 This is very fascinating actually speaking of the sort of public cooperation or the sort of relationship entrepreneurs like you have with governments or sort of regulatory bodies or sort of just bureaucracy in general I guess. So how has that experience been for you with Inovat? So we've been talking with several governments and with UK specifically took one year to convince them to digitalize the tax rate process and we're still in process of discussing this and you know it's hard for us being not native British people we're coming from overseas I'm from Ukraine my co-founders from Russia and of course it's challenging I mean in Europe is also going quite well but what we mainly help government is reducing their fraud so because the process is such manual it's completely obsolete it's all paper heavy and all the recordings all accounting it's done like it was done 10 years ago 15 years ago so what we help government is to reduce the risk of fraud and to manage everything digitally and efficiently helping them to track where the money goes basically. Can you speak a bit more about that year and what happened as sort of what the relationship is because I mean I guess if you see this from both perspectives on the other hand yes you have a solution definitely and your sort of job I guess is to sort of negotiate and convince and sort of present to the cases why your product or service is a good thing for them to implement but then on the other hand I can also see the government side where I mean obviously they can't say yes to everything or anyone just on a whim otherwise what's the point of having a sort of stable institutions in that way so how do you sort of bridge this gap with negotiation and and and just letting them know that this is a good thing to do. So we so for example with the UK government we've done multiple meetings and approached them from different sides and you know it's hard to reach that specific team that's responsible for innovation and within that sector where you operate so yeah we've tried many ways of approaching them but we finally found the right team and when you find the right team is much easier the discussion goes smoothly and there is such some process that you have to follow so we're presenting our demo we were showing our numbers the research the advantages here and there so with Belgian government for example where we've passed through the testing phase and almost ready to launch our digital solution we've done that through a middleman which was connecting us to the government and also showing the benefits of our system and with Belgian government it was a little bit easier and it took less time firstly because of Covid because Belgium wants to increase the number of tourists coming into their country and wants to digitalize processes around their country and the second thing is it's much smaller and I can say more open to innovation. Yeah so I mean it varies from country to country how you approach the tax officials and we tackle that depending on their interest and how open they are they to the innovation. Okay and do you usually start off with some form of pilot or testing period to kind of do it you know smaller first so they don't have to you know trust you with their whole system right away and then once you go through that then you hope to get get you know a bigger chunk of the operations probably. Exactly as you do with your system you do a bit testing right so the same thing goes with approaching new ways of doing things for the government and you know this testing phase it all depends on how it goes of course and what the government decides in the end and their say is the most important thing so you need to do everything right in order to convince them to approach the digitalization. And how does it work is who's like your end customer is it the the governments who are paying for this service and you help them kind of digitalize their whole system and at some point they hopefully just use this or you know some form of combination of systems or is it the people who you know do the VAT filings on your system who pay you or how does that the business model work for you. So we have a general model as we to see where our end customer is the traveler and with some governments when they're open for integrating our system into their tax free management operations then we do that for example we're in talks with two countries in Europe where the governments are interested in to us developing for them digital system where they can manage all their tax refund claims for international travelers so it again depends but the general model is be to see and we care about international travelers a lot and how they go through the whole tax free process and we make sure that they get it right.