 and welcome to Holistic Wellness Revealed. I'm Latisha Sharpe and I'm your host today as we welcome Dr. Melissa Wickey who is an acupuncturist, Chinese medicine, wellness, massage, Tai Chi practitioner and healer. Welcome, Melissa. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here with you. I'm so happy to have you and I can just, I really want to just say how much I love calling you a doctor. Having known you from when you were just a young massage therapist just out of school and working together so, so many years and actually a couple of decades ago. So congratulations on that now being well-established in that practice. And that's part of why I really felt that you would be one of my perfect guests to be able to talk about this subject and acupuncture. There's so much questions, so many questions around what this is for people and so many fears that are valid. They're valid fears and they also feel like there can be so much light brought to those fears if they're put in the right context. So I'm excited to be able to have this conversation with you and start this part one, we will have a part two and go even more in depth. So talk to me a little bit about how you were called to do acupuncture and what really sparked your interest to be able, because this is a long journey. Be able to talk about it. Yeah, okay. Well, let's see, I would have to say the beginning happened around when I turned 21. I think a lot of young people entering adulthood have these sort of awakenings and society doesn't really have a place to fit them into life. And I feel like back in the day, long time ago, there was always these rites of passage that would sort of honor these transitions in different life phases. And I just feel like I was due for one. And so part of my journey just created that for myself. And so I ended up actually getting a little bit out of whack, a little bit sick, a little bit not balanced in my mind and my body. And it took me a long time to kind of get my feet back on the ground, but I was guided to go to massage school and just putting my hands on people. Again, it sort of forced me to deal with a lot of things that I had inside of me. And I came to understand what empathy means. When you put your hands on somebody, you feel them, but you also feel everything inside yourself. And the only thing that kind of kept me going through it was just continuing to show up, even though it was so awkward. I felt so just out of place, awkward, I felt sorry for the people who had to have me as their therapist. But all of that is that sort of, that internal programming that, it's unconscious. You don't know where it begins, but little by little by little, I started to believe maybe I'm not as bad as I think I am. Maybe it's not as terrible. And then I started to believe maybe it's actually good. Maybe I can help people. So I was going to the University of Hawaii and I had decided to do pre-med basically, kinesiology with a focus of exercise, exercise science, wellness, lifestyle management. And I was set to go to medical school. And then as part of my curriculum, I had to take a Tai Chi class. And after I took the Tai Chi class, I just realized, wow, there is a lot I don't know. There's a lot I don't understand. And I was just drawn to it. And I wanted to know more about the way that the Chinese historically viewed things, in terms of health and wellness. And it really, really resonated with my way of understanding things. Instead of putting a magnifying glass on the disease, you zoom out and try to understand the relationships of all of the parts involved. And so Tai Chi practice helped me ground myself in my own body, helped me to smooth out turbulent emotions that would get in the way of my clear thinking. And it helped me to be able to just read and think and study and understand and it continues to. So after I graduated from UH, I went to the Institute for Clinical Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine in Chinatown in Honolulu, and that was a four year course of study. And then I moved out of Hawaii. Gosh, 2016 got licensed and opened up my practice. That's beautiful. So really what I hear you speaking to is how your own journey of healing is what brought you to this place of being able to provide this for others. Yes, I think ultimately anyone in the healing arts kind of has to operate from that point, right? It's like we're handed down these truths and all of these things to learn, but we still have to filter it through our own experience and understanding. And when you've been in a really low place in your life, you're able and come out of it, you can meet people there and reassure them. They're not alone and there's nothing to fear and you're gonna make it. Because you know, you did it, you believe in it. And speaking to Chinese medicine, having Qi, the concept of Qi be such a central component of Chinese medicine, understanding how acupuncture works and how things move inside. I feel like it has a lot to do with just our understanding of physical reality. There's like subtle energy and then there's dense energy in the Chinese medicine philosophy. It just takes into account the subtler things, that we may not be able to discern with our tools at this time, but they placed such a high value on inner feeling, inner hearing, inner seeing that when the origins of acupuncture and everything, like what came first? Like the points or the channels, how did this happen? People would sit in meditation and when you're really, really quiet, you feel things differently in your body. You can see things. And if it's a matter of survival, it's like I am quiet and nothing can hear me or feel me breathing, I'm probably not gonna get eaten by a wild animal or something, right? So I think it sort of unlocked a certain level of perception that is oftentimes not accessible today to most. So that was sort of the origin of it. And now it's up to us to rediscover that inside of ourselves. Yeah, and I mean, I like how, because on the show, a lot of the things that we discuss is holistic in the sense of all parts of ourselves being able to work together as a one whole being, as a one whole unit, a one whole human. And what you mentioned a couple of times now is the chi, which is energy, right? And that goes in all parts of ourselves. That's physical, that's mental, that's emotional, that's spiritual. And so how does that relate to the acupuncture? Like how does that, how can you find a way to make that tangible? Sure, well, when I was in school and we were learning all about, how do you generate chi? Basically, you have to kind of expand your perception of your organs and what they're capable of. It's not just substances, like there's functions and things that happen that are sort of magical no matter how much you break it down. But basically, your air from your lungs mixes with the energy in your heart and your blood to, it condenses and distilled into various kinds of fluid and energy and warmth in your body. And then your body's organizational systems, all the different channels, there's many different kinds, they go to different depths within the body. And then on the surface of the body is the channels and the acupuncture points which are the energy is more accessible. And so my teacher would say the most powerful points are between the elbows and the fingertips and the knees and the toes. And so in the classical literature, they'll describe the flowing of the energy from like a well to a stream to a river to a sea, as it moves towards the center of the body. And so it's interesting to think about that in terms of our breathing and our movements and how our mind is gonna influence the way that all of these things move and flow inside of our bodies. I don't know if that's the answer to that. No, that was a great explanation. I love how it was all water. So that's really easy to be able to visualize and to kind of grab on to, you know? Like, ooh, if you feel like that energy, the chi is water that's flowing and you can choose all different kinds of bodies of water, then that's really easy to be able to, even for someone just beginning who maybe hasn't ever even considered doing acupuncture. So that brings me to what are, you've mentioned organs and depths and levels. So when, and I want you to correct me if I've been saying this wrong for all these years, people ask me all the time, can, should I get acupuncture? Should I get acupuncture? And I'm like, sure, they're like, well, what's it good for? And I always say that acupuncture is, really works with the organs and that every part of our body, like every ailment or hurt or anything that's not in ease and in health is coming from some organ. I mean, even if it's your skin, right? So, is that how it works? I mean, I know there's two really big components. There's the herbal side and then there's the body side. And I know that they go together, but let's talk about the organ side. Sure, one of my favorite visuals for understanding organs and energy and the channels and everything is like a wifi router. Like each organ has like a network that it has to cover on the body. And so if the signal is strong and clear and unobstructed, there's like good range, good coverage, you can do everything. If it gets obstructed by cold or cold causes constriction, dampness, heaviness, bleminess can like block smooth transition. If it's too hot, things get crazy. It distorts the communication between the organ and the network. When we put acupuncture needles in to the points, it's making like a tiny injury in the body. And the body is so intelligent. It just knows, I'm gonna go to that place and I'm gonna check it out. I'm gonna fill up the hole and we're gonna make this better. Just that increased circulation can help to organize distorted patterns within the body. So oftentimes when there's superficial disruptions in the energy system that you may not even have any symptoms from yet, it can prevent them from penetrating into a deeper, more substantial layer of the body where you might have a symptom. So it's beneficial to get acupuncture on a semi-regular basis just to kind of keep everything communicating well. It's like just kind of flushing the system of distortion is kind of like how I like to think about it. Little lightning rods that just sort of, they channel and organize things. So that's great. And that brings it really modern, right? That brings us to our modern times of something that people deal with daily here in the United States anyways. So would you say that, so and you said maintenance basically is a good way to be able to keep those channels clear. And what if say I deal with a lot of people with injuries and for pain and is what part does acupuncture play in pain management? Certainly, no, that's a really good point because it's a huge part of what I treat as pain. The way I was taught pain equals stagnation. Some things not flowing, some things not receiving enough oxygen, waste are collecting, it's just not in the flow properly. When we put a needle in there, it can sort of disperse a stagnant area. And like how I mentioned before, it just sort of calls on all of the Biden systems to come and check it out and repair things. It will, the increased circulation will speed healing essentially. And it can a lot of times like, especially where I live now in the Pacific Northwest, it's damp and it's cold. So it's like when you're damp and cold, you kind of just wanna like curl up and you know, and your energy kind of does that on the inside. So a lot of people have cold hands, cold feet and stuff in. So when you do acupuncture out on the hands and the feet, it sort of brings people more deeply into their bodies so that the range of their energy is a little bit broader. But as far as pain goes, it's like the most tender places when I'm searching for what points to choose, I will just use my hands and palpate and then like ask people, okay, how's that? And usually it's like, there's a couple of collection points where in Chinese the word acupuncture point means hole. So it's these little holes in between the bones and the muscles and the tendons where things can accumulate. So that's why when you put an acupuncture needle there, it sort of has a bigger effect on the area around it, sort of like an eddy in a way. So it can disperse the stagnation and then reintegrate the area into the greater circulation, which will eventually make the pingo away. So. Because it brings the healing fluids that our body already has inside, right? Exactly. And on top of it, there's a million lenses that you could use to look at the process with, but it stimulates certain neurotransmitters in the brain that help relieve pain, essentially. So that's a really wonderful side effect as well. And there's a feeling of ease and relaxation that people describe when they get acupuncture that is different, a little different than the feeling of massage. It's a little different than the feeling of other things. And it helps people who might not really know too much about their energy. Oh, it just seems like woo or it's not real. But it starts, you start to build a relationship with how you feel, which is the beginning of self-healing, I think, when you really start to take stock of how you're feeling and refine and refine and refine how you feel. That's where it's at. More you understand and more you think. Yeah, broadening that awareness, that self-awareness. And it sounds like it almost has that, like anti-anxiety or that, it's affecting the nervous system in a way that is just so calming. Yeah, well, you think about heat, energy, anxiety, it goes up, right? It's like you're like getting out of your body and you just poke a couple of holes and then shh. Oh. All right, oh, I like that. It just sort of pisses out. Yeah, that's kind of how it is. And then once you start to understand, the way that you hold yourself in the day, the habitual postures you find yourself in and try to come back to neutral posture with your legs rooted, you know, you want a warm belly and a cool head. And if we can manage that, we're gonna be okay as we eat. It's when those get flip-flopped that we get all kinds of problems. That brings me to the actual, the organs. So like say somebody says that they have, chronic or even acute, I guess, but say they have something like an ulcer. Yeah. How could acupuncture, and I know it's getting super, you can't say generally for all people, but say something like an ulcer, they constantly have digestive issues or something like that. Those are actually two completely different things, probably. Well, it impacts digestion, impacts the way that you can make energy out of food if it's painful and uncomfortable. Well, the ulcer situation, you can definitely sort of like shunt energy to that digestive layer through acupuncture and just kind of help neutralize, you know, attention and distortion. But of course you have to talk to the person about how they're eating. A lot of times it's emotional. You know, there's the external factors like you're in a cold wind and it's damp and all this stuff. And then there's the internal factors, which is like, we're talking about organs here and there are other jobs. So they each have a responsibility to process a different emotion. So the lungs, they process grief and crying and sadness. And when we don't fully grieve, we can't fully breathe, you know? And then you end up not being able to have enough chi to do everything. You get kind of deficient over time. And then say the kidneys, they govern fear and like mastering the unknown. And you know, how do you respond? What are you afraid of, you know? Leaning into that, is it underlying everything that you do? You know, is there some tension that, you know? And a big one is liver, is liver processes anger. You know, and there's a place for anger. Like we need to feel angry about certain things. But if we feel angry about everything or it's just like out of proportion with, with a, you know, everything else, then it's really toxic. And so the liver really thrives with like exercise, action, doing physical discipline. And then it's, it can, it's responsible for the free flow of energy everywhere in the body. And so once, you know, the anger is processed, then you can get everywhere you need to go in your body and you don't get all caught up in the same, you know, self abusive patterns. What happens? Yeah, I love, love, love that you brought that forward. The emotional jobs of our organs and how those not being dealt with that can lead to some really serious issues and how tying that in with the energy of the spirit of the body, of the outside, the physical part and also our mental patterns of what we do and how that can all just plays a part of these more serious issues that can come up, that we see people dealing with all the time because it all has an origin, right? It's true. It's true. And when, you know, when you decide to kind of go down the path of self healing and doing things like, you know, you can get the diagnosis, whatever you still have to figure out what it means to you. You know, you can do everything that everybody says but it's like still you have to, there's a lot you can do. You have to start being able to be with yourself, you know? And that's the beginning. I think that's the thing that's scary for a lot of people is, you know, being alone with yourself. But, you know, when you have practice like Tai Chi or if you have, you know, a stillness practice where you start to allow your feelings to be felt fully then you develop great compassion for yourself. You know, it's just, it comes. And then that allows things to let go, you know? And this connection with the earth, you know, remembering our relationship with the earth through our posture, through our breathing, just remembering on a regular basis, it helps. You know, we're not just out here on our own. You know, we have all the support that we need. And we just need to learn how to take care of ourselves. So it's a complicated thing but it's also really simple. Yeah, it, I mean, I just, I really, I really enjoy being able to hear that because we talk a lot about that on this show too is being with ourselves and really recognizing who we are and how we are and loving ourselves through that. That's such a huge component to our healthy living basically, our healthy existence and being able to bring that essence forward. Also, there's that part that you were talking about where you're moving forward through this and you're finding these channels, not just on the outside but the inside to be able to just be able to break through to have these breakthroughs. And that's fascinating, that's fascinating. And also another thing that I want to highlight that you brought up, this is such an amazing point is really taking ownership of how you feel and it's really feels safe and easy to let somebody else tell us how we are. And a lot of people are looking for that and search all over, but I feel like what they don't get is that that's not you. What they're telling you isn't you. Like I can tell people that come to me day and night for 25 years that, oh, you need to work on this fear. And maybe if they look inside and they're like, actually, I'm really not afraid of that. I just did something completely different. What's a trauma of this and it's actually grief. I'd be like, oh my gosh, well, thank you for educating me. But just not succumbing to the other people's view of who you are, which is such an important reason to go inside like what you're saying. That's where it really starts. I feel that I feel it's a natural evolution of the spirit. I think the more we understand the more grounded we are, the stronger we are. And then it's just the natural sort of confidence in who we are and our inner goodness. It's what is shining through instead of all of the things that we're afraid of. Speaking of fear, I really wanna touch on this before we do the end of the completion of this episode. What about people who are so afraid of needles? Okay, so those of you who are afraid of needles, I want you to know the needles we use now are all single use, they're all, they come in a little package like this. Sometimes they're in a 10 pack and then look at how tiny that is. You can barely see it. You could fit at least 20 of these in the tip of the hollow, hollow tip hypodermic needles they give to shots. They're very fine pieces of wire, very, very fine. And it doesn't feel like pain. It feels like sensation. And sometimes you feel nothing, but sometimes you'll put a needle in one place and you'll feel it somewhere else. And then during the course of a treatment, you might have needles communicating. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. It's really, it's really strange. But it's something to experience and letting go of that fear and just having a little bit more openness about the experience of intensity. It doesn't all have to hurt. Some things can be intensely pleasurable. Some things can be intensely vibrating. There's a bunch of different ways. And the thing that happens when the needles are in for a while is that you just come back to homeostasis. You get back in the middle and the intensity comes and it levels out. And then the feelings change. And that's all we can hope for when we're not feeling good. That's what they change. So if somebody does have a fear of needles and they're okay with the sanitation portion, but they're just, they have this feeling where they just don't know why. They just are so afraid of needles. What would be your advice of how maybe something they can ask their acupuncturist or maybe something that they can talk to them about to be able to help them bridge that gap between the fear and finding that homeostasis? That's a great point. I think the most important thing is to find a person who your body trusts. You're in their presence. You feel comfortable with them. And you feel like there's a trust that you don't really understand, but it's there, you feel comfortable with them. That's the most important starting point for finding somebody who you'd like to experience acupuncture with. Because everybody has a different feeling. Everybody has a different understanding and a different style of practice. And everybody's, I like to think everybody's bringing the best of themselves to it, but we all respond to different personalities and approaches. So I think just you have to be willing to try and meet a couple of people. A really good thing to do, I think, is to go to an acupuncture school and go into the school's clinic because then it's a low-cost way to ask a bunch of questions. These students need to know the answers and it helps them. It helps the teachers teach. And then you get to see what a lot of different personalities and approaches are like. So I think the first thing is you have to be open. Open up a little bit and have safe that not all penetration is bad. Great. Well, we're getting to that time where this part one of our conversation is coming to completion. And I'm just, I'm so grateful for your time and for your knowledge and for just your candid nature of really sharing all of the ins and outs of this sacred healing art of acupuncture and how it can help on so many levels with our holistic beings. Thank you so much, Melissa, for joining us. It's my pleasure. Thank you very much for having me. I look forward to the next time we bring you on and have some more juicy content about acupuncture. Thank you. Thank you so much also to Think Tech Hawaii for providing this platform for us to be able to have these conversations and bring this information to our viewers. And thank you immensely to all the donors and sponsors for helping us keep this going until we meet again. Aloha and Mahalo.