 So many people coming in with the tweets. I'm seeing at Eli Jamwaiti saying he watching the show, loving it, enjoying the show. I'm seeing at Kirui saying I'm watching Kibra's finest done in Rongo in the house. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I'm seeing one more comment here by, this is Kevin, enjoying the discussion. Kip Kirui also saying that loving the show. I'm seeing here a comment by Kalmax, yes, why you laughing? I need to equally detail about that before. Kalmax is saying that the reality of the matter is that Jubilee is fractured and it hasn't observed the rule of this juncture. Citizens demand a capable and united nation, not factions permanently at war with each other as the current episodes demonstrate. The National Assembly Anthony has 416 members, of which 97 members are women representing 23%. The Supreme Court of Kenya at ease with 5 men and 2 women. That's indeed percent, not two-third. CJ Maraga should dissolve it too. Keep tweeting, the hashtag is the stand KE. You agree with what Kalmax is saying? I agree completely with what Kalmax is saying. I see you almost stood up clapping. Yes, and it's because as I said again on this show, the stand. I have said, if CJ Maraga was genuine, he should have come the previous year, the other year he had more time. But why now when it's about three months to exit. For me it looks like I shall revisit, we shall revisit. It seems like brothers who are settling scores. It doesn't look like it has a good motive for the interest of the Kenyans. And also Dan has said if it's not this bill it would have been another bill. So for me I'm looking at it like there were other bills and then they were like which one will be the most emotive bill. Let's go with this one. My question is where was the judiciary, I was yet to say a judiciary advisory when stalemate was at a standstill. When monies were not going to count, I never saw a standstill. So my question is why this last minute kind of thing? Why this last minute kind of thing? This thing would have been done way before. When were these petitions received? We should have seen a timeline of exactly what happened. But remember just to remind you of what we are discussing this night right here on Y254. The CJ has advised the president to dissolve parliament. What are the implications of this? Will this advisory take us ten steps forward or ten steps backward? Give us your take. The hashtag is the stand ke at ramaguko at Y254 channel. Now even as we continue with this conversation let me head over to what happened today. We had discussions that were taking place in regards to this issue where we had the parliamentary service commission saying that they will move to court to challenge this advisory by the CJ. Now the speaker of parliament who is Justin Moturi said this and I quote the commission regrets that the chief justice appears to be willing even eager to plant the country into a constitutional crisis without exercising the wisdom and circumspension that is expected of the high office he holds. Now, can the PSC in your view challenge this advisory in court and when the speaker says that it was ill-advised, premature and unconstitutional? Well, I think that really adds salt to the injury because like I said before that the parliament or the national assembly to be specific had got a timeline to converse through two thirds gender bill of law and it has failed nine attempts and the failure is not really out of technicality the failure is out of deliberate. That is within the public domain. Now, parliamentary service commission is a quasi-judicial committee any parliamentary committee is half judicial committee so I would rather have asked JB Moturi in his own wisdom in his own discretion that before he could have issued such a statement a very stinging statement directed towards the president of judiciary I wish that he could have updated the public on entire responsibility as the chair of the parliamentary service commission to that effect and as a speak of the national assembly to apologize to the nation for the failed attempts that have taken place under his watch. You say the speaker should apologize? Yes, before you make such a stinging statement and directing towards that vendetta to the president of judiciary yet this bill lied nine attempts at the national assembly which you are watching over. I think for me I would rather redirect that kind of anger, that kind of sting from JB Moturi and say that it was unnecessary but they speak to say that this is not his choice it is an electoral issue. Which electoral issue? I mean we elected leaders first of all and I like the fact that the nita said one of the issue we are electing you is more of representation but more also in legislation so failure to legislate matters in the national assembly is an indirect failure and enactment to the people that we elect. Okay, thank you so much Dan. In the same breath that you mentioned this bill came nine times in the national assembly and was not passed. So did the division of revenue bill go to senate nine times and passed on the tenth attempt? There was a committee that really was willing to converse about it. For the two thirds gender there had not been any committee that said okay fine now it has failed nine attempts. Could we try to have a dialogue? There was a dialogue. Alright. Had the senate about this I think that makes it different. There is nothing that had stopped the judiciary from the same advisory that calls for dissolution of parliament would have said hey look this is how we go about it through the executive let me give you one two three four five six seven steps to go ahead with this for me it is very misinfund because the same way the senate did not pass the division of revenue bill nine times and passed the tenth attempt is the same way that the two thirds gender bill was not passed. Point number two you cannot force people to elect a particular gender or give a particular requirement and say hey in order to elect somebody apart from the normal requirements for a member of parliament you need a degree you need this particular number of years blah blah blah to continue. I mean agenda issue you cannot say because even when you say you want to interpret ram you cannot say sareha constituency will determine only a woman can be elected no man can be elected. I want you guys today to show me the exact criteria in which we can achieve the two thirds gender rule. Now the CJ proposes that parliament be dissolved because of its failure to pass the two thirds gender rule. The two thirds gender rule favors women or females if I am to put it that way. You are a woman in leadership yet you opposed by the CJ. Why? Ram who told you we want to be given things on a silver platter who told you the only position that can be given is a nominated position not an elected position. You want to work hard for it. I want to sit here because I don't need it women have done it masakaru has done it, charitingilu has done it and wegoro has done it Fibiasio has done it and they can go on since 1979 when we had the first woman member of parliament and this women had balls. This women could shake parliament. So we don't want to be given things on a silver platter. Women too can do it. We've already been given opportunities in terms of education. If you remember if you want to go to university there are fewer cutoffs for women in the job market as we sit today Dan will tell you women have more advantages let us fight for a political space the same way, why is it not that in the corporate world we are told this specific position is only implied it can only be implied that women or men are preferred for this position but we are saying as young women in politics we want to go, we want to fight we want to be as strong as the likes of masakaru who never got anything on a silver platter. Quite interesting, is that? Milio Diambu was first elected Sorry, nominated I have no issue with nominated I have issues with the in the international assembly Nomination no problem Election yes a problem Now two thirds gender role provides much of an affirmative to the women who are not able or not only women but the disadvantage you are not able to compete fairly and equally because we understand the political terrain of this country as it is that even as much as the terrain is so rough and is so patriarchal in nature there are women who have triumphed through and I am glad she has mentioned some of them but it could be interesting that the Honorable Mata Karua is for the issue of passing the two thirds gender role why because out of her story she knows the importance of making at least relatively playing ground for women now this is very interesting Ram because why would we as a country and people in this funnel agree that two thirds gender was in the constitution that we overwhelming me passed in 2010 when it comes to the practical implication it comes to the practical application of the law we are trying to find other avenues why the failure has come into we are even trying to say that you see we do not dictate of who you elect let me tell you this is constitution this is law if we really cannot begin to bargain with what the law said unless the only way we could see this is to amend that part and generally do away with the dictates of the chapter of 2010 now CJ Maraka say that the 10th parliament the 10th palace did not have enough to enact the legislation required to effect these two thirds gender but now does this current parliament have the ability to do it no this current parliament is even worse even when you look at the track record and you look at the handset and the quality of basic bills that are being passed we are in trouble I would have wished that CJ Maraka elaborated what are this specific criteria that is talking about Ram going back to the issue of the two thirds gender rule when you look at 2010 when we enacted the new constitution in 2013 we had the elections and we brought forth the position of the 47 women rep the 47 women rep was supposed to be a 20 year it's only supposed to run for 20 years after which it is believed the constitution and perhaps maybe the two thirds gender rule would have passed women would have been empowered enough and now they could actually go for their big seats without any sort of protection but when you look at the women rep themselves number one wasn't it by implication wasn't it fair if this is affirmative action the same way we say you can only be nominated once then the position of women rep would have remained only for five years so I'm talking about the likes of Sabina Shege women rep Maraka who's now serving her second ten as women rep would have only served one term and if that is empowerment she should have been empowered enough to not decide hey I'm not going to be an MP in Maragua I'm not going to be an MP in what not but if you see some women reps have reocard or have recurred if this seat was supposed to have empowered women was it supposed to be only one woman Sabina would have been empowered after five years and then decided all the constitution would have given a caveat only be a woman rep for five years as it is the women rep who will serve for continuously the 20 years when will they ever vie for more positions I agree with her she's actually confirmed that we are having a parliament that is not able to enact that this is the reason why it should be dissolved this is the reason that it should really be dissolved Justin Mutuni said that we must not lose sight of the real challenges in implementing the matter and turn parliament into a punching bag on account of gender parity because according to Maragua he said that the supreme court under the former CJ Willy Mutunga had directed parliament to enact the requisite legislation by August 27, 2015 and they failed but now looking at the current number one, are we turning parliament into a punching bag on unrealistic claims and what are the circumstances that can make parliament to be dissolved speaking say it as it is I am looking at it this specific issue parliament is being used as a punching bag and I referred specifically to the senate during the division of revenue bill I mean we had all the time we gave them one, two, three nine times until the president intervened gave 50 billion more we even had the committee that you are saying lacked for the two thirds we had a committee that disagreed I think once or twice and finally came to ununderstanding so for me the only reason and in this country where parliament is should and can ever be dissolved is when we are about to run for election and in this circumstance it is so parliament we are likely to head over to an election and I see that it is not properly constituted a judiciary that itself is not properly constituted in case I I will still come back to say that the functions of the national assembly practically they have not lived up to tax and that's why we are here and you see by the speaker to Akosun blame to Akosun blame to the head of judiciary for the failure of the national assembly I think he's never here there the reason as to why we really need to quickly dissolve the national assembly is by the fact that there are the bills and the other laws that are still not enacted and because they have failed deliberately to enact those laws for political expediency now again now I really want to sit here and say that matters of the law must not be confused by political convenience you know there were a number of times there were a number of attempts that had been made at the same national assembly to save Kenyans on the two thirds gender issue that was not acted upon now whether it is a punching box or not whether it is a punching box or not I will repeat that the functions of the national assembly are well articulated in the constitution we are making it a punching bag why would it be a punching bag for me I am not saying it is a punching bag it is a failed institution it is a branch of the government that has failed to enact those laws and is plunging us to a crisis that we have this is the same national assembly that you are saying is incompetent has been unable to add to past bills you want to add more people more women to an already incompetent national assembly on top of that we are here today 2020 under covid restrictions like what exactly are you talking about you are saying that it doesn't make sense to even instill the two-third gender rule in a national assembly that is not functional so then what is the meaning of having the national assembly I really want to ask Anita must deal with their issues in 2022 now remember to give us your take even as you continue this conversation the hashtag is the stand keatramaguko at Y254 channel haslas and dynasties what are you talking about hondable relo diga spoke in kisumu he said this and I quote the kind of talk is aimed at inciting kenyans against one group and does not augure well in the eyes of the building bridges initiative which is seeking to reunite all kenyans divided along ethnic and party affiliations when I look at when I look at it what comes to my mind when I look at the haslas and dynasties I am a student of history and I must go back to the history and I look at the propagator that is Ruto and I also look at Reila in the specific context under which the past is being brought into focus when you look at it when you look at former president May God rest his soul in peace when you look at how he handled even the two gentlemen Ruto 1992 he was his right hand manager through the YK92 at the same time Odinga the child of dynasty was suffering unlawful imprisonment being away from his family so my perspective when I look at it I think it's just fallacious and a term meant to divide kenyans or rather provide some sort of confusion on how things are run and where I look at it it's fallacious because even Dan or Ram when you make it uki omoka uki omoka no your children will go to private schools they will live well off to make it now okay fine when you make it you provide particular platforms for your children to make it in life but it is not every child Raila fought for his space in Kenyan politics he has other siblings Obura but when we talk about Raila Raila sweat he sweat for this country blood sweat and tears that's not debatable he had this space he fought for his space so to nearly discount based on his personality I should not be able to judge Ram or judge you because you come from a rich family I should judge you by what you bring to the table today I can only judge you by the content that you produce on this show not where you've come from what you ate for breakfast so for me tying leadership on the basis of a personality or previous background is really fallacious I think people should be judged by what they bring to the table do you agree that you should be judged by what partly by content exactly in leadership I think what you're bringing to help the people that you know elected you now I begin by at the stand I said terms here that have been used in the current political scene and I think Hasla is one of them and I think I had earlier said exactly what Hasla looks like and giving it to being realistic with Hon. William Ruto I think he is playing his political card so well and he is identifying with the term Hasla and for his own political convenience the debates really that people are looking at him and asking are you a representation of the Hasla Nation and for the dynasty also say the term dynasty basically is a fellowship is a family that is taking a country to captive and making rule for a long period of time now Ram let me say this we are post covid and as a nation what we are looking for to be treated towards is a post covid recovery strategy I would question any political project that is brought forth right now with a lot of suspicion any call for a referendum right now is unnecessary and I have been saying that for a long period of time any premature political campaigns right now is posting Kenyans to a situation where there will be a double tragedy Kenyans are looking towards having all these that the country has gone through ideally the only thing that you could tell Kenya right now is how then are you recovering your business how are you putting food on the table but any other being any political maneuvers I think it's for ill-advised right now speaking of being ill-advised Honda Borrelo Diga said that the dynasty tag was meant to incite Kenyans against a section of the national leadership and meant to hoodwink Kenyans to take political sides now what is your stand regards to this is branding oneself a hustler or belonging to a dynasty dividing Kenyans so in fact I think it's a better alternative that someone who identifies a tribal aspect you know that Kenya we have had a history of tribal clashes tribal issues we had in 2007 post election violence for me I feel like this is more of a soft ladding whether it is true or not in terms of the context of hustler dynasty kind of thing is a thing for debate but if it will take us it will take us to have a detour remember that this one comes from the right side of the lake or this one comes from the rift valley or this one comes from I think for me it's a better in terms of ideology it's better because I'd rather fight capitalism communism than now actually fight in terms of ethnic progression Honda Borrelo Diga said this and I quote now that they have agreed Kenya is a hustler nation we want to tell them to give priority priority to job creation and business opportunities to the hustlers so that they can also take their children to school and afford decent housing coming to you Dan what you stand on in regards to Honda Borrelo looking at his perspective and how he is approaching the matter he is speaking to the unemployed looking at that as a tactic is it a positive deal for Honda Borrelo definitely and I think we are confirming but as opposed to inciting tribal going through tribal conclaves we are just forgetting a week or less than a week ago we had kapsaret member of parliament made very very insensitive statements and joined and I think they had to answer to the charges of incitement so I would rather agree with Anita I would rather like cohen a political narrative that rally people behind an ideology the debate is whether it is factual or not but at least you are not inciting political hatred ethnic animosity but there is another interesting term of these the hustler the leader of the hustler movement has mastered the art of donation of will burrows and washing machines and being philanthropic enough with the churches and construction of religious institution I am giving him a thumbs up for that because he is actually doing what other people who are blaming him for doing that are not doing so I think mine is to affirm that if that is the best way hustler nation would go into then it is correct is building churches is empowering young people is improving the lifestyle of those who are living in the slums and I keep on asking again the question is which side of the coin are you seeing whether it is legit or not but something is happening as opposed to you sitting down and blaming somebody who is reaching out to the impoverish with the little he has hustler nation doesn't divide canyons it's a positive thing I think that is positive it is political communication that is positive it is let me come to Yanita Hon. Rayla said this founding father Jomo Kinyata was Amita Reader the late Daniel Moy was from a humble beginnings as a teacher who rose to become the second president Muay Kibaki was also the son of a peasant who rose to become the fourth president Jaramugi Oginga Odinga was also from a peasant father and became the first vice president in other words what Hon. Bordigo is saying that former presidents in this country were also all from poor backgrounds so what makes Hon. Bordigo different I think for me it's more of some sort of branding and there is nothing wrong with you can brand yourself whatever you want nothing makes Ruto wrong actually when you read that there was a rejoinder by Senator Murkomon where he says yeah it's okay if the first president was Hasla, second president, third president then automatically then the fifth president should come from the Hasla nation and when you look at track records of performance you look at performance indicators from the first president to currently where we are I mean you would see without being biased and trying to be objective as possible you will see that this is the lowest we've gone in terms of delivery but as much as Ruto is trying to give this Hasla dynasty perspective what he misses is that he is part of this regime which has a dynasty person in charge so there is Hon. President as the dynasty and there is you the Hasla then what is going wrong because this current crop of presidency I think eight years now, seven to eight years now has been the worst performing if you look at public debt we are doing very badly so for me I would say that as much as it's bringing the narrative then the question is why is the economy doing as it is doing why do we have this big public debt yet you are elected as a unit now I would like us to sample feedback from people so many tweets coming in messages I don't know if we'll be able to find time to read all of them let's start with the first one coming up is by Karl Marx again on Hasla clearly it is drama divert the attention to divert the attention of people it's a distraction nothing will work alright let's pull up a few more tweets coming up on your screen which one do we start with alright so we have coming up on your screen which one do we start with director we have at we really saying I feel that it's time we implement the constitution page by page the legislature has to make laws in line with the constitution for ten years now we have the best constitution in the region but enacting the laws in it has been very difficult alright do you believe it is so that we have the best constitution but we do but one bill cannot supersede the others or let the the two thousand but you know we say now palliament has to continue with it of course we also cannot cherry pick certain sections of the constitution and leave out the rest but we must hit the big listen what the next tweet on the screen the hashtag is the stand ke empowerment is needed national wide to ensure the citizens understand that what the two third general means to ensure that women also understand that they need to vie for political space and also ensure that we don't nominate just for the sake of it we don't need women to be no flower girls you are calling them flower girls next tweet coming up that is coming up on your screen in a bit so we have one at which one is that alright so this is one saying Anita keeps on saying that CJ Maraga has only two months to leave office is the 2010 constitution will not end with Maraga it is here to stay so the parliament failed to implement it and these are the consequences let's swallow it as beta as it is your response that was directly to you Anita from there I am looking at it let Maraga go let Maraga go and we shall know how to handle the 2,000 gender with other laws depending on the priority for me today the priority is the IEBC to ensure that the IEBC is properly constituted because if we are in such a hurry to let go of parliament we have a couple of by elections coming up and I'm sure you've seen the circular how are we doing it with an IEBC that is improperly constituted there are priorities you have a take on that now? yeah definitely I think he is right by mentioning that positions come and go and what hold on is the constitution you also read the genesis of how this thing has been that it was even dealt with with the last chief justice it failed to take effect this chief justice is also leaving it failed to take effect so the next one probability that is also the same we will have another chief justice without this law being enacted the thing is dissolve the parliament converse it widely have a solution so that we do not come back to it then I'll give you a little secret the next CJ might be a woman and things will be different I love what you said you have predicted that the next CJ CJ will be a woman in any case we have a constitution we have a constitution that regardless of the gender regardless of the gender the stand I think Anita is live to the reality that the parliament has failed Kenyans I guess maybe what she should be telling us is then do away with the 2,000 gender rule but laws are laws exactly exactly I have not said we do away with the 2,000 gender rule I am saying they are matters of priority one more tweet at Oscar John I agree with Anita's argument we cannot give seats for elective positions for people based on gender the gender rule has has gone wrong from the start because of if the electorate does not vote for female candidates we cannot vote we cannot force it down their throats alright keep tweeting at Y254 channel the hashtag is the stand ladies and gentlemen thank you it has been a pleasure having you on board now that brings us to the end of this evening conversation tonight it has been a pleasure having you so many tweets coming in we cannot be able to read all of them but we appreciate your feedback see you again next week same place same time on Tuesday at 8pm this is the stand my name is Ram Aguko God bless you