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But before we do that, remember, we have combined MAPS Anabolic with the no BS six pack formula, put them in a bundle, discounted them tremendously. So you can get both right now for $59.99. That's the savings of over $100. If you want to sign up because you're smart and you want to look good and sexy, head over to maps october.com. All right, here comes the show. I did a workout the other day where I haven't done this in a while where I do like a pre exhaust superset. So I did like for back I went really heavy dumbbell pullovers to pull ups to pre exhaust the lats. We've talked about that before in the podcast. Yeah. And I haven't gone because it's the first exercise in that lift that that means that can go heavy on a dumbbell pullover. And we've talked about the dumbbell pullover before it's in a lot of our programs and old school lifters used to use it as one of their strength tests, they would actually compete with a dumbbell pullover. Believe it or not, it was ranked higher at one point. It was actually they used to was that sound strange. This is like the 30s and 40s they would this was like a not necessarily compete but this was an like a staple heavy lift. Okay, you say compete. So I thought like they actually had competitions around. No, like the same way like when we were in high school where I was bench press how much do you bench right in those days it was like how much do you overhead press? And what's your barbell pull? How many people can you leg press on a bench? So well, so you see that 2000 that's 2010. Well, so check this out. Right. So I was I was talking about this. I was Jessica was like, How was your day? And I say, What was your workout like? And I was telling her, I'm like, you know, what's weird about a dumbbell pullover is it is it technically a single joint isolation movement. But it feels like a compound lift in terms of how it affects the body and the strength in the muscle building that you only one that really kind of combines triceps and lats, you know, and you get that sort of interesting combo. Yes, it's also this so trip off this is totally came to me right. Most of the effective the most effective exercises that you could do with barbells and dumbbells tend to be exercises that strengthen what are considered fundamental human movement right barbell squat squatting right pressing rowing overhead pressing rotating split stance exercises. These are all considered fundamental human movements. Well, what else is a very what is one of the things that humans do physically that's better than almost any animal if not any animal in the animal kingdom we throw we throw it's this overhead from back to front motion in our scapula and our shoulder evolve specifically to give us this incredible skill that is one of the reasons why we became the apex predators, right? It's one of the reasons why we're so successful as hunters we could throw with accuracy. What exercise strengthens that foundational human movement better than the pullover a dumbbell pullover? No wonder because I'm thinking about I'm like it's an isolation movement but man does it feel like a compound lift in terms of how it like develops strength in my body I've always noticed that right? Yeah, because it's a foundational human movement and there's really no exercise that we do that strengthens that kind of overhead movement that that that is so you know fundamental kind of interesting. Yeah, you bringing that up reminds me I did a video with Jordan shallow on the pullover us looking back at the other days I'm like in a cut off and like I look like a slob back when we first started the podcast some of the stuff that we used to do and we had him in the in the studio yesterday and you had a great great conversation with him and that boy I tell you that guy he he talks at such a high level and even when I try and get him to distill it down for the average person it's so I feel like it's it's impossible for him. Yeah, yeah. Is that even when he gives his his analogy or his example he still is over the top with I think it's hilarious. He's just bored. Yeah. He's bored with the way that we're trying to like you know distill it down it's like no this is actually what I don't think I've ever met a meathead who talks like him like that. No, no. I don't think I have another friend that is that that that has a vocabulary like him and and uses it the way he uses it. Hyper intelligent. He's on a different level in terms of intelligence and it's not just his verbiage and he doesn't look it. That's what so that's what's great about his brand. Yeah. Is he looks like a meathead with a beard. You know, he's like I compared an a beast on X-Men the the blue, you know, scientist that was a very similar but he's super intelligent because if you can understand the language that he's using, he makes connections to things and he explains things that he really puts things together really, really well. So he's this obviously why he's been so successful is that he's that combination of application and intelligence. But yeah, when you're at that level, then it's like it's hard to communicate it. Like the next level is like how can I get this so that the average person knows what our conversation about the foam roll, Golgi tendon, the transmitters, like how the kind of receptors. Yes. His his explanation on that. I have never heard somebody break it down like that. It was so interesting to me but it's like a brand new angle. I hadn't even considered. I felt like I was intently listening though. So I could consume all of it. I mean, it's the average person still. I think it'll be over the over the couple weeks and we'll figure out how to dissect it all and like, you know, relay it back to you guys. But uh yeah, we got some work to do. Yeah. What I appreciate about someone like him is he he really is explaining the the details and the mechanisms behind what we've observed and explained and talked about because we trained so many people for so long. Yeah. Like I for example, you know, we use the example of the vibrating plate. I remember those vibrating plates first came out. I laughed at them like, okay, what what new thing are they doing now? Why are you standing on this thing? So I'll start feel good. If I have enjoying it. Why are you sitting on that, Justin? Yeah. No, but uh you know why why are people using this? What's the value and then I went to go use one and I noticed that because of the way that the thing vibrated, I noticed that it affect my cns in a way to where I would get into positions that I normally wouldn't be able to get into create new patterns go off the the vibrating plate and now I have new ranges of motion that I can connect to and I remember uh it was like, this this has to be like three years ago four years ago in an episode where we were talking about this. Yeah. Now he explained the mechanisms. Oh, it blew my mind when he was breaking down the speed at which it's transmitted and that it's that it's I mean he had the rates which blew my mind. Yeah. He knew the rates at which it transmits and it actually moves faster than pain. Vibration does. So you know what this would it remind me of and I said it when we interviewed him. We've all experienced this. You ever touched something super hot? Move your hand away and then you feel pain. Yeah. That's because your brain perceives the heat faster than the pain. Yeah. So it's almost like seeing lightning and then hearing the thunder later. It's like your brain's like move your hand away and then you feel the pain. Understanding that allows you to to train the body in ways to get around those road blocks. So but he he explains the mechanism. Oh yeah. I mean we've known for a long time that it's it's a neurological thing happening. Not a physiological thing that's happening. So we had pieced that together about foam rolling quite some time ago and we've talked about that on the podcast but I've never been able to explain why that is like not to the detail that he did when he started to break down the way that the brain receives that message and it's just it's that simple that vibration is it gets to your brain quicker than pain can. So basically you're just hijacking the signal and tricking the body into almost thinking that it's it's better than what it really is. Fascinating. And through that you can accomplish what you want. Well and but that's also why it doesn't fix the problem. Right. It gives you the tool. Right. And that and that's now I feel like I can explain to somebody who's like why foam rolling helps. Ways the tree. I can totally tell it's working and it's helping. It's like well no temporarily it is because it's hijacking that signal when it gets to your brain faster than actually the signal of pain coming from your body that's still technically there. So it kind of hijacks that temporarily so you can do stretches and mobility work and everything. So okay so it reminds me of this. I remember years ago we all know the sports creams right Ben Gay and Tiger Balm and all that shit right. And you rub it on your elbow. Yes. Just smell like a medicine cabin. Yeah so I remember you saying would you play basketball with your dad he just oh it's like I'm like hugging a peppermint tree or something. Just smearing all over me. Suck. But anyway I remember as a kid I even pieced this together as a kid like this one I was like 12 and I'd go to judo when I was young and my knee was hurting and my dad's like put this Tiger Balm on. Ben Gay. Yeah and I remember I'd rub it on and even as a 12 year old I'm like how is this gonna help my knee. It's not absorbing to my knee joint but I think I rub it in. I did feel less pain so I remember as a kid thinking how does that work. Later on I pieced it together Jessica she suffers from migraines and when she she's to travel with the circus and she go all over the world and at one point I think she was in I want to say Thailand or the Philippines and somebody gave her this little bottle of green oil and what it essentially is it's this really concentrated form of Tiger Balm or whatever and what she does is she dabs some of it and she puts it on her head where she feels the migraine and it produces that cool sensation and she doesn't feel the pain anymore so she was using this and the same thing I'm like it's not go it's not really stopping the problem like I know what's happening the cool feeling is interrupting the pain signal so the pain is still there that's right you you're not perceiving it and you don't feel it anymore that's exactly what's happening. Oh yeah blew my mind the way he explained it and the fact that guy could actually break down each one of the transmitters and the speed at which they transmit to your brain just like where do you have that useless information I mean it's not useless he obviously applied it and used it very well but blew my mind man it's such a great conversation. Speaking of cool science did you guys see what's what scientists did with the pig kidney did you guys read about this? Is this the pig human that Justin brought up the other day? No no so check this out so I'll read it to you this is the New York Times surgeons in New York have successfully attached a kidney grown in a genetically altered pig to a human patient and found that the organ worked normally yeah so this is a scientific breakthrough that one day may yield a vast new supply of organs. Pigs are closest I guess you know species for us to be able to adopt like wasn't pig hearts and all that too is like something that is. What is it about pigs that that's the case because I know that we're not the closest to them we'd be closest to like a. Their organs are somewhat similar similar enough or usable and what they'll do is they'll genetically modify the pig so that your body doesn't reject right the kidney or the or the heart or maybe it changes it a little bit so it's but man does this sound like a sci-fi movie how does that how does that like a common sci-fi movie? Oh yeah now how does that work because we've understood now that through you know some basically through some tissues you store memory right and so now you're putting organs from a pig inside your body and I wonder what kind of fucked up dreams okay so what Justin's saying is it sounds crazy yeah strange right look it up yeah peep there are they're all just wake up the middle of the night and slaughtered oh my god just the terror your wife's like you smell the bobbing for apples that's pretty weird no um there are lots of reports anecdotes right of people who've gotten a heart transplant or a kidney transplant and then their they the personality will change a little bit or they'll be into something that they weren't into before or there's this one story I read where this this husband I think it was a husband he met this other man and for some reason they had this crazy bond or woman they had this crazy bond it wasn't sexual or whatever and then later on they found out that his wife who died that this new woman has the heart and he's like I couldn't understand why I was so like I felt like we were so attracted there's a lot of these stories it's not like I mean again anecdotally but like they haven't really put a lot of study into it but it's like it trips me out because like you know it gets those in the middle of the night starts like rooting outside who knows yeah you guys don't know now what are the I mean how was that even possible that we allowed this to go into a human like I imagine there's all kinds of like red tape to get to do that right there or is it just anybody could just no I don't think anybody I'm sure there was well yeah right so I mean I would think that you wouldn't even be able to do that would you want to be that guy also that's the other question I have like who did they convince to do that they're like we have two options human kidney uh 50 thousand dollars or we have this thousand dollar kidney that's pretty good right or free because we want to try that I mean you're that guy that's like flirting with the black market you know like options at that point right and this guy's like well we could you let's back up for a second right let's think about this genetically modified pig what does that mean that means it can be a patented pig so now because if pigs can't be patented because they're natural but if you genetically modify it as a pharma company yeah you now own the patent on that genetic modification pig farm of just organs exactly so now you're a pharma company you've got genetically modified pigs nobody could copy you because you have a patent on it they grow kidneys hearts livers and whatever think of the market on that well what's Doug what's the black market on organs well forget the black market look at the regular market well yeah they would have to sell in the regular market I know they would have to sell it but just there's a reason why there's a black market because there's not enough there's not enough or not enough supply for the demand very good point so that's what I that will give me the indicator on how much that could grow yeah that space along yeah you know it's sad a lot of people do die because they can't get organs in time yeah I think I read this or saw this somewhere and I was actually really fascinated by how big this market is like it's like a big yeah isn't it like if you have pre-existing conditions and things like you're lowering the list wow look at this if you want to legally sell your heart in the US it can be purchased for about one million livers half a million kidneys about a quarter million wow human skin ten dollars an inch you can sell your skin holy shit there's a market well I mean I'm sure the price is that high because it's also so rare and if they if they mass I'm also I mean that's you jug looked up legally illegally I bet I mean half half the price I mean that means someone would sell so what was it a liver was the highest what's the heart no heart heart is the highest at one I think the black market's cheaper yes well no of course it is that's why it's dude how you only gonna get 1500 for your eyeballs I know you don't need them excessively low because it's not like a heart you need a heart that's why it's the highest right I don't know I'd like to see things yeah I don't think it's a priority of what you'd like in which I mean I'm sure like things that you don't need are probably lower you can be blind but you can't have you can't live without a heart right you'd be dead right I don't know dude 1500 isn't that how they scale wouldn't you think that right we go all of the most important organs yeah that's how we go but I mean I suppose I'd be curious on where keeping you alive I would want to know where the genitals fall in line with the eye I don't think you can which one is considered more of a priority yeah wow let's look at that could you let us know what's more how much is a penis cost on the market and I'm sure there's a different range yeah the sizes right this you got small small medium and large I'm sure the large ones are cost a little bit more yeah does it is there I don't think you can I don't think you can buy well you can buy anything there's some there's definitely the mark didn't we we didn't we when we talk about an article about some guy that was jarring dicks and was saving them with oh that was the dude that worked in the yeah he would so there's definitely a market for he was uh yeah what do they call that where he had all the moratorium yeah dead bodies what did I say Doug mortuary mortuary oh let's see here you know I'm not getting any numbers here yeah honestly it's I don't think they've sex organs don't seem to be yeah yeah go selling item yeah I don't think they I don't think so that have some questions eyeballs are higher priority than the genitals now at what point do you guys see that in the future where people are going to be like when this science gets really crazy and people are going to be like I want to jump I want to run as fast as a horse and they give you know you know horse quads replace my quads well don't there's already a isn't there a community of people that are already messing with like vision and hearing and I mean there's already it's already become on a thing I you know I don't think we're far the question I have is that what will be more popular biohacking and and and doing weird stuff like that where you genetically modify your body or going virtual oh you mean with oh virtual are you just saying tech versus no just not it's like that we're adding chips it's like what will become more pot will become more because we're advancing both those wrapping right now the ability to do this I mean real soon here you potentially could go upgrade your eyeballs and have like you know telescopes for eyeballs right coming up real soon here and same thing with the hearing like ridiculous hearing to be able to control all that but then we're also look where we're moving like we brought up that alter ego for Fox like where this virtual world is becoming really popular and so is it more likely to see I mean both are gonna grow but have a virtual is limitless but if you're limitless and you're not technically changing you can get out of it and you don't have to obey the laws of physics you know I mean that's what I think in the real world you still gotta like there's still gravity and shit not in this virtual world where yeah you know they it doesn't matter yeah change the code a little bit and you can do what you want that's why I think that's why I think that will pass it I think this idea of well the big there's a big just few extreme people yeah they'll mess with their body and there's a big debate right now about genetically modifying your offspring now they're selling it by saying eliminate predispositions for disease and all you know these these allergies and whatever but I'm it's a very short walk from there to you know what was here's the range of wins in uh China that uh they yeah they did that to and and it was for HIV and yeah yeah what happened they they modified them so that they were resistant to HIV resist HIV but then the side effects where they had all these like superhuman abilities or something so I don't know about that why I had like all these like added things why hiv why did they modify them to be resistant to well I mean that's it sounds to me because that's publicly like that's that's not a politically incorrect like if they modified them to make them hyper intelligent everybody freak out but if they said they can't get hiv everybody would applaud because it sounds like it sounded like it got backdoored in there like there was some like intelligence added in yeah well as I was saying as I was saying it's a short walk from we've genetically modified kids now to where they don't have any genetic issues to well here's the range of height that my wife and my genetics will allow we're just gonna we're gonna make sure that they get the the highest of the height and the smartest of the potential combinations of genetics and now next thing you know all these we're gonna have these like superhuman well meanwhile we have the thing I brought up to the day with the schools where you can you know modify your kids pictures I think that's more likely like I think you're less likely to see modification of people's bodies you know even though it's happening I know uh I think it's it's gonna be more socially accepted to do things like that which what we're I mean obviously if an a junior high is already doing that with parents and people are oh yeah they're all buying into it and paying five more dollars to have their kids but you've seen how like even Instagram and all these obviously that's been a thing where people like adjust and and filter their face their body all that kind of stuff and you've seen how that's actually translated into the real world where you see you know these butt transplants you see like all the weird you know body types that are just really great on Instagram and then you see it in real life you're like whoa this is distorted you said transplants implant there's I don't think I have a butt transplant no there's no like donors how much I get top dollar over here that's at your funeral it's really sad but I would like to say that 15 people benefited from nobody wants my liver but they definitely want the glue yeah his liver is fucked nobody wants that yeah you don't want that nobody wants his liver but his ass let me tell you 15 people yeah give it to 15 people I did pretty well I'll take top so speaking of weird stuff I tell you what man if you ever questioned whether or not the media is a propaganda arm of the government I'm going to read you a couple article titles never do okay so I believe everything yeah if I'm going to read you a couple titles of articles and if you it's like you know how can you tell me that you're a propaganda arm of the government without actually telling me so here's what's happening right now so okay as we know in prices are becoming inflated okay food prices gas prices electronic prices are they trying to say like the economy is booming no it's worse than shipping containers on ships or just stalls like we're getting anything the average American now is noticing that they go to the store and their grocery bill is now more expensive for the same stuff or less stuff so people are starting to say holy shit part of the reason for this is they printed money like crazy and just gave it to a bunch of people and stuff and the second thing is there's a supply chain blockage there's lots of supply that isn't getting to our shores because of reduced production and also because there's I think there's something like a hundred like or a thousand shipping containers off the coast that haven't can't come in because we can't unload them because of all this craziness so you got inflated prices okay not a good thing obviously if if something costs a dollar yesterday and today it's a dollar fifty for the same exact thing you are 50 cents poorer for that one item or whatever right okay check out this baloney right so this is yahoo so yahoo prints this article here's the title I haven't heard from them in uh since 1992 here's the title okay America isn't running out of everything just because of a supply chain crisis America is running out of everything because americans are buying so much stuff wow brilliant wow yeah sums it up do you know that the soviet union the they used to this reminds me of the propaganda the soviet union used to tell their their people do you know that they used to because we would show pictures of our grocery stores versus their grocery stores and that stuff would leak to some people in the soviet union right they'd see this and be like oh my god like we have nothing I have to wait you have stuff yeah yeah and over there their their shelves are full of food you know what they used to tell their people huh americans are so poor they can't buy anything that's why there's so much stuff on the shelves just to give you an idea of the quick so that's one always a way to spin it yeah here was another article this one was from cnbc uh inflations silver lining higher salaries unbelievable awesome we have increased you know what I tell you is what I tell my kids I tell my and I the one thing that I try and teach my kids to to keep them from being manipulated is to understand economics because I think if you understand basic economics it's very hard for you to get manipulated it's very hard though that's why I love that Peter Schiff book the how an economy grows and why it crashes because it's really hard to I think really understand economics from the level that we're all at now like we have this that's on purpose we have this yeah we have this massive economy with so many moving parts and you know so it's really tough to teach a kid or even an adult for that matter if they don't if they don't have any background in that like exactly how an economy works and so I love that he took it all the way back to let's pretend there's 10 people on this island and we're and we build the an economy from here and then you start to see like how because it makes total sense like oh it probably started what was the the most important thing was food right you're on an island so the guy who could catch the fish now has the first ability to probably charge or trade people for something and then you just kind of see how it all builds and he he inserts all the challenges of like how we vote for things to like oh give this to this person and oh allocate this over here and he gives examples of that in a more practical like oh what would you what would happen if the main guy was fishing you all of a sudden say he has to give up half of his fish over to this person what would that do and you go oh that wouldn't work that would completely destroy that or he wouldn't be able to keep be able to afford to keep going and that person become lazy and then that person you see it from that perspective but when you look at it when it's this massive machine they want it to become look complicated and they want people to be ignorant because it's really easy like look if you're if your salary went up 20 percent most people know how much they make every month they get their paycheck they see oh i made 20 percent more but if the cost of everything went up 25 percent your your poorer you've actually lost five percent but a lot of people don't track their expenses that way don't pay attention also here's a little trick that manufacturers and producers do is let's say you're going to buy let's say you buy one toilet paper roll for three dollars and in that toilet paper roll is a hundred squares of toilet paper and the company sees oh shit we need to raise our prices by 20 percent either we raise the price of the toilet paper by 20 percent cut 25 of the product or we cut 20 percent of the of the squares down and sell for the same amount and people don't even know they go buy the same product yeah oh i'm still buying bacon change that's still five dollars but you're not getting a pound now you're getting three quarters of a pound yeah so people have no idea and that's what they count on they count on that happening and inflation kills kills people i gotta bring up the article that that doug sent over because it was a while back when we i mean we first started talking about the direction everything is going and you know and i and i think i i made it clear that i i have faith in humanity i just believe that uh we we have these times and periods in our life where we see these dramatic swings left or right and i really think that we're we've just we've seen this and rightfully so there's a lot of things that need to be corrected it wasn't that long ago that we were a very racist sexist society i mean it's not even a hundred years ago we were definitely like that so which is a blip right so i definitely think that we it was needed to get corrected i just think we over swing back over corrected and i do believe that we're seeing the that correction start to happen and i think that the article doug sent over is proof of that is that you see now like uh your your christian schools and homeschooling because of all the curriculum and what's been going on in public schools that parents are and because of covet everyone being home kid parents were forced to kind of dive into what their kids were learning and what was being taught and their teachers and are starting to see that a little bit more and a lot of them are going like it's blowing up right now like you can't get into like a christian school right now they're having to expand rapidly like i think like on a typical year you might see a couple percent swing up or down percent oh yeah 10 to 20 percent on most you know and then also homeschooling is like doubled like it's crazy yeah i think uh it's going to keep moving in that direction because of the ability to deliver information virtually and i think you know what's going to what you're probably going to see more of is you know i want my kids to learn you know these subjects and there isn't one school that does all these subjects the best like i want them to learn math from this place i want them to learn history from this place it's going to move in that direction and look i hope so it'll be so much better here's a deal go to look at call college is the worst college is the greatest example of how distorted things are today you go in and you sign up in a college course and the teacher says your professor says here's the books you're required to buy and it's you have to get this edition which is almost identical to last year's edition but whatever how much does that book cost $300 all right hold on a second it's the year 2021 i could download that book for three cents right you could sell it to me for 15 bucks and have a huge margins i'm still forced to buy a $300 book paper book such bullshit so it's it's rife for disruption and i think with covid and everything that's just accelerating well you mentioned something that i mean do you believe that because i we are off air we were talking a little about this and you were saying that you actually think that this might be a sign of us just being divided oh huge so you think that and i and i i don't know if i agree with that i think that this is just a sign of us collectively kind of moving back more towards the center i think that maybe 20 years ago we were a little bit more right we've been swinging to the left and now you're seeing a more collective movement back towards the center so the two sides so there's yes and no actually there's truth to that and then there's also truth that there's more divided so the two sides so if you look at like democrat republican when they actually do studies on this democrats moved really far left compared to where they were about 20 years ago republicans moved a little bit further right not that much not as much as the left has but they still did move a little more right so they're further away from each other but here's the part that's where you're saying which is actually true there's more independent independent voters than ever before yeah there's more people who don't identify with either party now in the middle so that's where i think what's happened like i don't think that all of a sudden we saw a 20 to 30 percent of people that believe in christian faith i believe we see a percentage of people who don't like what's being taught in the schools and they're like they don't really that and they know that that's not being taught in in in a christian school and so even though they don't maybe believe in the faith and that's not but they just they don't they're not okay with how how radically left some of these public schools have gone and so they want just that and it's not about all sudden there's a bunch more christian people that are walking around it's like hey we know that these girls schools are teaching this because you're and you're even seeing that by schools are starting to advertise that i know like no critical threat race theory will be taught here like they're actually advertising that so people know this place like parents actually have a voice you know otherwise everything is just rolled out from the state the public school is the is the biggest you know they talk about disparities and you know dividing the classes and odd stuff the public school system is the worst it's the greatest example of that because in most states not all but in most states you have to go to the school that you're that you're in there whatever district you're in yeah so if you're a struggling family or single parent in a tough neighborhood you got to go to that freaking school and you have no choice you can't tell the your public you can't tell the district look here's a deal might i want my tax money to go i want to pick a different school because i this one shitty it's got metal detectors and the teachers don't give a shit and people are getting beat i want to go to this school over here which is paid by the same people it's still and they'll say no you're forced to go over here it's total crap compare i'll tell you what you compare the public schools and some of these rough neighborhoods to some of the public schools and these like desirable expensive neighborhoods and you will see the most opposite different experiences you could ever imagine you're talking about tax money and bullshit i was talking to my mom's husband Lonnie the other day and you know i didn't even know this that somebody can uh marry somebody who's in prison like they don't they don't meet till after they're already in prison say they're incarcerated for life marry them and then apply for welfare and collect a check a free check because they're married to someone who's yeah what yeah wait did you know this Doug dude there's so many prisms yeah and that's a hat like it's so such a hack that it's like a very popular thing in areas where there's there's prisons like that of like people migrating to that town so they can do exactly that hack and then collect a free check and live off of it can you marry one that changed genders that goes to the other ones don't think it matters to see i don't i'm just wondering fact check me though dub because i i mean he talked we were literally talking about this last night and i'm like get the hell out of here i have never heard of that before and he was telling me that yeah no it's a it's a really big deal and it'll destroy some towns because people will move with that intention to go near where these these prisons are at wow just to just to get that hack that's crazy and then bullshit and then it's expensive to just gotta be a name for for that that's why i wanted to look it up there's gotta be i mean if it's become something that you have like cleat chasers yeah you know for like athletes yeah yeah prison yeah mary mary and in making it welfare or something like that i don't know what what we call that was crazy hey speaking of school and education just any updates on your on your team and the coaching and what's going on yeah i've been quiet over guys i say he's frustrated the other day about it it's such a bomber dude we've been hit with riddled with so many challenges uh the season he's like the bad news bears it is dude we're at that point we're hanging by a string dude a thread of a string uh where so we've had guys like from injury or from uh basically just like covid stuff where like we have to like quarantine and so i can't even go to practice because one exposure uh you know anybody that hasn't been vaccinated because of the mandates this and that and the other uh can't like step on the field and so it's been hard for me to even coach i've done it up in the box where i'm not in the field and i'm like trying to like you know voice uh the plan from way up there yelling nobody can hear me yelling on the uh the microphone you know in the headphones and so it's just been really frustrating but uh yeah the injury thing is is even the most frustrating for me personally because that to me is an indication of the off season work and and yes i will i will admit we are super low in terms of personnel so like kids are running you know both ways and and they're just getting like exhausted fatigued and just getting beat up but like these things that you get beat up you just work through that's part of football like you just gotta be tough in in work with like little dings and bruises and like you know stuff that you want to go you know get a hug from your mom about but like you need to tough it out so there's actually been some some injuries that we've had to address and and uh i've i've sort of had my hands tied with them but uh i want to i've been able to kind of help in terms of like some of our mobility programs and things to get kids working on that at home but also you know some of these cases i'm like thankfully now we have somebody to send them to so i've actually mentioned luna uh to two of the players oh good have had you know like some significant uh injuries and and and are trying now to recover from them uh and they didn't know that was an option like they went to kaiser they went to their you know um you know hospital provider whatever and they only got this like you know sort of a short window of therapy and i'm like look you can extend this and here's how you do it and so i'm going to follow up with them but like i'm very curious to see like how their experience went but i was just so glad i was just going to ask because the because um i have somebody that went through them and loved it because they called them they sent someone to i mean just like advertised they sent someone to their house and they're way more consistent and it's longer i didn't know that so i know a lot longer yeah typically they'll give you like five weeks or whatever for luna can like extend it much six visits you're talking about what i was talking about my buddy that will who just is like this thing is going to blow up because who's a he's a physical therapist and insurance companies are really really strict and so they they will prescribe like the bare minimum of therapy because it costs them so much money and he tells me he has to fill out but loads of paperwork just to get them to renew and be able to come for more for more visits he says it's like pulling teeth to get somebody 15 to 20 visits because you really have to justify why this person needs to be in therapy where he says if you go do like something like luna this outpatient why he goes they'll write a 2020 visit plus subscription prescription no problem because it's it's so much cheaper for them it's cheaper for them it's cheaper it's cheaper for everybody and it's a better service it's so cool i can't wait till we get the quarterly updates with them because they are just they're going to disrupt that so nice because it's like exactly what they need you know and like for them to even be able to come back full full force you know they need that like hands on therapy that they're not getting i just never understood the six visit thing like as a trainer trying to help someone get stronger six visits not okay like it's the bureaucracy it's because there's there's money involved in insurance that's why so they're going to make it really really difficult for you to do that it's not it's not going to be that easy speaking of of pain and stuff i got to read you this so i was doing some research on resistance training or weight training and injuries injury rates i should say okay here's something interesting so this is the this was in pub med and it was a study done in 2020 and it's injury risk factors associated with weight training so ready for this they studied men and women over the course of a year to look at the the injury rate between men and women with resistant can we guess some stuff yeah so first off i'm pretty sure you guys will get this right who's more likely to injure themselves working out men or women the same people that are more likely to crash has more ego problems and uh that's an obvious risk now i guess so how much more i'm gonna say yeah what percentage more so i would i would say men are at least double the risk of getting hurt so twice as much twice as much what do you think what do you think justin that's a fair assumption maybe four times it's it yeah maybe three okay so so over a one-year period zero point six percent of women experience the weight training injury so less than one percent almost half of one percent yeah four point five percent damn you're five x driver five x times that's a huge difference it's so true though you we could totally guess that like i always had a a the challenge with uh my female clients was getting totally to push themselves more and take more risk my guys was always like no you don't need to oh i could do it i could do it i could do it but we know bro you're you're fine you know how many times i would train like a male client i don't care how many years i train them to and they would do a set and as their trainer i'm thinking of myself i judged that wrong it's a little too heavy yeah and then they'll they'll rack the weight and the you know the bars a little cricket or whatever they'll rack it up be like i think i could do like five more pounds or 10 more pounds no we're going to actually went too heavy yeah in fact that's 20 pounds too heavy as it was we need to back off a little bit that's so true right yeah i if you think about it like the the really stupid shit that you would see in gyms i'm trying to think of like the stuff that really stood out it was all guys i think it was all men oh i don't think i've ever seen a girl do some stupid shit in the gym i really i would see women doing is they would just beat themselves up with the robust classes yeah i would see that yeah but the really hilarious dumb stuff like there's the guy we've talked about him before we all know him because we all managed and worked in the same gym not at the same time necessarily but this guy was a a member but he would walk in he had a weight belt on always it said beast on it and he would go and he would load the shit and abs dude oh bro he'd stack five plates on his chest yeah that's it right there big old belly yeah more than every 45 on the leg press and then his friend on top yeah and it would be like one inch me do you remember i shared this i shared this one you remember that guy who and i you guys should know that remember this dude too he used to this was like a kind of shorter stocky white guy he was in good shape he was fit um he used to stack uh seven plates on each side for bench press and then he'd have three people spotting him he'd have a guy on each side spot him and then a guy straddled over the top yeah so everybody else is doing like a search oh totally it was a four-person lift and he would go ask like random people i remember being a trainer and like watching this all the time and i eventually spot me i eventually had to talk to him i said hey listen dude if you come in here with your group or your friends and you guys do this but i can't have you asking random members to spot you on weight you shouldn't be doing i could do that way with no you can't not if it takes three people to spot you and help you you can't do that way so that so that can't even do half that way yeah so that happened to me once right so it was at hillsdale and maybe it's the same guy i don't remember what he looked like he used to go to hillsdale sanatruza and i used to see him in another one okay so it might be the same guy i don't remember what he looked like but the first time i saw him i watched because i saw him stack the weight on and i said there's no way yeah he's gonna lift that and then i saw there is no way then i saw everybody lifting the weight together i'm like oh god yeah and i would you know i see this guy come in and so one time he's looking for people and i'm like watch this and i went over to him and i said i'll spot you yeah he's like well i need two other people no no i'm really strong i could totally spot you and i did i stood over him and i i let him handle some of that weight now i did have to deadlift half of it but i made sure for him to know that bro you're gonna hurt yourself if you do this by yourself dude back to your previous point i was trying to rack my brain if i've ever seen or even seen a video out there where you know a girl's doing a bench press by herself and you know it doesn't load it properly and it it comes up too fast once like you know the the classic right the one where the you lose the weight i've never seen a girl do that have you ever seen it no i haven't either yeah i think i mean we're picking on guys right now the only thing i see girls that girls do more than guys are all the dumb little exercises that's their advertiser do yeah that's the deal i'll see that more often not where they're like i mean they're just busting their ass through the stair master with a little kick back i want to go over there listen if you literally just did five sets of squats today you literally would have a superior workout than all that shit you just did for like 945 i'll have to claim k the worst one worst offender in my opinion is uh the was a gravatron yes the yeah push down leg push down the gravatron stop doing that ladies this is a public service announcement i see dudes do that to stop i've seen i've seen guys do it too so that's no i have one i have one i actually lit a lady up in the gym early early trainer i was like my my my fourth month as a trainer wow and i went off because i had a client doing a hack squat and while the way she pulled the weight off the thing while i had that i've had that she pulled weight off of it in her defense those likes okay so in a person like it's moving that's happened to me that's happened to me before in their defense because like i've seen this happen more than once you know like a hack squad is one of those machines that has like you know six different places that you've loaded and we rack it i know i know she's like following the weight and sliding it off at the same time like what do you do i can already yell at her i've seen people do that before like i see people do on the leg press too like that like what are you doing like in the middle of a leg press you can't take that weight off like that i heard somebody hey did you guys hear about uh in and out pulling out of san francisco yes so no i don't think they pulled us because they were shut down for the first the first uh restaurant okay so that all the restaurants in the bay area are supposed to manage it's supposed to be vaccine mandates so if you you have to survive in san francisco so you have to you have to provide proof that you're vaccinated and they cracked down on in and out because in and out wasn't checking and they in and out came out so listen we are not the vaccine and we are not gonna i'm not gonna make our staff ask every single person to proof of their vaccination and so the city said okay shutting you down so they shut them down because of that they're the first example that they've uh or made an example well you are bidding well them southwest i think said they're gonna stop uh requiring because remember they had that where all the planes were grounded i think delta oh that wasn't the weather no i mean they still i think they're still saying i think delta said the same thing so what is happening with that i haven't followed up on that story the last i did all like all like a good percentage of the pilots said we're out so yeah and i heard that uh so they're gonna be all on unpaid leave and then i guess the ceo said they're not gonna do that or something like that it was like that's where it left off but uh again yeah delta i heard and then also i heard like m track like one of the train uh companies we gotta be further along those dug have you heard anything do you know what's going on with that because that was like a week or two ago when that all went down and we're i mean what's going on with flights right now do you guys know is southwest back to normal flying or is it like moving at 50 percent capacity right now we're hitting into the holidays which is going to be like pretty crazy if they haven't you know figured this out speaking to the i don't want well hold on real quick i got to get one thing i got to add on this this is for your favorite governor of all time system governor new some i have a big picture of it in my bedroom obviously new some of cal if he's a governor of california and they have some we have some of the strict strictest mandates right and he is asking for an exemption for a union that's that gave him a 1.7 million dollar yeah yeah because they gave him money so can you believe that if you give him money you don't have to do these then he pulls that he does a thing it's the mafia it makes sense it's like the money you said one of the art is there i don't think any other states stricter than california is it we have the hawaii is pretty strict oh you know i've been watching bj pin post some stuff on hawaii is on the crackdown are they really yeah really really strict wow worst in california new york i don't get a lot of travelers from all over the place so they're very strict yeah oh man imagine imagine being on that i living there and being feeling trapped on there with like that would be well so much at least here if we really get fresh we drive across to another state and get out of here also so much of their economy is dependent on tourism so i mean i understand the rationale right because for them like their tourism makes up such a big percentage of their business and they can't shut down all the time when we went there even though they are when we went there uh their world like we went to go get a rental car yeah and the line was it took me almost two hours to get a car and i finally i finally got to the front i'm like what's going on here yeah they're like a lot of the car companies shut down because of the because of what happened yeah and they just haven't reopened because we haven't really been able to pick up so we have way less you know openings that can service these people yeah i got a funny story for you guys it involves one of our our partners chili too and i and i've said this before that you know chili saves marriages it also could cause divorces too i think we slowly you're all right i've been promoting the same marriage no she gets in bed wait a minute why is one side of the bed warm yeah what the hell we just we just went up right the the four of us went up to truckie for you know a few days right so we were up there uh recently and uh i come back and so right now okay we're in the middle and you just and you know for sure because your weather is closer to mind where it's starting to get pretty cold at night so i've had the fire on lately and i like to sleep with the door open i all summer i've been that's been kind of the deal in our bedroom i keep it open and now it's getting like pretty cold and so katrina's been like we're closing the door and i'm like so there's a little bit of contention already and it's like oh it's okay i've got my ruler right and i that thing is time to drop to the floor as far as cold well anyways well we went to truckie i didn't know this the way i found out was waking up in a fucking sweat tonight she changed my side because she was so cold with max in the bed that she would roll over it was freezing because no one's laying there and that thing just gets colder and colder if no body isn't there's not a body on there so while we were up there she adjusted mine didn't adjust mine back we were already having the debate about the door being open i can see and go like okay whatever my climate my ruler will save me yeah i climb in bed and fall asleep and then wake up to a 90 a 90 degree side of the bed dude and like i was so fucking pissed over that so yeah so i guess it could cause divorces too i know i've been touting them as like this marriage saver you know what i noticed with the cool don't tamper with it you know what i noticed with it i i i've always noticed this less joint pain the next day because i'm pain i sleep i sleep harder longer fall asleep faster deeper sleep it's up it's up there when i think of our partners the things that i use you know i use all of our stuff but there's some things that i use every single day and it's like i swear by it like the ruler has been that bit of an investment so the first time i mean i remember looking at going down it's kind of a lot of money for this thing like is it really worth it i'm so glad that i did because it's one of those things now that i can't i can't imagine like well my mom swears by i got her one and and so she's finally using it because i mean my dad's a beast he's like six sevens huge guy snores like a freaking bear you know and so she has a hard time sleeping to begin with and uh is very sensitive to like heat cold all that kind of stuff and has been using she's like oh my god i just wake up like refreshed and she's like so energetic and everything it's pretty cool to watch you know i just difference i feel like that i mean i at least i don't know anybody who's married at that they both agree that they like the temperature nobody's on the same climate nobody is there's no way you you know you you either have someone who's like going through menopause and they're running at like 120 degrees so they want it freezing cold or you have like the the big bear dad who's like got it you've got to have it super cold and so you know then you have someone like Katrina who wants it 90 degrees under the sheets you go in my house and literally Jessica goes to bed in pajamas a robe and cover that's Katrina i'm bro that is Katrina i'm in my i'm in my little underwear without and i'm out like this like sleeping like a freaking starfish and she's next to me bundled up like we're in are you are you an underwear or naked guy what are you i'm an underwear guy you're an underwear guy too yeah what kind of underwear do you wear to bed uh we're trying to get a picture yeah well yeah i'm trying to get i'm actually trying to get your bikini underwear cherry red just so you know yeah there you go now you got Justin yeah i got right there i don't know what's worse i know i mean they hug the boys very wait hold on a second naked naked naked you know i don't do naked naked why first of all you got to jump out of bed and some shit's going down one line of defense yes that's all you want to flip around i feel like that's more intimidating imagine a guy is creeping around my car in front of my house and i walk out in my you know sweats versus me running out naked shit's just going you know and i'm chasing him but imagine how scary that is right i'm saying this guy fucking means business you know what that's terrifying it is terrifying if i saw that shit i'd be like i'm out yeah yeah that's like one of the that's like one of the best strategies to get out of a fight too if you like someone want to go down you like take your clothes off right away like someone's like what the fuck there's like every time there's like a one in 100 chance though you might be wrong yeah hold on oh is this what we're doing it is a bit of row in the dice you know all right we won't fight if you can't fight though you may as well go that right i'm saying if you can't fight and defend yourself i mean you can fight defend yourself and maybe roll the dice yeah i think because i've done it before the other thing options if i cuddle if jessica tries to cuddle with me in the middle night and i'm like there's nothing between me and her i ain't sleeping no more bro what you mean to tell me your little bikini breeze is the difference between you get to vote or not better it's better there's at least that that layer of protection i don't think it's in there otherwise yeah i don't dog are you what are you asleep or do you have like a underwear just you're not like i sleep hot so i don't you guys don't feel like the it's like get the lines run on you and feels too snug and tired your business doesn't want to breathe you are you are you free ball during the day or what what's going on you wear underwear during the day yeah but i'm also awake and doing stuff and i can adjust every two minutes if i need to i'm trying to sleep i'm trying to comfortable whatever bro listen i don't want to be restricted this is why i don't share hotel rooms it's like my thunder vest yeah i know this is hey hey doug this is why adam always request that he shares a room with justin yeah this is the reason right here i know the truth is now revealed well what are the what are the i mean i would love to see the stats on this uh is men in particular because i think men are more likely to sleep naked right even though i know there's women that obviously sleep well i keep it prison back back to your theory if a woman runs out at us at a burglar naked it's not to do the opposite going nowhere i'm gonna wait this out so i'm gonna see how this goes down right here what are you gonna do exactly which way are you gonna go which way are you gonna go thanks hey real quick i hope you're enjoying the show look if you want to get nutrients into your body you don't just want to take them and then they come out of your pee you want to get them in your body where they're needed you want to absorb them this is a big deal by the way a lot of supplement companies pay no attention to this so you end up with really expensive urine well one company in particular has mastered the delivery process they actually use a process that was designed for pharmaceutical companies it's called live on labs and they have many many different products i like their glutathione that's really good they have alphalopoic acid b vitamins vitamin c and much more in fact if you go to liveonlabs.com that's l-i-v-o-n-l-a-b-s.com forward slash mind pump you can actually order any of the products and then get a sample pack of all six of their other products for free so again head over there get your free sample pack and notice the difference all right here comes the rest of the show our first caller is madi from maryland madi what's up man how can we help you hey how's it going first of all i just want to thank you guys for being the best fitness podcast out there thank you guys so much a little bit of background about myself i started working out around when i was a 16 years old i was pretty morbidly obese i was like 280 pounds and i dropped weight pretty quickly like in a year i got to like 220 but ever since then i've been fluctuating between being i think at the lowest 215 to 280 up and down um you guys know like the cliche story basically someone who just does a lot of hip training does a lot of high intensity workouts um i did i did at certain periods in my life train for strength but i never until doing maps and a ball like which was uh i did i started my first phase i started my first run of maps and a ball like about six months ago up until that point i never did like one structured program i took programs online like free free programs and um i made some of my own programs but i i never had like a particular program but i did lots of hip training i did some strength training here and there but nothing consistently um now at the current set i am now i'm about 510 uh 200 and um 50 pounds when i first started maps actually when i first started maps i was 228 pounds but after listening to the podcast i thought maybe i should bulk up a little bit to get my metabolism up because at that point i wasn't dropping weight lower and i was eating consistently around like 2300 calories a day and i wasn't dropping weight so then for the first time doing maps like all the phases i was in a bulk and i was just using my Fitbit to gauge where my calories should be whatever my Fitbit set up on that day i was just eating that much food and i got up to 250 pounds then after i finished maps for the first time i started it again and and i guess about after the first phase i went from 250 to about where i where i am now no i went from 250 to 244 and i sent you guys some body fat scans i don't know if you saw but basically from the from the end of the first phase of maps to where i am a couple of weeks ago i dropped about 5% body fat and i gained about 5 pounds of muscle my question is right now i'm eating about 2,300 calories to 2,600 calories give or take i want to know because i still have like a lot of body fat to drop my biggest goal is to get to a healthy body fat range which for me like i i think i want to be like 15% body fat maintain that but i feel like i'm worried that because of my past experience i'm worried that i'm going to drop calories too low and go crazy there or i'm just going to be eating too much and be in a perpetual bulk i just want to know where i should be with my eating in terms of my long-term goal which is getting to like 15% body fat there's a lot there to help you yeah so moddy you let me get this straight you you you went from 215 to 250 during that first bulk are you talking about with you when i started maps yeah no no no i went from like 230 230 240 to 250 okay which one is a 230 or 240 because that's because 20 pound bulk is a lot over the course of three months and a reverse diet is a lot unless you gain 20 pounds of muscle which i i don't he gained five was a 20 pounds muscle i think it was like i think it was like 238 240 i mean like that my weight fluctuates a lot every day so okay that's like the range i get okay because because there's a couple things here first off when you're trying to do a bulk and or to speed up the metabolism you do want to do it slowly so that's why i ask you that question and if you if it was just like aggressive like weight gain then what that screams to me is you weren't tracking your reverse diet or your bulk and well he was but he was going by his Fitbit which i wouldn't recommend doing yeah and sometimes what people do is they say okay i'm gonna go on a bulk and they eat more than they should and because it kind of gives them a little bit of you know looseness and they end up going too far so okay so now we're we're at a position here we're eating 2,300 calories you want to get that up higher so that you can burn body fat and then have a comfortable kind of maintenance position and it's going to be the same thing i'm going to recommend that you do a slow bulk and i think you should do assault a slow bulk on a pretty consistent basis but interrupt it with a week here and there of a maintenance or even a slight deficit so it would be something like three or four weeks of a you know 400 calorie surplus and then maybe a week of maintenance or a hundred calorie deficit and just kind of stay on that path and let your metabolism slowly build up and it might take some time because of what you've done in the past with your body and kind of the tendencies that you're moving to maps and a ball is a great program for this maps aesthetic if you can handle more volume would also be a great program for this but that's where i would go i would i would i would constantly and consistently with again those interruptions of maybe a slight deficit work towards getting your metabolism to kind of speed up and give it some time don't do an aggressive bulk don't allow your weight to go up or fluctuate so heavily but do it in a kind of a slow comfortable pace and allow things to to reverse out i'll be even more specific so i think we have enough information from where you were where you're at right now kind of what you did and by the way you didn't do a bad job i think you were kind of close to be honest with you i think the mistake was using the fit bit as your guide to tell you oh eat more calories because those things those things i and i by the way i love tools like that so i i use them like crazy i used them all through competing i think they're a great uh another piece of data you can use to help kind of guide you but if you use it as your true north uh you can get in a little bit of trouble and it sounds like that's what we did it sounds like you allowed it to dictate your calories and you probably did a little more than you needed to um so yeah so where you're at this is what i would like to see i like to see you at 2,500 calories a day for three weeks pretty consistently every every fourth week a week in a deficit to 2,100 calories so that's only a 200 calorie surplus with a 200 calorie deficit for a week and you're doing you the month average out is i think a better surplus for you it's going to get you closer to what kind of sal is alluding to with the you know less of a calorie surplus and just focusing on on bulking so i think you had the right mindset i think you were doing a pretty good job i think you just kind of overshot it it doesn't take that many extra calories and one of the best ways to ensure that you don't continue to stay on that path of over consuming is by interrupting it like sal was saying i i'd interrupt it for a full week in that week i would keep myself in about a 200 300 calorie deficit for that whole week and then go back to the bulk every time you go back to the bulk my goal for you if i was you were my client would to see if i can inch you up a little bit more so let's say the first three weeks i say okay maria i want you to be at 2,500 calories let's hopefully kind of maintain your weight i don't want to see a big fluctuation a couple pounds up i'm not worried but i see you moving up pretty fast i might pull back a little bit but i'd like to see you kind of stay with your weight around where you're at right now while also knowing that i have you in a little bit of a surplus i'd like to keep you there that 2,500 for three weeks then i put you in that deficit for one week and then when we go back to the surplus again i might go to a 2,550 or 2,600 and then and that would be the goal is to just kind of give you an extra 50 to 100 calories you know every fourth week till i can get you up to a place where you're like 2,800 or 3,000 and i know you said on your i don't you didn't say it to the audience but you wrote it in your thing that you're you feel good you like you're you're comfortable at 2,300 calories so that tells me a lot as a coach that okay he likes eating around here so my goal is to probably get you up to 28 to 3,000 so i could then pull you back down to 23 to where you're eating comfortably but then your body is nice consistently losing weight now did you see your running maps anabolic and uh is that the program you run right now yeah i'm running maps anabolic um basically what i do because because the gym is so packed whenever i get off work um i usually run it two to three days a week but what i do is some days depending on how packed the gym is i'll split the workouts in half so i do like half of day one on monday and then the other half on tuesday and then go to day uh workout number two etc no that's fine okay yeah i like that what do you guys think about like um tracking progress though because the thing is is like i i do want to drop the weight but like i understand that the muscle mass is what's really important i feel good whenever i have more muscle but the thing is whenever your body fat percentage is so high it's hard to see like that that reflection in the mirror should i just continue to get body fat scans i know that they're not the most no they're not but you they're not but if you have the same if you're using the same one and you're consistent like every month it actually will be a great gauge you'll see the trend yeah you'll see a trend so don't get don't get so hung up on if it says 25 percent or 12 percent it doesn't matter with the percentage so much it's okay you have a baseline wherever it's at right now and then as a coach if i give you this instruction to now increase your calories and we follow exactly what i said on that one month mark i'm going to want you to retest and the only thing we're looking at is the difference of where you were when i told you to do the calorie surplus and to follow what i said and where you're at body fat percentage and if i did my job really well you've added muscle and lost a little bit of fat and really haven't moved that much on the scale and if i see a major fluctuation south or north i'm going to adjust as a coach so if i see at a month that your body fat percentage went up okay well we added too many calories i should have only added a little bit like maybe 50 calories and i'd go the other direction now if i noticed that you didn't really move very much at all i might go the other direction so use that as just kind of a compass for you not so much you know hung up on the percentage but if and use the same same place or whatever you're using use that same same tool every time same day same time make sure you're like this if you did it in the morning where you weren't fed you didn't drink much all that stuff matters you can really manipulate those that's the negative part of those things is if one time you did it on thursday at three o'clock in the afternoon after you've had two or three meals and a half a gallon of water and then the next time you test you test first thing in the morning on friday you know dry no water no food that could really fuck this the swing up and you want to be very consistent with how you do it and then that will really help us decide which way we should go and if you're not in the forum already we'll put you in the forum so you can kind of check in with us so i do you have the forum yet i do not okay so doll have dug get you access to the forum and then you know when you hit that one month mark give us a give us a screenshot of the before you know or three months ago or three weeks ago four weeks ago excuse me uh body fat test to now and then the guys and i could really easily adjust you from there you could throw it also monitor your strength if your strength is going up that's a good sign you can also use circumference that's another one your waist uh is just your waist measurement for men that is a relatively accurate consistent way to measure fat gain or fat loss uh because we tend to store you know body fat around our waste i mean that's it if you got strength or circumference of your waist the the consistent body fat test you have a really good idea of the trend of the direction you're going i like strength though the most because if your strength is going up and your weight's staying the same or it's going down there's a good chance you're building muscle and burning body fat yeah it's i mean it's it's crazy i just want to thank you guys so much because literally like on other programs you know you just feel i feel like so tired and depleted and i know like this is probably and compared to the past like this is the time where i'm eating like at a slight deficit and i'm just getting so much stronger and it's just it's like what am i what is this program you know so it's it's it's really fun i just really appreciate thank you guys so much for what you do it's magic for sure thanks for calling in thanks money of course thank you yeah that the the when you're dealing with somebody who's been really heavy in the past and then they're trying to reverse out it can it's a it's a it can be a slow process and it can be really challenging to stay consistent with that well i think you hit it right on the head when you you said to him about you know uh you we tell people to go in a bulk and they kind of yeah you know oh cool i'm on a bulk and if you follow the Fitbit and you allow it to tell you how many how many calories you burn i mean you can manipulate the the shit out of that thing so again i i think i i like the Fitbit the most out of all of us but i'm very careful to not that's not my end i never used it like that like telling me what i should do yeah really what it is is is the more metrics you have the clear the picture yeah if it's just one metric you see not trends yeah like if it's just body weight i mean that doesn't tell you a whole lot body weight plus body fat percentage now you know more body fat percentage weight and circumference okay now we're starting to see a clear picture now what about your strength now we see the whole thing that's right and that's the that's the key because if you just go off one met i mean if it like if it's just weight on the scale i mean that's i can manipulate that seven pounds in one day you know and same thing with those body scan so when you look at all of them you get a much clearer picture and what you want to do is look at the trend not necessarily stressing over the fact that it went up a half percent or whatever over the last two weeks but rather over the last three months which direction is this moving our next caller is billy from utah hey what's up billy how can we help you hey guys what's up uh thank you for taking some time to answer my question this is awesome to be talking to you um a little background i have been lifting pretty consistently for about two and a half to three years um have spent a lot of that time in kind of a strength phase so heavy lifting low reps a lot of linear periodization kind of progress progressing that way um what i've noticed recently probably over the past three to four months is a i've been a little bit burned out on a specific lift and it's been the deadlift um to the point where when it shows up in my programming i i kind of really hesitate to to go to the gym and get a get a little bit um you know it's a little bit harder to get to the gym just because it's showing up in my programming which is interesting because it was one of my favorite lifts before um one that i made a lot of progress on but for some reason i just felt burned out on it recently so my question is is is this something you guys have seen before um on specific lifts kind of getting burned out on it and if so what could i do in the meantime if i need to take a break from it to not lose the strength in the and the progress on that lift i love this question because i don't think we've had someone actually asked specifically something like this yeah but this is uh this has to happen a lot that's right and this is a perfect example of why you know that's why there's no perfect program for anybody that's why there's always an exception to the rule that's why there's there's more to it than just this is the best exercise that burns the most body fat and builds the most muscle because if my client uh is just hates doing something and it will even discourage them potentially from going to the gym that day or they just skip an exercise all together that's part of my job as a coach to insert something else in there that they enjoy doing that i know has tons of benefits yeah or taking it out but it really depends on what you mean by burning out on the exercise that'll determine the answer that i'm going to give you so what do you mean exactly is it that it's hurting you that you're noticing that it's uh your your progress is stalled or going backwards it doesn't feel good like what do you mean by by burnout you have more stress like in your life and things kind of going into this because that's a very demanding lift um so yeah so so so a couple of things on that no it isn't hurting me um i haven't been injured by it um it's more of a mental block than it is um you know going in and not being able to perform the lift or anything like that so it's more of a you know just don't feel like lifting a big heavy bar off the ground uh when i when i get in there um regarding stress my life justin yeah i mean we've we had a we had another kid about a year ago um start a new job in in march had a couple of other stressful things so i guess the last year the last you know 10 to 11 months have been an increase in stress so that certainly could be adding to it yeah that sounds like it so um okay what program are you following right now um i haven't been consistent on a single program for a little while um i had been following uh bigger leaner stronger by mike matthews for a little while oh there's your mistake right there that's the problem that's just it right now the guy writes good books yeah yeah yeah okay so you were following that and then and then what do you are you currently doing that or did you modified a little bit no i've modified it a little bit my consistency has not been as great recently i've still been going three to four days a week into the gym um i recently just restarted anabolic because they felt like maybe if i take a step back on volume and um and run through that again that might help break through it a little bit but that's kind of where i've i've restarted anabolic most recently yeah good no that's that's perfect okay so and by the way do you mind if i go into a little detail because you actually wrote us out your question with more detail so okay absolutely so you have another kid this is kid number seven is that correct yeah yeah holy shit this is beyond minivan yeah bro that's you need a full blown bus yeah yeah god bless you god bless you by the way yeah and you just be great dude you just became a ceo of a of a company yeah so in march yeah the new job was was a ceo of a company that some investors bought out so two of probably the most stressful things clinical stress yeah so okay so what you're feeling right now is that your stress bucket is overflowing and exercise is a stress on the body so and that's why it gets your body to get stronger and deadlifting is probably one of the biggest it is and if you if your stress bucket is overflowing the workouts are now no longer helping you but rather hurting you maps anabolic two foundational workouts a week i think is where you need to go don't do three do two now you're going to the gym three or four days a week i also read in your question that this is a good me time for you i get that so it's not just going to the gym to work out but rather center be present kind of get away from things walk mobility yeah dude go okay so two days a week two foundational workouts for maps anabolic the other days you go to the gym mobility stretching walking like do things that kind of rejuvenate your body and make you feel good and what you'll see is your body will actually start progressing again now back to your specific question about deadlifts unilateral deadlifts single-legged deadlifts i mean you're still doing that movement but it's one leg it's way lighter it's with dumbbells and it will if anything not just maintain your strength in the deadlift but might actually improve it or increase it this is one of my favorite strategies because there may be an underlying thing there too in terms of like an instability that needs to be addressed which then you know will actually promote you to be motivated to you know go back to the deadlift and see what kind of loads you can you can you can put up but a lot of times it takes that sort of zooming in and and really like staying in there to see like you know the discrepancies between left to right and in addressing those will really help the overall strength i also want to give you the option to do something completely fucking different you know if you're following a bulk of maps anabolic and the only thing that we're changing out as a deadlift listen i haven't deadlifted in over six months so it's not the end of the world if we don't do a deadlift variation right now i mean this is a perfect example sometimes this is where i'll get on a kick and i'll be like you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna get strong doing the turkish get up i haven't been i haven't really focused on getting good at my turkish get up in a while and i know it's not in my maps anabolic program but every time the deadlift comes around that's what i'm gonna do instead so don't don't feel like and this is why our programs are moldable this is why we have the podcast is why we have the forum to kind of do things like this if you there's an the an exercise or a movement that interests you or that you know makes you feel better or you know that you you have a lot of room to get better at like inserted in there right there i mean i just i just this is the area yes the deadlift was programmed in there and it was a brilliant written program by us and that's the most ideal thing for progression for you to put in there but that's where this is there's a lot of room to to play with that because sometimes that shit doesn't you getting an extra quarter of a pound of muscle over the next month versus de-stressing and having better balance and being a better ceo that trumps that yeah well you're not going to gain that quarter pound of muscle if your stress is that's right that's right that's it's not going to happen are you um are you taking any supplements right now i am i'm taking uh i take creatine i take a fish oil and i take a multi okay um vitamin d so look into ashwagandha okay it's probably one of the most well documented herbs to help the body deal with to deal with stress okay so and what it does essentially is literally it's a very powerful adaptogen and it allows the body to deal with stress and adapt to stress a little bit better uh i personally use it you know i'd say every two or three months i'll throw it in or when i feel like i'm not getting good sleep or you know i'm much more challenged with stress and i do notice an improvement in in how i feel and how my body reacts so you can read up on it check it out examine.com is a great website for looking up supplements uh but aside from that you know what we're saying with the workout is i think where do you need to go and don't be surprised if you start to progress again but also consider this this is the most important thing your workouts should be to improve the quality of your life not necessarily to improve your quality of your workouts okay so sometimes it's to improve your workout performance but what's more important is i mean you're not a professional you know lifter right you're a ceo you're a dad with seven kids uh i'm going to assume that your priorities in life are probably not to be the biggest beast in the gym but rather to be an amazing dad and a great ceo. Just be stronger than your kids. Yeah so so use the workouts to make you better at those things so sometimes that means like adam said you go to the gym like man i feel like doing something totally different because that's what's going to make me feel better and if you do that believe it or not in the long term you'll progress because you're going to make better choices and decisions for yourself great great that's great advice thank you i think um yeah some of that stress relief kind of focus might be might be what's needed right now in the near term so um give it a shot all right billy thank you very much and uh are we going to go up to 10 11 how many kids you want cutting this off i think seven has uh has overfilled the cup as you guys you're a champion man all right man thanks for calling me yeah thank you broy talk about uh like it makes you feel weak seven kids ceo dude i stressed out and he works out consistently yeah wow yeah that's a that's a tough one because i think we forget right that because we know where we were before so we think ah you know two days a week that's too little for me it matches your lifestyle and sometimes that's totally appropriate and i've done this where i'll back off and voila my body progresses and i go oh this is a lesson i have to keep well i think what you said that is even more important is it's not always about progressing in the gym i know that's what our business is surrounded around i know that's what makes our program so amazing is could all that stuff but at the end of the day you you hit it right on the head this guy is a father of seven and a ceo his number one priority isn't i got to show that i can get my bench press up to 315 like who gives a shit i know he he obviously doesn't care that much about that but we always get this in our head all time that you got to be seeing all this great results have to be the best at everything yeah just keeping healthy you know sharp and strong yeah those are like very like realistic things to focus and i and i totally relate to this right now being a newer father the three of us said that's where my priority is and then and then actually performing in this job i mean i've got a lot of responsibility when it comes to our business and a lot of things in my play and if i'm so focused on my workouts that it's taking time away from those things then yeah and so my workouts are completely modified right now it's to stay healthy and to be able to perform at those things that's where my priority now just go back two and a half years from now it's was chasing sal in the deadlift or getting ready for a stage well that's a different story you know and yeah eliminating a deadlift at that time when my goals are so focused on that is something that i probably don't want to do but in a case like this like that who cares well and even that sense like it it's always amazing like how little you can do to keep moving the needle forward totally and i think that's the message that we're always trying to kind of drill into people because it's it really is less as long as it's like very structured and and you're smart about it and and you listen to your body you're going to get a lot of results yeah and the irony is this right the right dose i know he'll probably progress yeah so i'm saying here's the irony the right dose will get you there the more than that is too much and less than that is too little and won't get you that right so it's the right dose so here's the irony you train the way that we're talking yeah and over time you make more you get better gains and better results anyway right you know so it's not even like you're trading one for the other if you want to progress you still have to do it this way our next caller is elijah from texas hey what's up elijah how can we help you hey so um i had a question about uh some trt diet stuff so a little bit of backstory former air force got out i got lazy got fat had the realization that i needed to make changes so about three years ago i peaked at about 314 pounds we basically changed our entire lifestyle i now maintain about 235 but i've been dealing with some symptoms of low t for a long while now even after the fat loss so um thanks to some of the conversations that you guys have had on the show especially um adam i pursued that and i'm now two weeks on um the initial dose that they're putting me on for trt um already within a few days i'm starving all the time um so right now i maintain about 3000 calories and i don't know whether i should kind of stay at maintenance for a little while obviously i got to get used to everything they're going to dial in the dose but after that do i stay at maintenance and try and recomp or push calories up slowly and see how i respond and if so how long before i should probably jump into some type of um you know cut phase because i do still have some some body fat to lose yeah no good question a couple things do you mind if i ask what your testosterone was at before you went on to trt uh so the initial diagnosis test was like 320 i had another test at like 290 something and then they did another one that was like 357 okay and in starting dose do you do you mind if you let us know what the starting dose is in milligrams just 100 milligrams a week you're only on 100 okay you're not what you're not with dr rand then are you no yeah you must know it's a local clinic that my insurance covers oh i see okay dr rand is the best in the business so i would go there and he usually starts people off higher nonetheless uh what you're noticing is quite normal so testosterone is a metabolism boosting hormone if they give it to men who don't even work out with low testosterone they'll lose body fat and build muscle without even working out so it just shifts the way that your body uses nutrients and where it shuttles them and you will typically if you look at the research it takes about four months or so before people start to kind of settle down so initially sometimes people feel way more energy libido goes through the roof that'll settle down a little bit and their appetite goes up quite a bit as well these are actually good signs okay they're good signs it's telling us that the testosterone is doing its job but also realize it's going to settle after about four or five months typically again if when you look at the literature now if you were my client what i'd recommend is to go with it i would say look here's a deal stick to whole natural foods prioritize protein eat until you're satisfied okay don't eat until you're stuffed eat until you're satisfied and that'll keep you probably where you should be now if you hyper palatable foods processed foods i should say your your calories gonna go up naturally if you don't prioritize protein you're more likely to eat too many calories so high protein whole natural foods continue doing your workout and then just eat until you're satisfied and kind of give your body what it needs and what you'll probably notice is you're just going to gain muscle and then what happens is the body's fat starts to come down because of the metabolism boosting effects of the increased muscle mass i'm going to predict that at some point they're going to probably increase your testosterone dose 100 milligrams a week is typically barely a replacement dose from what i understand but again you can get a consultation from someone like dr rand and what they'll do is they'll go over what your clinic's doing and then give you some advice and you can go back to your clinic and say hey this is you know kind of what i want to try but this is not a bad sign this is a sign that your testosterone's it's working you're in a great place right now you're in a great place right now in the fact that you're already consuming 3 000 calories and i know your question is asking us you know what you should do whether you should cut bulk recomp what you should do right now well the answer is you can kind of do anything you're in a healthy place calorie wise you obviously your uh your your metabolism is speeding up and you're and you're hungry you're now personally if i if you let me tell you what to do what i want you to do i mean your body is basically primed for building muscle and it wasn't so much not that long ago uh with your testosterone levels as low as they were now that you're supplementing with testosterone you're going to build muscle better than you ever have before and so i would want to go with that i'd want to instead of going into a cut right now which you could because you're at a healthy amount of calories i'd rather put calories on and really focus on getting strong and building muscle and i would want so if you're a client i our goal would be okay Elijah i'm gonna i want to keep inching your calories up until you get in a place where you tell me like adam that's this is i don't want to eat all this food and then i go back the other way with you so i'd keep inching you up trying to build strength until we reach a calorie intake where you're looking back at me saying like uh i feel like i'm eating all day i don't like this much food can we go the other way and then i'd bring you the other way and and try and land you somewhere kind of probably where you're at right now calorie wise but work you up to probably 3600 plus yeah i mean keep this in mind you're this is this is a very good sign if you feed your body properly you're going to be fine yeah you'll build muscle now if you take this increased appetite and then eat a bunch of processed garbage then yeah you're going to prop you're just going to gain muscle and body fat so you'll get this huge bulk effect right but if you eat whole natural foods prioritize protein what you'll do is fuel muscle growth and then your metabolism will boost and then at about like month three four five now you're going to start to burn body fat and the body fat really starts to come off your body because of the this sped up metabolism effects of what's happening right now so not a bad place at all again feed your body just stay away from those foods that you know are engineered to make us really overeat because then it'll just be too much of a compounding effect okay I'm I appreciate it that's awesome Elijah what workout are you following right now um I do my own programming um I do I've been doing a push pull legs six days a week okay modulate intensity and you know volume yeah I'm gonna put I'm gonna send you maps aesthetic if you don't have that great program for building muscle uh I think you're in a good place for it right now especially if you've been doing what you've been doing for a little while so if you don't have access uh we'll send that over to you and then if you want that consultation you want to inquire about it you go to mphormones.com and they'll look over your current protocol and then tell you what they think you know would be would be good for you okay that's awesome I appreciate it no problem thanks for calling in thank you yeah this is a different situation right than the average person yeah no I mean but what a great place to be eating 3000 calories still hungry taking your testosterone levels two ninety three hundred and probably now shooting them up to 900 plus I mean your body is just you know so I guess you know he could go and cut right now if he really if because he's got extra body fat but I would much rather you keep building muscle yeah I feed the metabolism it's already trying to you know bump up and you and who knows how long he's been training with this low of testosterone which you know we've all experienced low levels of testosterone and know what it's like to try and build it's very hard to build muscle when your testosterone levels are on the floor and one of the best parts about getting on hormone therapy is having optimal testosterone all the time it makes it a lot more fun oh yeah I mean now now so long as you don't eat like an asshole like Sal's talking about I mean you you will add and build muscle and speed the metabolism up I would go right with feeding the body I tell you what though just kind of a side no it is quite it was very surprising to me to real and of course this makes sense this is true for any business right the difference in expertise and recommendations from one clinic to another well he sounds like he's at a clinic I was the first time yeah that's what I'm saying when you went to that first one and they were you started you off on 100 and you're looking at your numbers and like I still I feel better but I still and then you go talk to Dr. Ran and he goes you know that's important but we also got to go based off of how you feel and it can fluctuate depending on the man and androgen receptor density and all that kind of stuff a hundred is in you know typically typically low if you're going to go on replacement well my take away from it in my experience is that you you'll get these clinics like this and ageless men was like that and I think that they kind of like how NASM would tell you not to shoulder press deeper than 90 yeah you know it's like a safe like well we don't want to risk going to guards yeah so let's be conservative and put you on the lower end when in reality it's like you could handle double that no problem they inch me up like 10 milligrams at a time by the time I got to Dr. Ran you know I'd already inched up like four or five times and he still is like oh my god I would start you at almost double that that's nowhere near yeah and it's you know what it's old school it's it's a it's a old understanding of testosterone because the the research now and I'm not even now for the last 20 years shows it's only because it was a controlled substance because for a while there are athletes are using storage but no no no it's not it's of all the hormones you need to be careful for testosterone is a pretty damn safe hormone so this like fear around moving it up is totally unwarranted and I you know I like I said when you talk to people really know what they're doing it becomes quite clear so our next caller is Ruth from Washington hey what's up Ruth how can we help you hey there guys really happy to be here thanks so much for taking my email so I originally wrote my email because I have about 20 pounds left to lose and I really want to do it through weightlifting alone but I just can't seem to find the right mix so a little bit of background about me and I feel like my story can be extrapolated to many people particularly women but men probably too some 3959 originally gone to fitness through cardio a surprise surprise did a very uncomfortable marathon at one point eventually found a really high cardio dance fitness class and ended up instructing that for a number of years and then at the end of that I kind of got through that time I lost a lot of weight after my last baby who is now eight and at the end I kind of started dabbling into weightlifting felt like I loved it just felt really good in my body started with some five by five and I really wasn't able to sustain all of that with my teaching and I was in grad school at the time so had to kind of focus on the cardio with my classes that I was teaching at that time long story short I graduated from school started a full-time job as a nurse practitioner and ever since that time I kind of gradually increased my weight a little bit but I started strength training regularly about three years ago so I'm kind of in this place where I'm wanting to lose these last 15 20 pounds having a difficult time and time is very precious I have three school age kids plus a full-time job which is one reason why I love weightlifting because it is so efficient and I know my body is made to do it my problem is when I reduce cardio I seem to have a harder time losing weight consistently like I really want to just do the weightlifting because it feels the best in my body I've tried various calorie macro setups I've tried various kind of programming I'm currently in phase three of maps anabolic right now and really liking it kind of staying around the same weight I'm tracking we can get in the details of that if you're really interested I listened to your podcast about why women should bulk and I was like yes I am on board so after a spot check and realizing I wasn't eating very much I did increase my calories and did that for about three months I got up to 1800 or so and felt actually my workouts were feeling fantastic as you'd expect by increasing calories and I was doing pretty well with that but realized after three months I had gained some fat along with that which I wasn't really a fan of so I'm kind of in this place where I really want to bulk and increase my calories but I can't seem to do it without cardio at the same time so I'm really curious trying to figure out that optimal dose for me I think a lot of other people probably are in the same situation so I'm really curious to hear what you guys have to say yeah this is really common this is this was Katrina when Katrina and I met this was she was strength training like three times a week running three to four times a week her way of kind of maintaining her weight or getting in shape would be to ramp up her runs and just run more and she was probably eating about 1800 calories or so and by the way okay so she's well maintains like better shape today at 40 years old than she did in her 20s only strength training and not running and consuming over 2600 calories so it's very much so doable and I think you were heading on the right track or at least in the right direction and maybe what happened when you put on maybe you put on a little extra body fat that you didn't like or maybe it wasn't that bad at all and you were more in your head and you decided to reverse back down because if you are only eating 1800 calories and you're exercising this much we need to what we need to do is speed your metabolism up before you get to a place where you can completely cut out cardio and stay at a place that's sustainable with just weight training it's just your your calories are too low for all the activity that you're currently doing and that's why you're feeling that any time you cut out cardio which is probably burning you know a few hundred extra calories every day that you're doing it is making a difference that's a big difference when you're only eating 1800 calories it says it says your question you're running or doing spin for your cardio yeah i have been i just started spinning again a little bit i haven't been running recently i'm dealing with some kind of si joint stuff so running is no bueno for me i've been doing mostly walking right now actually and just kind of started to add in spin back in about 30 minutes maybe one or two weeks yeah there's there's nothing necessarily wrong with cardio but for what you're saying you know you don't want to do it you'd rather weight train plus you're trying to speed up the metabolism i would stay away from the spin walking's fine it's it's healthy for you but here's something else you can do okay because i've done this with clients all right we're going to cut the cardio to get the metabolism speed up but we want to kind of burn more calories in our workouts to need to kind of help a little bit with what might happen initially you can add volume to your resistance training you've been following maps and a balik i would go maps aesthetic it's a very similar program with more volume you're going to burn more calories in the workout it's still a muscle building program and then i would cut the cardio out i mean you do the you do maps aesthetic three foundational workouts a week with two focus sessions that's a decent workload you don't need to throw any cardio in and then slowly reverse diet get get your calories up 1800 is not really a good place to start from if you want to try and burn you know lose weight i'd like to see you get up to you know 2500 calories at least and so i love that yeah so do that i mean focus on the muscle building right maps aesthetic you can cut the cardio if you want to keep walking because you enjoy it and it's good for your health that's totally fine don't do the spin classes that's probably the worst for what you're trying to accomplish and now you're doing more volume in your workouts right so now you're lifting more weights which does burn more calories as well but it's still geared towards building muscle and how long honestly were you able to keep in the bulk in terms of like being able to uh you know stay there for a few months uh you know like how long was it so i was doing another program um a hypertrophy both hypertrophy based program through girls girls gone strong they have some pretty good programs too i love your guys is trying different things it was about three months that i that i tried that um i wasn't tracking my food the whole time so 1800 is probably about where i was at which to me felt like a lot of food coming from where i was at previously here's a here's a strategy if you're not one to one account and track everything just track your protein so try and hit your protein targets and then avoid heavily processed foods and just eat until you're satisfied this does not mean eat until you're stuffed or really full but rather until you're satisfied so focus on protein whole natural foods and then train to build strength and then kind of allow your body to do what it's going to do that usually moves people in the right direction now if you want to get more specific i would definitely track for some people though tracking is it makes it worse or makes it a stress or they feel like i don't want to you know have to count everything i would also be interested too so the the program that you are running the one that you said was hypertrophy focused i'd be curious to actually see the programming if that means it's more 10 to 15 rep ranges supersets and kind of focused in that direction where you're probably chasing the pump more versus like a five by five type of protocol it was actually a mix of it was similar to your guys as there was four weeks of a kind of strength focus and then and then there was kind of a higher rep focus at the end so because i yeah because you're gonna benefit the most from a you know strength focus five by five type of a routine for for bulking right when you're trying to bulk that's when i would i would love to see you and then we would maybe we just thought we just talked to another person had a similar question i would just interrupt the bulk every third week or so third or fourth week with a one week uh calorie deficit so run the bulk for three weeks straight after the three weeks then then drop your calories two or three hundred calories lower than what you would consider maintenance of maintenance is 1800 for you one week out of the month run a 1600 calorie week and then the other three weeks uh stay in more of a bulk uh and that will probably help keep you from putting on uh much body fat at all on on the way up and then the goal is every time you go back to the bulk is trying to increase the calories a little bit higher and higher until we can get you a place where you're more like 25 2600 calories uh that that is a more sustainable place to be calorie-wise to be able to never do cardio and get yourself lean because then you can get we can get your maintenance at 2600 and you say to me hey adam i want to lean out a little bit it's coming up on summertime or whatever i like to drop a few pounds of body fat we can easily without doing any cardio go from 2600 down to 2000 and your body's going to lean out real nice and you're still eating a sustainable amount of calories versus if you're at 1800 as a maintenance with doing cardio if all of a sudden you want to lean out you gotta drop yeah you gotta drop to a place that's just not gonna get down to 1200 calories yeah you'll eat more than you are now if you do this right and get lean yeah okay it is possible it i mean it seems like very daunting but like to to kind of stretch it out you know even further and and do it very gradually is is my best advice yeah maps aesthetic follow maps aesthetic cut out the cardio you've got plenty of volume and maps aesthetic you're working out five days a week and you know follow what we're saying with the nutrition and watch it creep back watch it slowly creep up and be patient allow that to happen uh when you get to a good place you do the cut it will feel you'll feel better than you do now Ruth are you in our forum yet um i am not okay so i'll have Doug give you access to our forum too so you can kind of check in with us i love when we give people kind of prescripted stuff to do as far as diet goes to kind of just check back with us in a month and just let us know kind of your progress and we're going we can help guide you better that way that'd be awesome cool yeah thanks for calling in okay thank you very much guys no problem yeah the taking someone who's done a lot of cardio and then telling them reverse cut the cardio out it's like they'll do it for a little while and then ah gotta go back to what i know yeah especially when your background is in like spin and running and you know and you love that kind of stuff it's really hard to go against the grain well it's a it's a mind fuck and that she's in a very similar situation katrina was i actually wouldn't let katrina weigh herself during this time so it'll mess with her head yes so i i knew the inevitable is gonna happen i cut your cardio i tell her stop running you know 10 15 miles a week i completely cut that out all focus on strength training i and and increase your calories i know i'm gonna put some weight on her a little bit and weight that she may not like so the last thing i need is her looking at the scale and seeing three pounds it's not working yeah you don't know what you're talking about so i was like okay part of the rules are don't look at the scale just trust the process let me do this with you and then it you know it took a while to get her there but we got her to a place where she can eat 2600 plus calories otherwise you're just in this sort of manual place where you have to always kind of shave that down by adding this little bit of like excess movement and cardio and so you're going to be in this trap of always trying to like you know shave off the fat build try and build muscle not quite effective yet but then shave the fat and it's just like you're spinning your tires well dude 1800 calories she's working out five days a week yeah including spin including working out like not sustainable you're just not going to be able to maintain that yeah because you think about that her her resting metal bulk rate is much lower much lower so if you yeah she's active yeah if you're doing all that work to maintain at 18 that means if she wasn't doing it that she couldn't eat much more than 12 or 1300 calories without putting body fat on which is not a good place you want to be able to be at a place no flexibility right where if she ate 1800 with no activity her body would actually lose if that's the case we need to be somewhere up in the 2500 plus type of range metabolism wise in order for that to happen totally look if you like our information head over to mine pump free dot com and check out all of our guides we have guides that can help you build muscle or burn body fat improve your mobility squat better we even have guides for personal trainers again it's mine pump free dot com and if you want to find us on social media you can find us on instagram you can find justin at mine pump justin me at mine pump sal and adam at mine pump adam