 Hello. Hello. What's up, everybody? It is a great day for Azeroth. It is a fantastic day. I'm here with Stay Safe. I'm here with Tips Out. I'm here with our guest, Crom. And we finally have a release date. We finally have a beta date for WoW Classic. So, guys, clap some of the chat. Good job. We did it. We accepted the release date, and we accepted the beta. It was really hard work. So, yeah, guys, if you haven't heard yet, of course, beta is coming out tomorrow. Beta is coming out tomorrow. It's going to be a closed beta. We'll talk about that a little bit today. The actual release date is going to be at the end of the summer. So, you got beta at the beginning of summer, release date at the end of the summer, a little bit later than a lot of us had hoped for. But still, it's still coming soon, and that's going to be coming August 27th. So, very, very excited about that. So, okay, let's go on and start. Right? On top of that, it sounds like they're having three stress tests, right? The one on May 22nd, June 19th, and June 18th. So, while the beta is closed and will likely open up as time goes on, I would guess, and I don't know if they want to details on this, I would guess that the stress tests will be open for everyone. So, who knows if you'll be level one or level 30 or whatever, right? But even if you don't, nobody knows. Right? Even if you don't get in the beta, and who knows, all you can do is fingers crossed, I guess. But it sounds like everyone will be able to participate in at least three stress tests. Yeah, let's hope that would be really cool. So, yeah. Basically, let's go ahead and address. There was rumors and stuff that leaked out somehow beforehand. But basically, what happened, I guess this would have been a week ago, Blizzard ended up having a media creator summit, whatever. I guess that's what you would have called it. And this is something that a lot of game companies do this. I know Riot does this with League of Legends. They'll invite people out to playtest stuff beforehand. They'll invite people out to playtest stuff, do some recordings, get some direct feedback, talk to the people, interface with people. And we got a chance to do that. TIPS Stay Safe and I got a chance to do that. And so, yeah, that's basically, that's how we got the beta footage. And we don't have access to the beta right now at home. It was all in-house. So, if you guys haven't checked out our YouTube channels, you can check those out right there. Check out our YouTube channels. We posted some videos today and we're going to have a lot more coming whenever the beta comes out tomorrow. I'm sure we're all going to be on top of that. So, you know, I should definitely do that. Check those out. Yeah, the world's first, by the way, world's first beta footage. So, very extreme. True. That's true. Like, I was going to say, as far as like us being able to play the beta, actually the alpha down there as well, it's sort of akin to, you know, how when a movie comes out, they have like media do a private screening a week or so in advance so they can write their reviews and get articles written in advance and they can all drop it on release date. It's sort of similar to that. That's the way I look at it. Yeah, so that was really cool. That was a really good experience. There were some things we saw. We got to see the progress of the game so far. Obviously, the game is not done yet. One of the big details about the beta is that it's going to be up to level 30. So, far at least. I mean, we don't know if they're going to extend it or anything like that. I would assume, I think it's a safe assumption that they probably will end up extending it and increasing level cap or something because the in-house demo that we played or the in-house beta that we played for like seven hours, it was level 40. So, I would assume that they would allow you to do that for two reasons. One, to kind of, I mean, they extended the beta, or sorry, they extended the demo after BlizzCon. I think there was a really good reception of that. I think people are going to be very excited about the beta. But also, you need to be level 40 to test the 31-point talents. So, and that's the big thing about this beta. And this beta is very, very important in order to get good feedback, good testing. And we know that BlizzCon is looking at it, which I think we've all been kind of surprised by this so far, is that they've been really receptive to feedback because just because a lot of us have been, yeah, I think there's a lot of people who are jaded and stuff. But so far, things have been looking pretty good for Classic. Yeah, do you guys have any thoughts? Do you guys want to say anything about the event itself? I thought it was really fun. I thought it was really fun, really cool to see everybody. Very, very well made. It felt like a slice of BlizzCon. I said that in my video. It felt like, do you guys remember BlizzCon, all the different basically areas? It felt like they actually took a slice of BlizzCon and put it there. There were so many ways they could have done it. They didn't need to go all out with the RBG lighting and flags everywhere on the Alliance and the Horde. But it was really nice. It was really cool. Yeah, they definitely tried to make it seem like it was a wow, vibe or wow, or a warcraft atmosphere. I just want to take a second to say, we were only able to go down there because over the last year or year and a half since the Classical Out release in November 2017, you guys have been supportive of S-Fond. You've been supportive of Tips Out and you've been supportive of me. And so because of that, we had the opportunity to go down and get footage and take photos and get screenshots and bring them back and share that experience with you guys. So I just want to say thank you guys very much because you guys put us in that position. So that's what it is. Hearts in the Shop, boys. Hearts in the Shop. Yeah, it's been really, really good. So yeah, I think that was very exciting. So there's a few things, right? There's a few things that have come so far. One of which is layering, which they didn't touch on officially, but this is something that we heard about whenever we're talking to them. Layering is their solution to sharding. After BlizzCon, in case you guys haven't heard of the story already, after BlizzCon, of course, everybody remembers sharding was a big thing in the classic demo. People were freaking out about it. I streamed the classic beta at BlizzCon and then I went up to Ythisin's, who unfortunately is no longer at Blizzard, Sikar on Twitch if you want to go give him a follow. But I went and I asked him, I was like, dude, like what the crap is going on with sharding? And excuse me, he basically said that sharding was like their current solution just for the sake of like, okay, we need this to work for the demo. And they knew that sharding worked. So they were like, okay, we're just going to do this for now. And then we're going to actively try and like find the best solution. So so far, so far they've come up with layering. And I think it's still in development. I don't think it's done all the way yet. But it's essentially how it works is if you take a lot of people saw preach made a video talking about the concept of having like server clusters. Do you guys remember this? Yeah, exactly. So preach made a video talking about the concept of server clusters. And he was like, you couldn't make like a, and I'm just using examples here, like you make like a Illidan one, Illidan two, Illidan three or something on launch. Yeah, they share something and then they merge together. So this is essentially like, it's actually very similar to that, except it's a little bit more robust, right? So it's a little bit more dynamic. What they're saying, you want to explain? Yeah, I was going to say, like, I think with layering, there are some pros and cons. And there are obviously some very, very real concerns. So for those of you that don't know what sharding is, have you ever been playing retail? Wow. And maybe you cross a zone border and the people behind you that are in the previous zone that you were just leaving, they, they disappear. And there are new players in front of you in the new zone. So if you go to Stormwind, for example, on retail, while in battle for Azeroth and fly in and out of the gate, you'll see players reappearing and disappearing on both sides of the gate. On top of that, if let's say you're in Goldshire and there's just too many people, there's so many people there, people will disappear and be put on a different shard. So it's to accommodate higher player populations that are in a small area. And so it's very small scale or region specific or hopping between different zones and retail. And so what they've said with layering, going into classic WoW is that rather than these smaller shards that are region or zone specific, you'll have an entire shard that is essentially the size of an entire continent. So one continent is one shard or a layer, and then you have multiple layers of different players on the same continent. And so it'll reduce the degree to which you see people disappearing and reappearing as you travel around the world and go from zone to zone. That's true in classic WoW with this new layering system. But the problem is that how you transition from layer to layer, you can have someone invite you from your guild or a friend's list. They'll invite you and then you'll be teleported or sharded into their layer if you weren't already previously on it. And so this means that if there's like a big, you know, let's say someone's going to come gank you, you're leveling in Stringlethorne Veil and you have a friend who's on a different layer, like for example, you're on layer one and he's on layer two and you're getting gank, you say, yo, dude, invite me to layer two. No, this is one of the concerns is what you're saying. Stop from dying. This is one of the concerns. Yeah, that's one of the big concerns. Now who knows, they might have it where you can't transition layers if you're in combat or recently been in combat, which would cut that down a lot. But I mean, that seems like a pretty easy solution. Just put like a combat timer on it to prevent layer hopping. My biggest concern is, and I know we've all talked about this in our on our own streams and on our own videos is let's say, you know, tips out has a horde guild and I have an alliance guild and tips out is in Blackrock Mountain getting ready with his 40 Raiders to go raid molten core or whatever. And I say, okay, I want to go gank his guild. I'm going to take my 40 boys, we're going to go gank them. We're going to go fight him in Blackrock Mountain. We could very realistically with the sharding system or sorry with the layering system to show up and we're on different layers and they can't see us and we can't see them. So that's a very big issue. Blizzard has said they're promising that layering will not be there come phase two. I hope that's true. So what do you guys think about that? So, Crum, do you want to go and touch on this? Yeah, I just because I know when they were originally talking about sharding, they said it wasn't going to go beyond the starting zone. Is there a reason why they decided to put layering throughout the entirety of the games that have just this? I'm sure it's a response to like huge player interest, right? Because the point of having in the starting zones is with the expectation that by level 10 or 20 or 30 players will be dispersed and it won't be necessary, right? But they could just see there's going to be so many people that we need to expand it to level 40 or level 50 or level 60, right? Who knows? And definitely like you might have like fewer layers for the level 50 plus zones than for the level 10 zones. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Because there will be fewer people there. I'm not sure, but that's like what's on my mind as far as that goes. So I still feel it would be better if they would have just left it to the starting zones and then tested it, see how much of a strain there was on the zones outside and then see if they needed to implement it there. I feel like putting it in right of ways just kind of goes against the whole point of it, like stopping sharding. I don't know. It just feels kind of awful. So here's the thing. Here's the problem with sharding the starting zones. And I did think, and I like I said this before, like if they ended up going and just starting the sharding zones or sharding the starting zones, then it would be a thing that's like, okay, if this goes and it works, whatever. But the problem with sharding the starting zones is that you essentially, you have bottlenecks, right? For example, the first bottleneck, the tightest bottleneck is level one, right? One of you create your character. Because if everybody logs in, creates the characters at the same time, everybody is at that starting point. Now, if you have sharding in the first zone, let's say you have sharding in Elwin Forest, and then after that, there's no sharding, you basically have a time to stretch out that bottleneck. And that time is, well, it's important because people are going to level the 10 faster. People are going to level the 10 at different rates. So you basically spread out the player base, and then you can trickle people in, right? But there's still going to be a bottleneck there because people are still going to be sharded and this and that. So there's going to be like, people are still going to be able to get mob tags and whatnot. And it's just like a natural thing, obviously. So it would come down to how fast a player levels on his own, right? Or her own. Excuse me. So yeah, so basically, on their own. So basically, you do that, and you cause another bottleneck after Elwin Forest. So that is one of the big issues. Now with layering, the concept of layering and a layer, I think a lot of people don't understand this. I think layering has its issues as well. But a layer is basically, this is what they said to us, it's going to be like the original vanilla while server cap is going to be a layer. And you log in, you're in that layer, and that way you don't have to worry about dynamic response. You don't have to worry about, they don't have to change any sort of weird things with like, okay, they have this spawn here, that spawn there, everything can be just like vanilla. And then your layer is like the same size as a retail vanilla while server. So it's like, you have this and it's in here. But then you can also have more people on the server. So you could have, let's say that 3,000 number, right? 3,000 number, 3,000 number, 3,000 number. So you might have 9,000 people, 6,000 people, 12,000 people on a server. And then that way you can have that many people actually log in and interacting with one another, at least like in the different chat channels and whatnot. And then- So I mean, at the end of the day, we'll still kind of have a shittier, like we'll still be a ton of people in the zone anyways. Right, because it's still going to be 3,000 people in the zone. It just won't be 10,000 like Northdale or like the private server experience where it's- Right. And that's the thing. It's like, do you want the private server experience or do you want the retail vanilla experience? Now, with that being said, layering does bring its own set of issues. Like Stay Safe talked about like being able to go into another layer if you know that some, if you're like interacting with somebody that you know is in a different layer, that's going to be hard to kind of predict like account for, I think. Just like being like, okay, like we know that somebody else is in a different layer and he's ready to invite me. Okay, boom. Well, maybe not. Like you might be following your layer and somebody can just log in and come to the same zone as you. There are like quest monsters or high value like rare monsters. Well, I'll use Hogger as an example though this will unlikely be the case for Hogger. Like let's say I'm trying to go kill Hogger and Hogger is down on my layer and I've got a buddy of mine who's, you know, near Hogger on his layer. I'm like, yo, dude, you can invite me to your layer and I'll go check with Hogger's up. Like that's a very, not necessarily the Hogger himself, but for other mobs, that's a very realistic scenario. I think so too. I think I think that's another potential issue. So I got a quick question though, just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Wouldn't that be the same case with sharding as well though? That behavior that was always going to happen with sharding where you could shard off and find another Hogger somewhere else. That's my understanding. I'm guessing what with this layering stuff. Lizard probably looked at sharding and said, okay, what are the big problems with sharding? Number one, not having very many people in an area because sharding and retail, you only have like 40 to 80 people in like a single area before people get phased off. The second problem is people phasing off as you're walking around through the world. It's very immersion breaking. As you're walking through, yeah, Elwyn Forrest, you go into Goldshire, all of a sudden a whole different set of people are there or nobody's there. You know, you're walking around Ironforge, this guy disappears, that guy disappears, this guy comes out of nowhere. That's probably the second biggest problem and it sounds like layering is a solution to those problems. I guess I'm not quite sure that I understand. What is the major kind of concern between sharding and layering? What's the problems that layering introduces that sharding didn't have? Basically, I think the big difference between layering and sharding is that layering is going to be large-scale and sharding is small-scale. Because it's so much larger-scale, it's not going to be as immersion breaking, which is a good thing. Now, the other issue is that it seems like you're going to be able to have more control over moving into a different layer and whatnot. Having that control is important because you want to group with somebody and you want to go in their layer, obviously, but that control could also be bad. Yeah, I want to add on to that just real quick. My big problem with layering seemingly is that you have more control over it than sharding and you can more easily manipulate it to your own benefit with a monster respawn like a rare monster or let's say there's a black notice spawn and on your layer, the black notice is down and you say, Yobro, invite me to your layer and I'll go see if the black lotus is back up or whatever resource. Chests, open world chests, you can hop from layer to layer potentially and just farm world chests. The way you can control to manipulate it to your benefit is the primary concern. Other than that, I think the large scale, like I said, a layer isn't essentially a continent-sized shard, right? Right. And that's one of the pluses that it has over sharding like we see it in retail, but obviously there are these negative drawbacks as well attached to it. Yeah, I think so too. You have the question, right? People say, okay, well, what if they just have more servers, right? If they just have more servers, then you wouldn't even have to worry about layers, whatever, and you have more people spread out. There's a few problem with this, and this is one of those like 2019 problems, is that there's going to be more than, like, I mean, you look at private servers, right? There's going to be more than 3,000 people that are going to want to play on a server and be able to log in to that server at any specific time, right? Like, that's less people that's in this stream right now. That's one issue. A second issue, and I'm going to call on some like private server experience, I guess, literally like history, but like you look at Zeth Core, right? Zeth Core, this is whenever Elysium launched, Elysium, which eventually became Lightbringer, Elysium launched stability issues, there were too many people playing, okay, we're going to launch a new server called Zeth Core. Zeth Core came out and it was fine at first, right? There was people who transferred off, went to Zeth Core and it was fine, it alleviated a lot of the stress on Elysium and all that, but inevitably, and this is something that is going to happen with Classic. I think with anything that's this hyped up, you're going to have this big spike and then you're going to have the big dip and then it's going to level out. That day one is going to be absolutely insane. This is actually a major, major issue. I think it's a big obstacle that they've got to figure out how to overcome, because it's going to be a rough day. There's still going to be Q times. This is going to be something that they're going to need to find a solution for, right? I don't think there is. I just think it's a completely unavoidable situation when it comes down to the technical side of it. It's just you can never prepare for a server overload no matter how much you put into it. There's just nothing. Here's like the reality of the problem, right? Let me finish my thought because I'll forget. I'll forget what it is. Just to finish real quick. Basically, the idea is that you can have essentially digital servers, which is what the layers are. You have these digital servers that are made dynamically as people fill up into a server, then you don't have to worry as much about having to merge servers later on. Zeth Core, after a very short period of time, ended up dying off. Whenever Zeth Core died off, and if anybody has been a part of a server merge in retail vanilla or in retail WoW ever, you probably remember that it's kind of cool if you, oh, okay. We're like the refugees, whatever, going to the new server, but at the same time you lose your community. You lose your name. You lose your guild. You end up not knowing who people are. And at the end of the day, you eventually end up losing your community, right? And that's something that's a really, like the social aspect of vanilla WoW is supposed to be really, really strong. So what they're trying to do is they're trying to come up with a solution very similar to like the server clusters, whatever that Preach actually proposed, except it's dynamic and you don't have to worry about merging. So that way you still have your community whenever inevitably some of the population dies down. I think that's the primary thought behind putting in layers, but then again, there's all the other issues that it has too. There's the other places for like potential like exploitive behavior, right? So anyway, sorry, Stacey, you can go down. Yeah, I think that there are some things that they have to do to make layering as least intrusive as they possibly can. I think the first thing they have to do is put like a combat timer. So if you've been in combat within like 60 seconds or something, you can't hop layers. So if you're getting ganked or you're going to die to a mob, you pulled too much, you can't have your boy invite you to do another layer and just save your ass in that situation. I think like they also have to make it so, you know, if you're in a high level zone, there's obviously at all points through time going to be fewer people pretty much in the burning steps than there are in Elwyn forest. So I think like they need to make sort of the layers converge at higher level zones. Otherwise you're going to end up with situation. Does that make sense? Otherwise you're going to have a situation where I can't see tips outskill and that is a very, very big problem. That's really bad. That's one of the biggest concerns. And I think that's like one of the hardest problems to fix right now because I really think the combat timer thing is a very easy fix to like the ganking issue that people have been talking about all day. But I was going to say, excuse me, the reality of like finding a solution to this problem is that they're never going to find an answer that is going to please everyone. Like there's going to be a demographic of regardless of which solution server merges or just insane login queues, no sharding, just 17 hour login queues or layering or more traditional types of sharding. Whatever they choose to do, there will be a demographic of people that are angry and don't agree with it. And so really they have to just try to choose the solution that will piss off the least amount of people, right? And it's from an outside point of view or maybe from an inside point of view, it's very hard to determine what that is. And it might be this, it might be not, but I think that probably like if there are any Blizzard staff watching, like I think that within the next week, you should have a really big blue post and address a lot of the concerns with layering and talk about like really talk about it because today they did not talk about it very much. Like we know that it's going to be there and we have some footage from interviews with them, but I think they should really deep dive into layering and talk about the ways it might complicate gameplay or ways you're going to minimize, minimize the ways that it complicates gameplay. I think they really need to talk about it because it's like a very real and legitimate concern. A lot of players have right now. I honestly think talking about it is a waste of time right now. I think the best thing is just to start testing it. I think that before you commit to any kind of system and even, you know, specify certain systems, just start testing it, man. Like we have these stress test weekends, get as many people in there as possible. I know they scheduled I think three of those weekends, schedule four, five, six. It's not like anybody's going to complain. These guys got nothing better to do on Friday and Saturday nights. We're all going to be there anyways. Let's get us all in there, we'll test layering, we'll test sharding, we'll test every kind of system we can test. And it'll be very, very obvious by the end of it, which system is better than which. Well, and I think, yeah, so sorry, I thought you're done. Well, yeah, I mean, at the end of that, you know, release a blue post saying, okay, hey, guys, you know, we brought you guys out to this and this, we on this one, we tested this way on that one, we tested that way. And these were the results. And this is what it looked like you guys want. So this is what we're going to something like that. So I think that like to really test layering, you have to have a diverse level of population based on a server, right? So you need like, you have these layers that are overlapping. You know, how is this, how is this going for the level 10 population? Because it's all the same layers. How is this going for the level 40 population? You know, like it's, you have to test like all of these avenues at the same time. So I think it's going to be hard to stress test that I really do, to see how it really impacts like a living server, because I said it could be there for weeks. Or at the latest, it'll be gone by phase two. So how is layering going to impact launch week or launch day? How is layering going to impact month two or month three when people are trying to rate and gank each other and people are getting world buffs and I want to snipe to those world buff stuff like that. You know, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Maybe I think here's where I'm completely off. Is this supposed to only last like a week or two? Isn't that what they told us? Well, no, they said so Ian, Ian has a customer said that ideally, it wasn't going to last more than a month, but 100% for sure. They would want it gone by phase two because it wouldn't make sense because now you have world bosses and stuff coming in phase two. So it doesn't even work. Yeah. So this, this is one of my, I wish we had asked them when we're down there, like, why are they confident that it won't be there when phase two starts? If it's, if, if it's, if layering is there in phase two, that is a big problem that cannot happen. Why are they confident that they won't need it come phase two? Are they counting on some other tool they're, they're working on to take over and replace layering? Are they counting on just super stark population drop off or I'm wondering why they are so confident because they expressed it many times. Why are they so confident that they won't need it after, after four or five months, whatever, whenever phase two comes out, right? I'm not necessarily sure it's that they're confident. It's just that they probably recognize that having it in in phase two is a lot more detrimental to the game and to the image of the game than not having it. So they're probably like, holy crap, phase two, we cannot have it because if there's two Kazakhs on a server, people are going to meme the shit out of this game. Well, that's probably why they're getting rid of it. Yeah, it just doesn't work. So it literally just doesn't work in phase two. So, you know, a few things to mention, you know, talking about the stress test and stuff. So this is what like, and this is what, I don't remember when this happened, but like, specifically remember mentioning like, whenever we got a chance to talk to people at Blizzard to devs, bringing up the concept of stress testing, right? It's like, okay, like whether you guys do a beta or stress testing or whatever, the best part, this is what I remember saying. If you guys do a stress test, then what I think would be a really good idea is if you have a stress test for whatever sharding that you have already, whatever new system that you come up with, but then also a stress test for let the kids freaking play, like just roll it out there, know nothing, see what happens. Like if you have no other system put in there with like, and now I said 5000 people back then, I'm sure they would have to test it with like 10,000 people and just see what happens, right? Because I think there's a few things, I think there's a few things that comes out of this. One, Blizzard gets the data they need, they get to see what they need to see. It's like on a large scale, right? Two, the community, the people playing the game get to see so that we can understand, okay, this is how this is going to play out. This is how this looks. So that way, now that you have Blizzard sees it, the community sees it. And then the third thing is Blizzard also sees how the community reacts to it and what the community wants. Because at the end of the day, what people really want is people want to play vanilla while like as it was as much as possible, right? So whatever they can do in order to get it as close to as possible to that point is I think the most important thing, right? And I do think that layering is better than dynamic response. I do think layering is probably better than sharding, but here's something else to consider. Like nobody has really seen layering in action and we're not going to get to see layering in action until tomorrow for the first time. So nobody really knows how it's going to happen. Well, it depends on how many people they have in the beta, right? Like, there might not even be enough people in the beta to justify it two layers. Right. I have no idea. Who knows? Yeah, because it certainly wasn't that way before, right? Absolutely. Yeah. What do you think, Ron? What do you think? I don't know. I just, I'm a little bitter towards the entire layering subject. It just I'm not sure it's like the right solution. I mean, I get the downfall with like the bottlenecking and stuff, but I just think like, no matter, I think no matter what, they're going to be running into problems. I think even if they layer it, even no matter what shot we're on, we're still going to be like struggling for mobs. Most of us are going to stick to our leveling tactics. We're going to push out. We're going to be out of the zone before everybody else. Hardcore levels always have the edge. Everyone else is going to experience it just like a regular MMO. It's just unavoidable. Even for MMOs that are brand new and just starting out, even their launches are just as chaotic. Layering outside of the starting zone, I think, even if you're worried about a bottleneck is rough. I'd rather just deal with a bottleneck than all those issues you guys are talking about. I mean, phase two, world bosses, yeah, you could avoid that exploiting, but what about the mountain of exploiting prior to then? I just see that being too much of a problem. Once you get outside of the starting zone, that's where you can make money. That's where the money is. This is what I was going to mention. It's like Black Lotus on different layers and stuff. I mean, I just choose one. Black Lotus or any sort of nodes or any sort of resource that you're trying to look for if you're doing devilsoar farming or whatever, trying to layer hop. Now, like I said, I do think it's not going to be super easy to layer hop because you have to be in contact with somebody. Are you in a different layer? I don't know. Let me run all the way to you. Okay, I'm in a different layer. Okay, let me hop over to your layer. Now, somebody actually made a good point. I'm not super familiar with a lot of Korean MMOs and I've heard that this is similar to what BDO does. I don't know how similar, but I have heard it similar. Main Season was saying that they use something called Channels and this sounds very similar to that. They don't work while in combat and they have a one to two-minute cooldown, at least in most Eastern MMOs. That's the thing. Nobody really knows. Nobody's seen it in action. They didn't even announce this officially at the event we were at. They just kind of talked to us about this whenever we brought it up. This isn't even something that's completely done. I think it's in development. They're still working on trying to figure out the best way to implement it, but this is just kind of what they're leaning towards now. And that's just them being transparent, right? Let me ask this. Because I've been streaming all day and it's been a long day, have they in a blue post starting or layering today? Or is all the information we have from the meeting that we had a week and a half ago? I'm pretty sure it's all from that meeting, which is why I think people are very upset because we don't have a concrete, like we've explained it during our streams, but it's a difficult topic to explain. It's very abstract. And the way it was described to us was very abstract. I really, really think that within the next week, they need to have a very long blue post explaining exactly what it is. Because surely they're going to be able to explain it more articulately than we can. Because they know it better than we do. And so I think they need to like over the next week, like receive player feedback and just listen to concerns about it and address each of them. I really think that that's what needs to happen. I mean, I got to be honest, every concern that I've heard so far is this as a concern and sharding, like hopping layers to get nodes. Well, yeah, that's what we were pissed off about sharding for. Like people are going to hop like hop shards. So I'm curious if there's any new concerns specific to layering that sharding doesn't have or vice versa. Are we kind of united in the fact that layering seems to be a step up or at least half a step up from sharding? I think it's a given to take, right? Because obviously it's like one giant shards, there's less people just randomly disappearing and reappearing. But the problem, like I said earlier, I think is the control you have over it and the way that you can manipulate it to your benefit. Sharding is more like random and incidental where layering, you really could coordinate it and benefit a lot from it with monster response or nodes or chests or whatever. So, well, and here's another thing, like people keep saying like, well, this is the same problem with sharding. And like, why didn't you just go with sharding? Because sharding is just the starting zones. Layering fixes the problem of having to worry about respawn times of everything, right? Because there's no dynamic respawns, right? If they don't come up with dynamic respawn system, which even Nano, who worked on the Nostalgia team, his quality assurance for Nostalgia says that dynamic respawns are not good. And he thinks that it would be a really bad idea for Blizzard to go with dynamic respawns. You still have the issue with having too many people being able to not do enough things, not be able to get enough mobs or whatever with sharding if it's only in the starting zones. So, what they do with layering, if a layer is the original Vanilla WoW server cap, like I said, there were like 3,000 people, then, which is plenty healthy, like there's like some private server memory, you see like 3,000 people online and say, oh, dead server, like, is Elysium dying? Like, it's like this whole meme, right? But it's still 3,000 people. That was the original Vanilla WoW server cap around there. So, the idea of having these layers be that many people and they don't have to adjust respawn times. They don't have to adjust anything else and they can just let the kids play. From that aspect, it's better, right? But again, like I said, we've said this already, but we don't know. Nobody knows until we get to actually see an action starting tomorrow. And then that's the point where we really have to give our feedback. Yeah, that's a big if. That's a big if, too. We don't even know if we're able to test it tomorrow. Yeah, I mean, the best thing, I mean, the best thing for everybody is if I mean granted, say everybody gets access to beta, bless everybody. But if, you know, to test it out, I feel like, I mean, even if you're going to do layering, when I say starting zone to let me clarify, like what I mean by starting zone, there's like two phase starting zones for each class or each race, right? Like you have, you have the zone where you spawn in and then outside of the wall, your secondary starting zone. So for like orcs, you're at, you know, you spawn in and then you go outside and then you have to go to send Jin village, right? And then you do the troll quest, move up to Razor Hill. And then after that, that's your starting zone. Then you choose, do I go to the barons? Do I, you know, do I go to another continent? So on and so forth. They should, I think they should just leave it for there. I mean, because that's going to be the biggest spots, those starting zones are the biggest spots. And then everyone decides, I don't know very many undead that'll that like the I play with that are like, oh, I'm staying here. I'm not going to the baron. As soon as people hit level 10, most people will skip off and head to another continent for better XP, better quests to get with their friends who didn't want to roll a certain, you know, I feel like waiting at least till that. And then seeing the spread it out, like, I think to start with those twos, because if they, if they're, you know, well, I mean, obviously we can't do anything about that now. But I think while we're testing, if we're vocal enough about it, if we can see, it's not a problem. Like that's a big enough area to fill because that's one to, I want to say 20 almost. That's like a one to 20 zone, just for those two zones together. If I remember correctly. Yeah. And like, so are you counting the Barons as well? No, not the Barons. So, so, so from my understanding, you have like Northshire Valley, then have Ellen Forest. So it's like one to five and then five to 10. And then you have like the Valley of Trials or whatever. And then that's like one to five. And then Durotara is like five to 10, right? Once you exit the walls. I don't know. Like I'm trying to think I'm really thinking through this as you're talking about it. Like one to 10, even for the slowest player is like four, maybe five hours of gameplay at most that doesn't last that long. And so I just don't know, like if I think you like, if we're going to like follow your train of thought, like you might need to have, you might need to have an embarrass as well. Just like add on to your thought because like, well, yeah, that's why I mean test it. You know, I mean, if you're going to push it back more and more, it's like, okay, you have a one to 10. Okay, well, this isn't enough. Let's push it one to 20. And then at what point? Exactly. Yeah. But I mean, at least if you're doing it step by step, instead of just dumping it all out at once, like frustrating your entire community, at least testing and increments to see what works best and then finding a soft middle ground while we're in the middle of beta testing, you know, like if we just let them just make a hard decision and stick with it, then they're going to make a hard decision and stick with it on release and they're going to piss off more people. That's the last thing we want. So I think testing things and increments and pushing criticism, positive criticism about it saying, let's slow this down. We might not need it in the zone. If you guys are testing on a server that has 2000 people and you guys can experience the rush and the burst of people, you know, you'll know better than anyone else. So play it, play it, test it and see if it feels necessary in the barons or whatever zone you get to at that point. It might not feel that way. Just move the whole damn system, dude. Just 50,000 people on each server and attrition will whittle out the week, dude. Just do that. Yeah. And we won't be able to play for two weeks. Exactly. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like the reason why this even is a thing is because they're trying to find a way to like alleviate server load and to make the game stable so that people can actually log in and play, right? If that wasn't a concern, then like this wouldn't even be a thing, right? But you got to think about like, okay, what solutions can we come up to alleviate server load and get people actually in the game that won't make a negative impact on the game or like will minimize the negative impact on the game. You know, and here's another thing, like you got to consider like who, you got to consider who you are, right? And it's also like, so we had this discussion, right? Where it was like, okay, well, you can do this, this, this and this. And like, if you know how to do this, this and this, yeah, but how many people are going to do that? I do think that's a fair argument. I think it's a fair argument that is like, well, not everybody is going to know how to exploit certain behaviors and stuff to their benefit. But I do think that just how everything is now and people talking about it and this and that, I think whenever people do figure something out, it's going to spread really, really fast. And that's the big issue. That's that's the big issue, I think, like most of the people here are going to be the type of person that is going to be able to figure stuff out, right? Like, okay, how can I, I AOE form a pack with a mage, okay, good, get to a different layer. Okay, everything's instantly respond to that because there's something there too, right? Then in terms of like, you know, we're talking about dynamic response, like people being able to mean about dynamic response and being able to kill mobs faster, you could technically kind of do the same thing with layering. Now it'd be harder, it wouldn't be like automated, and you'd have to find somebody else who's in a different layer to help you do that. But it's still technically doable, right? So they just have to find a way to minimize that impact. Yeah, that's the thing. So at the end of the day, a solution has to be put into place. It's not going to make everybody happy. Either you merge servers and piss people off, you shard and you piss people off, or you layer and you piss people off. Yeah, they got to find the best solution. Exactly. So yeah, so hopefully like, I mean, if you guys managed to get into the beta, like if you're watching, if you guys managed to get into the beta, you I mean, give feedback, give good feedback. Don't don't give like, loud, spurgy, obnoxious feedback, because then they end up not listening to you. That's that's something that I think people have learned over the course of the last few years, is that if you have like, good, calm, reasonable feedback, we're like, okay, this is this doesn't work. And this is why and you explain, then people are a lot more receptive to that. Right. So yeah, let's talk about it a little bit. And I know, so so Chrome, Chrome wasn't there with us. But I do want to talk about like our beta experiences a little bit, like getting getting a chance to play the beta for just a few hours, right? Getting to play test it. But do you guys have anything that really sticks out to you? I'll go, I'll go a little bit later. Crom, if you have any questions about the beta specifically that you want to bring up because you weren't there with us. Yeah, absolutely. I'll let you guys go for it. The biggest thing that stuck out to me was how smooth the entire gameplay experience was. It was buttery smooth. The way your character moved, there was no hitches, there was no, you know, janky change of direction, stuff like that. You know, it was just it was classic. But at the same time, it felt like I don't even know how to describe it. I mean, you're gonna have to play to see what I'm talking about. But the second thing that I noticed was the overall difficulty of the world itself. It seemed that mobs out in the world were doing more damage and taking less damage. And Stacy, if I know you had some very specific experiences with that, but that's pretty much how I felt. Oh, yeah. So I mean, like, I do a lot of leveling practice on private servers for like speed leveling and stuff like that. And so when I when I sat down at the beta about a week and a half ago, one thing I made sure I had time to do was level one to 10. And so I tried to compare my my leveling time on the beta to a private server leveling time one to 10. And I've I noticed very early on some very obvious things. And so like a couple of things I noticed, regenerates are two times slower in classic WoW than they are in a private server than they are in private servers. So you regenerate mana and HP way more slowly. So that slows things down a lot. Monsters are way more mobile. Monsters are way more mobile in classic WoW. There's patrols all over the place. Monsters are just running all over the place. And you don't see that sort of monster movement on private servers. You're right. Things are dying slowly. They're doing more damage. They're taking less damage. And that's just what it is. Like it's just going to be it's just going to be a more difficult experience. Absolutely. In classic WoW on private servers. Yeah, I think I mean, people people forget, right? I think the more you play on private servers, the the more you kind of forget. It's like, okay, I've been doing this more recently and kind of get used to something. But Stay Safe and I both did we both leveled from one to 10. And we noticed things. We actually we noticed a number of things that felt different. I don't know. Okay, so say, did you notice that you have more gold or more silver while you were leveling than you had normally? I think I did and I can't figure out why. I really have to go and see like that I just get lucky with drops or something. I didn't experience that. No. Okay, so maybe maybe I just got lucky with drops. And I thought that was kind of interesting because I definitely didn't have as hard of a time leveling up my skills and stuff that I remember having like in terms of privacy or experience. Red Pryo. Yeah, Red Pryo. Hey, that's how it goes. But yeah, streamer loot. So yeah, maybe that's just what it was saved. No, but but yeah, that was that was one thing I noticed. I guess it must have just been luck. But also just like you said, I noticed the differences in like regenerates and the world just being very lively people moving around more the Pats going into the like going into different caves and stuff you'll notice it's just just stuff's placed out a little bit differently. So I actually I didn't have the same experiences you tips as far as like the game being super smooth. Playing Paladin, I noticed that I had certain spells like judgment. It wasn't ever hitting right whenever it hits. So normally whenever you cast judgment, how it works is you load up a seal, you use your judgment, you basically take the energy from that seal and like shoot it out from you and you drop the buff and you do damage to them or you put an effect on them. Whenever you do this, like whenever I was using judgment of command, it wasn't going judge boom instant damage. It was always judge and there was like a little bit of lag time and you could feel it. If you go watch my videos, you'll see it. And if I mean, assuming nothing has changed, I think it's been fixed. I felt the same thing on the demo and I'll show you I'll show you guys tomorrow. So all right, that's what I felt in the moment. I'll show you guys tomorrow whenever we're doing the beta. But that's something that I actually really bugged me. It's actually something that I thought was really, really bad. So hopefully that's something that they're going to get fixed. I don't know why it's happening. Is it because they're doing something to when it's not travel time of spells, it's instant, right? It's a DD. So I don't know if it's something because they're trying to like simulate like spell bashing and stuff. And it's just something that is basically bugged because it's not 100% fixed yet. I noticed the same thing with repentance. I felt like repentance was not applying immediately. So I don't know that that's just in my experience playing a pallet and some little things that I noticed. So if you guys get into the beta tomorrow, kind of watch for that. I think that was something that is going to be very, very interesting. I was going to say, I think as people are leveling through the beta, one to 30, if they expand it, 30 to 40, 40 to 50, whatever they let us do, I think as we play through it, people are going to be realizing and remembering things that have been like long forgotten as far as vanilla web memories go. Definitely there's going to be a ton of differences between private servers. I mean, the two big things that pop out to me, and I'm sure you guys have some examples as well, compared to private servers, so crit reactive prox are not working the way they do in private servers, right? So we tested that as fun and I tips, I think you tested that as well. Also quivers, which like increase ranged weapon attack speed by 10% or 11% or whatever, depending on depends on the quiver are not scaling with wands as they do on some private servers. So, which is actually, which is not good for me as a warlock, but that's what it is. But yeah, like, and tips, tips mentioned, I watched your video today tips, the fire rocks in Tenaris, how they on private servers, they don't have the fire ball ability. It's interesting, I watched your video and then I looked in the, in a database, the database listed the ability. So it's interesting that a private server wouldn't have that. But those are there in classic WoW. So there's going to be a ton of mob abilities and just weird little things that people had no idea were wrong or never even thought of. Now we're going to like sort of rediscover, because vanilla WoW ended a long time ago, 13 years ago, right? There's just stuff, even if you played, even if you played a lot back then, there's just stuff that people forgotten. That's, that's just how the human mind works, right? So it's going to be a, it's going to be like, like relearning something. It's just going to be really fun, I think. Yeah, absolutely. Whoever plays warrior, you know, rejoice because we get buffed in the classic beta. That's all I'm going to say. But yeah. Wait, how so? Well, I mean, just things work that don't work on private servers. The overpower thing is huge, dude. Like it happens all the time, whether you cleave sweeping strikes or whirlwind, a secondary or tertiary mob will dodge your attack. And on private servers, you can't tap target to overpower that mob. So essentially, it's just lost rage. Whereas in classic WoW, you can tap and you can't overpower every single time. And it's just, it's going to help a lot with cleave damage because, you know, we needed some help there. You know what I mean? No, it's good. It's good. I also charge is better. They remove the internal cooldown on stance dancing. It's probably a bug, but hey, just in case it isn't right, something to look forward to. So when you stance dance, you can literally stance dance without an internal cooldown. Just don't report it on the beta. It's okay guys. It's working as intended, please. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not quite familiar with that myself. But yeah, one thing that there is, I guess a lot of people, I've already gotten this where people will message me and say, wait, I have this video of this happening. I have this video of that happening. Look, it's not to say that this stuff didn't happen or that what people are saying, for example, it's like, oh, look at this guy. He's sitting and he's getting crit reactive procs and whatnot. That's not to say it didn't happen. I specifically brought this up to Omar Gonzalez and he said what they were looking at and what they found was that at one point in the game it did, but by the final version of the game, it had been changed. At least that was my understanding of what he said. I could be wrong on that. People might see a video from, let's say, for example, January 2006, and that's going to be different than a video from March 2005, which is going to be different than a video from December 2006. Vanilla WoW changed a lot. There was a lot of stuff. So in 1.12, that's what they're doing. They want to release the game as 1.12 with the base and then go through and do all the content and stuff like that. That's just how they're going to do it. I kind of lost my train of thought there. Let me ask you guys this. This is completely off topic. I'll just sort of pick up here. Completely off the wall, but this is one thing they said when we were down there. We have a discussion with a few of the classic devs. They said they're interested. What they plan on doing is when phase three comes out, obviously the PVP system is introduced in phase two and then battlegrounds or Worcestershire and Goltz and Altarock Valley are introduced in phase three. They're planning from the get go to have cross realm battlegrounds. And I don't know about you guys. I would like to have at least one or two phases of no cross realm battlegrounds. So I'm talking like phase three at least or phase three and phase four of no cross realm battlegrounds. And then if you have to have them later, add them later on. But I want at least a couple of phases. Yeah, I feel very strongly about that. What do you guys think about that? I don't like cross realm battlegrounds. This is I understand that it might eventually end up being a necessary evil. I understand that it might eventually end up being that. But I don't see that it would be an issue right off the bat. Right. The reason why they added cross realm battlegrounds in the first place, they added them in the 1.12 patch. Yes, it was vanilla. It was added in vanilla. The reason why it was added was because by the end of vanilla, you had servers that a lot of people had quit, like you'd have major faction imbalance and you'd have like high like high horde population, low alliance population. And then the horde was always waiting in queue forever because the alliance so few alliance were queuing that whenever they did queue, they could get in right away. But then the horde would have to wait like 45 minutes for you just for example, right? I'm just I'm just throwing kind of some stuff out there. The idea behind cross realm battlegrounds was they took something that was like horde heavy and something that was alliance heavy, and they match them together. They took two servers that they match them together, except they would take like a cluster of them, right? So let's take five high horde pop and five high alliance pop, switch them around, mash them together, make the puzzles fit, and then that way everybody would have better queue times. Good solution for fixing queue times, but bad solution for or one of the negative impacts of that solution was that it basically hurt your server community a little bit because the rivalries that you have of playing against people on your server and seeing those names and stuff like you remember people like I'm telling you like I remember I remember names from whenever I played on Illidan Alliance, like I remember Piccolo on the horde side, I remember Zextreme from the horde side again, like I remember these names, there was names that come to mind, there were horde players, but I remember seeing them in battlegrounds and then eventually I transferred to Kelthuzad at the end of vanilla after the next patch all that. But yeah, oh that was you, oh wow, that was all you guys, that's crazy. No, but whenever you have cross realm battlegrounds, that's not to say that it completely kills this, but it hurts it pretty significantly. Now what could be cool, right, what could be cool with cross realm battlegrounds if it's added in later on eventually is okay you have your own server thing for a long time and then like at the end of vanilla if people are having problems, okay let's try and fix this and throw in cross realm battlegrounds and then all of a sudden you're seeing people who are big names on other servers and it's like oh dude I'm playing against so-and-so, I'm playing against that guy, that's kind of crazy. That's the one positive thing but I don't think it's something that they should add in. Ideally it's something they wouldn't need to add in at all, but I definitely don't think it's something they should just go in with off the bat. Yeah, I mean the thing with cross realm battlegrounds is that you're not only playing against people that aren't from your server, you will potentially have people on your own team that aren't from your server and this is sort of like this first step towards you know like disposable player mentality that is just permeating retail wow where you queue for literally anything and you're paired with someone and it's like tinder you know you hang out for a little while and then you will literally never see them again. Players are disposable, it doesn't matter what they think of you or what you think of them, your lesson incentivize to communicate and work together because like you don't know their guild, they don't know your guild, you don't know them, they don't know you, it just doesn't matter like that sort of like social contract is not there because you know your interaction is limited to 20 minutes or 25 minutes right. So like I said if it's necessary later on down the road like if you have to add it, add it in later on but at least phase three like I'd like phase four as well we have to see but like I agree. Why have it in phase three? Like at least give it a chance. Yeah exactly, at least give it the chance. I agree, hopefully they and also I think people hear cross realm and they think of like running around cross realm in the world. That's not what cross realm is in vanilla wow cross realm is cross realm battlegrounds or what battle groups are. Again another reason that battle groups were implanted at the end of vanilla was in preparation for arena which you absolutely have to have battle groups for. So you know what actually to that note battle groups are likely something that they're going to have to add if they eventually want to have servers go to burning crusade. But and hey let that be a phase five or phase six. Yes exactly. Something comes later on it shouldn't be something that comes right away or I mean they might not even progress the those servers to burning crusade they might make a new set of servers. That's a whole like not even a can a bucket of worms that we're not going to go into right now but that comes with like all kinds of other obstacles they're going to have to think about. So yeah so battle groups and cross realm battlegrounds that's what we're talking about. They're the same thing. So yeah me I lost my thing here real quick. What are you guys looking to what are you guys looking forward to in the beta personally like what are you guys going to be doing? Everything. At this point at this point there's not one particular thing at all that I'm looking forward to it's just playing it's just playing it's it's been the longest journey as a game or ever. I haven't liked one game I've played really and this is like the one game I want to play and it's like right there I can just touch it I just want to touch it already. Give my granny hands all over it. Right yeah for sure. Yeah I feel like in general I feel the same way Crom I feel like in general there's like gamers you know maybe today I'll play some Overwatch then I'll play some Fortnite then I'll play some whatever play some Dota and then there's like then there's like wow gamers and all you do is just play wow and so for me that's that's what I was you know growing up I was just a wow gamer I didn't play Halo I just played wow and you know outside of private servers like vanilla people have been like homeless essentially right they their game hasn't been there for them and so now it's finally coming back and literally just logging in and doing literally anything like is going to be amazing right. Yeah I agree yeah I mean the big thing with the beta sorry go ahead Espe. Well you can go ahead actually. I was going to say I think the big thing with the beta after we after we tested you know last week just testing things man just testing every little thing like there's there's so many small things here and there that could go one way or the other one thing that I noticed during the beta was you could actually summon people to an instance inside an instance that were outside of the world. I'm pretty sure you couldn't do that back in vanilla you might have been able to I don't know but I'm pretty sure you can do that and that has huge ramifications because all of a sudden people can just literally AFK and Orgrimmar while they're warlocks you know just some of them inside instances and stuff like that. So I will not enable that behavior. I have to run so do you. Yeah so that was the bug actually we noticed speaking of which. Yeah I'm pretty sure it was a bug but that's just an example of some of the many bugs. Yeah I want to be able to wipe buffs like that needs to be a thing wiping world buffs is. Yeah yeah so that's actually that is a bug that we noticed whenever we're doing the demo because we we just randomly tested it to see if it would work I think stay safe try to summon me or somebody yeah that's what it was I want to go respect right because I I tanked an SM Prott Paladin Extraordinaire tanking SM library by the way I did that on the on the little beta test that we had so I I did tank an SM library I were level 40 by the way we're level 40 yeah but basically we stay safe I think it was stay safe who I think or I think it was me that you you try to summon and I went back to respect and you summon me actually inside the instance and then it worked and we were like okay yeah this isn't right so that's just one of the things that they're going to get fixed and you're going to notice a lot of stuff that's wrong like I'm telling you you're going to notice things that are wrong about this this beta oh okay this is wrong scroll over it f6 write a bug report and what they're going to do is they're going to go look at the reference client they have a reference client that it works it is 1.12 retail vanilla wow everything works the proper way it's just that it's they can't distribute it because of problems like crashing it's buggy it's not basically it's not it's not like a quality product or whatever so that they tried to do that initially and it didn't work but they can at least test everything on there and say okay yeah this is wrong let's go back and fix it to make it work like it works on this client so as as far as like submitting bugs on the beta or what we think are bugs this is the big problem right because if playing private servers okay this is the way it worked on a private server this is the way it's working currently on the demo or on the beta is this how it worked in vanilla let me let me try to remember let me go back and try to find a video you have like four maybe like three or four conflicting things that are like was it this or was it this or was it this and so it's actually very hard to like no okay this is a bug I did report this right a lot of bug reports are probably going to be guesses and then i'll have to take those and you know put them up against the reference client that they have internally yeah so so it's going to be uh it's going to be interesting it's another thing like for me like what i'm looking forward to and this is how my channel started like i i my channel started because basically like there really wasn't like good like rep paladin guides and stuff like that and i just randomly started making videos while it was like in between jobs and then that's it kind of went from there but uh i'm i'm very like nitty gritty and i like to test like how things work i like to test different builds i like to test your combos of things and uh that's what i'm excited for is i really really like just want to get a list of things okay i want to make sure i know exactly how this works exactly how that works and uh that's that's probably what i'm looking forward to a lot also like from a personal like growth standpoint um i really want to work on like my leveling route that's that's one thing and and i've talked about it before like i was not like i've never played like as a speed leveler like i'm i understand the end game i understand the end game of vanilla while it's like you know i've guild led i've raid led i've um i'm pretty good at playing a paladin all that stuff but uh my weakness like i can admit my weakness is probably my leveling so i want to go and be able to get my leveling to a point where on launch i'll be able to level quickly and then i might make a second character and then level how i typically do where i just kind of i kind of coast i do dungeons i pvp and all that stuff so yeah i'm very good at i'm very good at auto tagging yes so unfortunately with the beta though you want to talk about the whole pay to or sub to be able to get into the beta thing um yeah i i kind of thought that was weird at first my initial thought was that i was like okay well they um my initial thought was that okay well there's there's one one reason to do this is that they wouldn't want to have like dead accounts getting beta access if they were just like pushing beta access out but then they came out with the beta often thing that you actually had to go and specifically click classic so that's when i saw that i was like oh i think i mean a few people mentioned this to me like rick mentions this to me uh amongst amongst some other people um and i was like oh yeah like what the hell so uh i don't know i i i'm usually pretty i'm pretty like objective about some stuff like this and it kind of just looked like a cash grab to me and i'm trying to think like okay what what could be another reason but it just kind of seemed kind of like a cash grab to me where it's like hey and now here's my personal opinion do not have i tweeted this out do not go and sub to wow hoping for a chance to get into the beta like i mean if you can do that's your money you can do what you want with your money but realistically like that's probably not something you should be doing and then turning around and getting upset about it and throwing a fit about it too late okay sorry guys but like this is this is something that you need to be smart about like okay if that's something you want to do and you want to gamble like that don't get pissed when you get burned right because more than likely like it's it's not everybody is going to get into closed beta of course they're going to open it up and stuff later on hopefully um it's not a pre-order like a pre-order yeah it's not a it's not a pre-order it's it's something that like okay like if you're already playing then they they give it out like that uh i don't know that's how that's how i feel about it like if people want to do that great do what you want to do with your money i'm very like that's just my general thought you do what you want to do i'll do what i want to do but i personally would not recommend you doing that and then getting your hopes up and then because you're setting yourself up for failure right exactly you're paying for a dice roll basically yeah paying for the privilege of rolling a dice yeah it's like a loot box almost exactly dude it's just just battle for us yeah except yeah it's a loot box except the box might be empty that's basically what it is so yeah i i i agree like i think we all for the same way cash grab and like you know you need to let Blizzard know if you're okay with something or not okay with something with your wallet right that's what they respond to so i would recommend not doing this unless you just unless you literally just don't care about the money you know the beta will probably last two months if you try to have a sub for two months that you're otherwise you know just to try to get a beta it's $30 if you just don't care about the money whatever but personally if i wasn't you know in my position i would not do that i would not do it because like you said it's for a dice roll now um that's the bad part the good part is that they are giving preference it sounds like to older accounts so if you have an account for 2005 or whatever oh they are once you once you bypass that paywall right which i wish wasn't there it sounds like you get preference if you have an older account i wish that they would just get rid of the paywall is that confirmed yeah it is yeah they said that in their blue post yeah i wish i wish that they would just get rid of the paywall dice roll and just have it be like that and i i think that i don't know if you guys notice is there's the world of warcraft beta opt-in and then there's the classic world of warcraft beta opt-in i think that it's really smart separating them is really smart because this is like a really really good way players opting in for the classic beta that's a really good way for them to gauge how many people are interested in playing classic well a good point they can say okay over the course of this week or this month we've had x number of people opt-in so we're you know maybe that will impact their decision making with their servers or whatever right so that was a really smart move on their part and i think that it's the right and noble move to give preference to older accounts get rid of the paywall like it's it's so obvious and transparent what it is like you're counting on people's extreme desire to play classic wow to make you a quick buck where otherwise you know what i mean like i i would say get rid of that do i think that they will no but uh i would say don't don't don't do it now something else that i just thought of um like preference to older accounts instead of school but they realistically they probably do want to mix right they realistically probably do want a mix of like newer accounts and older accounts because there's going to be all kinds of people playing the game now there's a higher percentage of older accounts like people who who you know i played wow you know 12 years ago 13 years ago 14 years ago 15 years ago and i really want to play classic i think it's cool to have a higher chance to get in but they might want to have a mix of like newer accounts and stuff too so i i don't know if it's going to be like a straight up preference to where you have no chance if you're a newer account like you started playing a couple years ago or something um and also i i do i will say this there is something to be said there is something to be said uh about people who are already subscribed and you're trying to kind of like reward the current player base right the people who've been like loyal to the game or whatever because uh yeah i mean that that's just kind of being like reasonable i guess or being just kind of trying to think about it objectively because i mean that's something i wasn't right like i like i'm the first to say like i wasn't like loyal to the game or whatever like wrath came out and i kind of lost it and i and i didn't really play like very seriously for like 10 years uh and then i kind of picked it back up whenever i got back into the as far as i know no beta prior to this has required you to have a sub i mean i i got into the legion beta and the uh the wad beta and i wasn't currently subbed i also think that's like i i also think they should give preference to people who have been in previous betas and have submitted bug reports because i don't know how many people get into betas randomly they log in and they mess around and they never actually submit a single bug report so i think if people have a history of submitting bug reports they should be given preference as well because like what after we have to ask yourselves what is the point of a beta the point of a beta is to fix the game right and so like it's it's not about fun really it's about getting the game good to go to ship and so i think people that like obviously people that have a track record of submitting reports which will lead to the game being in its best and most policy state they should get in regardless of how long your sub is so while i think that people with old accounts should uh you know have preference i think that people that uh have have that track record should also get preference as well you know what's funny is like uh you're talking about how the beta is like to fix the game um but a lot of times people put out betas to like make it a hype thing it's so funny because at least with the classic team getting a chance to interact with those guys and hearing like their response maybe it's the fact that you can just speak with them in person they kind of just think they can talk to us but uh one of the one of the things that they talked about specifically when we were talking about the beta it's like here this is what one of their big concerns was do you want to put out do you even want to put out a beta and it turns into a hype thing and then there's so much hype that it ends up like hurting the actual release of the game and like all the hype is gone so i would say that's probably why it's only one to 30 for now and then maybe they're gonna i think they're probably gonna extend it to 40 and maybe even beyond i don't know but um that's yeah go ahead if you just want to like on the subject of hype not even to deep rail but like it's it was just announced on twitter like both e you and n a are completely sold out of wild classic collector both and both an n a n a u wild classic collectors editions are completely sold out really so uh do we know how many there were because that that's like impressive or totally on it yeah i mean i'm not i'm not sure i'm not sure how many there are i just know i mean seven just in chat so they bought three i know some people that bought two each like people are going nuts on this stuff so i got the way the hype is definitely there yeah i know i i don't know if it was a class i don't think it was a classic specific thing i think it was just like a 15 year anniversary thing because uh whenever they talked about the rewards and stuff of that summit we were at they were talking about like mounts and pets and i was like what i was confused because i i did but it was just like a general wow thing so it's not it's not a classic specific thing but obviously it's like a bronze um it's like a it's like a bronze uh like statue of rag and it's like actually pretty sick so um well rag norose was a cataclysm boss so it's a cataclysm thing yeah uh yeah rag was cat a new meme okay um yeah so so that's uh yeah i think that's interesting uh there's a lot of people who are into like uh collectibles like that like irel irel mount farmings and pets and stuff so yeah i think i think that's cool um let's talk about uh and here guys just so you guys know we are going to go to q and a here in a second and if you guys have any questions of like uh maybe maybe some it's going to be hard right oh jeez i almost broke my method chair um yeah so it's going to be hard right getting too specific about stuff because you know if you want to ask something specific about the beta like you can but like really reasonably like not everything super specific has been tested yet but it might be good to uh if you guys want to ask question anyway about something specific feel free to do that anyway maybe maybe we have so if you guys do have questions tweeted at us tweeted it myself sfan tv chrome officials stay safe warlock tips out baby uh hashtag classic cast i'll go and i'll look through twitter i'll search for hashtag classic cast and we'll do that we'll take questions from twitter first that's generally what we do and then we'll take some questions out of chat as well um one thing that we noticed is that the game is going off the original mount system and this is kind of like an inconsistency right the idea was is that okay they want to go off the original mount system because that's how the game was for the majority of the game um there's an inconsistency but it's different because it's not as much of a systems thing in terms of how it affects other player it's just it's like two different categories right okay if most of the game had the old mount system where you did like tiger training or a horse training or whatever right and then you got your mounts and all that so that's what they're going with but then most of the game didn't have cross roam battlegrounds why is that the case and and they're in two different categories right but it's just like an interesting inconsistency um how do you guys feel about having the original uh the original mount system in the game so this wasn't recorded but uh when we were talking about I think you there for the conversation as fond it was after our video our uh interview with them we were talking about the mounts right sort of casually and they said yeah so we changed the mount system at the very end of vanilla wow to sort of like this was intentionally just to get ready for tpc because they were adding flying mounts which had two new ranks of flying and that's like that's the reason they gave it um and so like I think it's a I think it's a very good clear move to have the original mount system I think it adds a lot to like the rpg element of vanilla wow like if you want to ride a raptor you got to learn how to ride a raptor if you want to ride a tiger whatever you got to learn how to ride tiger right so I think there's that to it um I think it adds like some more flair and I and I actually I might be the biggest advocate for this I really really really want phase one to have the original on armored epic mounts I think that's such an easy win there's no reason not to do it just go ahead and do it like it it it it rewards players that are there from day one and are excelling from day one it's a cool little flavor thing like one thing that like makes things cool is exclusivity and other people not having what you have right and so the people that are that are killing it early in classic wow they get those mounts you know for the next 18 months at the end of vanilla wow or at the end of classic wow you're going to feel like a badass everywhere you go and that and that's sick right so it's such an easy win like I really really think that they should do that yeah I think the armor mounts are sick like I loved having my white my white horse with the the epic mount like I don't even like having the charger to be honest like I've I yeah I I think having the actual item in your bag like like the physical item mount is better than the casted mounts and then there's like a few reasons for that and warlocks have the same thing right so I like having that and I probably will continue to use that because I don't want to get like counterspelled or something while I'm casting it I don't want to use mana and kick into my uh like like like basically trigger like the five second um like the timer for like the five second rule right for your region yeah yeah um so yeah there's there's like a number of reasons why it's technically better like you know if you want to use the charger you can use the charger but there's there's a number of reasons why using like an actual mount is better than the casted mount for a warlock or a paladin um yeah so wait tips you good yeah yeah um it seems like there's two contradicting philosophies when it comes to the mount system okay on one hand they're using the old system when they actually specifically told us that all of their game systems will be even in their patch 112 state and all of their content systems will be rolled out progressively so it's interesting to see that with the mount system they chose the older version of the mount system for the you know the system side but for the content which is the mounts themselves they decided to use the later version of the game so I I don't know if it was like a swip swap it was an accident or something like that but it just even within their own design philosophy paradigm it doesn't make sense that the unarmored mounts aren't in the game but the early version of the mount system is in the game so yeah swip swap yeah swip swap yeah it could be perceived as a swip swap indeed yeah so guys this is what we're gonna do uh and again if you haven't done this already please go follow cram please go follow tips out baby please go follow state safe tv also follow this channel as well if you haven't already if you want to uh we're gonna be very uh we're gonna be really focused on classic uh we have been we're going to continue to be very focused on classic going forward um a lot of good times so I want to go ahead and take it to q and a uh I want to go ahead and take it to q and a and I'm gonna start with twitter that's what I'm looking at that's what I'm looking at my phone um this is an easy one let's go ahead and start with uh this is from green wall and he asked will there be wall climbing in classic so yeah there's not going to be like the there's like two types of wall jumping right there's like the the kind where um there's there's one kind that's not going to be there and there's one kind that's more like wedging I call it I call it wedging and yeah an actual wall climbing like wedging and wall climbing right right so wedging is going to be there so yeah as fun and I both have videos of us wedging our way you know there's the little tunnel like in this in the stormwind trade district where you can jump up you can get underneath stormwind that's wedging you can do that now I don't know about you guys um when I was a kid one of my favorite things to do in vanilla wow and tbc I'm not sure about wrath I'm not sure when this ended I think it was through wrath as well you could go to gold shire and you could literally and also the stormwind gates there are lots of places you could do this you could just wall you could straight up wall jump up certain walls no wedging just just a sheer a sheer wall you could jump up the wall certain wall in certain places and so the pillar on the left side of the gold shire in the stormwind gates you could get up there just by just a straight sheer wall and uh that is not there I tested that that's not there but wedging is there so anywhere you could wedge and it's it's maybe for some people it's hard to know the difference or what what's what and in some some places you're trying to get through it might take both wedging and wall climbing to get there so but wedging is there while climbing is not just got a edge of the wedge all right um so let's start with cram for this question actually this question comes from Lucas Lucas legacy do you feel that the release date is super far away I feel like it should be released earlier cram do you want to go and start um actually does feel really far away I mean I I mean I don't know anything like on the technical side what they're going through so like my judgment's purely just based off of my own impatience but I feel like summer is like long over in August I was kind of hoping everything because like for me like as a kid every year like summer started in May uh I should I want it I want it right now yeah I feel I feel like it's too far away but you know it's not up to me yeah I think uh for me personally it's kind of like well and this is what I said about the classic summer comment I said I think they were just saying something that sounds like fancy like it was like oh get ready for a classic summer like feel good like it's like okay like and technically it is right because this isn't going to be a summer where there's going to be testing there's going to be a lot of information like this is going to be a very like classic news heavy summer I think it's pretty clear already but um you have the beta coming out at the beginning of summer and the actual game coming out at the end of the summer for some of us that's not really a big deal for other people maybe some of the younger folk who are in school that's one of our like college classes start a little bit after college classes start that's a little bit after uh like you know elementary school starts for for those of you guys who watch my channel um yeah so uh that's that I do think that's kind of an issue it is kind of late um but uh but yeah that's that's just kind of my opinion on tips stay safe what do you guys think I mean I'm I'm a fan of release it when it's ready yeah the big the big yeah like the the big challenge with classic wow is unlike any other game that we've seen from blizzard it's not being created on some merits it's not being ported up from the 112 client they took the bfa client and they're stripping it down so that's going to come with a whole slew of unique problems and challenges and bugs that you're really going to have to manually test and just you know brute force it um the way it was explained at blizzcon is you know there are a few like standard you know logic lines they can apply to kind of get most of the game working but the rest is just testing you know looking at something in the classic wow client then going back checking the their 112 reference client to make sure the two clients are consistent and doing that for every little tiny thing so if it's going to be like that I'd rather them take their time um you know just you don't want to see a bunch of small mistakes and small inconsistencies in classic to get it maybe a month or two sooner I just I'd rather them really really take their time because classic comes back only once and then that's it yeah I agree you know quality needs to come first I think that probably when they gave us their release timeline like summer 2019 when we first heard that they were probably like okay we are 100 confident we can have this out in summer the exact month or day it was still up in the air because they needed to do work there's probably some alternate reality where they got stuff done faster and they were able to release it in late july or mid july whatever but like this is when it's ready so this is when it should arrive right it's it's very likely that this is this is as soon as it can come out because that's as soon as they're confident it will be ready and hey that's that's just what it should be like it should come out when it's ready yeah well it's like we've talked about this like a thousand times before but like it's like when do you want it to come out and and I think we've all kind of echoed that sentiment like obviously like if you're a streamer who's your focus is and this is just like talking about it like if you have a vested interest in the game I'm a streamer who my main game is wild classic and I'm finally going to get to play my game again it's better if it comes out sooner but you know what's better than it coming out sooner for me is it coming out later and being better for everybody and the game being better you know what I'm saying so like just just have it come out when it's ready and and not looking at it like so selfishly and I know it sucks for some people because they go out of school and stuff like that like I know but like it's it's better for everybody if it comes out as like as late as it needs to in order for the game to be done right and that's just the truth right it's just bad timing yeah it's just bad timing for college kids so take a semester off no I'm just kidding don't do that it's bad idea um do it college is wasted time yeah yeah now if you got kids leave them with grandma no uh okay so did you see the server set this is a good question from mr gm so you guys should definitely check out mr gm he's uh he's about as good as it gets when it gets to like the the data mining stuff that whole scene but uh mr gms did you see the server setup for the alpha beta you played like how many pvp or pve servers uh we have not seen any sort of like numbers or anything like that for if they want to do pvp or pve servers for how many they want to do for pvp pve servers uh yeah I think it's was this like confirmed I it's I think it's very very safe to assume that they're going to have region regional servers for like oceanic and everything else right um oh yeah I think it's I think it's very safe to very safe to assume that even I don't think it came up specifically um now there's still the concept of like why is there no rp pvp on launch I think that that's something that they should still consider I do think that's because when it comes to having different server types it's like you might as well just allow all the server types anyway right because was there rp pvp in vanilla like I did not play around I think they were I think they came in later yes I think it was 1.8 like I I don't see a good reason not to have them like you might as well just put it in from the beginning just add one or add one or two there will be people that'll play there either intentionally or just incidentally and they'll make grow to like it yeah just not to do it I don't think yeah so uh I think they should add an rp pvp server as well I because I yeah I was I was under the impression that they were added later on in vanilla 2 um yeah so that's that's that's kind of how I feel about that uh I did not see this this is this other part of the question that Mr. GM asked uh I did not check this I personally didn't check this but stay safe you might have uh will the epic mount drops not have any training required with the choice of mount training um so that's not something we were able to see I don't think they're supposed to though I think they drop um I also ah man I oh I'm a serious question but yeah sorry I think that if you haven't trained epic mount riding um oh no I'm sorry like here's how I think he's talking about like a zg tiger drops or something no yeah so let's use bear rivindare as an example because you can get this very early on in phase one you pay for the training which is not very much gold it's like 20 gold or something right and if you don't ever buy an epic mount for 1000 gold 100 mount and you go into stratham undead and you get bear rivindare's mount you can use it without a specific training type so you you essentially never have to pay the insane amount of gold for uh an epic mount it's it's essentially a free 100 mount I think that's how it's supposed to work so you can bypass no there's no such thing as epic training or uh yeah or like there's no there's no artisan or journeyman training there's only epic mounts and non epic mounts those are the expensive pieces there's there's mechanist rider piloting and then cheap mechanist riders and expensive mechanist riders so yeah if you want to save a lot of gold just go get a death charger yeah easy yeah just go get that charger it's only going to take like a thousand runs you'll be fine so yeah you know I uh if you're one of the very lucky people to get that that'd be good so uh let's see I think this is a this is a good question um this is from nillery did you hear any info about how anixia and nefarian head world buffs will work so I think they're going this is actually going to be something pretty big for like the speedrunning community there there's like a lot of little things that's going to change about speedruns like at the very high end that could I think it might significantly impact uh speedrun times like in the private server community speedrunning is a pretty big deal so uh the meta might change quite a bit I don't know we'll see what happens but uh one of the things on private servers is that there's no downtime between world buffs if somebody pops an anixia head you can pop another one right away if somebody drops this somebody drops that you can you can keep doing it like in succession whereas in retail vanilla there's a uh there's actually a timer after the anixia head I think it's like six hours right uh there's a six hour timer after the anixia head is dropped and nobody else can can drop another anixia head so now not every raid is going to be able to go in is going to be able to go in with that so um yeah yeah if you have multiple good guilds in one server um they'll just they'll just coordinate their raids around I think that's probably what it's gonna have to be but then somebody's gonna break hours or what but yeah they'll either all raid at the same time or raid at very different times right yeah I think I think I think that's what's probably gonna be happening it's like you're gonna have like okay everybody uh we're gonna drop heads at this time and this time every day and what I think might happen is somebody's gonna end up breaking and then there's gonna be drama and stuff around that because people are just gonna uh want to pop it now I mean there's already drama within guilds right uh there's already drama within guilds whenever you give somebody the anixia head or one of the item and then they popped it before a raid and it's just like dude like you gotta be kidding me but yeah that's all in the can of worms yeah there's there's a lot of like there's a lot of griefing that will come with whoever gets anixia head right like you if you really want you can go grief someone else really hard by popping it like a half hour before their raid or whatever mm-hmm yeah speaking of uh private server meta and speed running and stuff like that we actually heard a very interesting revelation from Ian has a cost us himself um private server or boss and armor values in vanilla wow were not standardized and that's something that's been debated on private servers for years and how much armor you bosses have and stuff like that they weren't standardized and that's been confirmed by Ian a boss like gar for example has a lot more armor than a boss like you know kelvin's out with a cast or type boss or something like that so I know there's private servers that use static you know boss armor values because they saw it in the beastie area you know back in 2008 or something like that um that that's not going to be the case for classic and same goes for resistance values they are also not standardized and I believe the example Ian gave and correct me if I'm wrong guys I remember him saying this he said a boss could have 200 shadow resistance or it could have like negative 200 something resistance now I don't know if he was saying that as a figure of speed tree actually meant that bosses have negative resistance values which could change a lot yeah I I don't remember actually I think I think I'm gonna step away to go get a drink or something at this time so that is what he said to go into like a a little bit more detail they also said that bosses like uh from vanilla wow and classic wow as well have thematic armor values and thematic spell resistance values so for example that gar was a specific one he used you know gar who was like a guy who's made out of rock he's like a rock elemental he'll have more armor than other bosses comparatively because he's just like a rock right um kelvin's odd for example who's like a caster type mob he'll have less armor but he might have higher shadow resistance and frost resistance because he's like a shadow slash frost caster kind of guy right so and this this is very likely true for all the other bosses as well um this is going to be something like in vanilla wow there was an add-on clock and you would have it and it would log like every shadow bolt that you cast at a boss if you're a warlock and it would uh it would keep telling of how many partial resists and total resists and no resists you had and it would sort of determine the resistance of the boss based off huge data samples and so there will very likely be another uh add-on like that i doubt that the classical team member comes out and just announces all of the all of the armor and spell resistance values but there will likely be another uh uh add-on like that that we can use to like get more precise examples but yeah like uh spell resistances and armor values on private servers are standardized in fact uh all the bosses in next ramus other than kelthuzad have 15 spell resistance on private servers which is just level based spell resistance um things are totally wrong what what this means is that uh what this very likely means you can't speak with total certainty is that classic wow pve content and leveling content is going to be much harder than what we see on private servers mobs are going to things are just going to die more slowly it's not just it's not just bosses that have spell and armor resistances um or spell resistances and armor it's every monster in the entire world a level one wolf has armor a level one wolf has spell resistances very low albeit but everything has armor and spell resistances so you know it's it's going to be fun i think pve everything pve will be much more difficult mm-hmm yeah i think uh sorry i distracted by something real quick um but yeah no i i think i think that's going to be very interesting to see people are going to notice that pretty quickly i think uh we certainly did um here's a this is a good question and i think this is a this is a little a lot of people are probably wondering right everybody's like oh i'm going to take a week off work on classic launch right this question is from mario mario he says if you have a solid week free is it a realistic expectation to at least have a main ready for raiding by the end of that week from launch let's put it at 12 hours a day so 84 hours total if you're playing 12 hours a day for one week i think that you will likely not be max level and 100 ready to raid uh that's probably not going to happen now if you do that for two weeks possibly but uh it just kind of depends right and then you got to like basically be doing everything right at that point um jayson how do you feel about that uh yeah so like the average one to 60 level times slash played is like 12 or 13 days the world record joanna's world record um you should all follow him on twitch also joanna his world record that he set back an actual vanilla wow not a private server actual back in vanilla wow was four days and 20 hours so you're probably going if you're a decent player you'll fall somewhere between like five days and you know 12 or 13 days getting getting that maxing 60 if you have let's say you have a nine day or an eight day one to 60 time doing that within a week is obviously not possible you have to play 24 hours a day um on top of that you mentioned getting pre raid viss and ready for a raid yeah very unlikely i i actually seriously doubt we'll see i might have to eat my words i seriously doubt that regnaros will die within seven days of launch i don't think that's i don't think it's going to happen technically possible technically possible but yeah probably on like if everyone on your roster has like a four day or five day you know one to 60 and they all play 20 hours a day and they like if they're just robots then yeah maybe i i just i don't think it's gonna happen and remember the way that the the system is working at launch there are no dynamic spawns in classic wow every mob or basically every mob has a five minute respawn timer name mobs have more certain mobs have more but your standard mob has a five minute respawn timer and if they do decide to go with this layering system there's going to be two to three thousand people in your layer competing for the same mobs that you're competing for private servers typically do not do this they implement full dynamic spawns to the point where the second a mob goes down at instantaneously respawns right away so you have people literally camping the same mob spawn over and over again to get out of the starting zones and stuff like that that's not going to be the case in classic and they were very the developers were very very uh you know they were harping on the fact that they want there to be some resistance they want there to be some struggle because with struggle comes appreciation intimacy and stuff like that so the launch of classic wow yeah of course um the launch of classic wow is definitely going to be one of the hardest server launches that you know anybody in the private server scene has experienced at least for the past four or five years i would say yeah um yeah i think it's good um this is a good question it's from leon slum where do you guys see classic wow in one year content wise and player based wise um so let's say one year after launch right where do we see it one year after launch uh i think we're likely going to be getting ready for the ak 40 patch we'll likely be getting ready for phase five at that point uh i think the farming soul grew up and acues on the horizon yeah because after uh in retail vanilla wow patch 1.9 which is essentially phase five phase five is patch 1.9 and 1.10 like basically mixed together uh that came out in january of 2006 the game released in november of 2004 so uh you're essentially looking at you know you'll basically be right before that point if they're going with a similar timeline which i think is very likely i think it's very likely that they base their decisions and how they they release content phases close to the original timeline they did say it's not set in stone and they didn't even want to talk about it really because they're like yeah they're gonna kind of go as they feel they're gonna release content as they feel it's the right time to release the content and just how the player base reacts to it but i think that the player base is probably going to um i think if they went with as close to the original timeline as possible it's going to probably be the best thing for the player base that's what i think um how about you guys you guys want to talk more about like player base wise what do you guys think so it's it's funny um you know this was during our interview that we had as on the video that panel watched that um i i asked him like if servers die off would you consider server merges and what they said was he said it's not going to die down man and just like he's like it's not going to die down dude so that's confidence i i don't know we'll have to see i hope stuff doesn't die down i don't think it'll die down now on private servers is that you know around the time aq comes out that is when things start dying right um and it's all i can say it's like instantly dead servers he is slight maybe like 25 population decrease and it's you know like that's what it is so i i think that being said i think classical is going to grow grow or or plateau for its entirety i don't think we're gonna have mass die-offs like outside the first week or two weeks you're obviously for the first week it's gonna have like vacation gamers or whatever hey you're gonna try it out that's not for me and that's fine um outside of that the people that stick around i think they're gonna stick around that's what i think what do you guys think tips um for the most part i would agree there's actually a really interesting article written by a camera about his name it might have been jason or john or something from ign remember when we met him at the event that guy from ign yeah he said next to us right yeah he said next to us he did that he did that uh some library with us he said he wrote a really really interesting article from the perspective of somebody that was very much you know in the thought of oh yeah people want classic wow for nostalgia and that's kind of where he came from and after he came to this media summit and experienced vanilla he kind of had like a whole revelation and he kind of saw the light i it's so funny i haven't read the article but sitting next to him and talking to him throughout that event he was like he we were in the dungeon he was like oh this is so good like i i didn't know this game was so good i forgot this is so good oh hey i think a lot of people are gonna feel that way exactly the same reaction a lot of people are gonna see the light like uh so many people man like it's it's one thing to argue about it oh 15 year old game but when you're playing it when you're in there when you're having fun like how much fun we had dude the entire auditorium at the media event yeah everyone was just like laughing and raging and yelling and it was just like it was fun dude you know what it felt like it felt like whenever like you're back in middle school and it's like y'all go to your friend's house for like Friday night or whatever and it's like people really let's go like land party it felt like a land party it was very very funny yeah the funniest thing and this is totally off topic uh so chinglish and tally and a couple of uh lost you lost you stayed safe last year for a second can you hear me hello yeah chinglish and tally were sitting across from us uh their computers were facing us so if we if we peered over our monitors we could see their eyes and uh they were doing a dungeon they were doing razor fend something and they pulled too much and they were going to wipe and i heard chinglish she's like you you was playing a priest she's like oh hey boys click the light well i dropped a light well and it was so light well they're like such a mean yeah it was so bad i just was like cracking up when i heard that across the room i was sitting i was sitting across from chinglish and i swear like he kept like looking up over and like just making like snide comments at me i i felt like i was like tim the tool man and it was an episode of home improvement i was talking to wilson and he's just like looking it was so funny i love chinglish man it was a it was a good time it was a really really good time that's a lot of fun but um but yeah it's just cool though i kind of get to go in there and test everything and like i've said this before i played like you know we played vanilla wow in 2017 right we played on a private server you know before the classic announcement came out that's that's what we were doing that's what i was doing that's what i was streaming and i i very very very strongly feel this way i had more fun playing vanilla wow in 2017 than i had playing it in 2004 2005 2006 and it's because i'm older i'm able to understand the game better i have more time to invest into it i i'm a better gamer now like in some ways in other ways i'm not i'm not the good thing is the good thing is as a ret paladin my my reaction times don't need to be that fast so that's a good thing but uh but yeah like it's it's just one of those things where you forget how good the game was i started playing back then it's like i was gonna play for like a month i wasn't even planning on hitting max level i gave my character a stupid mustache and i was like okay whatever this will be funny and then next thing you know here i am so yeah like it's it's gonna be an incredible experience man there's some things that we're being nitpicky about there's some things that that we're not happy about exactly and we're trying to figure out more about we're trying to learn more about talking about layering and some of the other stuff but i uh i'm really really really excited for where where this is gonna take us man it's it's so unbelievably fun and there's so many people who haven't gotten experience it there's people who haven't experienced it in years and uh just getting a chance to go back and just get back into azeroth as it was pre-cataclysm it's gonna be really really nice i think yeah yeah one last thing for those of you that didn't catch it i didn't interview with john height and um omar gonzalez john heights the executive producer of world of warcraft omar gonzalez obviously senior software engineer at blizzard working on classic wow at the very very end of the interview i asked a question about tbc and wrath of the lich king and the response that i got i honestly thought it was going to be a throwaway question i thought they were just going to be like oh we're not thinking about that right now and you know our eyes are on classic uh the response that i got was literally sure yeah why not why not why not and i was just like blowed away dude i was blown away so i think what they're looking for from us as a community all of us here you know the people that aren't watching right now yeah they want they want to see the community come as one united voice and ask for tbc and wrath but um well here here's the thing it's like they're and this is just how business works they're going to want you to ask uh and give feedback with your wallet so that's that's probably how they're going to look at it right like they're going to see it as like look if people are playing wow classic if it's financially like feasible for them then yeah they're pretty much it's very very likely that they're going to be doing like a burning crusade and wrath so yeah yeah definitely the biggest surprise of the night for me i did not expect them to say they were up for it i i actually uh maybe to say it it was a little bit surprising but i'm i'm really i wouldn't have been surprised at all to to hear like because i mean their business and you know they know that if classic does really well i think it would only make sense to go into burning crusade so uh it's it's good to hear that's for sure um let's see uh oh guys uh i i'm trying to look around my uh i think i actually i think they were dirty uh so i wish i could show it real quick uh i might have to go check the laundry but um can would you would you mind uh while i go afk just real quick uh i'm gonna do another another question um oh this is a good one okay do you think that we'll see the ability to bring 40 people into all instances we did in 1.0 or 1.1 on classic launch that could very well make for a very quick first week rag kill possible there's a lot more tech too so uh because it's based off of 1.12 it's going to have like the 1.12 uh dungeon caps the essence caps yeah um this is sorry in addition to that i think we'll see 10 man uh upper black rux plier on lower black rux plier as opposed to 15 man you know whatever there was it was like 10 man stratum and stuff that's going to be five man um i think it'll be all that's going to be it's 1.12 state mm-hmm uh this is from dynamic electivire how our add-ons going to work uh i i'm on the impression that it's going to be based off of 735 so the the api for the game is going to be 735 the last patch of legion because that's what they were taken as the base game and they're stripping it down into vanilla so actually be updated it's no longer 735 it's it's bfa it is bfa client okay so so it's 8.2 okay oh no oh wait wait wait so does that also mean that there's no 32 bit client that's what that would mean i'm actually surprised by that so if if they're going with a bfa client that means there's no 32 bit client uh i thought that there would probably be a 32 bit client as well um okay i thought that yeah i i thought they were going 735 for that reason specifically but yeah um no windows xp support here we go it's over game over um did you guys get a chance at dual what's that i didn't mean there i was just asking if you guys had a chance like dual or test any of the spell matching stuff out oh yeah s1 if you've got a go uh i i can yeah if you want to do some q nice stuff i'll be right back real quick yeah yeah yeah so actually s1 and i tested a couple things in duels we didn't have like serious duels because i still have ptsd from the demo uh but uh i was like hey s1 go easy on me and test some stuff so we tested uh crit reactive prox and those were not working right so uh that's like a powey thing you wanted to test i also tested my my my quiver wand thing and you know much to my dismay it it this works on private servers i mentioned this a little while ago but uh quivers are not scaling with wand attack speed so i i i'm going to be totally honest i thought they would like i thought they would because your wand is a ranged weapon it's in your ranged weapon slot um i actually thought it would work and they don't i i'm actually surprised i thought it was going to be like a weird interesting meamy quirk of of vanilla wow and uh it didn't work but uh tips did you did you get to duel at all um i did duel i actually uh i i killed s fan a couple of times oh we had we had the goba sirena that's right that's right claiming the territory um no there was spell batching there was like i intimidating shouted somebody who uh who frost or not uh frost know what i mean i think maybe it was as fan that hodged me as i intimidating shouted him i just remembered something happened i was like oh there it is um but yeah there was it was working out the one thing that i noticed um there was a little bit of a wider window gap when when it happened so like a spell batching works is you cast a spell somebody else cast a spell within like a 0.2 second window or something like that and both the spells are registered as being cast at the same time yeah it feels like that window 0.2 seconds whatever it feels like it's a little bit bigger on classic wow than it is on you know nascor private servers i couldn't be wrong could have just been like you know one of those things in the moment it felt like it was a little bit longer but but who knows yeah so that's not something i tested so i i'll just have to take your word on it i i didn't personally experience that um duels i'll tell you it and i'm we're not going to talk dates or anything tips out it's going to do a duel tournament on the on the beta s1's going to do a duel tournament and i will be doing a duel tournament and probably at the end we'll likely do a classic as dual tournament there's going to be a lot of dueling on the beta so that's something for yeah big scheduled events hype um it's going to be a lot of fun those were huge on the demo uh you know both tips and i had really big duel tournaments and s1 i think is going to have the first one going into the beta it's going to be a lot of fun it's going to be a lot of fun so i hope i hope that early on my concern of the duel tournaments on the beta is that we don't have enough people in the beta to fill the bracket so i i hope that uh they open up the beta relatively soon to more people and get more people in so we can have them fight each other for our entertainment exactly yeah it's it's going to be it's going to be a lot of fun uh you know what else is going to be a lot of fun and i wore this on stream the other day that's why it was in the laundry and it's wet actually i'm wearing a i'm wearing a wet t-shirt so yeah here you go i know you guys have been waiting for this forever so yes wet t-shirt has been here it is i know yeah it was not in laundry yet but guys uh classic cash shirts are here look at this boom this is the uh the classic cash shirt uh you can get this this is going to be something that people have been asking for for a long time and uh i have been lazy about it and not been doing merch for classic ass but we're finally doing it so so uh there's there's white there's black there's gray there's red and there's blue so you got all your colors you got your neutrals uh yeah so the i'll post the link in the chat right now uh it's it's actually through stream labs so can we can we buy your used shirts like if you break them in a little bit my i if you want i can order the shirts first and then it's it's a very simple fee yeah it's only an extra 300 dollars yeah it's only a six extra 300 dollars uh for sure it's yeah uh that i wear i will actually sweat in them and uh yeah i won't watch them before i send them to you so i think that would be really really valuable and a good idea yeah so yeah i know those are uh yeah i post that link in chat right now uh what we should do is we should probably post that link on on our bios down below uh on our channels and we'll get that situated so we're this here's what happened i i set up the shirts and i wanted to order some for myself quality control their their bella canvas shirts so their nice quality uh make sure they were good and then announce them but technically that that that has been like secretly up there for like two or three weeks now um but yeah so there's that people want classic ass shirts that's going to be there um do you guys have anything else for today there was one question and it sort of been like in the back of my brain um and i'm sure we'll all feel differently on this i don't know the chat might feel different we'll just have to see so someone said do you really think that they are going to follow through and get rid of layering by phase through because that's what to us that's what they heart committed to they said in multiple times by phase two layering will be gone i think they would have to right yeah like just wouldn't work with world bosses during my stream i had people saying like do you really believe them do you really think we're gonna hold true to that and i i think they have to i think they have to just because of the content of phase two the world bosses um also that's the world pvp phase imagine trying to grind on or pvp phase two and there's layering oh dude that would be terrible so i think they have to get rid of it but also just to give the classic classic dev team credit like i i feel like they've earned i feel like they've earned a little bit of respect like i in general they've made pretty good decisions over the last year i think yeah i think they've done a good job and they've been they've been really good about interfacing with the community and listening to community back that's that's probably been the most impressive part of this whole thing so i don't think they would think they would do yeah exactly things that we thought were impossible so that's exactly like a year ago the conversations we were having were please l of foreign achievements don't make it to classic right come a long way since then and i do want to give one specific example credit to stay safe for suggesting this this is how open to feedback and advice they were um towards the end of the night after the event wrapped up there was something like there's like a little mixer like a little dinner post event dinner and it was me s van stay safe and quissy and ian josecos does and omar gonzalez rolled by and they sat down with us for a couple of hours and we're just chatting and we were talking about the layering mechanism and um you know we were talking about it and you know we were kind of lukewarm to it we didn't really understand how it works 100% and stay safe just goes hey so um would it be possible to have it so you know when you're on a layer you're given some kind of priority to be on your guildmates layer like there's some internal guildmate layering priority system and ian just turns to omar and he's like yeah i think we could do that right omar we can do that and she's like boom you know like that's the level of you know their willingness to work with the community and and take advice and feedback and um when it comes to specifically to the to the layering thing and ending in phase in phase two or whatever ian josecos does himself okay actually you know let me let me reenact exactly what he said hold on hold on hold on hold on what's up frick hold on one second i gotta fix something everyone hold on no show the yeah um yeah i'm still alive give me a second they can hear us right now you know what i so i need to i'll do it later uh you know what it is is i i'm gonna log out i'm gonna do that give me a second guys sorry so here's what's happening i just muted my desktop audio so you can't hear them uh so here's yeah we're leveling dude we're leveling up here's here's what happened uh that is the sound for buying t-shirts and that's why that's going off uh but i don't have my console open to where it's muted right now uh and i thought it was gonna auto mute so that's why that's happening um so yeah let me try and fix that real quick uh just give me one second they can't hear you guys but they can hear me yeah uh so yeah um yeah okay good uh log in give me one second guys i'm sorry about that that's pretty funny uh classic cast podcast yeah okay scuffed yeah a little bit it'll be fine uh widgets alert box it's okay guys we're gonna level plenty tomorrow you're gonna get used to hearing that noise it'll be fine sweet okay saved you guys ready ready ready okay sorry continue so uh would you like to continue to re-enact no i i don't nice stories stories but what he said was basically he was like you know you know we understand that the community is concerned with uh layering and the potential for having multiple gazax in phase two we're gonna heart commit that there will not be multiple gazax in phase two there will not be uh layering in phase two we're heart committed to that we hear you and blah blah you know he did his whole thing and he didn't say that being said so that means it's it's working okay they're not they're not doing layering in phase two he like straight up went out of his way to like to say we are hard committing not doing layering in phase two period dude so one thing that also came up when we were talking to them and and you know we've talked about like right click reporting and all this stuff like one thing that i've been pretty like i i i do not like this is the chat like the chat systems in retail while they're in classic right now so in the demo if you were typing if you type like more than three sentences it mutes you and it's just it kills chat interaction it's so bad it's so incredibly bad and i brought this up to ian and yeah yeah it kills it so what happens is uh in one of your playing games one of for anybody who grew up like in like around our age playing games you're used to run around to your thing type one sentence go back type one sentence go back type one sentence go back because back then not everybody was always on voice chat and stuff uh the problem is this is like instilled in a lot of people just like machine gun typing and if you machine gun type in retail while right now is it mutes you in trade chat and that kills that kills the the conversation and stuff that's going on in trade chat world chat there are global chat channels that you can join uh but it but this would like it would hamper that like pretty bad and that's really really annoying uh and and we brought that up to ian has a costus too and uh he seemed he didn't commit to anything but he uh he he seemed to respond positively to to the feedback about that whenever whenever i was talking about how bad i i think my exact words were like it's absolutely aids please fix this so yeah i i really hope that you fix it yeah dude ian's ian's a troll by the way dude he was talking about possibly putting in kathun pre-nerf for the first week of phase five was to troll yeah who knows who knows yeah like there like there's actually do it yeah exactly everything he's a vanilla gamer like there's something like let's be honest anybody who played vanilla wow at that level there's something wrong with them like i can tell you firsthand so yeah uh yeah we asked about like you know will you be able to drop infernals and gold shire and is that going to be banable and he's like no do it absolutely and the term they used was they wanted to keep it as wild west as possible i think that's the omar describes yes they also okayed cross-faction collusion so mafias are a go they there is there is a difference yeah why not well the thing is they said is like there is a point in which there is a point in which like it goes from playing the game let the kids play to griefing but it's i mean it's just generally speaking it's very let the kids play so so yeah true yeah it's going to be a lot of fun it's going to be a lot of fun it's fine it was uh yeah anyway uh yeah so uh yeah is there anything else cram if you get in the beta tomorrow what's the game plan man uh for me i have i have so many things i want to test i wanted to test my like one through 10 leveling speed i just want to i just want to play with my friends i just want to play with you guys dude that's it i i don't have any i don't have any other plans except for just like vaging out for like a 24-hour period playing until i can't play anymore nothing else after that just test things play for 24 hours until i'm good and sweating so when you so you play an undead rogue and i play a no so when you say play with your friends you know that means us meeting on the road in ashenvale and uh we'll see we'll see what's up dude and the wild west it'll be good it'll be good it'll be good oh when do kids go oh go ahead go ahead cram no i was just i promise i won't cannibalize you okay okay people are saying uh people are asking like how do we know when we have a key year i actually i don't know i wonder the impression that it's going to be like bfa beta and bfa alpha was where it just kind of showed up in your account list on the battle net launcher you have battle net launcher and then you go play and then above that there's a little drop-down menu and then at some point today i'm assuming it's going to go up and it's going to be ready for download and you're ready to go tomorrow um that's what i'm assuming i i would hope that they put the download up tonight instead of tomorrow but uh yeah i'm conspamming at the whole time right yeah it's like why you're on like if you guys see my face light up blue every couple of minutes it's because i keep spamming like shutting it down and checking it was waiting do i get it no just because nely's been spamming this the entire time uh i'm not sure man i don't know that anyone knows like i think probably we're gonna have to have some that are real five heads real big brains get into the beta and start picking that apart but i i'm the wrong person to ask i'm not sure what do you guys know about api uh just that that basically they're they're going off the retail client i guess i thought it was seven three five but they're going off the retail line yeah yeah you need those data miners and those add-on developers that's not that's not our expertise yeah we're all really stupid yeah yeah i mean i play red paladin so i mean like obviously it's on the front of me no and i've seen a few people asking me where do you get a make azeroth great again hat that's on my website that's shop.sfan.tv a few people have been asking about make azeroth great again hats uh but guys uh anyway i think this has been a an exciting day i'm very very excited for the beta i think we all are tomorrow's going to be a big day we'll all be streaming it's going to be a great time uh i we know for sure that uh like because we went to the event we know that that that myself stay safe and tips are going to be in the beta we don't know about crom yet hopefully crom gets in the beta soon so yeah yeah yeah yeah crom bless crom bless please great guys streamer yeah make sure to drop a follow for crom he's in the chat make sure to follow tips make sure to follow esfan and stay safe as well if you like it yeah definitely stay safe yeah yeah so um so yeah i know uh please yeah go ahead and follow check out youtube we have exclusive content never before seen classic wild beta footage on our youtube channels right now so you should check that out i'm going to continue to stream we're going to watch some of that stuff on uh on my stream we'll talk about some stuff and we'll keep going tonight uh but other than that guys thank you so much for joining us very exciting time it's going to be very good so thank you guys so much yeah crom for sure for sure so everyone thanks for watching it's been a good day it's been a good day and the days are going to get better every day from august 27 we did it we did it we did it thank you guys so much uh we'll see you guys later