 Hello everyone, welcome to Mind Pump. Are you looking for the perfect workout that you're absolutely gonna love? Well, you may be looking for love in all the wrong places. Also, later in the episode, Adam teaches you how to get the job of your dreams. That's exactly what I would do. Okay, I wanna work for him or I wanna work for her, I wanna work for that company. Okay, what skills would that job probably need to entail? Okay, let me learn everything I can about it and find a way that I can support them on my own time, not asking anything in return, just to prove that I'm of value. In the second half of this episode, we answer four questions from our Mind Pump media Instagram account. Questions like, does Turkesterone really work? Well, we reveal the truth. Also, how can I build mental fortitude by training hard but not overtraining in the process? Finally, don't forget we have another channel that's called Mind Pump Clips where we feature short clips from this show that you can share with your friends and family. All right, enjoy the show. Stop trying to find workouts that you love. Instead, try to figure out how to love workouts. Oh, I like that. Yeah, so this, someone's like, what's the difference? There's a big difference. One of them is trying, always trying new and different workouts, falling in love with the initial excitement of a new workout. Do you see this often with like group class type workouts? Like, oh, I'm gonna try that new urban hip hop class or I'm gonna try that new cowboy, whatever workout class. You know, it's you who says that. I caught myself saying that the other day. I'm like, where did I fucking get that? It's not even real. Urban cowboy hip hop class? Is that it? Is that it? Because I was referencing. I guarantee you this. I was referencing Beachbody. I think it was in an interview. Someone was interviewing me and I was referencing a Beachbody. And I'm like, you know, like urban hip hop cowboy. Is that really a program? I guarantee it exists. I guarantee. But you know what it is? It's like, this is what the, this is what the fitness industry feeds into this, right? They come out with new, exciting stuff all the time. The newest way to work out. The newest exciting thing. And what happens, a person goes into it and at first it's fun and it's exciting and they do it and they're hyped and they're motivated but then they fall off because that initial excitement starts to wear off. So I blame us for this. I blame us for this. Oh, we feed into it. Yeah, I really do. Not us personally. Yeah. Not anymore, right? But I mean, I was guilty of this. My first introduction to personal training and programming was not like very science-based. It wasn't like- It was razzle dazzle. It was. It was what can I teach a client so that when they come there, they go like, whoa, I've never seen this or I don't know how to do this or that when I sat down and wrote programs early on and I still think this is, I think this is very prevalent in the space. I see it all the time. And I mean, even from like smart guys, I mean, one of our friends, I remember that is really smart, dude. I remember when he first referenced programs is like ice cream flavors, you know? All the programs are always saying they're just like ice cream flavors, whatever people like. I'm like, huh? I'm like, really? Like you really believe that? Like, I mean, I thought that too when I was 22. And so I think that the space perpetuates it because you have people that are gravitating and they're like, oh, I want to have fun or I want something different. And then you have trainers saying like, oh, this is how you should work out. And so it's like this vicious cycle. Yeah, it's all this experience-based emphasis. So it's like you want to entertain and you want to get people in the door and like always have something new and have them leave with this like buzz of like, oh, wow, I've never done anything like that before. Right. There's two issues with that. One is that either new coaches, new trainers or just the fitness industry at large treats exercises as like, well, it's a squat. You've already done a squat, you know what a squat is. Let's find something new. As if there's no more value in practicing and performing squats. We've tried the true. Right, for years and years and years. And I remember when I figured that out, I did what you did like most trainers in the beginning. It was the show. It was razzle dazzle. What can I combine? What two exercises can I put together? What weird way can I make this exercise different? Eventually you run out of tricks and combinations and people fall off. And then I went with the tried and true basics and consistency. And it's funny because as quote unquote boring as the workouts may look on paper, my clients became far more consistent and the results became better. Here's the second part. People don't realize that you have that what you're developing with workouts, if you want to do this forever, if you want to really, if you want to get in shape and get out of shape then stop listening. But if you want to get in shape and stay in shape, this is a relationship. It's one that evolves over time. It's not different than finding the right partner. You fall in love, head over heels. Two years later, that's feeling of, oh my God, I can't sleep. I love this person so much. I'm so infatuated. He starts to go away. Well, now you gotta work on the relationship part because otherwise you'll be jumping from one person to the other and not figure out why you can't have this long-term relationship. The key to developing a long-term relationship with exercise is yes, you appreciate the excitement of doing a new something different and novel but really it's appreciating the value of the workout itself and that's a different mindset. So rather than trying to find the workout that always elits it's that excitement in you which means you're gonna inevitably go on and off, find a way to love the process itself. That's what develops that long-term relationship. Yeah, dig into the details of some of these lifts. I mean that seem like they're always repeating in your workouts and it's always something that you're constantly working on but it allows you to get better, more proficient. It allows you to develop that skill required to really start to move yourself even further forward versus always throwing you some kind of new stimulus that distracts you from going forward. Do you think there's more there? Like there's a psychological phenomenon that's happening. Like it's subconsciously these people are drawn to the novelty and they don't even realize it and so therefore they wanna do that and then the trainer is just reinforcing that because that's what the client wants. And I think that's part of the problem. This negative feedback loop. Yeah, because obviously it's not strange that we all came to the same conclusion as early trainers that, oh, this works. Like give the client something random. Well, define works because what we thought work. Works is keeping them as a client or bringing them in. Like a short period. Right, for a short period of time. But I mean I guess if you take a client and you do these kind of crappy novel type of workouts where it's, you know, you're throwing something at them every different, a different every day. But you teach and preach consistency and you help them nutritionally. This does work for a while. That's the part that I think is challenging. I mean, it wasn't like I was an unsuccessful trainer for my first 10 years. But what's crazy, I don't know how much we've talked about this on the show. But this is actually what, Mind Pump would have never happened had I not been in a place in my career where this was really coming full circle for me when I was really starting to understand the value of order, the order of operation when it comes to exercise and program design and you set me MAPS and Ebola. It wasn't that long, it wasn't long before that that that had really just, I mean I had already trained for damn near eight, nine years plus of kind of the same way and the kind of boring programming, for lack of a better word, that I was starting to create that I was starting to notice these bigger gains and like you said, consistency from the clients is like, oh my God, I've really simplified how I'm writing these programs and it's really what's working. And that was when you sent over MAPS and Ebola and it was like, and had that not happened literally like the timing, I would have probably never said, dude, we got to talk, let's meet because that literally had just kind of dawned on me. It wasn't that long before that and so it was fresh in my mind, like this is the, and I remember being a little bit frustrated with the space because I felt like nobody was communicating that. And that was why I was like, I had to pick the phone up, I gotta call you because it's taken me eight or almost 10 years at that time to figure this out and I hadn't been in the space, I hadn't been marketed, I hadn't been told, I hadn't seen this and so that was what made me pay the phone. Yeah, it's interesting thinking about that. I remember as CrossFit emerged and I actually was like in that head space of like always trying to find the latest kind of a trend out there, like some kind of a workout method that I could include to kind of spice up the workouts and keep my clients engaged and entertained and all that. And I was like, oh wow, CrossFit, they're just throwing the kitchen sink at everybody. And I was like, I might wanna try this and so I was trying it and I'm like, wow, this is just way too much and kind of overboard. And then that sort of changed my mindset and I started going in opposite direction in terms of like, let's bring it back down to like what really I need them to focus on and like move forward, get strong and like get rid of like the balance on one leg stuff from NASM and like there was just so many different distractions that I was like bringing in and then just started to kind of filter all that out and then started to have way better success with my clients. And look, your best clues as to what works forever in terms of exercise relationship, okay? Not just the workouts himself, but like the kind of relationship with exercise that allows you to stick with it forever. The best clues come from people who've been doing it for 10 plus years, right? People who've been doing consistently for a long time. And if you look at their workouts, they don't look that different most of the time. Now they'll modify the intensity and they'll change things depending on if they're injured or they don't feel good or they're tired, but they have kind of this basic tried and true kind of model. Now there are those people who do change things up relatively, I'm gonna explain that here in a second, relatively often who also have a lifelong relationship with exercise, but there's a difference. These people pick something up new and then spend a long time becoming masters at it, right? So this is the bodybuilder who's like, wow, kettlebells are interesting. And then they spend three, four years mastering kettlebells and then they do weightlifting. And they go, whoa, this is interesting. And then they spend three, four years mastering weightlifting. I'm not talking about those people. What I'm talking about is the person and people. This is a lot of people when they'll do this new, exciting thing. And then the excitement wears off after, I don't know, three months, six months. And they try to find the new, the next new and exciting thing. The fitness industry is literally you could define it with one word, fad, fad. Everything in the fitness industry. So many of them. Workout fads, exercise equipment fads, supplement fads, diet fads, it's literally fads. And if you stay in the space long enough, you actually see these fads disappear and then cycle back and then they disappear and they cycle back. I remember when I first started in the space seeing these like 10s units, which by the way have existed for a long time since the 60s, right? These are the pads you put on muscles, sends an electric current, makes the muscle flex. So they've been around for a long, decades and decades. And I remember seeing them on TV in the 90s. Put this on your abs, see that work. It's like doing a thousand pushups. He's got it hooked up to his stomach. And then people bought it and then it went out of favor. And then it came back again and it went out of favor. And every time it comes back, it's a little different. Now there's one that looks like a butterfly you put on your butt, lifts your butt type of deal. So it's like a whole suit for him. Yeah, you see different iterations of low carb, different iterations of low fat. Oh yeah, I mean, Atkins was what? Atkins was in the like the 80s, right? That was in the 90s. And that wasn't even the first time we'd had talked about a low carbohydrate diet. So it's all about fads. And what they do is they capture people when people are in that vulnerable space of feeling shitty about themselves. And now I'm motivated by this shitty feeling, which is a short-term motivator. It's not a long-term motivator, it's short-term, but it's powerful. If you're a marketer, I'm gonna tell you something right now, here's a little secret for those of you that wanna make money at the expense of people's health, if that's you, I hope you're not listening, but if you are, here's an easy way to make money. Find a way to tap into, this is what the fitness industry does, tap into when people feel shitty about themselves that period of time when they feel shitty and they feel motivated because they feel shitty. You can sell them anything. Yeah. You can sell them, if someone sits in front of me and I have no integrity and they sit in front of me and they're like, I'm so fat, nobody likes me, I hate the way I look, I'm lazy, and it's really pissing me off and I wanna do something about it. I can sell you whatever I want. Now, I know it's not gonna last, I know it's not gonna work and I have integrity, so I don't communicate that way to those people, but the fitness space and the marketers know this, and so they capitalize. So you feel shitty, you're motivated because you hate yourself, oh, here, try this new thing you never heard of or something different, or here, show up at this class, it's gonna be exciting, or this new way of working out is always different. It's interesting too, because the algorithm feeds this. Totally. Right? I remember when we first started the podcast and people thought it was a terrible idea to be mind pump, like what the fuck is mind pump, right? And everybody was like, you should do, and at that time, it was right at the height of Keto. Keto was like, you know, and like all these podcasts that were like passing us up, where you know, Keto this, Keto that. Keto kids. Right, and so, and I mean, we're seeing this right now with the Carnivore diet and liver king and stuff like that, it's like, you get these fads to your point, Sal, that happen and so many people are searching it, that these things start to rise to the top. And so everybody starts, and everybody starts jumping in. It's like, I mean, look at what's going on. And I even hate to bring his name up right now, because I probably would like the guy if I met him in person. I don't know anything about him, but it's like everybody is like every Instagram story, everything is either Andrew Tate or liver king right now. It's like, because those guys are viral and everyone's talking about it. And so, oh, I can't come up with my own original content, so I know what I'll do is I'll piggyback off of that fad. Which just pushes that even more. Yeah, which just pushes and feeds into that even more. So you just, if you're a consumer or you're somebody who's getting into this space and you're trying to learn about health and wellness, you've got to become aware of this stuff that it's a lot of it is just a fad and it's just being rebranded over and over. I'll give you some tips. I'll give you some tips right now. If this is something that you want to do and you want to be able to do forever and it not be this crazy struggle for the rest of your life, if you want to get into the space where you want to work out, where you want to be fit, not because you hate yourself, but you just actually enjoy it, here's some tips. Number one, learn to create a healthy relationship with the kind of pain that you feel when you work out. This is very important. What do I mean by that? Well, the pain you feel in your workout shouldn't be cathartic because you hate yourself. So that's a bad relationship. It also shouldn't be pain that you avoid and hate because it's scary and you don't like the way it feels. You should have a healthy relationship where the right kind of pain, the burn, the pump, the struggle is something that you start to actually enjoy. It still hurts, it's still a challenge. Like I work out, it still challenges me, but I have now developed a relationship with it where I actually enjoy this kind of healthy relationship. So that's one. Here's the other one. Develop a relationship with discipline and consistency around exercise where you value just the discipline of it. Where you wake up and you go, I don't feel like working out, but I value the discipline that I have to go more than I hate the fact that I kind of don't feel like working out. When that happens, you just don't miss workouts that often. That's another one. And here's the last one I'm gonna say. Develop a relationship with exercise where when you do it, you truly feel like you're taking care of yourself. Like this is, oh man, I'm doing this for me and it's making me, it really helps me be a better person. So it's like this pro self growth relationship. If you can develop those three things, they take time, by the way, I'm making this sound simple. Like, oh, just do this, this, this. Takes a little time. But if you can focus on those through your fitness journey and as you develop them, this becomes something that like I'm, there's no doubt in my mind that I'm always gonna have some type of a fitness consistency for the rest of my life because I've developed those relationships. And yes, it may change depending on the context of my life and the circumstances, but I've developed that relationship. It takes time. But if you do those things, then you're on your road to long-term things. Actually, then you can avoid the fitness snow jobs. What? You guys never watch Elvis? What? Okay, so they- Doug gets it, obviously. What does he do? So this is like the whole like showman, entertainer, carnival act thing. He talks all about like how to sort of manipulate the audience. And it's a lot of like how the snake oil travelers used to come through town and then they'd razzle, dazzle everybody and kind of like hit them on their pain points. And it was all like this massive hustle and they call it snow jobs. And so like whatever your thing is that gets people to get riled up and get their emotions really high, then they manipulate them from there. It's called a snow job. Why is it a snow job? I have no idea. Because you bury them. Like a blizzard, you know, you can't see the truth, maybe. Oh, yeah. So it's actually a word. It's called a snow job. Deception or concealment of one's real motive in an attempt to flatter or persuade. Look at you, Justin. Boom. Dropping bombs today. So you mean to tell me, I was being all sexual. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I actually did, I actually did think it was something. You guys know what a snow job is? I was like, well, that turned real quick. I guess I wrote this direction. All them snowmen. Actually, no, I didn't know, I thought it was and I looked over at Doug. Doug normally puckers up when somebody does something like that. He'd put her up like that. Doug's like, yes, it's a snow job. Welcome back. Here's the giveaway for today's episode, Maps Anabolic. Here's how you win. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel. Do those things. If we like your comment, we'll notify you in the comment section. That's the only way you'll get notified by the official Mind Pump people in the comment section that you won free access to Maps Anabolic. Everybody else, check this out. We got a sale going on right now. Maps Symmetry, 50% off. Maps Strong, 50% off. If you wanna take advantage of this sale that will be ending soon, click on the link at the top of the description below to get started. All right, here comes the show. So you're saying that butter and coffee and blue blockers are not the answer? Jesus Christ. Woo! Wow. You know, that was a bit of a shame. Speaking to him. Talk about somebody who captured lightning in a bottle, right? He just jumped on this and really capitalized on this weird... You know what I really... That was super obvious to me was when we were hanging out with Paul Cech years ago and he was telling us about how long he had been doing butter and his coffee. Because I really thought... Didn't he say yak butter? They were used yak butter and coffee. Who was it that did it? Like, monks, Tibetan monks? Maybe. It's like a whole... I didn't realize it was that old. I thought it was like, again, new science. Even I get fooled, right? Been in the space forever and if there's something new that maybe I hadn't seen before, I assume that it was like, oh, this is new cutting-edge stuff. I don't know this guy personally but Dave Asprey's interesting to me. He lost me, by the way, completely when he did his little butthole-sunning Instagram. Oh, was he the one that started that? He didn't start it, but he definitely jumped on the band. Wagon and showed a picture of himself, you know, spreading his butt cheeks to the sun. I feel like, okay, so I think that's like the... What's that? Not Reddit, but the other thread that's kind of crazy? Oh. 4chan. 4chan. Yeah, I feel like... They made that up? Yes. Yeah, when I see stuff now, I'm like... I'm super like... Ooh. There was probably some scientific article some of you wrote just to get people to do the thing. I'm so like cautious now. Like, dude, I'm like, you know what? This is some 4chan shit that somebody freaking started and it's like a massive troll of the fitness thing. It feels like it, right? Can somebody give Dave Asprey a pair of Felix Greys, please? He's always wearing orange. Why? He was just the dorkiest looking version, right? I have a theory of why. First off, if you could wear blue blockers that aren't orange, that are just as effective. That are as just or more effective. Why wouldn't you? Here's why. Because then you're not telling everybody to wear blue blocker. That's why it annoys me. It annoys me because, okay, I understand, of course, we were partnered, we were investors in a company like Felix Greys, so we see the value of it. Because what I recognize is the behaviors of people with technology. So I absolutely think something like that is. But I'll tell you what, even knowing that, what has kept me away for so long is how dorky you have to look and how much it changes everything that you're looking at. So I'm like, I don't wanna wear these orange glasses that say, look at me. You know what? So I have some theories around that. So I get the value when those were the first things available, the first types of blue blockers that were effective and available. Which by the way, okay, remember when we were kids? Like the commercials, the infomercials? They were literally called, what do they call blue blockers? That was the brand name. I remember that. And it showed a truck driver driving. You guys had night? Yeah, so we didn't drive off the road. Get two pairs for $29.99 in the morning. Yeah, two pairs. So I have a theory around that, right? So I get it when those were the first available ones, you put them on at night and the value of blocking blue light to help you sleep, especially if you're on electronics, outweighed this potential risk right here. So the way we perceive the world is very important, including the colors, the smells, facial expressions, all that stuff. And I learned this firsthand when I had my first pair of blue blocker glasses before we worked with Felix Gray, I bought the orange ones and I put them on at night and I decided it was like nine o'clock at nine. I'm like, you know, I'm a little hungry. I'm gonna go to bed at 11. So let me eat some food. And I'm looking at my food through these orange glasses and the experience was totally different. Because the visual experience- The associations, like the matrix. Well, the visual experience is also a part of how you perceive your experience with food, right? This is why food manufacturers know this. How ultra-processed foods, like the color, the vibrance. Yeah, you see when they change the color of certain food products, how badly it doesn't matter. We know that about the- Yeah, like black ketchup. Black ketchup and the clear Pepsi. Yeah, some of those things you're just disgusting. It reminds you of it being rotten or putrid. Exactly. So I was eating and I'm like, this doesn't feel the same. And I'm like, I wonder if there are potential negatives to wearing something that changes the color of everything around me for long periods of time, like Dave Asprey, who every interview I ever see is wearing them. I wonder if that's gonna, that'll change how the brain reads your environment. It has to. Okay, so I don't buy that he's always wearing them. You think he's just when the cameras are on? 100%, I think that. Yeah, you're probably right. I totally think that. And for part of the reason you're saying right now, like you can't tell me that he hasn't figured that piece. He wears them more than any of us wear. And when the first time you put that together, you're like, oh, shit, this ruins my dinner. So I guarantee he takes them off like that. It is all for the show, dude. Okay, this is the last thing I'll say because I don't want to keep hammering on the guy. Yeah, isn't he interviewing you soon? Isn't he interviewing you soon? I don't know. Hey, look, interesting guy, interesting guy, but hopefully happens before the air of this one. I just saw him do an interview where he goes, my biological age is 38, but my chronological age is 50. Have you heard people say that? Well, he's gonna be in the biohacking space. For sure, he's gonna be the asshole who dies at like 62 for natural causes. No, don't say that, I hope not. I mean, I'm not wishing that, but I mean, it's that guy, the guy who makes a claim like that, he says he's gonna live like 150 or some shit, right? Yeah, he says that. You know why you can make that claim? Because until you die, you can capitalize on it. Then when you die, nobody cares. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You get rich all the way to 62. How do you contest that? I'm really 23, dude, I'm gonna see that. What is it? So biological age, I guess it can look at your telomeres and your mitochondria and guess your biological age. That's, I understand the science behind it, but I don't. They did that for Katrina. Katrina was really, she was like, they do it with women, like with their eggs, their hormone. They check all that stuff. It's more than just your telomeres. It's like, there's a whole bunch of stuff that they test to get that. I don't know exactly what it is, but I remember when she found that out. Well, sometimes I feel like my emotional age is like 15, you know what I mean? Yeah. Dude, all of those jokes are still appropriate for me. Yeah, for some reason. Super juvenile. I know, it's hilarious. I told you guys, my kids both have dark sets of humor and my daughter, though, is revealing to be the worst. That's awesome. I know. This has to be, okay, so this, you aren't that, you're the furthest. Well, actually Doug. Whatever guy dates are gonna be lucky. I would love that. You and Doug have to, I mean, this has gotta be an interesting time for you guys because you guys are, your kids are like, they're turning into like little adults now. So that to me, there's obviously, I don't want to be there fast. I'm enjoying the young age right now, but there's a part of me that it'll be really, I think about it sometimes when he's sitting next to me or when I'm like, God, one day, you and I are gonna have like an intelligent, deep conversation, like that's a crazy thought when they're that little. That's not the thing that's hard. The thing that's hard, cause that's fun. What's hard is this, wow, one day, you're just not gonna want to handle me at all and you're gonna think I'm a dork. No matter what, you're gonna be the coolest fucker in the world. You could be Adam Schaefer and your son at one point is gonna be like, oh, God, dad, can you like turn the music down? Can you like not drop me off so close to the school or whatever. So you guys just reminded me, I had this conversation with Everett last night and I told you, like, he's starting to get really philosophical and we'll just sit there and bet he loves, like he looks forward to our conversations now, like before bed and like, I was like, did I ever tell you about this, like science fiction book that I've been, you know, working on it right over the years? And he's like, no, like tell me about it. I literally was like just going off and it was like an hour and a half later. Courtney comes in like, what are you doing? And he's like, he's telling me his story, mom, and it's like taking forever. He's like, this is the most complicated story ever, dad. He thought he was all into it. Yeah, I thought he was totally into it. He's like, I wanted to go to sleep like three minutes. Aw, that would just like rip my heart out, dude. So that you could spend like years working on it. No, he liked it, but he was like, dad, like seriously, like I gotta go to bed. Hey, he's just giving me the clip notes. Hey, at least your kid is aware enough to be polite. He's like, all right, dad. He totally, right? I did. I was like, oh man. Bro, I'll catch my kid like, I'll be telling him something and I think like he's enthralled and then they'll like check their phone and shit. Well, I'm talking like, rude little shit. Okay, fine, I'm boring you right now. Speaking of nighttime conversations, I don't know, let's have this call. This might get me in trouble, but anyway, that must be fun. This, is this a, dare I say, is this a wife thing or a female thing? There seems to be a time of day when we need, yeah, when stressful conversations have to happen and it's right before bed. Right before bed. Right before bed. Right before bed. What is that? I knew it. Why do they do that? It's like universal or something. What is that? Does that happen? Because they're brain ninjas, that's why. They know they're doing that. That's what you're, they are. They are, totally. Fucking they are, they're 100% they're brain ninjas. Every time. They know that. They know that. Oh, you wanted to sleep? Mine just did it to me like literally two days ago, dude, like we literally both had a like a stressful day, a lot of stuff going on. And I, you know, she rubbed me kind of the wrong way a little bit in the afternoon. I was kind of short, but not bad. Just a little short. And then later on the afternoon, she rubbed me kind of the wrong way a little bit. And then, you know, but what I was actually, I, okay, the man side, I was like, oh yeah, we fucking, we crushed today. Like we had a little couple of things and we actually still good. And we're over it. Yeah. I walked by her to the kitchen, squeezed her butt and kissed on her neck. You were wrong, Adam. Yeah. I was sitting there. It's like nine o'clock at night, watching the last Netflix show like that. And you know, I want to talk to you real quick. And it's like real quick. It's never real quick. You know what I'm saying? You know, when you, you get frustrated with me, you can be really disrespectful. And I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, no. Like I thought we made it through today. We did so good. You know what I'm saying? Like you really want to bring this up like right now too. And then you make it worse because you say that. Yeah. I know. We'll be like laying there. And I'm like, oh, you know what? We, you know, I think it's cool. I think we, you know, and I have a tendency to like, something happens. I'll just like, okay. Well, let's just avoid that for a second. So I get that. But we'll be sitting there and then it just comes up. You know, it's like, oh, about to turn off the TV. Time to go to sleep. Hey, so that thing that happened earlier. Oh, here we, God, how do we navigate this? Cause I want to go to sleep. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then I make it worse. But it's a thing. I think here's something outside. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes that's my move. Yeah. Shinnininininin. Interrupt with snore. There you go protect. I'm already sleeping, huh? It's, so it's a universal thing. It has to be a universal thing. I think it's cause everything's calm and quiet. And then that's when, you know, it's I guess the best time to- I think because we're physically stronger, they find ways to mentally fuck us. That's what I think. It's evolution. It is evolution. I think for sure it's- It's like a theory. You think you've got all the muscles. Okay. Cool. Watch what I fucking sleep up on that track to you from the inside. Dude, just. Let's talk about bills or something like that. Oh God. I know. I can't sleep. I love finance. I can't sleep. Anyway, Justin, I want to ask you about something I saw on your Instagram, which look like- Oh yeah. Do you see that? It look like, like if God made a burger for Justin. Right? Oh, I saw the cheat. Where were you at? So there's this new place that opened up. Oh, it's a new place. Yeah, a new place. And it's called The Hanger, I think. It's where this old, well basically there's an airport that you used to be able to fly to and then they made like a park out of it. And so they've had this building forever and they didn't build it out because of the pandemic. And then so now they just opened it up. It's like a big brewery. And we just decided to go try it and have this burger there. And I was reading the ingredients and I'm like, oh, wow, cool. Double burger. That sounds good. On cheese, on cheese. It said cheese skirt. Like a sharp cheddar skirt. It took two of your favorite words, put them together. On a burger. It's like, was this made for me? Yeah. Wait a minute. Okay, so because you have one of my favorite burger places in Santa Cruz, the place, I think it's called Burger. Burger. Yeah, Burger. I've never been there before. Oh, bomb. That's fantastic. Bomb. That's a must go. Really? Yes. So it's one of my favorite burgers. We're looking for a place to go to dinner tonight. Go to where we went with Doug. Where? Oh my God. Oh my God, that was so good. Is this Spanish? Yeah, Teleferi. Bro, you will love it. You will. Delicious, dude. And it's Spanish? Yes. We must have tried 15 plus things with Mike. I don't know if it was 15, but we ate a lot. Well, it was pretty close. We did a lot. It was quite a few different things. Really? Yeah. And everything was good. Okay, we're gonna have to have a good dinner when she listens to this episode. Yeah, you gotta take her out. Okay, so was it better than that or as good? Oh, you know, it was, so just the burger itself was I couldn't even finish it. And I'm like usually easily like just put it down. It was so rich and like it was delicious, but they went overboard with the cheese. And I'm not one for like, wow, like hold back on the cheese, right? Like I couldn't believe like other people would eat. I'm just imagining somebody who's not as much of like a crazy person like me. Makes you feel good about your addiction. Yeah, I was like, I had to. She's going down. She's going down. You're degenerates out here like me. Guys. She's like, I can't even finish this. I can't even finish it. She did feel a little bit better. That was like a bad thing for you to have in here. Just like, oh, I'm not that bad. He's in the back lot turning tricks for cheese. You got some cheddar, man. Yeah. But I saw the picture of the cheese coming off the side. Oh, it's delicious. Oh my God. I was like, just didn't have it. There's something about, and obviously I can't have dairy, but that doesn't mean I don't love it. There's something about cheese when it gets crispy because it touches the whatever they're frying it or whatever on. Yes, so it like melted on the top and then it came out to the sides and it had that crisp like outside cover to it. It was ridiculous. Speaking of cheese, pizza last, we haven't done this in a long time. We ordered pizza last night. What do you do when that happens? Well, it's kind of embarrassing to say, but I get pizza with no cheese. You get bread? You get sauce bread? I get, yeah, with other stuff. So like, sausage, pepperoni, salami. So is it the cheese that fucks you up more or is it actually the bread that fucks you up more? Oh, dairy. Dairy's instant. Oh, interesting. So you can handle gluten as an opposite. Gluten, I can handle, like if I go gluten two, three days in a row, then I start to not feel really good. And even after the first time made, I'll get a little bloated, right? But if I go cheese or milk or like ice cream, I can have like this much cheese. So I can have a little bit of cheese, but if I go, like if I eat pizza with cheese on it, it would be 30 minutes later, not good. And then it'd be bad the rest of the night. So, but anyway, we ordered pizza. Bread. And no, this, I ordered bread with sauce. Now here's what's annoying. I don't know if you guys have done this. Door dash usually gets things right, but they get it wrong enough times to where I want to strangle people. Enough times. It should never happen, but enough time to get wrong. They bring the pizzas. We just ordered it, everybody's hungry. It's a little late, we had a long day, and we never have pizza, so it's a big deal. Kids are excited. My pregnant wife is excited and pumped, and everybody's like, yeah, fucking pizza, right? It shows up. Now remember, this is an Italian household, okay? So they bring the pizzas, my small bread with sauce or whatever, and the large, what's supposed to be pepperoni pizza. Now, I want you guys to guess what's the worst possible wrong pizza you could send to an Italian household? Oh my God, Hawaiian. Fucking Hawaiian, Hawaiian. So Jessica opens it. I feel like somebody knew it was you. Somebody must've known it was you. Yeah, someone's like, oh, DiStefano, I bet that's that one. Jessica opens it, right? And she's like, remember, she's, she can give up. Bro, I hope this is like a troll. I think this is so great. So she could give birth at almost any moment. I mean, the due date's like in a couple of weeks, but you know how they say after a certain point, you could have the baby, it's not early. So she's like full on pregnant, looking forward to this pizza. My kids are excited. They never get pizza. It shows up. She goes to get it, even though she's like, you know, uncomfortable or whatever. She actually gets off the couch and goes to get it. I can tell she's excited. We're all excited, right? She gets it, opens it up. Fuck, real loud. I'm like, oh shit. I'm like, what happened? The wrong pizza. So I'm like, oh, okay, what is it? A combination? Like everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll deal with it. Imagine the worst one. Bro, I walk over to it, pineapple on my pizza. I'm like, are you serious right now? So then I go watch this to Jessica. I said, watch my kids. Like pizza snobs. I said, hey kids, they brought the wrong pizza. Oh really? What is it? They walk over, they open it. Oh, I'm going back to my room. They didn't even eat it. No. Damn, that's crazy. So you know what she did, which is funny. Cause she was so hungry. We ended up ordering another one, but we had to wait another 45 minutes or whatever. So cause she was so hungry, she like forced herself to eat a slice. And then she's like, this is gross. She's like, I'm going to see if the neighbor wants it. So she screenshots a picture of our pizza with a slice missing. With a slice missing. Do you want the rest of this? Sent it to our neighbor. I'm like, honey, they don't think that's weird. You know, you mentioned our neighbor sends it. Hey, we don't, we didn't finish on the song. You really hated this dish. You want some? By the way, we never talked to these people or anything. You know what I mean? So we just had their members in the case of emergency. Oh my God. I'm like, babe. I feel like there's like a card of like some beach body person. But what's, hey, what's even better though, is she's, she sent a picture of the, like one slice missing pizza to the guy next door and then sent an explanation afterwards. The explanation didn't go through. So all he got was a picture of the pizza for like 10 minutes. And he's like, yeah, that was kind of weird. I just saw a picture of the thing like, maybe you thought you were trying to flirt with them. Hey, I got this pizza over here. Husbands out of town. I already have a slice. Hey, pizza guy. You want to come over, have some pizza? Anyway, of all things, right? Speaking of food, speaking of food, this was a funny experience yesterday. Doug was walking around the studio, not the studio, the, our gym area, whatever and going outside a little bit. And he had a little plastic cup full of colorful cereal. And he's just snacking on it. I saw that. He eats it dry all the time. If nobody, if nobody, if we didn't know it was magic spoon, like, could you imagine somebody walked by fitness permission? That was the one I opened, right? The one out there. Cause I was through the same thing before that. Cause I was so hungry. Like, normally it's, we have some like beef sticks. We have something like kind of hanging around. But like, I was like in the back looking for anything. And I'm like, dude, magic spoon. Yes. And I just started. Why don't you guys eat it dry more? Do you eat it dry a lot? I like it with milk. I mean, if it's the only option, I'll eat it dry. When I was a kid, I used to eat dry cereal all the time. I never eat it dry. It's a nice little snack. I mean, I told you guys before that, that's like one of the challenges. It's a protein snack. Yeah, it's a, there's no microwave at his place. And so, you know, we don't heat up his normal meals. You give him a little baggy of magic spoon? He has one of those little, you, I know your son has it too. You know, the ones with their hands. Oh, would they call it snack catcher? Yeah. Yeah. Such a great invention. I know. It's so stupid. I know there's a lot of little things that kids have now that didn't exist back when I was a kid or had my brother and sister who were you. Pit and return of the Jedi. It's so smart though. It's like really clever. Cause what little kids do at that age is they, they grab everything and like 90% of it falls out and they get the one, you know what I'm saying? And so it does it naturally. It's like whoever thought of that was, I think it was brilliant. Dude, my kid right now, my younger, my young one, he, he's, he's figured out, it's very obvious now. He's figured out his, how his cuteness can like, like how he can use it, right? To his advantage. So he's, yesterday he's acting like a toddler. So if he doesn't get his attention, he'll scream, ah, and you know, he'll, he'll, you know, he's got this thing now where he bites. So if he, if he wants to hug you, he hugs you, he grits his teeth, but then he'll bite and he bit Jessica kind of hard. And so she got mad at him, right? And he just do, he's just acting like a toddler, which can, you know, make you, make you want to pull your hair out. Just acting like a little shit. So I'm like, you know, listen, don't yell, don't scream, don't throw hard things. He'll throw a phone at someone's face. Like, don't, that's not, you can't throw that. You could throw the fluffy things. He's got such boy energy. Just going, just going nuts. So then I opened the freezer and I pull out, we have this like, it's not ice cream. It's, what's that ice cream that doesn't have dairy in it? It's more like a fruit sorbet. So I pull out the sorbet out of the freezer that we have that every once in a while. So I pull it out and he sees it from across the room. And he runs over to me and he goes, hello. I'm like, what's up buddy? I'm like, you know, you've been screaming a lot and not really, and kind of acting up, sorry. And he does a little sorry sign. And then he makes this cute face. Hello. I'm like, are you acting cute right now? Cause you want some sorbet, buddy? Ba-ba, ba-ba, hug. Those big eyes. Gives me a hug. I'm like, this kid already figured out. It's wild how quick they, they learn that manipulation like that. Oh dude. So Max has learned all the, so it's so funny to watch him right now with the, so like in school and he's learning all the like angry, sad, happy, like all the facial expressions and what they all mean and everything. And so recently I was, Katrina and I, I was like, hey, you know, he's, and he's healthy, fine. He's not been sick in quite a long, quite a long time now. And a few times he's, he's come in a room and climbed into bed. And like, when it happens, occasionally, it's not a big deal, but if it like is consistently happening every night, I normally will say something to Katrina like, hey, are you gonna keep letting him get in the bed or are you gonna make him go back? And she's like, I know I've just been tired. I've, I've let him come in a few times. And so she, the, the last couple of nights, she's been, she's been good about taking him back to his bed and not letting him like climb in. Okay, come on, son. Let's go back to your bed. But he gets in there. He comes in the last night and he, he comes up to her and she's like, okay, let's go. And he goes, I'm sad. It's just, she's just like, oh honey, she picks him up and she's like, are you okay? This thing, I'm sad. He just keeps saying I'm sad. I'm like, oh my God, this, this pool is totally manipulating her right now. He's not sad. There's nothing for him to be sad about right now. Aurelius does that. He'll, he'll like you, like again, also yesterday, like I said, he was acting like a little, like he just had a lot of energy and he's in the other room. And then he gets up and he walks over to Jessica and goes, oh, boo boo, boo boo, boo boo, which is like, oh my baby. It's this whole thing that he does when he gets, you know, it's like, he was, you hurt yourself in the other room. You walked all the way over here to tell your mom that you got a boo boo, but it's, you know, little boys do that really well with their moms, don't they? Oh no, I'll be wrestling. My daughter hits me like that, really good. I'll be, I'll be wrestling with Max and he'll do this, like he'll bump his head or do something. Oh, and he'll literally get up from me, walk and go find his mom to let him, oh my, hit my head, owie, owie, and it's like, you're so funny. Yeah, you know what my daughter does, she's older, she's a teenager, right? But she does this real well. She'll be sitting down and she'll just order me around. And I'm like, do it for her. Papa, can you get me a, you know, I'm thirsty, I need a glass of water. And I just, you know, automatic, bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, here's some, hey, you want something else? Oh yeah, of course. Can you make me some popcorn? Yeah, absolutely, honey, bup, bup, bup, bup, and Jessica's like, you know, you really need to stop manipulating your dad, you know, stop ordering around, you know, that's silent, you know, and I'm like, I don't even realize you're doing it, you know? But she's really good at it. Yeah, I had to check my two kids on that. He's like, it's a Courtney all the time. I'm like, you go get up and get it, you know? They're just, I would like this, you know, could you make this for me right now and some scrambled eggs while you're at it? Absolutely. Like, dude, get up and go help. You lazy little shit. That's hilarious. Hey, I want to comment on, yesterday Josh Trent came in, good friend of ours, and we had a wonderful show. Great, great, great time with you. What a nice guy. We love Josh. You know, you meet, sometimes you meet, we connected with him the first time we met him, was it four years ago, five years ago? It has to be at least five years ago, right? Yeah, you were in a podcasting event. Yeah, and he saw us. And he had us on his podcast, and he, you know, one of the best interviewers I think I know, just from a, he does a lot of preparation, but he's just a great conversationalist, but he genuinely is a good guy. So it's really nice to sit down and talk to the guy, and he's just a nice guy. I remember when we first met, and you know, when we were doing like the interview circuit, right? That was like the only way to grow the show back then, and we did a lot, right? Remember how many we used to do a month? And I remember first meeting him and going, and all of us right afterwards, like, that was probably one of the best interviewers we've met. And I mean, he is, he's an incredible community. And I think too, a lot of that is just because he is authentic. Yeah. And you put all of us in a room together, like there's nothing scripted, there's no, I mean, I am a little nervous though. I know Douglas. Oh no. Oh yeah. I mean, we touched a little bit. I told Katrina when we got home, she's like, oh, how was the interview? We touched every third rail. I said, she goes, how was the interview? I said, you know, I said, honestly, it was one of my favorite conversations I've had in a really long time. I said, I think we talked for two hours, but I said, we did spirituality, religion, COVID. What else did we do? I mean, we literally touched every third rail in that conversation. So we'll see how the audience receives it because we didn't really think about what we were talking about. We just kind of let the conversation go. Just the honest conversation. It's nice when you, it reminds me of when you're a trainer, when you figured that out. Like the reason why Josh is such a good interview, yeah, he's got good conversational skills, very eloquent, he's got good verbal fluency, blah, blah, blah. But really what it is is when you talk to him, you feel like you can say anything because you feel like he's going to hear what you have to say. There's not really any judgment. And he's also will open up back to you. And I remember discovering that as a trainer where, oh, if I don't act like Superman, like I know everything with my clients and let them know, oh, I know you, you're struggling with weight. You know, when I first started working out, I had some body image issues that I really had to deal with. When I would open up that way, it was so much more effective as a coach and trainer because then my clients felt like they could really open up and talk to me. Josh does that really well. He just does that really well, allows you to just kind of be yourself. Oh yeah, I had, did you get interviewed by the, I think her last, her name is Jody, I can't remember her last name, she is fearlessly authentic as her podcast. Ooh, I don't know. She's 60, she's 62. She was runner up for sports illustrated cover when she was 58. I did not believe her when we were first talking. She looks 30 something. Really? Yeah, crazy. But she was asking about, like she's, she also listens to the show, you know, like if there was, you know, did we formulate the conversation and what made it so successful? So honestly it was really the conversation, I think that we were all having with our clients. And I think one of the biggest keys that we had all already had come to before we did the podcast was how important it was to be vulnerable to your clients. So they would then open up and share with you. So then you could truly do the work and help them. You know, vulnerable, what that means by the way, cause you see a lot of people who think they're like, oh, here's what authentic is. Fake vulnerability. Yeah, what it is, it's not necessarily showing weakness or challenges that you have, that's part of it. Really being vulnerable means being really yourself. Transparent. Now why does that make you vulnerable? Because if people reject you, you can't go back and say, well, that's not the real me. I think if they reject you, they really reject you. So that's what makes you vulnerable. Real vulnerability to me is when put in that position where somebody asks you a question that you're not ready for it, and no, you are truly honest. And what you see on social media right now is this manufacturing of authenticity or vulnerability where people are like, you go make an Instagram story or a picture and you go, oh, I too have fat or oh, I had a period, oh, and they do this post. It's like, that's not true vulnerability. You sat down, you thought about what you wanted to say to a manufacturer. Real vulnerability is somebody hits you on the spot and asks you a really fucking tough question that hits an insecure spot of you or puts an area, it makes you have to talk about something that you're uncomfortable and you do it anyways because being radically honest is more important to you than looking a certain way. That's true vulnerability to me. The worst ones are the pictures of that people will post of themselves crying. Oh, yeah. Oh my God, I was so sad I was crying, like you stopped, you took a picture of yourself and you posted it. Hold on a second. I don't know about you guys, but when I'm just, when I feel like that, the last thing of my mind is I'm gonna take a picture of myself. And that's not me. And by the way, that's not being inauthentic to do that. It's very authentic. When you feel that way, I don't want, I'm not trying to share it with a bunch of people that I don't truly know. I'll share it with you guys. That's so cringe to me. It's so cringe to me when I see that. It's weird. It's not real. It's totally trying to. All right, so Adam, I'm gonna take a quick left here because you and I, there was a topic that we kind of shared, but from a different angle. So let me start with what I read. I love to hear what you had to read. I read a statistic that only 2% of people truly love their jobs. So 2% of people, honestly, love what they do. Now that doesn't mean that everybody hates their jobs. I didn't know that. Yeah, it doesn't mean everybody hates their jobs. No, of course, just look at it as work. There's 2% of people that really find deep passion in it. Now, what that tells me is, like I did at the beginning of this podcast with fitness, stop trying to find this deep passion work, rather learn how to like what you do. Otherwise, you're gonna be chasing jobs all the time. Be a boomer or not. Because it's super rare, right? It's super rare where somebody really does something that's super passionate about and it's this big source of meaning for that. Well, you know what's really fascinating about that? I mean, that obviously means to, that includes entrepreneurship, which means that also is people that went and built something they thought they wanted to build and then they didn't love it as much as they thought they did. Well, I wonder what percentage of the population are actual entrepreneurs and then what percentage of them love what they do. I bet it's a much higher percentage, right? Of those, yeah. I mean, actually, what you're talking about, I was watching the interview with, do you remember who Sam Parr's co-host is, Doug? Don't recall his name now. So they have a podcast called- I love their clips. It's really good. My first million. And he was talking about, he was giving advice about not searching for a job and hunting for a job. And I thought that was a really cool way to put it. And he says, you know, so many people when they need a job, they go searching for a job and they'll look for an opportunity and then weigh it out whether they want to do it or not. Versus looking at the landscape and a perfect example of this to me is the story of Enzo getting in with Mind Pump. He wanted to work with us so bad that he found ways to create an opportunity for him. We weren't looking, we weren't hiring. We didn't even want anybody at that time. But he wanted to work here so bad that he had, obviously he tried going the direct way which is, hey, can I work here? Is there any job opportunities? Of course, did we shut it down? No, no. And eventually he worked his way around to hiring Jessica as a trainer, won her over and then she then introduced him to you, won you over and then we literally created an opportunity for him because we liked him so much. And so that was kind of like the first person that I thought of when I heard that of, and I think that this is what I would do. Like if, let's say this imploded and we didn't have Mind Pump anymore and I had to go figure things out, I would look at what do I want to do? Okay, go look at all the careers or positions or employers that offer that and even if they're not hiring, that doesn't matter to me. Hunt it. I'm gonna hunt it. I'm gonna go get up on LinkedIn, I'm gonna look at all the people that work there and then I'm gonna find a way to either meet them on social media or meet them in person and get to know them and find out what the company does and like learn about the business and then learn if, are there any holes that I can feel that they are potentially or improve areas, something that they're doing? And so I think that's such a better strategy at getting a good job or getting a job that you really want to do versus like, oh, I'm jobless or I want a better job, so I'm just gonna put my resume out there, see what comes back. Instead, why don't you go look for what you really want to do and find a way, even if they're not hiring because many times, just like it happened to us, we weren't looking for a position, but I mean, if you're a good employer or you're good at building a business, rarely ever will you deny somebody who you think could be a potential A player. You'll find a way. You'll find a way or make a position for them or do something to allow them to potentially prove themselves because they had already done such a good job of working their way. Yeah, that's how I became a trainer. I became a trainer. I walked in and I asked, I had just turned 18, I had to be old enough because I remember they said, you can't work here unless you're 18. I walked up to the front desk, asked for an application, they gave it to me, then I went and I asked for the manager, manager's not here, is there a manager under them? And it was the fitness manager that came out and I literally made my interview right then and there, shook his hand and basically did my sales talk as to why he needs to hire me. It was such a good conversation when they said that because I actually had never really thought about that. And I thought, you know, actually that's exactly what I would do if this wasn't working out. Like I wouldn't go like put my thing on monstersjob.com or whatever those websites are and like, let's see what I get. I would literally go, who do I want? I would look at my list of people I know and go target somebody and what they do and then find a way and I would do my homework, right? I would like, okay, I want to work for him or I want to work for her. I want to work for that company. What do I want to do for that company? And then go like, okay, what skills would that job probably need to entail? Okay, let me learn everything I can about it and find a way that I could support them on my own time, not asking anything in return, just to prove that I'm of value. Yeah, yeah. And in the meantime, figure out how to reframe what you're doing to make your basic needs met so that way you're not miserable. It's like everybody has a job that's, they have to do it at the time because this is what is available. This is what's paying the bills. I feel like we've gone so far away from that and we're still like, we have this idea of some fantastical job that's gonna change the world and gonna do all these things for you when in fact, a lot of it's right there in front of you, the lesson that you need to learn right then and there. Yeah, and that's because people, we are sold. This is a big lie. We're sold that we're gonna find our purpose and meaning in our work and that is rare. You know what I would like to see too, since you brought that stat up and this would be an interesting one, of the 2%, how many of them would still feel the same way even if they were doing something else? That's, because this is where I have a hard time. Right, is it the job or the person? That's right, because I have a really hard time when I get asked like someone that's searching for purpose or trying to find this dream job because I can't relate to that because I've done a lot of things in my life as far as for money working and I've found a way to like all of them. I mean, from shoveling shit, to mowing lawns, to vending machines, to car washing, huh? The bees are the only one. Yeah, but you're a beekeeper. That's fair, that's fair, that was one that I was like, I can't do this. You have limits, there's so many. That's probably, actually it's funny you say that, it's probably the only thing that I was like. I know it is, you've said that before. Hell no, it's like the only thing that was like. Was it the first day on the job and then they came out to suit, right? Yeah, yeah, it was a great one. I felt like what it was going down is butt crack. I was like, oh, I can't do this, I can't do this, no matter what. I get that. Right, that is like the only thing I probably said, I can't do this. That was plumbing for me when one of the pipes like fell and then I had like human excrement on my arm and I was like, I am never doing this. Oh yeah, you know what's funny? We all did this with fitness, we all did. How long did we all stick with fitness until it turned into a mind pump? Oh yeah. Fitness is a hard space to support a family. I'm just gonna tell you that in California at least or in the Bay Area, it's a hard space. But we all stuck to it for like two and a half decades. I mean, like all the other jobs, what I learned to do, it's funny because it's the exact same advice that we give with a client teaching them how to learn to love the journey with exercise is I actually don't focus on the parts of the job I don't like. I don't focus on, oh, I had to get up at four o'clock in the morning. I don't focus on, oh, the cow would shit on me every once in a while. I don't focus on that. I have all this autonomy and freedom. It's so cool. I can go at my own pace and speed. Oh, I can listen to the radio stations that I wanna listen to. Like, oh, I can eat and drink at the same time while I'm doing this. I focus on, oh, I get to drive this really cool quad and tractor. I constantly would focus on the aspects of it that I enjoyed and reframed how I looked at it. And I really think that advice plays right into how we talk to people about loving their fitness. Stop thinking about the soreness and how slow the grind is to get to the goal and start connecting the dots to all the things that you enjoy and like about the process. Right. Check this out. You're not what you eat. You're what you digest. If you have digestive issues, you may not be assimilating all the proteins, fats and carbohydrates that your body should be. In other words, you're not getting the gains you should get. You're not getting the performance you should get. Well, sometimes the solution is to have extra digestive enzymes or put it differently. Your body's not making enough digestive enzymes, especially as you get older. Supplementing with digestive enzymes can be a game changer. There's only one company we work with that does this that we respect. And that's Mass Zymes. They make digestive enzymes for athletic-minded, fitness-minded people. Go check them out. Go to masszymes.com. It's M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S.com forward slash mind pump. And then use code MINDPUMP10 for 10% off any order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first question is from Pete Kendrick1. What the heck is turkesterone and is it any good? Oh, I have no idea. It's a turkesterone. You're the only one that's experimented with this, right? So, yeah. So, ectosteroids, ectosteroids is the actual name of these compounds are insect hormones, but they're also compounds found in plants. And they have a molecular structure that's similar to androgens like testosterone, okay? Now, they don't attach to the androgen receptor. So it's not like they go, you take them and then they attach to the androgen receptor like a steroid would. Nonetheless, these compounds have been studied for a long time, especially in the Soviet Union. And they have been shown to have muscle building, recovery boosting, adaptogenic type of effects on the body. Side effects like exoskeleton, thorax growth. You throw up on your food and then you do. No, no, actually. So, I'll talk about my personal experience in a second. I'm just gonna talk about the studies. There's studies that show that giving it to sheep increases their wool production and their body mass. They'll give it to other animals and they'll see more muscle mass, better recovery. There's some human studies. The Soviet Union did a study with athletes where they actually compared it with an anabolic steroid. It actually outperformed. This is in a six week, I think it was, or 10 week study. So it was a short study. It actually outperformed this anabolic. There was a study that compared it to diantibals. This is a classic. Is this legal? Yeah, yeah. Ectosteroids are legal. Probably will become controlled if they aren't already, sorry, not controlled, but will probably become banned at some point by, what's the committee that determines what's banned in the Olympics? What is that? Because that's the UFC. Yeah, but anyway. QAnon, it's like that. No, not that either Adam. You might want to switch one out. Totally different organization. Yeah. I was just getting through it right. Basketball. Pytocondria? It's, no, whatever the governing body is. Water. Water, thank you. Maybe Doug, look up ectosterone and water. I think they might have already banned it or they're putting it on a potential of a list to ban, which then spiked the interest in these products, right? Oh, of course. As soon as Wada says, hey, don't take this, everybody's like, it must work. Yeah. So it's interesting. The studies are interesting on it. And I can find studies that show, like I actually pulled some up here. You know, there's studies that show that it's, it doesn't have too many negative side effects, if any at all, it boosts the immune system, enhances athletic performance, improves insulin sensitivity, helps on muscle growth. Here's my experience with ectosteroids. Now I've never taken turquesterone. Turquesterone is just another way to get ectosteroids. I've taken ectosterone, which is the one that traditionally people would use. It works. It's actually the one supplement I've ever used. What does it say there, Doug? For ectosterone, it's sufficient for placing it on the prohibited list. Yeah, so, you know, Wada is looking at it and saying, hey, this might be prohibited. Do you think that's ever, do you think like somebody like writes that, like it's connected to it to like, because of the point you made? They'd be a smart marketer if they did. Right, I think that would just be like, just to write a bunch of, you know, blogs saying that, oh, Wada's considering taking it off and banning it. I would think that if I never used it and didn't experience it. Doug, scroll up and look at that study. Click on that study. Yes, there's no turquesterone, it's not banned. No, no, no, not yet. It's on the list of potential. Scroll up, Doug. There was a study there, right there, Ectosteroids as non-conventional anabolic agents. Let's see what Wada says about it. Maybe Doug, you could scroll down and I'm gonna talk about my experience and maybe you can read a little bit what they say. Actually it's short, what does that say there? Let's see here, I'm trying to find the heart of this. Yeah, I may have to get this. You might have to download the whole thing. Download the whole thing, I'm not sure what it says. As non-conventional, scroll up again. As non-conventional, nope, keep going. Up, up, up. Anabolic agents, pharmacodynamics, pharmaconetics, and detection of ectosterone. So they're talking about how to detect it in your blood. So they're looking at ways to test it. So okay, so here's my experience with it. I used it, the first time I ever used ectosterone is probably late 90s, maybe late 90s. I remember reading, I don't remember what magazine it was, but there was this article about like Soviet era supplements and studies. By the way, the Soviets studied rhodiola, which we now know increases athletic performance. They were the ones that really talk about that first. Lots of training techniques came out of the Soviet Union. You got to keep consider the Soviet Union, right, being communist, they viewed the Olympics as a way to display the- It's their showcase. Yeah, this is how we can display the superiority of our political system. And so they spent tremendous amounts of money and science and they skirted the ethics quite a bit on trying to produce the best athletes in the world in different sports to the point where they would literally find a kid and say, this kid has showing potential, you'll come to our state sponsored facility and we're gonna train you in swimming or weightlifting or wrestling in hopes that you'll make the Olympics. We'll pay your, we'll give your parents X amount of whatever, cause now you live with us. And then you're now under the care of the state and they'll do all kinds of things with your tests and different training methodologies. So a lot of crazy stuff came out of the Soviet Union and some of it was around like these natural compounds or compounds that could potentially improve athletic performance and that these steroids were up there. So they're natural compounds, you find them in plants, you find some in spinach, you'd have to eat a shit ton of spinach though to get the efficacious dose. Here's my experience, they work. I took them and the first time I took them I built muscle, I got better pumps, my libido went up and it felt a lot like or similar to the designer steroids that I used in the early 2000s, like some of the ones that were over the counter back in those days. Interesting, a diner or whatever. No, not that. I mean, they were actual like super drawl, which now bodybuilders and power lifters will buy on the black market because it's been banned. But back then it was over the counter. It feels, it felt similar to these designer steroids. Now here's the downside of it. The results you get from it are like 45 days. I would notice you get these great results after about 45 to 60 days, you plateau notice nothing, then you go off and you would notice a dip. So it wasn't like creatine that you could take all the time forever and great, great results. But you did get strength gains, my recovery would go through the roof, my appetite would go up, that's the other one. I'd have crazy dreams, that's another weird side effect. I put Doug on Ekdi Sterone a couple of times and here's my client. You notice the same stuff, right, Doug, when you were on them? Yeah, I did. Yeah, just like this. That was very short lived. Like 45 days, right? Do you know what my thoughts on stuff like this is and why I actually don't know very much about it is when you look at the things that, when in the pursuit of building muscle, because that's what these people that are attracted to this, right? In the pursuit of building muscle, how much supplements play in that role of you having success in that direction. It's such a tiny fraction. And then when you add in like, how much research goes in to try to figure these things out and so far for decades now, longer than decades now, we have literally had nothing come out that is better than plain old creatine and even plain old creatine in the grand scheme of things is not a game changer of a difference for muscle. So, and if something ever hits the market and actually shows to put on more muscle or be superior to creatine, the whole fucking world is gonna know. Like overnight, like it will be on the news, it will be in the front of every cover of magazines, everybody will be talking about, and so I really don't- The reason why creatine is so- Did you say mass whole? Mass whole. Mass whole. Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by Mass Hall. Use code MyCom for your track history. You know what it is, is creatine has got health benefits. You take it long-term, you get health benefits, all sort of stuff. Ectosteroids, you'll get a short-term effect. They plateau, then you kind of notice this negative effect. But you get my point though, right? Oh yeah, you know why it stuck out to me? Do you know why Ectosteroids took out to me? Why? It was a supplement that did something. How often do you take a supplement? I mean, there's a point there for sure. You know what I mean? It's temporary, you felt the effects, it's very hard to find something that actually, you know, you feel it. That's it. And honestly, the person that actually would get some sort of benefit from any of these, or the athletes, who it's getting banned from. And so, I mean, the ones that are already checking all the crazy boxes, sleep is dialed, nutrition is dialed, training is dialed, consistency is dialed, like all that is progressive overload is dialed, everything's dialed. And so they're like, oh, we can get. Not a matter of a competitive advantage. Yes, that's right. Can I get an extra 2% out of this? You know what's interesting by the way, when they did studies on Ectosteroids here in the States, they tried to see if it affects, because at first when they marketed it like, testosterone booster, and then they did a hormone test. No, it doesn't change testosterone. Doesn't attach to the androgen receptor. They think it might be mediating its effects through the estrogen receptor, which makes me cautious to use this if I'm a woman. Because those effects could be more pronounced or have more potential negatives in a woman. I mean, that would make me cautious as even a man, because you mess with the estrogen levels. Not estrogen levels, but I know what you mean. And again, I did notice a dip when I go off of them. You know, it's funny by the way, the last time I talked about Ectosteroids on this podcast, a supplement company that sold Ectosterone clipped me talking about it and used it as an ad. We have zero connection to a company that sells these products, and we never will. But try mine pump code. Yeah, yeah, try that anyway. No, we have no connection. We never will. It does have some effects. It is interesting, but Adam's 100% right. It's not in the top 50 of things that he's talking about. You're gonna know. That's why I tell you, the people that we get, this is by far one of the most popular DMs I think I get, especially from young men, is they want me to give my opinion on all these different psalms and all these different supplements that are out there, and it's like, listen dude, when something that is like really worth it, that's gonna be like really move the needle, everybody's gonna know. And you're gonna hear us talk about it all the time because it's gonna be that, it's gonna blow everyone's mind. Anything that passes creatine is going to like blow everybody's mind. This may work, but I mean, there's a .00 per chance. Ah, fuck it, I'm not gonna tell the joke. You might grow mandibles. This was gonna be joke, yeah, it's fuck. Hey, you know what, that would not stop some dudes from trading. That's what I mean. You wouldn't stop me without 60. Sal, you're gonna gain 50 pounds of muscle, but you're gonna grow mandibles. Okay, let's do this. Let's go, let's party. Next question is from Emily Fisher. Are the hip abductor adductor machines a waste of time? All right, there is no exercise that exists that doesn't have some value in the right application. Okay, all right. In the right context. You started on the right path. There's some value that could be used from pretty much anything that exists out there in the exercise space. That being said. Yes. There are plenty of other options that I would always rather do. So if someone made a case, right? They said like, oh, X, Y, and Z, this is why I think it has value. I'd say, okay, well, I would do this exercise instead. So I don't, I feel like it's almost a waste of time or worthless not because there's not value in training those muscles because they're absolutely. Or using those machines. Yeah, it could be, but they're like, I would rather do a band walk, walking lateral, a tube walking. Or lateral, you know, sled drag or sled either. Or lateral lunges. Lunges. Lunges. Even classic squats. Yes. Or a step up to a balance. And, you know, so I would rather do all of those exercises than that. Now, why? This is an important part because the adductors and abductors perform as stabilizers. That's one of the kind of main job. Now they can kind of be there. I mean, they're movers. They're not really prime movers. Yeah, they're movers, but really what they do is stabilize when you're prime movers like your glutes and your quads and your hamstrings are making you do things. Hence why I said step up to a balance. Exactly, like you train them in the way that they are going to gain the most benefit. And that typically involves doing lateral movements, you know, movements that involve other muscles as well. But okay, so what might be more important is to say, well, when would this be appropriate? And when would these machines, the applicable, you know. I've used them. Some form of rehab. Yeah, I think it would apply. Or maybe a primer. Maybe like real quick to get on there and do some light. You maybe don't have a tube on you or whatever like that. And so you don't want to get too fatigued by doing something like a step up to a balance. So I just want to get those firing and then go into my squats. So I could see that. I've used these machines recently because I've discovered such an imbalance with my abductors in particular that doing movements that really challenged my abductors like sled drags, just it wasn't applicable at the time because my form was so bad. So I first started with the super basic kind of isolation exercise. Then when I felt connecting to, like I could connect to them a little stronger, then I moved to the lateral type stuff. So that's an application, but rehab mostly. I've had clients on it because they can't do almost anything else that involves, you know, strengthening those areas. So this is easy, sit here and just use this muscle. Yeah, I've had clients where it made sense and like, you know, they're super dominant and externally rotated and everything was like pushing outward. So the muscle development, you know, for abduction was just like pretty crazy. So to be able to kind of build some strength and at least, you know, trying to develop muscles there was an important factor. But even then I preferred using rubber bands quite a bit more and using lunges and things like that to include the whole body and the movement of it. But there is, I mean, you can make some cases for it for sure. Next question is from Walker Bryan 65. How do you find a balance between gaining the benefits of mental fortitude through hard exercise and not over-training? For example, David Goggins. When is it worth overstepping to gain mental strength? I picked this question because, you know, we've, I think we've come out a couple of times talking about, you know, yeah, none of us really want to have David Goggins on the show and I want to make a couple things clear. This was one, I actually think I would really like David Goggins. He sounds, he sounds cool as fuck. I personally like that message, you know, I like that. But I don't like it for the masses because I think it ends up setting a lot of people up for failure because let's be honest, none of us are going to be David Goggins, right? The mental fortitude that man has is unbelievably inspiring. And I think the overall message, like I do think that we're turning into a bunch of pussies. So I do like this idea of like, we all need to stay hard, toughen up a little bit. But I caution people that are looking to get into health and fitness of using that as their motivation to drive them through their exercises because I know that's a failing formula. And so that's kind of my stance on that messaging. So it's not a personal thing. And I think people have thought that because I've said some things before about him, like actually, but I really like the dude and I do like the message, but I know that who we're trying to communicate to. And I know that sets up most people, believe it or not, for failure. Even though he's right, more people need to push through that mental fortitude, more people need to have that discipline. Here's where I- Extreme environments, it makes perfect sense, right? Like if you're gonna be out on a battlefield, you're gonna die. You gotta fucking have the ultimate mental fortitude you could possibly have. And so I think that in situations like that or like extreme high level performance sports and everything is just like kill or be killed, kind of a situation like with football playing or whatever it is, like that type of a message I think applies a bit better. But in terms of like your everyday fitness, it's just a losing strategy. There's a hierarchy and there's an order of these skills that you develop. And before you get to, I can handle extreme pain, extreme temperature, extreme challenges that make me wanna break down and cry, make me wanna quit, but I push through. Before you get there, there's something else that you have to get to first, which is the mental fortitude required to have discipline and be consistent for years and years and years. You can't get to the I can handle and get beat up until you can handle the consistency aspect, okay? And which one's gonna have more value for the average person, the consistency part. So everybody's like, oh, look, here's a deal. I bet I could take the average person and I bet I can beat them up in a workout. And I bet that they'll enjoy that beat up, beat me up workout once or twice. But you know what's gonna be harder for them? Can you show up for the rest of your life and workout? Can you show up for five years consistent? Can you show up for a year working out three days a week consistently? So that's the mental fortitude that we need to work on first. Before a Navy SEAL becomes a Navy SEAL, he has to understand or she has to understand, I gotta show up and be consistent. I gotta have discipline. So it's great to look at David Goggins and be like, oh my God, that's insane. But if you're at home struggling with stringing together three months of consistent exercise or stringing together, eating healthy for a couple months, that doesn't apply to you anymore. Like don't look at that. That's great, it's fun, entertaining. Don't seek that out because there's other things you need to work on first. So that's what we focus on. We focus on the consistency which requires lots of mental fortitude. It does require that, the extreme intensity that's short lived. There's value in that but after you develop that discipline, after you develop those behaviors and those patterns. Also understand that we're attracted to these extremes. And so when you see the angiotates, the liver kings, the Goggins, just to name a few extreme people in these categories, they go viral because we're attracted to it or we are adverse to it so much that we can't look away, right? We wanna see what's going on, even though I don't agree with it but I can't stop but look. And so these people get highlighted on math and why we're not as popular is because we're nuanced. Because you asked me a question, I probably never give you a straight answer because I go depends. Can this message be incredibly perfect and valuable for someone? Yeah, the right person at the right time and their journey in their life may need exactly that or the right scenario. You're getting ready to go into war. You're a football player and you need to push through. Like you give up all the time because you quit and so that applies to that person at that part of their life and so yeah, the answer is depends sometimes that is but for most people that are trying to live a health, a healthy and fit life and be stronger and be a little leaner and be consistent and have better relationships with your family and basically the whole rest of the sphere, those people like for the most part, this message isn't really for you, I promise. Yeah, we kind of create idols out of some people we admire too, right? In terms of like professional sports and say it's like an actor or somebody or like that's really good at their craft and they're just amazing and then they talk about what they do on the daily basis and how they approach the world and when in fact the context of that just does not translate at all to what you're doing and your journey and your path. So there's just definitely like a disconnect there. It's not that we condone the message just that it might not apply to the majority of people. Also the fitness space has been filled with this message for decades. This is not a message. We need a new one. This message doesn't need to be communicated. This is the message that I heard when I first started and it's the message that continues to be pushed. It's what drives extreme workouts and extreme diets and diet pills and shit like that. It's what pushes all that. You know what message needs to get pushed more? The one that we talk about all the time that's harder to sell, that takes longer. It's longer conversation. Not as interesting. It's not as sexy, right? So that's the conversation that needs to be had. Not the like push through, you could do it. Be smooth. Suck it up buttercup. That's an easy message to push. It's an easy message to sell, especially if you're a maniac. If you're like David Goggins who for all intents and purposes is nothing like anybody watching this podcast right now, you watch him do some shit and he can sell that message very well. The guy's a badass, no doubt. That's right. Next question is from Michael Trenler. Any advice on entering the fitness media space like you guys? Oh boy. I'm assuming this, can you look at their handle to see if they're like a trainer already? Did you see or are they? I looked it up. I don't, I think they have a private account. Oh yeah. They'll start, well start by making your account unprivate because you're not gonna get a lot of people following you. You're hiding from us. So that's your trick. I can tell you what not to do, what I think you shouldn't do. Okay, that's good. What I think you shouldn't do is try to sell fitness by looking buffed, hot, or sexy, or attractive. I know that there's a lot of fitness, there's a lot of people in our space who make money doing it that way, but it's rare. You're probably not gonna be able to compete with those anomalies. And it's also short-lived. You're only gonna look young and crazy looking for a certain period of time. And if you identify with that so strongly, that becomes your brand, boy is aging gonna be tough. You know, that's an interesting point that you use that as your first thing to go to. Like not do. Yeah, because, I mean, let's be honest. I mean, that was kind of what we did to first get the, I mean, our first few hundred listeners came from my Instagram following. So, and it was built off of me building my physique and show. So, I kind of played that game to get the original attention. Now, I do 100% agree with you because you don't want to double and triple down. I mean, I remember how frustrating it was for me for the first like two years of the podcast that I was like, I felt like I had to be that guy because that's what everybody learned about us from me being that. I'm like, God, this is not me. Right. So, I remember how frustrating that was. So, I do agree that you do not want to make that the end all be all. I do think, though, in a visual, on a visual platform, it helps to be fit when you're preaching a message around fitness. So, I do think there's somewhat of a balance. That can't be your brand and that can't be your brand. Yeah, you know, I think that's the part I really agree with you, but I think you also... You can be tactful about that, you know, in terms of it just being like the shirt off and the booty and everything like full exposure. Like you can be professional about it. So, the best advice that I think I've given to somebody who wants to build something similar to us and like when I think back like how things I might've done a little bit different with what we did or let's say I was by myself, right? Because that would be the most challenging thing was not having these great partners is, okay, how do I build something by myself with this? Well, first of all, obviously, if you're going to build a big old media company where you're trying to attract millions of people, you hopefully know your shit is somewhat you better because you're not going to attract all those people if you don't somewhat know what you're talking about. So that's the first and foremost. And then what I would do is I would actually leverage my training job, whether I'm a personal trainer or I manage trainers or run a gym or something. And I would use my daily interactions with my current clientele to drive my content. So, and why I think this is such a smart strategy is because that's already, it's going to improve my current thing. So if I was a personal trainer like I was, you know, 10 plus years ago and I've got, let's say 20 clients that I'm servicing and I have, you know, Christine that morning and she is telling me that she's got this knee issue and we're trying to troubleshoot it and figure out what's going on, why is her knee bothering her? Is it something to do with her foot? Is it her hips? And as I'm troubleshooting it with her trying to figure that out, I'm also thinking like, oh, this is a piece of content. This is a piece of content, whether that I'm somebody who talks to a camera really well or I write it really well, and then I would use the medium that I like best, right? So if you write really well, I think Sal writes really well, so things like blog and long form is like he could articulate there well. I'm probably better at communicating than I am writing for sure. So I would probably do a video of me explaining what I just helped my client out with. And now that lives as a piece of content that my current business can go back in reference. And so I'm adding value to what I'm already, already currently doing. And I'm also starting to attract other people out there in the virtual world that potentially would be suffering from these same things. And that's how I would just keep building content like that and let my current business steer what it looks like. There's a big part of what you're saying too, which is to do it right, it takes time. Here's the, and the reason why I said what I said, there's a couple of pieces to what I said. One is we are increasingly confused because of social media around the rules of business. It makes us feel like the old rules of business, which include hard work, diligence, consistency, and it takes time. Such a good point you're making right now. We think that that doesn't apply anymore. It's the same game, man, it really is. There's no difference. Because what we see is we see these, what look to be these overnight successes, and maybe some of them do exist, which is by the way, 0.001% of everybody is trying. So we see those and we think, oh, the way to build a business, first off, the old rules don't apply. So if I do this and it doesn't work in the first year, then it's not for me. There isn't a, look it, if you start any business, you gotta expect to do years of consistency before really determining whether or not it's gonna work out. You're making such a good point, Sal. And it's like, it's so much like building, and I think it's funny when I see people building like on Facebook or Instagram or YouTube, and they've only got 100 people paying attention to them. And then I look at their comments section and they're not even talking to the people that are commenting on their page. You would never do that with a physical business. You imagine 100 customers walking your door. Yeah, I mean, if one walked the door, if one person comments to you, one person DMs you, like you build a relationship with them. And that's why it is, it's a very slow grind. It's business, it's like any business and people think because it's on social media, the old rules don't apply anymore. So that's part of what I said earlier is don't try to create this brand around how hot and sexy you look. Here's what'll happen. There's two things that could potentially happen from what I just said. One is the likely one, which it ain't gonna work. You're very unlikely to be good looking enough, hot enough, sexy enough to gain the kind of viral attention that is required to build a business around it. So that's most 99.999% of you, that's true. Now the .001% where you may have the looks to make that work. And you do succeed around it, you are now in hell. Yeah, still fleeting. No, you're now in hell. You now have built an identity around your appearance which has almost no value in the real world when it comes to fitness other than people just looking at you and you're selling them shit and you try to sell them products. And then eventually you're stuck in this hell of how do I keep capturing this? I'm not looking as good. I gotta keep looking this particular way. I meet people in public. I gotta put up this fake persona. I need surgeries now. It's not, did you guys just have you guys seen the videos of Madonna? Just Madonna, the artist, she's identified so hard with being this sex icon that she's obviously in this crazy state of mental decline where she just cannot let herself age, right? Oh, I would see. You will be in hell if you build a brand over how you look, okay? Especially in fitness, as much as you care about helping people. So the biggest thing to understand is this. It's gonna take a long time, like any other business. So what does that look like? Okay, well, if you're on Instagram, post two times a day, every day, for the next however many years. Provide real content. Communicate with the people commenting on your stuff, even if it's just five people, right? Get in there, like any other business, treat it as such. It's no different than any other business. That would be the best. And you actually want that. So you could, you know how I look at, Mike and I, or Mike Matthews and I were talking about this. And he's actually writing a book and he has this brilliant way of how he's doing it. He's using Twitter for this exact reason, which is, this is how you use Twitter and YouTube and Instagram and these things like that. You use it as a massive litmus test to give you feedback if you're steering your ship in the right direction. You put out these things, like let's go back to the first example I said, I put out the knee thing. And maybe like I get, I add two followers from it. Hey, I got two new customers potentially. I'm gonna service them, I'm gonna talk to them, I'm gonna communicate with them, whatever. But then I put something out about, you know, cardio, right? We talk all about cardio. And bam, it gets like 300 people. I'm like, oh, there's something here. There's something here now. Now let me create more content in this direction. So you use social media as a great, when you're building something like this as a litmus test to steer you in the direction of the conversation you should find. And maybe there's something that you communicate better than we do. Like, I mean, we talk about all kinds of things related to fitness. And maybe there's an area that you're just, you've realized over years and most trainers have been training for awhile, figure this out, like you have a specialty. Like you just, I mean, Sal's talked about it all the time about advanced age. He was so good with that client. So if you're a trainer like Sal and that was your thing, your stick, then you should totally communicate that message and try and attract those people because you're probably gonna have the most success. But use the platforms like that. Don't use them to try and go viral. You go viral overnight and all of a sudden you have a, like think of the, people don't have everything about it. You go, oh, I want to sell private training. That's my business. I want to get into the social media game. And okay, let's pretend you've got a million people overnight and now you have tens of thousands trying to get training from you. You don't have- You have no way of- You can't service them. You can't service them. It's a big loss. Yeah, this idea of us chasing social media to go viral is not a smart strategy. I used to tell you guys all the time, like I wouldn't want that to have happened to us in year one or two. We didn't have the systems built. We didn't have the infrastructure. Yeah, we didn't have everything built to service that many people. So enjoy the process. Enjoy that it's gonna take a while and you've got to learn about your customers and you've got to kind of figure that out along the way because a lot of times you'll start a business and say, oh, I want it to look like mine pump. But then after year two, three, it ends up morphing into something totally different. Yeah, and it isn't, not to make anybody feel bad, but it's funny to me because I'll hear people say, oh, you know, I've been doing this for six months and I've only got a thousand followers or I'm only seeing this or whatever. Like, man, you know how I used to try to get a thousand? Those are all real people. I used to have to go outside, like literally physically go outside and walk up to people. Like go and walk up to people and find a way to talk to people or I'd stay in the gym and try and talk to people. Parking lots, surrounding businesses, like you're in there trying to like negotiate. Can I put like cards in here? Can I host some kind of event here to just meet people? It's so much more opportunity now, but you have to treat them like real people. 100%, I wish I had a thousand eyes on me back in the day. Oh my God, I tried to get 10 eyes on me back in the day, not a thousand, my God, a thousand would have been, I wouldn't know what to do myself. So it's there, it's just be consistent and it takes time. Don't give up so easily, all the old rules apply and build a business that you're proud of and one that you don't feel like you have to change who you are because the worst thing that could happen is you become famous for being someone you're not. We've met people like that and they're tortured. A lot of people. I would hate, could you imagine, I would hate, imagine if you made, I'm just gonna give you a scenario, this actually happened to a girl. Imagine if you built the business off of being like super vegan and then somebody catches you eating like some fish at a restaurant. That actually happened to a young lady. Took a picture of her and posted it on, like be who you are because worst case scenario is, otherwise you'd torture. You get famous and then people notice you on the street and then you gotta act like this fake person all the time. Screw that. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So, Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump, Sal. This one's really important and that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps, if you compared that person to a person who did a bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps and then three or four weeks of let's say 15 to 20 reps and then they'll throw in some supersets. At the end of that year, you're gonna see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out. And less injury, that's another thing. You'll see less injury as well.