they are not serving anymore you are walk together yeah and this is the food we grow on campus yeah but every season every season are different so now for example if you go to middle form you will see it's kind of dessert then because it's summer all the students and summer is not the time to grow food in Taiwan and also this is international student in Taiwan so I will invite them he in order to cut this Indian curry he have to counter with his mouth because he never really cook at home you know Indian boy you know so and this is the way so in order to prepare this workshop he have to go and search he told me he search for the internet he call his mom he call his auntie for all the recipe yeah so this is bring there also the cooking skill yeah and I never expected when I say you want to share something with us from Indian curry whatever he say sure but I never know he never cook at home because mom did everything for him yeah he still he is not postdoc okay so cooking is a way to cross culture communication and Indian food in Taiwan is very it's not very popular in Taiwan a lot of people really don't know they only know curry and they only know this curry powder they didn't know curry has miss all different spices so it's a good way for them to learn okay see we all cut the traditional way it's not gas you have to find the route on campus yeah and this is the in Taiwan the only legal place to barbecue and to cook and have drink too because for indigenous people special festival we need to drink Mila wine so that's the only place legalized drinking okay it's also cooking as a share and culture and knowledge yeah this is actually this theme Chinabu and then this is remember the shelf I bring her to my class so she introduce all this wild vegetable I think it's much so all the spring vegetables and even flowers wild flowers are edible and that's knowledge most of students they don't know and they see and then they cook all these ingredients we made them into dishes and then we share so I call this and I have another another one yeah this is the one I want him to cook with Jamie Oliver let get shelf together and he run a very famous restaurant called Tao Weng Bai He Chun Tian if you come to East Coast and they have a beautiful presentation and it's not only food it's an art to me and this kind of art presentation he also have a TV cooking program yeah so he's really famous and I'm really he's a good fisherman too which Amish man supposed to be a good fisherman yeah okay so and this is in my local this is actually my home the local cooking and eating with the local community see this is elder and then that is the thing he produce like tomato and orange and the other things and I still don't cook in his place and bring food to here and we share you see the kids this is the community kids yeah we did that since 2014 and every year we have this so this form to table edible heritage activity including farming as you see earlier different festivals this is shooting years for festival for people and Richard different Richard we also run workshop cooking and then you pick up doing this knowing and bring the knowledge become part of you yeah and also see anthropology Clifford say traditional features and how we use past bring to the pleasant and lead them to the features so for me all this farming this is culture this is Chinabu if you look carefully maybe too small yeah and this is also the elder teachers how to make bamboo plant yeah so by hand and this is to make the wild flowers make into beautiful crowns and this kind of singing have become part of heritage we also learning the language and culture thinking like I I not only speak a little bit I mean but the other indigenous language I learn through thinking yeah so yeah and now I bring you to the community you probably recognize her yeah so this is see our indigenous friends they still put protest in the presidential building outside now they push away to the MRT train station so they want their traditional territory back yeah so this fighting still going on and this is the chief he's a cultural leader also political leader he's also leader yeah so like village mayor yeah but he's also a cultural chief yeah if you look this is this is tower say nobody is an outsider yeah so we have to fight for the right yeah so from university and community for me it's this connectedness we do research we go and interview people but most of us after you research them you're not engaged with your informant but for us we continue that kind of legacy and we continue that relationship become part of not because research project I interview you it's because I care it's because I won't become part of you and your family and your culture so this connectedness yeah and also we respect elder different tribes and different knowledge and even how to deal with millet when we say the millet is so tiny the grain and how we eat it how we take care of them this is all practical knowledge you can't really learn from book knowledge and then we bring them back and even this bamboo how did you when you have a pile of bamboo you don't know how to deal with that and so it won't become bitter there's a special way yeah and there's all this beautiful elder lady they're singing because really they sing because they can but they're singing if you don't know the language they all lose their culture yeah so yeah and also this from I have to say I know very little about the plants before I start my project but because of this now I can identify it and then also when I walk and like yesterday I was at a high park that is edible so I think I'll become part of this armies yeah yeah to look at the plants the first thing I always ask is can we eat them yeah okay yeah probably before and then and I have this kind of eye for wild vegetables now yeah so it really it's not only because my research it's become that part of you your cultural sensitivity yeah and I want to bring that back to my student too and for a founding education as an embodiment of learning yes and this is my student who took the course and then we went to the elementary school the the college kids teach the small kids yeah yeah and yes the knife how to hold a knife yes and this is I told you about Scott bring his students right so they also participate in our class and the students the local student to use the English to introduce the and they do it together so that's the way they practice English for them to communicate yeah so this is more and then if they can't say that they just use their body language yeah so this is the way I think that the learning will become more interesting and they will know really how to communicate with verbal and nonverbal yeah yeah and Elder Winston is a cultural heritage and when we do all this when we went to elementary school we also invite a local elder come and they will tell us about the history the story about this land about their folklore about their belief and this is how we learn how we all we learn together and I remember when he said if he said this is our land and now it's become part of elementary school because the government normally will take a lot of indigenous land make it into national park or make it into school or make it into so called fact like sugar can yeah protection thank you yeah so yeah and that is so we have that because from the university right and my students also we brought up this pattern or this back to this elementary school and this elder I remember she was so excited because she said for over 60 50 60 years she never think meaningless growing on this land so she's really happy this lost culture or cultural heritage come back to the land and now they use that as part of their tribal education tribal education and see this is the harvest time and that's our student he's my MS student he's working on his business and he is from this village but he used to be grow up in the city and because this now he want to come back and he's now also a part-time teacher the elementary school because the project and they need teachers and so he now got a job but it's a part-time job but for him to return this is also another one he was writing his thesis about this constant about return growing up in the city and now want to return to their so-called their parents or grandparents village actually it's never easy so he was writing about that and this is father and son and this is a very old way to collecting rice to make the rice so this is already lost because now it's all modernization I haven't used the machine but this so he learned his father's techniques and the knowledge where the rice I actually speak the truth I grew up not in Taiwan I grew up in Ponggu the other island so I never really see how rice grow because it's very dry there so when I first saw rice to me it's really become this reality because I never really see how rice grow and a lot of my students from city they only see the white rice they never see this kind of yellow when it's a grain and when they're back to the farm they're playing and they know so when we work with community students also work to the rice field so it's not only millet because now rice is more the crops that grow and that's also the economic resources too fishing so I don't know how many people know how to fix the fishing net so all this kind of knowledge has fading away but for fishmen the first thing you need to learn is how to fix the fishing net so our students learn how to tidy it up and that is all these things I never knew so just go fishing you have to have know a lot of details and this is when I work with them I learned and this is also the elementary kids when we have all series of this course and this is the drawing he draw yeah so this is for him and I ask him why he depend like this because I am armies so they're really proud of who they are and I think some people know before indigenous people are not proud of who they are they try to hide because for indigenous people they come up with a lot of negative stereotypes and that history we try to change that too and this is all later you will see how all this because for the in community they all grow rice and we help them to design some of the products so they can become and this is a local local plant and they also work with other people who can help them because I don't know much about this but they can work with other people and I can connect them with some of my colleagues who know more about this and then they develop more other products so they can use for and this is kind of me value I really highly encourage you if you go to Taiwan if you come to Taiwan contact with me and I will tell you go somewhere not go on this kind of expensive tour you can come and spend some money with them because the money go to the local community yeah and this is the student we joined some kind of events my student the whole summer really they learn to be a farmers which when I was traveling when I was in North America they spent the whole summer working with them and this is our first team yeah so this is sticky rice yeah you pound that with sticky rice and then with some of this quinoa together so all healthy things yeah and this is Chinabu too it's kind of steamed rice yeah and you cover with kind of it's not banana it's not banana, we're tough yeah we're tough but you can use banana leaf too yeah so then community I work with them and get them some kind of like how to make their tour much more interesting to attract more tourists yeah and now all this kind of share cooking together and then full presentation which because I'm doing indigenous restaurant that's the talk I'm doing tomorrow yeah so actually that talk is kind of my earlier research yeah and this is the term I work with indigenous restaurant I know how to make the food more presentable yeah so all this yeah sense of beauty yeah so concept about performance also very important and that's I use that when I in my PFD thesis and I continue to use that concept it's the performance it's of course from my only performance study is also how food can be a good performance to make people kind of seduce people I want more and I hope my talk give you hungry about all this and yeah and after all this this is breathing life this is my home and as another my education the thing I can't do on campus I move to my place so continue and I open to my house I think people heard about culture study yeah you can come and stay with me for free and I change my status not accept people because I'm here so I can host them but I also open that so private property into public space yeah and when I have a house a guest to come and stay with me I also let people know community people know my student and they can come and help to know each of them so for this edible asset yes sorry edible asset and then here also because when I want to raise chicken we need chicken and I can't do it another working holiday for me to make to make the cooks for me so we made two cooks yeah chicken cooks and that's part of my chickens and geese and also doing and little kids from community will come and international culture server will come and together so that is yoji yeah so yeah it's yoji and yoji yeah you're right to play the words so all this working holiday is an environmental education too so I open to the public yeah so because when I'm in Taiwan I'm not too busy I will accept the guests so there's a fan page on Facebook? yes if you google that you google this yes I do I think I do have some yes I do yes I do if you're interested but I think I'll go some I'll find it out later because I've got too many things and here I think I also see community project I have a project when we have a lunchtime you ask me where the money comes from and I also applied for CE the private business and I wrote a project called Be My Family when I open to my house and what we do the people come and they do we charge this is 2200 for people to come and stay in this village for two nights they don't go anywhere and they have wonderful time we do attract 15 people to come and there are some people from Taipei so we think our program must be very attractive and I have feedback and they are very happy and this is actually in my house the lane and also promote the slow travel and I get this pattern to the local community so some of this kind of tour they can read whatever and they can use that so I hope this is unseen and also I want to produce this hospitality the concert about hospitality and I also think for Taiwan want to beat China is this is this hospitality it's quite dying so our tourism it's not that the big mountain it's not the river because we are different and see and also the project we build is all the students we run another project to build our own bathroom because we need outside when we have an event so we have this mindset so yes learning by doing actually it's conclusion from literature to tourism from western main center to this indigenous minority from literary text to this kind of social and food text table to form edible identity this is what I've been doing and this is what I believe if you want to change you start doing something positive and then you can make some really things happen we have our t-shirt so we also students also learn to run business model and we also have this postcard so if you come to Taiwan welcome to breathing life and I hope you will enjoy what I've been doing and I hope any questions or comments and then I can we can share how much Joyce told us it was going to be quite a autobiographical talk and it really was you've got multiple journeys there it really kind of makes us think about teaching and how teaching can be different actually have an impact as well there are so many things that I really think about when students are talking to us about what are their potential research topics one of the things that we always try to drill in do something that you really feel passionate about you made an interesting point about the fact that not many academics are happy and probably from the student angle we have a kind of dream job but I didn't realise this until I became an academic I would say a large proportion of my colleagues are heavily stressed and not particularly cheerful so there are a lot of lessons there from your case I just had a couple of practical questions I'm sure you all have a lot of issues I'm quite curious about this look like you're trying to bridge generations I thought it was really interesting the way you heard do you ever have any kind of generational clashes because you've got students and their parents and probably in the past there was a lot of tension between those two groups was that ever a problem and so how do you overcome that well I think you really ask a good question because there's different values and different love styles and when I want to put them together you always have to like to satisfy both sides what I've been doing is I always feel valuable so when you make the elder feel valuable and they have their pride and they become the so called teachers and the students I also met a student for example the elder don't never know how to use computer and then for something which student they can learn from each other so for that part I will also met the elder to see the value of the elder generation and I think we start when they're working together they actually can create more harmonious relationship rather than conflict but we still will fast sometime the elder generation they have their certain belief and say oh we don't do this way and so I have to become to tell them yes we will do this way yeah so once you try to make up understanding actually they're probably not happy but at least they can accept yeah but I think the main issue is you need to make both generation or different generation their value can be recognized and then once they have that each you it's not who's right or wrong but it's like okay we want this but we also need a student their modern version being creative so all this kind of tradition and so called creativity or modernity how they can combine together become something we are proud of it yeah so okay yes how do you trust how do you let the local indigenous community oh trust yes yes yes yes yes yes yeah thank you I think first I go to community and I let them know I want to learn from them and once they know all your professor from university and you want to come and also invite me to come to university to share my knowledge I think that attitude already changed and first you have to be accepted and for me to be accepted I not only know them right away I actually been working with them since 2004 when I back to Taiwan yeah I go and visit with students you know my student actually is my treasure I have to say I go I went back with them and spend some time with their elder generations to build their trust in tax time but you have to be sincere too and you to let them understand what is your value you know so I want more like you I explained to them what I want to do and they recognize that and then once they are happy to come and also I have to say you have I paid them when they come and they are happy oh just tell my story and I got some money you know so you have a lot of different way you can't just tell for granted say oh I invite you you know yeah they are here and I made them feel they are really a teacher you know so they know most of the time they wouldn't come to university they even not study in the university and now they come to university as a lecturer so it takes time and you need to be as a university teacher you also as a role you need to be really humble for me humble and humble yeah because I really know not to compare with them yeah I have a question for everyone it's about edible plants because I know British people they love their garden a lot because I watch BBC program about how to garden you know but I realize maybe in your garden there's more edible plants probably but I mean in Taiwan every family or household they will have they want everything will be edible even just a small balcony but I'm not sure about this kind of small farm in every household and this garden in family British family it's the concept or the value of how to you see my two friends they are good governors did you want to respond to that and at least we must say something well I think we have a move towards using plants that we muster stations, geraniums it's featured on various programs and I think a move back to foraging as well which you mentioned I think when we were young we went and picked wild mushroom all the berries the edible berries in the autumn and I think there is a move coming back to foraging for roots as well sandiline so I do think we are getting back to it yes I think it's also in British culture it's something that was very central to family life or households up until probably about the 1950s and then probably I'm not an expert in this but the sort of industrialization of food and changing of move to supermarkets that's probably changed that over time but very much it was the front garden or back garden one of the others would be the vegetable garden usually the male preserved and then the flowers would have been grown by the woman at the household so there are some really interesting things about that but I think the media and a lot of these other programs that some of these things about growing in small pots on balconies and things like that I can try to re-emerge and I don't know Joyce is pointing to me but I have two allotments and I don't know if everybody knows what an allotment is or has ever been to one in Britain but this is sort of areas of land where you can rent a piece of land and vegetables and it seems to become much more popular yes and certainly where I live in the suburbs of Bristol it is predominantly older retired men from the area but it's interesting to see I've only had an allotment for five years how that is really shifting even in our area which is quite a traditional area where there's a lot more younger people that are competing for very expensive anyway I think I think it depends on who you live with there's a lot of YouTube programs on the wild food and I've got that in one you can eat in private to meals and the medicinal there are a lot of people coming back in fact wild foods and herbs and everything they're growing it's just that the main topic doesn't know it's because it's not being written or on television but if you go to the forest people say open day you'll go, you'll be surprised how many people you meet that actually goes back to traditional food and they'll teach you how to grow and how to look for it and if you actually go on YouTube wild foods or vegetables or flowers you have plenty we have some survival programs as well they have some other programs a lot of them I'm writing but British has got a lot of their programs if you want they turn out plenty and that's how you actually learn you learn through meeting people go on open days where the forests are open and where there are walks and especially just go in what is going on or go to the farm and you'll be surprised how many people are doing that right so could you talk a little bit about your students and what they do afterwards I know that parents these days tend to be very concerned about careers what kind of careers your alumni got into I already told you one of the students now back to the village is a teacher and I also have students who back to their own village and the community and become a kind of culture you know the organizer for the events and for to bring the culture back and one of my students now is going to do a PhD so in the future you will be you will tap like Indigenous college that will be their position and then I think two students also engage with this kind of research system actually about the wild the wild vegetables edible knowledge so they actually doing very well is because they have extra this is an extra activity for the communities and also this community service I think now UK or states are very very popular for university students have to add this kind of community service and because they put that we have been doing a lot a lot of events and that made the CB very very impressive so they actually got a really good job and then that's all related to what we try to promote so our knowledge I call this cultural studies now it's kind of spreading up here and there and go to different parts of Taiwan so it's my revolution I wonder whether you could comment on because you have there's a little bit overlap between your kind of project and this focus on cooking and farming do you have any kind of comments on this thank you for your question I run the gas house in my own community in southern part of Taiwan in the Amashara community and I spend a lot of time to use my gas house space to be an artist space to invite artists to make our work for example I made an offside cultural practice in the cemetery in my home has raised awareness of cultural exhibition in Taiwan and Joyce is my is my teacher and she is my friend and we were just thinking about how to collaborate to using the cultural perspective and food and fat program to get in the future I think yeah actually I would also say in terms of indigenous social movement in Taiwan for me now food and arts this is what I call soft power and this soft power it's going to make a huge impact on people because that's more acceptable for example like even singing like there's an army singer Sumin, I think Sumin gave a talk here right anyway Sumin because we were in Bhutan together and he was singing he was singing for people to see to know to understand the Taiwanese indigenous issues and culture for me and I also disbelieve I share with my students you can be an activism without throwing stones in the street you can grow food you can write a song you can write a poem and this kind of soft way to make people understanding and become part of you of them with you not against you what you could do is have a program for example the singing if you actually have the people who sing and then you are educating the people in your country anyone who is interested will say oh I like that, I like that and they are being aware and then you will be able to worldwide find similarity the way to go forward is similarities and then you become stronger you got your your connection you see that way when it's the right time people will connect with you and that's where your strength is not whatever it's having the modern and the ancient people there in media where anyone can go in including your own citizens that way they go oh I want to do that they are talking to you okay go ahead very interested in how you might position yourself in terms of research methods and I suspect everybody on this table is struggling with or has issues of thinking about how to do their research what I was really interested in is often we are told not to go native to distance ourselves from our research participants to have some sort of objectivity and I'd be really interested if you could just reflect on how you deal with that sort of being in there and part of it and very passionate about that but in terms of writing about your research how then do you move forward and take that? thank you Julia I have problem with that that's why I've still now become a full professor it's a joke but it's also true because I think I spent since 2009 I've become a social professor and since then at the beginning I don't care about the academic circles I want to go on my way so I was doing all this because I engage so much and I need certain distance and I also need when I say I need to see your life about what I've been doing that kind of distance for me I now try to distance myself and it takes some time and that's why I kind of writing up now and actually this kind of bringing like engage yourself too much also this kind of going native or being in native whatever anthropologist try not to put yourself me too much in your writing and how did you write up all this ethnographic self and actually I'm still finding the way and I'm struggling actually because then it's become so descriptive it's all stories but what is the argument and then you already see the problem is because once I lose that kind of objective the different perspective I need kind of different perspective and that's why I think so far for me standing point from feminism perspective is helpful for me because I want you to know where I stand and where I start and I think this kind of start with journey and then how I become who I am today and with my research is important but I'm still searching that and how do you come with because I was a bit breathless and I did different projects is that a problem for focusing because I mean again I think we're both kind of mid-career mid-career state and we seem to kind of build up more and more projects I mean how do you deal with that because I thought I was multi-tasking but you know that's why when I mention single it's important it's true I don't have kids to take care of and I can devote myself and I have three loving sisters elder sister who can take care of my mom when she suffer from dementia and my sister that truly support me I have a loving family go and do what you believe because that's what we can't do and you can do that for us I do have a loving family to support me and then also Julia has a twin and there's three boys and William too, three boys and that's actually the family I think very few people talking about this being an academic and then also female and then also you're not only somebody's wife you might somebody's daughter you have elder parent to take care of too and have it in society so you have to go and visit that is you a lot of time and I've been really lucky because of my understanding family and I also really totally devoted myself with all this project so I don't, sorry but that's something I enjoy doing otherwise it's all the preparation all the contacts all the after works all the time and then I'm tired so I won't sit there in front of my computer no so it's all the priority, what do you want you can focus on writing up just write without doing audit but if you want to do all this event that's me and then I also, I didn't send an email that I did before because I don't have time I was really busy so I was so busy with all this and every time I have to do and you can notice that I insist for students also engage with all this kind of training because it's part of learning too so every event we want poster really nice poster we want this design we have this this is breathing life one of the business car I like it here like this you can open this like this we all create that this QR code and that link to our Facebook page so all this and students are proud of that and if just ordinary courses they wouldn't learn something like this yeah, so here you see that one we have English version and we also have Chinese version too and the postcard you see here and that is the other thing breathing life that is the thing we do yes, Julia, go ahead maybe we should bring out the kinks go ahead so I suppose for those in academic positions we're very bogged down everyday life expectations bringing in certain numbers of students academic performance and you've been quite innovative Joyce, I think you did the right thing by going home actually you sort of created this niche that overlaps your personal life and work and fought for that in the early stages so I'm just interested in how that has changed the attitude of the university and sort of more institutional framing to see what you're doing and appreciating that and recognizing her yeah, thank you I think Julia, when she said I make the right choice going home it's because I've got to jump over in the UK I can stay in the UK but at that time nobody can tell you whether I make the right choices but now all my friends know me they know Joyce, you make the right choice to go home I would never I would never even just build a house by that was that a gut feeling? sorry I think you have to follow your heart it's never easy because like, Julia I've been listening to what should I do there's so many layers that's the bottom and then just it's circumstances I mean, you know you've made you didn't have that vision when you went home you've made it out of the circumstances through which you've done it by getting home but I'm really interested in what does the university think about it? university, I have to say when I started doing this let me put my colleague one of the senior colleagues said, Joyce what did you do this for you to become a full professor? now, I want to publish a paper and I thought that can make me become a full professor but that's to say at that time, people think what you waste your time as an academic, you should focus on your publication you should write, write, write and publish, publish publish all the clothes but at that time I think then I took the guts to do something I want to do I'm passionate about it and for university, at the beginning they, you know as long as I don't ask for money they're happy, you know and then when we do this and they become a cultural landscape they will bring the people to say see this is what we've been doing so they take the credit but I never got fully supported by the government or even by my colleagues but when they want something to show off they're happy to show that so in some way they recognize that and I have to say we have this kind of so-called social participant social participation participation center and I think I talk to the center, the director I say if don't want to be a different university we should allow the teacher for example what I've been doing should be recognized because I also bought some of the project money you know and too so I already initiate some kind of collaboration and they can be recognized become a full professor you should do this because what I've been doing but they never can become reality so I still have to go back to the research train, I still have to use my publication to persuade people I am enough intellectual academia ability to become a full professor to me I want to become a full professor because that's the only thing I can have a sabbatical lead that's the only reason I know my ability so that's why otherwise I don't care it's better to train someone while you're away or else all your work goes down the drain but then I'm really good but someone in charge has got to be there before you take this or else you regret that's why I have my house nobody take away when you go away that's why that is a voice I have to say one of my other colleagues who is the expert of Ataya they're going to build a traditional Ataya house they are doing now so I have to say I have to inspire some of the other colleagues who will get more involved with that and they also believe indigenous education can do something different so they're going to build a kind of wooden Ataya traditional house just next to the middle house so gradually this will become another cultural landscape of Dong Hua University okay on that note maybe we could just continue our discussion over some some coffee