 Welcome back to the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Our first major conversation would begin with the People's Democratic Party PDP. There seems to be a crisis internally there and we'll be speaking about this with a political analyst Mr Okunaba in Kutaria. Good morning, thank you for joining us. Good morning and good morning viewers. Okay let's begin with how you see what's happening with PDP. How would you analyze the situation where people are resigning from the party defecting and are saying this is a problem of poor leadership from Uchisakondas. Uchisakondas releases a statement daring people to go ahead and list exactly what their challenges are. Atiku also putting out a statement to say that he has nothing to do with what's happening with Sakondas. How do you see it? I describe it as and name Sampsonite Party Makaba Dan at the P.I.T.O. of Negalominia and Begaros Control. The allegations are sweet. I said this in the sister station that it's just wisdoms ostensibly are bound for interesting vision by characters or persons who believe that it's continuous stay in office. Because of the party national channel, it has a major role, a crucial role in play in those of Sinti's team. And whoever has made the Sinti into his accomplice is also very important and has a crucial role in play in who emerges as the party's presidential candidate, conference candidate, and other officers that will be contested for 2023. And so what they did was to architecture this scheme in the world in pressure. I'm not a big presenter, I'm not an ABC member. So when I speak I think about the party, what they did or what they are doing to architecture this scheme in order to out remove future accomplice. And why not wait? If you look at the logic, why is it defying the the form of logic? In another two or three months, there are many alcoholics. They are not ready to wait because they are handling for the soul of that party. So what they wanted, because in two or three months, when he meets at the expiration of his tenure, when he meets, he's also going to play a major role in who he meets. You cannot take for granted the file of the chairman of the party. Even if you're a government, you can't take that for granted. That's not for somebody who has been in office for four years. You can't take his class program. So what they are trying to do is to hamstring that process. So if nothing is nothing to get out, we are going to get our lawyers, we are going to get our fissiandos into office and are interim chairmen or interim leaders. And they will now be wired, those that will call them as substantive leaders. That is worthy for Ula Baaloozola. I agree. I agree. I agree that the leadership is not as varied as in fact we look at it as not as varied as the eighties was, but also consider the environment between the five ourselves. We have a government that is intolerant and doesn't take us to criticism. We also want to have room to only submit to all the government that was quite tolerant of criticism. So these are the issues playing out. That's where I was, you know, headed. So is there a sense in saying that the reason behind all of this is because they know that they have very, very major elections coming up in 2023 and they would need to have a party chairman that is more vibrant or, you know, more similar to what the APC was in 2014 and built up to the elections then. Is that a sensible theory to push forward that Uche Secundus has not been or not had as much vibrance in him to lead the party to victory if they are serious about taking over in 2023? I also agree that the Secundus leadership is not as vibrant as expected as immediate Uche Secundus. But then that argument is borne by the fact that Secundus will not be in office until 2023, when the NASA Elections is taking place. You have those two, three months, so why not allow the two, three months to expire? And you can now orchestrate those that will come into office and give you the application that you are talking about. That is the argument there. So why a lot of people are saying no, and are also giving slander interpretation into whatever is going on. It's simple because they believe that this man is not hysterical as they have only October, November or January about. So why not let it be? Then you now bring in that vibrant man that you believe that will take the party that will ensure victory of the believe in 2023. You have just about, you have more than a year to go. So why are you in the hurry? But it's more or less like NASA's opposition has more or less given data. And I think that when you consider the snaggery mass made by the likes of the years of Uche and Cook, who has not stopped at anything in condemning, taking over in 2023 that's it. Even, I tell you what, now, Secundus made a purchase. I remember that in the last year or the year after, where even Osama Fahde said that the performance of the pressure on the part of the press also participated as a protest. And what did the government question say? Is that rather than winning members, you are protesting. So what are you going to do? The protest was also part of the vibrancy that we were talking about. And considering the accretion of going on right now in the PDT, that's why they completely said that you don't need all these problems. There are ways you can talk about it. Of course, conflict is a problem of the character. And because mass can not not communicate, mass is protocol. But the reason we talk about conflict is what the peace and accretion is. All right. So are you, are you basically then saying that? I'm not saying that. I'm also not condemning it, but the time is long. Okay. I also need to address. Okay. You've said a couple of things that I need you to piece together for me. Are you basically saying that this is not a challenge of, you know, the leadership of the person which is Secundus, but this is personal? I think it's more, it's more personal than leadership. I think it has to do with, that's what I said. That's what I mean. Anyway, that's my thinking. They are not able to tell us exactly what the problems are. We are only extrapolating. That's what we're doing. We blame all the peace leaders of the Commitment together and assume that this is what is going on. But I don't think it's more of leadership, but give it leadership. It is simple, like I rightly said. You just wait for the mass. This kind of a story, two, three more. One for him to get out of there and get the leader you want. Because this is a precocious science of failure. You're also telling the party governor an influx of what you have started to do. You're also telling the party that move. You're also telling the party that move the community in itself is not another. We are saying this is a matter. Now the community has very full of shoes. So if it's not heavy for the party, it doesn't speak well for the party. So they don't do it there for the standard to expect. And then get somebody wherever they want to get in office. But they are scared that it's also going to influx with good society as a group. How much damage do you think this does to their chances if they are not able to put their house in order in time for the elections and to build up to the elections? How much damage do you think this does? And of course, also respond to the fact that there have been more than a comfortable number of PDP governors and members who have decamped to the APC, even with all the criticism of the APC. It's not wise for any political party right now to think of these things. It's not going to be in office till next year. More people are still going to leave. The ADWC member, one of them and the other thing, he pleaded to APC. So these things are used as specials release from the party. The party is grounded to the halt. How much damage does this do? I don't know this grounded to the halt. So if you are political secretary, you will try to serve the party. The members are supposed to be what I call salvers. Those that are going to serve the party and not those that are going to deep in the first time in crisis in the party. Because that's exactly what has happened. That's not the process. PDP is in their position. So it doesn't mean that it means less. It means you don't think that it's right now. So if you lost the party and you are political secretary, you will avoid it. And especially when you know that the man is in the twilight of his tenure, what's the rush? Why you rush? Just because you know one thing to do first, who will succeed. That's something that's right. And the other thing is not going to resign. So you can invite the MPs out there and they go to the challenge and they take the media out to get you out of the crisis. So it's definitely not the best. And after the time of PDP and ACD, people are saying PDP is not going to come back. Because of the abuse of a lot of ACDs, not that PDP is better. But they believe that you You cannot realize something any other protocol because in PDP which are in this party, particularly and form another party, in 2013 and 2014, form another party that will come and pick both the PDP and the APC in the next election. So it is the right now you need to get there. And also, what's the situation you already have in the past? Is there a next session? There is a next session. Okay, so we saw a statement that the PDP House Caucus released yesterday. They said that the Urgent, the National Chairman, Prince Ocho Secondus, to go ahead to resign as a necessary personal sacrifice worthy of a leader. How do you analyze this, saying that it's a sacrifice that he needs to make? Because Secondus didn't sign. You know, every student who goes to Thailand, and where their man is put to the wall, he bounces back with a double step. I think Secondus probably won't have the time. But because he had a conviction that this thing is being engineered and orchestrated by his enemies of the Sikh enemy. He wants to prove a point that he cannot be tossed around. That's exactly why he said he's not going to resign. That is my thing. I've not talked to Secondus. I've probably laughed at myself, Secondus, for when I was in office. I have not seen him since then. That's the truth. But he believes that he's been oppressed, he's been mind-alive by certain persons that are remotely controlling this thing. And so he doesn't want to capitulate. That's the truth. That's why he said, I will not resign. That's the truth about it. Mr. Inkotari, I want us to talk now about persons in the party that might be very relevant in the set for peace. The former Senate president, Bukal Asaraki, Tiku Abu Bakar, former president, Gulag Jonathan, these are still some of the very high-ranked members of the People's Democratic Party. Do you think that they would be of any relevance in the set for peace here? Well, it also depends on the sincerity of the purpose. Of course, if the issue of peace has to do with the signature of Secondus, I don't see that coming to cushion. He said he would not be able to resign, and he has got two, three months to go, or 34 months to go to the other party. So, as leaders and as speech makers, what I expect them to do is to come face-to-face by all those coming for his resignation to tie a wire, exercise this. Because you feel like, you know, not also, Bukal, it has to do with the reputation of one. When you leave, even 20 years after, it will be said that you are kicked out of it for bad leaders. If it is, you might have cut a small, you can give me your reputation, of you as leaders. So, a lot of, what I advise the so-called leaders, let me not say so-called, but that by some, the other way. The leaders and the speech makers, so-called the speech makers, because I don't really know the inclination. A lot of these politicians, the one in there with Mr. A, and in the evening there with Mr. A being, I really thought what would you pretend to be neutral? That's the truth about politics. So, these, so-called the speech makers, through that, I also advise those coming for the, now, I think it's not an egopathy. Do you believe, as a minister, as a minister, I insist that if we, if he doesn't resign, if he's not compelled to resign, then we are lost. We are under war. He's also saying, no, not at all, you cannot force me to resign. It is not because people want me to go, it is because, particularly in my country, if you want me out of office, that is a clash. So, what my advice is, they should leave with you, only for a second, if it is easier to leave with them, and for them to agree, then for a second or so. Because a second or so has to do with this kind of thing. So, they should leave with you, only for a second, they should not be aware, exercise with you. In three, four months, you'll be out of office. I know you would have loved to be re-elected. But, it's obvious right now that you're not going to get a re-election. Because it's going to be a 15-illusion, it's rising. You're not going to get that in the election. So, I want him to finish. Two, three months, let him leave that office, and whoever you want to come in to take over, that's okay. And that's the case you are talking about. You need to be more interested in getting more members that invested their access to the budget. So, when we take a look at this statement that was released yesterday by the PDP House caucus, we saw that, first of all, there are 19 members of the National Working Committee in the PDP, and only six of them signed that statement, saying that they were in support of seconders being out of the party. Now, Seracadix in his own analysis of this went in to say that the fact that it's even a minority, only six people signed that statement, that it's in fact gross misconduct and they should be penalized for that. Do you agree with that angle? No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't think that anybody should penalize women. I don't think so. I mean, in the interest of peace, right now, we are worried that's why people are tundering for more women. But if you really want to be, I also am about to penalize anybody. It's not necessary to like. Why are you going to penalize them? For how many months? Is it saying they should be suspended from the party or when they are expelled from the party? It's not necessary. You don't need to penalize them. You need peace. You don't need to reach accommodation on easy. So he doesn't need to penalize anybody. Nobody should be penalized. They should not agree or manage. You know, this is great in terms of management of conflict. There's a different between resolution of conflict and management of conflict. When resolution of conflict is almost impossible, then you resort to management of conflict. And that is what I've taught them to do right now is to manage the conflict on the tenure of the present NWC members as well. As far as I'm not surprised that you can get away with one. But I think the major problem is the fear that he's going to implement women's subsidy. I think that is the major problem. Otherwise, even those individuals who are probably without a move. Now, to answer your question, how many people can be penalized? Okay, away from any penalties now. I was talking about 19 NWC members, only six appended their signature to that. So would you even say that that call for his resignation is an honesty? Seeing that, you know, it seems like a minority voice speech. Yeah, I would do this as promenade. For this group of promenade, it's a major. There are other markets in the major world which is not going to happen. Out of 19 NWC members, another agenda that I'm talking to you who are seen as a Christian to do system and move on. It's not going to work. I mean, it's a delusional exercise discussion. So, since it's not going to happen in fact, you don't need to penalize it, don't allow it. I mean, you need to have disagreement. Even if you disagree with your parents, you disagree with your children, you disagree with your friends. Even when you're treated, you can talk like this. So it is okay. I mean, all of them are conflict. All of them, they say, all of them without these bottom complexity without what they're going to do. The synthesis of both would be quite interesting. So it's okay. I mean, you have to say, you multiply them into the six and I'll take the other ones. All right. And now I want us to talk of... I want to talk now on the PDP itself as an opposition party. Two questions I'm going to ask. The first one was the same question basically, is how you feel the PDP could have done better? And I remember that you mentioned that we're in peculiar times now. It's not the same way the former administration handled opposition that the current administration is handling opposition. But in what ways do you think the PDP could have done better as an opposition party to ensure that they still have Nigerians believing in them as an option? And then second, do you think that PDP governors themselves have not done well enough to show that the PDP is still a party that has a totally different ideology and thinking and is more progressive than the APC? Well, I'll have the first second question. The party PDP is always reacting and not reacting, which is not to do with politics. You want to act? In fact, you must set the agenda. You know, propaganda is allowed when politics... You must set the agenda and let the government react. That is one. The PDP is not reacting. And I set the PDP to always organize sympodia, you know, talk show, protest here and there. There are so many issues that Nigerians are not happy with. We're talking about recently the PIB bill. We are talking about the Controversial Electoral Transmission and so on. The PDP should not capitalize on this thing, though. Organize sympodia, talk show, protest, peaceful protest, which is allowed to take the law, which is impossible. These are the things we expect. And that's why they say... Because this is my Mohammed's thing. He criticized even the best policy that was done at the time. He criticized, you know. I'm just thinking, in doing this, you're going to have some sympathy that's for all of us. So, indeed, I'm going to... You know what I'm saying? One, one best act that is for the government. You cannot compare. But if you like, you want to do what they achieve, then of course, it should have been a really thing for the PDP members. Unfortunately, they haven't yet done the same thing. That is one. Then you talk of something again... They're going to state-wise. State-wise, PDP governors in their state, yes. Very few governors. Maybe half of the PDP governors, very few, let's say, three or four. Just three or four of them. And it really is not going to do the party. Please, let us get that straight. It's time to do the PDP. The party's got my job. Most PDP-seen members today are PDP members, as governors or as ministers. And most PDP members, but some PDP governors have moved from PDP to PDC. Who are they going to play? The first house has their tail. They are there, they want to drive the city. So, indeed, the people are going to step in the state. The doper has to defend a local public channel, commissioners and so, who believe that the demands of democracy is not clear in that. It's not clear. Not for the governor himself. Because what did he say here? He's not going to run to anybody. Like, they will run to him. He can't be decision. So, why would he decide? Therefore, there's no ideology. I'm not sure to say, these people are, people with distorted perception of life that they are indefinitely stuck with what goes on. They don't have a, they've done their part of set-to-crisis, not a twisty-crisis. And so, it has nothing to do with the party. It has to do, it has nothing to do with governors. It has to do with Stomach. That's your prison. Where will I go to ensure that my ambition is realized? Yeah. Let no one to be in peace. You know, don't forget there are moansu and the others also are accused and also are looting to dictatorship in the Philippines that the party is being controlled by one or two parties. And so, they believe that they have not achieved their vision in that party. And most of them's government has their vision to become vice-president and president. And those that are accused are also brought up with such ambition. So, they have to clash. So, the fact that I can achieve it is not on the part of the platform of the PPP but on any other party. Don't, that I'm going to PPP when you're not going to PPP or go and achieve their aim in another party. What? The political officers have just started. All right, Mr. Kira. You'll see a lot of dynamics laid out. Opponabo, Inkotaria. Thank you so much for your time this morning. We hope to speak with you again. All right, stay with us. From the PPP, we're moving on to talk health and that is with regards COVID-19 vaccinations here in Nigeria. We're going to be having a medical professional join us to share his thoughts on of course, Nigeria's vaccination process. We'll be back.