 Tony, thank you for joining us on this afternoon, this warm, sunny, Hawaii afternoon. And thank you, I really appreciate spending your time to review our condo insider, our weekly show. So with me today, we're gonna talk about pipe replacements. We're gonna do this in two segments. And with me today, I have the very famous Sage Water team, two of the main people on the team. We have Jennifer Barra and we have Miguel Grentes. So I'm gonna turn it over to them. They came into the Hawaii marketplace like 15, around 15 years ago. So why don't you guys introduce yourselves and tell us how you came into the marketplace. So I'll get started. So just a two minute bite about Sage Water. Sage Water actually started back east on the mainland in 1989. And we were one of the first companies to start doing pipe replacement, occupied pipe replacement where owners and tenants can stay in their properties while we were doing work. And so we kind of created this niche for ourselves. And as far as coming to Hawaii, I will let Miguel get into that because he was actually here. I was hired just a few years ago. So he was, him and Joe Brawley came over and took our first job here. Thank you, Jen. Yes, so my name is Miguel Grentes, Vice President of Operations here in Hawaii. We arrived going on in 2009. We actually were intrigued because at the time there was a lawsuit going on for bad plumbing in the Hokuwa, four years old. They were having millions of dollars worth of leaks and everything. Case went out. We called Wendavid on the internet by John Griffith. John Griffith is one of our vice presidents for sales and marketing and business development. He called Wendavid, said, look, there's a possibility for us to go out to Hawaii and do a project in 2009. We should put some numbers together and send them our proposal. And we sent our proposal out. The story I was told from the building manager, Duane Krimine, was that they looked at it, laughed, said there's no way that this company can do this job for this amount of money and basically threw it away. And then Duane being how Duane is, took it out of the trash, said he's got a fiduciary duty to present it to the board. The board looked at it and said, look, we can't not talk to these guys. We gotta give them an opportunity. So, John Griffith and Joe Brawley flew out for their annual meeting and spoke in front of most of the homeowners at the time and explained what we do and why our pricing is the way that it is. It was very, very competitive for us. I'm not gonna talk about numbers, but we were a lot lower than what the local competition was at the time. So they were skeptical because we're a mainland company and we had never done any work here. So they were like, look, there's a lot of obstacles. Are you sure you're gonna be able to complete what you say and do what you're saying you're gonna be able to do? And we said, absolutely. As a matter of fact, give us one floor as a pilot program gives us an opportunity to come out and so that way we can actually see it as well and prove to you that we can do it. And we came out and we did one floor, took us probably about, I would say the average time when we did the pilot program was about almost seven days a unit. And then we got done with it, the board walked it and then we actually told them, hey, look, after actually doing this one floor we're gonna lower our price even more because we realized it's not even as difficult as we thought it was. And they were like, you're kidding me. Are you serious? And we said, yeah, absolutely. And they were like, okay. And then we went into contract negotiations and then we started the project in July. I got in and in July, we started the project in August of 2009 and we finished six and a half months later. And by the time we got done with the contract negotiations and we started the first unit the average time went from seven days per unit to three and a half days per unit. Total completion, nobody had to move out. We cut anywhere from 40 to 50 holes throughout the unit to put all the plumbing in. And we never left. They asked me if I wanted to stay. Joe was volunteering to fly back and forth. And I said, absolutely, I'll stay. I'll run the division here, not a problem. And I got promoted from a senior project manager to division manager. And then that was in 2009 and we've been running ever since. Did our first DWV job out here in 2012 with a 1350 Alamoana, which just so happens to be Duane's brothers building, Ron Cuminae, and that was 353 units, all DWV, seven layers of drywall. 8% of the units, the kitchens had to be torn out and put back together and everything. We finished that job in just over 14 months. And we've been doing them steady ever since. And just loving it, loving it here. I got lucky. I can't complain, which is funny because even when I do complain, everyone's like, you're in Hawaii, give me a break. What are you complaining about? I was like, well, all I have is t-shirts in my closet. I don't have any coats anymore. So I'm originally from New York. So it's new for me to not have to worry about pulling out the winter clothes and putting away the summer clothes to make room in the club. So it's pretty awesome. So it's a great community. We've done today, Jennifer, correctly, if I'm wrong, a little over 35 buildings since we opened up our office in 2009. Full buildings, I think total jobs because sometimes we do smaller repairs or stack work. We're in the mid-40s. Yeah, so it's definitely unique working and living here in Hawaii. It's surprising how much work there is. The lifestyle of all the people, and it's also a little frustrating waking up in the morning, driving in the work, and you're seeing all these people at the beach all the time. What am I doing wrong? Why can't I be that guy out on the beach right now? And like you said earlier, you smell all the barbecues and everything. You're like, I am starving. I just want some food and the food here is awesome. You know, it's the best fish I've ever had in the world. I've had here. Love sushi. I love all the different cultures here. And it's a really great place to work. We started out in 2009 with only three local employees at the time. Everyone else moved here for the length of the job. And now we're 100% local with 94 employees. Wow. So we've actually grown quite a lot. Some of our guys have been with us since the beginning, since 2009 and never left. Our master plumber, Ralph Nishimura, he's 82 years old, won't retire. We tried, he just won't. He just keeps on kicking, comes in every day, goes to every one of our jobs. It's funny, we're doing a job out in Punalulu right now. And Ralph went out there. He was like, this building looks familiar to me. And I'm like, why, Ralph? He was like, I'm just, I know why. I did the original plumbing in this building 15 years ago. And I was like, wow. So, you know, he brings a lot of experience and a lot to the table. Giovanni Camusso, our RME for general construction site because we are a G.C. He's been living on Allen since he was, I think he moved here when he was 19. So he's been here over 40 years, over 50 years. Been at G.C. for over 30 years here on the Allen. And they just helped us grow and we're a household name now which is a lot of it goes to, like Jen said, Giovanni helped us open up this office here and we just kind of took it and ran and here we are. Do you find any differences between the buildings here and the buildings that you've done on the main line? As far as the gut system. It's a huge difference. It's funny. So I traveled with this company. So we're a nationwide company and most of our crews travel a lot. We don't do that here anymore over here. Everyone's local. But I've noticed that the culture here, the people, they seem to be okay waiting an extra day sometime. Except for the snowbirds that come here because it's their third home. They're the ones that are a little bit more antsy. And they're like, hey, you know, I need to get it done yesterday and so on and so forth. But the buildings overall, there's a lot of concrete. I mean, it's just, it's crazy how much stuff people don't realize is behind the walls. And that's one of the things that I've noticed here, especially they maximize the living space by climbing everything behind the walls and such a small cavity, which then entails us tearing up more than we need to, just to get to the plumbing and say, actually replace the plumbing. So, and it's weird also because I never experienced it anywhere else. But, you know, there's a thing called Vogue here, which I didn't even know what it was. I remember it was right around September, October, they were telling me Kona wins and that's the Vogue. And I'm like, no, it's my allergies, but I don't know what. And yeah, it's totally different. The buildings that we do on the mainland, they're a little bit more tougher to do because the clientele is hurry up and get it done. Whereas here, the people will actually work with you a little bit. They seemed a little bit more laid back. I mean, it's the island life. So they're okay with the understanding and it's amazing the obstacles that we have here. One of the biggest ones is, you know, I can't just, if we run out of something, I can't just run to the store and go get it. You got to wait for the ship container to bring it into you, which takes for a lot of organization. It takes for a lot of lead time and logistically it's tough to do a workout here. But, you know, after 12 years, we've adapted overcame and we've got to work on it. We've adapted overcame and we've got storage sites and we've learned how to adapt and get it done. And so it's been great. And we're just looking to keep on going until they tell us to go home. Well, I'm sure you guys will be busy for a while since we have so many buildings that were built, you know, in the late 60s, 70s, especially they're like hitting that time period of pipe replacements. Plus two, the total ones that have to do with the power sprinklers and things of that nature. And speaking of that, so if the building's going through pipe replacement and they're opting to do sprinklers, are you guys doing those kind of things working together with the sprinkler installation people? Well, we're actually licensed to do the sprinkler. So even a sprinkler contractor would still have a need of a plumbing license, the plumbing rights. So it's just pipe, pipe is pipe. So we're actually involved in a lot of that. We haven't done one yet. We've done a couple of repairs here and there, but we haven't done a building yet. We are looking at branching out and giving these buildings that are doing their DWV, the potential and opportunities do their sprinklers at the same time. It's just, it's a little difficult because they're two different systems altogether and they don't necessarily run concurrently with each other. But we are looking at expanding and giving that a good try and getting it done with some of these buildings. But back to what you were saying about the buildings being old, it's actually, it's perpetual, right? So even the buildings that were built in the 80s and 90s are now starting to have problems. So we're starting to work on those buildings, right? Because plumbing is like, what people fail to realize is plumbing is a maintenance thing. It's just like a vehicle. Your vehicle's got all these cables and lines and everything. It's got to get replaced, it's got to get repaired. You got to maintain it. And if you don't, it starts to fail. So the buildings that were built in the 80s and 90s are not starting to have problems as well. And then it's just a matter of time before the building that we're building the 2000s are going to have to get done. And then 2010s, et cetera, et cetera. So we're not going anywhere for a long, long time. So when you replace the pipes, because I'm assuming that most of them that you're replacing are built with galvanized, right? So you're replacing them with copper or? It's actually cast iron. What we've noticed, the majority of the buildings here were built with cast iron on the waste side and then they had galvanized pipes on the bent sides. So, and it's really hard in a high rise building to put anything other than cast iron back because of the noise. And so that's the biggest thing that people don't seem to understand. They're like, well, go back with PVC. Well, if you live on a top floor, that's great. But if you live on the bottom floor, you're hearing everything. It's like Niagara Falls. You hear it and there's no amount of insulation that's going to protect you from that. And then the other obstacles is in a high rise building. And if you do install PVC or ABS, you got to install these special fire collars, right? Because there is no fire rating for PVC. So there's a lot more added work and labor to making sure that that piece of plastic you just put in the building doesn't become a wick and then end up just transferring a fire between all the floors. So there's your pros and cons on it. So what we've actually done a lot is talk buildings is to go over what's called the hybrid system. Whereas as long as it's not a plenum, meaning that it's a big shaft area that it's basically a big void in the building where the plumbing is, as long as it's not that kind of a situation, you can do a hybrid system where you put PVC on the vent side and then cast iron on the waste side. And what you do, there is some cost savings there. And then you get the benefit of the noise cancellation that the cast iron gives you with the longevity on the vent side, because people forget that the vent side of the pipe is crucial to letting that cast iron breathe, right? So when I say drain waste and vent just to educate a little bit more, sorry, going on, but so you got your waste pipe that takes all the stuff out of the building, then there's a vent pipe that's attached to it that allows it to breathe. So picture, you're drinking the soda through a straw, you put your finger over the top of straw, you pick up the straw and the soda's still inside the straw, well, then you lift your finger up and it just goes right down. Well, that's the way a plumbing system works. And the vent line actually helps that. So when you replace the waste side, it's almost necessary to replace the vent side at the same time. And we've noticed that it's better to use PVC in some of those cases if it's allowed. Oh, I see. And really just to go back to when you were talking about copper, we do find a lot of copper on the supply side, copper and galvanized on the supply. So when we replace those, it's really building choice. Copper is very expensive right now. A lot of buildings have been going towards some of the newer packs, which is hardened plastic that can carry chlorinated water in it. So they've been going more towards those systems for the supply side. And then the cast iron is usually on the drain waste and vent that we were talking about. We also do some hydronic and the fire sprinkler has become something that a lot of buildings are planning on doing in the next year or two. I see. Okay, so how would a building even start? And then with that, we're gonna probably be close to end of time. So where would the starting point be? And then in a second, we can get into the nitty-gritty details. We do a lot of education here. And what I always offer to buildings is, and I've done this at Murma and a bunch of other venues around town, we do like an education, how do you know it's time to re-pipe? What are the steps that you need to put in place to get to the place where a company like ours could bid or bid, right? So we'll actually walk a building through that. I do a lot of education meetings for boards and sometimes for the larger buildings, I actually been doing education meetings for their staff. So basically call our office, call me, we'll set something up for you and walk you through the process. And in our next get together on the next Congo Insider, we are gonna go through an abbreviated education on when do you know it's time to re-pipe your building? Oh yeah, because everybody's gonna have to be amending their reserves because previous a lot of buildings didn't have pipe replacement. So that's why it came kind of crashing down on a lot of people. And honestly, the reserve companies haven't been putting traditionally any money in for pipe replacement. They might have plumbing on the reserve, but they haven't been putting away adequate money for a pipe replacement. And since by statute here in Hawaii, you only have 20 years to save that money. We have a variety of ways that we can help a building ascertain. Even if it's, and I get calls from buildings that were built in the 80s and 90s, all the time now, we usually offer to do sampling for them so they can send out the samples to a metallurgist and then get a real tight beat on how soon they're going to need to do this so they can start saving funds for it. Oh, cool. I'm looking forward to our next one. I'm really excited to it because this is something that, you know, like you said, a lot of education so that people are aware, especially since we really didn't think anything about it. I mean, even my own house, it wasn't until we started replacing it and then one actually made a puka in the galvanized and started investing out in between the walls, you know, I'm like, oh my God. And then when you look inside the pipe, we're like, did you get water on that? It is kind of scary, especially so we saw. That's pretty intense. So, you know, really just to elaborate a little bit more, one of the things that we do besides the plumbing and like Jennifer was saying, our niche, we also do all the drywall. We also do all the painting and it's all in house employees. They're not subs. So when you do call, so it's saved water and we come out and we give you a price to replace your plumbing. That price typically includes if there's any asbestos of paper that needs to be done as well as any tile work, any carpentry, painting, framing, all that is included in our price. So that way you don't have to worry about calling multiple vendors to come out and give you pricing and give you numbers. So that's why we were able to get as much work as we got here because we offer a service that not a lot of companies can provide. I like a one-stop shop, which is cool. Then you don't have to wait to schedule in this guy, you have him finish it, then you got to come back, you know. So when the homeowner's like, you know, hey, it's eight o'clock, where's the tile guy? Yeah, he's downstairs finishing his coffee, he'll be up in a minute, he works for me. It's not, you know, you don't have to worry about that. And it's one of the things that has made it very beneficial for us because then on top of being able to run all of these trades in-house, we're also able to manage them and give you the quality that you deserve and make sure that you are getting the best bang for your buck. So that way, if you do have an issue, you just call one person up. It's not calling 15 different contractors and getting the run around and saying, oh, well I called John up, but he told me to call Paul and Paul's not answering. So, you know, it's very unique for us and it's what we do to help the community out as well. So it's a project management in itself. For example, and we do have project managers. We didn't in the beginning, when we started out back in 1989, we didn't even know what project manager was on the job, what he was necessary for. And then we've grown and we've learned to the point where now all of our jobs have dedicated project managers and they don't wear two belts. All they do is manage the guys and manage the expectations of the homeowners and make sure they're communicating one of the homeowners. The plumbing and the construction work, that's the easy part. The hardest part of our job is always been making sure that the properties are informed, making sure that they have a clear understanding and a realistic expectation of what's to come and how it's going to affect them on a day-to-day basis. You know, water shutdowns, what do you mean I can't use the toilet from eight to five? You know, stuff like that. Well, there's your project manager and here we are. So it's part of what we do and what makes us so good at our jobs and it's part of the services that we give to everyone in the community as well. Okay, cool. So I think we're out of time. So I'm looking forward to our next one which will be in September 15th. Yes. We're at part two and I'm really looking forward to it. So Miguel and Jennifer, thank you so much for spending your afternoon with me and explaining to us what Sagewater does. It was a great story how you guys came in. I really love it. I really do. Okay, thank you and we'll see you back in a couple of weeks. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.