 OK, yes, it's working, technology. So I'm so excited. You have no idea how thrilled I am to be here. This is my, I think, fifth night media forum. And last year, I did a breakout session on diversity. And I facetiously put it out there that we should be on the main stage. And all the years I've been here and I've seen folks on the main stage, I thought, oh my gosh, look at the cool kids. And today, guess what? We're the cool kids. So I am so grateful. And this is such a gratifying moment. I wanted to thank Jennifer Preston, Lashara Bunting, Paul Chung, Karen Runlet, and the journalism team. Because I want, this is about the panel in a sense that we are recognizing the gift of being seen and seeing others. And that is really a gift we should not take for granted as journalists and as funders who support journalism and strengthening communities. So I wanted to thank you, Karen, for just beautifully framing the conversation. I wanted to put a few things out here. So the Night Media Forum has been a critical, convening space around trust. And the declining trust in journalism as a democratic institution. The Night Commission on Trust Media and Democracy last year put forth a set of recommendations on how we can restore trust in journalism. And one of the four recommendations included making sure that our newsrooms were authentically reflecting the communities that we serve. However, we're seeing that we're struggling with this in our newsrooms. This has been tracked by the American Society of News Editors Diversity Survey, which is annual. And we're seeing that from Pew, we're lagging, actually, in diversifying our newsrooms compared to any other sector. So how does this play out in the context of trust and healthy democracy? Well, we're seeing from Norwick Research at the University of Chicago that young, aged 18 to 34, African-American and Latino-Latina audiences are not happy, are highly dissatisfied with how they are being conveyed in mainstream media. And they distrust the news media compared to any other constituent group. We're also seeing that misinformation campaigns that undermine voter engagement target at disproportionate rates African-American communities more than any other community because they're exploiting this trust gap. So what can we do? Amplifying underrepresented communities is an opportunity. We need to reframe this conversation as audiences of opportunity. And how do we recognize cultural competencies by journalists who gets to tell whose story and really do a deep dive on the structural issues that keep perpetuating this newsroom issue, as we've seen, as Karen mentioned, with the Kernar Commission Report over six years ago. So I just want to say one last thing. At the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY, a lot of young people, we see the next generation of news producers and news consumers. We see these young people come to our school because they love that we promote community-centered journalism and that we promote journalism as a powerful tool for public service, a powerful public service for a healthy democracy where we all can thrive and make healthy civic decisions. But what we're seeing is they learn all of these wonderful skills and they get hired. And what we're hearing now is they're struggling at newsrooms, at their newsrooms and at their jobs. And these journalists of color want to not only lead their jobs but lead journalism altogether. So if we're talking about addressing this decline of trust, that's an issue that we really need to look at structurally. And the second part of that is some of these journalists of color want to become media entrepreneurs of color and start their own news organization to have their own power. But the access to capital is another structural barrier that a lot of media entrepreneurs of color face. So we have three exemplars, and all of us are wearing a lot of different hats to address this issue on multiple levels. So I'm going to start with Maria Inajosa. And I'm going to, sometimes when folks tell the bios, like you forget who the person is, so I want to try to keep it in context. So Maria Inajosa, I wanted to start with you. You are the president and co-founder of Futuro Media Founder. And what I love about the name is it's Futuro. And before we talk about why you started Futuro Media Group, I wanted to talk about you as an anchor and executive producer of Latino USA. Because about a month ago, I want to get the dirt on the episode called Digging into American Dirt. I think on so many levels, it really encapsulates why Latino USA was uniquely positioned to bring much needed context to a very contentious debate, especially around identity and the audiences that you serve and that you are loyal to. So could you talk a little bit more about Digging into American Dirt? I want to know the how of that journalism and some of the decision-making that went into that. Thank you, Jenny. Love the dress. What's up, everybody? Good morning to my fellow panelists. This is great to be back at the forum. So it was interesting because Latino USA, which is produced by Futuro Media, we're trying to drop the group, so Futuro Media, is now the only show on NPR that is growing a substantial audience. We produce it at Futuro Media, which is the nonprofit that I founded 10 years ago. And NPR distributes it. And Latino USA has been around. You may not know this, but it's been around for, well, I started anchoring when I was five. So it's been around for 26 years now. I know it's amazing. I had a really deep voice when I was born. So Latino USA has always been a show that is kind of thought-provoking. It's not really a breaking news show. We're not set up in that way. But interestingly, within our newsroom, we've had to have the conversation about how Latinos and Latinas are actually leading a lot of news. And therefore, we've had to respond, which is a challenge for a small nonprofit newsroom. But I'm going to give you a couple of examples. Over the summer, there was Puerto Rico. Where massive protests, part of our American democracy, led to the forced resignation of the governor. Then there was the El Paso Massacre of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in a targeted hate crime. Right after that, it was the detention and arrest of 700 poultry workers in small towns right side of Jackson, Mississippi, where I was just last week, where we're doing a follow-up. And then our newsroom was like, oh my God, this is so much. And then American dirt happened right at the beginning of the year. And we had to make a decision of, so this is not a massacre. It's not a political protest. It's not, but it is a massive cultural moment in the United States where we're talking about American dirt. If you don't know about it, then just listen to the episode and then you'll understand. You're right, Jenny. And I won't go on for much longer about this. But when you say uniquely positioned, we were. Because we are a small nonprofit, community-based national newsroom, we're based on 125th Street in the heart of Harlem. Come visit us. And because we have this long history of all of these words that just came up just this morning, trust, authenticity, sir Tim, wherever you are, talked about love. Because I was like, do I talk about love on this panel? I don't know. But yeah, he talked about it, so now I can talk about it. The way we approach our journalism, the fact that Futuro was founded by a Mexican-born American citizen who was raised on the south side of Chicago, now lives in Harlem. Our executive director is a black woman from Mississippi, Boston, now based in Harlem. Erica Dilde, who's over there. Our board chair is Deepa Donde, who is of Indian American descent from New Jersey. Where are you guys? Raise your hands over there in the corner. So we are an all-woman-led, multi-ethnic newsroom where it is about bringing your whole self into the newsroom. And that doesn't mean that we don't have editorial battles. We had a lot of battles around American dirt. To finish with that, we just realized we have to do this story. I called Sandra Cisneros. I was like, will you do this? She was like, yes. Called Luis Alberto Rea, who I know, right? Cause we've been reporting on these authors for years. Will you do this? Called Miriam Gurba, who wrote the scathing takedown of American dirt. Would she do this? And Janine Cummins said yes. And what we did was that we did not push our perspective, and by the way, it's very complicated. If you wanna know more about how I feel, listen to In the Thick, which is our politics podcast. But for Latino USA, we let those four interviews stand alone and let these people speak for themselves. And it was just wildly applauded because of the fact that we were not putting a, this is how it must be looked at and we're gonna tell you this and you can't let other people write these stories. No, we let the authors, and in this case, just they're all authors, speak for themselves. And I think that just to end, it's really quite beautiful to realize that a show that's been around for all of these years that frankly, NPR thought would, when we created it 25 years ago, 26 years ago, I think they thought it would be around for maybe five years. We're going gangbusters. How does that happen? It happens, and again, I'm gonna go back to serve, Tim. Because of the passion and love and commitment, writ large for American journalism, writ large, very specifically for the telling of these stories with heart. And we, Erika, myself, Deepa, have created a newsroom where we encourage that, all of that to be brought in and then to be critically dissected and used in a newsroom that is filled with people of different generations, and we go at it as journalists. But what you said, cultural competency is actually where we start. As a media executive, we talk about this a lot with our leadership team. How do we understand, bring cultural competency into our newsroom? And audience opportunity, we know. That's why our numbers are just because we've been saying for the longest time. It's about being representative, right, in our newsrooms, but also, hello, demographics, who's gonna be your audience? Who's gonna be your donors? We've been focused, I've been focused on that for the entirety of my career, and thankfully, it's paying off. That's great. So I wanted to actually have you wear your entrepreneur hat. It's been 10 years since you founded Futuro Media Group, and that's how I'm gonna bring Martin in to the conversation as the co-executive director of the Maynard Institute. So you founded Futuro Media Group as a non-profit news organization. And finding capital and securing philanthropic dollars, as we know, and we have to kind of go there, is difficult for women, hen, folks of color. A stat, the Democracy Fund had done really great research on this and found that from 2013 to 2017 of the $1.1 billion that went into journalism, about 8% of that went to diversity, equity, and inclusion-focused efforts. So how did you find that money to start Futuro, and how's the sustainability problem or a challenge pen for you? Okay, so a quick story. Please don't tweet this out, but it is in my upcoming memoir. Ooh, shameless self-promotion comes out in September. Anyway. It was 10 years ago that I went to have a meeting with 60 Minutes, that's why I don't want you guys to, and I was so thrilled. I should have understood that they asked for the meeting at a Starbucks, so maybe that was a clue. It was a great meeting, nonetheless, and they were like, oh my God, we love you, you're so perfect, but can you wait until one of these old white guys gets sick or dies? And I was like, am I laughing, am I crying? I didn't know, I got in the subway, I cried, and I said, what am I gonna do? And so what I'm saying to you is that it was just this kind of like, what am I gonna do, what am I gonna do, how am I gonna figure this out? And I thought about, not other women who had created independent nonprofit newsrooms, I thought about actors, actresses in Hollywood. I was like, what did they do? They created their own, I'm gonna create this, how am I gonna do it? I had learned how to raise money because I was working it now on PBS. And I was very blessed that a woman who had done Reiki on me to heal me from PTSD post 9-11 turned out to be a multi-millionaire philanthropist. I know, and she treated me for free. Okay, it's Fiona Druckenmiller. Some of you may know Fiona, Stanley Druckenmiller. Fiona was my healer, and so frankly, in desperation, I was like, I can't call the Ford Foundation, MacArthur, Knight, you know, they don't know, I mean they don't know me, Fiona knew me. She knew my heart, in fact, and I said, I wanna do this. And she was, without Fiona, nothing, this would not exist. So that is strange and crazy and a bit of an opportunity. It's also, as a journalist, I was a journalist, even when I was on the Reiki table, because I was like, who is this woman who's doing this for free? I need to find out, and there you have it. But that luck, part of it, gangbusters, but it is hard. And one of the arguments I made to Fiona, I remember, and this was 10 years ago, I was, I don't know what the statistic was, but it was like, of all the money that is put out there for investment in any news company, media, whatever, the amount given to women is like 1%, and I was like, that's the number that I need you to help me. And that's how it all started. Thank you. Now we're funded by every, well, not by everybody. We, please, come talk to me. So on that, Martin Reynolds, the co-executive director of the Maynard Institute, a training ground for journalists of color, so all of the things that we're talking about. But I wanted to start with you and some of the provocative ideas you had in sustaining, as a nonprofit organization, this effort to support journalists of color, you embarked, you were key to a new strategic planning for the Maynard Institute after Dory's passing, and it was so interesting how the strategic planning process was so ambitious, and I'm thinking you looked up and saw two people to do all that work. So I'm just curious how you've sustained your business operations. Well, you know, people of color, we don't, it doesn't need a lot of us to get a lot done. And everybody that puts in a cuddle knows that. So, I mean, I think what, I mean, we had help, obviously we had help from night, help with the funding of the strategic plan, we had help with, we had friends in the philanthropic community because of the organization's long history. The Maynard Institute's the oldest journalism nonprofit dedicated to help America's newsrooms reflect the diversity of the nation. And we've done that, and some of its founders, it really was born out of the Kerner Commission strife that talked about the lack of diversity in mainstream media. And some of our founders include Bob Maynard, who went on to be the first African-American to own a major metropolitan daily, they all contribute where I was editor-in-chief. And then, of course, Dorothy Gilliam, who just came out with an amazing memoir, Trailblazer, she was the first African-American woman at the Washington Post in 1963. So these people were Trailblazers of their time, and the goal was to train journalists to enter into news organizations and make their way. I'm not only a journalist, but also was a graduate of Maynard Media Academy in 2005. So I believe in its mission, and it helped me go from managing editor to leading my newsroom. But then after Dorothy had passed in 2015, and the organization is really asking the question, should we even exist, right? Because at that time, news organizations were still trying to navigate coming out of the Great Recession. Obviously, the industry had vastly changed, and the primary customers of the Maynard Institute were newspaper companies. And they were going through a lot of struggle, which many are still today. And so we had to ask ourselves, well, I guess we could have waited six more months until after the 2016 election to ask, should a diversity organization still exist? We got that affirmed, yes, we should have, but we also then robustly thought about what are, how do we serve this industry in the 21st century? And one of those programs was Maynard 200. And it was a training program where we were gonna focus on the next generation of journalism entrepreneurs, advanced leaders, and storytellers of color. And the reason we said storytellers is because we ran a program called Oakland Voices in Oakland, California, where we trained residents to be storytellers, started in 2010, before much of this was even happening. And it helped to inform this notion that the people who are contributing to the narrative of community are more than just journalists, right? They are members of community. So we called them storytellers, and thank you. And so the thinking there also was we still wanna train middle managers and advanced leaders, people who are working in organizations and leadership roles at mid-level, but also those who could become CEOs, because the reality is the way change happens in news organization is from the top down. There isn't an Arab spring of diversity that just comes out of the ground and is just gonna happen. It doesn't work that way. If it doesn't happen from the top, it's not gonna happen. And the third was journalism entrepreneurs. Why? Because we cannot in good conscience continue to funnel people of color into legacy news organizations that are inhospitable, unwilling to change, and are not places that are healthy for young people of color in different generations to go. And so that's where, and so this training organization we're now in our third iteration. We've had support from Google News Initiative, from News Integrity, also from Knight, from Ford, and Democracy Fund, and others to help support this effort. But it's under-capitalized and in fact we think it's so essential and to see these people who are creating their own narratives, who have the opportunity to step in and lead organizations and storytellers who are learning skills like around investigative reporting, the love in the room and that training space hopefully helps to give them a cape to walk into these organizations and undertake these incredibly challenging ventures that they're doing across these three areas of learning. The other work that we're doing is we wanna go from having conversations about diversity to creating workplaces that are equitable and inclusive in service of diversity. It's not DEI, it's EID. Because you can have people that are diverse in the newsroom, but if they have no agency and no influence, they leave. So what we wanna do is help organizations do that and so we got a grant from Knight to pilot, thanks to LaShara and Jennifer, to pilot an embed where we are gonna go embed ourselves, burrow in like a tick with two news organizations over the next year and help them create a plan, craft, training, all of the things necessary to actually make transformation. And I think what's really key here is it can't be the moral obligation. The business case hasn't really sunk into y'all either. Even though in 2045, 14 million people alone will be multiracial. Twice that will be Asian, three times that will be black and four times that will be Hispanic. So I wanna do two things. One, let's not saying voices from underrepresented communities. Let's say voices from your future audience. Thank you. And if you want to survive and thrive in the 21st century, we are your audience. And lastly, but not leastly, I also just wanna say that we have to, as we think about how do you address the diversity challenge, it has to be tethered to outcomes, right? The outcome being what is the key to your most prosperous and sustainable future as a news organization? Not simply the moral obligation, because that hasn't worked in the business case, hasn't necessarily worked either. The other part is what you alluded to, which is a notion of trust. The trust project headed by Sally Lerman funded by Craig Newmark and contributed by many news organizations to articulate transparency standards on the web. Two, they have eight core indicators and of the eight, two explicitly speak to diversity. So at a time of great distrust in our society, if you wanna be viewed as trustworthy, incredible, diversity has to be at the center of your strategic plan. So I just encourage folks to think strategically about how does this help you reach new audiences to connect to communities and build subscriber revenue? And the reality is that it takes time to build relationships to communities that you have ignored. And don't think you can just walk in with a bouquet of flowers, talking about why don't you subscribe? We're so happy to have you. It's not gonna work like that. It's gonna take time and it's incremental. It's relationship by relationship, person by person and to all the community foundations in the room, I would say this and then I'll stop, is that this is an opportunity for you to get behind narrative change work in your respective communities and to collaborate with libraries and people in communities because libraries are heavily trusted. Community foundations was often focused on workforce development and economic development. The reality is a community cannot be healthy. It cannot be prosperous if local journalism is not supported. So there's a number of foundations that do this like the California Endowment and others, but the opportunity is great. You just need to go grab it. And lucky for us, we have a community foundation CEO, right next to you. This is Jeff Faroda, CEO of Community Foundation, Boulder County. And I really appreciated you looking at the 150 community social and health indicators of the Boulder County region and putting forth this intentionality around utilizing an equity lens in your funding. So Jeff, you've heard Maria and Martin just kind of throw the gauntlet and as a community foundation, I'm curious what using an equity lens looks like and would love to hear some of the community listening tours and cultural brokers that you've talked about to strengthen your community. So note to self, never follow Maria and Martin, especially if you're not a cool kid. But with regard to the equity lens, and by equity we mean creating systems where all can thrive. And it really boils down to three core principles for us. The first is prioritizing those most impacted by inequity. The second is something we call do nothing about us without us, which is simply trusting the wisdom and agency of the people with lived experience to know their own issues and to create and implement their own solutions. And the third is not to do anything on our own, that we can create more change by working together in partnership. And the form that that's taken has been through the work that we've done as a community foundation that has begun to fold into an intersect with journalism. I can think back to the School Readiness Initiative where Richard Garcia, a trustee at the time asked two key questions of us. Who are we really talking about and who's not here? And who we were talking about were Latinx kids who were experiencing the largest school achievement gap with their Anglo peers of any county in the state. And who wasn't there were their parents, which led to a movement of School Readiness Coordinators, principally Latina moms going from house to house, providing resources, recruiting leaders which led to 50 such coordinators, 250 cafecitos and 1,900 Latino families that were reached and demonstrable results in School Readiness as well as a burgeoning movement of community organizing that changed, for example, the school lunch principles with regard to Latino kids. And then through the Knight Community Information Lab we began to learn more about human center design and cultural brokers and how they could create structural change. This sort of dovetailed with open listening sessions that we were doing throughout the community where we just asked three questions of people in your lived experience, how are you feeling about your community? What are the most important issues to you and what should we do about them together? And when we got to 15 people, we just opened up another one. But we came to realize pretty early on that there were some people who would never come to an open listening session and that we needed to go to them, again with trusted relationships and cultural brokers to where they gathered, section eight housing, LGBTQ support groups, and one particularly memorable listening session with simultaneous translation with Promo Torres who were working and living in mobile home parks organizing for clean water and human rights. And when we asked them the last question, what can we do together? They said, tell our story to the powerful people, which was heartbreaking because we knew no one could tell their story better than they could themselves, that they were powerful and compelling and that we needed to find a way to help them do that. So that empowerment was not conferring power but recognizing power and agency. This led to sort of a question about the community indicators report that you mentioned. This is it, this is trends. It comes out every other year. It has so for the last 23 years, feels like 123 years. And we began to ask how might a community foundation act at the intersection of journalism and community action? We're fortunate in that Chris Barge who is the managing editor of this report is also a former newspaper reporter with the Rocky Mountain News and the Boulder Daily Camera and I worked at the ABC affiliate for about five years. And Lily Weinberg helped connect us to Lindsey Green-Barber who helped write a concept paper and research a concept paper on how we might work at this intersection which led to something we're calling the equity reporting initiative which is a big title for something we're just trying. The first aspect of it is to respond to the community request to expand trends to a year-round dynamic storytelling resource. And so we launched a podcast in conjunction with KGNU, the public radio station in our community and hired a Latina bilingual cultural broker as its first reporter who's already a trusted voice. The first story was indeed the story of the promotores. And then we are now telling stories of census outreach and combining them with community foundation resources and solutions that way. And that's been supported by both Knight and Karen Runlett and the Jacques and Littlefield Foundation. The second aspect of the equity reporting initiative is something we call the Solutions Fund which is when these stories surge up from community storytellers. One of the frustrations that Chris and I had as former journalists is we would tell these stories and then we kind of have to leave them at the water's edge hoping that somebody would pick them up and act upon them. And we thought, could we not do that as a community foundation? Is that now what we're supposed to be doing when we learn these stories to act as a catalyst for the solutions? And then the third aspect, which you're way ahead on, in fact, I sort of buttonholed Barton yesterday on an equity reporting lab which would be a cohort of equity fellows, emerging storytellers and journalists as well as seasoned journalists who have been sidelined with the hollowing out of local news in our community and the acquisition of the Denver Post, the Boulder Daily Camera and the Longmont Observer, Times Call rather, all acquired by Alden Global Capital. And despite the heroic efforts of these journalists, really a need for a new and diverse ecosystem of local news. So that cohort bringing people together and providing resources of learning as well as stipends for their reporting. These are things that we're trying with the lessons of resident leadership, community organizing, cultural brokers pointing toward this North Star of Equity. We're very much in the beginning stages and we hope that if we walk this road with some humility, we'll be granted some grace as we stumble our way through learning and we're very inspired and honored to be with all of you who have been doing this work for a while now, learning from you and your support. So I just wanted to ask all of you a couple of questions. It's on everyone's mind and Maria you touched upon this and Jeff in your work, census and elections 2020. How does all of your work kind of inform how you're going to reach your audiences to inspire folks to get counted, folks to engage and feel that sense of efficacy which is the strongest driver for civic engagement, efficacy meaning I actually have the agency to make a difference if I do this thing for my community. So anyone can take a stab at it? You know, I think when I think back to a decade ago when I was imagining Futuro, I, it was a very visceral understanding that by giving representation and voice, we are also acknowledging their power and in telling the story, my dream vision has always been that in telling your stories, you begin to recognize your own power and then you act on that power. I would say that in the decade of Futuro Media, we, and I actually now I'm like, how would we prove that? Like what would be the data? Like how would we get that? And I'm sure that we could. But I think what we're doing now, it's not so much cause we're a nonprofit newsroom where we put out four podcasts every week, just weekly. So it's not like we're doing a, you know, this is the census and partake, no, it's not that way. It is much more understanding. So for example, we just got back from Mississippi. We're outside of Jackson. There was this raid of 700 people, the largest raid ever in this country's history of a poultry plant of workers. And the census actually says that the population in these towns of Latinos and Latinas is miniscule. But on the ground, if you're there, I was there for four days, for three days. I didn't see any white people at all in these towns that I was at. And yet the census says that they are, I don't remember the exact number, but maybe 5%, 7%, Latinx. What's the, when actually it feels like much more, like more like 25%, 30%, maybe more is actually on the ground. So I hope that in doing the deep, deep reporting that we're doing by spending all of these days by giving voice that then we are able to kind of, again, push people to say, we need to be counted. We need to be seen. There's another problem though, which goes to your question of trust. We have a real issue of trust now. While all of this is happening and there are presidential debates happening and people are looking at Nevada and South Carolina, I'm getting texts from people across the country, including in New York City, frantic texts from people who are saying, ice is everywhere. Ice is everywhere because you may have seen the headline that said that, it was a couple of weeks ago that said that the administration was gonna be sending out tactical teams of ice in high profile, whatever, just kind of massive presence in the community. It was a big story. Most people forgot about it, but right now that is happening in these communities. How do you tell them to answer a census or open the door for a census counter when everything that they're hearing is, you don't open the door to anyone, ever? Sadly, saying to people, don't open the door to the police unless you absolutely see a warrant because also ice agents misrepresent themselves as police. We know this, right? They wear uniforms that say police everywhere and ice in smaller letters. This is a central tension in that we're trying to say, we're giving you voice, we're giving you recognition, we're giving you power by reporting on you, telling your stories authentically with love and respect, but at the same time, people are saying, if this administration is re-elected and DACA is not re-upped, the government has the data of all of these tens of thousands of people who signed up for DACA. And they're, the knock on the door is real. We're doing this, but the knocks on the doors happened this morning right here. At five o'clock in the morning, ice went out because that's when they go, five, six o'clock in the morning when everybody's asleep, that's when they're taking people. That's happening at the same time that the census is happening. Yeah, I mean, so looking at this from the perspective of how to talk to new journalism organizations about their role in local communities. And when the whole newspaper business was collapsing, I had to sort of reinvent and I got to be a community engagement editor in 2009, or excuse me, 2011, and I had no staff and no budget, so that was fun. And, but it gave me a real glimpse into how to rethink the role of a journalist in community. And last year and then this year, the Institute held a convening, one with community activists and journalists talk about what can activists teach journalists about rebuilding trust. And then we doubled that up again this year and had a collaboration with our friends at Free Press and Alicia Bell who put on this fantastic training about sort of mapping your community with community organizers to talk about what organizing principles journalists need to use to reconnect to community. And I think this is really important because this notion of trust that Maria just mentioned is real, the lack of trust. And one of the things that the activists and organizers said is that they're a lot more journalistic than we give them credit for and we're a lot more activist than journalists would like to admit. And what we activate around is news and information, right? And so we are seeking to transform our cells in many cases from ad-based revenue to subscriber-based revenue and how are you gonna build relationships with community, with folks who don't know you, trust you, and in service of informing them about what is happening in community. And so I think that there's all this conversation about engagement and it's so often data-driven. And the reality is engagement is person to person. And I think we need to go from having simply engagement editors that are looking at screens and analytics to organizing editors that work in news organizations to build trust in relationships with community. And to think about what that would mean, the way in which, and I also think when you look back on sort of the role that advertising has played in news organizations, imagine if from the very beginning, particularly mainstream news organizations, the relationship, not the advertiser, the relationship to community, how different our approach to people would be. And now here we are in 2020, so many organizations are seeking to pivot from advertising, some are non-profit and so on and so forth, but those in mainstream pivot from advertising to subscriber-based models. So we want people to support us when we have mischaracterized them. And the other part is that, are we gonna recommit the original sin of journalism? So who is getting money now to invest in these new ventures? And are they explicitly being asked, what is your plan to connect with community? What are the benchmarks and deliverables? We sure get a bunch of deliverables from foundations to do this and do that. But where are theirs? And who gets the tens of millions of dollars to start ventures, and here's what I'm gonna say, and I'm just gonna be real. If you want to recommit the original sin of mainstream journalism, which is to disenfranchise whole swaths of community, I suggest that they go by the way of the pterodactyl. And that we then redirect those resources in the philanthropic community to institutions and organizations that have a commitment and see the value of the audiences of the future. That would be my suggestion, my hope, and my belief that is necessary.