 Hi folks, I'm Mike and I hope you're well and welcome to another edition of creative studio live Well, we debate everything music and music production and we'd love you to join in in the chat as well So if you hear say hi, let us know where you are and we will get to you later But as ever I am adjoined by my steam co-host Pete Johns from studio live today. Hi Pete What's been happening in your world this week? Mate it's been a busy week. We've been talking amp sims We've been talking loudness wars YouTube channels including your own and I've been showing off my live streaming rig Which is a budget live streaming rig, but yeah, there's been lots of videos happening lots of fun happening over here How about creative source? I see some great videos coming out from your side of the world What are you doing? I think you flatter me a little bit. I made a video this week about organizing your mix It's not the most tantalizing subject But you really should urge people to have a look especially if you're starting out with your recording because organizing your mix saves you Hits of time, but I'm with this show I'm really really excited about this show tonight because we've got a bit of a different format for those of you Haven't been here before normally myself and Pete do a little debate on whatever topic we take aside each five points each But I don't have to debate tonight I don't have to debate at all because we have a special guest and that special guest goes by the name of Ricky T Brown from Manava art am I saying it right Manava artist. Hi Ricky. How are you? I'm good. Thank you very much buddy. I must say in the history of this show If I might say you are probably the best-looking guest we've had so far Ha ha ha ha ha listen if I could flush I would Ricky I know you from a Facebook group I was just saying my favorite Facebook group. I've just upset loads loads of people but Home recording studio is on it's it's it's a it's a newest sort of group But it's growing very quickly lovely place But obviously the you had a life before home recording studio zone So I know about Minerva artist. Tell us all about that and whether I'm pronouncing it properly Minerva as in the Greek goddess Oh, this is very high brow already For music so I thought it was quite apt for my activities Minerva artist has been well, I first formed it in 2013 It was also a label at that time. Yeah, I gave that a go and I'm not doing it again Artists are a pain in the butt So I wanted to focus more on I Guess when you're talking about Media composition that kind of thing I Only realized on me really so I thought yeah, I fancy some of that I've dabbled with it in the past, but I really wanted to focus on Some creative time in that genre beautiful We should talk about we should get stuck into that later now I'm high to the folks are saying hi in the chat I see we've got fiddling with my whistle the new follow of mine and Vache from recording studio nine. Hi guys. Nice to see you here I think we're gonna get stuck into this debate and we will chat with rookie a little bit later about his musical Doings is that word doings in this but we're gonna get stuck into this debate now The debate this week is about whether music is best kept simple or whether it's better to have more interesting complex Music now normally we flip a coin, but it's guest choice this week So Ricky, perhaps you could tell us which side of the debate you're gonna be arguing on Well, I'll be arguing for keeping it simple Okay, I like that now Pete you're in the complex side of things You know so I wish you luck with that one I'll be scoring this week, of course and if someone could just keep track of the scores because I'll I'll shout out the scores You keep track and so I'm fiddling with my whistle. You keep track of the scores So and and I'm gonna get this debate underway and I think I'm gonna kick it off with Pete Just a word of warning to Ricky though, you know, I know you're over there in the UK and Pete is Australian So just the Australians are known for a bit of cheating. I won't let that fly here. Okay, so I Think you're far enough away to avoid any ball tampering, but you never know with these Aussies, so Just watch out for that Ricky Pete even I'll let you kick off and give us your first argument Well, I'm really glad that I've been given the the complex side the guy who records his songs on his iPhone in GarageBand gets Why you should be complex in your music? So let's get into it. Let's start it So I totally cheated I talked to my family this evening and I said hey, I've got to do this debate So I give you some ideas and and my daughter actually came out with something amazing So this is why you have to vote for me because this is a nine year old's opinion Why does it need to be chill? Why do you need to do complex music? And she said people need to challenge themselves dad if you played the same piece and if you played simple music for your whole life You're never gonna challenge yourself And this is coming from someone who's just learning piano and starting to actually challenge herself as well So I thought that was kind of good and I'm gonna start off with that is that When you're starting out if you're playing simple stuff You're learning simple things as you evolve and develop if you continue to play simple things Yeah, are you really putting yourself to the test? Are you living up to your possible potential? By keeping it simple. So Yeah, like I said, I'm starting with the child go with the sympathy vote early here to my goodness He's playing dirty already Ricky I've got to give him a score here and what's your daughter's name Pete if you don't mind just the first Jasmine Jasmine hi Jasmine. Thanks for your input. So all right. So I'm gonna give you a 1560 points And so, you know, you're off to a pretty good start Ricky's off to a good start he used the child You know there so dirty right from the get-go. So Ricky Tell us about why we should keep music simple. Well, okay, there's some thought no Thank you put an argument forward it should be from a punters point of view so I'd say other than musicians most people can only process music on a generalized level so That's why I guess it's the songs with a simpler construction they seem to be the ones that sell the most Oh, okay Ricky you're a guest So it's a good first point if you could have at least said that you know your child Given given your given that you're a guest I'm gonna give you exactly the same points one thousand five hundred and sixty points We're on a draw here So So so Pete, you know, you given that you've you've given you your best shot on your first one with your kids idea I'm hoping you can improve on as an actual adult here. You know, so go for it, right? Oh Right. Yeah, I'm gonna struggle because I did yeah again This is where if you're new to the show where we are arguing points of sides And you'll find out at the end what we actually think but I'll probably give it away in my opening an intro anyway So, yeah, let's continue on with the whole challenging yourself mindset And the other thing so my daughter was I'm gonna use my daughter again I actually asked the seven-year-old and she just looked at me Blakely and said dad your videos are boring. I don't care What I did I went back to the nine-year-old and she said she's learning about this in school She's like dad. Well, what it does is it helps enhance your growth mindset And I said the fact that you know the words of growth mindset I don't even know what that means so she had to explain it to me so she sat me down and said well What it does is it helps you improve and grow and learn so said if you're not learning that you're not developing and then you're not Yes, I use the same exact point twice. I just word of it differently, but that's what you do in debating Yeah, you say the same thing multiple times with slightly different words and you hope to do But I just wanted to say the words growth mindset and sound really intelligent So if you want to Complex music is the way to do it. I just want to remind you Pete We actually do have viewers here and they need to be kept interested That was a really really good point made by your daughter again, so I'm giving there's some adjustments here I'm giving 60 points for the point itself, but minus 1,500 points because you've used your daughter twice I couldn't let you do that So I don't know what the math is here filling with my whistle should be keeping track. I'm hoping Otherwise it looks like Pete somewhere near zero You know Ricky, please please save us here. Save us. He's got nothing Mention the beat My second point would be Well, think about it. We've all been there There's that tune that gets into your head You may have only heard eight bars of it, but after that you'll be hearing it in your head for the whole day and the main reason for that is Because the melody of that song is really simple and then of course when you've got tracks with simple beats ribbons They tend to be the ones that people lock on to In more numbers, you know statistically speaking, you know, if you were going to look at the the top 40 and What all those tracks have in common? It's that horrible element of staying in your head all day once you've heard it once All right People are simple It's a bit like football songs. You know like the crowd chants Um, what's that? There's a really rubbish football team. What are they called Liverpool? I Happen to browse your profile today Rick and so I'm talking to you congratulations on your win over Barcelona was it? What was there what's their biggest song Liverpool what are they what are they seeing the crowd? I Mo Salah Mo Salah Mo Salah Running down the wing Okay, I know that one before I must admit I thought it was you'll never walk alone or something like that Well, that's the traditional one, but that's the one defense chart during the match It'd be the most Salasol American friends they're talking about soccer. Oh, sorry We've gone off to we've gone off to soccer things can only get worse if we start talking about quicker, I suppose Good point there. I like it Ricky things that are simple. Just they like what they call them brain worms They get in your head and they just won't leave so that's 2569 points there for Ricky on that one 5560 Record on a single question. I'm sure that's It is now Pete, please. I'm begging you, please nothing from your daughters. Okay for your third point, please All right, so let's bring it home So I'm glad you talked about the simple songs and yes whilst we'd all like to hear Duff punk go around the world around the world Around the world over and over again There's only so much to that that we can take what we want is something that's more Provoking something that has some subtleties some intricacies it can keep a listener engaged So it often helps because you can listen to a banger You can listen to an anthem you can listen to a song that's got three chords And when you hear it the second time and the third time Yeah, apart from it being in your head and getting really annoyed You're not really gonna go back to it like yeah, how many times do you go back to that anthem from? I don't even know when from 1993 you like I had that song but I know that song I don't need to hear it ever again the more thought-provoking song are those that actually have that subtle seeds They've got that depth that can keep you engaged so that when you go back you listen the second time Like ooh, I didn't hear that tambourine on the second verse. That's what complexity adds It's not just about your CFG. It's about your a sharp minor diminished seventh. So there's my third point Okay, good third point I'll actually give you a 500 points for that because it was actually a decent point wasn't made by a minor It was good. It was good. Um, we've got some somebody mentioning I'm gonna take a little bit of a side here Ricky Somebody's mentioned we will rock you. I was thinking about this myself on this topic today because Queen You know, they were obviously very accomplished musicians, you know all of them But didn't feel the need to do that all the time Um, I think with someone's mentioned we will rock you in the chat on the composer good a long the composer You know Mention that song. I was thinking of another one bites the dust Boom boom boom boom boom, but you're a bass player. Are you Ricky? I'll see you holding your bass in some of your pictures Yeah, it's not a difficult bass line to play is it it's a very easy base Maybe um sheet good times bass line, isn't it exactly right? Yeah, exactly. So, you know keep it simple I I think there's some wonderful examples in the chat there. Although, um, I suppose from a musician's point of view It's nice to be stimulated once in a while. Not the line in the debate or anything It's Ricky's turn point number three. I think Ricky's we're on to now Point number three. Yeah, let me start off by answering um responding to the last um Yeah, I think from a complexity and keeping an interesting point of view I think that's really a musicians perspective rather than a hunters perspective Because see we we tend to justify what we do Um By quite a lot of the time we actually ignore what it is that switches on the punters you see So I would counter what you said with that um My third point Is if you want to get people to dance Man, you've got to keep it simple Now if you think about anything that people will dance to It usually resolves to um foreign the floor and you can't get much simpler than that But it works every time It's true, but you know, I'm gonna say that there's not a lot of people want to see me dance. So, you know I mean, I guess that's why I hear a lot of complex music when I'm out and about Um, that's a good point. I like it. Um, ricky. I'm gonna award you a solid 10 000 points on that one really really nice. I like it. I've no idea what the scores are But uh, I'm behind it. I think 10 000 seems fair for the dancing four on the floor business and Ricky mentioned punters there He said it's about the punters now for american People I don't think they use the word punters. That means the the customers the listeners Um, and it brought me I was thinking about this today ricky Is it is it a kick drum or a bass drum? Um, I tend to say bass drum. Yeah, it's a bass drum, isn't it? Is it is a is it a plectrum plectrum or a pick plectrum Plectrum, right there you go another 15 000 bonus points for ricky there For getting the pronunciation correct for musical terms rick. Um, please back to you I feel I feel I'm uh losing badly when you're even calling me by your I'm in trouble as I hit my microphone for the seventh time this train. Um, so Yeah, I'm looking at the rest of my points here going that like ricky's owning me here because I'm like, yes, my last two points are the pretentious wanky Well, because let's be honest most people look like complex music No, wank no wanky wanky on my show, okay? You've been talking about it all night. Um, so what what can you do so Who here likes the the rock band muse like one of the best rock bands going around in my view anyone with me? Yep. Yeah, I'll go you on that. Yeah, yeah ricky fan of muse like the like the band The moves muse the band fan. Yeah, I have not heard their music yet Gotta get into muse muse are outstanding and they are an epic rock band. So for those who are fans of muse What they bring to that sound you listen to it and on the surface you think guitars Screaming vocals lots of lots of rock and sounds But it's what they put underneath that it's what they fill out the mix with so it's the layers of the synth sounds Who doesn't like synths? I see a lot of outboard gear in your background there ricky You clearly like to play with some dials and knobs and again mike stop. Stop. Don't don't go there dial the knobs on his gear his equipment You know the way I think So yeah, so how cool is a great rock song Well, it can only be made better by layering it and let's let's look at you've talked about queen You've talked about Beatles. You've talked about these simple bands But think about some of the things that they did as a revolutionary and what you would consider complex things They did with cutting tape with splitting tape with reversing with doing all the things They were on four tracks and they still managed to create these masterpieces of ultimate complexity That's still hold up today as some of the best music going around So if you want to fill out your mix if you want to add some some flavor and some spice Surely a bit of complexity is going to help your sound Okay, mr. Johns. You're a bit sneaky there and I'll tell you what I'm gonna give you some points here Just for the cleverness of that because you managed to turn four track recording into an argument for complexity, which was Wonderful and bizarre all at the same time. So I'm going to give you a good solid Five and a half thousand points for that Nice nice. Well good point. Well made now Yeah, he did he did now Ricky. He did mention your knobs there and I've I've enjoyed looking at your knobs this evening But is that your sort of home studio or do you have a studio outside your home? Is you what's the deal there? You've got a lot of my home It's well the overhead through a lot lower Um Plus the way that I've set it up. So I've recently refurbished it and it's I've got it just right for me so I don't have to make any considerations for Having loads of people in here because the kind of music I'm working on it's really about me. So Having the knobs and sliders all over the place. Yeah, I like it I've seen a few photos of your studio in the past on the group and When I'm looking at studios, I always look at what's the centerpiece, you know Is there a mixing desk in the center or is it a keyboard in the center and you to for me for a memory Your prioritizing the keyboard. Is it more about composition for you and writing or or is what the deal is I mean, so to be honest, I mean if I had the choice, um, I would definitely have a big board big mixer in my studio, but Given that I am I've got limited space. Um, I suppose it was a case of prioritizing I'm primarily a keyboard player as you can see the few came And me if the the genre that I'm working in rely It's a lot of Inputting from a keyboard. So it made sense to orient it that way But in previous setups, I mean, yeah, I've had big boards in here, but they weren't much room for anything else Very cool Now I should mention that I've put some links in the description to some of ricky's Tracks is to produce tracks. So I encourage you to go along to soundcloud and have a listen to those I enjoyed listening to them yesterday ricky good stuff really nice production on them. So, um, I enjoy that immensely So check those out and do check out The facebook group that I've mentioned a couple of times before home recording studio zone which ricky is an admin of but He feel I don't upset anyone over there, but he feels like kind of the main man at times He spends a lot of time there and he's always really really helpful in there Um to people who've got newbie questions and all that kind of thing So if you're a new and you're new to all this stuff definitely get in there and I find the community in there There's a really nice community You know some of the communities They don't treat nubes so well, but that one's really really good And I enjoy it. They even picked john's joined fairly recently And made Yeah, I was pretty impressed because uh, you've mentioned they'll remain nameless You've mentioned one or two ricky But there's some groups and there's some forums and there's some places where you go in there and you say Hey, I'm you and I have a question that you know, maybe been asked once before ever and someone's like Oh, you didn't check the archives from 2014 when someone clearly asked exactly the same questions So go away. Um, and that's a that's a very censored version of that but no home home recording studio zone I've went in there. I asked a couple of questions. I shared some things about my four track funnily enough Um, and yeah, I just got some some great people with some great suggestions and amazing information And yeah, someone gave me resources for parts for my yamaha four track, which I could really like No one has ever found and he's like, yeah, just go here. Look check it out He's here's the belt you need and sends me a link. So yes, amazing group of people and uh, yeah When you have a big group that's like about 14,000 or something there ricky um, yeah To have that many people and to have a relatively troll-free zone never completely troll-free in in all these groups But yeah, clearly a very strong admin and mod team there that are keeping things clean and uh, yeah Really useful and great information. So good job Now that brings it towards This the way that you know when we set out with um, um hrsz um One of the first things that we wanted to achieve was to um offer something a little bit different because as you said um like that the um You know, I won't mention their names But some of these groups can be a really hostile environment for people especially Those that are new to the whole thing and you know, I've been in in the music game for a long time and I felt that was a great opportunity to actually Share knowledge and show people how to do things the right way Um, but you know the right way there isn't just one right way. There's lots of different ones Um, as far as they're the members ago, they're they're great bunch on there. I mean, uh, some time I think would be to use the uh, banos and gauntlet But not very often Love it Now ricky, we've got only a little bit of time left and you've still got your fifth Point to make so I'm I'm expecting you've left your your best point to last of course as Traditions so uh go for us hit us with number five Well, um, I was given the brief um on on this debate and uh I wanted to get some source data and uh I read an article where um some analysis being done on max martin. Have you heard of him? Songwriter. Oh, okay. Well, um, well, he's um had 22 number ones with um, britney spears katie perry taylor swift and um, what they they developed an algorithm that can actually work out Why? those songs were as successful as they were and um, it was basically five different categories The first one is um a short and unique um miracle intro Simple Most of the um the songs hitting the chorus within 30 seconds um the average bpm 114 bpm um linguistically using simple lyrics um tended to add to the popularity of Whatever song um, they were employed on and um Adding new sounds to the arrangement um Gradually limiting the total amount as to not overload the listener with too many things to listen to so By and you know adds to to to to summarize um, basically what they're saying is that songwriter who's must be Loaded Has found a simple formula On which he can have commercial success and as a musician If you um find that perfect formula, I think yeah, it's it's It's a trade-off really, isn't it? I mean there's artistic fulfillment and then there's Commercial success, which do you go for? But keeping it simple is the key I that's a there's a fantastic final point Ricky And I thank you so much for being bringing a level of intellect to the show actually by actually doing some research Rather than just asking some minors that happen to be kicking around and want to watch what I say in the debate You've actually taken some time you know I feel that you've put some effort into this show tonight, you know and For your final point. I think I'm going to give have to give you um 169 thousand points for that one So um, I don't know what the final tally was but obviously We do have a winner and it is of course ricky t brown our special guests tonight now You know what you've done mic. You've actually got my last point. So yeah, I do this. Yeah You you started first didn't you? I did didn't I but uh, yeah, I think How do we know is that? I had five points and I said forever. You know what? I'm not gonna even make my last point But let me say this one thing The the song that that ricky was describing there hit me baby one more time by britney spears I'm just gonna mic drop and On that part of point Now Now I should explain to anyone watching of course, this is a slightly artificial debate and um, we've asked the guys to to take sides um, I'm guessing The being men of great intellect And um of of good opinion that youth see shades of gray in this matter So I'm going to go over to uh, pete first pete. What's your real opinion? my real opinion is uh My my philosophy on music these days is you do you uh horses for courses insert cliche here But it is the yes variety is indeed the spice of life I've had I've written songs that are four chords and four tracks and I've written songs that are 32 tracks and highly complex and the music I love can be the anthems and the the Shongs that have the simple structures. I do love a good hook. I do love a good chorus. I also love Yeah, I do love a classical masterpiece that's got the whole orchestra doing its thing So yes, it can be whatever you want it to be don't limit yourself But uh, yeah be creative and again, I think ricky's great points here where that Music is about you and what you want to do But it's also about the people you're sharing it with because art is not art until you share it with someone else There you go Good good point there if they had been in the actual I would have rewarded you like half a million points for that, but it wasn't in the contest But ricky, um, what say you on this um outside of the I would refute almost all of it The reason why I say that is because when I first got into music and then you know, you've got the whole You know fairy tale the dream Whoa get signed up Loads of hits loads of money but Over time, um, I've learned that. Well, no, that's that's not the reason why I'm doing it. I'm doing it, um for personal Artistic fulfillment if you like and um I'm not challenged by Simple forms of music and um My man for for a start. I mean I play jazz so You know, I'll be barking up the wrong tree if I was doing that and expecting to uh to to um, you know be financially sound because of it um But personally, you know, I'm a bit of a um genre hopper I hope the the tracks that I sent you Mike Um, they're a mixture of things there. So I just wanted to um Show you that well, that's that's what I'm about musically is that um, You know music is a sweet shop You know those old-style sweet shops that have all the jars And you go in and take any flavor you want and that's and that's how I see it, you know So I'm not not to be limited to one thing um And by doing that that's improved me as um a musician uh, so Complex is good. It makes you better Good point good point. I I I'm gonna just um Gonna give a little bit of my opinion. I agree with both you, you know, you've both stated really really well I do think ultimately The um music is an emotional experience however, um I kind of feel that if you learn your trade Better and better Um, and that can be with more complexity at times That it gives you a greater toolbox with which to affect people's emotions with, you know, so um Uh, I think there's definitely room for complexity. My only thing is is I'm not I'm gonna upset a few people By mentioning shredders doesn't do anything for me shredding on the guitar just leaves me feeling Nothing at all now. It may do something for some other people But I can't help but feel that it's a bit of an inter or not an intellectual But just a kind of this almost like a statistical exercise of how we know Um, I will say one thing I had an interesting experience. I went to see uh, tommy Emmanuel two or three weeks ago I'm not sure if you're aware of tommy Emmanuel Ricky australian gets to be one of the best guitarists in the world very very Uh talented and complex guitar player doesn't amazing stuff. Anyway at the show He brought out hank marvin as a special guest on the show and I was like bloody hell it's hank marvin Um, and I thought that hank marvin. I thought he's so famous, isn't he for like a patchy? How's it going? I've been not seeing it. We'll get a copyright strike But uh, you know how I'll put I've put it in your heads guys and um He was very very famous for very very simple melodies that almost any of us could play on the guitar now When he came out and played with tommy Emmanuel, I was blown away by hank marvin and what he could do with a guitar It was phenomenal But I have to say never would have got famous for what he did during that show in a million years I enjoyed it tremendously and you know Like the guys got much much more credibility for me than he had previously But you know good on him for creating some simple music as well that people can digest Easily and just enjoy and that's what I've got to say on that matter. I've really enjoyed this show ricky You're awesome Enjoyed having you on tremendously and and I'm very very sure that uh, we will want to have you back again at some time You're you're a good contributor. It's nice as I say to have someone with intellect on the show Pete You gave it your best I'm a bit concerned that ricky has set the bar high now that we have to now actually do research mike And i'm saying this to you as well as we have to get quotes and sources like he's got people Yeah, it's like high school all over again Yeah, we're gonna have to step it up a notch because you and I are just like We just think a few things and we go with our guts. So uh, yes. Thank you ricky It's been amazing having you on the show here and uh, yes get over to home studio recording zone and check out ricky's music All that's in the description and all that fun stuff Absolutely now next week's show next week's show will be hosted on pete's channel so um for the people looking from my channel and encourage you to look in the description and subscribe to Pete's channel so that you'll get notifications about our debate next week It will we haven't decided on the topic, but i'm sure it will be something controversial and Something to make the old brain work a little bit, pete And i think you should go to home home recording studio zone and throw it out there mike I think we should we should get some feedback from the What should we be talking about? Good one. Good one. I like your angle again. Thank you very much ricky. We will be closing off now Thanks everyone in the comments. I've enjoyed watching your comments um, and if anyone's watching on the Re-broadcast then please do leave comments down below and we'll try and get to you there and answer any questions You've got but thanks very much guys. Say goodbye and we will be out See you folks. Take care Take care