 Welcome back to Flex Friday on the plus breakfast and it's time to take a look at our first hot topic and it's on the removal the suspension of the removal of failed subsidy as we were told yesterday by Nigeria's finance minister budget national planning Zainab Ahmed that the planned removal of failed subsidy in June of 2023 has been suspended and then she added that preparatory works will continue consultation with the state's other key stakeholders including representatives of the incoming administration. We've been joined now by Zaka Bala, comrade Zaka Bala he is an oil and gas analyst based here in Lagos state. Good morning comrade Zaka Bala good to have you on the breakfast. Thank you and good morning to our viewers and listeners across the globe. All right so here we are again talking about removal of subsidy and this time it has been postponed. What we've gotten to the stage in this discussion where it's already been established that subsidy got to go it just has to go but the but the the the bone of contention appears to be how to do it well and so let me start by asking you your thoughts on the pragmatic way to do this. Well first of all I am not in support of subsidy removal because anybody who is talking about subsidy removal from the point of a government providing goods and services for her citizen let that person define subsidy and explain subsidy to me in the area of health in the area of education in the area of security and in other area until that person defines that I will not accept that the person even knows the meaning of subsidy. Let me start giving practical examples not even directly with oil and gas. Do you know that the only reason why we have police army, navy, civil defense is because jihadi say need to provide subsidy in security because even if government to the uses to provide security some people can still provide ammo tanks for themselves and protect themselves. What does it mean if chief of defense and some military chiefs and controllers in custom immigration and the rest are mismanaging the funds then you say you scrap all the security agencies you don't do that you find the inefficiencies. The reason why you have public universities, public polytechnic, public secondary schools is because you need to provide subsidy in education. If you refuse to even provide that education some people can still provide good education for themselves. So advice chancellors, provost, health department are diverting money for lab and other studies then you scrap public education that's what people don't understand what subsidy concept is. The reason why you have teaching hospitals, federal medical centers, health centers and local defense people you need to provide subsidy in health. So if medical directors and some doctors are diverting cannabis and not a diverting drug then you scrap public health you don't do that. So when you look at the oil and gas industry you're talking about subsidy in energy so if some people whether in government ministries and whatever refuse that our refineries will not work it will not make you to scrap subsidy in energy. In all these examples I gave whether in the military, in health, in education or in energy what you do is you fight the inefficiencies. You find out instead of scrapping all the security you find out why these things are not working. If it means firing all the service chiefs you fire them. If it means firing all the advice chancellors you fire them but you don't scrap things like that and ask a very elementary question. Why is it that there are no moribund refineries in Saudi Arabia? Why are there no moribund refineries in Libya? Why are there no moribund refineries in Malaysia or Indonesia? Have you had the moribund refineries in Qatar or in Iraq or Iran? This is one of the arguments that the proponents of the removal of subsidies will bring to you. They will say that it is an organized crime because of the corruption in this sector. As we speak we are not sure of the quantity of oil that we import, the quantity of oil that Nigeria uses on a daily. These secrecy surrounding or controversy surrounding this sector is one of the reasons the proponents pushing for the removal of subsidy would get to you. That it is an organized crime because of simple answer. I have a simple answer. So because you don't know how military are diverting all the equipment, mail for Tokano jets and the rest, because you don't know how the vice-chancellors and heads of departments are diverting the money, then the whole thing is you will scrap security agencies. You will scrap public universities. You go after those inefficiencies. You go after those Nigerian individuals that have turned themselves into economic vampires, economic marauders and economic traitors because you appointed them there to look after the trust of Nigerians. So if they are not doing well, it is not the system you scrap. You go after the inefficiencies. And let me give you a practical example. If you go to a place like Saudi Arabia, they don't lose a single barrel of crude oil tickets. If they lose a single barrel of crude oil or one standard to feed feed of gas, it will be probably too leakage. Maybe integrity issues of price. It's the same thing with Libya. It's the same thing with Indonesia and Malaysia. So when I hear people talking like that, you don't scrap a universally accepted working concept. You buy inefficiencies and I can tell you if the right people are giving you opportunity within few months, everything can be checked. Let me give you how to check that. A very practical example. Anybody who designs will know that there is something we call a flowchart in computer programming. In flowchart, what you do is there is a beginning and there is an end. In between that system of the flowchart, you have decision boxes and processing boxes. If you start a process, you must get to the end. So at any point in time, you will know why that your flowchart is not working that will make you to get to the end. If it means creating some algorithm in the system, you will know. But you will always be able to know the problem. It's the same thing. If you give the right people the opportunity and they assemble the right oil and gas account and oil and gas auditors, oil and gas engineers, oil and gas journalists, oil and gas environmentalists and we go into that system and I'm telling you we will know where the fault is. Even if you are not able to solve it, but you will know what is causing the problem. Let me give you a practical example in health. Okay, before you do that, because we do not have all the time, Zakha Bala, I've interviewed you over this matter over the years and I've seen you also interviewed by other seasoned journalists on this matter and you've provided very sound solutions such as the ones you're giving to us now. But you see here we are 2023. The four major refineries in Nigeria are still in comatose, not working. Despite the turnaround maintenance that's been channeled towards their maintenance over the years. Now, how do we move forward if this sector is not opened up so that private sectors can come in, invest in this sector and fix all of these for profit? Thank you for that excellent question. All the other countries I mentioned to you that have stayed on functional refineries. If you go there and those countries are practicing what we call liberalization, you are likely to see private refineries there. In the context of Nigeria, what is happening? You use the word comatose. Why is it that there are no comatose refineries in Saudi Arabia? Why are there no comatose refineries in Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran, Iran, Qatar and the rest? That is the question you have to ask. At this point countries have mentioned are members of OPEC and Nigeria is a member of OPEC. So if it is only in Nigeria, you have comatose refineries. Basic intelligence and creativity will tell you that Nigeria should be able to ask other countries, how are you doing it? Because we are all members of the same Qatar. Look at the petroleum industry deal and some of us were saying that the way they were packaging it was not well. Tell me, has the petroleum industry act now stopped through oil theft? Has the petroleum industry act now promoted or increased the number of investors? I can tell you it's a lie because as I speak to you now, in the whole of Nigeria, we don't have up to 15 active drilling rigs. That is why we cannot drill and be able to meet up with our quota of production. So what has been all deployed? Okay, look at even what is happening about the proposed palliatives they are talking about. You went already and you brought money in advance and they are saying we will remove subsidy, then we will give you palliatives. That is equivalent to let me create a wound in your body and I will give you drugs. What if the wound refuse to heal and they become cancerous? Just like what they are trying to do now, all those guys that you think are using petrol because they cannot afford diseases is what they use for their generator, computer centers, hair, dressing and dress. If you do this and all those Nigerian citizens turn into criminality, what will you do as a government? You can see that all the proponents don't even know what they are talking. Most of the time they will give examples with GSM and say it was deregulated and they are responsive. It's a lie, it is called liberalization. So many of these proponents don't even know the difference between liberalization and deregulation, commercialization and privatization. If you liberalize, you allow other players to come in but you still control it. It was liberalization that took place in the telecom sector, not deregulation. In liberalization, government can still control how activities and prices are done. But in deregulation, you can charge any amount. Had it been the telecom sector is deregulated, some telephone service providers will be charging 200 naira per minute and be buying it to quality. And that's why deregulation for an emerging economy and a third world country like Nigeria is dangerous. Well, I just can't wrap my head around this. People on the one hand will say it is so good for our economy and people who we call experts also are the people who have been saying this that it's going to be good for the economy. And you are in the oil and gas sector and you're saying that it is not a good exercise. Now, how can we in trying to make our economy move forward because they have always tied this to making our economy better if they remove subsidy? How can we now make our economy move forward and still pay the subsidy knowing that we are becoming an impoverished country with the kind of borrowings we've been borrowing and all that. Thank you for that excellent question. Those people that are the proponent, you ask them and let them give us answers to basic and elementary questions. The only product that is remaining for us to remove subsidy on the price is PMSO petrol. So you ask them, since they are insisting, let them show us what we have benefited since we removed subsidy in the price of diesel. Because before we removed subsidy in the price of diesel, it was about 80 naira per litre. Now it is about 750 or 800 naira per litre. Let them show us the benefit. All the investors that they said they were going to come, where are the investors? Let them show us. They said we should remove subsidy in the price of aviation fuel. We have removed, apart from mass delay and we are only lucky that we have not experienced flight crashes. Let them show us what we have benefited in the aviation sector, apart from increasing airfare. They say we should remove subsidy in kerosene. It has been removed. All our people in the villages now, apart from suffering, let them show the benefit. If you want to remove subsidy in the price of PMS, then you should be able to explain the benefits that have been achieved in the other product. If you go to the strategic industrial sectors, now they have collapsed. Strategic domestic sectors have collapsed. Strategic industrial sectors have collapsed. They are not breaking even. That is why if you go to their income statement, you will notice that energy is consuming so much. So these people are lying. They don't even know how the concept works. And that's why I'm saying, as far as I'm concerned, it is the media that is the hope of the common man. Because unique records and those here of all those liars, you should ask them the questions. Let them show the benefits of the removal of subsidy in the price of aviation for diesel and kerosene. And let's ask even a simple question. What if Nigeria was not having crude oil at all? Because crude oil is even a natural gift. What could happen if we don't have crude oil at all? Does even a liter of petrol become 2,000 Naira or what? Okay, part of the problems in this field subsidy is that some people are not very honest about what they're doing. We've had cases of containers on the highway that was supposed to be fuel or anything. And they were empty. We've had cases where money was voted for products to be brought and the money disappeared and we didn't see it. Now, what is being done by the private sector in the oil and gas industry to make sure that if these yields within the industry need to be fought, that they can be fought successfully? Because for now, even the fuel that we take into this country, the consumption rate, we don't know the statistics, we don't know the data, how much we consume, how much is coming into the country. The figures they give us are outrageous figures and we don't know how they get that. What is that your level of collaboration with the government to plug some of the holes that will make the government say, okay, we need to remove subsidy? What are you doing? How are you collaborating with the government? Understand, you graduate out of subsidy. Subsidy exists and will continue to exist forever. If you go to, let's say, US or UK now, when you go as a foreigner and you go to their hospital, the cost of your treatment is the same as the cost of the treatment of a citizen? It is not. You see, the mistake people are doing, you are saying there is corruption, there is this and that. In other countries too, there is corruption now, but it is the government in those countries that will stamp it out. No private person or private initiative that can stop the corruption in your country for you. Why did you elect leaders? You elected leaders because you wanted to hand over the economic, political, and social destiny of your country for them to manage. So if they cannot control the corruption, then they are not what they call leaders. Are you saying there is no corruption in Saudi Arabia, in Iraq, Iran, Libya, Indonesia and the rest? But those you call your leaders will not allow you to thrive. All of them are members of OPEC. Why is it that in Nigeria, we are failing? But in other OPEC members of countries, they are not failing. Just look at natural gas. That would be a good place to end this discussion. That question you asked, why is it that in Nigeria we are failing and corruption being the main reason we've had government after government, yet we are here? How do we fix this corruption? It simply means some of the appointees are still remaining there with the knowledge of those who appointed them, which by extension has to do with government. Because economic sabotage economic marudas and economic vampires like that, they constitute, they constitute pegs on the wheel of progress of every country. That is what is happening. If you employ the right people, you will not lose a barrel of crude oil. You will not lose one standard to be fit of gas. Let me give you a practical example. Just imagine a situation where you are having all these tankers leaving Lagos and traveling to the farmost part of Nigeria. All those tankers are also destroying our roads. If you go to organized countries, all these petroleum products and other liquids are transported by rail. So the road is free. But when you carry all these big tankers and they come to Lagos to take petrol or diesel or kerosene, by the time they fly back on those roads again, they are destroying the roads. In organized countries, tankers are restricted to metropolitan centers. Rail or gas gets to depot in those days through rail lines or pipelines. Then tankers and the rest will go their peak and distribute within metropolitan centers. Thank you so much. Thank you so much comrades. Time will not allow us to push further on this conversation. Nigeria is 62 years old. Let's hope that the incoming government will be able to solve this corruption problem and our crude oil problem so that Nigeria can begin to enjoy the benefit of being a member of the OPEC. Just as other OPEC member nations are enjoying the benefit. Yeah. Well, that's our wrap up. Thank you so much for being a part of our show this morning. Thank you. Thank you and may God bless those that we are crowned to be our next set of leaders. Congratulations to them for their leadership in national interest. Thank you. Okay that was Balazaka. He's in the oil and gas industry and he's been telling us what it means to remove fuel subsidy and for him it is not good enough. We're going to take a break now and when we return we'll be looking at child abuse. Maybe you have been doing it but you don't know the definition. You don't know what it really is, what it constitutes. You may be breaking the law but when we come back we'll have an expert talk on it. Thanks. Stay with us.