 So thank you again for being here this evening. Tonight we are very excited to welcome Tom Amiano and Tim Redmond to the San Francisco Public Libraries virtual stage. I'm Kevin I'm a librarian from the Hormel LGBTQ center at the main library. And I'm going to start us off with some library updates and introduce our guests. And we do want to begin with a land acknowledgement. Welcome to the unceded land of the Aloni tribal people. We acknowledge the many Ramayotish Aloni tribal groups and families as the rightful stewards of the lands on which we reside. SFPL is committed to updating the name of these lands and community members from these nations with whom we live together. SFPL encourages you to learn more about first person culture and land rights, and we are committed to hosting events and providing educational resources on these topics. And we want to tell you about the library summer stride program. Summer stride is the library's annual summer learning reading and exploration program for all ages and abilities. Reading for just 20 hours over the summer gets you one of our summer stride tote bags featuring original artwork by Keelani Juanita. So go to our website for more information on summer stride or check the chat box for a link. And briefly to update you on some upcoming events at the library on June 23rd, which is tomorrow we have a book launch for neon, a light history, which is a brief, concise history of the neon sign covering scandals murder fascist and forgotten inventors. On June 27, in honor of Black Music Month, we recognize the achievements of African American musical artists who were born and raised in the San Francisco Bay Area. And on June 28, we have a book club featuring Brontes Pernell's 100 Boyfriends. 100 Boyfriends is the library special on the same page selection for Pride Month. And now on to tonight's program. We have had a lot of fun at the library promoting this event over the past month and getting to say kiss my gay ass in professional settings. We're sad that we won't get to keep saying that but we are excited that the moment has finally come to welcome Tom Amiano and Tim Redman. Tom Amiano's recent memoir is kiss my gay ass my trip down the yellow brick road through activism stand up and politics. It follows Tom from his arrival in San Francisco on a gray home bus through the flop sweat trials of professional comedy and deep into the halls of power at City Hall and the state capital. Tom Amiano is a legendary San Francisco leader who served the city for four decades as a teacher San Francisco school board president, president of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, and a member of the state assembly. In 1975, Tom came out as the first openly gay teacher in San Francisco. In 1987, he worked on the no on six campaign with Harvey milk, which successfully defeated an anti gay initiative to ban gay teachers in California. Also Tom has been a stand up comic since 1980 when he pioneered gay comedy night at the Valencia Rose Cabaret in San Francisco. Tonight Tom will be in conversation with Tim Redman. Tim Redman has been a political and investigative reporter in San Francisco for more than 30 years. He spent much of that time as executive editor of the big guardian, and he is founder of 48 hills.org. And I'm now ready to turn it over to Tim Redman. Thank you. Thank you so much Kevin. And thank you for having us here at the library. Tom and I are both really big fans of the San Francisco public library we were we were chatting before. We went live about, you know, my, I live in Bernal Heights, Tom lives in Bernal Heights, my kids were basically raised at the San Francisco public library and Bernal Heights. So thank you so much for having us and I went there. Look for boyfriends it was great. I love the life. I'm so sorry I said this event. So, let me start off Tom. You're the book is called kiss my gay ass but the intro, the dedication says to the gay left. Yeah. And I wanted to kind of ask you. Why did you decide to write this and you know at the time you wrote that you know what at the time you came out and you were in San Francisco and you started in politics the term intersectionality wasn't really a thing. So really, what I think one of the things that makes this book really important is you talk about the gay left, and you talk about all of the different causes that intersected with your emergence as a LGBT leader in San Francisco so talk about. And I remember also when we started this project you said there are so many stories there's so much of LGBT history in San Francisco that hasn't been told and it's not just the book is not just Tom on the other story. It's the story of LGBT history and a really critical time in San Francisco. So talk, I know that's a lot to throw at you but talk about why you did this project and why you dedicated your book to the gay left. Well, you know full disclosure, Tim is being modest to Tim and another friend of ours named John Gollinger sat me down and said you know you've complained about history being revised why don't you put down your history you know through your lens. And I owe them a great debt because the book is the result of them helping me out and recording me and you know I would say stylistically, the book is you know, conversational James Joyce light a little stream of consciousness. You know, but hitting home base every so often too. So I think that was the main reason I wrote it and again you know you were terrifically helpful but the reason I dedicated the book to the gay left is you know that the queer community you know is multifaceted. And I thought you know a lot of the policies that later became part of city policies you know came out of the gay left in terms of the civil disobedience and the taking on of corporate interests like Coors beer, all that and also calling out discrimination and trying to acknowledge all the other things that were happening in San Francisco kind of try to ride that, ride that pony because you know the women's movement was civil rights and anti anti Vietnamese war and try to be it not more. And I, I think the fulcrum for me, you know, coming out being gay and absorbing all that was happening very fast. And I think that's why I like public school teaching, because it really was a democratic process public education and San Francisco's diversity. There was a lot of challenges in public schools and there were tremendous amount of challenges so the kid who was in my special ed class, who really was a genius, but was categorized as being developmentally impaired. So why was that kid in that class and how do we change it. And I did get involved with the community efforts about that and then extended my ferry wings to what was happening in and around Castro Street, and made lots of connections and saw some and also ran into Harvey mill, you know, out there, making a speech or handing out leaflets, or try to write about all this in the book because it's, you know, it means it means so much to have been there and witnessed it so. And I think that side isn't always presented, you know, the movies and things, you know, for, for any of us, only give us a slice. So, I gave you my little slice with a little cherry on top, I hope. Yeah, you mentioned the gluten free gluten free. You mentioned the course beer boycott because we've actually, you know, there's, that was a pivotal moment in the intersection between the LGBT movement and labor. And it's still really important today I mean that that was, you know, when when the when I believe it was Alan Baird who first went to Harvey milk and said, Hey, we need your help with the course boycott and Harvey milk said, Hey, we'll go along but we need your help with getting some gay people hired to be teamsters talk to us about your experience with that. Yeah, well, you know, a lot of things I think are based on personality Alan's personality and Harvey's couldn't have been different, but they complimented each other, and they had a common focus. And that relationship today is still, you know, something we all remember Alan is now in his 90s. And I understand his birthday's coming up and I don't think he'll be watching this so I'm going to blow the whistle we're going to do a big surprise for Alan on on Friday cleave Jones is orchestrated this lovely tribute to him. That'll be very clear in its presentation and, you know, marching to his house and surprising him. So if I just blew it, you can kill me, you know. Yeah, well you know when you're when you're looking for things that might help you like how I'm no Harvey was probably thinking and other people around him. How do we you know how do we fix this how do we fix this. And you know people were some smart enough to connect the dots, and labor as an issue was something that there was a general interest in. And then we were be fast becoming if we weren't a labor town. And of course had such a bad record. And the thing about their bad record they didn't try to pink watch it or anything like corporations do today. They were proud of it. We don't hire Mexicans where I gave you all that must die. So there was that there was the intersectionality there was the no unionized course beer ripping off people and being junk by a lot of people. And then there was the homophobia. So they couldn't have it both ways. Although I understand some of their administration did. That's another story. So that that was lightning striking. It was good and from there, you know, everything else is connected to, you know, and where's where's the representation from the Asian community where's the Latinx where's the black there was. There was real issues with labor about that she knows, not every union somewhere progressive somewhere not. Harvey got them all though. He went to, you know, to those halls and spoke to these guys, you know, very masculine, the whole trip and he won and he won him over. You know why because he was real. You know, so he didn't always make the perfect speech. He could flood something. He could find of himself. He could connect. And he was different than some of the other straight lace people who came. Oh, I love labor. I pay my guards are 25 cents. You know, but so he really was a breath of fresh air. And then he was joined with other people to resolve team. I mean, let's talk about some other people. We've talked about Alan Baird and Harvey milk. In your book, you talk about a lot of heroes. And there are probably some who didn't make it into your book and you know, we can sitting here tonight. You're a hero to many, many people in the LGBT community, but also in the larger progressive community. A lot of us look at you as Tom is one of our heroes but you're also a humble person in the sense that you don't always promote yourself. Talk about who some of your other heroes are. Who are some of the people who you grew up with who you came out with who you worked with in politics, who you look back at now and say, these were heroes of the gay left. Who are who are those people tell us a little bit about them. But, you know, wrote up New Jersey that was kind of a desert for that, you know, you, you did what you did you were red meat on the Savannah in New Jersey and you had a loving family a family that was very, very funny. But this could get their heads around the gay issue and all of that. This is terribly complicated and I wanted out, but it did teach me through some negative experiences, bullies, etc. the name callings and all that. I did, I think do something about a resolve to maybe not take that, but first things first leave the leave the Savannah during the dry season. Don't go to the water hole. I didn't know much about politics, but it sounded like a place to go. And from there, just amazing. I went into as parents from the mission, who stood by me when I came out of the closet and refuted all the stereotypes about well, Latinos and Catholics and gays you know it's not going to. They were extremely protected. And, you know, some of those families that really were in poverty, doing everything they could for their kid and the school really was a place to eat, you know, free the free breakfast to have shelter to have a little day here after. Not perfect, but I mean the value of it goes very deep and there are people even then after that whole concept of public education and providing lousy, fulfilling prophecies, providing, you know, lousy education to kids of color. All these all these things and no money, no funds, no teachers union being trashed a lot. Oh, they still do that by the way. In San Francisco so something some change, but if you're in there for the fight. And sometimes it was from the beginning then it's very exciting. And it's also exciting to be young, because you can teach all day. And then go to a demonstration. And if you then maybe go to the disco, and then repeat that cycle. So God love us all. So talk a little bit about your early days and stand up comedy and I know the Valencia Rose was a key part of this and Ron Lanza, who we lost a few years ago, yeah, was a really key player in this. And so talk a little bit about your early days in stand up comedy. Well, I, you know, it's something I always wanted to do. And you know what, you're a guy that's funny in the moment. And you know where that came from, you know, who knows the DNA and, and a lot of marinara sauce and a good thing. We don't know. But I know part of it came from fending off the disparagement and the name calling in the same you know, if you, especially if you're from New Jersey. If you have a good put down real fast and repose, you maybe will not get the punch, but it will be so often because somebody's laughing it. And I always wanted to do it professionally. And you know, I think we all had a little dream so we were kids. And I loved the TV and the comedy shows that were on then, you know, Milton Murrell and Bob Hope and well then Phyllis Diller. I loved comedy and when I came to San Francisco, I pursued something else I pursued teaching and trying to acclimate to San Francisco culture, which was a trip. And then you know finally getting a deeply involved you know with the queer movement and, and of course teaching. And I still had that little hankering. And I ran for school board. Long story, and I lost really terribly. But I said to myself, now that I'm almost 40, what could be worse. I'm going to try stand up and been doing it ever since in waves, I guess you could say, but I've always been grateful that I could do it. And it was same same. There's a lot of fucking homophobia. A lot of the comics were gave straight white males. It was hard for women. It was hard for comics of color. It was, it was hard. And you can, you can tell fag jokes, but you couldn't be a fag telling the jokes. And through a perfect storm and Ron Liza and Hank Wilson, Donald Montwell, a place called Valencia Rose was born. We went to the frontiers were no other men or gay people women went, we said we're going to do comedy and it just kind of went from there. And we started to get gigs here and there and the stray clubs are still very difficult to get gigs they didn't want you to, they didn't want you to do anything gay on stage. I mean I walk out and so anyway that that struggle also, you know taught me a lot and a lot of things and all my, all my county was political. So it kind of was confluent with my, you know, paying attention to what was happening in San Francisco and then I decided that it was time to run for the school board for a lot of reasons. The LGBT stuff was not happening. School board members are coming to the gay clubs and the gay clubs are kissing their straight ass, and then nothing would happen there'd be no LGBT sensitivity. You know, bullied, you know, so it came together and I ran for school board and, you know, started to make inroads in what had been, you know, a pretty thick wall of homophobia and I think we all know the script. And so, I went into the board of soups. I like government. There was a performing aspect to it. And, you know, maybe I could have a bully look for my ideas wasn't hearing too much about him. It wasn't easy. When you started on the when you're first elected to the school board. When you're talking about LGBT issues, and you're talking about I'm old, I remember these days as a reporter, when you know talking about gay kids in the public schools, which when you were elected to school board. Really people weren't talking about they weren't talking about LGBT youth they weren't talking about issues facing gay they weren't talking about homophobia in the school so you get elected to the school board, and you come on there, and it wasn't easy talk about some of those early struggles. And addressing issues that issues that we think down with, you know, do you have any LGBT curriculum, are there any out teachers, can we have an in service for this I mean, all little building blocks, so that you're present in the school without penalty. And, you know, I mean everyone called the shit caused the shit storm. He wanted to start you know we we got it and LGBT counseling and, you know, people hold the whole setup for a program. And the head of the PTA said, Miss, this is sex abuse. This is akin to sex abuse to have, you know, that was just the beginning and get and then the Boy Scouts, you know, and then our friendly dailies eviscerated me in multiple, multiple editorials. Some of them are funny, they didn't mean to be funny. So, but there was always that core that constituency that I knew of that put me there. That I owed. And then I wanted to be a voice for that, you know, that gets you through a lot of stuff. Plus, you know, wow, wow, wow. You know, you just got elected. There's a little bit of gravitas, regardless of the behavior of your colleagues. And frankly, for me, somebody like me, from my background, and gestalt all of it to be get elected publicly. That's it. I don't know that said something to me about where I could be taken by the people who supported me because, you know, that was the whole deal. The conduit. You talked a little bit about the media and the mainstream media coverage of you. I know when I want you to talk a little bit more about this when you were on the school board. When you stand up comedy, Chronicle was always looking for ways to undercut you. Can you talk to us a little bit about that and what that looked like? Yeah, I mean, you know how it is that they look for distractions when a lot of the real issue is homophobia. So the fact that I did comedy, actually to pay to rent because you know that doesn't pay very much on the school board. You know, I continued my career, I continue to get gigs. So they went after that as a weapon, you know, they weaponized it as they say today, that how inappropriate I was. And you know, I was not what one would call a clean comic. I mean, please. They assigned a reporter to follow me to my gigs and then she would diligently write an article with a very biased head live and tell the bluest of my jokes. And also, and I asked him, what do I do about that? We were just getting to know each other. You know, what do you do when a journalist does that? And, you know, Tim wisely said, nobody who's jealous wants to be involved in the story. Nobody. And so the next time she did it, was at some club in San Jose. I acknowledged her, I said, Oh, Nanette, how are you? And she had a little note pad and she looked around there. I thought that was you, buddy, you're an all. Anyway, a moment, a little shot in Floyd. Well, our papers are, you know, in no way left liberal when it comes to, you know, housing and development, we know that. And they didn't like anyone who rocked the boat. And I think when, thanks to people like Calvin Welch and Kay Patchner, and who was the fellow who died, the original for the district elections. Really, I'll think of it, senior moment here. But, you know, thanks to them. We got district elections. And that really helped with the diversity and also the balance, you know, if you went to a park in Pacific Heights, it was meticulous. You could eat, as my mother would say, you could eat off the floor, but you went to a park in a mission and it was disaster and sometimes dangerous. So I think that changed the temperature a lot, district elections. We're going to talk more about that in a minute, but I have to shift gears for one second. Of all the things that you wrote about in your book, the one that has gotten the most kind of national media traction is diversity of the letter. And I know you're probably at this point really sick of talking about diversity of the letter, although you are wearing the Immaculate Conception colors. Yes, and I anticipated I, you know, I don't know how this works, but if you can see the letter. We've got your sweater there. Yes. I was aggrieved in high school because I qualified for a school letter, and it was denied to me by the same group of people who give me a few rabbit punches call me names and all that so it was kind of obvious why I didn't get that letter and I told that story in the book and was interviewed on the radio and a listener, someone I don't know, took up upon himself to let this school know about this incident that happened 63 years ago. And the school responded extremely generously. And times have changed girls and boys and went up and and got the redemptive letter and and and sweater. Based on that phone call and then the telling in the book, and that gentleman's name is Steven Saxon. He's a Catholic. He's Jewish. He's not gay. He's straight. He's a musician and he's a canter and think this concept Jewish concept of tikkun alum, which is basically, you know, being a man, you know, looking out for your fellow man. I think, you know, that was part of his part of his reasoning and making this phone call. You know, we were we were strangers. But you know, Tom, we you and I talked about this yesterday when we were talking about this program. So about a week after ESPN of all places ESPN. And I was there in your house when ESPN came over and they did this whole thing and they did a seven minute segment on a sports program about this story. And about what it meant. And guess what seven days later, Carl Naseeb becomes the first member of the I still call him the Oakland Raiders. It's actually the. Yeah, it's hard. But I still call him the Oakland Raiders. And, you know, I was an Oakland Raiders fan when I was a little kid in New York, many, many years ago. But Carl Naseeb comes out as the first openly gay NFL player and we were talking about like coincidence, maybe. But when you were talking about this story and your varsity letter you talked about the last closet. And, you know, the fact that a in women sports, there are lots of players open, happily celebrated and but never in men's sports. So now, Carl Naseeb, it's when he when he came out now all of a sudden there's there's actually immense support. You know, the Raiders coach says I heard a long time ago that what makes a man different makes him great. Hey, you know, how are things that think about like 63 years ago you couldn't get a varsity letter because they thought you were gay. Today, in a lot of circles we're celebrating a gay NFL player. We've come a ways Tom there's a lot way to go a long way to go but talk about those connections and and do you think maybe Carl Naseeb saw the ESPN. Oh, we're both we're both chocks now. Exactly. I mean he's six he's six seven. Yeah, I think I'm five three now I don't know. Yeah, no, I'm a goat. I said I was a goat gayest of all, case of all times. No, and you know it's poignant to because you know years ago there was an African American ball player Glen Burke, just the subtlest of guys and you know he came out and didn't not didn't work. Let's just say didn't work out and he had 15 minutes of sad story fame here in San Francisco and died and not pretty death but I noticed the ace and dedicated their opening game to him so there's there's some progress there too and then I was at a Giants game part of a ceremony you know honoring pride and we're honey mahogany saying the National Anthem. So that that would that was really super cool. And yeah, great job. Oh my god. She crushed it. And I got to talk to get the manager there. You know Gabe and I, as I say in all his hotness. And I said you know it's time. You know, you're raising the trans flag over at Oracle Park you're honoring you know me or having honey sing and honoring. It's time for you know not just one but more than one players. So of course he agreed. But you know, baseball needs to wake up to you know, they're a little more conservative even. And of course I think you know what we came across in the video with him is, you know, how smart he is very smart and how he presented. I think he was prepared that's why I think he had gotten his ducks in a row. No fool he and it was for everything's timing. Let me let me talk more about timing. So you talked about district elections, and the folks who brought us district elections, which we lost for a while but then it came back and in 2000. You were. The Amiano slate. It was, it was Tom Amiano going around and recruiting candidates and putting together a group that got elected that really did change the tenor of San Francisco. Yeah, for better or for better or for better. Yeah, you know, for better represents. Yeah, more represents. Yes, system. Yeah. Politics isn't perfect. But so you got on the board of supervisors. He was the mayor. He's not always on board with everything you're doing, but you're able to accomplish a lot. And one of the things that I think is part of your legacy is healthy San Francisco. And you know, before we could talk, we were talking about national health care and single payer, you got it done in San Francisco. So talk to us a little bit. I think you'll be the first to say that Gavin Newsom is happy to take credit for things that other people did but talk about how you've got healthy things San Francisco through. Well, you know, I did was it something that I had always been concerned about like a lot of people, especially my age now, our parents had no health coverage health coverage was for the rich, you could go to a clinic. And the clinic was, you know, pretty shoddy. So, both of them had health problems that would not, you know, were not addressed in the, in the way they should be and so. And my father was a camp driver and there was no benefit, even after he died on the job. So I took that with me to the board I guess and then my age taught me a lot to, you know, seeing people not to getting the top care that they could get and many, many, many, many things and then connecting it again to what kind of health care to black people had what kind of health care to the undocumented So let's do something about it because it wasn't going to happen and in Sacramento or in Washington yet. It was highly motivated and, you know, we went for it. Got so much support from labor, very much. So, and of course, the usual pushback. But, you know, from the restaurant industry, particularly they were they were vicious. Well, I won't go into but they did. They did a lot of nasty stuff, including kicking me out of the restaurant. And, you know, knew some I think you know was wavering but you know this was his. So was there was a lot of drama around it but we were able to craft something that you know if you are a resident of San Francisco and that doesn't mean citizen, but a resident of San Francisco, you have access to health care. And, you know, pre existing conditions and mammogram, you know, so the thing I feel good about is that for one time there was some unity on the left, some unity, even with labor some unity with the community. So, again, these perfect storms that happen, and about intersectionality the, the COVID epidemic, as we know now hit the Latinas community really, really hard. And a friend of mine who's a nurse said the percentage is really high of infected people. And here, there are 75 people who are showing symptoms, and they have no insurance. And so healthy San Francisco covered that. So that's really cool. So, of course, we all need to have that, you know, so many, many single payer. So many, many things you accomplish. Let's um, I know this is this is, you know, not your favorite thing but let's move to Sacramento. Where, where you became a member of the state legislature and you had to struggle with homophobia, you had to struggle with Democrats who were very, very moderate to conservative Democrats. But let's just, for fun, tell everybody, how'd you come up with the title for this book? Where did that come from? Well, we were at a large event, a Democrat liberal left event, celebrate labor, celebrating a lot of things, commiserating that we lost because the governor was such a schmuck. And this governor's name was Arnold Schwarzenegger. Such a lovely man, you know, not even the Republicans there liked him. They once wore name tags, so they, he would know who they were. The way he governed was, you know, I guess you could say by fiat. So, of course, we didn't get along. And he had vetoed gay marriage bill. And if you're familiar with Prop 8 and all that, if he had not vetoed that bill, you know, a lot of the cause that I would have not happened in the way it happened. So, and he knew better and he actually got the advice of somebody gay about that. So, you know, how tangled the web we weave. So, he showed up at this dinner I think Willie Brown thought it might be cute that he say a few words and this is the guy who vetoed gay marriage vetoed every labor bill and farm worker, you know, what a misjudge of what happened stance I don't know what who was smoking what, but he got up there and he immediately people went crazy they started to boo and stand up and throw their napkins. And I joined the chorus with kiss Mike as and you can't do anything anymore right everything is recorded. So it made it made somewhat of a splash. I think it's a good. I think when the media said, Are you going to apologize I said no, I say that today to know he should apologize. Fuck that. Anyway, a big, big salute to my staff who feel that all the phone calls. They deserve they deserve every positive thought possible. But you made some progress in Sacramento. Yeah, even with that. Oh yeah. Sometimes just in blocking bad bills and sometimes in promoting good bills. Tell us about some of your adventures in Sacramento and what you look back in a positive way. Well, they, well, it was good always to thwart the NRA. You know, the way it worked you know there was more Democrats on my committee I was the chair and then you whip them and so when the NRA came in and they were so serious, and went on and technical. You know, I take my three year old, you know, shooting with me so don't, you know, allow us to buy more bullets and so one time the guy got so frustrated with me he said, Mr. Have you ever shot a gun I said no. And he said, Why don't you come with me to a shooting range. And I said, Are you asking me out on a date. Yeah, I took care of that. Yeah, that we did as much as we could to around restorative justice. You know, again, you know, working with the different caucuses, black caucus, Latino, you know, Asian to, you know, make sure that what we were doing could really like help all of us. And sometimes that, you know, sometimes that worked, and it definitely worked with the immigration movement. And you know we were, and you know that was fraught with fractions and pushbacks and betrayals and all of that, but it was a movement see so it wasn't necessarily the legislative process was more elevated and more intrinsic. You know, we were we Jerry Brown actually signed it, little reluctantly a little fact he vetoed it the first time, but it basically did as much as we could in those days containing ice, and their practice of their practices of racial profiling. You know, one of the things, Tom, you've always said that I think sets you apart from a lot of elected officials, not all, but a lot of elected officials is that you always said, It's not about you it's about us. It's not about Tom Amiano it's about it's about it's about the movement. It's about, and you led as a leader, but you led with the idea that you listen to the grassroots. You listen to the people who put you in office, and you tried to let the agenda be set by them can you just talk about that for a couple minutes. Yeah I mean that I mean actually you know that part felt good. I mean at first you know people were so during the age crisis when I, you know, got together with the A's activists, especially around Kaiser. If you remember Kaiser equals death man was what it was a bad situation when when I got elected. They came in and they said, Nobody else would talk to us. I couldn't believe that. At the time, I couldn't believe it. Nobody we try to set up meetings. So, I mean you got to feel good. Well let's let's go girls. Let's, let's hit the road with this shit. And that I learned from Harvey I think you're talking about Bernie in some ways to. If it comes natural just you know go with it was that it was such an honor to actually have this happened. And it is a swamp and it is poisonous. And there is too much money way too much money, there should be no money. But even when I make fun of it they were very smart people, very good people. You know, I was, I was glad to get to know them even if I wanted to push them in front of a muni. We have some questions I'm going to take q&a in just one minute but I want to ask you before we get to the q&a we've only got 15 minutes left. You in 2000 went out and recruited a lot of candidates to run for the board of supervisors. And you have worked many, you know one of the main, one of the huge impacts you've had on local politics is mentoring new candidates and finding people who should and could run for office. You know, whether it's Kimberly Alvarenga or David Campos or Hillary Ronan or so many others going back I mean, you know, going back to some people who drove you crazy later but Aaron Peskin and Jake McGoldrick and so many people who you mentored and brought. It's like being a parent, right it is but you and sometimes they drive you crazy but talk to me for a minute now. There was an aspect of that that was thrilling for the moment, you know, the really reversal. Really brown all the Democratic seven were really pissed off. It wasn't supposed to happen. Who were these Willie Brown call this the panty waste, do you remember. Oops, may every one of his candidates get got beat everyone. But I'm not. I'm not bitter. But Tom so let's take that forward okay. I'm going to talk to supervisors in the next 10 years. California legislature in the next 10 years. At some point, Nancy Pelosi is going to retire. Oh yeah, who are you and you have to name names but what kind of who are you looking for in the next generation of political leaders in California. What do you want to see? Well, you know, I mean, yeah. I mean, to me, I would prefer, you know, someone who's left and not beholden to corporation or money. You know, friend, Pilar Shiava was running for assembly in Southern California and she pledged not to take any money. You know, those to me are barometers, you know, know everything has happened. I've talked to people, and I thought okay, this is good and you know I'd like to help you, and they got elected for you know this, but that's going to happen. Anyway, but mostly this the gate are the sixth sense. And I don't mean the candidate has to be gay. You know, it's a judgment call it strikes you the right way and your endorsement either helps or drown their drowns in my guess but, and I do look out for people, not on but in meetings, or see their names. Jackie comes to mind. Yeah. And she's, she's doing great. And there's definitely more Jackie's out there too. Let me, let me go to questions. And Peter Tannen asked what inspired you to go into teaching but I'd also, and while you talk about that. Take a minute to talk about coming out as and you were the first out gay teacher in San Francisco and then you had to deal with the Briggs initiative. So can you talk a little bit about what inspired you went to teaching and then, you know, struggling against that. I went at camps for the disabled, and that gave me contact with you know groups of kids young people, and there was a dynamic there I think I liked. And then you know candidly, a lot of working class people people look towards certifications, you know that my provide security and all that I wasn't above that I was, you know, 20 years old. So I thought teaching special ed would be something that I'm, you know, would be very fulfilling. And that I would be good at. And mostly that that that was true. And there were a lot of challenges that all teachers face from that day, you know, not enough funding and, and lots of racism within the school district and no bilingual and of course homophobia. Hello. Homophobia in the teachers rooms, then I did. And some of those are from gay teachers, you know. But I got a lot out of teaching a lot. And I learned a lot. And I would say mostly not not book learning, but you know this variety of backgrounds that we have in San Francisco and how things work. If that answers your question and never coming out. When you came out as a gay teacher, Tom, you, you, you got a lot of support from the parents from the community. Other teachers at that point but you know talk a little bit that you know you you talk in your book about how everybody worried Oh the you know that people in the community are going to support a gay teacher but that wasn't the case. No, and, you know, you know, mostly at that time is before busing to so it was a neighborhood school. So you know I lived right around your shop well but it was well that whole. And that was quite beautiful. There were examiner printed a picture of me I look like Abbie Hoffman, you know, on a very, very big day. And but the story was more positive believe it or not Jim Wood, a great journalist now gone. And so the parents came in they said, we cut the picture out. You know that and we put it on a refrigerator. You know, remember I had taught there too for seven years. I mean they knew me, whatever they knew they knew. And they, you know, we had had a I had a good rapport with the parents was very lucky that way. I had energy I had energy just going to say it. There's a lot of people who are asking about your writing campaign for mayor. Can you talk a little bit about what was going on in 1999, why you decided to do that and you know what that meant I mean this was a moment, and I could very much argue that the class of 2000, the district supervisors who moved in a much more progressive direction that they were a result of that 1999 campaign. Yeah. Why you decided to run for mayor as a write in and how that all came about. I really, you know, there was a time when people were talking about it. Yeah, an actual run. And it went just so far. I was extremely ambivalent. First of all, it was really brown. All right, there was that. And there are other things I wanted to do. But I really saw, you know, really brown, you know, as a politician as well, you know, taking over the board by people leaving and then him giving them a carrot and giving them a job somewhere else or running for assembly. And, you know, pretty soon it was everybody was appointed by Willie fucking Brown, except beer man myself and myself and Leland Leland. So, it just wasn't working. None of it and I knew district had an appeal for me and you know that the park was a good example because you can really see the difference in parts in different neighborhoods, but the schools were a whole other thing. You know, you know, I got radicalized by all the inequities that I school school district and tracking kids and, you know, no appreciation of diversity and a principal who lived in St. Francis would and said no, all the women have to wear hose and all the men have to wear ties. So I wanted to wear hose one day but you know, was early in my teaching career. So I mean all that, I think came together and you know I think Labor to play the part, because, you know, the salary was really poor. Nobody who wants to be a good tea and nobody wants to be, you know, a millionaire but you want a living wage and it was far from that. You know, you know, the benefits are minimal minimal, you know, and maybe you saw some of the same people after a while in the same in the same rallies and stuff and got to know them and and that 1999 campaign that was run out of correct me if I'm wrong Ron Lanz's smoothie shop. Yes, was called. It was called, I'm going to say Josephines. Yeah, and you know, it was an extension of the Blanche Rose closing and that's all the comedy stuff and then the community stuff and so that point in time boom, there's Josie's cabaret and it was pretty popular. I mean, we nickel dined everything too. And it was a good performance base in all. And Ron had been such a wonderful friend and knew me through thick and thin said, you know, I like to make Josie's your campaign take orders. I said, Well, we're not even there yet but we'll do it. Yeah, so the big piece I forgot was, I did not run. People were disappointed. And then during the second or third week of the campaign. It was a Clint Riley, Willie Brown and Frank Jordan, and some people continue to freak out and say why did you drop out why did you drop out. And I said, All right, let's figure it out. You can do a write in and they had to count them. And that's where the idea came from. I think Willie Brown and his people probably thought other people stood around hired consultants did spreadsheets, you know, all that. No, just came intuitively and never regret it but man it was intimidating. That was Hank Wilson who who went out and organize that campaign to Gabriel Holland and Jerry feet treat and so many people I'm forgetting Juliana. Yeah, it was a wave of. I think progressivism and kind of populism that you know we want that kind of optimism. And I think San Francisco benefited from it. There's no question it that 1999 campaign galvanize the left in San Francisco politics in the way that nothing else I've ever seen in my almost 40 years of covering local news media did. Ashley says I was one of the volunteers that helped set up the Mac computer network and file maker pro database at Josie's juice joint. I haven't seen the documentary on it yet. But thank you Ashley. That was quite a thing you know everything was up to me newest about computers and if you remember Brad Benson. You know my legislative 80, and then you had a con computers because you had no money. And then some techies came forth believe it or not. And they set up as I had no idea. I thought it was how, you know from 2001. We're almost out of time. Yeah, turn it back to Kevin and the library in a moment but question from YouTube. In the movie milk you were shouting at bricks. Was this fictional or based on real life back in 1978. It was real life it was the reality. They they cast me even though I was like 40 years older. And I wanted to be back lit. So he just said do it just be who you are you know I just looked at how I looked. And that actually did happen. I did yell at the cops I did yell at bricks. Shame shame shame get out of here what do you think you are. And the cops actually came up to me they didn't have that in the movie, and we're like, you know, you might bust you what do you want. I said he wants my job and he wants you gay policeman gay policeman where are you. I'm still alive. But that that was real. Yeah, definitely was real. Well listen. Thank you so much. Tom for taking an hour and thank you to Kevin and the San Francisco public library for making this happen. If you go into the chat, you can find out where you can request kiss my gay ass from the library. You can purchase kiss my gay ass from 48 hills dot org. I, you can. There are local bookstores in town that have copies. I know that dog ear books in the Castro still has copies left, but I just want to thank everybody for being here tonight we have. 90 participants that is so exciting and thank you so much to the public library Kevin I'll let you take it from here. Okay, thank you both Tom and Tim so much for that great conversation thanks to the audience for all your participation and questions. And that was really fun thank you so much and yes please buy the book and we'll see y'all next time thank you. I was thinking of a mobile bookstore with margaritas. Little marketing. All right, thank you so much. It was my pleasure really. Thanks everybody.