 Welcome to the first meeting of session 6 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. I'm James Dornan, the MSP for Glasgow Cathcart. As the oldest member of the committee, I have the pleasure of convening this meeting for the first two items of business. I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome all members to the committee, and I look forward to working with you over the courses of the next session. Before we move to the first item in the agenda, I'd like to remind everyone present to switch mobile phones to silent. I note that no apologies have been received from members. The first item in the agenda is for each of us to declare any interests that we have that are relevant to the work of the committee. Background information is provided in paper 1 of your paper's packs. I'd first like to declare that I have no relevant interests. I'll go round and ask each of you in turn about your declaration of interests and start with Stephanie Callan. I'm declared that I'm an elected councillor for Hamilton North and Eastport in South Lanarkshire. James, although there's nothing I'm required to declare, it would make sense to put on record that I was a teacher for 10 years in a previously been GTC Scotland registered at a member of the IAS. I have no relevant interests to declare, but I should just record for the record that, although I'm no longer practising as a solicitor, I remain on the role of solicitors held by the Law Society of Scotland. Ross Greer is not a registrable interest, but I have membership of the Disclosure Scotland PVG scheme for the purposes of youth work for the Church of Scotland. Stephen Kerr, I have no relevant interests to declare, other than that my family members are teachers. I'm declared that I'm an elected councillor for the Lockheed ward in Dundee City Council. Oliver Mundell, I have no relevant interests to declare. I'm not required to declare it, but voluntarily I'm still a registered member of the General Teaching Council. I have previously been a teacher, I was previously a member of the NSUWT and I'm a member of the PVG scheme as well. Beatrice Wishart, I have no relevant interests to declare. The committee's next task is to choose a convener. The procedure is explained in paper 2 of your pact. The Parliament has agreed that only members of the Scottish Conservatives and Unionist Party are eligible for nomination, convener of this committee. Can I ask for a nomination from the Scottish Conservatives and Unionist Party please? I would like to nominate Stephen Kerr as convener of the Education and Young People Committee. Thank you for that, Oliver. I was just about to move on there, you were taking your time. Stephen Kerr is the nominee. Do we agree to choose Stephen Kerr as our convener? I'll take silence as acquiescence. In that case, I would like to congratulate Stephen Kerr on his appointment and I'll now hand over to him to convene the rest of today's meeting. Thank you very much and good luck, Stephen. Thank you, James, for leading us to this point in the meeting. Before we proceed, can I just say that it's a tremendous privilege to be the convener of this committee. I know that we've got some very important work to do. In fact, I would argue that perhaps the most important work of this Parliament is, as it pertains to the future of our country. I'm really looking forward to getting to know you all and I'm looking forward to working with you as colleagues. I hope very much that most of the time that we are in our committee setting that we will be able to work across parties and be firmly evidence-led in our work, I will drive at all times to be inclusive. I want everyone in the committee to have a positive experience by serving on the committee, but I want you all to know that I am open to feedback. I relish both positive and constructive feedback, so please do not hesitate to let me know how you're feeling about how I am performing as the convener of the committee. Having said that, our next task is to choose a deputy convener. Parliament has agreed that only members of the Scottish National Party are eligible for nomination as deputy convener of the committee, so can I ask for a nomination from the Scottish National Party, Bob Doris? I'd be very happy to nominate a co-cab steward MSP. Thank you, Bob, for that nomination. Do we agree to choose co-cab steward as our deputy convener? I think that it looks like we're all agreed, so I want to congratulate co-cab Stuart on her appointment, and I am very much looking forward to working with co-cab. We had a brief introduction yesterday, and I think that we're going to get along famously. Congratulations. Co-cab, do you want to say anything at this point? Thanks, Stephen, and thank you to the rest of the committee as well. It's a dream come true in a certain way for a teacher of 30 years, having worked across two different local authorities and across all demographics, and I'm hoping that, in some way, I can bring that experience to bear and have wide listening ears as well. I'm also, just like Stephen, looking forward to getting to know my colleagues and, together, we can take on some quite serious work that is ahead of us. Thank you. Co-cab, thank you very much. As I said, we had a very brief conversation yesterday, and I'm really looking forward to being the beneficiary of your 30-year career as a teacher. I think that we will all benefit from that. Moving on to item 4 on our agenda, a decision on taking business in private, the next we need to make a decision to take. Can I say something? Yes, of course, Fergus Ewing. Thank you very much, Stephen. Can I be the first to congratulate both you and Co-Cab on your election? I'm sure that all of us are looking forward to working on the committee, which, as you say, is very important. I was extremely pleased to hear your undertakings to work in a non-partisan inclusive fashion. I just wanted to raise one point to seek clarification. It's been 14 years since I had the honour of serving on Scottish Parliament committees, but when I did in the past and working as deputy to the late Alex Ferguson in the rural committee, it was his practice that we, as convener and deputy convener, worked closely together so that, for example, I attended all pre-meetings with the clerks with Alex and participated in decisions administrative and others about the work of the committee, such as the terminology of correspondence, the setting of agenda and so on. I have to say that we never had a crossword. His chairmanship was exemplary and the committee worked in a really collegiate fashion with, as I recall, Elaine Murray from Labour and Mike Rumbles from Liberals, operating exactly in the way that you have described. Given that, obviously, we all have our political views, but we want to lay those aside in working with the committee as far as we can. Can you confirm, Stephen, that it is your approach to work in partnership with COCAB in the same way that Alex worked with me those years ago? You make an excellent point, and I appreciate very much that you bring it to the fore in this opening session. Absolutely be my intention to work in a partnership with COCAB so that we can have a sound basis for the aspiration that I have described of us being collegiate. As far as we possibly can, as you rightly say, we are politicians and we are going to have our political views on things, but I think that if we are working together in a commitment to being evidenced led in the way that we proceed, then I think that we can reach across to parties and we can do something that perhaps we should do more of in this Parliament, which is set aside our tribal instincts and work together for the good of the people of Scotland, which is certainly my aspiration, and I know that it is yours as well. I will pick up on agenda item 4, which is a decision to take item 6 on the committee's work programme in private. Are we agreed that we should take agenda item 6 in private? I am looking around the room and I see lots of nodding heads, so I shall now move on to item 5, which is the legacy paper. We will give brief consideration of the legacy paper from session 5, which we have all received copies of. First of all, the committee is asked, and I think that this is appropriate, to thank the session 5 education and skills committee for its legacy paper, to note for now and agree to consider the report as part of our forthcoming work programme discussion at the next agenda item. Are we agreed to note the legacy paper and to consider it as part of our work programme discussion at our next agenda item? Anyone wish to speak to that, or are you all agreed? Everyone seems to be agreed. I wish to speak to the very convener. Yes, okay. Thank you. Oliver Mundell. Thank you, convener. Clearly, since the legacy report was produced, we have seen a major and highly critical intervention from the OECD. It details 10 years of botch reform and bureaucracy that has put teachers under pressure and failed young people. I do not know about other members of the committee, but I found it embarrassing to read the 150-page document, especially given that many of the suggestions that were made by the OECD have been recommended by the committee in the last session. Those suggestions were resisted and ridiculed by the SNP Government for years. Opposition members on this committee in the last session were accused of politicking and making baseless criticism and of talking Scotland down. However, we now know that those concerns were in fact true and that it was the then Cabinet Secretary John Swinney who was putting his own political future ahead of our young people. It is no wonder that the SNP was so keen to keep this report secret ahead of the election. The material change in circumstances, to borrow a phrase, in my view, reframes many of the discussions that we had in the past Parliament and demands a different approach from the Government. I therefore believe that it is vital that we explore the concerns highlighted by the OECD in detail before revisiting the legacy paper in its totality. I am content to leave that discussion to the work programme in private, but I want to make sure that those points are made in the public session. Thank you. Okay. Oliver Mundell, thank you for your remarks. I think that it is only fair that I invite other members of the committee who may wish to say something to respond to that, if anyone wishes to. Yes, Bob Doris. Thank you, convener. Of course, I am a new member of this committee, so I will be looking at the legacy paper very carefully. We have agreed to take our work programme in private, which is convention, not just in this committee but across all committees. I was really pleased at the tone set by yourself, convener, with your initial remarks. I hope that Mr Mundell might reflect on his tone here this morning, but that said, of course, our committee is going to look at the OECD report, not just this one but the further report on assessments and certification later in the year. I think that that goes without saying, but Mr Mundell felt we need to say it and I respect that, but I hope that we can move forward. We can do it collegiately and non-fribally, as the convener suggested that we should do, and I hope that that is something that we can all live up to. Thank you, Bob Doris. Unless anyone else wishes to speak, I am going to ask the question again. Are we agreed to—I may have already got past this point. If I have, forgive me, I am also a new convener. Bob Doris and I have something in common, we are both new to this whole thing. Are we agreed to note the legacy paper and to consider it as part of our work programme discussion at our next agenda item? I think that we may have gone past that point, but does everyone agree? Everyone agrees. That concludes the public part of the first meeting of the committee. We will now move into private and consider the committee's work programme. I will suspend the meeting briefly to allow members to reconvene on Microsoft Teams in five minutes' time. Thank you. I suspend this meeting here.