 Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of Red Hat Summit 2023 here in Boston, Massachusetts. I'm John Furrier, Rob Stretcher, bringing down all the analysis here in the news, our next guest Jeremy Winter, Corporate Vice President of Azure Cloud Native and Hybrid at Microsoft. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to be here. So you're up on stage with Stephanie. Yeah, yeah. Let's break down what you were on. What was it like up there for you? What was the topic? We'll break down what you guys talked about. Yeah, I think really what the main topic we were trying to really land for everyone is just this relationship that we have between Microsoft and Red Hat. And it's just a longstanding relationship that we've had over the course of the last eight to 10 years, but it's continuing to grow in importance to us on both sides of the fence. And I think what's really interesting on that is really this notion of the shared customer. And this is the key that I continue to see all every day with our customers is Microsoft customers are Red Hat customers and vice versa and ensuring that the success of those two relationships is important to us for our customers ultimately. Yeah, one of the things that Microsoft has been so great at over in the history of the company has been that North Star of developers, right? And the ecosystem of developers is now driving the change. And if you look at anything that becomes de facto that the developers are driving it in open source and you're starting to see massive growth. Kubernetes, containers, obviously hot cloud native services. And it's kind of going all the way into the cloud up and down the stack. As you've seen many cycles of these waves, how do you peg this one? Well, I think this one, there's two big dynamics I'm seeing just listening to the question that I see popping. First is cloud, which is also part of what we mentioned in the keynote is. The cloud really is the strategic bet that everyone is taking right now and where they're seeing just growth, both for how they modernize their approach, how they modernize their skilling of their organizations, but it's also just the existing infrastructure that's there. The second one, as you mentioned, is open source and this cloud native energy is really centered on open source and Kubernetes and the Linux communities. And this is just where I think this partnership, again, going back to the enterprise customer really fits us well and why we're so both jointly committed to it. Yeah, I think that's the thing that gets me is that you must hear it all the time, right? I mean, 10 years ago, this was probably unthinkable about how much open source there is at Microsoft. And I think what surprises your customers, your joint customers when you go out there and have those discussions. Yeah, I think one of the things that I just, even though I was just thinking of the customer conversation we had yesterday was just the shared, I'm serious about the shared commitment here. The fact of it was just this conversation of you can call Microsoft support and get to Red Hat or you can call Red Hat support and get to Microsoft when we're thinking about those shared joint engineering we've done with Ansible or this OpenShift work we've done or even on RHEL. We really have connected the two systems and the companies together. But here's what I think is really interesting to go back to this cloud and this other surprise is clearly we're seeing the enterprise customer look to Red Hat and Microsoft as two, as I'd say, almost the important vendors that they're betting with for their strategic compute fabric of the future. Whether it's on-prem or in the cloud, these two have really, really popped over the course of the last, I'd say, two or three years for sure as these both cloud and Red Hat have come into the picture. Yeah, I mean the change and the alignment with Microsoft and the growth of the industry has been phenomenal. I remember we interviewed Satya Nattela before he was CEO on theCUBE at Stanford University and he was on the infrastructure side. And one of the things he did, I thought was a really compelling moment was he open sourced a lot of their proprietary infrastructure to the OCP, open compute foundation. And that was the beginning of open and building the ecosystem to the new way. And I think open source here is the same for you. Absolutely, we have teams that are dedicated to it. Even on my own space, we have teams that are focusing just on upstream components into the Kubernetes. We've had many projects that come in through that space. We've even taken aspects of teams like the Kinvope team that came and joined Microsoft are still very much engaged in bringing their components like Headlight and stuff up into the community. So I just think it's just a, for us, Microsoft, we are continuing to go drive up into the community, stay engaged in the community, stay on board with the Linux Foundation, the CNCF. What's your view on the cloud native version of the security equation? Because you guys have great security business at Microsoft, in and of itself. But the cloud native shift left movement has been big. And the software supply chain is super important. Developer productivity is banking on this. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we have upstream open, we have work we've been doing upstream for the secure supply chain. But more importantly, the shift left is going to happen and you want it to happen. And so it's how do we take governance, security and these other components and shift them up into the developer pipeline? And that's really where we're spending the time putting that work up into the developer pipeline, both with our Azure tools, but you see also the work with Red Hat doing that and OpenShift and what they're doing in the development tool space in there. The number one question that I hear and I want to ask and people want to know about is, the real question is, can I get a discount on open AI tokens? You guys, we're seeing our limits. Everyone's in the AI side of the house right now. Nvidia and Microsoft Azure, the two most, can I get a graphics card? Every Nvidia employee says, if someone asked me for another graphics card, I'm going to jump. No, but since you guys have a great relationship with open AI and the Bing server, that's obviously on your infrastructure side cloud at Azure scale, that's changed the game. What's your perspective? You can pinch me a moment here at Microsoft. It's like, oh my God, look at this. I mean, there's no question that AI has really changed how a lot of us are thinking about even our daily jobs and daily lives. This technology and our bet with open AI and ChatGPT is that partnership is really, really important to us strategically and why we've spent the time with the companies there. If I take that from a macro perspective, which we've all seen, and let's drop it down into, say, Azure itself, we're absolutely committed to ensuring that we can power those AI workloads, whether it's your natural language or your ML models, we're there making sure that the need for high performance computing AI models can operate right on Azure. So we're really focused on that key piece. But if you drop it a layer deeper, you have from an AI perspective, it's going to change the way we think about the operating environment. When we think about Azure and some of the work we're doing in that front, the ability to put natural language onto deploying to how to actually troubleshoot the systems that are there. This is going to be profound for how we actually think about it. And you'll see a lot of the work we're doing at Microsoft with the notion of co-pilots and co-pilots inside Azure are a key element that you'll see continue to go down the line. I think that's really interesting because I think when the announcement of a code assistant was earlier with an Ansible, actually the meeting spot is Visual Studio, which is really interesting that there's multiple models coming together. Absolutely. And I think this is key when you saw in the keynote today just this Ansible and the notion of AI. This is again really to help just bring that technology to simplify that in for Red Hat. And I think that's again just going to help both with the Ansible and the OpenShift momentum that's coming down the path. And we were talking Matt Hicks earlier about the leaked Google memo that came out around open source and that movement, how much stuff has come out of the meta-leak, so-called leak, and then just the contribution of code, OpenAI has now donated some of their large LLM to open source. The open source movement is going to, it's moving very fast with AI. Yeah. And things are being refactored. I saw a tweet the other day that said, why doesn't someone build Virtual Studio for prompt engineering? Yeah. So you've got more of this, the mindset shifting. Where do you see the refactoring coming from AI? Because are you going to be refactor something or a startup will take your lunch and existing someone? This is the market that you have these big waves. There are winners and losers. There'll be winners who ride the wave right. Some will get washed away. Well the beauty of the community and the open source is you have to use the brightest minds from around the world to contribute and really make the movement happen. And I think that's what we've seen with Linux and what we've seen in other aspects. And so you're going to, of course you're going to see that happen in the AI space. I think the refactoring is going to really come down to companies that are willing to take the bet to really go look at how to help innovate some of those tasks that AI fits extremely well into. Cloud computing, your infrastructure management, deployment, your software, those are ripe for being able to leverage and speed up the work that's happening in that space. So we can go on to do more harder problems with the resources and talent that we have. Yeah, Rob and I were at KubeCon EU, we were at Open Source Summit in Vancouver just recently and we were asking everybody, impact of AI, this wave's going to come. Will it topple open source? That was our question, of course. We kind of knew the answer. It might shake and rattle things a little bit, but it's going to be more, a lot of growth. But the consensus generally is amongst infrastructure nerds and business people is, it's just another tool. But they really, they don't want hallucinations because that's the chat GPT version of all the hype. Yeah, but infrastructure, you need to be secure, declarative, and on point, what's your reaction to that? And I think that, of course, infrastructure needs to be secure and declarative. You need to be able to go to that infrastructure as code type model, but I do see AI has a place for it. And it's going to take some time, but I think it will help all of us be smarter in how we actually run our apps, deploy our apps, develop our apps, and troubleshoot our apps. And I think it's going to be out to those breakthroughs. Like you're seeing what we do with co-pilot or red hats adding with what they're doing in Ansible and OpenShift, that these are really going to help separate and ease the work for the teams. I guess my question, I'll rephrase it to say, what are the low hanging fruit use cases that you see that people are going to jump on? You mentioned configuration. I think config, deploy, and troubleshooter. You're going to be some of your most fast ones that are out there. I think, heck, I can remember when I was writing code where I'd have to write the same tables over and over again or the same functions as I was working through, and that could just be done now for me. And it gets me onto the hard parts of the logic. Humans plus AI is better than AI. I think, I hope, we'll see. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Any, put a plug in for what you're working on, Azure. Share with the folks what's happening. Yeah, inside, you know, with me inside Azure, clearly I'm working with the red hat side of the house. This is a key investment for us as part of our cloud native energy. I also have inside the house, not only do we have the red hat work that's going through, I also have Azure Resource Manager that's inside there, and then we have some of the other cloud native work like Kubernetes. So, let me think about it as red hat, Linux, Kubernetes, and the overall Azure Resource Manager. And build is happening this week in Seattle. Build is this week, it's keynote starts today. And so you'll see a lot of what we're doing with our developers, how we're thinking about AI with the developers, what are we doing with our developer tooling and some of the new application systems that are coming out. Well, we'll see you at CNCF probably, KubeCon. Yep, my teams are always there and we just had KubeCon just a few, just a month ago. And so we're headed into already thinking about the next one this fall. Where are you going to be? What do you mean? You're going to be at KubeCon? Oh yeah, I'll be at KubeCon and or the teams will be there and then ignite. It really just depends on the timing of what's happening. Well, Jeremy, we'll have you back on. Thanks for the conversation. Yeah. Congratulations on the keynote. Absolutely, everyone. Appreciate it. Okay, it's the KubeCon coverage. I'm John Furrier with Rob Streche here for live for two days of coverage, analyzing the news, laying down our opinions and talking to the smartest people here on theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll be right back. See you later.